If you're going to add more raids, fix elitism first

[Eltiana.9420]

> @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said:

 

> sorry not joining a training raid, not going to lower myself to that ( i tried 1-2 of them and it was ridiculous so no more), i just assume not do the raids even though im grossly over competent and qualified to do them. Anet needs to do something to facilitate grouping and reduce player scrutinization, this feels like trying to do raid content in 2001 where there are no options for grouping or difficulty alternatives, there is a reason all modern mmos have abandoned this outdated model of raiding except for gw2 it seems.

 

It's called joining a guild. Or start your own. You can't reduce player scrutinization. That will always exist. It's called human nature. Could Anet put in more systems, make different difficulty alternatives, etc? Yeah, sure. But the fact that many of you think that will solve the problem live in optimistic bubbles that really need to be popped. Elitists aren't going to stop being elitists just because you throw some roadblocks in their way. People don't change like that. What are you all expecting these people are going to do if systems get changed? They're suddenly going to be more inclusive? And sure you could make it to a point as to where Raiding becomes content those types of people aren't interested in anymore and drive them out of the community. And what are you left with? All the people who are still here. That you could already be making groups with now. And the end result is either content that everyone blazes through and then proceeds to complain that they're bored and need more content, and Raids aren't challenging/good/whatever enough, and/or people get to a point where they themselves begin to become more elitist, due to lack of patience in dealing with people who aren't at their level.

[Jumpin Lumpix.6108]

> @Eltiana.9420 said:

> > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said:

>

> > sorry not joining a training raid, not going to lower myself to that ( i tried 1-2 of them and it was ridiculous so no more), i just assume not do the raids even though im grossly over competent and qualified to do them. Anet needs to do something to facilitate grouping and reduce player scrutinization, this feels like trying to do raid content in 2001 where there are no options for grouping or difficulty alternatives, there is a reason all modern mmos have abandoned this outdated model of raiding except for gw2 it seems.

>

> It's called joining a guild. Or start your own. You can't reduce player scrutinization. That will always exist. It's called human nature. Could Anet put in more systems, make different difficulty alternatives, etc? Yeah, sure. But the fact that many of you think that will solve the problem live in optimistic bubbles that really need to be popped. Elitists aren't going to stop being elitists just because you throw some roadblocks in their way. People don't change like that. What are you all expecting these people are going to do if systems get changed? They're suddenly going to be more inclusive? And sure you could make it to a point as to where Raiding becomes content those types of people aren't interested in anymore and drive them out of the community. And what are you left with? All the people who are still here. That you could already be making groups with now. And the end result is either content that everyone blazes through and then proceeds to complain that they're bored and need more content, and Raids aren't challenging/good/whatever enough, and/or people get to a point where they themselves begin to become more elitist, due to lack of patience in dealing with people who aren't at their level.

 

You can definitely reduce player scrutinizaton, you just cant eliminate it. Im not trying to eliminate it. You even said anet can put more systems into place that would alter difficulty or facilitate grouping... That's all im asking. That would reduce scrutinization... I guarantee people will still play the content if they added more options/alternatives to raiding, why wouldnt they? The rewards and content is still there, and none of my suggestion except for removing the boss timer would affect raid difficulty in and of itself.

[Seteruss.4058]

Story mode/hard mode...as everywhere.

Problem solved

 

[TwilightSoul.9048]

Yeah I'm sure raids are awesome but as it is right now I will never ever play them, most toxic community I've ever encountered, and they're infecting fractals as well now that we have more "end game" cm's... Absolutely no fun to have a group that is doing well until someone decides the group is "not optimal" and starts flaming everyone else because they're not playing the most "ideal" build. As long as I'm not writing "Speedrun" in my LFG I don't want anyone to complain about other players in my group! And if you're not happy with the group as it is then by all mean LEAVE but don't blame anyone other than yourself. To me it seems that the majority of raiders isn't trying to do raids but rather to do speedruns, which in my opinion should not be what a type of content is beeing balanced for. If anet wants raids to be specificly for elitists then please release a second version of every single raid in the game that is exactly the same but is titled "HARDCORE SPEEDRUN MASTER RAID" and has a ranking for all those super nice and smart people so that everyone else can enjoy regular relaxed and fun raiding and actually enjoy the amount of effort that went into the story telling within the raids. Assuming of course that all the elitist will only do the "HARDCORE SPEEDRUN MASTER RAIDS" ;)

 

I'm looking forward to raiding as soon as I'm not getting insta kicked from groups for running FA Scepter/Warhorn Tempest. Which easily does enough damage for a NORMAL Raid run!

[Genesis.5169]

> @Seteruss.4058 said:

> Story mode/hard mode...as everywhere.

> Problem solved

>

 

ARE YOU INSANE?

This god damn community is crying about just regular raids and you wanna add a hard mode. This is the kinda place thats gonna say there should be an easier version of hard mode so everyone can experience hard mode, and we will say yeah that's story mode, Then they will say "it's not the same your just being and elitist". If they don't get it, they are going to advocate for its removal.

 

Edit: If its like the old personal story people will complain, and if its not and its a solo version of the raid people will complain again, dividing difficulty will not stop whining from the casuals especially in game where they are a very vocal majority.

[maddoctor.2738]

> @Seteruss.4058 said:

> Story mode/hard mode...as everywhere.

> Problem solved

>

 

As you will figure out if you read the thread that wouldn't help with the "issue" at hand.

[SkyShroud.2865]

Raid itself has no progression. Newbies in general have a hard time entering it from the get go.

 

Anet nerfed dugeons and shift the focus to raid without understanding that dungeons are frequent by newbies while empowered by the veterans and through it, newbies get to learn the ways how group kill pve mobs easily. Then fotm is boosted to 100 due to so-called hardcore players' demand, again, without realizing that newbies too frequent it because there were veterans guiding at the lower levels when it was 50 cap.. Finally, anet allowed cross chats, more freedoms for guild creation and naturally that freedom easily lead to creation of veteran focus guilds because they want to get it done asap, in other words, excluded the newbie. Also, not to forget the massive pve contents we have every expansions and living stories releases, veterans are busy doing those. The gap between newbies and veterans grew larger and will continue to grow larger, newbies for most part nowadays are on their own for many things without any single guidance.

 

In other words, the gw2 of the past was designed in a way that make even the selfish players and elitists benefit the people around them. Perhaps it happened not because it was intentional but it certainly did happened. Anet since has expanded the game wider and taller, likewise the gap too widened. You can't turn back the hand of the time. The game community now is moving to reflect reality, the society, the human nature.

[Umut.5471]

They can't fix elitism maybe, but they can fix damage output of full DPS builds. For example balance the damage output of berserker and viper between all classes.

Raid classes are too fixed, there's hardly any class-spec diversity.

Just because one does 2k more dmg on a virtual benchmark people force you to use that class and build. Because it's meta. If I was Arenanet I would forbid the use

of all DPS addons. It makes the meta elitism even worse.

[zealex.9410]

If you are going to complain every 9 months when they decide to add a new one just stop. Elitism is at normal lvls the saltiness is whats off the charts

[Palador.2170]

Forgive me for not reading the whole thread, but... yeah.

 

Allow me to say first that I think adding raids was a bad idea. For a casual game, raids require too much commitment and focus to mesh well with the rest of the game. I'm not going to argue it, I just want to be honest and up front about my overall view before I move on.

 

Anyway, I don't think raids will be a problem for us much longer. With either this raid or the next one, I expect that we'll start to see the end of raids looming in the distance. Why? Rewards, that's why. Raiders expect big rewards for their effort, and a game like GW2 is rather limited in just how good those rewards can be. The big carrot to chase so far has been legendary armor, but that's out now and a lot of the more dedicated raiders have it. If they don't have it, they can finish it off with the raids we already have. But what rewards can they offer with the newer raids? ANet has already said they'll make no more legendary armor skins, so that's out. And they can't provide legendary weapons, considering they've still not finished the ones to be released as part of HoT yet. Legendary trinkets? Well, the ascended ones are so easy to get, the idea is almost a joke.

 

I'm sure they'll come up with a few flashy little things, but they'll be lost in the sea of similarly flashy things already in the game. Raid rewards will no longer be anything special, which will make a lot of raiders upset. With no big goal to work towards, a lot of raiders won't go through the effort of raiding. Soon, it simply won't be worth the developer investment to make any more raids, and they'll be abandoned just like dungeons were.

[Seera.5916]

> @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said:

> > @Shirlias.8104 said:

> > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said:

> > > > @Shirlias.8104 said:

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said:

> > > > > Sorry you don't get in rank 7 in NA guild in wow if ur trash, u also don't get 2X legend in spvp if ur trash, and yet raiders are still skeptical about skill with feats I can easily prove but claim on some technicality that I might not be considered good in some universe, somewhere, this is exactly my point and the point of this thread.

> > > >

> > > > Well, wow PvE is mostly tryhard ( a matter or time mostly, though ofc like every other game you have to be efficient with your class ) since the top guilds do many attempts.

> > > >

> > > > GW2 legend is more like a joke due to the playerbase pool ( play the right class and spam games. Also previously with duoq was even easier ).

> > > > Don't even mention the stronghold season.

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > I have Undefeated/Eternal title from Vale.. If i was carried I would of been one shotted and not gotten the title, but I didnt die and have the title, Or does that skill not translate either because its not ALL the raids in gw2.. Nothing convinces you guys... This is why people are complaining and need the raids to change, if someone who is skilled like me can have such a hard time, imagine how others who aren't as skill must fair

> >

> > You got a title, and 1 achievement.

> > So?

> > Guess how many ppl managed to have that one?

> >

> > I don't get your point at all.

> > I mean... no, really i don't know.

> >

> > However, I was refering to what you said about wow and legend spvp, and explain ed how it works ( you can check wow now and see for every boss how many try the guild needed, and for spvp...Let us forget about that part ).

>

> see no convincing you guys, its impossible - can't get into a raid because I must be lying, can't get into a raid because im arrogant, can't get into a raid to even show people I am good because of the above two problems. You think maybe it might be because of the level of scrutinization that is required to raid, and that anet should do something to reduce it? Since so many others have been complaining about this and not just me? Or is this just all me is the problem and raiding is 100% fine and nobody in gw2 has a problem with it.

 

No one is saying you're lying about your skill level or how you learn. It's just too many others DO lie about their skill level and how they learn, so it ruins it for those who don't lie about things. So the players who don't want to risk any failures, but still have to PUG, do require proof that you have skill at the particular raid wing they are trying to do.

 

I don't know if you frequented the dungeon forum on the old forums, but there was a person in there who outright admitted that he would LIE about his LI and generate fake chat links to "prove" he had the proper LI. Of course, this was quickly spread among the raiding masses and he came crying to forums saying people would kick him immediately even though they've never raided before. It's those type of people who have ruined for those who are honest about their skill and how they learn.

[Loosmaster.8263]

Raids were introduced for a particular subset of players, not for the casual GW2 player(me). Stop trying to change an entire game to fit your playstyle. See OP's post history...

[Jumpin Lumpix.6108]

> @Loosmaster.8263 said:

> Raids were introduced for a particular subset of players, not for the casual GW2 player(me). Stop trying to change an entire game to fit your playstyle. See OP's post history...

 

I never said to make raids easier. I think they are easy, I think they need more options for grouping so people don't scrutinize joining players so much. If the only solution they can implement is to lower raid difficulty, then so be it.

[inubasiri.8745]

Problem is, that with a critical number of people not very experienced in raids, the boss attempt will fail (it's usually like 2-4 people). So naturally, people don't want to waste their time, they try to vet the pugs to get a group that won't be wasting their time. Then they eventually form a static group and in time become a good group and then they see the increased performance of the group based on concerted efforts, not just a sum of individuals. Then, most people will just become elitist at that point absolutely refusing to run with pugs unless they can be sure that the pug is good. It comes out of personal experience and evaluation of the situation.

[Cynn.1659]

> @Seteruss.4058 said:

> Story mode/hard mode...as everywhere.

> Problem solved

>

 

Then people do story mode once, and come back to forum to cry that there are no good rewards . It's just a waste of dev time..

[zealex.9410]

> @Cynn.1659 said:

> > @Seteruss.4058 said:

> > Story mode/hard mode...as everywhere.

> > Problem solved

> >

>

> Then people do story mode once, and come back to forum to cry that there are no good rewards . It's just a waste of dev time..

 

W8 story mode wont give me full rewards and li nor will it be daily? WTF???

[chronometria.3708]

The way the classes are built means that even good players suffer when they play raids - I mean, in the latest "recommended classes" list on reddit, they referred to the warrior build as "banner-slave", for example. There are people stuck in certain classes and horrible playstyles and they would dearly love to try or play another class but the raid mechanics and their guilds will not let them. Raids have become an exercise not in enjoyable, challenging gaming, but in soulless perfection, where your own friends will disown you if you are choosing fun over efficiency.

[Sykper.6583]

> @Cynn.1659 said:

> > @Seteruss.4058 said:

> > Story mode/hard mode...as everywhere.

> > Problem solved

> >

>

> Then people do story mode once, and come back to forum to cry that there are no good rewards . It's just a waste of dev time..

 

*ding ding ding*

 

We've already had this discourse before, Story Mode simply isn't worth it. Creating the CMs in the devs own words took far more resources to be viable, so imagine that reworking the whole raid wings for a more 'casual' audience is out of the question.

 

One design, one difficulty. Keep it simple and hard, and I hope this next set of raid wings comes out in more frequent fashion.

[Jumpin Lumpix.6108]

I know that if I forced myself to get into raids in the current setup, I would definitely be elitist and exclude everyone else who isn't perfect, because the barrier to entry and amount of effort and time to set up a raid is so high and the pool of players are casual since gw2 is a casual mmo. There is no easy way to add players, you have to manually do it and there is joke content like fractals and then raids with no gap inbetween.

 

The entire raid is balanced around having specific things which are very gimmicky and they require specific builds and classes (which is no big deal in and of itself)which translate to increased player selectivity, but if you compound that by the fact that no other content in game really requires this, then you get a huge disparity between raiders and casual gw2 players. Then the entire experience from meeting these requirement to convincing others to let you into a raid are passed off as overall, raid difficulty and hard content.

 

The way it is I don't even really want to bother. So I don't try.

[Sykper.6583]

Imo, I agree that there's a fairly large divide still between Raiding and the open world. Even while the devs attempt to make open world slightly more challenging in places here and there, It's not quite there yet.

 

They can only encourage players undergoing more difficult content through what I believe is the introduction of new fractals, mind you, I think they made Shattered Observatory too long of a fractal, but I admire the difficulty of even the normal mode. The best method is raising the baseline skill level of all the players, or at least that 'average'.

[zombyturtle.5980]

> @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said:

> > @zombyturtle.5980 said:

> > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said:

> > > > @maddoctor.2738 said:

> > > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said:

> > > > > thanks for being an example of the mindset of the average raider and what they think of new players trying to join there raid, this has showcased the problem quite nicely.

> > > >

> > > > This "problem" of yours has a very easy solution. New players join training runs and shouldn't expect to be taken otherwise. Or join a guild/static, you might make some friends in the process.

> > >

> > > sorry not joining a training raid, not going to lower myself to that ( i tried 1-2 of them and it was ridiculous so no more), i just assume not do the raids even though im grossly over competent and qualified to do them. Anet needs to do something to facilitate grouping and reduce player scrutinization, this feels like trying to do raid content in 2001 where there are no options for grouping or difficulty alternatives, there is a reason all modern mmos have abandoned this outdated model of raiding except for gw2 it seems.

> >

> > You are the most elitist person ive seen in a long time. Maybe fix your own attitude before asking anet to change the game.

>

> oh so my attitude will make me better at raids? How? Im a good player regardless of how I behave. OHHH so your saying that part of raiding is the psychological mind convincing game that anet needs to address? - in fact its 99% of raiding, no personal skill required because you cant even raid w/out it, you just be nice or behave a certain way and its smooth sailing (even being nice doesn't help either 99% of the time to get me in a raid group - tried it. I tried being nice or not talking and neither of those work). Wow they should advertise that being nice is the key to winning at raids, And here i thought raiding was hard content, but apparently player skill doesn't come into play only behaving in a certain way.

 

Nah. You never answer what you are going to do when anet hypothetically 'fixes' raids so that they arent exclusionary and you are forced to group with players with bad builds and 0 experience non stop. You will basically be doing a training run every single time. Since you refuse to 'lower yourself' to that now and are far too skilled for it, you better fix your attitude fast and get used to carrying noobs or fail runs. Your own personal elitism isnt going to work in your new raid style.

[Jumpin Lumpix.6108]

> @zombyturtle.5980 said:

> > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said:

> > > @zombyturtle.5980 said:

> > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said:

> > > > > @maddoctor.2738 said:

> > > > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said:

> > > > > > thanks for being an example of the mindset of the average raider and what they think of new players trying to join there raid, this has showcased the problem quite nicely.

> > > > >

> > > > > This "problem" of yours has a very easy solution. New players join training runs and shouldn't expect to be taken otherwise. Or join a guild/static, you might make some friends in the process.

> > > >

> > > > sorry not joining a training raid, not going to lower myself to that ( i tried 1-2 of them and it was ridiculous so no more), i just assume not do the raids even though im grossly over competent and qualified to do them. Anet needs to do something to facilitate grouping and reduce player scrutinization, this feels like trying to do raid content in 2001 where there are no options for grouping or difficulty alternatives, there is a reason all modern mmos have abandoned this outdated model of raiding except for gw2 it seems.

> > >

> > > You are the most elitist person ive seen in a long time. Maybe fix your own attitude before asking anet to change the game.

> >

> > oh so my attitude will make me better at raids? How? Im a good player regardless of how I behave. OHHH so your saying that part of raiding is the psychological mind convincing game that anet needs to address? - in fact its 99% of raiding, no personal skill required because you cant even raid w/out it, you just be nice or behave a certain way and its smooth sailing (even being nice doesn't help either 99% of the time to get me in a raid group - tried it. I tried being nice or not talking and neither of those work). Wow they should advertise that being nice is the key to winning at raids, And here i thought raiding was hard content, but apparently player skill doesn't come into play only behaving in a certain way.

>

> Nah. You never answer what you are going to do when anet hypothetically 'fixes' raids so that they arent exclusionary and you are forced to group with players with bad builds and 0 experience non stop. You will basically be doing a training run every single time. Since you refuse to 'lower yourself' to that now and are far too skilled for it, you better fix your attitude fast and get used to carrying noobs or fail runs. Your own personal elitism isnt going to work in your new raid style.

 

I never said i knew what the solution was, your pointing out one solution I suggested and taking it to some finality. They might need to put in multiple solutions, like lowered raid difficult, auto grouping and removing boss timers. All I know now is that I'm not doing raids as they are and it's not because of the raids are too hard or the content isn't for me.

 

Player skill should always trump social interactions especially when rewards are based on player skills and not on some social interactions or behaving in a certain way.

 

Franky I would prefer raiding and not talking at all.

[Jumpin Lumpix.6108]

Double post

[zombyturtle.5980]

> @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said:

> > @zombyturtle.5980 said:

> > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said:

> > > > @zombyturtle.5980 said:

> > > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said:

> > > > > > @maddoctor.2738 said:

> > > > > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said:

> > > > > > > thanks for being an example of the mindset of the average raider and what they think of new players trying to join there raid, this has showcased the problem quite nicely.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > This "problem" of yours has a very easy solution. New players join training runs and shouldn't expect to be taken otherwise. Or join a guild/static, you might make some friends in the process.

> > > > >

> > > > > sorry not joining a training raid, not going to lower myself to that ( i tried 1-2 of them and it was ridiculous so no more), i just assume not do the raids even though im grossly over competent and qualified to do them. Anet needs to do something to facilitate grouping and reduce player scrutinization, this feels like trying to do raid content in 2001 where there are no options for grouping or difficulty alternatives, there is a reason all modern mmos have abandoned this outdated model of raiding except for gw2 it seems.

> > > >

> > > > You are the most elitist person ive seen in a long time. Maybe fix your own attitude before asking anet to change the game.

> > >

> > > oh so my attitude will make me better at raids? How? Im a good player regardless of how I behave. OHHH so your saying that part of raiding is the psychological mind convincing game that anet needs to address? - in fact its 99% of raiding, no personal skill required because you cant even raid w/out it, you just be nice or behave a certain way and its smooth sailing (even being nice doesn't help either 99% of the time to get me in a raid group - tried it. I tried being nice or not talking and neither of those work). Wow they should advertise that being nice is the key to winning at raids, And here i thought raiding was hard content, but apparently player skill doesn't come into play only behaving in a certain way.

> >

> > Nah. You never answer what you are going to do when anet hypothetically 'fixes' raids so that they arent exclusionary and you are forced to group with players with bad builds and 0 experience non stop. You will basically be doing a training run every single time. Since you refuse to 'lower yourself' to that now and are far too skilled for it, you better fix your attitude fast and get used to carrying noobs or fail runs. Your own personal elitism isnt going to work in your new raid style.

>

> I never said i knew what the solution was, your pointing out one solution I suggested and taking it to some finality. They might need to put in multiple solutions, like lowered raid difficult, auto grouping and removing boss timers. All I know now is that I'm not doing raids as they are and it's not because of the raids are too hard or the content isn't for me.

>

> Player skill should always trump social interactions especially when rewards are based on player skills and not on some social interactions or behaving in a certain way.

>

> Franky I would prefer raiding and not talking at all.

 

Even if they implemented all 3 solutions, you would still be forced to group with noobs and have training runs for every run. Remove the ability to be elitist, be forced to play with the rest of the bad and inexperienced players.

 

I didnt focus on any particular solution, just your suggestion to stop or reduce elitism. So please answer what you will do when you are grouped with 9 other players in PTV gear with condi weapons who have never stepped into a raid before.

[Jumpin Lumpix.6108]

> @zombyturtle.5980 said:

> > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said:

> > > @zombyturtle.5980 said:

> > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said:

> > > > > @zombyturtle.5980 said:

> > > > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said:

> > > > > > > @maddoctor.2738 said:

> > > > > > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said:

> > > > > > > > thanks for being an example of the mindset of the average raider and what they think of new players trying to join there raid, this has showcased the problem quite nicely.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > This "problem" of yours has a very easy solution. New players join training runs and shouldn't expect to be taken otherwise. Or join a guild/static, you might make some friends in the process.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > sorry not joining a training raid, not going to lower myself to that ( i tried 1-2 of them and it was ridiculous so no more), i just assume not do the raids even though im grossly over competent and qualified to do them. Anet needs to do something to facilitate grouping and reduce player scrutinization, this feels like trying to do raid content in 2001 where there are no options for grouping or difficulty alternatives, there is a reason all modern mmos have abandoned this outdated model of raiding except for gw2 it seems.

> > > > >

> > > > > You are the most elitist person ive seen in a long time. Maybe fix your own attitude before asking anet to change the game.

> > > >

> > > > oh so my attitude will make me better at raids? How? Im a good player regardless of how I behave. OHHH so your saying that part of raiding is the psychological mind convincing game that anet needs to address? - in fact its 99% of raiding, no personal skill required because you cant even raid w/out it, you just be nice or behave a certain way and its smooth sailing (even being nice doesn't help either 99% of the time to get me in a raid group - tried it. I tried being nice or not talking and neither of those work). Wow they should advertise that being nice is the key to winning at raids, And here i thought raiding was hard content, but apparently player skill doesn't come into play only behaving in a certain way.

> > >

> > > Nah. You never answer what you are going to do when anet hypothetically 'fixes' raids so that they arent exclusionary and you are forced to group with players with bad builds and 0 experience non stop. You will basically be doing a training run every single time. Since you refuse to 'lower yourself' to that now and are far too skilled for it, you better fix your attitude fast and get used to carrying noobs or fail runs. Your own personal elitism isnt going to work in your new raid style.

> >

> > I never said i knew what the solution was, your pointing out one solution I suggested and taking it to some finality. They might need to put in multiple solutions, like lowered raid difficult, auto grouping and removing boss timers. All I know now is that I'm not doing raids as they are and it's not because of the raids are too hard or the content isn't for me.

> >

> > Player skill should always trump social interactions especially when rewards are based on player skills and not on some social interactions or behaving in a certain way.

> >

> > Franky I would prefer raiding and not talking at all.

>

> Even if they implemented all 3 solutions, you would still be forced to group with noobs and have training runs for every run. Remove the ability to be elitist, be forced to play with the rest of the bad and inexperienced players.

>

> I didnt focus on any particular solution, just your suggestion to stop or reduce elitism. So please answer what you will do when you are grouped with 9 other players in PTV gear with condi weapons who have never stepped into a raid before.

 

Well if there was no boss timer, it autogrouped me in with 9 noobs and the bosses were easier, I'd say we would def win eventually. If not I could easily auto join another group and outshine all the rest with a couple of simple clicks. People recruiting for harder raids or helping there friends who have hard core raid groups would notice me.

 

No talking or elitism necessary.