Jumpin Lumpix.6108 Posted November 26, 2017 Author Share Posted November 26, 2017 > @Talindra.4958 said: > not sure about fixing elitism but perhaps fixing players own attitude towards the games first might help. I have seen people starting a month ago and never given up and achieved what they need. I don't see any problem for any new raiders to start today if they stop crying and actually start to put effort in it. > I pugged my way from start, I have seen people getting kicked, seen people refuse to change, seen people cry about everything but refuse to fit in. so these are the people that they should accept that you either need to fight for it to achieve it or leave it. similar to real life you cant forced urself to be a doctor, engineer, lawyer, artist, you need to put effort to train urself to it. and no point crying about it by only try 40 hours training? > we wipe over and over and over and over and over before we master how to play in a team .. how to manage mechanics. I also seen people try a few and they couldn't accept that they couldn't do it, they really have to say all the bad stuff about raids. > accept that, the fact there are a handful of raiders, and anet will continue to provide reasonable updates for them and similar to fractal, similar to living story. pvp & wvw? anet probably has a long term plan or none due to good reasons. so accept the fact and play or don't bother. Only I'm overqualified when it comes to raiding, but grouping in gw2 is too frustrating compared to other mmos. If I take your analogy of training to be a lawyer or doctor for years, and apply it to myself, then I already have put the time in, but it's as if I'm unable to show my diploma, a resume or work history to others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seera.5916 Posted November 26, 2017 Share Posted November 26, 2017 > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > @Talindra.4958 said: > > not sure about fixing elitism but perhaps fixing players own attitude towards the games first might help. I have seen people starting a month ago and never given up and achieved what they need. I don't see any problem for any new raiders to start today if they stop crying and actually start to put effort in it. > > I pugged my way from start, I have seen people getting kicked, seen people refuse to change, seen people cry about everything but refuse to fit in. so these are the people that they should accept that you either need to fight for it to achieve it or leave it. similar to real life you cant forced urself to be a doctor, engineer, lawyer, artist, you need to put effort to train urself to it. and no point crying about it by only try 40 hours training? > > we wipe over and over and over and over and over before we master how to play in a team .. how to manage mechanics. I also seen people try a few and they couldn't accept that they couldn't do it, they really have to say all the bad stuff about raids. > > accept that, the fact there are a handful of raiders, and anet will continue to provide reasonable updates for them and similar to fractal, similar to living story. pvp & wvw? anet probably has a long term plan or none due to good reasons. so accept the fact and play or don't bother. > > Only I'm overqualified when it comes to raiding, but grouping in gw2 is too frustrating compared to other mmos. > > If I take your analogy of training to be a lawyer or doctor for years, and apply it to myself, then I already have put the time in, but it's as if I'm unable to show my diploma, a resume or work history to others. Except the diploma is proof of TRAINING. Work history is proof you've done the job before, and believe me it's harder to get a job as a doctor in one field if you've only had experience in a different field. You have not shown any proof that you've trained. Claiming you've watched a video is not proof. I'm not saying you haven't watched any videos, but people would lie if all they had to say was that they watched a few YouTube videos. You're frustrated that you have to socialize in an MMO in order to get into a group to raid?! Wow. And this is coming from a shy introvert who doesn't like communicating with people. But I will do it in MMO's or not partake in the content that requires it. And dungeons, raids, fractals, meta-maps, etc REQUIRE communication both before and during the encounter. I'm actually honestly SHOCKED that there is not MORE content than currently exists that requires me to group up with others or do without the rewards. This is multiplayer game, not a single player game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aeolus.3615 Posted November 26, 2017 Share Posted November 26, 2017 5 guys.. Same classes... Almost same stats, with one or 2 pieces diference.... Still measure DPS with 3rd party tools.... Cause skils and damage formulas are to complicated in a very simple and basic game... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumpin Lumpix.6108 Posted November 26, 2017 Author Share Posted November 26, 2017 > @Seera.5916 said: > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > @Talindra.4958 said: > > > not sure about fixing elitism but perhaps fixing players own attitude towards the games first might help. I have seen people starting a month ago and never given up and achieved what they need. I don't see any problem for any new raiders to start today if they stop crying and actually start to put effort in it. > > > I pugged my way from start, I have seen people getting kicked, seen people refuse to change, seen people cry about everything but refuse to fit in. so these are the people that they should accept that you either need to fight for it to achieve it or leave it. similar to real life you cant forced urself to be a doctor, engineer, lawyer, artist, you need to put effort to train urself to it. and no point crying about it by only try 40 hours training? > > > we wipe over and over and over and over and over before we master how to play in a team .. how to manage mechanics. I also seen people try a few and they couldn't accept that they couldn't do it, they really have to say all the bad stuff about raids. > > > accept that, the fact there are a handful of raiders, and anet will continue to provide reasonable updates for them and similar to fractal, similar to living story. pvp & wvw? anet probably has a long term plan or none due to good reasons. so accept the fact and play or don't bother. > > > > Only I'm overqualified when it comes to raiding, but grouping in gw2 is too frustrating compared to other mmos. > > > > If I take your analogy of training to be a lawyer or doctor for years, and apply it to myself, then I already have put the time in, but it's as if I'm unable to show my diploma, a resume or work history to others. > > Except the diploma is proof of TRAINING. Work history is proof you've done the job before, and believe me it's harder to get a job as a doctor in one field if you've only had experience in a different field. > > You have not shown any proof that you've trained. Claiming you've watched a video is not proof. I'm not saying you haven't watched any videos, but people would lie if all they had to say was that they watched a few YouTube videos. > > You're frustrated that you have to socialize in an MMO in order to get into a group to raid?! Wow. And this is coming from a shy introvert who doesn't like communicating with people. But I will do it in MMO's or not partake in the content that requires it. And dungeons, raids, fractals, meta-maps, etc REQUIRE communication both before and during the encounter. I'm actually honestly SHOCKED that there is not MORE content than currently exists that requires me to group up with others or do without the rewards. This is multiplayer game, not a single player game. Your right there is no such thing as video game diploma but the fact of the matter is that I'm a very experienced raider, and whether anyone believes me or not I can one shot a boss after watching a YouTube video, I've done this many times before in many mmos. But there is no way to prove this or demonstrate any of my skill except for to join a training raid, which is designed (made up by the community as a stop gap measure) not to succeed and others in the group will make me look bad as we will fail over and over with no intent of success. I'm not wasting my time proving to people who I am in this manner, and I don't want to start my own group as this is way too much effort and others would then have to prove themselves to me and I'm not interested in that either as there is no way to easily connect with other good players. There are no other alternatives to this and there should be, because there are in other mmos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Razor.6392 Posted November 26, 2017 Share Posted November 26, 2017 All you people should just stop replying to this dude. You will not persuade him so why bother? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seera.5916 Posted November 26, 2017 Share Posted November 26, 2017 > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > @Seera.5916 said: > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > @Talindra.4958 said: > > > > not sure about fixing elitism but perhaps fixing players own attitude towards the games first might help. I have seen people starting a month ago and never given up and achieved what they need. I don't see any problem for any new raiders to start today if they stop crying and actually start to put effort in it. > > > > I pugged my way from start, I have seen people getting kicked, seen people refuse to change, seen people cry about everything but refuse to fit in. so these are the people that they should accept that you either need to fight for it to achieve it or leave it. similar to real life you cant forced urself to be a doctor, engineer, lawyer, artist, you need to put effort to train urself to it. and no point crying about it by only try 40 hours training? > > > > we wipe over and over and over and over and over before we master how to play in a team .. how to manage mechanics. I also seen people try a few and they couldn't accept that they couldn't do it, they really have to say all the bad stuff about raids. > > > > accept that, the fact there are a handful of raiders, and anet will continue to provide reasonable updates for them and similar to fractal, similar to living story. pvp & wvw? anet probably has a long term plan or none due to good reasons. so accept the fact and play or don't bother. > > > > > > Only I'm overqualified when it comes to raiding, but grouping in gw2 is too frustrating compared to other mmos. > > > > > > If I take your analogy of training to be a lawyer or doctor for years, and apply it to myself, then I already have put the time in, but it's as if I'm unable to show my diploma, a resume or work history to others. > > > > Except the diploma is proof of TRAINING. Work history is proof you've done the job before, and believe me it's harder to get a job as a doctor in one field if you've only had experience in a different field. > > > > You have not shown any proof that you've trained. Claiming you've watched a video is not proof. I'm not saying you haven't watched any videos, but people would lie if all they had to say was that they watched a few YouTube videos. > > > > You're frustrated that you have to socialize in an MMO in order to get into a group to raid?! Wow. And this is coming from a shy introvert who doesn't like communicating with people. But I will do it in MMO's or not partake in the content that requires it. And dungeons, raids, fractals, meta-maps, etc REQUIRE communication both before and during the encounter. I'm actually honestly SHOCKED that there is not MORE content than currently exists that requires me to group up with others or do without the rewards. This is multiplayer game, not a single player game. > > Your right there is no such thing as video game diploma but the fact of the matter is that I'm a very experienced raider, and whether anyone believes me or not I can one shot a boss after watching a YouTube video, I've done this many times before in many mmos. But there is no way to prove this or demonstrate any of my skill except for to join a training raid, which is designed (made up by the community as a stop gap measure) not to succeed and others in the group will make me look bad as we will fail over and over with no intent of success. > > I'm not wasting my time proving to people who I am in this manner, and I don't want to start my own group as this is way too much effort and others would then have to prove themselves to me and I'm not interested in that either as there is no way to easily connect with other good players. There are no other alternatives to this and there should be, because there are in other mmos. And if I recall correctly, ANet said that raids were not meant to be PUG'ed. Meaning it was supposed to be difficulty for 10 strangers to band together to defeat the raid. Meaning training raids are there to give you the training needed in order to form your own dedicated group. Be it by finding 9 other like minded individuals and becoming friends or be it by finding a guild that raids that takes you in after doing a trial run or two. And one minute. You don't want to prove yourself to others, but you want them to prove themselves to you?!?!?!?!?! That's the most hypocritical thing you've said in this entire thread. If you want others to accept people at their word, then YOU need to be the one to start that movement. You need to go out there and start "take you at your word" groups when it comes to ability to learn or experience with the raid. You can't have it both ways. You can't tell others to accept you without proof, but then turn around and not extend the same courtesy to other people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loosmaster.8263 Posted November 26, 2017 Share Posted November 26, 2017 What gets me is his claim of "one shot" on a raid boss and he's over here https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/17687/increase-stamina-bar-and-nerf-vit-tough-in-wvw#latest hating on PVT stats, lol. Vid on it never happened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arzurag.7506 Posted November 26, 2017 Share Posted November 26, 2017 The ppl who do raiding do nothing wrong in being elitists. The greater problem is the time limit of each encounter and the need of reaching a certain amount of damage for a dps-check. Why can´t we take the time we want to kill the boss ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rennie.6750 Posted November 26, 2017 Share Posted November 26, 2017 "Elitists" are from my experience a very specific type of player: works a lot, little time to play, so little time to practice and really average at best. Usually, sub-average. When you listen to them, everything is easy, but when you look at them they're just derping around. Since they have little practice but also little time outside of their daily wage slavery duty, they get angry fast. They're quick to blame and don't see inherent value in bettering themselves having a couple of idiots doing random idiotic things in the instance and having to be the better player. Good players usually have more free time and don't care much if they have to step up their game because there's a dead weight or two. They have a more relaxed stance on this and the challenge of having to carry someone roleplaying a carpet isn't terrifying. The problem here is that you're asking people who are unable or unwilling to improve, because they think they're good enough and don't want to commit more time to better their skills. All they can do is play the blame game, so, really, your only option is to change some core elements of the game design, such as removing LFG and adding a raid finder, different tiers of difficulty to breed capable pug players just like the fractal tier system, or increasing the reaction time to mechanics to make raids less difficult to learn and play. There's no serious other option if you want to get rid off elitism. You won't change elitists unless you tell them "ok now you play that way, with these players we found for you or you don't raid at all". If you want them to become better players and start becoming a positive force in a group, they have to be forced to do so, otherwise all they do is rolling the LFG roulette until they find someone who can deal with their sub average skills since they refuse to put more time in the game. Overall their life isn't very interesting and they don't have much fun, and I pity them more than I blame them, but good game design can really alleviate toxic behaviour most of the time, however, it takes a lot of dev time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seera.5916 Posted November 26, 2017 Share Posted November 26, 2017 > @Rennie.6750 said: > "Elitists" are from my experience a very specific type of player: works a lot, little time to play, so little time to practice and really average at best. Usually, sub-average. When you listen to them, everything is easy, but when you look at them they're just kitten around. Since they have little practice but also little time outside of their daily wage slavery duty, they get angry fast. They're quick to blame and don't see inherent value in bettering themselves having a couple of idiots doing random idiotic things in the instance and having to be the better player. Good players usually have more free time and don't care much if they have to step up their game because there's a dead weight or two. They have a more relaxed stance on this and the challenge of having to carry someone roleplaying a carpet isn't terrifying. > > The problem here is that you're asking people who are unable or unwilling to improve, because they think they're good enough and don't want to commit more time to better their skills. All they can do is play the blame game, so, really, your only option is to change some core elements of the game design, such as removing LFG and adding a raid finder, different tiers of difficulty to breed capable pug players just like the fractal tier system, or increasing the reaction time to mechanics to make raids less difficult to learn and play. There's no serious other option if you want to get rid off elitism. You won't change elitists unless you tell them "ok now you play that way, with these players we found for you or you don't raid at all". If you want them to become better players and start becoming a positive force in a group, they have to be forced to do so, otherwise all they do is rolling the LFG roulette until they find someone who can deal with their sub average skills since they refuse to put more time in the game. Overall their life isn't very interesting and they don't have much fun, and I pity them more than I blame them, but good game design can really alleviate toxic behaviour most of the time, however, it takes a lot of dev time. That's the bad kind of elitist. There is also the good elitist who does have the time, skill, and dedication. Those elitists are typically more than happy to bring average players up in skill level to increase the pool of good elitists. The more players that are good elitists, the better it is for the mode Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumpin Lumpix.6108 Posted November 26, 2017 Author Share Posted November 26, 2017 > @Seera.5916 said: > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > @Seera.5916 said: > > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > > @Talindra.4958 said: > > > > > not sure about fixing elitism but perhaps fixing players own attitude towards the games first might help. I have seen people starting a month ago and never given up and achieved what they need. I don't see any problem for any new raiders to start today if they stop crying and actually start to put effort in it. > > > > > I pugged my way from start, I have seen people getting kicked, seen people refuse to change, seen people cry about everything but refuse to fit in. so these are the people that they should accept that you either need to fight for it to achieve it or leave it. similar to real life you cant forced urself to be a doctor, engineer, lawyer, artist, you need to put effort to train urself to it. and no point crying about it by only try 40 hours training? > > > > > we wipe over and over and over and over and over before we master how to play in a team .. how to manage mechanics. I also seen people try a few and they couldn't accept that they couldn't do it, they really have to say all the bad stuff about raids. > > > > > accept that, the fact there are a handful of raiders, and anet will continue to provide reasonable updates for them and similar to fractal, similar to living story. pvp & wvw? anet probably has a long term plan or none due to good reasons. so accept the fact and play or don't bother. > > > > > > > > Only I'm overqualified when it comes to raiding, but grouping in gw2 is too frustrating compared to other mmos. > > > > > > > > If I take your analogy of training to be a lawyer or doctor for years, and apply it to myself, then I already have put the time in, but it's as if I'm unable to show my diploma, a resume or work history to others. > > > > > > Except the diploma is proof of TRAINING. Work history is proof you've done the job before, and believe me it's harder to get a job as a doctor in one field if you've only had experience in a different field. > > > > > > You have not shown any proof that you've trained. Claiming you've watched a video is not proof. I'm not saying you haven't watched any videos, but people would lie if all they had to say was that they watched a few YouTube videos. > > > > > > You're frustrated that you have to socialize in an MMO in order to get into a group to raid?! Wow. And this is coming from a shy introvert who doesn't like communicating with people. But I will do it in MMO's or not partake in the content that requires it. And dungeons, raids, fractals, meta-maps, etc REQUIRE communication both before and during the encounter. I'm actually honestly SHOCKED that there is not MORE content than currently exists that requires me to group up with others or do without the rewards. This is multiplayer game, not a single player game. > > > > Your right there is no such thing as video game diploma but the fact of the matter is that I'm a very experienced raider, and whether anyone believes me or not I can one shot a boss after watching a YouTube video, I've done this many times before in many mmos. But there is no way to prove this or demonstrate any of my skill except for to join a training raid, which is designed (made up by the community as a stop gap measure) not to succeed and others in the group will make me look bad as we will fail over and over with no intent of success. > > > > I'm not wasting my time proving to people who I am in this manner, and I don't want to start my own group as this is way too much effort and others would then have to prove themselves to me and I'm not interested in that either as there is no way to easily connect with other good players. There are no other alternatives to this and there should be, because there are in other mmos. > > And if I recall correctly, ANet said that raids were not meant to be PUG'ed. Meaning it was supposed to be difficulty for 10 strangers to band together to defeat the raid. > > Meaning training raids are there to give you the training needed in order to form your own dedicated group. Be it by finding 9 other like minded individuals and becoming friends or be it by finding a guild that raids that takes you in after doing a trial run or two. > > > And one minute. You don't want to prove yourself to others, but you want them to prove themselves to you?!?!?!?!?! That's the most hypocritical thing you've said in this entire thread. If you want others to accept people at their word, then YOU need to be the one to start that movement. You need to go out there and start "take you at your word" groups when it comes to ability to learn or experience with the raid. > > You can't have it both ways. You can't tell others to accept you without proof, but then turn around and not extend the same courtesy to other people. Me vetting people into my group is a product of there not being easier raids or auto grouping, which is what is the point of this thread. Anet needs to fix this, since player mentality won't change. If I take the time to make a raid group my mentality certainly wouldn't change if I had to put in that amount of effort, with no features to assist me in finding players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seera.5916 Posted November 26, 2017 Share Posted November 26, 2017 > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > @Seera.5916 said: > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > @Seera.5916 said: > > > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > > > @Talindra.4958 said: > > > > > > not sure about fixing elitism but perhaps fixing players own attitude towards the games first might help. I have seen people starting a month ago and never given up and achieved what they need. I don't see any problem for any new raiders to start today if they stop crying and actually start to put effort in it. > > > > > > I pugged my way from start, I have seen people getting kicked, seen people refuse to change, seen people cry about everything but refuse to fit in. so these are the people that they should accept that you either need to fight for it to achieve it or leave it. similar to real life you cant forced urself to be a doctor, engineer, lawyer, artist, you need to put effort to train urself to it. and no point crying about it by only try 40 hours training? > > > > > > we wipe over and over and over and over and over before we master how to play in a team .. how to manage mechanics. I also seen people try a few and they couldn't accept that they couldn't do it, they really have to say all the bad stuff about raids. > > > > > > accept that, the fact there are a handful of raiders, and anet will continue to provide reasonable updates for them and similar to fractal, similar to living story. pvp & wvw? anet probably has a long term plan or none due to good reasons. so accept the fact and play or don't bother. > > > > > > > > > > Only I'm overqualified when it comes to raiding, but grouping in gw2 is too frustrating compared to other mmos. > > > > > > > > > > If I take your analogy of training to be a lawyer or doctor for years, and apply it to myself, then I already have put the time in, but it's as if I'm unable to show my diploma, a resume or work history to others. > > > > > > > > Except the diploma is proof of TRAINING. Work history is proof you've done the job before, and believe me it's harder to get a job as a doctor in one field if you've only had experience in a different field. > > > > > > > > You have not shown any proof that you've trained. Claiming you've watched a video is not proof. I'm not saying you haven't watched any videos, but people would lie if all they had to say was that they watched a few YouTube videos. > > > > > > > > You're frustrated that you have to socialize in an MMO in order to get into a group to raid?! Wow. And this is coming from a shy introvert who doesn't like communicating with people. But I will do it in MMO's or not partake in the content that requires it. And dungeons, raids, fractals, meta-maps, etc REQUIRE communication both before and during the encounter. I'm actually honestly SHOCKED that there is not MORE content than currently exists that requires me to group up with others or do without the rewards. This is multiplayer game, not a single player game. > > > > > > Your right there is no such thing as video game diploma but the fact of the matter is that I'm a very experienced raider, and whether anyone believes me or not I can one shot a boss after watching a YouTube video, I've done this many times before in many mmos. But there is no way to prove this or demonstrate any of my skill except for to join a training raid, which is designed (made up by the community as a stop gap measure) not to succeed and others in the group will make me look bad as we will fail over and over with no intent of success. > > > > > > I'm not wasting my time proving to people who I am in this manner, and I don't want to start my own group as this is way too much effort and others would then have to prove themselves to me and I'm not interested in that either as there is no way to easily connect with other good players. There are no other alternatives to this and there should be, because there are in other mmos. > > > > And if I recall correctly, ANet said that raids were not meant to be PUG'ed. Meaning it was supposed to be difficulty for 10 strangers to band together to defeat the raid. > > > > Meaning training raids are there to give you the training needed in order to form your own dedicated group. Be it by finding 9 other like minded individuals and becoming friends or be it by finding a guild that raids that takes you in after doing a trial run or two. > > > > > > And one minute. You don't want to prove yourself to others, but you want them to prove themselves to you?!?!?!?!?! That's the most hypocritical thing you've said in this entire thread. If you want others to accept people at their word, then YOU need to be the one to start that movement. You need to go out there and start "take you at your word" groups when it comes to ability to learn or experience with the raid. > > > > You can't have it both ways. You can't tell others to accept you without proof, but then turn around and not extend the same courtesy to other people. > > Me vetting people into my group is a product of there not being easier raids or auto grouping, which is what is the point of this thread. Anet needs to fix this, since player mentality won't change. If I take the time to make a raid group my mentality certainly wouldn't change if I had to put in that amount of effort, with no features to assist me in finding players. You aren't meant to have any easy time to PUG raids. Raids are DESIGNED for STATIC groups. As in 10 guild members, 10 friends, 10 people who decided they like each other enough to raid together. Easier raids and auto grouping will not fix the problem given the purpose of raids. Raids are supposed to be challenging group content aimed at static groups. Not PUG's and they aren't meant to be easy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coulter.2315 Posted November 26, 2017 Share Posted November 26, 2017 > @Arzurag.7506 said: > The ppl who do raiding do nothing wrong in being elitists. > The greater problem is the time limit of each encounter and the need of reaching a certain amount of damage for a dps-check. > > Why can´t we take the time we want to kill the boss ? Because part of the skill of raiding is doing it within the time limit and in squishy armour, the time limit does not defeat groups anyway (it is extremely forgiving), the mechanics do. You can even do some bosses with 10 tank/healers taking 30mins+ ignoring the timer completely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cynn.1659 Posted November 26, 2017 Share Posted November 26, 2017 > @Coulter.2315 said: > > @Arzurag.7506 said: > > The ppl who do raiding do nothing wrong in being elitists. > > The greater problem is the time limit of each encounter and the need of reaching a certain amount of damage for a dps-check. > > > > Why can´t we take the time we want to kill the boss ? > > Because part of the skill of raiding is doing it within the time limit and in squishy armour, the time limit does not defeat groups anyway (it is extremely forgiving), the mechanics do. You can even do some bosses with 10 tank/healers taking 30mins+ ignoring the timer completely. Remove the enrages, and you will be able to heal cheese through all of them. Those timers are there for a reason to stop just that. It wouldn't be challenging content, if you could just take 10 healers and cheese your way through the raid. Raids are already too easy, and making them even easier will not solve anything. Most people that raid do it for the fun, not rewards. Raid rewards are not even that good compared to some other places in the game. So anet adds story mode, all the people that complain about not having it, will do it just once, then never touch it agian. Because rewards are even worse than in regular raid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coulter.2315 Posted November 26, 2017 Share Posted November 26, 2017 > @Cynn.1659 said: > > @Coulter.2315 said: > > > @Arzurag.7506 said: > > > The ppl who do raiding do nothing wrong in being elitists. > > > The greater problem is the time limit of each encounter and the need of reaching a certain amount of damage for a dps-check. > > > > > > Why can´t we take the time we want to kill the boss ? > > > > Because part of the skill of raiding is doing it within the time limit and in squishy armour, the time limit does not defeat groups anyway (it is extremely forgiving), the mechanics do. You can even do some bosses with 10 tank/healers taking 30mins+ ignoring the timer completely. > > Remove the enrages, and you will be able to heal cheese through all of them. Those timers are there for a reason to stop just that. It wouldn't be challenging content, if you could just take 10 healers and cheese your way through the raid. Raids are already too easy, and making them even easier will not solve anything. > > Most people that raid do it for the fun, not rewards. Raid rewards are not even that good compared to some other places in the game. So anet adds story mode, all the people that complain about not having it, will do it just once, then never touch it agian. Because rewards are even worse than in regular raid. Oh I agree, the enrages must stay, they are as much a mechanic as any other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feanor.2358 Posted November 26, 2017 Share Posted November 26, 2017 > @Arzurag.7506 said: > The ppl who do raiding do nothing wrong in being elitists. > The greater problem is the time limit of each encounter and the need of reaching a certain amount of damage for a dps-check. > > Why can´t we take the time we want to kill the boss ? People who don't raid like to obsess on the enrage timers. Let me point something out for you. In T4 fractals and their CMs we can see exactly the same meta, with exactly the same mindset and levels of elitism. There are no timers and no dps checks there. Yet the end result is the same. Meaning the two are not cause and effect. The dps-centric meta doesn't exist because of a timer. It exists because of the fight mechanics. Every fight has certain mechanics, starting from the simple attacks the boss does and going up from there, which are designed to pressure the group, *to create challenge*. The more time you are exposed to this pressure, the greater the chance someone messes something up and the whole encounter goes downhill. This, again, exists in FotM as well. Think of Thaumanova, where people drop from platforms and die, and the encounter gets progressively harder and slower. Think of Subject 6 and people failing to kill the adds, resulting in full heal of the boss and large AoE attacks which wipe the whole party. Think of Bloomhunger charging in random directions, getting invulnerable and spaming AoE attacks. And don't even get me started on Nightmare/Chaos/Shattered. All of these become much more predictable with high dps. You limit the effects of these mechanics (by the way, it also applies to their normal attacks) by taking them down faster. By limiting their effects, you limit the risk of failure. That's the whole point. You don't DPS check against Gorseval because you have to. It's standard dps check is actually very, very relaxed. You dps check against him to skip the updrafts because it's safer and _more predictable_. Furthermore, there are bosses where it is actually possible to take your time. I have killed Matthias with more than 2 minutes overtime. He enraged and we just outhealed everything. Well, and didn't get hadooken'd. There are also fights like Gorseval and Sabetha where you have a hard limit (4 updrafts and platform's health respectively). This creates a feeling of urgency and danger. It is part of the experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deihnyx.6318 Posted November 26, 2017 Share Posted November 26, 2017 > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > @Seera.5916 said: > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > @Talindra.4958 said: > > > > not sure about fixing elitism but perhaps fixing players own attitude towards the games first might help. I have seen people starting a month ago and never given up and achieved what they need. I don't see any problem for any new raiders to start today if they stop crying and actually start to put effort in it. > > > > I pugged my way from start, I have seen people getting kicked, seen people refuse to change, seen people cry about everything but refuse to fit in. so these are the people that they should accept that you either need to fight for it to achieve it or leave it. similar to real life you cant forced urself to be a doctor, engineer, lawyer, artist, you need to put effort to train urself to it. and no point crying about it by only try 40 hours training? > > > > we wipe over and over and over and over and over before we master how to play in a team .. how to manage mechanics. I also seen people try a few and they couldn't accept that they couldn't do it, they really have to say all the bad stuff about raids. > > > > accept that, the fact there are a handful of raiders, and anet will continue to provide reasonable updates for them and similar to fractal, similar to living story. pvp & wvw? anet probably has a long term plan or none due to good reasons. so accept the fact and play or don't bother. > > > > > > Only I'm overqualified when it comes to raiding, but grouping in gw2 is too frustrating compared to other mmos. > > > > > > If I take your analogy of training to be a lawyer or doctor for years, and apply it to myself, then I already have put the time in, but it's as if I'm unable to show my diploma, a resume or work history to others. > > > > Except the diploma is proof of TRAINING. Work history is proof you've done the job before, and believe me it's harder to get a job as a doctor in one field if you've only had experience in a different field. > > > > You have not shown any proof that you've trained. Claiming you've watched a video is not proof. I'm not saying you haven't watched any videos, but people would lie if all they had to say was that they watched a few YouTube videos. > > > > You're frustrated that you have to socialize in an MMO in order to get into a group to raid?! Wow. And this is coming from a shy introvert who doesn't like communicating with people. But I will do it in MMO's or not partake in the content that requires it. And dungeons, raids, fractals, meta-maps, etc REQUIRE communication both before and during the encounter. I'm actually honestly SHOCKED that there is not MORE content than currently exists that requires me to group up with others or do without the rewards. This is multiplayer game, not a single player game. > > Your right there is no such thing as video game diploma but the fact of the matter is that I'm a very experienced raider, and whether anyone believes me or not I can one shot a boss after watching a YouTube video, I've done this many times before in many mmos. But there is no way to prove this or demonstrate any of my skill except for to join a training raid, which is designed (made up by the community as a stop gap measure) not to succeed and others in the group will make me look bad as we will fail over and over with no intent of success. > > I'm not wasting my time proving to people who I am in this manner, and I don't want to start my own group as this is way too much effort and others would then have to prove themselves to me and I'm not interested in that either as there is no way to easily connect with other good players. There are no other alternatives to this and there should be, because there are in other mmos. You have the right to say you are, I have the right to ask for proof. It's very, very simple, and none of the sides are wrong. If I was one of these groups: So far, you're only showing me you potentially play PVP, because where else than pvp do we find people claiming they're good at every post, and blaming others for doing things their way? You never did the fights? You are not experienced, certainly not over qualified. Being experienced has nothing to do with being good or bad, and again, has nothing to do with elitism or not. Experience is what it means... you know the fights, you know what class does what, you have the muscle memory trained for this specific fight... etc. If everyone claiming to be experienced was actually experienced, all groups would clear the 4 wings within 3-4 hours and nobody would ever complain. Experienced raiders spent hours after hours training to get to their "experienced" level, they didn't get their LI and "experienced" status out of nowhere, there was work put behind it. Not claims. For some people their first VG took them a few days, for others they still poke fun at each other reminding the first time they spent 2 hours at Trio. THIS is the philosophy behind raids. Facing difficult fights as a group, trying to overcome the difficulty, coming up with group comps and strategy and finally getting the thrill of your first kill. This whole philosophy is what raiders like about raids. But that's just me, it's my personal view about it, it doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things. Other players have as much the right to play the way they want that you have to play the way you want. The only difference is they are not bothering you, trying to get the game to change for their own sake. One last time, you have the option to create your own group, with your peeps, your rules. If you don't want to do that, just abide by the rules of the groups already in place. Some groups (even pugs) are very welcoming, something experienced raiders know very well. I know that whatever is said to you you will always feel like the have the right to join these groups and these groups are just vehement elitist for refusing you without proof, but at that point, you're just taking it too personally. I'm not completely against new levels of difficulty, but they won't fix the fact that you will always need organized groups to do raids. The day you don't need organized groups, it's simply not raids anymore, and I'll fight against it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumpin Lumpix.6108 Posted November 26, 2017 Author Share Posted November 26, 2017 > @Seera.5916 said: > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > @Seera.5916 said: > > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > > @Seera.5916 said: > > > > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > > > > @Talindra.4958 said: > > > > > > > not sure about fixing elitism but perhaps fixing players own attitude towards the games first might help. I have seen people starting a month ago and never given up and achieved what they need. I don't see any problem for any new raiders to start today if they stop crying and actually start to put effort in it. > > > > > > > I pugged my way from start, I have seen people getting kicked, seen people refuse to change, seen people cry about everything but refuse to fit in. so these are the people that they should accept that you either need to fight for it to achieve it or leave it. similar to real life you cant forced urself to be a doctor, engineer, lawyer, artist, you need to put effort to train urself to it. and no point crying about it by only try 40 hours training? > > > > > > > we wipe over and over and over and over and over before we master how to play in a team .. how to manage mechanics. I also seen people try a few and they couldn't accept that they couldn't do it, they really have to say all the bad stuff about raids. > > > > > > > accept that, the fact there are a handful of raiders, and anet will continue to provide reasonable updates for them and similar to fractal, similar to living story. pvp & wvw? anet probably has a long term plan or none due to good reasons. so accept the fact and play or don't bother. > > > > > > > > > > > > Only I'm overqualified when it comes to raiding, but grouping in gw2 is too frustrating compared to other mmos. > > > > > > > > > > > > If I take your analogy of training to be a lawyer or doctor for years, and apply it to myself, then I already have put the time in, but it's as if I'm unable to show my diploma, a resume or work history to others. > > > > > > > > > > Except the diploma is proof of TRAINING. Work history is proof you've done the job before, and believe me it's harder to get a job as a doctor in one field if you've only had experience in a different field. > > > > > > > > > > You have not shown any proof that you've trained. Claiming you've watched a video is not proof. I'm not saying you haven't watched any videos, but people would lie if all they had to say was that they watched a few YouTube videos. > > > > > > > > > > You're frustrated that you have to socialize in an MMO in order to get into a group to raid?! Wow. And this is coming from a shy introvert who doesn't like communicating with people. But I will do it in MMO's or not partake in the content that requires it. And dungeons, raids, fractals, meta-maps, etc REQUIRE communication both before and during the encounter. I'm actually honestly SHOCKED that there is not MORE content than currently exists that requires me to group up with others or do without the rewards. This is multiplayer game, not a single player game. > > > > > > > > Your right there is no such thing as video game diploma but the fact of the matter is that I'm a very experienced raider, and whether anyone believes me or not I can one shot a boss after watching a YouTube video, I've done this many times before in many mmos. But there is no way to prove this or demonstrate any of my skill except for to join a training raid, which is designed (made up by the community as a stop gap measure) not to succeed and others in the group will make me look bad as we will fail over and over with no intent of success. > > > > > > > > I'm not wasting my time proving to people who I am in this manner, and I don't want to start my own group as this is way too much effort and others would then have to prove themselves to me and I'm not interested in that either as there is no way to easily connect with other good players. There are no other alternatives to this and there should be, because there are in other mmos. > > > > > > And if I recall correctly, ANet said that raids were not meant to be PUG'ed. Meaning it was supposed to be difficulty for 10 strangers to band together to defeat the raid. > > > > > > Meaning training raids are there to give you the training needed in order to form your own dedicated group. Be it by finding 9 other like minded individuals and becoming friends or be it by finding a guild that raids that takes you in after doing a trial run or two. > > > > > > > > > And one minute. You don't want to prove yourself to others, but you want them to prove themselves to you?!?!?!?!?! That's the most hypocritical thing you've said in this entire thread. If you want others to accept people at their word, then YOU need to be the one to start that movement. You need to go out there and start "take you at your word" groups when it comes to ability to learn or experience with the raid. > > > > > > You can't have it both ways. You can't tell others to accept you without proof, but then turn around and not extend the same courtesy to other people. > > > > Me vetting people into my group is a product of there not being easier raids or auto grouping, which is what is the point of this thread. Anet needs to fix this, since player mentality won't change. If I take the time to make a raid group my mentality certainly wouldn't change if I had to put in that amount of effort, with no features to assist me in finding players. > > You aren't meant to have any easy time to PUG raids. Raids are DESIGNED for STATIC groups. As in 10 guild members, 10 friends, 10 people who decided they like each other enough to raid together. > > Easier raids and auto grouping will not fix the problem given the purpose of raids. Raids are supposed to be challenging group content aimed at static groups. Not PUG's and they aren't meant to be easy. They never said raids were aimed at static groups. They said it was challenging group content. They also never said pugs aren't supposed to do it either. Also I don't know why you keep thinking that part of raid difficulty is forming a group. If it's difficult to form a group then that's a logistical issue that Anet should address. Also forming a group isn't content, it's a chore that I would venture to guess that nobody enjoys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sorudo.9054 Posted November 26, 2017 Share Posted November 26, 2017 if a game mode can only be played by the small 10% and the other 90% are asking for easier difficulty, i see that as a good reason to actually add different difficulty levels. a game doesn't survive on just 10% of it's player base, it survives on 90% of it's player base. to me an elitist is just a jerk who is to greedy to share, if you think you can not waste time to play a piece of the game then you don't know how to have fun. being way to strict means you are way to serious, the thing a game is not made for. i also see from the same ppl the "advice" to join a raiding guild or make your own party, as if that makes things better. raiding guild are in general just as strict, you need to play their way or stay away which is not my idea of fun. a group filled with newbies doesn't teach, it annoys. believe me if i say that i am done carrying a group, ppl blaming the necro but in the end being the only one left alive and saving the frikin party. raids should be something anyone can access regardless of difficulty, raids are way to exclusive in that aspect and as long as it will never be addressed it will be a content of wasted time and effort on the dev's part. i wanted to see some open world changes, animation improvements and graphical enhancements (like bump mapping and real lighting effects) but they wasted that for raids, a content only a handful of players can enjoy and the rest got nothing. so to anyone saying things like "l2p" or "join X for raid access" think beyond your greed, there are many who wanted their share but never got any yet you did and even be a jerk about it. ether add mode difficulties so more ppl can join or make it easier all around, and i think you rather want the first rather then the latter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyninja.2954 Posted November 26, 2017 Share Posted November 26, 2017 > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > @Seera.5916 said: > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > @Seera.5916 said: > > > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > > > @Seera.5916 said: > > > > > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > > > > > @Talindra.4958 said: > > > > > > > > not sure about fixing elitism but perhaps fixing players own attitude towards the games first might help. I have seen people starting a month ago and never given up and achieved what they need. I don't see any problem for any new raiders to start today if they stop crying and actually start to put effort in it. > > > > > > > > I pugged my way from start, I have seen people getting kicked, seen people refuse to change, seen people cry about everything but refuse to fit in. so these are the people that they should accept that you either need to fight for it to achieve it or leave it. similar to real life you cant forced urself to be a doctor, engineer, lawyer, artist, you need to put effort to train urself to it. and no point crying about it by only try 40 hours training? > > > > > > > > we wipe over and over and over and over and over before we master how to play in a team .. how to manage mechanics. I also seen people try a few and they couldn't accept that they couldn't do it, they really have to say all the bad stuff about raids. > > > > > > > > accept that, the fact there are a handful of raiders, and anet will continue to provide reasonable updates for them and similar to fractal, similar to living story. pvp & wvw? anet probably has a long term plan or none due to good reasons. so accept the fact and play or don't bother. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Only I'm overqualified when it comes to raiding, but grouping in gw2 is too frustrating compared to other mmos. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If I take your analogy of training to be a lawyer or doctor for years, and apply it to myself, then I already have put the time in, but it's as if I'm unable to show my diploma, a resume or work history to others. > > > > > > > > > > > > Except the diploma is proof of TRAINING. Work history is proof you've done the job before, and believe me it's harder to get a job as a doctor in one field if you've only had experience in a different field. > > > > > > > > > > > > You have not shown any proof that you've trained. Claiming you've watched a video is not proof. I'm not saying you haven't watched any videos, but people would lie if all they had to say was that they watched a few YouTube videos. > > > > > > > > > > > > You're frustrated that you have to socialize in an MMO in order to get into a group to raid?! Wow. And this is coming from a shy introvert who doesn't like communicating with people. But I will do it in MMO's or not partake in the content that requires it. And dungeons, raids, fractals, meta-maps, etc REQUIRE communication both before and during the encounter. I'm actually honestly SHOCKED that there is not MORE content than currently exists that requires me to group up with others or do without the rewards. This is multiplayer game, not a single player game. > > > > > > > > > > Your right there is no such thing as video game diploma but the fact of the matter is that I'm a very experienced raider, and whether anyone believes me or not I can one shot a boss after watching a YouTube video, I've done this many times before in many mmos. But there is no way to prove this or demonstrate any of my skill except for to join a training raid, which is designed (made up by the community as a stop gap measure) not to succeed and others in the group will make me look bad as we will fail over and over with no intent of success. > > > > > > > > > > I'm not wasting my time proving to people who I am in this manner, and I don't want to start my own group as this is way too much effort and others would then have to prove themselves to me and I'm not interested in that either as there is no way to easily connect with other good players. There are no other alternatives to this and there should be, because there are in other mmos. > > > > > > > > And if I recall correctly, ANet said that raids were not meant to be PUG'ed. Meaning it was supposed to be difficulty for 10 strangers to band together to defeat the raid. > > > > > > > > Meaning training raids are there to give you the training needed in order to form your own dedicated group. Be it by finding 9 other like minded individuals and becoming friends or be it by finding a guild that raids that takes you in after doing a trial run or two. > > > > > > > > > > > > And one minute. You don't want to prove yourself to others, but you want them to prove themselves to you?!?!?!?!?! That's the most hypocritical thing you've said in this entire thread. If you want others to accept people at their word, then YOU need to be the one to start that movement. You need to go out there and start "take you at your word" groups when it comes to ability to learn or experience with the raid. > > > > > > > > You can't have it both ways. You can't tell others to accept you without proof, but then turn around and not extend the same courtesy to other people. > > > > > > Me vetting people into my group is a product of there not being easier raids or auto grouping, which is what is the point of this thread. Anet needs to fix this, since player mentality won't change. If I take the time to make a raid group my mentality certainly wouldn't change if I had to put in that amount of effort, with no features to assist me in finding players. > > > > You aren't meant to have any easy time to PUG raids. Raids are DESIGNED for STATIC groups. As in 10 guild members, 10 friends, 10 people who decided they like each other enough to raid together. > > > > Easier raids and auto grouping will not fix the problem given the purpose of raids. Raids are supposed to be challenging group content aimed at static groups. Not PUG's and they aren't meant to be easy. > > They never said raids were aimed at static groups. They said it was challenging group content. They also never said pugs aren't supposed to do it either. Also I don't know why you keep thinking that part of raid difficulty is forming a group. **If it's difficult to form a group then that's a logistical issue that Anet should address.** Also forming a group isn't content, it's a chore that I would venture to guess that nobody enjoys. Yet there is a ton of people who have no problem forming raid groups multiple times a week and new players joining raids constantly while older players fall away. Forming a group is something which has been an integral part of MMOs every since their conception. You being used to an auto-grouping feature from other games is more in conflict with what MMOs are (essentially a massive multiplayer game where players group to overcome challenges, compete with each other, etc.) by removing a huge part of the social aspect in favor of loot dedication. But go right ahead, keep blaming others and the system for your inability to raid (or more exact the inability to find people who want to raid with you). In the meantime, more players (with less impressive out of game credentials) will join raids, the cycle will continue and you'll get to jump on to the next "things need to change" thread a couple of weeks down the road once this one has expired. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingkiller.9645 Posted November 26, 2017 Share Posted November 26, 2017 > @Shirlias.8104 said: > Let's assume that 10% of GW2 players completed raids, though it won't be the truth. > Then we do have 90% players who didn't. > > Let's assume also that 90% players complain about the fact that 10% players tend to be elitists. > Even if so, you with the 90% of GW2 are allowed to play together, make your own team, and clear the raid however you want. > > But here's the bitter truth. > Players which are part of this 90% group have no idea how to play content. > They don't try to set up a party, and sometimes they don't read guides or watch videos in order to learn the strategy. > > The problems are not the elitists, but those who put blame on them. > Nobody want to carry em, and they don't want to make an effort in order to create a party and make a try with it. There are three core reasons why I do not play raids. 1. Nobody wants you in their group. Introductory raid guilds do not raid very often - once a week at a specific time. I have not found any who raid more often than perhaps twice a week. 2. Elitism. Yes, you can find people who aren't elitist, but finding someone who is willing to raid, willing to learn, willing to play with newer people, and won't start screaming or just leave the moment someone dies is extremely difficult. And you need to find 9 of them. 3. I don't feel the need to raid. You should not have to look up a guide to figure out how to kill a raid. Even if you did, there are tons of people out there who are 100% capable of doing so. They choose not to because of the content. Not their inability to play that content, but the attitude in the community, the fact that even if they run one or two or three raids with people who are willing to learn and teach new raiders, they will eventually run with the elitists. Some people do not because they are not interested in the rewards. Others do not because it is simply not their style of play. Just because someone doesn't raid doesn't mean they are unable to do so. The very fact that you are saying that elitism isn't the problem IS in itself elitism. You are blaming people who feel excluded and cut out by an already established raiding community. You make the very blatantly false claim that a vast majority of players do not know how to play the game. They do. They choose not to because if they enter a raid, they will be greeted with "you are not one of the 10%, so you must be fucking terrible at the game". It's an automatic judgement that simply because these players have never played a raid and never even attempted it, it must mean that they are bad. And it is exactly what you have said in your comment. There are exactly two reasons why I would ever attempt a raid. The first one is exploring the raid areas - getting them revealed on my map. I have already done this thanks to someone getting me into some cleared raid areas. The second reason is to unlock the raids mastery line, once I get back to HoT maps and finish the other lines. For no other reasons would I even consider a raid. I have no interest in them. Not because I can't, but because it is an aspect of the game that I have no desire to be a part of. Every time raids are discussed, elitism is a key aspect of the conversation. Even if no accusations of elitism are made, elitists themselves are abundant and they make themselves heard. "Only a small fraction of players are capable of doing raids, the content is too hard for everyone else." Elitism has no real grounding. Everyone is capable of doing them. Most are simply not interested in doing so. The only reason elitism exists is because they are called "raids", and because they are significantly more difficult to start playing than to play with an already established group and experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torolan.5816 Posted November 26, 2017 Share Posted November 26, 2017 I find it blatant rude to hear from players that others should up their game or that there has to be a learning curve in the content of a game. Stop it. It is not only simply none of your business if people choose to walk when you want them to run, I also see no evidence that a learning curve in a game where people casually come and go would be necessary. I am going close on 26K AP which means that I had both the dedication and the time to play a lot of GW2 but I would never urge my fellow players who have less time or commitment for the game to up their own game. Raiders and Nonraiders have by default problems to simply co-exist like regular PvE, Wvw and PvP can. The main difference is that you can´t simply hotjoin a raid, and you can´t drop out of it when you have no more time or will left to spend for it. The problem is see for dedicated raiders is that you can´t beat a raid by walking instead of running, so you either have to find or convince enough other players who are willing to run. It is the only game mode that should by all means necessary try to win loyal players if it wants to stay supported. But the pool of really good players is probably quite limited, so it is unreasonable to form members only clubs while hoping that someone else will probably build a farm team where you can farm the best people out. Contrary to raids WvW, PvE and PvP will always be able to pick up a casual here and there, give him some fun time and loose him again so there will always be support for it. You do not have to be good in it, you have diverse maps and tactical situations which allows you to participate in your own way with your own stuff and ideas and you still get something for your invested time and if it is only fun. You can´t walk out of a PvP match without at least some pocket change, and if you are not actually made out of cardboard you can also score some wvw points. The outrage over raids was possibly born by the idea that Anet threw out their initial concept which was or which at least i understood as come as you are. And this is a stigma it will never be able to shake off by its own nature. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kapax.3801 Posted November 26, 2017 Share Posted November 26, 2017 I never tire of repeating ... Normal Mode / Challenge Mode End of the problem, everyone happy  Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyninja.2954 Posted November 26, 2017 Share Posted November 26, 2017 > @Kapax.3801 said: > I never tire of repeating ... > > Normal Mode / Challenge Mode > > End of the problem, everyone happy > >  > Except for: - the content which had to get cut because of the time commitment the developers had to make to implement normal mode - the people for whom normal mode is still to hard - the adjusted loot for normal mode not being on par as "hard mode" and those 3 are just off the top of my head. Yeah, everyone is happy with this idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feanor.2358 Posted November 26, 2017 Share Posted November 26, 2017 > @sorudo.9054 said: > if a game mode can only be played by the small 10% and the other 90% are asking for easier difficulty, i see that as a good reason to actually add different difficulty levels. > a game doesn't survive on just 10% of it's player base, it survives on 90% of it's player base. The thing is, it isn't a good reason. Let me tell you why. Easier difficulty exists. It's called Fractals of the Mists. Adding "easy mode" raids changes nothing. The gameplay experience will be the same as in lower-tier fractals and will therefore serve no purpose. People won't play it actively because the rewards will suck. And if the rewards do not suck, it will make players abandon the normal mode raids. So you either lose the 10% of the population (because they lose interest), or you throw a considerable effort reworking existing encounters to make no difference at all. There is literally no positive outcome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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