Immersion: What Guild Wars 2 Needs

[Kingkiller.9645]

> @Arkantos.7460 said:

> I didnt read anything of class balance ..... rly

> then i guess, plz more mount skins , you can set them a bit more expensive, the last one were quite to cheap

 

I didn't mention anything about class balance because this is a thread about immersion. Lots of people want class balance, and I'm sure Anet will eventually get to it.

As for mount skins... eh, 400 gems for some of the ones without animation, just the ones that allow a 4-dye channel? Plus randomized? I really can't say that that's cheap.

[Kingkiller.9645]

> @Noa.7490 said:

> Nights. When Anet first spoke of introducing a day/night cycle, back when the game was in development, I was thrilled but unfortunately it's a feature that sort of falls flat because nights never fell like nights, more like seven o'clock in summer. Perhaps a change in hue (blue) would make things more believable?

>

> Weapons. Why can't our characters have weapons scabbards? Kinda of silly to see greatswords, longbows or staffs "magically" hanging on our backs with nothing to hold it. Or any other weapon for that matter.

>

 

Do you know the Darker Nights mod in Skyrim? Makes the nights pitch black. Which is really, significantly more accurate than what games do. I grew up in the country. If the sky is cloudy, it is pitch black. If there are stars out, you can see, but even on the brightest nights, with a full moon and stars and vivid northern lights, it is still much darker than what's in games. People should be saying "oh, it's getting to be night, maybe I should have someone with me or get out of this extremely dangerous area". It's pretty clear that the devs grew up in areas with so much light polution, there's no difference between night and day, because there really isn't in the game. I often don't even notice that it's night or day out.

 

There's a bug right now (not sure if it's fixed) where both equipped weapon sets are displayed sheathed on a person. Every thread about this has people saying "PLEASE LET US DO THIS", and I've seen it in game and it honestly looks amazing. I would LOVE for this to happen. The main reason I didn't mention it is because it IS a current bug and threads ARE mentioning it and getting excited over it.

Sheaths would be great too, but with the amount of time your character has their weapon unsheathed for no real reason, I don't feel like Anet would do them. I mean, when was the last time you had a piece of story that didn't involve killing? I'd like some story content where you have to solve a riddle or something. Some of the mastery points in PoF took the right step here... but it's not enough.

[Kingkiller.9645]

> @Vayne.8563 said:

> > @Kingkiller.9645 said:

> > > @Vavume.8065 said:

> > > This game will never be truly immersive such as games like WoW for example, because this game is covered in waypoints and loading screens, and those things are here to stay. I gave up on hoping for immersion with this game a long time ago, and just think of it as the MMO version of C.O.D, in that you basically load up a map and go.

> >

> > I mean, I would play WoW in a heartbeat if I didn't have to pay 15$/month for it. I'm a student. I can't afford that. Even if I could, I have a hard time believing that it could be worth it. Especially since I don't play a game for 8 hours a day, every day.

>

> And yet I find dynamic events more immersive than the WoW quest hub system, by a long long long shot and could never play that type of game again. It feels like crap to me. Sure I can't sit in a chair. But so much more here is voiced and so much more here isn't reading a wall of text and so much more here actually changes as I'm changing it, even if that change is temporary. Static quest hubs are, to me, a thing I can do without. All the immersion on this list, if it were all fixed, but dynamic events were replaced by static quests, would be a deal breaker for me, even if WoW were free to play.

 

I mean, I've never played WoW, so I didn't know this. I played for like 4 hours.

I like static quests, but I also feel like dynamic quests are required. Static quests are mainly a single player game kind of thing.

I do like dynamic quests.

I just want them to be longer. I would absolutely love it if there WERE static quests that lasted hours, and depending on how well you did the quest, they went a number of different ways (like running off the track to avoid a horde of dragon minions).

 

I like the current quest system. I just want it to be more immersive.

[Noa.7490]

> @Kingkiller.9645 said:

Do you know the Darker Nights mod in Skyrim? Makes the nights pitch black. Which is really, significantly more accurate than what games do. I grew up in the country. If the sky is cloudy, it is pitch black. If there are stars out, you can see, but even on the brightest nights, with a full moon and stars and vivid northern lights, it is still much darker than what's in games. People should be saying "oh, it's getting to be night, maybe I should have someone with me or get out of this extremely dangerous area". It's pretty clear that the devs grew up in areas with so much light polution, there's no difference between night and day, because there really isn't in the game. I often don't even notice that it's night or day out.

>

 

Yup. I'm using such a mod in Fallout 4 where you can't see much during the night. I did a lot of camping years ago in nature and by that I mean just a tent and basic necessities. It was so dark at night that I could put my hand in front of my face and not see it. It was a bit different under a full moon but still. The perception of night is a bit better in PoF than in Core or HoT, both of which could use an "upgrade".

 

[hugo.4705]

Great ideas you have there! But as peoples mentioned, they are two "problems": Funds of course, can't create without money, and the time to do it, and as RP things, immersion aren't a priority as I should say they said "A world where all actions depends on yours, the world around you change everytime" A very bad pun, they prefer working on living story/expensions/mounts and I can't blame them.

[Xillllix.3485]

Just having dungeons, caves, city interiors and more indoors area to explore would help a lot on the side of immersion. Things like Fractals, where the dungeons are not placed on the world map, break the immersion.

 

Making a bridge between PvP, WvW and PvE would also help immersion.

 

WvW sides could own bonuses on part of the world map that belongs to their main city, open world pvp and duel could be optional and contribute to the WvW score. PvP items could drop in the PvE world when doing PvP duels or "quests".

 

Open world GvG on special map instances...

[DeanBB.4268]

We have both kinds of quests: The personal story is your extended quest line. It takes you to far off lands and lets you make choices along the way.

 

And really, if you go up to the "heart person" you will get your quest instructions, just as if they had a ! above their heads. What's really different about the dynamic aspect? And some events take you across a map as you escort a merchant or whatever. Let the people who want to blow thru hearts and events do so, while others take their time and speak to everyone, if that's their choice. The game supports both styles.

 

Most of the OP suggestions I can do without. While I can appreciate the RP aspects, isn't part of that using your imagination? I know when I've RP'd in-game, the game itself never got in the way.

 

Gossip... I don't know how that could work. Divinity's Reach remains mostly static in time while the world/story goes on. Should a new level 5 be hearing about events in the Jungle or Desert, or even latter events taking place in their city? Should a new level 5 discover that a certain NPC in Hoelbrak is dead, when they will be encountering them still in their personal story? I don't think so.

[Embered.5089]

> @Kingkiller.9645 said:

> I want to live in Tyria.

Okay. Just so long as you remember that there's an Earth, too.

 

[Raven.1524]

> @Abelisk.4527 said:

> These are okay I guess but the real immersion breakers are the huge unusually straight walls tracing every single map's border

 

Those walls exist to protect us from the titans.. oh wait... wrong story :confused:

[Aryan Arlande.6184]

> @YoukiNeko.6047 said:

> While we are it I would want removing of all soul-bound and account bound equipment. Everything single item in the game should be treated like the white/junk items.

> And maybe Open world PvP so we can have PK (bandit) guilds. And looting players you've killed players. No item should be safe unless it is in the bank.

> And limiting the guilds a player can be in to 1.

> And removing instanced contents. If you are doing a raid PKs should be able to come and kill you, so you better hire guards to keep you safe.

 

Yeah, and to make it perfect, we need a big gallow-tree, just for hanging busted player-killers upside down, which means, this single bandit-char of you will be deleted in reality.

 

Just for the immersion, you know.

 

Action should have a really feedback, there is no free lunch - nor free murder and robbery

 

 

 

 

[Erasculio.2914]

> @Kingkiller.9645 said:

> I mean, they can still sell this stuff. Have an expansion that has new maps, absolutely, has new content, absolutely.

> With Heart of Thorns, gliders and specializations came. With Path of Fire, mounts and more specializations came.

> With the next expansion, will they add another revolutionary thing? I feel like just adding more mounts would accomplish that.

 

Nah. Mounts would be just more of the same. The "revolutionary thing" needs to be something new to the game, and something they can monetize (like glider skins and mount skins).

 

You may get your wish if ArenaNet's big innovation for the next expansion were player housing. It's something they could easily monetize (sell better houses and furniture in the Gem Store, give us in game only a shack with fragile-looking wood furniture), and then they would have a real incentive to add animations for sitting and interacting with objects, even if limited only to the house instance.

[Ayakaru.6583]

1. You cant see your weapon?

im seeing it constantly. I dont like 1st person mode because i constantly see the weapons on my back when sheathed

[mercury ranique.2170]

Immersion is a dangerous term and I think it is not the right motivation for these suggestions.

The GW2 world is not real. Immersion is how easy it is to feel it as real as possible. This also means there is a lack of immersion. People often blame this lack on the storyteller, but often it is also the person who is experiencing who fails.

 

Your suggestions are excellent for role playing, but I don't see them add to the immersion itself. I don't think being able to sit on a specific chair makes such a difference at all.

[Biff.5312]

I can see the appeal of a lot of these ideas, but they'll never happen. It might be nice once in a while to sit back and look at scenery, etc., but most of the time the vast majority of players will not want to take 15 minutes on an airship to get someplace, etc. There's simply no demand for this stuff. If they made these sweeping changes, it would likely appeal to less than 1% of their customers.

[Kingkiller.9645]

> @hugo.4705 said:

> Great ideas you have there! But as peoples mentioned, they are two "problems": Funds of course, can't create without money, and the time to do it, and as RP things, immersion aren't a priority as I should say they said "A world where all actions depends on yours, the world around you change everytime" A very bad pun, they prefer working on living story/expensions/mounts and I can't blame them.

 

Well, a lot of the things mentioned wouldn't actually be that hard.

I mean, first person view on mounts (as long as you can see the mount's head). Imagine diving on a Griffon, and you can see the Griffon's head. First person. That would be absolutely amazing, and all it needs it an update to the current first person.

Putting you at the exit of an asura gate or at the entrance you actually went through when entering Lion's Arch for the first time.

Lore books are literally just a picture of some old parchment and words on them. Maybe a small animation for page flipping, or maybe the words magically fade out and in with a golden glimmer as you turn the page. The only requirement there is the time to actually write the stuff.

 

Yeah, some of this stuff isn't very realistic. I'm not really expecting them to add another safe zone city. I think it would be amazing, but I don't expect it.

But a lot of this stuff really isn't all that difficult.

[Kingkiller.9645]

> @Xillllix.3485 said:

> Just having dungeons, caves, city interiors and more indoors area to explore would help a lot on the side of immersion. Things like Fractals, where the dungeons are not placed on the world map, break the immersion.

 

I'm going to have to argue that one, actually. WvW and Fractals take place in the mists, which is a real place in the lore, but it's on another plane of existence, so not having them on the same map and not having a physical "bridge" makes sense. There are asura gates to WvW, which makes sense as well, since if anyone could figure out how to create a fracture between worlds, it's the asura.

[Kingkiller.9645]

> @Embered.5089 said:

> Okay. Just so long as you remember that there's an Earth, too.

>

 

I could take it or leave it, honestly.

[Kingkiller.9645]

> @Erasculio.2914 said:

> > @Kingkiller.9645 said:

> > I mean, they can still sell this stuff. Have an expansion that has new maps, absolutely, has new content, absolutely.

> > With Heart of Thorns, gliders and specializations came. With Path of Fire, mounts and more specializations came.

> > With the next expansion, will they add another revolutionary thing? I feel like just adding more mounts would accomplish that.

>

> Nah. Mounts would be just more of the same. The "revolutionary thing" needs to be something new to the game, and something they can monetize (like glider skins and mount skins).

>

> You may get your wish if ArenaNet's big innovation for the next expansion were player housing. It's something they could easily monetize (sell better houses and furniture in the Gem Store, give us in game only a shack with fragile-looking wood furniture), and then they would have a real incentive to add animations for sitting and interacting with objects, even if limited only to the house instance.

 

We kind of already have player housing, and with them adding nodes to the home instance, I can't really see them going further than that. I mean, who wants to sit alone in their home instance?

If it's a tavern, there's socialization, but just sitting in a home instance that only you can access? And I don't see them adding player housing outside of both guild halls AND the home instance.

[Kingkiller.9645]

> @Ayakaru.6583 said:

> 1. You cant see your weapon?

> im seeing it constantly. I dont like 1st person mode because i constantly see the weapons on my back when sheathed

 

Nope. I don't see anything, actually.

 

The one time I do is when I'm gliding on my sheet music glider - then I see the harp. But only the harp, just floating in mid-air. If I look down or around, it will follow where my hands would be (except... outwards a bit).

[Kingkiller.9645]

> @DeanBB.4268 said:

> We have both kinds of quests: The personal story is your extended quest line. It takes you to far off lands and lets you make choices along the way.

>

> And really, if you go up to the "heart person" you will get your quest instructions, just as if they had a ! above their heads. What's really different about the dynamic aspect? And some events take you across a map as you escort a merchant or whatever. Let the people who want to blow thru hearts and events do so, while others take their time and speak to everyone, if that's their choice. The game supports both styles.

>

> Most of the OP suggestions I can do without. While I can appreciate the RP aspects, isn't part of that using your imagination? I know when I've RP'd in-game, the game itself never got in the way.

>

> Gossip... I don't know how that could work. Divinity's Reach remains mostly static in time while the world/story goes on. Should a new level 5 be hearing about events in the Jungle or Desert, or even latter events taking place in their city? Should a new level 5 discover that a certain NPC in Hoelbrak is dead, when they will be encountering them still in their personal story? I don't think so.

 

Hearts are quests, but not the long-term quests that I'm talking about.

The player story is a player story, not a quest. It's also not very repetitive. Sure, you can repeat it, but aside from the achievements, why would anyone want to?

I'm talking like long term escourt missions. It's not about "do I want dynamic or static", it's about "how long do I want these quests to be".

 

Gossip would work. The game already breaks timelines - people hear about events in the Crystal Desert and Jungle already through a variety of means.

Just leave major deaths out of it, but current events work fine.

There's a lot you can do without spoiling the story.

 

If I want to use my imagination, I will read a book. Games are different. They place you in a story and form everything for you. But if a game has no RP aspects to it, there's only so far you can go to change that.

I walk everywhere. I try to avoid WPs unless I absolutely need them. But that's about as far as immersion will take me. I can't "imagine" being in a tavern and talking with people who are also in a tavern. I can't "imagine" people gossiping. I can't "imagine" a 6-map escourt mission. It just doesn't work.

 

There's a difference between RPing in a game and being immersed in a game. I don't want to track down an RP guild whenever I want to feel immersed. I just want to be immersed in the story and explore and enjoy the world on my own. Maybe I'll meet strangers in a tavern. Maybe I'll hear gossip. But it won't be planned, it won't be with a specific group of people, it will flow naturally.

That's what I want.

[Kingkiller.9645]

> @Biff.5312 said:

> I can see the appeal of a lot of these ideas, but they'll never happen. It might be nice once in a while to sit back and look at scenery, etc., but most of the time the vast majority of players will not want to take 15 minutes on an airship to get someplace, etc. There's simply no demand for this stuff. If they made these sweeping changes, it would likely appeal to less than 1% of their customers.

 

Well people wouldn't be forced to take the 15 minute airship ride.

I'm pretty sure that number is over 1%.

But really, most of this stuff isn't asking a lot.

The airship part isn't even asking a lot - riding in the cloud cover, have the map load in the background, you can't see anything until you land. It's just a mists effect until you arrive, and then it's basically what happened at the start of PoF.

[Kingkiller.9645]

> @"mercury ranique.2170" said:

> Immersion is a dangerous term and I think it is not the right motivation for these suggestions.

> The GW2 world is not real. Immersion is how easy it is to feel it as real as possible. This also means there is a lack of immersion. People often blame this lack on the storyteller, but often it is also the person who is experiencing who fails.

>

> Your suggestions are excellent for role playing, but I don't see them add to the immersion itself. I don't think being able to sit on a specific chair makes such a difference at all.

 

I don't even like roleplaying, I just like feeling like I'm a part of the world.

Being able to cross the entire map without instant teleportation is extremely immersive.