Shadu.3701 Posted November 28, 2017 Share Posted November 28, 2017 I've been looking for mirage changes with the current patch that just released and it seems like the axe ambush projectiles no longer seek for a target after they have gone out. They only seek for a target at initial release, I have no idea if this was the same before.. I believe before it would go back to the target after the initial pass (hence the double hit?). The ones from clones are especially bugged where they initially don't even hit the target and then don't seek at all. There is no change noted in the patch notes for this I believe and the skill itself still says they should seek for a target. A guildie already tested this as well and he confirmed the same change, can others please test this as well and write their findings below? The dps difference because of this (and perhaps other changes) seems about a 8-10k dps loss? I have no idea if this is intended or not, but considering it isn't in the patch notes I would consider it a bug for now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burnfall.9573 Posted November 28, 2017 Share Posted November 28, 2017 > @Shadu.3701 said: > I've been looking for mirage changes with the current patch that just released and it seems like the axe ambush projectiles no longer seek for a target after they have gone out. They only seek for a target at initial release, I have no idea if this was the same before.. I believe before it would go back to the target after the initial pass (hence the double hit?). > The ones from clones are especially bugged where they initially don't even hit the target and then don't seek at all. > There is no change noted in the patch notes for this I believe and the skill itself still says they should seek for a target. > A guildie already tested this as well and he confirmed the same change, can others please test this as well and write their findings below? > > The dps difference because of this (and perhaps other changes) seems about a 8-10k dps loss? > > I have no idea if this is intended or not, but considering it isn't in the patch notes I would consider it a bug for now. https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/18097/11-28-release-mesmer-axe-bug-fix#latest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadu.3701 Posted November 28, 2017 Author Share Posted November 28, 2017 Ah thank you, would have made more sense to post that in the mesmer subforum as well from them.. This means that we are horrible dps again just like on release.. as the loss is too big, its on scourge/reaper level of dps now. Can't they do it properly instead of nerfing it hard nerf it to a good spot >.< Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FaboBabo.3581 Posted November 28, 2017 Share Posted November 28, 2017 So it should be following now ; you release 2 illusionary axes ; no enemy gets hit. The axes seek an enemy and both hit this enemy. 4 stacks of confusion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pyroatheist.9031 Posted November 28, 2017 Share Posted November 28, 2017 Iirc previous estimates were that this fix should reduce DPS by something like 4-5k. Can anyone actually confirm the numbers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadu.3701 Posted November 28, 2017 Author Share Posted November 28, 2017 > @FaboBabo.3581 said: > So it should be following now ; you release 2 illusionary axes ; no enemy gets hit. > > The axes seek an enemy and both hit this enemy. > > 4 stacks of confusion > > Yes, unless the moment you release them they instantly hit the enemy. If that is the case they will only seek for a different target, they won't go for the same one. Our dps had to be nerfed but I think from my initial testing they have gone too hard on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FaboBabo.3581 Posted November 28, 2017 Share Posted November 28, 2017 > @Shadu.3701 said: > Yes, unless the moment you release them they instantly hit the enemy. If that is the case they will only seek for a different target, they won't go for the same one. > That just seems weired... Can we please have an explainable Ability, and then readjust the Damage? Probably following ; Realsed Axes can hit Target A. Seeking Axes will prioritze target A after. Reduce Player Confusion Stacks to 1 again. So 4 Stacks of Confusion if all Parts hit, same as now, BUT the physical damage can now be applied 4 times instead of only 2. With the "Bug" we had physical attack hitting 4 times for a total of 8 stacks of confusion. Like Seriously ; If i stand in front of u, and throw 2 illusionary Axes right into ur Face, they should deal damage. Afterwards if there is no other enemy arround, those axes should seek you. What are they doing instead now ? Second part hits nothing, if first part hits? Can't play right now due to repeating Crash on Patch Day... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Levetty.1279 Posted November 28, 2017 Share Posted November 28, 2017 Do we get to go into every thread on the Necro board now and talk about how Anet hates mesmers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadu.3701 Posted November 28, 2017 Author Share Posted November 28, 2017 > @FaboBabo.3581 said: > > @Shadu.3701 said: > > Yes, unless the moment you release them they instantly hit the enemy. If that is the case they will only seek for a different target, they won't go for the same one. > > > > That just seems weired... > Can we please have an explainable Ability, and then readjust the Damage? > > Probably following ; Realsed Axes can hit Target A. Seeking Axes will prioritze target A after. Reduce Player Confusion Stacks to 1 again. > > So 4 Stacks of Confusion if all Parts hit, same as now, BUT the physical damage can now be applied 4 times instead of only 2. > > With the "Bug" we had physical attack hitting 4 times for a total of 8 stacks of confusion. > > Like Seriously ; If i stand in front of u, and throw 2 illusionary Axes right into ur Face, they should deal damage. Afterwards if there is no other enemy arround, those axes should seek you. > > What are they doing instead now ? Second part hits nothing, if first part hits? > Can't play right now due to repeating Crash on Patch Day... The projectiles that have already hit the target and don't have a second target to go for just fade away after reaching their max distance. This is the same for the axe clones projectiles btw but more unlikely to happen for them as they are often far away enough to proc the seeking to hit the target. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Levetty.1279 Posted November 28, 2017 Share Posted November 28, 2017 > @Pyroatheist.9031 said: > Iirc previous estimates were that this fix should reduce DPS by something like 4-5k. Can anyone actually confirm the numbers? People on reddit are saying it took the clone build down to 25k, maybe we should start claiming that Anet hates us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FaboBabo.3581 Posted November 28, 2017 Share Posted November 28, 2017 > @Levetty.1279 said: > > @Pyroatheist.9031 said: > > Iirc previous estimates were that this fix should reduce DPS by something like 4-5k. Can anyone actually confirm the numbers? > > People on reddit are saying it took the clone build down to 25k, maybe we should start claiming that Anet hates us. That would be 20k just from the bug. Tbh i dont believe this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Levetty.1279 Posted November 28, 2017 Share Posted November 28, 2017 15k but it does sound overly large. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pyroatheist.9031 Posted November 28, 2017 Share Posted November 28, 2017 Yeah, I'm not really in the habit of believing "that one dude claiming numbers on Reddit", so I'll hold my judgement until I see something a bit more reliable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Levetty.1279 Posted November 28, 2017 Share Posted November 28, 2017 > @Pyroatheist.9031 said: > Yeah, I'm not really in the habit of believing "that one dude claiming numbers on Reddit", so I'll hold my judgement until I see something a bit more reliable. Thats pretty much all DPS tests are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
intox.6347 Posted November 28, 2017 Share Posted November 28, 2017 > @Levetty.1279 said: > Do we get to go into every thread on the Necro board now and talk about how Anet hates mesmers? Make your own topics :) and also refresh your old boring chrono support build ... coz looks like ... anet think that mesmer cant be dps :D Same like scourge is heavy support :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NICENIKESHOE.7128 Posted November 28, 2017 Share Posted November 28, 2017 My guess would be 5-7k down but I'm not the best at that rotation. If all else fails phantasm build doesn't get impacted as much and should still remain as top dps but its playstyle is even more boring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kobeathris.3645 Posted November 28, 2017 Share Posted November 28, 2017 > @FaboBabo.3581 said: > > @Levetty.1279 said: > > > @Pyroatheist.9031 said: > > > Iirc previous estimates were that this fix should reduce DPS by something like 4-5k. Can anyone actually confirm the numbers? > > > > People on reddit are saying it took the clone build down to 25k, maybe we should start claiming that Anet hates us. > > That would be 20k just from the bug. Tbh i dont believe this Assuming everything always hit before, and assuming the axe was from mirrored axes was also hitting twice before, which I wasn't aware of, but the note seems to imply, that would be, per ambush, a loss of 4 stacks of confusion from the mesmer, 6 from the clones, plus 1 stack of torment from the mesmer, and 3 stacks from the clones, that's 9 hits from the clones, so another 4-5 stacks of bleeding from the clones from sharper images, plus 4 stacks of torment and 1-2 stacks of bleeding for every full auto chain. Assuming 100% condi duration, that's 40 seconds of confusion, 12 seconds of torment, and say 45 seconds of bleeding per ambush, if we assume about 185 damage per tic, that comes out to 17,945 damage per ambush, assuming you can dodge about once every 5 seconds or so, that's a loss of about 3,590 DPS, plus whatever is lost from the auto chain. That's assuming everything hits correctly now and something else didn't get broken. Please check my math. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AliamRationem.5172 Posted November 29, 2017 Share Posted November 29, 2017 > @Kobeathris.3645 said: > Assuming everything always hit before, and assuming the axe was from mirrored axes was also hitting twice before, which I wasn't aware of, but the note seems to imply, that would be, per ambush, a loss of 4 stacks of confusion from the mesmer, 6 from the clones, plus 1 stack of torment from the mesmer, and 3 stacks from the clones, that's 9 hits from the clones, so another 4-5 stacks of bleeding from the clones from sharper images, plus 4 stacks of torment and 1-2 stacks of bleeding for every full auto chain. > > Assuming 100% condi duration, that's 40 seconds of confusion, 12 seconds of torment, and say 45 seconds of bleeding per ambush, if we assume about 185 damage per tic, that comes out to 17,945 damage per ambush, assuming you can dodge about once every 5 seconds or so, that's a loss of about 3,590 DPS, plus whatever is lost from the auto chain. That's assuming everything hits correctly now and something else didn't get broken. Please check my math. I don't know about your math, but one ambush every 5 seconds seems like a questionable assumption to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SneakyTouchy.6043 Posted November 29, 2017 Share Posted November 29, 2017 So is axe the same as scepter now? They really aughta buff that one trait that adds confusion to ambush after a shatter. Shatter play is really lacking in PvE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kobeathris.3645 Posted November 29, 2017 Share Posted November 29, 2017 > @AliamRationem.5172 said: > > @Kobeathris.3645 said: > > Assuming everything always hit before, and assuming the axe was from mirrored axes was also hitting twice before, which I wasn't aware of, but the note seems to imply, that would be, per ambush, a loss of 4 stacks of confusion from the mesmer, 6 from the clones, plus 1 stack of torment from the mesmer, and 3 stacks from the clones, that's 9 hits from the clones, so another 4-5 stacks of bleeding from the clones from sharper images, plus 4 stacks of torment and 1-2 stacks of bleeding for every full auto chain. > > > > Assuming 100% condi duration, that's 40 seconds of confusion, 12 seconds of torment, and say 45 seconds of bleeding per ambush, if we assume about 185 damage per tic, that comes out to 17,945 damage per ambush, assuming you can dodge about once every 5 seconds or so, that's a loss of about 3,590 DPS, plus whatever is lost from the auto chain. That's assuming everything hits correctly now and something else didn't get broken. Please check my math. > > I don't know about your math, but one ambush every 5 seconds seems like a questionable assumption to me. > > What would be reasonable then? 1 every 4 seconds? With 100% vigor uptime, you get about 1 dodge every 7.25 seconds, then you get 1 from Crystal Sands about every 15 seconds, and 1 from False Oasis about every 19 seconds. I guess that is pretty close, so then 4,485 or so dps lost plus whatever is lost from the auto chain. I'm not comparing sigil of energy or dodge food because those require other tradeoffs, so it makes things murkier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kobeathris.3645 Posted November 29, 2017 Share Posted November 29, 2017 Something is totally bugged on the Golem, I just pulled 52,000 DPS with Power Mesmer on a Large Golem... I do not think that is right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NICENIKESHOE.7128 Posted November 29, 2017 Share Posted November 29, 2017 hmm did a bit of testing, hitting 30k on large and 25-26k on small golem. I'm not exactly good at the rotation but was able to maintain ambush every 4s or so with sigil of energy and mirrors. Sometimes even more frequent whenever clone's ambush aftercast is off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AliamRationem.5172 Posted November 29, 2017 Share Posted November 29, 2017 > @SneakyTouchy.6043 said: > So is axe the same as scepter now? > > They really aughta buff that one trait that adds confusion to ambush after a shatter. Shatter play is really lacking in PvE. That might not work out too well, since it shares the same tier with mirage's clone generation skill. You could take deceptive evasion, but this would be a DPS loss both from losing Superiority Complex and because burning endurance to generate clones is inefficient (less damage per ambush than burning endurance with 3 clones) and adds risk. If damage needs to be restored to the spec (I haven't tested it out yet), then I would say making infinite horizon baseline would be a good start. Without that requirement, clone ambush builds could take Dune Cloak to gain some of that damage back. I'm going to test it out for myself and then form an opinion. Questions: What do we replace IH with? How strong should clone ambush be? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NICENIKESHOE.7128 Posted November 29, 2017 Share Posted November 29, 2017 felt like they introduced some kind of bug to normal imaginary axe rather than just the trait Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoser.7245 Posted November 29, 2017 Share Posted November 29, 2017 The reports from my friends are that they've passed from 42k before patch to 26k now with the clone build and ~30.5k with the slow phantasm build. This is what happens with you insist in something and is fixed asap without been properly tested if it was!!! Now live with it. Even flooding the forums don't expect a buff better than what Scourge got. If confirmed: Mirage: ~~Fractal~~, ~~Raid~~ I still need to test it by myself but when the river sounds... Only an unexpected bug could save the Mirage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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