Nerf the mesmer already, the relentless clone spam is extremely overpowered.

[apharma.3741]

> @tartarus.1082 said:

> > @Hitman.5829 said:

> > Look at all these mesmers trying to make it sound like mesmer is ok and not OP. It will get nerfed and all of you know it.

>

> I'm pretty sure most of the thread comments agree with you. As a Mesmer I sure do.

>

> In fact both helseth and frostball said elusive mind should never be a trait and most vocal mesmers in the forum agree. If anet wont replace it I personally would like to see it get the same treatment as UC or at least get an icd.

>

> Moreover the condi burst potential is pretty toxic design. Most of the skills are instant cast and for the most part set up isn't even required, just precasts into jaunt. It sure isn't fun to face, and is just as boring to use.

>

> Also for the random power spike comment that always appears when someone talks about Mesmer bursts that isn't what people are concerned with atm. Mainly because power mes generally can't hit through passive procs such as warriors defy pain and engi shrink skill (not saying that it should either).

 

While what you put is true, most mesmers know what is over tuned and are vocal about these traits/skills being nerfed, there are some who honestly don’t think they’re overpowered and even advocated keeping the clone condi build for PvE that did 25% more damage than anything else.

 

The amount of confusion and torment coming out of mirage atm is far too much, mostly confusion really. Conditions were supposed to be damage over time but really most condition builds can down you as fast or faster than power spikes and they bypass a lot of auto procs.

[musu.9205]

> @OriOri.8724 said:

> > @Hitman.5829 said:

> > Look at all these mesmers trying to make it sound like mesmer is ok and not OP. It will get nerfed and all of you know it.

>

> You are referring to the same mesmers that are telling you exactly why EM is overpowered and should be nerfed, aren't you? Cause yea, that's definitely shows that we think mesmer is perfectly fine and all.

 

well many mesmer main would agree with that EM and maybe sword ambush should be looked at .

but as you can see this thread is filled with people who thought mes is anet fav , or whined about mirage pve dps being op in pvp , or believed that spellbreaker isn't op before balance patch .

it's hard for them to imagine someone with objective opinions .

 

though there are not much left for mirage without that two op things but we asked them to be nerfed anyway . what we got is insult from players like those who would still whine even if mesmer is trash tier . it's pointless to discuss what's wrong with mirage in this thread . it's a thread created to feed people who blindly hates mesmer .

just let them do whatever they want .

 

[Hitman.5829]

0 nerfs to the OP relentless clone spamming mesmer. Any of you surprised the mesmer got more buffs:

 

* Inspiring Distortion: This trait now grants 5 seconds of aegis instead of 1 second of distortion.

* Chaos Vortex: This skill now attempts to face the selected target before firing when it's targeted on foes beside or behind the caster.

* Ether Clone: Torment duration has been adjusted from 2 stacks for 5 seconds to 1 stack for 9 seconds.

* Portal Exeunt: This skill now performs a range check before activating to prevent unusable portals from being created.

* Arcane Thievery: In addition to its previous effects, successfully hitting a target now inflicts slow on the target for 4 seconds while granting quickness to the mesmer for the same duration.

* Mantra of Recovery: Healing has been increased by 25% when fully charged.

* Mantra of Pain: Increased might stacks from 8 to 12.

* Mantra of Concentration: This skill now grants quickness for 5 seconds when fully charged, in addition to its previous effects.

* Mantra of Resolve: This skill no longer grants resistance when fully charged. Instead, it now removes all conditions.

* Tides of Time: Improved the consistency of the returning wave in situations where the outgoing wave impacts walls or terrain.

* Imaginary Axes: Increased the confusion stacks applied by the player from 2 to 3. Increased the duration of confusion stacks applied by both the player and clones from 4 seconds to 5 seconds.

* Phantasmal Seeking Axe: Increased torment duration from 3 seconds to 4.5 seconds.

 

What is going on with the developers? Do they main mesmers?

[OriOri.8724]

> @"Hitman.5829" said:

> 0 nerfs to the OP relentless clone spamming mesmer. Any of you surprised the mesmer got more buffs:

>

> * Inspiring Distortion: This trait now grants 5 seconds of aegis instead of 1 second of distortion.

> * Chaos Vortex: This skill now attempts to face the selected target before firing when it's targeted on foes beside or behind the caster.

> * Ether Clone: Torment duration has been adjusted from 2 stacks for 5 seconds to 1 stack for 9 seconds.

> * Portal Exeunt: This skill now performs a range check before activating to prevent unusable portals from being created.

> * Arcane Thievery: In addition to its previous effects, successfully hitting a target now inflicts slow on the target for 4 seconds while granting quickness to the mesmer for the same duration.

> * Mantra of Recovery: Healing has been increased by 25% when fully charged.

> * Mantra of Pain: Increased might stacks from 8 to 12.

> * Mantra of Concentration: This skill now grants quickness for 5 seconds when fully charged, in addition to its previous effects.

> * Mantra of Resolve: This skill no longer grants resistance when fully charged. Instead, it now removes all conditions.

> * Tides of Time: Improved the consistency of the returning wave in situations where the outgoing wave impacts walls or terrain.

> * Imaginary Axes: Increased the confusion stacks applied by the player from 2 to 3. Increased the duration of confusion stacks applied by both the player and clones from 4 seconds to 5 seconds.

> * Phantasmal Seeking Axe: Increased torment duration from 3 seconds to 4.5 seconds.

>

> What is going on with the developers? Do they main mesmers?

 

Honestly what surprises me the most about mesmer changes is that its about the same number of changes to a class that we can expect from a regular, quarterly, balance patch, yet we were specifically told that this one would be a smaller one aimed mostly at the conditions. I'm surprised that 80% of these changes to mesmer came in this patch, and weren't pushed off to the next one (surprised, but not disappointed. We need faster balance patches, and happy to see changes coming to classes).

 

I was really hoping that EM would have been addressed this patch. Its strong enough to have justified doing so. Other than that though, these changes don't make mantras worth using, so outside of Mirage's axe, staff ambush and arcane thievery (buffs welcomed, but not what the skill needed. It was fine before, just needed to be more reliable) this didn't buff anything that you would see on someone's bar. I am confused as to why imaginary axes got another stack of confusion AND increased duration. To me that goes against what this patch was supposed to be, and I'm not happy about that.

[Pimsley.3681]

I love Mesmer, it was my first main. But even I am baffled with this update.

 

Not all Mesmers enjoy playing an unfairly OP spec. If you visit the Mesmer section, they gave out honest and unbiased feedback on balancing the profession.

[Apolo.5942]

Have to agree, Scourge might be op, but Mesmer and thief are toxic for the game.

[Shirlias.8104]

Didn't expect so many mesmer white knights.

[Furious.2867]

> @"Shirlias.8104" said:

> Didn't expect so many mesmer white knights.

 

Or they just love Hitman posts. Who doesn't? He's the best.

[Arheundel.6451]

> @"Hitman.5829" said:

> 0 nerfs to the OP relentless clone spamming mesmer. Any of you surprised the mesmer got more buffs:

>

> * Inspiring Distortion: This trait now grants 5 seconds of aegis instead of 1 second of distortion.

> * Chaos Vortex: This skill now attempts to face the selected target before firing when it's targeted on foes beside or behind the caster.

> * Ether Clone: Torment duration has been adjusted from 2 stacks for 5 seconds to 1 stack for 9 seconds.

> * Portal Exeunt: This skill now performs a range check before activating to prevent unusable portals from being created.

> * Arcane Thievery: In addition to its previous effects, successfully hitting a target now inflicts slow on the target for 4 seconds while granting quickness to the mesmer for the same duration.

> * Mantra of Recovery: Healing has been increased by 25% when fully charged.

> * Mantra of Pain: Increased might stacks from 8 to 12.

> * Mantra of Concentration: This skill now grants quickness for 5 seconds when fully charged, in addition to its previous effects.

> * Mantra of Resolve: This skill no longer grants resistance when fully charged. Instead, it now removes all conditions.

> * Tides of Time: Improved the consistency of the returning wave in situations where the outgoing wave impacts walls or terrain.

> * Imaginary Axes: Increased the confusion stacks applied by the player from 2 to 3. Increased the duration of confusion stacks applied by both the player and clones from 4 seconds to 5 seconds.

> * Phantasmal Seeking Axe: Increased torment duration from 3 seconds to 4.5 seconds.

>

> What is going on with the developers? Do they main mesmers?

 

One of the balance devs specifically plays Mesmer as main...

[rank eleven monk.9502]

> @"Arheundel.6451" said:

> > @"Hitman.5829" said:

> > 0 nerfs to the OP relentless clone spamming mesmer. Any of you surprised the mesmer got more buffs:

> >

> > * Inspiring Distortion: This trait now grants 5 seconds of aegis instead of 1 second of distortion.

> > * Chaos Vortex: This skill now attempts to face the selected target before firing when it's targeted on foes beside or behind the caster.

> > * Ether Clone: Torment duration has been adjusted from 2 stacks for 5 seconds to 1 stack for 9 seconds.

> > * Portal Exeunt: This skill now performs a range check before activating to prevent unusable portals from being created.

> > * Arcane Thievery: In addition to its previous effects, successfully hitting a target now inflicts slow on the target for 4 seconds while granting quickness to the mesmer for the same duration.

> > * Mantra of Recovery: Healing has been increased by 25% when fully charged.

> > * Mantra of Pain: Increased might stacks from 8 to 12.

> > * Mantra of Concentration: This skill now grants quickness for 5 seconds when fully charged, in addition to its previous effects.

> > * Mantra of Resolve: This skill no longer grants resistance when fully charged. Instead, it now removes all conditions.

> > * Tides of Time: Improved the consistency of the returning wave in situations where the outgoing wave impacts walls or terrain.

> > * Imaginary Axes: Increased the confusion stacks applied by the player from 2 to 3. Increased the duration of confusion stacks applied by both the player and clones from 4 seconds to 5 seconds.

> > * Phantasmal Seeking Axe: Increased torment duration from 3 seconds to 4.5 seconds.

> >

> > What is going on with the developers? Do they main mesmers?

>

> One of the balance devs specifically plays Mesmer as main...

Love to see people jumping on the buffs without realizing none of these skills or traits are used in pvp.

 

At the same time, it surprised me that conditions on mesmer did not get a nerf in this patch

[Pridedemon.3041]

I am playing this game since day 1 and i have all of the professions manually leveled to 80 (without any boosts) so i can honestly say that mesmer is THE MOST DIFFICULT class to master.

If someone can play mesmer really well and can beat you over and over then instead of raging just accept that he is better then you. Back in one of the seasons mesmer was really good and i tried playing it in structured pvp and needless to say i got completely owned. This profession has the highest skill cap closely followed by engineer.

I am just returning to gw2 after a year or so break so i don't know what current situation is for various classes but i am far happier to stick to my mains for pvp, i.e. ele and druid.

[Seyiwaji.4082]

Instead of nerf mesmers trolling post, maybe buffs some people brain?

[OriOri.8724]

> @"Pimsley.3681" said:

> I love Mesmer, it was my first main. But even I am baffled with this update.

>

> Not all Mesmers enjoy playing an unfairly OP spec. If you visit the Mesmer section, they gave out honest and unbiased feedback on balancing the profession.

 

The people that complain the loudest about mesmer rarely, if ever, visit the mesmer forums in order to see what real mesmer mains are saying about specs. And never realize that we agree when something is overperforming.

[Rodzynald.5897]

Even though I very much dislike the idea of constant evasion, blind and invulnerability + lots of CC, mesmer is a piece of paper in the wind that can be blown away... but you have to touch it first.

I would rather prefer for them to have many % of damage reduction isntead of complete mitigation. I don't mind the clone spam, but it's hard to dodge all shatters with just two dodges right now. Blocks do not work out, they can be randomly taken out by some fart, following a shatter burst. On top of that there are lots of blinds and hard CC. Mirages should be evasive alright, I can go with that. Let them be mobile and let them evade damage, but I would be less concerned if there wasn't a daze every shatter and so many blind spams. Not only we have to try to dodge and defend ourselves, there is hardly any chance to land a significant attack.

The idea of mirage is good, but there is too much of it at once. Either defensive evasion and mobility, or huge peeling and damage. That would be kinda nice if mirages were invulnerable 99% of the time but had mosquito bites, working more like disruptors of the flow of combat instead of melting down everything while being invulnerable at the same time.

You don't need sustain or healing if you don't get damaged in the first place, at least PvE devs got that right. If mirages had the healing, we would be back to chronobunker kind of meta.

[apharma.3741]

> @"OriOri.8724" said:

> > @"Pimsley.3681" said:

> > I love Mesmer, it was my first main. But even I am baffled with this update.

> >

> > Not all Mesmers enjoy playing an unfairly OP spec. If you visit the Mesmer section, they gave out honest and unbiased feedback on balancing the profession.

>

> The people that complain the loudest about mesmer rarely, if ever, visit the mesmer forums in order to see what real mesmer mains are saying about specs. And never realize that we agree when something is overperforming.

 

Not always, some people still advocate that the clone dps build was fine, you know the one that did 20% or more damage than everything else on one of the simplest rotations even a trained monkey should be able to execute it well.

[OriOri.8724]

> @"apharma.3741" said:

> > @"OriOri.8724" said:

> > > @"Pimsley.3681" said:

> > > I love Mesmer, it was my first main. But even I am baffled with this update.

> > >

> > > Not all Mesmers enjoy playing an unfairly OP spec. If you visit the Mesmer section, they gave out honest and unbiased feedback on balancing the profession.

> >

> > The people that complain the loudest about mesmer rarely, if ever, visit the mesmer forums in order to see what real mesmer mains are saying about specs. And never realize that we agree when something is overperforming.

>

> Not always, some people still advocate that the clone dps build was fine, you know the one that did 20% or more damage than everything else on one of the simplest rotations even a trained monkey should be able to execute it well.

 

Yes well no one takes them seriously. There will always be people that want to see their class broken beyond belief. But the majority of mesmers are rational people that admit when something is overperforming and needs to be addressed.

[Arcaedus.7290]

This post is coming from a guy who defended SB as balanced and good for pvp by the skin of his teeth up until its inevitable nerf. On the other hand though, it's pretty funny now to see some of the people defending mirage echoing the same things that Hitman and other biased warr mains said merely a month back.

 

"It's necessary for the mirage to be viable at all."

"If you nerf X, may as well delete mirage."

"Problem is no one skill is that OP, how do you nerf their damage?"

"Lol just l2p and dodge obvious tells."

[Ithilwen.1529]

The fact that someone lost to a Mesmer doesn't make the class OP.

[Furious.2867]

Hitman should try to be less obvious. At the same time, his self-serving fictional posts are always entertaining to read.

[OriOri.8724]

> @"Arcaedus.7290" said:

> This post is coming from a guy who defended SB as balanced and good for pvp by the skin of his teeth up until its inevitable nerf. On the other hand though, it's pretty funny now to see some of the people defending mirage echoing the same things that Hitman and other biased warr mains said merely a month back.

>

> "It's necessary for the mirage to be viable at all."

> "If you nerf X, may as well delete mirage."

> "Problem is no one skill is that OP, how do you nerf their damage?"

> "Lol just l2p and dodge obvious tells."

 

You forgot the part where now warrior is literally below trash tier. Has no mobility, is the only class that can't deal with unblockable attacks, struggles with conditions too much, can't land anything, can't deal with blind, etc etc etc

[Arcaedus.7290]

> @"OriOri.8724" said:

> You forgot the part where now warrior is literally below trash tier. Has no mobility, is the only class that can't deal with unblockable attacks, struggles with conditions too much, can't land anything, can't deal with blind, etc etc etc

 

It has average mobility, guard is far worse at dealing with unblockables than warr, this part is true (core warr resistance nerfs were a bit heavy handed), they can easily land bursts if they don't faceroll, they can deal with it through resistance.

 

[apharma.3741]

> @"Arcaedus.7290" said:

> > @"OriOri.8724" said:

> > You forgot the part where now warrior is literally below trash tier. Has no mobility, is the only class that can't deal with unblockable attacks, struggles with conditions too much, can't land anything, can't deal with blind, etc etc etc

>

> It has average mobility, guard is far worse at dealing with unblockables than warr, this part is true (core warr resistance nerfs were a bit heavy handed), they can easily land bursts if they don't faceroll, they can deal with it through resistance.

>

 

I suspect it was sarcasm from Ori, just a heads up.

[flog.3485]

Imaginary Axes and Phantasmal Seeking Axe: why weren't these buffs made PvE only ? I mean these buffs are obviously good but if I recall correctly, they already had been able to to increase sword 2 damages for PvE only in the past.

[Vaeo.4097]

> @"Nuka Cola.8520" said:

> Remove stun break on dodge and daze on sword ambush. Rest is fine.

>

> With the mobility and evades, the sword is already insanely powerful. But with constant cc spam, the weapon is on another level. I mean, if they don't do anything, cool, i'll use it permanently...

 

I don't think Mirage is ok now. But I totally disagree with hasty suggestions like "nerf Illusive Mind" or "halve confusion stacks Mirage applies" . I'll try to explain my point.

 

Let's start from pre PoF moment (season 8 before September 22).

What was Chronomancer's role that time? Roamer and duelist. He has enough mobility to cap side nodes and enough sustain to keep it. He could keep point 1v1 forever,

Then we got PoF and Mirage.

 

What's Mirage team role now? I don't know.

Yes, he can duel 1v1 against almost any class except Spellbreaker. But mobility is the weak spot. He desperately lacks +25% movement speed. And sword ambush can't compensate this on larger maps like Coliseum or Temple. Not even speaking that sword ambush spends endurance and entering combat without endurance is a bit risky.

Also Mirage is forced to use stealth heavily. So he can't prevent point decap long enough.

So Mirage now is the pure dps class, it's just another variant of Scourge -- high dps but low mobility and sustain. Mirage is not a roamer like Chronomancer.

 

That's it. I don't like current Mirage state. But the key problem -- Mirage has no clear team role.

So talking about nerfing Mirage here and there is incorrect. First of all we need to decide which team role it plays and adapt his traits accordingly.

I personally think it should be the same role as for Chronomancer because we already have enough teamfight dps classes.

 

P.S.

About original post is this thread -- it's just a trolling or bad joke.

[Hitman.5829]

> @"Arheundel.6451" said:

> > @"Hitman.5829" said:

> > 0 nerfs to the OP relentless clone spamming mesmer. Any of you surprised the mesmer got more buffs:

> >

> > * Inspiring Distortion: This trait now grants 5 seconds of aegis instead of 1 second of distortion.

> > * Chaos Vortex: This skill now attempts to face the selected target before firing when it's targeted on foes beside or behind the caster.

> > * Ether Clone: Torment duration has been adjusted from 2 stacks for 5 seconds to 1 stack for 9 seconds.

> > * Portal Exeunt: This skill now performs a range check before activating to prevent unusable portals from being created.

> > * Arcane Thievery: In addition to its previous effects, successfully hitting a target now inflicts slow on the target for 4 seconds while granting quickness to the mesmer for the same duration.

> > * Mantra of Recovery: Healing has been increased by 25% when fully charged.

> > * Mantra of Pain: Increased might stacks from 8 to 12.

> > * Mantra of Concentration: This skill now grants quickness for 5 seconds when fully charged, in addition to its previous effects.

> > * Mantra of Resolve: This skill no longer grants resistance when fully charged. Instead, it now removes all conditions.

> > * Tides of Time: Improved the consistency of the returning wave in situations where the outgoing wave impacts walls or terrain.

> > * Imaginary Axes: Increased the confusion stacks applied by the player from 2 to 3. Increased the duration of confusion stacks applied by both the player and clones from 4 seconds to 5 seconds.

> > * Phantasmal Seeking Axe: Increased torment duration from 3 seconds to 4.5 seconds.

> >

> > What is going on with the developers? Do they main mesmers?

>

> One of the balance devs specifically plays Mesmer as main...

 

Well that should explain why mesmer is OP as hell.