Locking New Legendaries Behind Raids

[Deihnyx.6318]

I was watching a review about Cuphead being "too hard" the other day, with the conclusion being ultimately that because there are too many games today, people don't want to bother with challenging content and instead want to finish something as fast as possible to go play the next game or content.

 

It's what I feel the problem with raids are. The people who are complaining are simply not understanding the philosophy behind raids and think that because they paid for the game, every single part of that content must be readily available to them. Raids are about commitment in the first place, not going through them first try and barely noticing the mechanics, which an easy mode would most likely do.

 

It is available to everyone, but it isn't for everyone. If all you care about is getting different levels of difficulties, or the final legendary rewards, I claim that you do not belong to raids, because you do not agree with the "spirit of raids"

 

And there's really nothing personal or offending in saying that, many people look for different things. That raids are a niche content isn't even relevant. PVP is a niche right now, WvW has a minority of players also, but they don't have to be twisted by this so called majority. This majority gets the large majority of content, it's all fair.

Either you adapt to the content, or you don't play it.

[Sorin Noroku.5342]

3,000 players in GW2RA, casual raiders with <50 li all the way to more dedicated players with >150 li. The new legendary ring's precursor can be gotten from killing ANY raid boss (escort and cairn and MO are INCREDIBLY easy to carry a few people), and then going to any instance that has killed the bosses and not yet been reopened of Hall of Chains. (IE they killed all the bosses, then never left it.) This means its HIGHLY possible for casual people who don't raid to get the precursor for this legendary ring, without being a very dedicated raider. Just need to find generous people or actually raid o,o.

[Tyson.5160]

> @"Deihnyx.6318" said:

>

> It is available to everyone, but it isn't for everyone. If all you care about is getting different levels of difficulties, or the final legendary rewards, I claim that you do not belong to raids, because you do not agree with the "spirit of raids"

>

This is a valid, however to some people Guild Wars 2 is their first mmo, and perhaps we have people who have this same spirit, but are finding it hard to get into the content, which I myself as well.

 

I know what dedication is, I used to play the beloved Everquest many moons ago for many many years, which is way more brutal and barbaric then these Raids be on the worst of days.

 

 

[zealex.9410]

> @"STIHL.2489" said:

> > @Coulter.2315 said:

> > > @STIHL.2489 said:

> > > > @Coulter.2315 said:

> > > > > @STIHL.2489 said:

> > > > > > @zoomborg.9462 said:

> > > > > > Lul freaking casuals complaining again. This topic has become a meme now, even Anet can't take the complaints srsly at this point.

> > > > >

> > > > > Yah.. Bet Anet can't wait for them to take a stand and walk away in disgust leaving only the real players to enjoy this game in peace.

> > > >

> > > > Open world got an exclusive trinket a few months ago, why do they need another exclusive item now?

> > >

> > > That was LS, not open world.

> >

> > You're being ridiculous.

>

> I always viewed LW as solo instance based content, not Open World, maybe that is what you all call Open world now, but, even so, last I looked anyone could do that content.. so it's hardly exclusive.

>

>

 

Then open world has been dead for years. Outside of expansions.

[Ze Dos Cavalos.6132]

I Want to get the mistforged armor but I cant get it because is locked behind wvw and I cant play wvw until I get to rank 2000..

Anet pls add the mistforged armor to a magic vendor or tequatl drop so I can get it too, don't give unique rewards to other game modes, let everyone in the game have all rewards.

 

[zealex.9410]

> @"Ze Dos Cavalos.6132" said:

> I Want to get the mistforged armor but I cant get it because is locked behind wvw and I cant play wvw until I get to rank 2000..

> Anet pls add the mistforged armor to a magic vendor or tequatl drop so I can get it too, don't give unique rewards to other game modes, let everyone in the game have all rewards.

>

 

Tbf you can play wvw before 2k rank but everyone will just kick u from their squad coz "REEEEEE pve scrub go back to your pve REEEEEE"

[STIHL.2489]

> @"zealex.9410" said:

> > @"STIHL.2489" said:

> > > @Coulter.2315 said:

> > > > @STIHL.2489 said:

> > > > > @Coulter.2315 said:

> > > > > > @STIHL.2489 said:

> > > > > > > @zoomborg.9462 said:

> > > > > > > Lul freaking casuals complaining again. This topic has become a meme now, even Anet can't take the complaints srsly at this point.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Yah.. Bet Anet can't wait for them to take a stand and walk away in disgust leaving only the real players to enjoy this game in peace.

> > > > >

> > > > > Open world got an exclusive trinket a few months ago, why do they need another exclusive item now?

> > > >

> > > > That was LS, not open world.

> > >

> > > You're being ridiculous.

> >

> > I always viewed LW as solo instance based content, not Open World, maybe that is what you all call Open world now, but, even so, last I looked anyone could do that content.. so it's hardly exclusive.

> >

> >

>

> Then open world has been dead for years. Outside of expansions.

 

Just had a blast doing Teq.. guess we have different definitions of "dead"

[zealex.9410]

> @"STIHL.2489" said:

> > @"zealex.9410" said:

> > > @"STIHL.2489" said:

> > > > @Coulter.2315 said:

> > > > > @STIHL.2489 said:

> > > > > > @Coulter.2315 said:

> > > > > > > @STIHL.2489 said:

> > > > > > > > @zoomborg.9462 said:

> > > > > > > > Lul freaking casuals complaining again. This topic has become a meme now, even Anet can't take the complaints srsly at this point.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Yah.. Bet Anet can't wait for them to take a stand and walk away in disgust leaving only the real players to enjoy this game in peace.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Open world got an exclusive trinket a few months ago, why do they need another exclusive item now?

> > > > >

> > > > > That was LS, not open world.

> > > >

> > > > You're being ridiculous.

> > >

> > > I always viewed LW as solo instance based content, not Open World, maybe that is what you all call Open world now, but, even so, last I looked anyone could do that content.. so it's hardly exclusive.

> > >

> > >

> >

> > Then open world has been dead for years. Outside of expansions.

>

> Just had a blast doing Teq.. guess we have different definitions of "dead"

 

Nah world bosses are part of the open world but there hasnt been a new world boss in years so idk. And how are the map events in every lw map solo content? When multiple ppl can do them together and be rewarded. Story sure s solo content. But lw doesnt only bring story.

[STIHL.2489]

> @"zealex.9410" said:

> > @"STIHL.2489" said:

> > > @"zealex.9410" said:

> > > > @"STIHL.2489" said:

> > > > > @Coulter.2315 said:

> > > > > > @STIHL.2489 said:

> > > > > > > @Coulter.2315 said:

> > > > > > > > @STIHL.2489 said:

> > > > > > > > > @zoomborg.9462 said:

> > > > > > > > > Lul freaking casuals complaining again. This topic has become a meme now, even Anet can't take the complaints srsly at this point.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Yah.. Bet Anet can't wait for them to take a stand and walk away in disgust leaving only the real players to enjoy this game in peace.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Open world got an exclusive trinket a few months ago, why do they need another exclusive item now?

> > > > > >

> > > > > > That was LS, not open world.

> > > > >

> > > > > You're being ridiculous.

> > > >

> > > > I always viewed LW as solo instance based content, not Open World, maybe that is what you all call Open world now, but, even so, last I looked anyone could do that content.. so it's hardly exclusive.

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > Then open world has been dead for years. Outside of expansions.

> >

> > Just had a blast doing Teq.. guess we have different definitions of "dead"

>

> Nah world bosses are part of the open world but there hasnt been a new world boss in years so idk. And how are the map events in every lw map solo content? When multiple ppl can do them together and be rewarded. Story sure s solo content. But lw doesnt only bring story.

 

AFIK, only LW3 has open maps, and I don't have that chapter..because HoT sucked so bad, I had to stop playing for a while.

[Astralporing.1957]

> @"Sorin Noroku.5342" said:

> 3,000 players in GW2RA, casual raiders with <50 li all the way to more dedicated players with >150 li. The new legendary ring's precursor can be gotten from killing ANY raid boss (escort and cairn and MO are INCREDIBLY easy to carry a few people), and then going to any instance that has killed the bosses and not yet been reopened of Hall of Chains. (IE they killed all the bosses, then never left it.) This means its HIGHLY possible for casual people who don't raid to get the precursor for this legendary ring, without being a very dedicated raider. Just need to find generous people or actually raid o,o.

As clarified by Anet devs, it's not so. You _have_ to kill Dhuum to finish the collection, which makes it so that it will be highly difficult even for many raiders. Non-raiders are right out at this point.

 

 

[Feanor.2358]

> @"Astralporing.1957" said:

> > @"Sorin Noroku.5342" said:

> > 3,000 players in GW2RA, casual raiders with <50 li all the way to more dedicated players with >150 li. The new legendary ring's precursor can be gotten from killing ANY raid boss (escort and cairn and MO are INCREDIBLY easy to carry a few people), and then going to any instance that has killed the bosses and not yet been reopened of Hall of Chains. (IE they killed all the bosses, then never left it.) This means its HIGHLY possible for casual people who don't raid to get the precursor for this legendary ring, without being a very dedicated raider. Just need to find generous people or actually raid o,o.

> As clarified by Anet devs, it's not so. You _have_ to kill Dhuum to finish the collection, which makes it so that it will be highly difficult even for many raiders. Non-raiders are right out at this point.

>

>

 

You know many people will just buy the kills, right? It will be only inaccessible if they make you grind Dhuum over and over again in order to finish the collection.

That being said, what's the problem with a particular item being inaccessible to some players? Sublime Misforged says "hi". And if you're going to resort to "functionality" argument again, rest assured they'll add alternative ways to get the same functionality. PvP/WvW legendary armors set a precedent already, the devs will do the same.

[Raguel.9402]

> @"RaidsAreEasyAF.8652" said:

> > @Jukens.1693 said:

> > > @RaidsAreEasyAF.8652 said:

> > > > @Jukens.1693 said:

> > > > Raids are not available to everyone Anet, unlike Fractals, Open World, WvW and PvP. Whatever put in the raids won't incentivize me to run this content, they don't exist for me period. No instead it just pisses me off completely. There is no telling how many more legendaries Anet is going to put in there for the %1.

> > >

> > > Raids are available for those who bought HoT (Wing 1-4) or PoF (Wing 5).

> > > Also, can we please stop with this 1% kitten? No one but anet has actual numbers.

> > >

> >

> > It's not and never will be. Can we please stop with this kitten?

>

> It is available for everyone owning either of the expansions. You not wanting or being able to raid doesnt mean they arent there for you to play. You can play them anytime you want, you simply dont do it for whatever reason.

 

All content is "available" to everyone. And all content has it's "requirements". You can't just go into wvw with your open world pve build and expect to do something meaningful without turning into roamer fodder.

 

Same goes for fractals, pvp etc. You refusing to raid does not mean it's not "available" to you.

 

Or do you (The OP) feel you should be able to get WvW/PvP armor without actually committing to the game mode?

[Raguel.9402]

> @"thewaterguy.4796" said:

> > @zealex.9410 said:

> > > @Astralporing.1957 said:

> > > > @XMetroidfanX.3894 said:

> > > > Ugh, another one of these posts. Can you guys just let it go?

> > > No. Why would we? It's not like us not complaining will make things better. Ignoring problems never works out well.

> > >

> > >

> >

> > U can ignore it because its not a problem.

>

> I'm sorry what? Its not a problem? Forgive me but locking things off to players for arbitrary reasons of "not enough friends" is kind of a problem, and frankly your a part of the problem, the sheer elitism and toxicity coming out of the "Raiding" community is insane compared to any other section of the game, don't give us this crap about "its just that your not skilled enough" it has nothing to do with that, its because raids require 9 other people that aren't complete scumbags for you to be able to do it, let alone have fun doing it

 

You haven't played much pvp have you? Good luck dying 24/7 in a match and see how nicely you get treated by your team ... xD

 

You can pug raids just fine and you don't need "friends" per se. Being lazy is not an excuse.

[Torolan.5816]

*I see people dying 24/7 in pvp who have the newest builds for various reasons. There is only so much a class can negate your inability to play strategically.

*I am a Silver Colonel, my favorite class for wvw is shortbow/sword/horn ranger or gs/axe/horn lately. I am too stingy for whetstones. Can I stand up to a dedicated roamer with a leet class? Of course not. Can I score or save my server some points? Sure. Do I have lots of fun in wvw? Sure.

 

You can play both of these modes without stepping on someones toes or causing the content to fail and restart. Neither wvw or pvp restart for all people involved when you fail, nobody cares if you fail to play your roamer/scout at the peak of it´s potential. You simply can´t compare them because they have completely different goals and rerquirements on your style of play.

[Chris McSwag.4683]

> @"Torolan.5816" said:

> *I see people dying 24/7 in pvp who have the newest builds for various reasons. There is only so much a class can negate your inability to play strategically.

> *I am a Silver Colonel, my favorite class for wvw is shortbow/sword/horn ranger or gs/axe/horn lately. I am too stingy for whetstones. Can I stand up to a dedicated roamer with a leet class? Of course not. Can I score or save my server some points? Sure. Do I have lots of fun in wvw? Sure.

>

> You can play both of these modes without stepping on someones toes or causing the content to fail and restart. Neither wvw or pvp restart for all people involved when you fail, nobody cares if you fail to play your roamer/scout at the peak of it´s potential. You simply can´t compare them because they have completely different goals and rerquirements on your style of play.

 

A notable bunch of pvp players go afk if they dont like their team, and its not too uncommon for wvw commanders to tag down/leave if people do not stack on tag, provide decent buffs/cleanse/damage. This is a result of playing with people that have a view on how things should be done in order to be enjoyable for them or the majority - which might be the same or different to what you find fun.

 

Just as in WvW or PvP, you keep your progress in raids. You dont need to redo the same events you have successfully completed one week regardless of how much you wipe on the next.

[Torolan.5816]

So?

PvP is always a gamble. If you are not mature enough to accept defeat, it´s your loss. I get my AP or dailys despite a special snowflake being unhappy that he was shuffled into a suboptimal team. Winning is not everything.

Said commander is not stepping down because I failed to defeat a roamer. If you join his squad, you basically agree to his or her rules. If you don´t join, you owe allegiance to no one. The need for roamers to join squads always evaded me personally.

 

How much time does it take to train a raider to perform so good that he can meaningful contribute to a raid?

How much time does it take a random guy to enter wvw and score some points with scouting/roaming?

How much time and dedication do you need to use any movement skill and be the first on close? Even when you´re a total creampuff elsewise, you already contributed for your team.

There are no scouts or builders in raids, and there are no point cappers. Either you are fully in and commited, or you´re fully out.

[Cyninja.2954]

> @"Torolan.5816" said:

> So?

> PvP is always a gamble. If you are not mature enough to accept defeat, it´s your loss. I get my AP or dailys despite a special snowflake being unhappy that he was shuffled into a suboptimal team. Winning is not everything.

> Said commander is not stepping down because I failed to defeat a roamer. If you join his squad, you basically agree to his or her rules. If you don´t join, you owe allegiance to no one. The need for roamers to join squads always evaded me personally.

>

> How much time does it take to train a raider to perform so good that he can meaningful contribute to a raid?

> How much time does it take a random guy to enter wvw and score some points with scouting/roaming?

> How much time and dedication do you need to use any movement skill and be the first on close? Even when you´re a total creampuff elsewise, you already contributed for your team.

> There are no scouts or builders in raids, and there are no point cappers. Either you are fully in and commited, or you´re fully out.

 

That's not the point and you are now shifting the goal post since you got called out on your nonsense.

 

Fact is, every team activity has people who demand a certain level of skill. Join a spvp team and suck, you'll get cursed out heavier than during any raid. The higher the skill level, the worse the cursing. It's not the pve raiders fault there is no proper high level spvp community.

 

The same goes for wvw. Sure you can tag along and be useless. Only reason it takes people longer to notice (or not notice) is a pure numbers game and the inability to track others. Trust me, if people knew you were joining the wvw squad in full berserker gear being a rally bot to the other side you'd get more hate mail in 1 hour than any player so far during the entire 5 years of this game.

[Torolan.5816]

The funny thing about this is that I admit that raiders need to be more organized than other people you call it nonsense.

When I say on the other hand that raiding does not have a special quality that heaves it over wvw or pvp, you are also not happy.

Make a choice please.

 

And I already said that roamers should not join a wvw squad. What more do you want?

 

But if we are already on it and you basically ask for it, has anybody outside of a GvG event or a dedicated SPvP team ever asked you what kind of gear you carry or how high your rank is when you joined EB or any other wvw map? Like it or not, wvw and pvp are both more accessible than a raid. You simply can´t raid alone and in a come as you are fashion. What could be wrong about that?

[Cyninja.2954]

> @"Torolan.5816" said:

> The funny thing about this is that I admit that raiders need to be more organized than other people you call it nonsense.

> When I say on the other hand that raiding does not have a special quality that heaves it over wvw or pvp, you are also not happy.

> Make a choice please.

>

> And I already said that roamers should not join a wvw squad. What more do you want?

>

> But if we are already on it and you basically ask for it, has anybody outside of a GvG event or a dedicated SPvP team ever asked you what kind of gear you carry or how high your rank is when you joined EB or any other wvw map? Like it or not, wvw and pvp are both more accessible than a raid. You simply can´t raid alone and in a come as you are fashion. What could be wrong about that?

 

No one is denying accessibility. Most of that accessibility comes from the fact that:

A.) rewards in spvp and wvw are purely time based. Skill has a very minor outcome on them (basically only speeding them up)

B.) spvp gear is non existant, wvw you can't enforce gear so checking for it makes no sense

C.) spvp and wvw are not limited in size (except wvw map size which is around 150 players)

 

Exclusion in both game modes would be way higher if:

A.) gear could be checked and enforced

B.) success was actually relevant to rewards (ohhh I wish this were the case in spvp. the toxic levels would be astronomical)

[Torolan.5816]

And as we are probably now agreeing on that the question at least for me boils down if you are an advocate of the idea that the most organized activity should exclusively net the highest or in this case the best QoL reward or not. And as a secondary battle line if you think skins are a valid reward or not.

I am personally not an advocate of the first idea and totally uninterested in exclusive skins on the other hand. As it stands now, it is a rather good development for me.

 

Still it kind of irks me if someone equals the missing will to organize yourself in a group with lazyness.

 

 

[Cyninja.2954]

> @"Torolan.5816" said:

> And as we are probably now agreeing on that the question at least for me boils down if you are an advocate of the idea that the most organized activity should exclusively net the highest or in this case the best QoL reward or not. And as a secondary battle line if you think skins are a valid reward or not.

> I am personally not an advocate of the first idea and totally uninterested in exclusive skins on the other hand. As it stands now, it is a rather good development for me.

>

> Still it kind of irks me if someone equals the missing will to organize yourself in a group with lazyness.

>

>

 

My personal opinion is this:

- skins are a valuable reward in GW2 depending on their rarity

- raids being the pve method of acquisition of legendary armor is fine

- if there were an alternative method in pve (for armor), it would have to be massively time gated as well as expensive (to offset the lack of difficulty), though I doubt this will ever come

- I think legendary armor has absolutely nothing to do as spvp reward. It's completely useless in that game mode and was only added for cross game mode play and basically to entice people to play spvp

- I think an exotic or ascended set of spvp exclusive skins would have been way better than legendary armor. spvp used to be about unique cool looking skins, now it's devolved into a pure farm which most people just trod through without actually enjoying it

- legendary armor in wvw is fine and I would love to see more legendarys in that game mode, though the acquisition is a problem since wvw requires 0 skill to get rewards, only time and dedication (which I am fine with but it does pose a problem reward wise)

[TheWolf.1602]

Just let the raiders have their legendary ring, as long as every game mode has or will have an option to get legendary armor/trinkets, I couldn't care less...

[Astralporing.1957]

> @"TheWolf.1602" said:

> Just let the raiders have their legendary ring, as long as every game mode has or will have an option to get legendary armor/trinkets, I couldn't care less...

As long as i will be able to get a full set of trinkets from PvE _without_ needing to raid for them, i honestly don't care. I just don't believe that will happen.

 

 

[STIHL.2489]

I'be been very vocal that I think this is a bad idea.. but you know.. I'll trust Anet on this. I may never agree with them, ad remain that I think it's a bad idea, but I'm gonna take the leap of faith and trust that they know what is best for the game and the future. The myriad failed ventures in this game alone say otherwise.. but maybe.. just maybe.. they are right this time.

 

Never gonna get into raiding.. but that's cool.. its my choice. Just gonna try to accept that maybe this one they got right.

[Rennie.6750]

> @"Feanor.2358" said:

> > @"Astralporing.1957" said:

> > > @"Sorin Noroku.5342" said:

> > > 3,000 players in GW2RA, casual raiders with <50 li all the way to more dedicated players with >150 li. The new legendary ring's precursor can be gotten from killing ANY raid boss (escort and cairn and MO are INCREDIBLY easy to carry a few people), and then going to any instance that has killed the bosses and not yet been reopened of Hall of Chains. (IE they killed all the bosses, then never left it.) This means its HIGHLY possible for casual people who don't raid to get the precursor for this legendary ring, without being a very dedicated raider. Just need to find generous people or actually raid o,o.

> > As clarified by Anet devs, it's not so. You _have_ to kill Dhuum to finish the collection, which makes it so that it will be highly difficult even for many raiders. Non-raiders are right out at this point.

> >

> >

>

> You know many people will just buy the kills, right? It will be only inaccessible if they make you grind Dhuum over and over again in order to finish the collection.

> That being said, what's the problem with a particular item being inaccessible to some players? Sublime Misforged says "hi". And if you're going to resort to "functionality" argument again, rest assured they'll add alternative ways to get the same functionality. PvP/WvW legendary armors set a precedent already, the devs will do the same.

 

What I find distasteful is that in spite of the consistent complaints about the current iteration of raids in GW2, the devs don't care at all, and in fact seem to be craving for more unrest. Yes, adding a new legendary to raids is fine, in theory, the problem is the timing. Why do raids get the first ring when it's by far the least popular and least accessible game mode? If that was the 3rd or 4th ring, unhappy players would probably not care at all, but it's the first, they want it, and it's locked because raids must be for special snowflakes and that this content would not survive the shame of having several tiers like fractals.

 

If you want the mistforge armour you can queue for a WvW map alone, tag some stuff, and eventually, after some insane grind, you'll get it. Maybe. Or probably not, but at least it's in theory possible to do it that way. And we're talking about the prestige reward from WvW, a game mode that is far more difficult to master than learning a boss script. Raids require a lot of insanely time consuming and tedious social endeavours, getting 9 other player's approval, and a myriad of equally time consuming and boring stuff to get it done.

 

I'm not mad, I'm long past being mad about video games, it's just distasteful and shows that the devs don't really care about 1 - the greater picture 2 - the playerbase as a whole, and that at ANet nobody actually cares about what the general population thinks. They're developing the game from their ivory tower, and the pleb can yell and complain, it won't be heard. That's what this whole story is picturing, and to be honest, it's really the first time I see game devs so disconnected from their playerbase. They just don't give a fuck. That's the shocking part.