More “paths” to legendary gear...

[Obtena.7952]

> @"Swagger.1459" said:

> > @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > I don't have a problem following your flawed arguments for more paths, ESPECIALLY the ones that twist a few broad marketing statements taken out of context into absolute rules dictating how whatever you want should be delivered to you how you see fit.

>

> I enjoy debates, but if you don’t know the easy to understand topic, the easy to understand wording of the topic, the founder of this game and his quotes, the spirit of the game design philosophy envisioned by the founder... there is nothing more I can do to help you with.

>

> I can now safely sit back and know that I did my best to help you in a constructive manner, and that the rest is up to you to work out within yourself.

>

> GLHF!

 

Seems so. Unfortunately you missed the most important part; what the game actually IS. You're right, it's all easy to understand, especially if you pay attention to how the game works and stop getting lost in your own interpretations of what people said. That's the easiest and most telling part of all.

 

The most interesting part is that it seems you're perfectly happy to play a game for years and years and accept all the other things in the game that seemingly violate the philosophy, until it gets in the way of you getting some very specific loot you want in a way that fits how you want to get it. How convenient is that.

[STIHL.2489]

@"Swagger.1459" You know, making Ascended Identical to Legendary would fix this issue, because as long as there is no intrinsic difference between the gear like it used to be (with Exotic), Legendary Item return to being purely cosmetic bragging right, like they were originally intended.

[Obtena.7952]

^^ This doesn't solve the problem the OP was talking about; now who's not following an easy to understand topic?

 

[STIHL.2489]

No offence, but you haven't even once addressed the actual issue the OP was talking about, so how would you know if it addresses it.

[Swagger.1459]

> @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > @"Swagger.1459" said:

> > > @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > > I don't have a problem following your flawed arguments for more paths, ESPECIALLY the ones that twist a few broad marketing statements taken out of context into absolute rules dictating how whatever you want should be delivered to you how you see fit.

> >

> > I enjoy debates, but if you don’t know the easy to understand topic, the easy to understand wording of the topic, the founder of this game and his quotes, the spirit of the game design philosophy envisioned by the founder... there is nothing more I can do to help you with.

> >

> > I can now safely sit back and know that I did my best to help you in a constructive manner, and that the rest is up to you to work out within yourself.

> >

> > GLHF!

>

> Seems so. Unfortunately you missed the most important part; what the game actually IS. You're right, it's all easy to understand, especially if you pay attention to how the game works and stop getting lost in your own interpretations of what people said. That's the easiest and most telling part of all.

>

> The most interesting part is that it seems you're perfectly happy to play a game for years and years and accept all the other things in the game that seemingly violate the philosophy, until it gets in the way of you getting some very specific loot you want in a way that fits how you want to get it. How convenient is that.

 

“Seems so”is right! I’m glad you agree with me! We are making progress!

 

I missed nothing, I made a suggestion and provided a rational reason for that suggestion.

 

Stop assuming, makes you look silly and it’s counterproductive. I have 15 legendary weapons, full medium raid armor, warbringer and aurora... told you before, but obviously you don’t pay attention to much of anything.

 

You keep posting with lack of understanding of the suggestion, not knowing the founder and founder quotes, you keep posting the same old stuff over and over and never evolving. 90% of what you typed out in this thread was out of your lack of basic understanding. You’re not really interested in debate, or learning, or providing reasoned counter arguments... you just quick read and reply without mentally processing much of anything...

 

It’s a waste of time to communicate with someone who doesn’t even make a basic effort to understand the basic request, and just spin doctors in an attempt to “win” a discussion... You have almost no idea of what you are talking about in this thread.

[FrizzFreston.5290]

> @"STIHL.2489" said:

> Easy Solution, Make Legendary purely Cosmetic again, and have Exactly the same stats as Ascended, Which could be done by simply giving Ascended the Stats swap ability.

 

Ascended armor can swap stats. It's just not free.

[Obtena.7952]

> @"STIHL.2489" said:

> No offence, but you haven't even once addressed the actual issue the OP was talking about, so how would you know if it addresses it.

 

Cause I can read.

[STIHL.2489]

No one is questioning if you can actually read the words, it's the comprehension we think that is lacking.

[Kako.1930]

Wow, so that's what happens if you respond to trolls. I usually just ignore them lol.

[STIHL.2489]

> @"FrizzFreston.5290" said:

> > @"STIHL.2489" said:

> > Easy Solution, Make Legendary purely Cosmetic again, and have Exactly the same stats as Ascended, Which could be done by simply giving Ascended the Stats swap ability.

>

> Ascended armor can swap stats. It's just not free.

 

Well then they should make it free, and return things back to the Core Design, where Legendary Items were purely cosmetic. It would be a very easy fix that would take minimal time, and resolve many issues.

 

Then they can focus on making special unique skins for the WvW and sPvP legendary armor, like they should have from the start.

 

> @"Swagger.1459" said:

> It’s a waste of time to communicate with someone who doesn’t even make a basic effort to understand the basic request, and just spin doctors in an attempt to “win” a discussion... You have almost no idea of what you are talking about in this thread.

 

I think you are giving them too much credit with that _Almost_

[Tyson.5160]

> @"STIHL.2489" said:

> > @"FrizzFreston.5290" said:

> > > @"STIHL.2489" said:

> > > Easy Solution, Make Legendary purely Cosmetic again, and have Exactly the same stats as Ascended, Which could be done by simply giving Ascended the Stats swap ability.

> >

> > Ascended armor can swap stats. It's just not free.

>

> Well then they should make it free, and return things back to the Core Design, where Legendary Items were purely cosmetic. It would be a very easy fix that would take minimal time, and resolve many issues.

>

> Then they can focus on making special unique skins for the WvW and sPvP legendary armor, like they should have from the start.

 

^^^^^Can’t agree more!

 

 

[Astralporing.1957]

> @"FrizzFreston.5290" said:

> > @"STIHL.2489" said:

> > Easy Solution, Make Legendary purely Cosmetic again, and have Exactly the same stats as Ascended, Which could be done by simply giving Ascended the Stats swap ability.

>

> Ascended armor can swap stats. It's just not free.

That is a big "just". Besides, it's not only that - to change stats you need mystic forge, which means if you want to do it often, you need to keep rezoning (or a portable forge), and carry the materials for stat changing as well. And if you need stat changing often, the cost would add up to way more than a legendary cost very fast. And of course you lose runes on that, which adds even more cost.

So, not really comparable.

 

 

[FrizzFreston.5290]

> @"Astralporing.1957" said:

> > @"FrizzFreston.5290" said:

> > > @"STIHL.2489" said:

> > > Easy Solution, Make Legendary purely Cosmetic again, and have Exactly the same stats as Ascended, Which could be done by simply giving Ascended the Stats swap ability.

> >

> > Ascended armor can swap stats. It's just not free.

> That is a big "just". Besides, it's not only that - to change stats you need mystic forge, which means if you want to do it often, you need to keep rezoning (or a portable forge), and carry the materials for stat changing as well. And if you need stat changing often, the cost would add up to way more than a legendary cost very fast. And of course you lose runes on that, which adds even more cost.

> So, not really comparable.

 

So... you make a comparison, and then decide its not comparable? I don't follow.

[Astralporing.1957]

> @"FrizzFreston.5290" said:

> > @"Astralporing.1957" said:

> > > @"FrizzFreston.5290" said:

> > > > @"STIHL.2489" said:

> > > > Easy Solution, Make Legendary purely Cosmetic again, and have Exactly the same stats as Ascended, Which could be done by simply giving Ascended the Stats swap ability.

> > >

> > > Ascended armor can swap stats. It's just not free.

> > That is a big "just". Besides, it's not only that - to change stats you need mystic forge, which means if you want to do it often, you need to keep rezoning (or a portable forge), and carry the materials for stat changing as well. And if you need stat changing often, the cost would add up to way more than a legendary cost very fast. And of course you lose runes on that, which adds even more cost.

> > So, not really comparable.

>

> So... you make a comparison, and then decide its not comparable? I don't follow.

 

I have pointed out to you that the difference is much, much bigger than you suggest. Big enough that it cannot be waved away by saying "it's just not free".

 

(by the way, even in this you were wrong. It's not the ascended armor that can swap stats. This ability belongs to Mystic forge. Ascended armor on its own cannot do that)

[FrizzFreston.5290]

> @"Astralporing.1957" said:

> > @"FrizzFreston.5290" said:

> > > @"Astralporing.1957" said:

> > > > @"FrizzFreston.5290" said:

> > > > > @"STIHL.2489" said:

> > > > > Easy Solution, Make Legendary purely Cosmetic again, and have Exactly the same stats as Ascended, Which could be done by simply giving Ascended the Stats swap ability.

> > > >

> > > > Ascended armor can swap stats. It's just not free.

> > > That is a big "just". Besides, it's not only that - to change stats you need mystic forge, which means if you want to do it often, you need to keep rezoning (or a portable forge), and carry the materials for stat changing as well. And if you need stat changing often, the cost would add up to way more than a legendary cost very fast. And of course you lose runes on that, which adds even more cost.

> > > So, not really comparable.

> >

> > So... you make a comparison, and then decide its not comparable? I don't follow.

>

> I have pointed out to you that the difference is much, much bigger than you suggest. Big enough that it cannot be waved away by saying "it's just not free".

>

> (by the way, even in this you were wrong. It's not the ascended armor that can swap stats. This ability belongs to Mystic forge. Ascended armor on its own cannot do that)

 

Big enough that you cannot wave it away as such, sure. For me the availability of any legendary gear is very limited at best. And ascended is already a unnescessary luxury.

 

Talking with the costs of legendary armour or the costs of changing ascended gear in mind its something that only really matters to those willing to put a crazy ton amount of hours into the game.

 

For anyone casual, the comparison between legendary gear and swapping stats enough times to cost legendary amounts is between very expensive and just out of reach.

 

Considering that its not really that needed to swap stats at all its really not an issue to begin with. The game wasnt designed in a way you need to change your build every other encounter, and only a very limited amount of people care enough about changing stats that often that it makes really not a big necessity to begin with.

 

Plus you can easily craft/obtain several sets of ascended gear and not even needing to swap any stats.

 

And thats not even considering the effects on ingame economy when you dont need to make gear or swap stas.

[STIHL.2489]

> @"Astralporing.1957" said:

> > @"FrizzFreston.5290" said:

> > > @"STIHL.2489" said:

> > > Easy Solution, Make Legendary purely Cosmetic again, and have Exactly the same stats as Ascended, Which could be done by simply giving Ascended the Stats swap ability.

> >

> > Ascended armor can swap stats. It's just not free.

> That is a big "just". Besides, it's not only that - to change stats you need mystic forge, which means if you want to do it often, you need to keep rezoning (or a portable forge), and carry the materials for stat changing as well. And if you need stat changing often, the cost would add up to way more than a legendary cost very fast. And of course you lose runes on that, which adds even more cost.

> So, not really comparable.

>

 

Well, I had a similar discussion about advantages and QoL variance between legendary and whatever else, and it's not the cost that is the issue, it's the fact that at the end of the day, the Legendary Item is simply better, as opposed to just being Cosmetic. What makes it better is not relevant, the fact that it is BiS is the main problem.

[Obtena.7952]

Having BiS gear limited by the ways it can be obtained isn't even a problem to begin with. The problem here is that there isn't paths the way people want them, not that those alternate paths don't already exist.

[STIHL.2489]

Quite frankly, having the path limited to HoT is pretty bad to start with, they should at the very least have a Core and PoF method to get Legendary Armor, and in a game like GW2 all Legendary Armor should have Unique skins, not doing that is just lazy.

[Astralporing.1957]

> @"Obtena.7952" said:

> Having BiS gear limited by the ways it can be obtained isn't even a problem to begin with. The problem here is that there isn't paths the way people want them, not that those alternate paths don't already exist.

Indeed. The problem is that all three available paths happen to exclude a majority of players. Together, not individually. Majority of players play pve, and do not raid.

 

 

[yann.1946]

> @"STIHL.2489" said:

> Quite frankly, having the path limited to HoT is pretty bad to start with, they should at the very least have a Core and PoF method to get Legendary Armor, and in a game like GW2 all Legendary Armor should have Unique skins, not doing that is just lazy.

 

I agree that different skins for all versions would be preferred.

[Feanor.2358]

> @"Obtena.7952" said:

> Having BiS gear limited by the ways it can be obtained isn't even a problem to begin with. The problem here is that there isn't paths the way people want them, not that those alternate paths don't already exist.

 

Legendary isn't BiS. It is never required, and there's no reason for it to be. It's strictly a prestige tier. For the purpose of gear progression, Ascended is the top tier and it is accessible through a wide variety of ways. Which comes to support my claim and shows that legendary tier *was intended* to be a prestige tier.

[STIHL.2489]

> @"Feanor.2358" said:

> > @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > Having BiS gear limited by the ways it can be obtained isn't even a problem to begin with. The problem here is that there isn't paths the way people want them, not that those alternate paths don't already exist.

>

> Legendary isn't BiS. It is never required, and there's no reason for it to be. It's strictly a prestige tier. For the purpose of gear progression, Ascended is the top tier and it is accessible through a wide variety of ways. Which comes to support my claim and shows that legendary tier *was intended* to be a prestige tier.

 

 

and Wrong again.

 

Legendary's Stat Swapping ability makes it the best gear you can equip, making it BiS, it also removes it from being just a prestige item. Now, legendary was at one time, purely cosmetic or prestige, but, that is no longer the case. Which again, shows the games regression from their foundation principals into generic MMO style of game.

[Swagger.1459]

> @"Feanor.2358" said:

> > @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > Having BiS gear limited by the ways it can be obtained isn't even a problem to begin with. The problem here is that there isn't paths the way people want them, not that those alternate paths don't already exist.

>

> Legendary isn't BiS. It is never required, and there's no reason for it to be. It's strictly a prestige tier. For the purpose of gear progression, Ascended is the top tier and it is accessible through a wide variety of ways. Which comes to support my claim and shows that legendary tier *was intended* to be a prestige tier.

 

Of course legendary gear is best in slot due to how they function... ... ...

 

Let’s read what makes legendary gear best in slot in GW2!

 

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Legendary_equipment

[FrizzFreston.5290]

> @"STIHL.2489" said:

> > @"Feanor.2358" said:

> > > @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > > Having BiS gear limited by the ways it can be obtained isn't even a problem to begin with. The problem here is that there isn't paths the way people want them, not that those alternate paths don't already exist.

> >

> > Legendary isn't BiS. It is never required, and there's no reason for it to be. It's strictly a prestige tier. For the purpose of gear progression, Ascended is the top tier and it is accessible through a wide variety of ways. Which comes to support my claim and shows that legendary tier *was intended* to be a prestige tier.

>

>

> and Wrong again.

>

> Legendary's Stat Swapping ability makes it the best gear you can equip, making it BiS, it also removes it from being just a prestige item. Now, legendary was at one time, purely cosmetic or prestige, but, that is no longer the case. Which again, shows the games regression from their foundation principals into generic MMO style of game.

 

I think you can safely say that ArenaNet sees Ascended/Legendary stats as BiS gear statistically, even if the QoL feature obviously adds another layer of desirability to it.

 

Though you could say they did abandon the principles when they decided to bring in ascended stats, there will (most likely) never be anything above ascended gear in stats at least, and so far that has been true.

 

And while I agree that swapping your stats on the fly may be considered better, but it IS still horizontal progression. When you pick any stat for your legendary gear you will never be more powerful than someone in ascended gear. And thats what ArenaNet always meant with BiS.

[Swagger.1459]

> @"FrizzFreston.5290" said:

> > @"STIHL.2489" said:

> > > @"Feanor.2358" said:

> > > > @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > > > Having BiS gear limited by the ways it can be obtained isn't even a problem to begin with. The problem here is that there isn't paths the way people want them, not that those alternate paths don't already exist.

> > >

> > > Legendary isn't BiS. It is never required, and there's no reason for it to be. It's strictly a prestige tier. For the purpose of gear progression, Ascended is the top tier and it is accessible through a wide variety of ways. Which comes to support my claim and shows that legendary tier *was intended* to be a prestige tier.

> >

> >

> > and Wrong again.

> >

> > Legendary's Stat Swapping ability makes it the best gear you can equip, making it BiS, it also removes it from being just a prestige item. Now, legendary was at one time, purely cosmetic or prestige, but, that is no longer the case. Which again, shows the games regression from their foundation principals into generic MMO style of game.

>

> I think you can safely say that ArenaNet sees Ascended/Legendary stats as BiS gear statistically, even if the QoL feature obviously adds another layer of desirability to it.

>

> Though you could say they did abandon the principles when they decided to bring in ascended stats, there will (most likely) never be anything above ascended gear in stats at least, and so far that has been true.

>

> And while I agree that swapping your stats on the fly may be considered better, but it IS still horizontal progression. When you pick any stat for your legendary gear you will never be more powerful than someone in ascended gear. And thats what ArenaNet always meant with BiS.

 

But it still makes legendary gear best in slot due to the functionality... There is no arguing that it is more advantageous to wield a sword that can have every past, present and future stat... that can be changed out of combat easily... As opposed to a sword with a fixed set of stats, that requires forging to change.