zealex.9410 Posted April 10, 2018 Share Posted April 10, 2018 > @"runeblade.7514" said: > > @"zealex.9410" said: > > > @"runeblade.7514" said: > > > Raiders may say that there is casual content such as Living Story and that would be the reason why Raids should not have easy mode. > > > > > > Raiders can play Living Story if they want. Nothing there stops them from playing Living story. However, I am stopped at playing raids because no one wants to add me to their raid group. No matter how much I want it, I will never be able to play raids. > > > > U are asking the wrong groups. Join a training guild/discord and do them. > > > > That i can do te content doesnt mean i will get the same satisfaction xompaired to doimg the raid. > > And I wouldn't be asking for easy mode if that worked for me. Training raid guilds that actually train raids > Join a proper training discord, the crossroad do just that and u should join them. > It doesn't matter if you don't get the satisfaction, nothing stops you from playing casual content. > Nothong stops you as well. > > @"zealex.9410" said: > > > @"Astralporing.1957" said: > > > > @"zealex.9410" said: > > > > So you tell me that the entirety of the game the "whole 400k players" that log in have less ppl enjoying watching streams than a by your words "Small part of the game? I mean wp only streams open world stuff and some times pvp casting and gets as many viewers as teapot so i dont see the arguement that "the rest of the game doesnt like streams" > > > Yes. Most of the players simply do not care about any of that. They never did. The casual to hardcore ratio for GW2 was always really high. > > > Hint: most of the players do not even know who WP or Teapot are. > > > Also, 400k? The population is dropping that fast? > > > > > > > @"zealex.9410" said: > > > > "Those numbers are tragically low" compaire to what? Iv given you example from other parts of the game with big members of the community streaming pulling less ppl, WP, The ugo tourney, the big pvp streamers in tourney and events. None of the pull bigger numbers and they are all equally unwatchable as raids. So compaired to waht are these numbers tragically low? > > > To the game population. What else? > > > > What numb3rs do you have to proe that? I have numbers. Telling me that they might not like streams and whatnot is not proof is your opinion. Numbers talk. > > > > > > > > > @"zealex.9410" said: > > > > They may not watch but theres alot of ppl daily that buy the game simply because they went on a streamed and asked the streamer and the chat "hey should i buy the game?" > > > Apparently those players do not stay long, or those stream numbers would continue to go up. The truth is, that the people that play GW2 and are interested in it enough to stay longer, apparently do not watch streams, so they can't be influenced by them. > > > Unless you are saying that they stop watching streams as soon as they start playing? > > > > > > > > > > The numbers went up. Gw2 everaged lower viewership than it does now. > > Streaming doesn't correlate to a lot of raids. I watch a lot of streams and I don't play those games. I watch raid streams and I can't play them anyways. More of an outlier than the case. Gw2 streamers dont get actual views outside of gw2 content and specifically the content they are known for. Streamers that hold interest regardless of the game are rare and tent tp be the more successful ones. > @"Ze Dos Cavalos.6132" said: > A raid Dev should come here and say they will never make raid easy mode so this discussion finish once and for all :expressionless: Been there done that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
runeblade.7514 Posted April 10, 2018 Share Posted April 10, 2018 > @"zealex.9410" said: > > @"runeblade.7514" said: > > > @"zealex.9410" said: > > > > @"runeblade.7514" said: > > > > Raiders may say that there is casual content such as Living Story and that would be the reason why Raids should not have easy mode. > > > > > > > > Raiders can play Living Story if they want. Nothing there stops them from playing Living story. However, I am stopped at playing raids because no one wants to add me to their raid group. No matter how much I want it, I will never be able to play raids. > > > > > > U are asking the wrong groups. Join a training guild/discord and do them. > > > > > > That i can do te content doesnt mean i will get the same satisfaction xompaired to doimg the raid. > > > > And I wouldn't be asking for easy mode if that worked for me. Training raid guilds that actually train raids > > > Join a proper training discord, the crossroad do just that and u should join them. > You are not the first to give me that worthless tip. You won't be the last. I tried it and getting a raid will not work for me. > > It doesn't matter if you don't get the satisfaction, nothing stops you from playing casual content. > > > Nothong stops you as well. > Except for the commander requiring me to have 250 LI. Easy mode will not stop you from having satisfaction of playing raids. There is already a lot of raid content anyways, ANet can afford to slow down development on raids. > > > @"zealex.9410" said: > > > > @"Astralporing.1957" said: > > > > > @"zealex.9410" said: > > > > > So you tell me that the entirety of the game the "whole 400k players" that log in have less ppl enjoying watching streams than a by your words "Small part of the game? I mean wp only streams open world stuff and some times pvp casting and gets as many viewers as teapot so i dont see the arguement that "the rest of the game doesnt like streams" > > > > Yes. Most of the players simply do not care about any of that. They never did. The casual to hardcore ratio for GW2 was always really high. > > > > Hint: most of the players do not even know who WP or Teapot are. > > > > Also, 400k? The population is dropping that fast? > > > > > > > > > @"zealex.9410" said: > > > > > "Those numbers are tragically low" compaire to what? Iv given you example from other parts of the game with big members of the community streaming pulling less ppl, WP, The ugo tourney, the big pvp streamers in tourney and events. None of the pull bigger numbers and they are all equally unwatchable as raids. So compaired to waht are these numbers tragically low? > > > > To the game population. What else? > > > > > > What numb3rs do you have to proe that? I have numbers. Telling me that they might not like streams and whatnot is not proof is your opinion. Numbers talk. > > > > > > > > > > > > @"zealex.9410" said: > > > > > They may not watch but theres alot of ppl daily that buy the game simply because they went on a streamed and asked the streamer and the chat "hey should i buy the game?" > > > > Apparently those players do not stay long, or those stream numbers would continue to go up. The truth is, that the people that play GW2 and are interested in it enough to stay longer, apparently do not watch streams, so they can't be influenced by them. > > > > Unless you are saying that they stop watching streams as soon as they start playing? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The numbers went up. Gw2 everaged lower viewership than it does now. > > > > Streaming doesn't correlate to a lot of raids. I watch a lot of streams and I don't play those games. I watch raid streams and I can't play them anyways. > > More of an outlier than the case. Gw2 streamers dont get actual views outside of gw2 content and specifically the content they are known for. > > Streamers that hold interest regardless of the game are rare and tent tp be the more successful ones. > Or it is actually the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
runeblade.7514 Posted April 10, 2018 Share Posted April 10, 2018 > @"Ze Dos Cavalos.6132" said: > A raid Dev should come here and say they will never make raid easy mode so this discussion finish once and for all :expressionless: If a raid dev does, then I would not stop this discussion. Raids are not accessible for me and I do not like that. I would continue to push for easy mode raids and hope to change their minds because we deserve it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zealex.9410 Posted April 10, 2018 Share Posted April 10, 2018 > @"runeblade.7514" said: > > @"zealex.9410" said: > > > @"runeblade.7514" said: > > > > @"zealex.9410" said: > > > > > @"runeblade.7514" said: > > > > > Raiders may say that there is casual content such as Living Story and that would be the reason why Raids should not have easy mode. > > > > > > > > > > Raiders can play Living Story if they want. Nothing there stops them from playing Living story. However, I am stopped at playing raids because no one wants to add me to their raid group. No matter how much I want it, I will never be able to play raids. > > > > > > > > U are asking the wrong groups. Join a training guild/discord and do them. > > > > > > > > That i can do te content doesnt mean i will get the same satisfaction xompaired to doimg the raid. > > > > > > And I wouldn't be asking for easy mode if that worked for me. Training raid guilds that actually train raids > > > > > Join a proper training discord, the crossroad do just that and u should join them. > > > > You are not the first to give me that worthless tip. You won't be the last. I tried it and getting a raid will not work for me. > Thats not on the game at this point thats on you. Pvp also didnt work for me i wanted to get the armornsets and the pvp backpack skin but couldnt deal with it so i noped out. Thats on me not the game. > > > It doesn't matter if you don't get the satisfaction, nothing stops you from playing casual content. > > > > > Nothong stops you as well. > > > > Except for the commander requiring me to have 250 LI. Easy mode will not stop you from having satisfaction of playing raids. There is already a lot of raid content anyways, ANet can afford to slow down development on raids. > Again u are trying to join the wrong group. Yes it will ppl getting the rewards i worked for with less effort will reduce my satisfaction sagnificantly. No they cant. We can say "they have alot of lw so they can slow down but really noone would like that and it would hurt the game, same aplies to raids. > > > > @"zealex.9410" said: > > > > > @"Astralporing.1957" said: > > > > > > @"zealex.9410" said: > > > > > > So you tell me that the entirety of the game the "whole 400k players" that log in have less ppl enjoying watching streams than a by your words "Small part of the game? I mean wp only streams open world stuff and some times pvp casting and gets as many viewers as teapot so i dont see the arguement that "the rest of the game doesnt like streams" > > > > > Yes. Most of the players simply do not care about any of that. They never did. The casual to hardcore ratio for GW2 was always really high. > > > > > Hint: most of the players do not even know who WP or Teapot are. > > > > > Also, 400k? The population is dropping that fast? > > > > > > > > > > > @"zealex.9410" said: > > > > > > "Those numbers are tragically low" compaire to what? Iv given you example from other parts of the game with big members of the community streaming pulling less ppl, WP, The ugo tourney, the big pvp streamers in tourney and events. None of the pull bigger numbers and they are all equally unwatchable as raids. So compaired to waht are these numbers tragically low? > > > > > To the game population. What else? > > > > > > > > What numb3rs do you have to proe that? I have numbers. Telling me that they might not like streams and whatnot is not proof is your opinion. Numbers talk. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"zealex.9410" said: > > > > > > They may not watch but theres alot of ppl daily that buy the game simply because they went on a streamed and asked the streamer and the chat "hey should i buy the game?" > > > > > Apparently those players do not stay long, or those stream numbers would continue to go up. The truth is, that the people that play GW2 and are interested in it enough to stay longer, apparently do not watch streams, so they can't be influenced by them. > > > > > Unless you are saying that they stop watching streams as soon as they start playing? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The numbers went up. Gw2 everaged lower viewership than it does now. > > > > > > Streaming doesn't correlate to a lot of raids. I watch a lot of streams and I don't play those games. I watch raid streams and I can't play them anyways. > > > > More of an outlier than the case. Gw2 streamers dont get actual views outside of gw2 content and specifically the content they are known for. > > > > Streamers that hold interest regardless of the game are rare and tent tp be the more successful ones. > > > > Or it is actually the case. More often than not it really isnt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sephylon.4938 Posted April 10, 2018 Share Posted April 10, 2018 > Again though, if the behaviors are too different than hard mode then it loses any educational benefit. I mean, players can pretty instantly pick up that they are *supposed* to stand in the green circles, that's not a difficult concept that requires an easy mode to teach. What players need is the muscle memory of getting the *exact* conditions for it down over and over in the heat of combat. If you change the requirements or timing of the move, if you make it easier to *succeed,* then it would be worthless for building that muscle memory. True, but then how should this be done then? Keeping in mind that by not letting the party wipe with this mechanic, you would then be encouraging the use of healers to completely ignore it, leading to a habit that is also not desirable for normal mode. At the goal of the proposal for greens is to teach that there is something that should be looked for, and once that has been set, the rest can be learned in normal mode. Granted this method will not work for all, but even in normal mode, not everyone is expected to do greens, just 4-5 people who usually volunteer for it, and lack of that are voluntold to do it. Those who do not wish to move on will still have a mechanic that is sufficiently easier than normal mode due to the lack of randomness, the extended time, and the reduced number of people required to do so. Therefore having a lower risk of wiping than normal. I believe that this method would allow for both kinds of players to meet and play together, encouraging some people to do mechanics while the others can still do as they would in open world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sephylon.4938 Posted April 10, 2018 Share Posted April 10, 2018 > @"Ze Dos Cavalos.6132" said: > A raid Dev should come here and say they will never make raid easy mode so this discussion finish once and for all :expressionless: They already have > @"Gaile Gray.6029" said: > This subject arises regularly, and it's best to keep such a conversation in a single thread, to get a true cross-section of opinion. Therefore, we've merged this thread and ask for your indulgence in doing so. > > Those of you who have not voted may do so on the first page. Otherwise, the comments here, while merged, will give a pretty solid representation of the differing opinions on this topic. still hasn't stopped. At this point I figured to get to the specifics of what easy mode raid is, how it should play, and feel like, then see if it is something feasible for anet to do, hence the questions I've asked. @runeblade.7514 mind if I ask: What exactly what is about training guilds that did not work for you? Were you able to fight a boss? If so which one, and how did you feel as you were fighting it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ohoni.6057 Posted April 10, 2018 Share Posted April 10, 2018 > @"zealex.9410" said: > > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > > @"zealex.9410" said: > > > Because it would take less effort hence "easier". It would also devale the work other have put to raids and towards the armor. > > > > It would take no less effort, we've established that hard mode raids can be completed in ~25 minutes per night, and easy mode would also take ~25 minutes per night, equal effort. They would just be more FUN for players that do not enjoy high-stress, high-risk content. > > What you ask for is already a thing its called normal raids. Clearly it isn't, or I wouldn't be asking. Do better. > @"Ze Dos Cavalos.6132" said: > A raid Dev should come here and say they will never make raid easy mode so this discussion finish once and for all :expressionless: They have, that won't shut anyone up until they change their mind. > @"Sephylon.4938" said: > True, but then how should this be done then? Keeping in mind that by not letting the party wipe with this mechanic, you would then be encouraging the use of healers to completely ignore it, leading to a habit that is also not desirable for normal mode. Again, though, *that is their choice.* If Easy mode only includes "broken" mechanics, then it cannot *possibly* teach anything of value, no matter how you try to play it. If the Easy mode provides "accurate" mechanics, but allows you to fail them, then *yes,* you do have the *option* of playing into those alterations and playing them differently than normal, but you also have the *option* of playing them straight and using them for practice. Either is a valid option, neither is "doing it wrong," if that's what the player intends to do. Both are good outcomes, because in either case the player is playing how he wants to play. Again, it keeps coming back to you *really* wanting to punish players for ignoring the mechanic, at all costs, regardless of the value in doing so, and I just don't see the point of that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zealex.9410 Posted April 10, 2018 Share Posted April 10, 2018 > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > @"zealex.9410" said: > > > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > > > @"zealex.9410" said: > > > > Because it would take less effort hence "easier". It would also devale the work other have put to raids and towards the armor. > > > > > > It would take no less effort, we've established that hard mode raids can be completed in ~25 minutes per night, and easy mode would also take ~25 minutes per night, equal effort. They would just be more FUN for players that do not enjoy high-stress, high-risk content. > > > > What you ask for is already a thing its called normal raids. > > Clearly it isn't, or I wouldn't be asking. Do better. > Then you are not asking for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ohoni.6057 Posted April 10, 2018 Share Posted April 10, 2018 > @"zealex.9410" said: > > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > > @"zealex.9410" said: > > > > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > > > > @"zealex.9410" said: > > > > > Because it would take less effort hence "easier". It would also devale the work other have put to raids and towards the armor. > > > > > > > > It would take no less effort, we've established that hard mode raids can be completed in ~25 minutes per night, and easy mode would also take ~25 minutes per night, equal effort. They would just be more FUN for players that do not enjoy high-stress, high-risk content. > > > > > > What you ask for is already a thing its called normal raids. > > > > Clearly it isn't, or I wouldn't be asking. Do better. > > > Then you are not asking for that. Nope, I've been clear what I've been asking for, a version of raiding that involves no less time and effort than the existing one, *but* with a lower chance of overall failure due to reduced penalties when you fail a mechanic. Again, you can disagree that this would be a good thing for the game, but it's a waste of everyone;'s time at this point for you to pretend that you don't understand that. We all know that you understand what words mean. Or at least strongly suspect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zealex.9410 Posted April 10, 2018 Share Posted April 10, 2018 > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > @"zealex.9410" said: > > > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > > > @"zealex.9410" said: > > > > > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > > > > > @"zealex.9410" said: > > > > > > Because it would take less effort hence "easier". It would also devale the work other have put to raids and towards the armor. > > > > > > > > > > It would take no less effort, we've established that hard mode raids can be completed in ~25 minutes per night, and easy mode would also take ~25 minutes per night, equal effort. They would just be more FUN for players that do not enjoy high-stress, high-risk content. > > > > > > > > What you ask for is already a thing its called normal raids. > > > > > > Clearly it isn't, or I wouldn't be asking. Do better. > > > > > Then you are not asking for that. > > Nope, I've been clear what I've been asking for, a version of raiding that involves no less time and effort than the existing one, *but* with a lower chance of overall failure due to reduced penalties when you fail a mechanic. Again, you can disagree that this would be a good thing for the game, but it's a waste of everyone;'s time at this point for you to pretend that you don't understand that. We all know that you understand what words mean. Or at least strongly suspect. Thing is this cant happen. Effort and dificulty gp hand to hand you can have one and not the other. Also idk how they will manage to keep it as 3 hours to clear but have it be easier neither do you prob so provide better feedback and they might consider it. Also you are missunderstanding i understand very well the value that an easy ir story mode can have. Ppl imo should be able to play through the story and experiemce the raid. I made a post asking fir the same. That tho doesnt mean they deserve the skin, they prob deserve some gold and the blues/ greens. The skin is tied to the actuall challenging version. U can look at the mirror and say that your opinion is true and holds merrit but it really isnt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miellyn.6847 Posted April 10, 2018 Share Posted April 10, 2018 And against all odds and doomsayers raids are still fine. http://massivelyop.com/2018/04/09/pax-east-2018-guild-wars-2-game-director-mike-zadorojny-on-path-of-fire-monetization-and-more/ Maybe most people do actually join training guilds instead of baseless discussions on the forum? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ohoni.6057 Posted April 10, 2018 Share Posted April 10, 2018 > @"zealex.9410" said: > Effort and dificulty gp hand to hand you can have one and not the other. Effort and difficulty are two completely separate axis. They have nothing to do with each other. Digging a 1ft deep ditch, 100ft long, takes a great deal of effort, but it's not remotely difficult, anyone can do it (assuming they're reasonably healthy, and even then some). Shooting a basket from center court on the first try takes very little effort, someone capable of shooting one could shoot hundreds before tiring, but has a very high level of difficulty. >Also idk how they will manage to keep it as 3 hours to clear but have it be easier neither do you prob so provide better feedback and they might consider it. We'd been discussing methods earlier in the thread, maybe you missed that part of the conversation. A point I'd arrived at is that if the odds of the enemy killing you were reduced, and hard/soft time limits like enrage timers were removed, then it would be perfectly reasonable for the enemy HP to be increased, such that completion times would be equal to or longer than a comparable current raid, the only advantage would be that you'd have a much lower chance of wiping. >The skin is tied to the actuall challenging version. U can look at the mirror and say that your opinion is true and holds merrit but it really isnt. The skin is tied to the challenging version because they arbitrarily decided it was. They can just as easily decide tomorrow that it's attached to easy mode raids, or to moa killing in Queensdale. There is nothing "objective" that requires the skins to be attached to the harder content, it's just your *opinion* that you like it that way, which is no more objective than my opinion that I do *not* like it that way. > @"Miellyn.6847" said: > Maybe most people do actually join training guilds instead of baseless discussions on the forum? I very much recommend people who *want* to join training guilds do so, but for those who don't, that suggestion offers nothing to them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zealex.9410 Posted April 10, 2018 Share Posted April 10, 2018 > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > @"zealex.9410" said: > > Effort and dificulty gp hand to hand you can have one and not the other. > > Effort and difficulty are two completely separate axis. They have nothing to do with each other. Digging a 1ft deep ditch, 100ft long, takes a great deal of effort, but it's not remotely difficult, anyone can do it (assuming they're reasonably healthy, and even then some). Shooting a basket from center court on the first try takes very little effort, someone capable of shooting one could shoot hundreds before tiring, but has a very high level of difficulty. > You are compairing two diff scenario im talking abiut the same contenf done diff with diff baalncing. More time less skill and effort for an easier mode and less time but more skill and as byproduct of that more effort. Also The basketball example heavily relies on luck and if it doesnt (you contradict yourself in this post abit so i cant tell) then its due to alot of effort put into getting his skill to that point. Mean while digging a whole just takes time u can comfortably do it at your own pace and you dont need to push yourself. > >Also idk how they will manage to keep it as 3 hours to clear but have it be easier neither do you prob so provide better feedback and they might consider it. > > We'd been discussing methods earlier in the thread, maybe you missed that part of the conversation. A point I'd arrived at is that if the odds of the enemy killing you were reduced, and hard/soft time limits like enrage timers were removed, then it would be perfectly reasonable for the enemy HP to be increased, such that completion times would be equal to or longer than a comparable current raid, the only advantage would be that you'd have a much lower chance of wiping. > But i cant see hw that will require the same amount of effort and the same amount of time to complete. You are telling me boss is overall less deadly therefor easier to overcome and easier to deal with. > >The skin is tied to the actuall challenging version. U can look at the mirror and say that your opinion is true and holds merrit but it really isnt. > > The skin is tied to the challenging version because they arbitrarily decided it was. They can just as easily decide tomorrow that it's attached to easy mode raids, or to moa killing in Queensdale. There is nothing "objective" that requires the skins to be attached to the harder content, it's just your *opinion* that you like it that way, which is no more objective than my opinion that I do *not* like it that way. > Its my opinion and the opinion of successful decade old design. Wether you think its arbitrary or not is your opinion and therefore subjective. > > @"Miellyn.6847" said: > > Maybe most people do actually join training guilds instead of baseless discussions on the forum? > > I very much recommend people who *want* to join training guilds do so, but for those who don't, that suggestion offers nothing to them. Those ppl willingly choose to do so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miellyn.6847 Posted April 10, 2018 Share Posted April 10, 2018 > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > @"Miellyn.6847" said: > > Maybe most people do actually join training guilds instead of baseless discussions on the forum? > > I very much recommend people who *want* to join training guilds do so, but for those who don't, that suggestion offers nothing to them. The statement from ArenaNet, the popularity of training guilds and the fact that the raid LFG is on of the most active of the entire game highly suggest that you are part of a very small minority. Not the raider. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ohoni.6057 Posted April 10, 2018 Share Posted April 10, 2018 > @"zealex.9410" said: >You are compairing two diff scenario im talking abiut the same contenf done diff with diff baalncing. More time less skill and effort for an easier mode and less time but more skill and as byproduct of that more effort. Again, an easy mode raid can involve just as much effort as a hard mode, it's just less likely to wipe. >But i cant see hw that will require the same amount of effort and the same amount of time to complete. You are telling me boss is overall less deadly therefor easier to overcome and easier to deal with. Yes, exactly. Easier, but still the same effort, if not more. > @"Miellyn.6847" said: > The statement from ArenaNet, the popularity of training guilds and the fact that the raid LFG is on of the most active of the entire game highly suggest that you are part of a very small minority. Not the raider. If you say so, but I've noticed that you guys spend an *awful* lot of time trying to shout down people who, according to you, stand absolutely zero chance of accomplishing anything. Methinks the lady doth protest too much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feanor.2358 Posted April 10, 2018 Share Posted April 10, 2018 > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > >You're focusing on how you *want* people to behave rather than on how they actually do. This is your mistake. > > > > > > And you believe that you *aren't?* > > > > I don't believe it, I know it. I'm not telling you how to *behave*. I'm merely telling you why you're wrong and why the realities of this particular game are not how you think they should be. > > But you're basically trying to perpetuate the myth that any player can come to enjoy the raiding lifestyle if they just want it hard enough, which isn't true. Either accept that many players will NEVER be happy with the current situation and that you don't care that they will be unhappy, or work toward their happiness. There will *always* be players unhappy with any situation you choose. **Always**. You can't work toward resolving that, for the simple reason that players are different and they ultimately desire different things. What you can work for is a compromise. And a compromise is exactly what the current situation is. You're not into raiding "lifestyle"? Good. You have 95% of the PvE content in the game designed for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyson.5160 Posted April 10, 2018 Share Posted April 10, 2018 > @"Vinceman.4572" said: > > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > > @"Vinceman.4572" said: > > > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > I vote the latter. You can't please everyone, that's no excuse to stop trying to please most players. > > And the big question is: Are the most players in GW2 uncomfortable with the game or is it just Ohoni and a few more. I call the latter because there is 0 indication, proof or evidence it's the other way round! Only Anet knows the true answer to your big question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ohoni.6057 Posted April 10, 2018 Share Posted April 10, 2018 > @"Feanor.2358" said: > There will always be players unhappy with any situation you choose. Always. Sure, that's irrelevant. "There will always be poor people" is no reason to not help poor people where you can. There will indeed always be unhappy people, but that's no reason to ignore that there are some relatively simple steps that can be taken to make some people less unhappy. >And a compromise is exactly what the current situation is. You're not into raiding "lifestyle"? Good. You have 95% of the PvE content in the game designed for you. That's not a compromise. The compromise would be the easy mode raids. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miellyn.6847 Posted April 10, 2018 Share Posted April 10, 2018 > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > @"Miellyn.6847" said: > > The statement from ArenaNet, the popularity of training guilds and the fact that the raid LFG is on of the most active of the entire game highly suggest that you are part of a very small minority. Not the raider. > > If you say so, but I've noticed that you guys spend an *awful* lot of time trying to shout down people who, according to you, stand absolutely zero chance of accomplishing anything. Methinks the lady doth protest too much. ArenaNet is still happy with the current implementation of raids. So the raiding population can't be as small as you want it to be. In the current state of the game, yes you have zero chance to change anything. You protest against the current situation can we say you also protest too much? > @"Tyson.5160" said: > > @"Vinceman.4572" said: > > > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > > > @"Vinceman.4572" said: > > > > > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > > I vote the latter. You can't please everyone, that's no excuse to stop trying to please most players. > > > > And the big question is: Are the most players in GW2 uncomfortable with the game or is it just Ohoni and a few more. I call the latter because there is 0 indication, proof or evidence it's the other way round! > > Only Anet knows the true answer to your big question. And they answered it with the interview at PAX east. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyson.5160 Posted April 10, 2018 Share Posted April 10, 2018 > @"zealex.9410" said: > > @"runeblade.7514" said: > > I would like to see easy difficulty be split into parts. > > > > Easy- 33% difficulty. This difficulty is so that any player can join in with any class and complete the raid boss easily. The purpose of this difficulty is to expose the player on what the boss can do. This difficulty should be hard to fail, there should be no one-shot mechanics in here. > > > > Medium- 66% difficulty. This difficulty requires roles but it is more forgiving than normal mode. Rather than mechanics one-shotting and failing the raid, It puts more pressure. This mode teaches what mechanics hurt a lot and what the player should avoid. > > > > Normal mode- Regular difficulty. > > What about the rewards? I suggested a single legendary insight per wing clear, so 5 LI per week for an easy mode. Currently if you were to do a complete raid clear you get what 17 LI which leads to 9 weeks for the required LI. 5 LI is 30 weeks. So normal mode players get their LI significant faster, roughly 2 and a bit mobthsxwhile easy mode requires 7 months for the LI requirement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ohoni.6057 Posted April 10, 2018 Share Posted April 10, 2018 > @"Miellyn.6847" said: > ArenaNet is still happy with the current implementation of raids. So the raiding population can't be as small as you want it to be. In the current state of the game, yes you have zero chance to change anything. >You protest against the current situation can we say you also protest too much? I'm fighting to change the status quo. You insist that I stand no chance whatsoever of succeeding. and yet you, and others, spend an exorbitant amount of time trying to convince me to stop? Why, if my quest is so utterly futile? And don't even pretend that it's somehow for my own sake, you at least know better than that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyson.5160 Posted April 10, 2018 Share Posted April 10, 2018 > @"Ze Dos Cavalos.6132" said: > A raid Dev should come here and say they will never make raid easy mode so this discussion finish once and for all :expressionless: They decided not to use the word never, but used the word not at this time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astralporing.1957 Posted April 10, 2018 Share Posted April 10, 2018 > @"zealex.9410" said: > What numb3rs do you have to proe that? I have numbers. Telling me that they might not like streams and whatnot is not proof is your opinion. Numbers talk. We have a game that supposedly have over a million players (or at least it apparently had that much afer HoT launched. The numbers might have gone down since then, of course). You have an activity aimed at hardcore players - players that by nature of the content they do need to be more invested/interested about it (most of them for example do watch raid videos, read guides, keep tabs on meta). And in such a group of players, the content that really should hold their interest gathers 4k viewers. Even if you double, triple or even quadruple that number to cover for those that simply didn't have time to watch at that moment, you're still at 1% of the game population at best. You can't do that for casual content though. Why? Because the people watching the streams of casual content being done (which in gw2 would likely be quite boring, to be honest) aren't really casual themselves. Thus, the numbers for those types of stream tell you nothing about the casual population, its flow and ebb, as well as likes and dislikes. YT is far better for that, because (due to your ability to watch the video whenever you want, and by the virtue of being a much more mainstream service) it will have a much greater percentage of casuals watching it (although, there will still be a noticeable overrepresentation of hardcore players) Basically, what you're doing is a great example of selection bias. > @"zealex.9410" said: > The numbers went up. Gw2 everaged lower viewership than it does now. The numbers for a specific submode went up. Which wasn't hard, seeing as that submode did not exist in the beginning, so couldn't have had high numbers before. It has higher numbers than streams on casual content? Also not surprising - hardcore players are more likely to watch content aimed at hardcores after all. It tells us however nothing about the changes in the game as a whole. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyson.5160 Posted April 10, 2018 Share Posted April 10, 2018 > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > > > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > > >You're focusing on how you *want* people to behave rather than on how they actually do. This is your mistake. > > > > > > > > And you believe that you *aren't?* > > > > > > I don't believe it, I know it. I'm not telling you how to *behave*. I'm merely telling you why you're wrong and why the realities of this particular game are not how you think they should be. > > > > But you're basically trying to perpetuate the myth that any player can come to enjoy the raiding lifestyle if they just want it hard enough, which isn't true. Either accept that many players will NEVER be happy with the current situation and that you don't care that they will be unhappy, or work toward their happiness. > > There will *always* be players unhappy with any situation you choose. **Always**. You can't work toward resolving that, for the simple reason that players are different and they ultimately desire different things. What you can work for is a compromise. And a compromise is exactly what the current situation is. You're not into raiding "lifestyle"? Good. You have 95% of the PvE content in the game designed for you. That’s not really a compromise. If my two kids were fighting over a toy, the compromise wouldn’t be that one gets it and the other doesn’t. The compromise would be taking turns using the same toy. It’s not like the raiders only get to enjoy only 5% of the pve game. They get to enjoy 100% of the pve content. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyson.5160 Posted April 10, 2018 Share Posted April 10, 2018 > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > @"Miellyn.6847" said: > > ArenaNet is still happy with the current implementation of raids. So the raiding population can't be as small as you want it to be. In the current state of the game, yes you have zero chance to change anything. > >You protest against the current situation can we say you also protest too much? > > I'm fighting to change the status quo. > > You insist that I stand no chance whatsoever of succeeding. > > and yet you, and others, spend an exorbitant amount of time trying to convince me to stop? > > Why, if my quest is so utterly futile? And don't even pretend that it's somehow for my own sake, you at least know better than that. Fear. My guess is that Anet might listen and make changes... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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