Tyson.5160 Posted April 15, 2018 Share Posted April 15, 2018 > @"zealex.9410" said: > > @"Tyson.5160" said: > > > @"zealex.9410" said: > > > > @"Tyson.5160" said: > > > > > @"zealex.9410" said: > > > > > > @"Tyson.5160" said: > > > > > > > @"zealex.9410" said: > > > > > > > > @"Tyson.5160" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Tyson.5160" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"zealex.9410" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Tyson.5160" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"zealex.9410" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Tyson.5160" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"zealex.9410" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Tyson.5160" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Nope, I most certainly don't have to agree on anything. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You concede by default it's ok. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >I'm burying my face in my hands right now. Figuratively and literally. "The amount of bugs should be negligible"? Oh my... As a rule of thumb, nothing is ever negligible or easy in game development. It often seems so, to outside people, because they imagine small, contained changes. What they fail to take into account is a game is a vast, complex system of interlocked sub-systems. There is very rarely such thing as a "contained" change. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm well aware of the perils of bug-chasing, I do it daily, but my point is, this is largely not changes to *systems,* like adding entirely new mechanics, and mostly just a tweak of existing properties. If an attack works fine dealing 500 damage per hit then it should work just as well dealing 100 per hit. It's easier to go down than up, too. What you're arguing sounds like a "mysticism" argument, "don't tempt the dark gods of the forest, you never know when they will strike." > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Not to mention finding the proper balance between "too challenging for non-raiders" and "complete faceroll" will require a lot of tweaking and even more testing. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And again, getting it right on the first try is a lot less vital than with the initial raid releases, because nobody cares too much if they get it wrong. They can fix it in post. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That’s fine. Then perhaps after finishing Raid Wing 10 they can take a break and develop an easy mode. 10 raid wings should keep people busy especially if they decide to put in a LI cap, which is going add it’s own set of problems. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Doesnt work like that. Those arent 10 new wings, at that point u will be doing wings 1 to 9 for years so an immense w8 for all the easy modes plus wing 10 would flat out kill the scene. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Same thing aplies to fractals and every bit of content in this game, the fact that it looks much doesnt change the fact that ppl have been playing it for years and are bound to get bored of it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So what you are saying is no matter what the suggestion is for an easy mode, even when it won’t interfere with raid development, that you won’t agree with it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > People in this forum don’t even think they will make it to Wing 10. Heck, I’ll take an easy mode when they are done after Wing 8. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Im not saying i dissagree witha story mode or soemthing like that. I dissagree with it giving you the envoy set but that wasnt the point of my post. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This where I would disagree, I think it should award the set, but make it take much longer, this gives the person the incentive to try the normal modes to complete it faster. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I disagree. The set is awarded by beating the raids by overcomming them, you shouldnt get the armor for doing a strictly easier version. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Eh? Yeah but you can buy Raids and do absolutely nothing to get them. I could bring the credit card out and also have the legendary armor too. Really I’m actually surprised that no one is up in arms about Anet supporting that avenue. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You could, but it defeats the purpose. You'd be deliberately going out of your way in order to *not* play the game. There are always players like that, it can't be helped. And it's not a reason to screw up reward structure and incentives for players who *aren't* like that. That is to say, the players who this content was intended in the first place - those who ended up being raiders. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sure but an easy mode could supply the same thing. If it takes the person 7 months to obtain just the first set, and 13 months to obtain the additional sets. There is a natural incentive to want to complete those normal difficulties too, to obtain it faster. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It’s like pvp legendary armor, sure you can lose every match, but why would you? It takes over 3 times longer to lose your way to that armor set, not to mention the nature time gate of that set as well. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It also takes 10 times less effort. > > > > > > > > > > > > What does? The easy mode or the pvp armor? > > > > > > > > > > Losing your way to the pvp legendary. > > > > > > > > Ok, do me a favor, go lose every pvp match in order to obtain the Legendary Armor. You’ll get sick of losing, also the extra time that is pushed on you is enormous. > > > > > > Idc i can just afk there run arou d and have mock duels with others to pass my time. It will take me more time but in the grand scheme of thing i will be done without making a single drop of sweat. > > > > Again, I could do the same with my credit card, zero effort. > > Afking in a pvp match and working, making the money and giving saud money for a skin arent the same. How is running around in pvp getting the Legendary Armor for a long time any different then running around making gold for a long time and buying the raids? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zealex.9410 Posted April 15, 2018 Share Posted April 15, 2018 > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > @"zealex.9410" said: > >Adding dungeon armor to pvp was a bad idea in the first place. > > Why? It allows players who don't want to run dungeons an alternate way to earn those skins. How could that possibly be a bad thing? Would you rather they had to play content that they did not enjoy? Do you genuinely want a game in which players are not enjoying themselves? > > > @"zealex.9410" said: > >Why do you feel entitled to all skins? > > Not "entitled," I just don't see the benefit in players not having positive access to the skins that appeal to them. If a player likes how a give skin works, they should have a fun method of obtaining that skin because there's no reason not to. They have, if they want the cosmetics then they should do the content that provides them. If they want it really bad then they will do the things needed to do if not they wont. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zealex.9410 Posted April 15, 2018 Share Posted April 15, 2018 > @"Tyson.5160" said: > > @"zealex.9410" said: > > > @"Tyson.5160" said: > > > > @"zealex.9410" said: > > > > > @"Tyson.5160" said: > > > > > > @"zealex.9410" said: > > > > > > > @"Tyson.5160" said: > > > > > > > > @"zealex.9410" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Tyson.5160" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Tyson.5160" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"zealex.9410" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Tyson.5160" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"zealex.9410" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Tyson.5160" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"zealex.9410" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Tyson.5160" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Nope, I most certainly don't have to agree on anything. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You concede by default it's ok. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >I'm burying my face in my hands right now. Figuratively and literally. "The amount of bugs should be negligible"? Oh my... As a rule of thumb, nothing is ever negligible or easy in game development. It often seems so, to outside people, because they imagine small, contained changes. What they fail to take into account is a game is a vast, complex system of interlocked sub-systems. There is very rarely such thing as a "contained" change. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm well aware of the perils of bug-chasing, I do it daily, but my point is, this is largely not changes to *systems,* like adding entirely new mechanics, and mostly just a tweak of existing properties. If an attack works fine dealing 500 damage per hit then it should work just as well dealing 100 per hit. It's easier to go down than up, too. What you're arguing sounds like a "mysticism" argument, "don't tempt the dark gods of the forest, you never know when they will strike." > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Not to mention finding the proper balance between "too challenging for non-raiders" and "complete faceroll" will require a lot of tweaking and even more testing. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And again, getting it right on the first try is a lot less vital than with the initial raid releases, because nobody cares too much if they get it wrong. They can fix it in post. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That’s fine. Then perhaps after finishing Raid Wing 10 they can take a break and develop an easy mode. 10 raid wings should keep people busy especially if they decide to put in a LI cap, which is going add it’s own set of problems. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Doesnt work like that. Those arent 10 new wings, at that point u will be doing wings 1 to 9 for years so an immense w8 for all the easy modes plus wing 10 would flat out kill the scene. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Same thing aplies to fractals and every bit of content in this game, the fact that it looks much doesnt change the fact that ppl have been playing it for years and are bound to get bored of it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So what you are saying is no matter what the suggestion is for an easy mode, even when it won’t interfere with raid development, that you won’t agree with it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > People in this forum don’t even think they will make it to Wing 10. Heck, I’ll take an easy mode when they are done after Wing 8. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Im not saying i dissagree witha story mode or soemthing like that. I dissagree with it giving you the envoy set but that wasnt the point of my post. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This where I would disagree, I think it should award the set, but make it take much longer, this gives the person the incentive to try the normal modes to complete it faster. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I disagree. The set is awarded by beating the raids by overcomming them, you shouldnt get the armor for doing a strictly easier version. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Eh? Yeah but you can buy Raids and do absolutely nothing to get them. I could bring the credit card out and also have the legendary armor too. Really I’m actually surprised that no one is up in arms about Anet supporting that avenue. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You could, but it defeats the purpose. You'd be deliberately going out of your way in order to *not* play the game. There are always players like that, it can't be helped. And it's not a reason to screw up reward structure and incentives for players who *aren't* like that. That is to say, the players who this content was intended in the first place - those who ended up being raiders. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sure but an easy mode could supply the same thing. If it takes the person 7 months to obtain just the first set, and 13 months to obtain the additional sets. There is a natural incentive to want to complete those normal difficulties too, to obtain it faster. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It’s like pvp legendary armor, sure you can lose every match, but why would you? It takes over 3 times longer to lose your way to that armor set, not to mention the nature time gate of that set as well. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It also takes 10 times less effort. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What does? The easy mode or the pvp armor? > > > > > > > > > > > > Losing your way to the pvp legendary. > > > > > > > > > > Ok, do me a favor, go lose every pvp match in order to obtain the Legendary Armor. You’ll get sick of losing, also the extra time that is pushed on you is enormous. > > > > > > > > Idc i can just afk there run arou d and have mock duels with others to pass my time. It will take me more time but in the grand scheme of thing i will be done without making a single drop of sweat. > > > > > > Again, I could do the same with my credit card, zero effort. > > > > Afking in a pvp match and working, making the money and giving saud money for a skin arent the same. > > How is running around in pvp getting the Legendary Armor for a long time any different then running around making gold for a long time and buying the raids? One will take you far far faaar longer than the other making the whole deal just undeasonable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zealex.9410 Posted April 15, 2018 Share Posted April 15, 2018 > @"Tyson.5160" said: > > @"zealex.9410" said: > > > @"Tyson.5160" said: > > > > @"zealex.9410" said: > > > > > @"Tyson.5160" said: > > > > > > @"zealex.9410" said: > > > > > > > @"Tyson.5160" said: > > > > > > > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Tyson.5160" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"zealex.9410" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Tyson.5160" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"zealex.9410" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Tyson.5160" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"zealex.9410" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Tyson.5160" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Nope, I most certainly don't have to agree on anything. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You concede by default it's ok. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >I'm burying my face in my hands right now. Figuratively and literally. "The amount of bugs should be negligible"? Oh my... As a rule of thumb, nothing is ever negligible or easy in game development. It often seems so, to outside people, because they imagine small, contained changes. What they fail to take into account is a game is a vast, complex system of interlocked sub-systems. There is very rarely such thing as a "contained" change. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm well aware of the perils of bug-chasing, I do it daily, but my point is, this is largely not changes to *systems,* like adding entirely new mechanics, and mostly just a tweak of existing properties. If an attack works fine dealing 500 damage per hit then it should work just as well dealing 100 per hit. It's easier to go down than up, too. What you're arguing sounds like a "mysticism" argument, "don't tempt the dark gods of the forest, you never know when they will strike." > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Not to mention finding the proper balance between "too challenging for non-raiders" and "complete faceroll" will require a lot of tweaking and even more testing. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And again, getting it right on the first try is a lot less vital than with the initial raid releases, because nobody cares too much if they get it wrong. They can fix it in post. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That’s fine. Then perhaps after finishing Raid Wing 10 they can take a break and develop an easy mode. 10 raid wings should keep people busy especially if they decide to put in a LI cap, which is going add it’s own set of problems. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Doesnt work like that. Those arent 10 new wings, at that point u will be doing wings 1 to 9 for years so an immense w8 for all the easy modes plus wing 10 would flat out kill the scene. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Same thing aplies to fractals and every bit of content in this game, the fact that it looks much doesnt change the fact that ppl have been playing it for years and are bound to get bored of it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So what you are saying is no matter what the suggestion is for an easy mode, even when it won’t interfere with raid development, that you won’t agree with it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > People in this forum don’t even think they will make it to Wing 10. Heck, I’ll take an easy mode when they are done after Wing 8. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Im not saying i dissagree witha story mode or soemthing like that. I dissagree with it giving you the envoy set but that wasnt the point of my post. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This where I would disagree, I think it should award the set, but make it take much longer, this gives the person the incentive to try the normal modes to complete it faster. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I disagree. The set is awarded by beating the raids by overcomming them, you shouldnt get the armor for doing a strictly easier version. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Eh? Yeah but you can buy Raids and do absolutely nothing to get them. I could bring the credit card out and also have the legendary armor too. Really I’m actually surprised that no one is up in arms about Anet supporting that avenue. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You could, but it defeats the purpose. You'd be deliberately going out of your way in order to *not* play the game. There are always players like that, it can't be helped. And it's not a reason to screw up reward structure and incentives for players who *aren't* like that. That is to say, the players who this content was intended in the first place - those who ended up being raiders. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sure but an easy mode could supply the same thing. If it takes the person 7 months to obtain just the first set, and 13 months to obtain the additional sets. There is a natural incentive to want to complete those normal difficulties too, to obtain it faster. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It’s like pvp legendary armor, sure you can lose every match, but why would you? It takes over 3 times longer to lose your way to that armor set, not to mention the nature time gate of that set as well. > > > > > > > > > > > > It also takes 10 times less effort. > > > > > > > > > > What does? The easy mode or the pvp armor? > > > > > > > > Losing your way to the pvp legendary. > > > > > > But your ok with people paying to get Legendary Armor? Where is the effort there? Me whipping out my credit card? > > > > Im not particularly happy about it but thats 1 in every 100 due ti the insane cost that it has. Its alot of gold wasted and ppl know that. > > > > > > Also theres achievement selling since forever fir things ppl find to hard, whats wrong with that? > > It’s still zero effort. I can save up a bunch of gold then buy all the raid bosses and also not spend a dime as an alternate route. The argument of effort for the armor is somewhat ridiculous, I’m alright with a time investment. Either through reduced LI through an easy mode or saving up all my gold, what’s the difference, I’m still cheating the effort portion. Just buying 150 kills and achievents will take you so much gold. At that point you are free to do what ever you want. Besides anet has tried to make it so you cant just buy them all. You need to deal some dmg and stay alive to get some. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyson.5160 Posted April 15, 2018 Share Posted April 15, 2018 > @"zealex.9410" said: > > @"Tyson.5160" said: > > > @"zealex.9410" said: > > > > @"Tyson.5160" said: > > > > > @"zealex.9410" said: > > > > > > @"Tyson.5160" said: > > > > > > > @"zealex.9410" said: > > > > > > > > @"Tyson.5160" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Tyson.5160" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"zealex.9410" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Tyson.5160" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"zealex.9410" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Tyson.5160" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"zealex.9410" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Tyson.5160" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Nope, I most certainly don't have to agree on anything. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You concede by default it's ok. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >I'm burying my face in my hands right now. Figuratively and literally. "The amount of bugs should be negligible"? Oh my... As a rule of thumb, nothing is ever negligible or easy in game development. It often seems so, to outside people, because they imagine small, contained changes. What they fail to take into account is a game is a vast, complex system of interlocked sub-systems. There is very rarely such thing as a "contained" change. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm well aware of the perils of bug-chasing, I do it daily, but my point is, this is largely not changes to *systems,* like adding entirely new mechanics, and mostly just a tweak of existing properties. If an attack works fine dealing 500 damage per hit then it should work just as well dealing 100 per hit. It's easier to go down than up, too. What you're arguing sounds like a "mysticism" argument, "don't tempt the dark gods of the forest, you never know when they will strike." > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Not to mention finding the proper balance between "too challenging for non-raiders" and "complete faceroll" will require a lot of tweaking and even more testing. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And again, getting it right on the first try is a lot less vital than with the initial raid releases, because nobody cares too much if they get it wrong. They can fix it in post. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That’s fine. Then perhaps after finishing Raid Wing 10 they can take a break and develop an easy mode. 10 raid wings should keep people busy especially if they decide to put in a LI cap, which is going add it’s own set of problems. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Doesnt work like that. Those arent 10 new wings, at that point u will be doing wings 1 to 9 for years so an immense w8 for all the easy modes plus wing 10 would flat out kill the scene. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Same thing aplies to fractals and every bit of content in this game, the fact that it looks much doesnt change the fact that ppl have been playing it for years and are bound to get bored of it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So what you are saying is no matter what the suggestion is for an easy mode, even when it won’t interfere with raid development, that you won’t agree with it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > People in this forum don’t even think they will make it to Wing 10. Heck, I’ll take an easy mode when they are done after Wing 8. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Im not saying i dissagree witha story mode or soemthing like that. I dissagree with it giving you the envoy set but that wasnt the point of my post. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This where I would disagree, I think it should award the set, but make it take much longer, this gives the person the incentive to try the normal modes to complete it faster. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I disagree. The set is awarded by beating the raids by overcomming them, you shouldnt get the armor for doing a strictly easier version. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Eh? Yeah but you can buy Raids and do absolutely nothing to get them. I could bring the credit card out and also have the legendary armor too. Really I’m actually surprised that no one is up in arms about Anet supporting that avenue. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You could, but it defeats the purpose. You'd be deliberately going out of your way in order to *not* play the game. There are always players like that, it can't be helped. And it's not a reason to screw up reward structure and incentives for players who *aren't* like that. That is to say, the players who this content was intended in the first place - those who ended up being raiders. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sure but an easy mode could supply the same thing. If it takes the person 7 months to obtain just the first set, and 13 months to obtain the additional sets. There is a natural incentive to want to complete those normal difficulties too, to obtain it faster. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It’s like pvp legendary armor, sure you can lose every match, but why would you? It takes over 3 times longer to lose your way to that armor set, not to mention the nature time gate of that set as well. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It also takes 10 times less effort. > > > > > > > > > > > > What does? The easy mode or the pvp armor? > > > > > > > > > > Losing your way to the pvp legendary. > > > > > > > > But your ok with people paying to get Legendary Armor? Where is the effort there? Me whipping out my credit card? > > > > > > Im not particularly happy about it but thats 1 in every 100 due ti the insane cost that it has. Its alot of gold wasted and ppl know that. > > > > > > > > > Also theres achievement selling since forever fir things ppl find to hard, whats wrong with that? > > > > It’s still zero effort. I can save up a bunch of gold then buy all the raid bosses and also not spend a dime as an alternate route. The argument of effort for the armor is somewhat ridiculous, I’m alright with a time investment. Either through reduced LI through an easy mode or saving up all my gold, what’s the difference, I’m still cheating the effort portion. > > Just buying 150 kills and achievents will take you so much gold. At that point you are free to do what ever you want. > > Besides anet has tried to make it so you cant just buy them all. You need to deal some dmg and stay alive to get some. Well you’ll get the LI from the kills for the achievements, that you would have to pay for, then you could in theory do Escort and Mo and your looking at 14 months if you go those two kills a week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ohoni.6057 Posted April 15, 2018 Share Posted April 15, 2018 > @"zealex.9410" said: > > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > Not "entitled," I just don't see the benefit in players not having positive access to the skins that appeal to them. If a player likes how a give skin works, they should have a fun method of obtaining that skin because there's no reason not to. > > They have, if they want the cosmetics then they should do the content that provides them. If they want it really bad then they will do the things needed to do if not they wont. Why do you think it's a positive to have players working at content that they do not enjoy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyson.5160 Posted April 15, 2018 Share Posted April 15, 2018 > @"zealex.9410" said: > > @"Tyson.5160" said: > > > @"zealex.9410" said: > > > > @"Tyson.5160" said: > > > > > @"zealex.9410" said: > > > > > > @"Tyson.5160" said: > > > > > > > @"zealex.9410" said: > > > > > > > > @"Tyson.5160" said: > > > > > > > > > @"zealex.9410" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Tyson.5160" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Tyson.5160" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"zealex.9410" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Tyson.5160" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"zealex.9410" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Tyson.5160" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"zealex.9410" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Tyson.5160" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Nope, I most certainly don't have to agree on anything. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You concede by default it's ok. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >I'm burying my face in my hands right now. Figuratively and literally. "The amount of bugs should be negligible"? Oh my... As a rule of thumb, nothing is ever negligible or easy in game development. It often seems so, to outside people, because they imagine small, contained changes. What they fail to take into account is a game is a vast, complex system of interlocked sub-systems. There is very rarely such thing as a "contained" change. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm well aware of the perils of bug-chasing, I do it daily, but my point is, this is largely not changes to *systems,* like adding entirely new mechanics, and mostly just a tweak of existing properties. If an attack works fine dealing 500 damage per hit then it should work just as well dealing 100 per hit. It's easier to go down than up, too. What you're arguing sounds like a "mysticism" argument, "don't tempt the dark gods of the forest, you never know when they will strike." > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Not to mention finding the proper balance between "too challenging for non-raiders" and "complete faceroll" will require a lot of tweaking and even more testing. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And again, getting it right on the first try is a lot less vital than with the initial raid releases, because nobody cares too much if they get it wrong. They can fix it in post. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That’s fine. Then perhaps after finishing Raid Wing 10 they can take a break and develop an easy mode. 10 raid wings should keep people busy especially if they decide to put in a LI cap, which is going add it’s own set of problems. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Doesnt work like that. Those arent 10 new wings, at that point u will be doing wings 1 to 9 for years so an immense w8 for all the easy modes plus wing 10 would flat out kill the scene. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Same thing aplies to fractals and every bit of content in this game, the fact that it looks much doesnt change the fact that ppl have been playing it for years and are bound to get bored of it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So what you are saying is no matter what the suggestion is for an easy mode, even when it won’t interfere with raid development, that you won’t agree with it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > People in this forum don’t even think they will make it to Wing 10. Heck, I’ll take an easy mode when they are done after Wing 8. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Im not saying i dissagree witha story mode or soemthing like that. I dissagree with it giving you the envoy set but that wasnt the point of my post. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This where I would disagree, I think it should award the set, but make it take much longer, this gives the person the incentive to try the normal modes to complete it faster. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I disagree. The set is awarded by beating the raids by overcomming them, you shouldnt get the armor for doing a strictly easier version. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Eh? Yeah but you can buy Raids and do absolutely nothing to get them. I could bring the credit card out and also have the legendary armor too. Really I’m actually surprised that no one is up in arms about Anet supporting that avenue. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You could, but it defeats the purpose. You'd be deliberately going out of your way in order to *not* play the game. There are always players like that, it can't be helped. And it's not a reason to screw up reward structure and incentives for players who *aren't* like that. That is to say, the players who this content was intended in the first place - those who ended up being raiders. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sure but an easy mode could supply the same thing. If it takes the person 7 months to obtain just the first set, and 13 months to obtain the additional sets. There is a natural incentive to want to complete those normal difficulties too, to obtain it faster. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It’s like pvp legendary armor, sure you can lose every match, but why would you? It takes over 3 times longer to lose your way to that armor set, not to mention the nature time gate of that set as well. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It also takes 10 times less effort. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What does? The easy mode or the pvp armor? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Losing your way to the pvp legendary. > > > > > > > > > > > > Ok, do me a favor, go lose every pvp match in order to obtain the Legendary Armor. You’ll get sick of losing, also the extra time that is pushed on you is enormous. > > > > > > > > > > Idc i can just afk there run arou d and have mock duels with others to pass my time. It will take me more time but in the grand scheme of thing i will be done without making a single drop of sweat. > > > > > > > > Again, I could do the same with my credit card, zero effort. > > > > > > Afking in a pvp match and working, making the money and giving saud money for a skin arent the same. > > > > How is running around in pvp getting the Legendary Armor for a long time any different then running around making gold for a long time and buying the raids? > > One will take you far far faaar longer than the other making the whole deal just undeasonable. So is running around aimlessly in pvp and going afk in matches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STIHL.2489 Posted April 15, 2018 Share Posted April 15, 2018 A more inclusive game is a better game. No matter how you slice it. Things could change by next week regarding raids, or they might never change. But for the people that feel this would help the game, their goal is to make the game better. So I hope they never give up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feanor.2358 Posted April 15, 2018 Share Posted April 15, 2018 > @"Tyson.5160" said: > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > @"Tyson.5160" said: > > > > @"Rhiannon.1726" said: > > > > When you make Cairn, MO or Escort easier, you'll get raids that are easier and more boring than the dungeon story modes. The dungeon story modes took at least several minutes and had some story, Cairn an MO would be over in less than 5 min without any story happening during the "fight". > > > > > > This would be for those struggling with Cairn and MO, not for those who are able to do it in normal mode. > > > > > > > Honestly, if you're struggling with Cairn and MO then either make some effort and learn to play the game, or just don't bother with raids - they aren't intended for you. No offense meant at all. I mean to say, this content is designed to be the most challenging in the game. Lowering its difficulty to enable players who never were its target audience serves no purpose. It's like wanting to be offered a harness and a bungee rope for getting out of bed. It's missing the whole point, the whole purpose. Missing it by a mile. > > Sure but isn’t this a casual MMO? Wasn’t that the design? Wasn’t that the purpose? Originally, yes. But the game lacked harder content to keep the more hardcore-oriented players in it. The addition of raids was aimed at that - becoming more diverse, and ultimately having a larger playerbase. > @"Tyson.5160" said: > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > @"Tyson.5160" said: > > > > @"Rhiannon.1726" said: > > > > When you make Cairn, MO or Escort easier, you'll get raids that are easier and more boring than the dungeon story modes. The dungeon story modes took at least several minutes and had some story, Cairn an MO would be over in less than 5 min without any story happening during the "fight". > > > > > > This would be for those struggling with Cairn and MO, not for those who are able to do it in normal mode. > > > > > > > Honestly, if you're struggling with Cairn and MO then either make some effort and learn to play the game, or just don't bother with raids - they aren't intended for you. No offense meant at all. I mean to say, this content is designed to be the most challenging in the game. > > Which is fair, but what if you wanted Legendary Armor. See I think there’s some issues here. Give people the challenge, sure, but now your baiting people who want to obtain armor set into playing something they didn't want to play or telling them that this isn’t meant for you. See this Legendary Armor envoy set... it is not meant for you. > And this is different than any other exclusive reward how exactly? All legendaries are gated behind specific content you might or might not enjoy. It's called "incentive". It encourages players to try things they might otherwise not. Envoy armor in particular was the incentive that ended up making me a raider. It doesn't work for everyone, obviously, but it doesn't need to, either. It's a decision everyone takes for themselves - do I want the reward more than I'm intimidated by the task or vice versa? There is no single universally "right" answer, both are fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ohoni.6057 Posted April 15, 2018 Share Posted April 15, 2018 > @"Feanor.2358" said: > Originally, yes. But the game lacked harder content to keep the more hardcore-oriented players in it. The addition of raids was aimed at that - becoming more diverse, and ultimately having a larger playerbase. So, the anti-thesis of "Purity of purpose," right? Instead of focus on developing content for its intended audience, instead developing a version of one for the audience it was never intended? > It encourages players to try things they might otherwise not. Ok, please explain this to me. What is the benefit in encouraging someone to do something they *do not enjoy* for *hundreds of hours?* I totally understand the idea of getting people to *try* new experiences, that's fine, but easily accomplished using rewards that any player can earn with at most a few hours of effort. That motivating factor has nothing whatsoever to do with Envoy Armor's current design. What, to you, is the benefit in encouraging players to *keep* playing a specific content, for hundreds of hours **after** they know that they do not enjoy that content at all, and would prefer to be spending their time in game doing something else entirely? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feanor.2358 Posted April 15, 2018 Share Posted April 15, 2018 > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > Originally, yes. But the game lacked harder content to keep the more hardcore-oriented players in it. The addition of raids was aimed at that - becoming more diverse, and ultimately having a larger playerbase. > > So, the anti-thesis of "Purity of purpose," right? Instead of focus on developing content for its intended audience, instead developing a version of one for the audience it was never intended? It's different. The content for the original audience is still developed. The game is merely expanding its audience. Something that wouldn't happen with your "easy mode", as they don't add anything to the game that is not already in it. > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > > It encourages players to try things they might otherwise not. > > Ok, please explain this to me. What is the benefit in encouraging someone to do something they *do not enjoy* for *hundreds of hours?* I totally understand the idea of getting people to *try* new experiences, that's fine, but easily accomplished using rewards that any player can earn with at most a few hours of effort. That motivating factor has nothing whatsoever to do with Envoy Armor's current design. What, to you, is the benefit in encouraging players to *keep* playing a specific content, for hundreds of hours **after** they know that they do not enjoy that content at all, and would prefer to be spending their time in game doing something else entirely? The point isn't to get players do something they don't enjoy for hundreds of hours. The point is to get people to try it, *and then* give those who liked it something to do for hundreds of hours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sephylon.4938 Posted April 15, 2018 Share Posted April 15, 2018 > @"Tyson.5160" said: > > @"Sephylon.4938" said: > > same could be said about the pvp/wvw skins could it not? > > Yes and no, I’m actually working on a full set of pvp Legendary Armor right now, started working on it when they announced it last year. You have way more control with the progress of pvp/wvw armor. This feels more reminiscent to making a Legendary Weapon, then the Raid set. I can drop 6 hours into pvp and see real progress, where I can drop 8 hours into raids and receive nothing. > What do you mean by "way more control with the progress of pvp/wvw armor"? Moreover, how do you have more control in a pvp/wvw scenario vs a scripted fight with an ai? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
belognom.3685 Posted April 15, 2018 Share Posted April 15, 2018 > @"Feanor.2358" said: > Lowering its difficulty to enable players who never were its target audience serves no purpose. Nobody talks of lowering the difficulty of the current raids. What is this all about is to INTRODUCE a slightly modified versions. Not nerf current once. A version bit forgiving to mistakes. Just a bit, not a one-shot bosses but enough for this community to stop being stresses. In any other game i would go do easy mod 5-10 times till i know the mech by heart. In any other game I would grab a fresh guy/girl with guildies and carry then trough easy mod, explaining basics and letting them to see what is all about. In any other game easy mod raids would drop low tier cap gear (in this case it would be exotic) for fresh guys and girls and we as guild mates would help them to get it thus building that feel of being in a right guild. etc etc etc There are so many things game is missing by not having an easy mod for end-game raids. While I say this I still support the opinion of 'if you are not abbe/willing to do normal mod, why on earth you need leg armor?' Devs already made that top-tier gear isn't a BiS i's juts a convenient item with cosmetic effects. I personally find this really funny. I am one of those old-school gamers that are sure there should be BiS and it should be 'bragging rights' as well as I'm sure there should be easy, hard and dead wish mods to any content. We don't talk of anything but to ADD an easy mod, where people can learn. And if devs would be kind enough to add exotic gear drops( acc bound and salves to nothing but dark matter) to those. I would be that guy that will carry fresh 80s trough them for a chance to get a drop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ohoni.6057 Posted April 15, 2018 Share Posted April 15, 2018 > @"Feanor.2358" said: >It's different. The content for the original audience is still developed. The game is merely expanding its audience. Something that wouldn't happen with your "easy mode", as they don't add anything to the game that is not already in it. So purity of purpose and focusing on the target audience only matters when you agree with it. Ok. >The point isn't to get players do something they don't enjoy for hundreds of hours. Then why not give players access to Envoy armor after they've spent a few hours in raids? Obviously your objection would be "that's too little effort," and I agree they should spend more time than that in total, but why should it *have* to be spent inside raids if they've learned that they definitely do not enjoy raids? Why shouldn't they be allowed to leave and spend the remaining hundreds of hours doing something they would enjoy more? You understand the logical disconnect between your positions, right? That there is a hard break in between "there should be unique rewards [to convince people to give something a try]" and "even after they've *given* it a try and determined whether they enjoy that thing or not, [they should still never get that unique reward unless they invest hundreds of hours in that specific task]," right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feanor.2358 Posted April 15, 2018 Share Posted April 15, 2018 > @"belognom.3685" said: > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > Lowering its difficulty to enable players who never were its target audience serves no purpose. > > Nobody talks of lowering the difficulty of the current raids. What is this all about is to INTRODUCE a slightly modified versions. I'm well aware of that. My point still stands. > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > >It's different. The content for the original audience is still developed. The game is merely expanding its audience. Something that wouldn't happen with your "easy mode", as they don't add anything to the game that is not already in it. > > So purity of purpose and focusing on the target audience only matters when you agree with it. Ok. No, it matters when it does something. Or doesn't, in your case. More diverse game means more players, easy raids do not. > > >The point isn't to get players do something they don't enjoy for hundreds of hours. > > Then why not give players access to Envoy armor after they've spent a few hours in raids? Because that takes away an incentive from the players the content is *intended*. Making the Envoy require a long process enables them to enjoy the same content MUCH longer. You want to take away that - and basically ruin the content - in order to get instant gratification for a bunch of players who never cared about this content in the first place. It makes no sense whatsoever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ohoni.6057 Posted April 15, 2018 Share Posted April 15, 2018 > @"Feanor.2358" said: > No, it matters when it does something. Or doesn't, in your case. More diverse game means more players, easy raids do not. Easy raids means higher satisfaction among current players, which is also a worthwhile goal. The existence of raids *without* easy mode raids has led to player dissatisfaction, and likely *lost* a fair few players as well. I'm sure you can give me anecdotes about people who started the game just for raiding, and I can give you anecdotes about people who quit because of it, but I doubt anything useful would come of that. >Because that takes away an incentive from the players the content is intended. And again, so what? They shouldn't *need* incentive, because they theoretically *enjoy* doing that sort of thing. They need fair reward for their time, certainly, but there's no need for that fair reward to be exclusive to them. There should be long term goals for them to work toward within that content, definitely, but those long term goals can still be pursued elsewhere in the game. If they *are* the "intended audience" for raiding, if raiding is something they actually *want* to do with their time, then raiding is what they should be doing *even when not forced into it.* If you're arguing that raiders will not raid without access to unique rewards, then raiding is not a game mode that should be supported, because clearly nobody actually *wants* to be there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feanor.2358 Posted April 15, 2018 Share Posted April 15, 2018 > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > No, it matters when it does something. Or doesn't, in your case. More diverse game means more players, easy raids do not. > > Easy raids means higher satisfaction among current players, which is also a worthwhile goal. Not really. It means instant gratification for some players who can't be bothered to do it the intended way. It means nothing, and because of that their satisfaction will wear off just as fast as it came. You'll have sacrificed the intended satisfaction, which should have lasted hundreds of hours, for instant gratification lasting just a few. It's not worthwhile by any stretch. And this answers your "so what". You're taking something of value from those who *do* value it and you're giving it to those who *don't* just so they can toy with it for a while and throw it away. You're imagining you'd not be doing that, but you're wrong. People don't behave like you imagine them to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ohoni.6057 Posted April 15, 2018 Share Posted April 15, 2018 > @"Feanor.2358" said: >Not really. It means instant gratification for some players who can't be bothered to do it the intended way. You keep saying things like "instant." I do not think that word means what you think it means. "Instant" means "in a very short amount of *time."* We aren't talking about reducing any amounts of time here. The time involved would remain the same, so "instant" really doesn't apply to anything we're discussing here. >You'll have sacrificed the intended satisfaction, which should have lasted hundreds of hours, for instant gratification lasting just a few. Noooooo. . . Have you actually been reading anything we've been talking about? >And this answers your "so what". You're taking something of value from those who do value it and you're giving it to those who don't just so they can toy with it for a while and throw it away. No, I'm giving something of value to those who value it, whether or not they value the game mode to which it's currently attached. You're imagining that I'm taking something of value from those who do value it and you're giving it to those who don't, but you're wrong. People don't behave like you imagine them to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feanor.2358 Posted April 15, 2018 Share Posted April 15, 2018 No, you're imagining you do that. And I'm telling you what the actual results would be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ohoni.6057 Posted April 15, 2018 Share Posted April 15, 2018 > @"Feanor.2358" said: > No, you're imagining you do that. And I'm telling you what the actual results would be. No, you're imagining you do that. And I'm telling you what the actual results would be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feanor.2358 Posted April 15, 2018 Share Posted April 15, 2018 > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > No, you're imagining you do that. And I'm telling you what the actual results would be. > > No, you're imagining you do that. And I'm telling you what the actual results would be. Nice try. Then I challenge you to explain why all the game design, pretty much ever, agrees with me and *not* with you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vesica tempestas.1563 Posted April 15, 2018 Share Posted April 15, 2018 > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > No, it matters when it does something. Or doesn't, in your case. More diverse game means more players, easy raids do not. > > > > Easy raids means higher satisfaction among current players, which is also a worthwhile goal. > > Not really. It means instant gratification for some players who can't be bothered to do it the intended way. It means nothing, and because of that their satisfaction will wear off just as fast as it came. You'll have sacrificed the intended satisfaction, which should have lasted hundreds of hours, for instant gratification lasting just a few. It's not worthwhile by any stretch. And this answers your "so what". You're taking something of value from those who *do* value it and you're giving it to those who *don't* just so they can toy with it for a while and throw it away. You're imagining you'd not be doing that, but you're wrong. People don't behave like you imagine them to. hence why multiple difficulty levels is required, so the majority of players have less tuned 10 man instances, and existing raiders continue to get what they want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feanor.2358 Posted April 15, 2018 Share Posted April 15, 2018 > @"vesica tempestas.1563" said: > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > > No, it matters when it does something. Or doesn't, in your case. More diverse game means more players, easy raids do not. > > > > > > Easy raids means higher satisfaction among current players, which is also a worthwhile goal. > > > > Not really. It means instant gratification for some players who can't be bothered to do it the intended way. It means nothing, and because of that their satisfaction will wear off just as fast as it came. You'll have sacrificed the intended satisfaction, which should have lasted hundreds of hours, for instant gratification lasting just a few. It's not worthwhile by any stretch. And this answers your "so what". You're taking something of value from those who *do* value it and you're giving it to those who *don't* just so they can toy with it for a while and throw it away. You're imagining you'd not be doing that, but you're wrong. People don't behave like you imagine them to. > > hence why multiple difficulty levels is required, so the majority of players have less tuned 10 man instances, and existing raiders continue to get what they want. I fail to see why. Instanced content of lower difficulties already exists. P.S. Beside getting rewards you didn't actually earn, that is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vesica tempestas.1563 Posted April 15, 2018 Share Posted April 15, 2018 > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > @"vesica tempestas.1563" said: > > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > > > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > > > No, it matters when it does something. Or doesn't, in your case. More diverse game means more players, easy raids do not. > > > > > > > > Easy raids means higher satisfaction among current players, which is also a worthwhile goal. > > > > > > Not really. It means instant gratification for some players who can't be bothered to do it the intended way. It means nothing, and because of that their satisfaction will wear off just as fast as it came. You'll have sacrificed the intended satisfaction, which should have lasted hundreds of hours, for instant gratification lasting just a few. It's not worthwhile by any stretch. And this answers your "so what". You're taking something of value from those who *do* value it and you're giving it to those who *don't* just so they can toy with it for a while and throw it away. You're imagining you'd not be doing that, but you're wrong. People don't behave like you imagine them to. > > > > hence why multiple difficulty levels is required, so the majority of players have less tuned 10 man instances, and existing raiders continue to get what they want. > > I fail to see why. Instanced content of lower difficulties already exists. not 10 man. Its fairly intuitive, the majority do not like current tuning, give the majority 10 man. Current raiders who object to this should ask themselves why is it they feel threatened by giving content that all want to access (including themselves) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feanor.2358 Posted April 15, 2018 Share Posted April 15, 2018 The number of players is irrelevant. In a lower difficulty setting the teamplay isn't even required and players won't take advantage of it anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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