Sephylon.4938 Posted April 25, 2018 Share Posted April 25, 2018 > @"Gaile Gray.6029" said: > It seems to me this thread has become less about the concept of difficulty levels and more about name calling. "Darned Raiders!" "Filthy Casuals!" And so it goes. > > Is there anything left worth saying, in thread spanning nearly five months, 1,500 posts, and 16,000 views? You tell me! probably not. The discussion on how easy raids should be done was almost immediately drowned out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maddoctor.2738 Posted April 25, 2018 Share Posted April 25, 2018 > @"TexZero.7910" said: > The only thing that can stop this is affirmation from the dev team that either they have plans to make an easy mode and have a reward scheme in mind, or Re-posting the quote from Crystal (which will be ignored because Dev Speak) saying No we wont ever do an Easy Mode. > It's highly unlikely for a game developer to say "We won't ever do ", especially if it's something that is the subject of constant debate and discussion. They can only say what is their current stance and leave it at that, as they've done already. Only thing that can stop this, is posters only responding to the sane, and well thought out, parts of an argument and never engage in talk as if they are in a chat room. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexZero.7910 Posted April 25, 2018 Share Posted April 25, 2018 > @"maddoctor.2738" said: > > @"TexZero.7910" said: > > The only thing that can stop this is affirmation from the dev team that either they have plans to make an easy mode and have a reward scheme in mind, or Re-posting the quote from Crystal (which will be ignored because Dev Speak) saying No we wont ever do an Easy Mode. > > > > It's highly unlikely for a game developer to say "We won't ever do ", especially if it's something that is the subject of constant debate and discussion. > They can only say what is their current stance and leave it at that, as they've done already. Only thing that can stop this, is posters only responding to the sane, and well thought out, parts of an argument and never engage in talk as if they are in a chat room. I'm well aware that it's unlikely for them to use such strong language. However, there's times when it's needed and seeing as this is one of those times someone needs to take that role on and be the bearer of bad news for either side so both can move on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyson.5160 Posted April 25, 2018 Share Posted April 25, 2018 Maybe we should stay away from are they or aren’t they talk and look more at these easy mode encounters conceptually. Mechanics etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STIHL.2489 Posted April 25, 2018 Share Posted April 25, 2018 Well, in the end.. Anet should learn from Blizzard's mistake regarding building accessible Raids. If they can't or won't learn from the mistakes of others, then, there is no way they will survive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sephylon.4938 Posted April 25, 2018 Share Posted April 25, 2018 > @"STIHL.2489" said: > Well, in the end.. Anet should learn from Blizzard's mistake regarding building accessible Raids. > > If they can't or won't learn from the mistakes of others, then, there is no way they will survive. Quick question, since I have limited experience with wow (only did trial accounts). Can you do easy mode raids there while under geared to the extent that is being said here (i.e. 100% success chance with little to no difficulty to and from the group)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maddoctor.2738 Posted April 25, 2018 Share Posted April 25, 2018 > @"Tyson.5160" said: > Maybe we should stay away from are they or aren’t they talk and look more at these easy mode encounters conceptually. Mechanics etc. Not on this thread no. That's hardly something you discuss on a thread that has been up for 5 months and has 39 pages already, saying that "let's forget the last 39 pages and finally discuss the actual topic" isn't going to work. Hence why half-jokingly in that thread about splitting fractals and raids in separate sub-forums I suggested to make instead a sub-forum about discussing easy modes. Now that I think about it, it might not even be such a joke, and instead of being only about "easy mode raids", which is too narrow a topic for an actual sub-forum, it could be called "Design Corner". A place where players can come on and discuss mechanics and encounter designs of everything in the game, from Raids to open world content, from story fights to world bosses. Let's give the developers some good ideas on how to make their encounters more exciting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sephylon.4938 Posted April 25, 2018 Share Posted April 25, 2018 yeah, tried doing that here and I just ended up getting drowned out by the preexisting topics Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyson.5160 Posted April 25, 2018 Share Posted April 25, 2018 Well the entire thread is simply going yes or no in some futile attempt to convince the devs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feanor.2358 Posted April 25, 2018 Share Posted April 25, 2018 > @"maddoctor.2738" said: > Let's give the developers some good ideas on how to make their encounters more exciting. That's... rather ambitious. I'm not saying players can't come up with ideas that are actually good, but do you honestly believe such an endeavor would have any meaningful success rate? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyson.5160 Posted April 25, 2018 Share Posted April 25, 2018 > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > @"maddoctor.2738" said: > > Let's give the developers some good ideas on how to make their encounters more exciting. > > That's... rather ambitious. I'm not saying players can't come up with ideas that are actually good, but do you honestly believe such an endeavor would have any meaningful success rate? Well we can argue yes or no for another 5 months. That sounds fun! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreyWolf.8670 Posted April 25, 2018 Share Posted April 25, 2018 > @"Sephylon.4938" said: > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > Well, in the end.. Anet should learn from Blizzard's mistake regarding building accessible Raids. > > > > If they can't or won't learn from the mistakes of others, then, there is no way they will survive. > > Quick question, since I have limited experience with wow (only did trial accounts). Can you do easy mode raids there while under geared to the extent that is being said here (i.e. 100% success chance with little to no difficulty to and from the group)? Not really. The raid finder will not let you queue if your average item level is under a certain threshold. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MithranArkanere.8957 Posted April 25, 2018 Share Posted April 25, 2018 As I see it, the better solution is how T4 Fractals work. * There should only be 1 Normal mode, and then repeatable CM that can be enabled at the start inside the instance. * Some bosses will always be more difficult than others, some easier to pug than others. * Most of the difficulty, specially for CM, will actually be on learning the mechanics and getting competent teammates, not on getting some specific meta build with some specific gear and attributes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sephylon.4938 Posted April 25, 2018 Share Posted April 25, 2018 > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > @"maddoctor.2738" said: > > Let's give the developers some good ideas on how to make their encounters more exciting. > > That's... rather ambitious. I'm not saying players can't come up with ideas that are actually good, but do you honestly believe such an endeavor would have any meaningful success rate? it'd be something new to argue at least. This current song and dance has grown stale, wouldn't you agree? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nia.4725 Posted April 25, 2018 Share Posted April 25, 2018 > @"MithranArkanere.8957" said: > As I see it, the better solution is how T4 Fractals work. > > * There should only be 1 Normal mode, and then repeatable CM that can be enabled at the start inside the instance. > * Some bosses will always be more difficult than others, some easier to pug than others. > * Most of the difficulty, specially for CM, will actually be on learning the mechanics and getting competent teammates, not on getting some specific meta build with some specific gear and attributes. > And that's what we have at the moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maddoctor.2738 Posted April 25, 2018 Share Posted April 25, 2018 > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > @"maddoctor.2738" said: > > Let's give the developers some good ideas on how to make their encounters more exciting. > > That's... rather ambitious. I'm not saying players can't come up with ideas that are actually good, but do you honestly believe such an endeavor would have any meaningful success rate? Only one way to find out :) And besides, it wouldn't cost the developers much, if anything it would help them with much better targeted suggestions than multi-page multi-merged threads. I think the old suggestions forum was supposed to be like this, but that was way too broad as it contained suggestions about everything. Of course I've gone completely off-topic now, no point discussing this here, it's up to the developers anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sephylon.4938 Posted April 25, 2018 Share Posted April 25, 2018 pluging in a beep https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/37656/how-would-an-easy-mode-raid-work-vg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sephylon.4938 Posted April 25, 2018 Share Posted April 25, 2018 > @"GreyWolf.8670" said: > > @"Sephylon.4938" said: > > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > Well, in the end.. Anet should learn from Blizzard's mistake regarding building accessible Raids. > > > > > > If they can't or won't learn from the mistakes of others, then, there is no way they will survive. > > > > Quick question, since I have limited experience with wow (only did trial accounts). Can you do easy mode raids there while under geared to the extent that is being said here (i.e. 100% success chance with little to no difficulty to and from the group)? > > Not really. The raid finder will not let you queue if your average item level is under a certain threshold. since we don't have gear tiers to the extent of wow in gw2 and rely mostly on skill, how would that translate then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MithranArkanere.8957 Posted April 25, 2018 Share Posted April 25, 2018 > @"nia.4725" said: > > @"MithranArkanere.8957" said: > > As I see it, the better solution is how T4 Fractals work. > > > > * There should only be 1 Normal mode, and then repeatable CM that can be enabled at the start inside the instance. > > * Some bosses will always be more difficult than others, some easier to pug than others. > > * Most of the difficulty, specially for CM, will actually be on learning the mechanics and getting competent teammates, not on getting some specific meta build with some specific gear and attributes. > > > > And that's what we have at the moment. When was the last time you got rewards from repeating a raid CM? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nia.4725 Posted April 25, 2018 Share Posted April 25, 2018 > @"MithranArkanere.8957" said: > > @"nia.4725" said: > > > @"MithranArkanere.8957" said: > > > As I see it, the better solution is how T4 Fractals work. > > > > > > * There should only be 1 Normal mode, and then repeatable CM that can be enabled at the start inside the instance. > > > * Some bosses will always be more difficult than others, some easier to pug than others. > > > * Most of the difficulty, specially for CM, will actually be on learning the mechanics and getting competent teammates, not on getting some specific meta build with some specific gear and attributes. > > > > > > > And that's what we have at the moment. > > When was the last time you got rewards from repeating a raid CM? Oh, I didn't understand properly that part and you're right. We don't have that, and it would be really nice to have some kind of little incentive to repeat CMs -as I said on reddit on a thread about it, 10 magnetite shards per CM and week would be cool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STIHL.2489 Posted April 25, 2018 Share Posted April 25, 2018 > @"Sephylon.4938" said: > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > Well, in the end.. Anet should learn from Blizzard's mistake regarding building accessible Raids. > > > > If they can't or won't learn from the mistakes of others, then, there is no way they will survive. > > Quick question, since I have limited experience with wow (only did trial accounts). Can you do easy mode raids there while under geared to the extent that is being said here (i.e. 100% success chance with little to no difficulty to and from the group)? I don't think anyone is asking for 0% chance of failure, so this question is moot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sephylon.4938 Posted April 25, 2018 Share Posted April 25, 2018 > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > @"Sephylon.4938" said: > > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > Well, in the end.. Anet should learn from Blizzard's mistake regarding building accessible Raids. > > > > > > If they can't or won't learn from the mistakes of others, then, there is no way they will survive. > > > > Quick question, since I have limited experience with wow (only did trial accounts). Can you do easy mode raids there while under geared to the extent that is being said here (i.e. 100% success chance with little to no difficulty to and from the group)? > > I don't think anyone is asking for 0% chance of failure, so this question is moot. From mechanics, yes it has been, from boss' auto attacks, no it has not. Though that contradicts the demands of some to nerf boss damage imo. We can talk more about it here https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/37656/how-would-an-easy-mode-raid-work-vg#latest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STIHL.2489 Posted April 25, 2018 Share Posted April 25, 2018 But in the end.. the problem with this thread and all the others is that Raiders are like "_I dunna wanna give up mah lootz!_" Like trying to explain the _virtues of_ charity to someone that never learned to share. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sephylon.4938 Posted April 25, 2018 Share Posted April 25, 2018 The discussion there is about easy mode fights, the loot itself is for another time once all has been said and done about how it should work. If you have any suggestions make it more manageable for an inexperienced group, please, I welcome you to share it there. edit there is a rule though: please separate yourselves from your ideas, and criticize the idea not the person Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlaqueFyre.5678 Posted April 25, 2018 Share Posted April 25, 2018 A few Key points that need to be stated since this is Anet’s Stance on the Matter and is extremely relevant to this thread: Crystal Reid: “In the past year and a half, the overall skill level of the Guild Wars raiding community has risen at a staggering pace. Naturally, content will seem easier now as players continue to refine their theorycrafting and personal skill. Our goal is not to make content easier, but rather add an additional layer of difficulty onto the challenge motes where it makes sense.” “Tier systems for Raids come up a lot as a result of what Fractals did. I worked on the original Fractals team and a tiered system with increased difficulty scaling was always part of the original plan for that team. It was never a plan for Raids. They are, and should remain, the most difficult content in the game. Accessibility in terms of difficulty is something we talk a lot about internally. We’ve made efforts to help players get in by delivering entry level encounters that ease you into the content (STK)” So from these posts we can see their clear intent on Raid Difficulty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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