Do raids need easy/normal/hard difficulty mode? [merged]

[maddoctor.2738]

> @"Astralporing.1957" said:

> > @"maddoctor.2738" said:

> > > @"Astralporing.1957" said:

> > > > @"maddoctor.2738" said:

> > > > "Skipping dungeons right into raiding" is also an impossibility.

> > > ...i happen to know a few of those impossibilities. At least one of them skipped fractals as well.

> > >

> > > Seriously, people do things for multitide of reasons, which quite often are not very logical.

> > >

> >

> > Wow. They skipped dungeons and fractals because others who didn't dragged them in, or they joined 9 others directly into Raids skipping dungeons and fractals?

> They joined the game after HoT, when dungeons were already considered to be dead content, and thus were never even interested in them.

>

 

What about Fractals? They aren't dead

[Astralporing.1957]

> @"maddoctor.2738" said:

> > @"Astralporing.1957" said:

> > > @"maddoctor.2738" said:

> > > > @"Astralporing.1957" said:

> > > > > @"maddoctor.2738" said:

> > > > > "Skipping dungeons right into raiding" is also an impossibility.

> > > > ...i happen to know a few of those impossibilities. At least one of them skipped fractals as well.

> > > >

> > > > Seriously, people do things for multitide of reasons, which quite often are not very logical.

> > > >

> > >

> > > Wow. They skipped dungeons and fractals because others who didn't dragged them in, or they joined 9 others directly into Raids skipping dungeons and fractals?

> > They joined the game after HoT, when dungeons were already considered to be dead content, and thus were never even interested in them.

> >

>

> What about Fractals? They aren't dead

In this case i'm not sure. I never heard an explanation. Although that one was an oldshool MMO player that generally was after "endgame content", so he might have thought that since he doesn't need to do intermediate dungeons/raids to get to the endgame ones, he shouldn't be worrying about them at all. That one definitely wasn't "easy mode" target.

 

[Feanor.2358]

> @"Astralporing.1957" said:

> > @"Feanor.2358" said:

> > > @"Astralporing.1957" said:

> > > > @"Feanor.2358" said:

> > > > I beg to differ. The game designers have much better understanding of what makes a game fun than players.

> > > Past experiences (and not only of GW2, but of the game market in general) shows otherwise. Somethimes the devs do not know that even if they happen to play the game they develop. Devs assuming that other players liking the same things they personally do is a common occurence. Marketing overruling devs to introduce elements that are no fun but someone thought they might be _profitable_ is even more common one. And of course most of the devs (to say nothing of marketing) do _not_ in fact play their games.

> >

> > LOL, really? Point me to one MMO which was *not* designed by professionals and you've played. Your past experiences only show they aren't infallible. Such revelation! Jumping to the conclusion that players would do better is like concluding a baker driving to work every day could design a better petrol engine than the actual engineers. Come on...

> That's not what you claimed. Yes, MMOs are being designed by professionals. It means they are better at making a game than your average player. This _doesn't_ mean they know better than said player what makes that game fun for him.

 

It may come as a surprise, but games aren't meant to be fun for you *specifically*.

[Astralporing.1957]

> @"Feanor.2358" said:

> > @"Astralporing.1957" said:

> > > @"Feanor.2358" said:

> > > > @"Astralporing.1957" said:

> > > > > @"Feanor.2358" said:

> > > > > I beg to differ. The game designers have much better understanding of what makes a game fun than players.

> > > > Past experiences (and not only of GW2, but of the game market in general) shows otherwise. Somethimes the devs do not know that even if they happen to play the game they develop. Devs assuming that other players liking the same things they personally do is a common occurence. Marketing overruling devs to introduce elements that are no fun but someone thought they might be _profitable_ is even more common one. And of course most of the devs (to say nothing of marketing) do _not_ in fact play their games.

> > >

> > > LOL, really? Point me to one MMO which was *not* designed by professionals and you've played. Your past experiences only show they aren't infallible. Such revelation! Jumping to the conclusion that players would do better is like concluding a baker driving to work every day could design a better petrol engine than the actual engineers. Come on...

> > That's not what you claimed. Yes, MMOs are being designed by professionals. It means they are better at making a game than your average player. This _doesn't_ mean they know better than said player what makes that game fun for him.

>

> It may come as a surprise, but games aren't meant to be fun for you *specifically*.

No, they aren't. My point still stands. The fact that for every game that succeeds there's a ton that fails (including AAA titles) shows clearly that the developers as a group aren't all that good at guessing what their players want at all.

 

[Lonami.2987]

> @"Blaeys.3102" said:

> It is good to see the poll numbers supporting points that many of us have been making for years (seems weird, but yes, years) now.

>

> I know it is a small sample size, but given that the poll is on the raiding subforums - where you would expect the hardcore raiders to have the loudest voice - I think it is telling and worthy of Anet's attention and consideration (even if their past plans did not involve considering this action - plans can, and should change when it is obvious that change is wanted).

 

It was in the general forums before, where the rate was 70-30. Then it was moved to the raid forums, where it got 50-50, but it's slowly recovering.

 

If the thread hadn't been moved, the numbers would be pretty surprising.

 

> @"Dreddo.9865" said:

> I am surprised to see some think everything is fine while half Raids LFG is like "Selling FC, Whisper for Discounted prices". ^^

>

> Now imagine what would happen if all instanced content were that way. Say people starting the game and wanting to do some dungeons or fractals. Raids have brought so much corruption into the relatively good spirit of the PvE community. This corruption is starting to pollute even top tier fractals. "Show KP to do Challenge mode" they say.

>

> To take it a step further this "Selling scene" reminds me of some cheap MMO I played 20 years ago where chinese groups were farming for 0,00000x% rare drops to RMT. Not the same activity but exactly the same attitude.

>

> Signs of decay? Who knows only future will tell.

 

Most advocates against easy mode are probably raid sellers. Would explain lot of things.

 

It's like a farmer complaining about a new farm that ruins his profitable business.

[Feanor.2358]

> @"Astralporing.1957" said:

> > @"Feanor.2358" said:

> > > @"Astralporing.1957" said:

> > > > @"Feanor.2358" said:

> > > > > @"Astralporing.1957" said:

> > > > > > @"Feanor.2358" said:

> > > > > > I beg to differ. The game designers have much better understanding of what makes a game fun than players.

> > > > > Past experiences (and not only of GW2, but of the game market in general) shows otherwise. Somethimes the devs do not know that even if they happen to play the game they develop. Devs assuming that other players liking the same things they personally do is a common occurence. Marketing overruling devs to introduce elements that are no fun but someone thought they might be _profitable_ is even more common one. And of course most of the devs (to say nothing of marketing) do _not_ in fact play their games.

> > > >

> > > > LOL, really? Point me to one MMO which was *not* designed by professionals and you've played. Your past experiences only show they aren't infallible. Such revelation! Jumping to the conclusion that players would do better is like concluding a baker driving to work every day could design a better petrol engine than the actual engineers. Come on...

> > > That's not what you claimed. Yes, MMOs are being designed by professionals. It means they are better at making a game than your average player. This _doesn't_ mean they know better than said player what makes that game fun for him.

> >

> > It may come as a surprise, but games aren't meant to be fun for you *specifically*.

> No, they aren't. My point still stands. The fact that for every game that succeeds there's a ton that fails (including AAA titles) shows clearly that the developers as a group aren't all that good at guessing what their players want at all.

>

 

This particular game has survived very well for an extended period of time. That's not as common among MMOs. So it would appear the developers in question are doing fine, no?

[Vinceman.4572]

> @"Lonami.2987" said:

> > @"Blaeys.3102" said:

> > It is good to see the poll numbers supporting points that many of us have been making for years (seems weird, but yes, years) now.

> >

> > I know it is a small sample size, but given that the poll is on the raiding subforums - where you would expect the hardcore raiders to have the loudest voice - I think it is telling and worthy of Anet's attention and consideration (even if their past plans did not involve considering this action - plans can, and should change when it is obvious that change is wanted).

>

> It was in the general forums before, where the rate was 70-30. Then it was moved to the raid forums, where it got 50-50, but it's slowly recovering.

>

> If the thread hadn't been moved, the numbers would be pretty surprising.

>

> > @"Dreddo.9865" said:

> > I am surprised to see some think everything is fine while half Raids LFG is like "Selling FC, Whisper for Discounted prices". ^^

> >

> > Now imagine what would happen if all instanced content were that way. Say people starting the game and wanting to do some dungeons or fractals. Raids have brought so much corruption into the relatively good spirit of the PvE community. This corruption is starting to pollute even top tier fractals. "Show KP to do Challenge mode" they say.

> >

> > To take it a step further this "Selling scene" reminds me of some cheap MMO I played 20 years ago where chinese groups were farming for 0,00000x% rare drops to RMT. Not the same activity but exactly the same attitude.

> >

> > Signs of decay? Who knows only future will tell.

>

> Most advocates against easy mode are probably raid sellers. Would explain lot of things.

>

> It's like a farmer complaining about a new farm that ruins his profitable business.

 

Actually there are almost no sellers in this forum. nia and I were his only responders and we definitely aren't selling raids. The only one stating openly in this forum that he is selling raids is Samara. So, you better stop provoking and spreading false suggestions.

[nia.4725]

> @"Vinceman.4572" said:

> > @"Lonami.2987" said:

> > > @"Blaeys.3102" said:

> > > It is good to see the poll numbers supporting points that many of us have been making for years (seems weird, but yes, years) now.

> > >

> > > I know it is a small sample size, but given that the poll is on the raiding subforums - where you would expect the hardcore raiders to have the loudest voice - I think it is telling and worthy of Anet's attention and consideration (even if their past plans did not involve considering this action - plans can, and should change when it is obvious that change is wanted).

> >

> > It was in the general forums before, where the rate was 70-30. Then it was moved to the raid forums, where it got 50-50, but it's slowly recovering.

> >

> > If the thread hadn't been moved, the numbers would be pretty surprising.

> >

> > > @"Dreddo.9865" said:

> > > I am surprised to see some think everything is fine while half Raids LFG is like "Selling FC, Whisper for Discounted prices". ^^

> > >

> > > Now imagine what would happen if all instanced content were that way. Say people starting the game and wanting to do some dungeons or fractals. Raids have brought so much corruption into the relatively good spirit of the PvE community. This corruption is starting to pollute even top tier fractals. "Show KP to do Challenge mode" they say.

> > >

> > > To take it a step further this "Selling scene" reminds me of some cheap MMO I played 20 years ago where chinese groups were farming for 0,00000x% rare drops to RMT. Not the same activity but exactly the same attitude.

> > >

> > > Signs of decay? Who knows only future will tell.

> >

> > Most advocates against easy mode are probably raid sellers. Would explain lot of things.

> >

> > It's like a farmer complaining about a new farm that ruins his profitable business.

>

> Actually there are almost no sellers in this forum. nia and I were his only responders and we definitely aren't selling raids. The only one stating openly in this forum that he is selling raids is Samara. So, you better stop provoking and spreading false suggestions.

 

What the hell. I have never ever sold a raid. The reasons why we desapprove an easy mode haven been already told many times.

[Sykper.6583]

I'm a little confused about the perception that the 'poll' shows a correlation that the raids need to be changed.

 

We have 30% of those polled that say they are fine the way they are. If we even pretended that the poll was significant, that's a significantly higher percent of players who presumably raid and find the content fine the way it is.

 

**Only 46% find the content could use easy and hard modes. More than half of those polled do not agree with the contending argument that raids need additional modes.** The poll shows there's not anything remotely close to a super majority that think raids need to be changed, and that there's a greater than expected amount of players who enjoy them as is. Again, if we really wanted to take the poll as any sort of value.

[Ohoni.6057]

> @"Voltekka.2375" said:

> It almost feels like people want mechanics to be removed so raids can become mini core world bosses everyone can kill with 1-1-1-2.But with waaaaaaay better shinies. Almost.

 

Yes, that is how a strawman argument works, when instead of addressing the point someone is making, you address "almost" what they are saying.

 

> @"Sykper.6583" said:

> I'm a little confused about the perception that the 'poll' shows a correlation that the raids need to be changed.

>

> We have 30% of those polled that say they are fine the way they are. If we even pretended that the poll was significant, that's a significantly higher percent of players who presumably raid and find the content fine the way it is.

 

And that result would be expected, given the situation, but that does not mean that "so do nothing" is the appropriate outcome here. If 30% are fine with raids how they are, then that's great, because most solutions involve **not changing the existing raids at all,** so they can continue to enjoy them. Changes would be for the remaining players.

 

> **Only 46% find the content could use easy and hard modes. More than half of those polled do not agree with the contending argument that raids need additional modes.** The poll shows there's not anything remotely close to a super majority that think raids need to be changed, and that there's a greater than expected amount of players who enjoy them as is. Again, if we really wanted to take the poll as any sort of value.

 

That's not an accurate reading of the data.

 

46% think that BOTH an easy and hard mode should be added.

 

**53%** Want an easy mode.

 

**53%** Want a hard mode.

 

7% don't want the other side's difficulty mode for various reasons (I'm one of those, not because I directly oppose a hard mode, but just because I view it as being less necessary given the existing state of the content), but that doesn't mean that they would flip the table if they got the mode they wanted at the "cost" of the other mode also existing.

 

53% may be a slim majority, but it is still a majority, no supermajority is necessary, and even a plaurality view would be worth considering.

 

Again, this isn't about making a mode that *everyone* would play and enjoy, that's a pipe dream. This is about whether there is room to significantly *expand* the number of players, and/or to *improve* the play experience for existing players.

 

 

[Dreddo.9865]

> @"Vinceman.4572" said:

> Dunno if you are in EU or not. Ofc there are sellers but the majority of raid lfgs during prime time is not about selling.

I am in EU and most of the times I check I see a 50% ratio of sellers/recruiters and at non-prime times even higher. :)

 

> @"BlaqueFyre.5678" said:

> Fun fact before Raids and even before Fractals players were Selling Dungeons paths, nothing has changed, people keep saying that Toxicity/corruption/new buzzword of the month has increase, but have yet to prove that it has and all signs show that the exact things existed just as much of not more long before.

Even if 'Selling content existed long before' doesn't make it a good thing or healthy for the community. Now imagine yourself being a new player opening Raids LFG and see the numerous selling groups, what impression would that make to you, honestly?

 

[BlaqueFyre.5678]

> @"Dreddo.9865" said:

> > @"Vinceman.4572" said:

> > Dunno if you are in EU or not. Ofc there are sellers but the majority of raid lfgs during prime time is not about selling.

> I am in EU and most of the times I check I see a 50% ratio of sellers/recruiters and at non-prime times even higher. :)

>

> > @"BlaqueFyre.5678" said:

> > Fun fact before Raids and even before Fractals players were Selling Dungeons paths, nothing has changed, people keep saying that Toxicity/corruption/new buzzword of the month has increase, but have yet to prove that it has and all signs show that the exact things existed just as much of not more long before.

> Even if 'Selling content existed long before' doesn't make it a good thing or healthy for the community. Now imagine yourself being a new player opening Raids LFG and see the numerous selling groups, what impression would that make to you, honestly?

>

 

It wouldn’t mean anything, and again it’s not indicative of anything even when content was fresh and new it was being sold by those that has it on farm and could low man it.

[Sykper.6583]

> @"Ohoni.6057" said:

> **53%** Want an easy mode.

>

> **53%** Want a hard mode.

>

 

30% of those 53% do not want any changes.

 

It's 23%. 23% is what it is.

 

 

[Ohoni.6057]

> @"Sykper.6583" said:

> > @"Ohoni.6057" said:

> > **53%** Want an easy mode.

> >

> > **53%** Want a hard mode.

> >

>

> 30% of those 53% do not want any changes.

>

> It's 23%. 23% is what it is.

 

. . .

 

That's not how numbers work.

 

That's nothing *like* how numbers work.

 

The 30% of people who want no change, are not included within the 53% that want an easy mode or a the 53% that want a hard mode, their views are *in opposition to* either of those positions. The 30% are part of the remaining *47%,* not part of the 53% groups. They have been fully accounted for.

[Lonami.2987]

> @"Vinceman.4572" said:

> > @"Lonami.2987" said:

> > > @"Blaeys.3102" said:

> > > It is good to see the poll numbers supporting points that many of us have been making for years (seems weird, but yes, years) now.

> > >

> > > I know it is a small sample size, but given that the poll is on the raiding subforums - where you would expect the hardcore raiders to have the loudest voice - I think it is telling and worthy of Anet's attention and consideration (even if their past plans did not involve considering this action - plans can, and should change when it is obvious that change is wanted).

> >

> > It was in the general forums before, where the rate was 70-30. Then it was moved to the raid forums, where it got 50-50, but it's slowly recovering.

> >

> > If the thread hadn't been moved, the numbers would be pretty surprising.

> >

> > > @"Dreddo.9865" said:

> > > I am surprised to see some think everything is fine while half Raids LFG is like "Selling FC, Whisper for Discounted prices". ^^

> > >

> > > Now imagine what would happen if all instanced content were that way. Say people starting the game and wanting to do some dungeons or fractals. Raids have brought so much corruption into the relatively good spirit of the PvE community. This corruption is starting to pollute even top tier fractals. "Show KP to do Challenge mode" they say.

> > >

> > > To take it a step further this "Selling scene" reminds me of some cheap MMO I played 20 years ago where chinese groups were farming for 0,00000x% rare drops to RMT. Not the same activity but exactly the same attitude.

> > >

> > > Signs of decay? Who knows only future will tell.

> >

> > Most advocates against easy mode are probably raid sellers. Would explain lot of things.

> >

> > It's like a farmer complaining about a new farm that ruins his profitable business.

>

> Actually there are almost no sellers in this forum. nia and I were his only responders and we definitely aren't selling raids. The only one stating openly in this forum that he is selling raids is Samara. So, you better stop provoking and spreading false suggestions.

 

Like some other people's false suggestions that we only want easy mode just to get free loot and such?

 

Also, I'm not pointing fingers at anyone. You're the one taking it personally.

 

> @"Sykper.6583" said:

> I'm a little confused about the perception that the 'poll' shows a correlation that the raids need to be changed.

>

> We have 30% of those polled that say they are fine the way they are. If we even pretended that the poll was significant, that's a significantly higher percent of players who presumably raid and find the content fine the way it is.

>

> **Only 46% find the content could use easy and hard modes. More than half of those polled do not agree with the contending argument that raids need additional modes.** The poll shows there's not anything remotely close to a super majority that think raids need to be changed, and that there's a greater than expected amount of players who enjoy them as is. Again, if we really wanted to take the poll as any sort of value.

 

53% want easy mode, and only 31% think raids are fine as they are.

 

It's basic math there. You can't spin it.

[Sykper.6583]

> @"Ohoni.6057" said:

> That's not how numbers work.

>

> That's nothing *like* how numbers work.

>

> The 30% of people who want no change, are not included within the 53% that want an easy mode or a the 53% that want a hard mode, their views are *in opposition to* either of those positions. The 30% are part of the remaining *47%,* not part of the 53% groups. They have been fully accounted for.

 

No no no. Again you are misunderstanding here.

 

47% want easy and hard modes, *which is what it plainly says contrary to what Lonami states*.

 

Without even looking at the other choices, we assuming the remaining 53% didn't agree, and that's further split.

 

30% don't want easy and hard mode, and actually THINK raiding is fine the way it is. Out of 53%, 30% want no changes.

 

That's there, right there in the poll. Only 23% (which is split on things like Hard mode only, easy mode only, need better solution, etc.) is what you should have derived.

[nia.4725]

> @"Lonami.2987" said:

> > @"Vinceman.4572" said:

> > > @"Lonami.2987" said:

> > > > @"Blaeys.3102" said:

> > > > It is good to see the poll numbers supporting points that many of us have been making for years (seems weird, but yes, years) now.

> > > >

> > > > I know it is a small sample size, but given that the poll is on the raiding subforums - where you would expect the hardcore raiders to have the loudest voice - I think it is telling and worthy of Anet's attention and consideration (even if their past plans did not involve considering this action - plans can, and should change when it is obvious that change is wanted).

> > >

> > > It was in the general forums before, where the rate was 70-30. Then it was moved to the raid forums, where it got 50-50, but it's slowly recovering.

> > >

> > > If the thread hadn't been moved, the numbers would be pretty surprising.

> > >

> > > > @"Dreddo.9865" said:

> > > > I am surprised to see some think everything is fine while half Raids LFG is like "Selling FC, Whisper for Discounted prices". ^^

> > > >

> > > > Now imagine what would happen if all instanced content were that way. Say people starting the game and wanting to do some dungeons or fractals. Raids have brought so much corruption into the relatively good spirit of the PvE community. This corruption is starting to pollute even top tier fractals. "Show KP to do Challenge mode" they say.

> > > >

> > > > To take it a step further this "Selling scene" reminds me of some cheap MMO I played 20 years ago where chinese groups were farming for 0,00000x% rare drops to RMT. Not the same activity but exactly the same attitude.

> > > >

> > > > Signs of decay? Who knows only future will tell.

> > >

> > > Most advocates against easy mode are probably raid sellers. Would explain lot of things.

> > >

> > > It's like a farmer complaining about a new farm that ruins his profitable business.

> >

> > Actually there are almost no sellers in this forum. nia and I were his only responders and we definitely aren't selling raids. The only one stating openly in this forum that he is selling raids is Samara. So, you better stop provoking and spreading false suggestions.

>

> Like some other people's false suggestions that we only want easy mode just to get free loot and such?

>

> Also, I'm not pointing fingers at anyone. You're the one taking it personally.

>

> > @"Sykper.6583" said:

> > I'm a little confused about the perception that the 'poll' shows a correlation that the raids need to be changed.

> >

> > We have 30% of those polled that say they are fine the way they are. If we even pretended that the poll was significant, that's a significantly higher percent of players who presumably raid and find the content fine the way it is.

> >

> > **Only 46% find the content could use easy and hard modes. More than half of those polled do not agree with the contending argument that raids need additional modes.** The poll shows there's not anything remotely close to a super majority that think raids need to be changed, and that there's a greater than expected amount of players who enjoy them as is. Again, if we really wanted to take the poll as any sort of value.

>

> 53% want easy mode, and only 31% think raids are fine as they are.

>

> It's basic math there. You can't spin it.

 

How many people do you think that sell raids? Because they are not many. And I don't think a lot of them are actually interested in wasting time here arguing.

[maddoctor.2738]

> @"Lonami.2987" said:

> 53% want easy mode, and only 31% think raids are fine as they are.

 

I'm confused because I read that 7% want an easy mode not 53%

Since when does "We need **both** easy and hard modes" counts as they want an easy mode? For all you know everyone that voted that wants both at once and not only one (it's in the wording) and if it was impossible to get both, they'd choose something different than "we want an easy mode".

[nia.4725]

**Who wants easy modes?**

Those who picked "We need both easy and hard modes" > 46% / 297

Those who picked "We need an easy mode, but not a hard mode" > 7% / 45

Total: 342

 

**Who wants hard modes?**

Those who picked "We need both easy and hard modes" > 46% / 297

Those who picked "We need a hard mode, but not an easy mode" 7% / 49

Total: 346

 

However, don't confuse wanting just easy mode with wanting both easy and hard mode. If you say that a 53% want easy mode you should also say that a 57% want a hard mode. The thing here is that you're thinking that easy and hard mode options exclude each other when that's not the case. You have to consider each of the options separately. And if you want to compare easy vs hard, you either take into consideration that a 46% of the 53% wants both, or forget about that and just look at the ones who want just one of the options (funnily enough, both options are 7% - 45 vs 49)

 

**Who wants things to stay like they are currently? **

31% / 200

 

**Who wants something different?**

7% / 51

 

 

[Blaeys.3102]

> @"maddoctor.2738" said:

> > @"Lonami.2987" said:

> > 53% want easy mode, and only 31% think raids are fine as they are.

>

> I'm confused because I read that 7% want an easy mode not 53%

> Since when does "We need **both** easy and hard modes" counts as they want an easy mode? For all you know everyone that voted that wants both at once and not only one (it's in the wording) and if it was impossible to get both, they'd choose something different than "we want an easy mode".

 

I don't think the phrase "both easy and hard modes" is that hard to interpret. It indicates people wanting multiple modes - one easy and one hard. You then add this to those solely requesting easy mode and you see that 51 percent of those polled want some kind of easy mode, though they may differ in opinion as to what that might be.

 

Alternatively, we see 31 percent who are fine with the way they are (single mode - usually interpreted as medium to hard difficulty, based on the fight) and another 7 who want hard mode only (so, something akin to what we have now, but no escort or Cairn style fights). That comes to 38 percent of those polled who favor that the raid design philosophy either stay as it is or tilt toward being harder.

 

Finally, you have another 7 percent who just feel they need to be changed but not necessarily with easier modes incorporated.

 

No matter how you try to spin this, you still have a larger number of people here who have expressed interest in an easier mode in one form or another, with the majority of respondents in favor of multiple modes of raiding (incorporating both). There really is no other logical way to interpret the results of this poll.

 

That said, the biggest take-way from this is that they community is split in very meaningful ways on how raids are currently implemented in the game, to the point where less than 1/3 of those responding indicated they were happy with how they currently exist. They need to be looked at - and everyone's input should be considered.

[maddoctor.2738]

> @"Blaeys.3102" said:

> I don't think the phrase "both easy and hard modes" is that hard to interpret. It indicates people wanting multiple modes - one easy and one hard. You then add this to those solely requesting easy mode and you see that 51 percent of those polled want some kind of easy mode, though they may differ in opinion as to what that might be.

>

 

But that's not what that option say. It's rather clear that they want both an easy and a hard mode.

 

> No matter how you try to spin this, you still have a larger number of people here who have expressed interest in an easier mode in one form or another, with the majority of respondents in favor of multiple modes of raiding (incorporating both). There really is no other logical way to interpret the results of this poll.

>

 

Let's use your logic here, 46% want a hard mode (together with an easy mode) and 7% want only a hard mode so 53% of players want a hard mode, together with those that voted that Raids are fine (31%) that means 84% of those polled either want to stay as it is or tilt toward being harder.

[nia.4725]

> @"Blaeys.3102" said:

> > @"maddoctor.2738" said:

> > > @"Lonami.2987" said:

> > > 53% want easy mode, and only 31% think raids are fine as they are.

> >

> > I'm confused because I read that 7% want an easy mode not 53%

> > Since when does "We need **both** easy and hard modes" counts as they want an easy mode? For all you know everyone that voted that wants both at once and not only one (it's in the wording) and if it was impossible to get both, they'd choose something different than "we want an easy mode".

>

> I don't think the phrase "both easy and hard modes" is that hard to interpret. It indicates people wanting multiple modes - one easy and one hard. You then add this to those solely requesting easy mode and you see that 51 percent of those polled want some kind of easy mode, though they may differ in opinion as to what that might be.

>

> Alternatively, we see 31 percent who are fine with the way they are (single mode - usually interpreted as medium to hard difficulty, based on the fight) and another 7 who want hard mode only (so, something akin to what we have now, but no escort or Cairn style fights). That comes to 38 percent of those polled who favor that the raid design philosophy either stay as it is or tilt toward being harder.

>

> Finally, you have another 7 percent who just feel they need to be changed but not necessarily with easier modes incorporated.

>

> No matter how you try to spin this, you still have a larger number of people here who have expressed interest in an easier mode in one form or another, with the majority of respondents in favor of multiple modes of raiding (incorporating both). There really is no other logical way to interpret the results of this poll.

>

> That said, the biggest take-way from this is that they community is split in very meaningful ways on how raids are currently implemented in the game, to the point where less than 1/3 of those responding indicated they were happy with how they currently exist. They need to be looked at - and everyone's input should be considered.

 

You're ignoring those who also want hard mode in that easy and hard mode option, a 46%.

 

You can't say that easy mode is hard+easy mode option and just easy mode option and then say that hard more is just hard mode option. Hard mode would be then hard mode option and hard+easy mode option.

[Blaeys.3102]

> @"maddoctor.2738" said:

> > @"Blaeys.3102" said:

> > I don't think the phrase "both easy and hard modes" is that hard to interpret. It indicates people wanting multiple modes - one easy and one hard. You then add this to those solely requesting easy mode and you see that 51 percent of those polled want some kind of easy mode, though they may differ in opinion as to what that might be.

> >

>

> But that's not what that option say. It's rather clear that they want both an easy and a hard mode.

>

> > No matter how you try to spin this, you still have a larger number of people here who have expressed interest in an easier mode in one form or another, with the majority of respondents in favor of multiple modes of raiding (incorporating both). There really is no other logical way to interpret the results of this poll.

> >

>

> Let's use your logic here, 46% want a hard mode (together with an easy mode) and 7% want only a hard mode so 53% of players want a hard mode, together with those that voted that Raids are fine (31%) that means 84% of those polled either want to stay as it is or tilt toward being harder.

 

I think you're grasping to come up with some kind of justification that isn't there - or simply just trying to convolute things because data doesn't support your desired outcome.

 

Yes, it is VERY clear - both an easy and a hard mode. That includes the addition of an easy mode. Then there are those asking for an easy mode, which also includes the addition of an easy mode. That comes to 51 percent asking for the addition of an easy mode (with the vast majority of those wanting it come ALONGSIDE the use of a hard mode). To think respondents interpreted that any other way really is a significant stretch.

 

> @"nia.4725" said:

>> You're ignoring those who also want hard mode in that easy and hard mode option, a 46%.

>

> You can't say that easy mode is hard+easy mode option and just easy mode option and then say that hard more is just hard mode option. Hard mode would be then hard mode option and hard+easy mode option.

 

Not ignoring it at all. I think it is clear that the vast majority want a combination of the two - multiple modes that include a hard and an easy option. I think that is very clear in the responses.

[maddoctor.2738]

> @"Blaeys.3102" said:

> Yes, it is VERY clear - both an easy and a hard mode. That includes the addition of an easy mode. Then there are those asking for an easy mode, which also includes the addition of an easy mode. That comes to 51 percent asking for the addition of an easy mode (with the vast majority of those wanting it come ALONGSIDE the use of a hard mode). To think respondents interpreted that any other way really is a significant stretch.

>

 

And I said that's one way of interpreting there is also the opposite one. 7% want a hard mode, 31% want them to stay as they are, and 46% want to add a hard mode (ALONGSIDE the use of an easy mode), so 84% want it to be as it is and even get harder. IF you add the easy+hard to easy, then it stands to reason that you must add easy+hard with hard. And in that case you get 84% same or above and 53% for lower.

 

Which also doesn't make sense because adding them should add up to 100 (that's how percentages work)

[Oldirtbeard.9834]

I don't really care any more, I don't really believe ANet takes Raiding or Fractals seriously any way if you look at the release intervals, and the DPS disparity between classes that is never fixed out of 5 years of balance patches.

 

Trust me fellow Easy Mode Supporters, we've got it made on our end of the spectrum as far as content releases are concerned, LW Updates every 2 to 3 months along with Bounties (which is basically Open World Easy Mode Raiding right there). You want Ascended Armor, no problem just farm the popular Farms for a week or 2 and bankroll a crafter on one of your characters. You want to look fly like these guys in Legendary Armor, just farm Open World for 2 weeks, convert some gold to Gems and buy your self an Outfit with the same flashy effects as Legendary Armor which looks great if you're creative with your dyes like I am. You don't need the stat swapping functionality if you're doing fun stuff with the rest of us so why bother getting crammed into a META Box to bank roll a long expensive process of crafting a set of armor that still clips just as much as any other armor.

 

Raids and Fractals will always be on a semi annual release cadence because ANet follows Metrics, and Metrics tells them more people play Open World Content and those people spend more money, stop trying to get your selves into a exclusive yet second class situation.

 

I've thought a lot about this and I actually feel sorry for Raiders in this game, you get less content, longer waits, and really bad balance patches which leads to boring build diversity.