No more fractals, it's time for the dungeons

[reikken.4961]

new dungeons would be nice

[Drecien.4508]

We could certainly use at Least one new dungeon per expac. One for HOT and one for POF. Not everyone wants a toxic fractal party. Juatsayin

[Illconceived Was Na.9781]

> @"Drecien.4508" said:

> We could certainly use at Least one new dungeon per expac. One for HOT and one for POF. Not everyone wants a toxic fractal party. Juatsayin

 

Dungeons were toxic, maybe worse than fractals have ever been (because there's only one level of dungeon). When that was the only 'game' in town, and there was no LFG, people were behaved equally horrid in PUGs. (Which is to say: most people never experienced big issues, but those who did were often very upset about it, same as happens now with fractals.)

[Feanor.2358]

> @"Einlanzer.1627" said:

> > @"Mourningcry.9428" said:

> > This has already been addressed by Anet.

>

> That means nothing. If demand for real world dungeons is high and continues to grow, Anet will at some point change their tune and start doing them again.

>

> Fractals were a great idea as a type of dungeon, but they are not sufficient to replace all other 5 man content. World dungeons with setting-specific lore need to be brought back. PoF would have been much better if it had a few dungeons scattered around the new zones for players to immerse themselves in. The open world simply can't simulate that level of immersion and camaraderie building as well.

>

> The decision to cut dungeons was made long ago, presumably by Colin, and he was wrong, much like how he was wrong about a lot of other things that the game suffered for. It's time to reverse that decision.

 

And why exactly was he wrong? And what do you mean "dungeons with setting-specific lore'? Have you seen Twilight Oasis?

[Feanor.2358]

> @"Einlanzer.1627" said:

> > @"Mourningcry.9428" said:

> > This has already been addressed by Anet.

>

> That means nothing. If demand for real world dungeons is high and continues to grow, Anet will at some point change their tune and start doing them again.

 

Demand is not measured in forums though. See dungeon LFG section, then see the fractal ones. It is **very** clear where the demand is.

[Drecien.4508]

> @"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said:

> > @"Drecien.4508" said:

> > We could certainly use at Least one new dungeon per expac. One for HOT and one for POF. Not everyone wants a toxic fractal party. Juatsayin

>

> Dungeons were toxic, maybe worse than fractals have ever been (because there's only one level of dungeon). When that was the only 'game' in town, and there was no LFG, people were behaved equally horrid in PUGs. (Which is to say: most people never experienced big issues, but those who did were often very upset about it, same as happens now with fractals.)

 

In all my 5+ years playing I've had maybe two terrible runs in dungeons with pugs. Fractals on the other hand are just as toxic as raids. I'll only run fractals with guildies now cause the toxic mentality is so rampant. Besides that you get story with dungeons, fractals... You get... Something?

[Sanaosik.1573]

Needs add new dungeons,ignore raids content anet,and please upgrade or addd new dungeons,it is popular content not,any raids,dungeons and fractals is actualy best content in gw2,raids is very hate content,a play it few of players,ok?.

[Feanor.2358]

> @"Sanaosik.1573" said:

> Needs add new dungeons,ignore raids content anet,and please upgrade or addd new dungeons,it is popular content not,any raids,dungeons and fractals is actualy best content in gw2,raids is very hate content,a play it few of players,ok?.

 

Yeah, because it's popular content dungeon LFG sections are full 24/7, right? Let's face it - dungeons are old content with old design. Newer instanced content is leaps and bounds ahead of dungeons in terms of quality AND popularity. Not that it's any surprise.

 

Oh, and please stop with the "story/lore" nonsense. Fractals have always featured lore (Urban Battleground has been around for ages). Raid wings have a lot of lore connection. And Arkk's story is by far better than anything a dungeon ever offered.

[Vinceman.4572]

> @"Sanaosik.1573" said:

> Needs add new dungeons,ignore raids content anet,and please upgrade or addd new dungeons,it is popular content not,any raids,dungeons and fractals is actualy best content in gw2,raids is very hate content,a play it few of players,ok?.

 

Won't happen. Never ever again. Deal with it.

[Torolan.5816]

I don´t like Dungeons in electronic games. It makes no sense to replay them because every endboss is supposed to be a single being, but fractals make sense because they are merely islands in the mists like a mirror into the past. I woul make all existing dungeons into fractals too to be honest.

 

I can´t even urge myself to play the newest fractal again. Not because it is garbage or badly designed or something, I simply don´t want to play on the side of the people who destroyed the sunspears.

[Illconceived Was Na.9781]

> @"Drecien.4508" said:

> > @"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said:

> > > @"Drecien.4508" said:

> > > We could certainly use at Least one new dungeon per expac. One for HOT and one for POF. Not everyone wants a toxic fractal party. Juatsayin

> >

> > Dungeons were toxic, maybe worse than fractals have ever been (because there's only one level of dungeon). When that was the only 'game' in town, and there was no LFG, people were behaved equally horrid in PUGs. (Which is to say: most people never experienced big issues, but those who did were often very upset about it, same as happens now with fractals.)

>

> In all my 5+ years playing I've had maybe two terrible runs in dungeons with pugs. Fractals on the other hand are just as toxic as raids. I'll only run fractals with guildies now cause the toxic mentality is so rampant. Besides that you get story with dungeons, fractals... You get... Something?

 

I'm glad that you didn't experience much vitriol in dungeons. And I'm sorry that you experienced it at all in fractals. I hope you understand that your personal experience might not be reflective of others'. My proxy for comparing the era of dungeons with the current one is looking at posts in the forums about the same time. The complaints were just as frequent & strong about dungeon elitism, about kicks, about the meta (which back then was "the zerker meta").

 

The biggest difference between the two time periods: there's no longer a debate about "magic find gear". Back then, there was a lot of arguments about whether it was okay for players to use gear with magic find or not.

[Astralporing.1957]

> @"Feanor.2358" said:

> > @"Einlanzer.1627" said:

> > > @"Mourningcry.9428" said:

> > > This has already been addressed by Anet.

> >

> > That means nothing. If demand for real world dungeons is high and continues to grow, Anet will at some point change their tune and start doing them again.

>

> Demand is not measured in forums though. See dungeon LFG section, then see the fractal ones. It is **very** clear where the demand is.

True, there's not much demand for dungeons as they are now. On the other hand, the LFG total for raids and fractals together _is_ lower (much, much lower) than dungeon LFGs were before they got killed off.

 

 

 

[CptAurellian.9537]

> @"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said:

> The biggest difference between the two time periods: there's no longer a debate about "magic find gear". Back then, there was a lot of arguments about whether it was okay for players to use gear with magic find or not.

 

Ah, glorious times. MF gear was a guarantor for fun discussions.

[Hyper Cutter.9376]

> @"Feanor.2358" said:

> Yeah, because it's popular content dungeon LFG sections are full 24/7, right? Let's face it - dungeons are old content with old design. Newer instanced content is leaps and bounds ahead of dungeons in terms of quality AND popularity. Not that it's any surprise.

Dungeons _were_ popular until Anet deliberately set out to kill them (something they literally admitted outright). Sure, they "reversed" the reward nerfs, but the damage was already done and dungeons have never recovered.

[Feanor.2358]

> @"Hyper Cutter.9376" said:

> > @"Feanor.2358" said:

> > Yeah, because it's popular content dungeon LFG sections are full 24/7, right? Let's face it - dungeons are old content with old design. Newer instanced content is leaps and bounds ahead of dungeons in terms of quality AND popularity. Not that it's any surprise.

> Dungeons _were_ popular until Anet deliberately set out to kill them (something they literally admitted outright). Sure, they "reversed" the reward nerfs, but the damage was already done and dungeons have never recovered.

 

If the content was that great, it would still be played. See how the metas in HoT are still played even after the ridiculously profitable Istan runs? The damage to dungeons is a fact because the new content which was intended to replace them is actually better.

[vesica tempestas.1563]

> @"Feanor.2358" said:

> > @"Hyper Cutter.9376" said:

> > > @"Feanor.2358" said:

> > > Yeah, because it's popular content dungeon LFG sections are full 24/7, right? Let's face it - dungeons are old content with old design. Newer instanced content is leaps and bounds ahead of dungeons in terms of quality AND popularity. Not that it's any surprise.

> > Dungeons _were_ popular until Anet deliberately set out to kill them (something they literally admitted outright). Sure, they "reversed" the reward nerfs, but the damage was already done and dungeons have never recovered.

>

> If the content was that great, it would still be played. See how the metas in HoT are still played even after the ridiculously profitable Istan runs? The damage to dungeons is a fact because the new content which was intended to replace them is actually better.

 

fractals is just a dungeon with an additional couple mechanics on top. Many people still play dungeons including myself, especially because the raiders tends not to bring the attitude along to dungeons because of the lower skill requirements so everyone is more relaxed and less anal about builds etc.

 

[Feanor.2358]

> @"vesica tempestas.1563" said:

> > @"Feanor.2358" said:

> > > @"Hyper Cutter.9376" said:

> > > > @"Feanor.2358" said:

> > > > Yeah, because it's popular content dungeon LFG sections are full 24/7, right? Let's face it - dungeons are old content with old design. Newer instanced content is leaps and bounds ahead of dungeons in terms of quality AND popularity. Not that it's any surprise.

> > > Dungeons _were_ popular until Anet deliberately set out to kill them (something they literally admitted outright). Sure, they "reversed" the reward nerfs, but the damage was already done and dungeons have never recovered.

> >

> > If the content was that great, it would still be played. See how the metas in HoT are still played even after the ridiculously profitable Istan runs? The damage to dungeons is a fact because the new content which was intended to replace them is actually better.

>

> fractals is just a dungeon with an additional couple mechanics on top. Many people still play dungeons including myself, especially because the raiders tends not to bring the attitude along to dungeons because of the lower skill requirements so everyone is more relaxed and less anal about builds etc.

>

 

You know what the major issue with the dungeons is? They get boring fast because they're too long and there isn't enough variety in the encounters. *Precisely* what differentiates fractals from dungeons. The shorter time format means you can play them more often (or, they are more accessible), while the extra mechanics mean you don't get bored of fighting the same fight over and over again. Sure, I too play dungeons from time to time, just for the change of pace. But it's outdated content. It's not 2012 anymore.

[ShadowAgent.6053]

Fractals work because they shuffle your objectives daily. Dungeons were always about doing the fastest and easiest paths (lets remember Aetherblade and how popular that was). As soon as people deem a path "slow" and "not worth" it will get ignored. Like, how many people would play Twilight Oasis or SO if it did not show up as a daily or recommended.

 

I just don's see how they can expand the dungeon system without making it too much like Fractals. If they just add more dailies it will get bloated, they don't even want to add more CMs currently for that reason, but if they make them infinitely repeatable > people will just do the fastest ones.

 

Make Fractals, but put them in the open world with a theme relating to the zone they are in and add them as a possible daily rotation? Probably, but they don't want to gate the content behind expansion purchases (having to go to the map) and what will the point be in doing it, if you could just go from the LFG or other lobby.

[Rizaya.6940]

Here's what I would love to see but I am aware it won't happen. 1 dungeon per map (yes per map). Even the 1-15 ones. Get players used to mechanics early on, add depth to the story and the maps and encourage interaction from the start. Every map has a story even if it's vague and really badly presented most of the times. Dungeons could offer focus and the much needed exposition. Rewards could be mostly cosmetic ( we are are in dire need of more in-game non exclusive cosmetics anyway). Not full sets, maybe a weapon or a cool helm etc. Even the expansions need dungeons because it would be nice discovering some mysteries that you overlook while mindlessly following commander tags. As for fractals, keep them for the end game. Agony is actually really good for difficulty junkies. Ye, I know I'm dreaming shut up.

[PacoXI.7690]

No one played the last dungeon they made, meanwhile fractals are booming. Why would they make more dungeons?

[Irokou.3215]

Permanently obsolete content is lazy design, I loathe when game devs completely abandon avenues of content and just pile things on top of it rather than taking a critical look at it. If dungeons were revamped alongside getting new ones, maybe even tied to a new form of end game progression come a 3rd expansion, it would make the game feel complete. As it stands, it is sad when a new player asks "anyone want to dungeon?" only to be met with silence.

[ReaverKane.7598]

> @"Kheldorn.5123" said:

> Anet already has tools to create new, modern, better dungeons. How? Well, what are raids if not 10-man, buffed dungeons. Now what they need to do is actually remember who funded this whole raiding whim and give us some sweet, oldschool in atmosphere, yet modern in mechanics dungeons. Medium difficulty for 5 man, relaxed groups with cool story connected to present events, not yet another fractal being somewhere in time and space that by definition of mists is never a representation of what happened 100%.

 

Yeah, but look at the time it takes to create a raid, now double that and that's how long it would take to keep dungeons relevant while also releasing new raids.

Also there's your answer too: Raids = the new dungeons.

 

What's worse is having a 2018 dungeon release would probably require also reworking all the 2012 dungeons to be on par with the new one.

As sad as it makes me, Arena Net won't ever touch dungeons again.

Also i'd rather see more Mini-Dungeons like Zomorros lair popping up in other maps.

 

[Hyper Cutter.9376]

> @"Feanor.2358" said:

> If the content was that great, it would still be played. See how the metas in HoT are still played even after the ridiculously profitable Istan runs? The damage to dungeons is a fact because the new content which was intended to replace them is actually better.

Fractals aren't "better", they're _more profitable_ (and only because Anet buffed their rewards as the other half of their plan to kill dungeons), and if that changed they'd suffer the same fate as dungeons.

[Ultimatepwr.9562]

> @"Irokou.3215" said:

> Permanently obsolete content is lazy design, I loathe when game devs completely abandon avenues of content and just pile things on top of it rather than taking a critical look at it. If dungeons were revamped alongside getting new ones, maybe even tied to a new form of end game progression come a 3rd expansion, it would make the game feel complete. As it stands, it is sad when a new player asks "anyone want to dungeon?" only to be met with silence.

 

Except dungeons aren't obsolete content as fractals are dungeons, and serve the same design space

[GrubySzymek.1362]

> @"ReaverKane.7598" said:

> > @"Kheldorn.5123" said:

> > Anet already has tools to create new, modern, better dungeons. How? Well, what are raids if not 10-man, buffed dungeons. Now what they need to do is actually remember who funded this whole raiding whim and give us some sweet, oldschool in atmosphere, yet modern in mechanics dungeons. Medium difficulty for 5 man, relaxed groups with cool story connected to present events, not yet another fractal being somewhere in time and space that by definition of mists is never a representation of what happened 100%.

>

> Yeah, but look at the time it takes to create a raid, now double that and that's how long it would take to keep dungeons relevant while also releasing new raids.

> Also there's your answer too: Raids = the new dungeons.

>

> What's worse is having a 2018 dungeon release would probably require also reworking all the 2012 dungeons to be on par with the new one.

> As sad as it makes me, Arena Net won't ever touch dungeons again.

> Also i'd rather see more Mini-Dungeons like Zomorros lair popping up in other maps.

>

 

Raids are not dungeons. In terms of gameplay, because technically they are indeed dungeons. That's why they already have tools to make new ones. Point being **new** as going back and fixing old ones again would be a waste of time.