Druid, ranger, pets, AI and you.

[Chaith.8256]

> @shadowpass.4236 said:

> "pEts 2 Ez KiLL eVeRybOdY Wen U PrEsS f1"

 

nErf eVerY sPeC eXcePt ELE AnD ReV

 

Edit: In the mean time let's focus down some Ranger pets, it'll be a fun and engaging gameplay. :trollface:

[shadowpass.4236]

> @Razor.6392 said:

> > @shadowpass.4236 said:

> > > @Razor.6392 said:

> > > > @shadowpass.4236 said:

> > > > Honestly, if anything... pet's are weaker now than they've ever been before. Smokescale has seen so many nerfs that its entire burst hits for around 3k. Bristleback has been nerfed consistently to the point where its barely even usable anymore. Wyverns used to be alright after the change to the autoattacks, but Scourge deletes them in a fight. The new ones aren't anything special either.

> > > >

> > > > I really don't understand why people here are complaining about pets when the general consensus is that they aren't even good to begin with.

> > > >

> > > > If it was really such a big deal, you'd see people at the higher tiers also struggling against pets. Yet, anyone who is semi competent would be able to easily play around them.

> > > >

> > > > Think about it like this... You. A functioning, thinking human being, are being outplayed by crappy AI that follows a skill rotation and struggles to hit a moving target. _Nice._

> > >

> > > It's not whether they're super OP or not (they aren't of course), it's how it's free AI damage with almost no interaction between either the attacker (cant kill it for kitten) and the ranger. Just one of many instances of bad design.

> > >

> > > Imagine turret engi but the turrets are really hard to kill. Oh wait, that happened and they got nerfed lol.

> >

> > I don't think you understand. So let me try to break it down for you as simple and direct as I can.

> >

> > # NOT TANKY

> > TURRETS ARE **NOT** ENGIS' CLASS MECHANIC

> > MINIONS ARE **NOT** NECROS' CLASS MECHANIC

> >

> > # TANKY

> > CLONES **ARE** MESMERS' CLASS MECHANIC

> > SHADES **ARE** SCOURGES' CLASS MECHANIC

> > PETS **ARE** RANGERS' CLASS MECHANIC

> >

> > If they aren't mandatory, they shouldn't be invulnerable/hard to kill. **THAT'S WHY RENEGADE IS GARBAGE.** Their class mechanic can be easily killed/cc'd. Thus, it renders their **ENTIRE** class useless. If you don't understand it past this, you've got issues way past not being able to outsmart dumb AI. Pets have received nerfs **CONSISTENTLY** almost every single patch. If you really can't handle the kitten pets now, you probably got roflstomped back when HoT first came out and pets actually were dangerous. Ooh, I remember the days when I could win multiple 1v3s **EVERY MATCH** in high plat/legend on zerker ranger. But nope, can't do that anymore. Instead, we're pigeonholed into a stupid bunker spec that can barely do damage even with our "OP pets" if we want to be viable in a competitive setting.

> >

> > And no. I do **not** like spamming staff auto attacks for damage while my pet tickles someone all match long until someone from my team rotates to kill. That is why I like to play core ranger and soulbeast. On those, I actually feel like I'm doing something except healing and doing nothing else for 15 minutes. So please, kitten off with:

> > "pets do so much damage"

> > "pets cc me constantly"

> > "help it's chasing me"

> > "I can't kill the pet in a 1v1"

> > "pEts 2 Ez KiLL eVeRybOdY Wen U PrEsS f1"

>

> It's not whether they're super OP or not (they aren't of course), it's how it's free AI damage with almost no interaction between either the attacker (cant kill it for kitten) and the ranger. Just one of many instances of bad design.

>

> (Repeating since you're kinda slow).

 

_Ahhhh yeah._ Just like: shades and fucking clones

 

Read: the **bolded** CAPITALIZED text in the response you quoted.

I made it easy to read, specifically for you, since you can't seem to understand simple concepts 95% of the people who've been posting in this thread have tried to explain to you across 3 pages. I even posted a video of me fighting another top tier player and watch how my "OP pet" does literally nothing vs him so that you'd get some visuals as well. Because hell, multiple people explaining it to you isn't enough.

[Morwath.9817]

> @Chaith.8256 said:

> > @shadowpass.4236 said:

> > "pEts 2 Ez KiLL eVeRybOdY Wen U PrEsS f1"

>

> nErf eVerY sPeC eXcePt ELE AnD ReV

>

> Edit: In the mean time let's focus down some Ranger pets, it'll be a fun and engaging gameplay. :trollface:

 

 

Ooo, buff Quaggans, nerf Krait and then we can wooo-hooo!

[shadowpass.4236]

> @Chaith.8256 said:

> > @shadowpass.4236 said:

> > "pEts 2 Ez KiLL eVeRybOdY Wen U PrEsS f1"

>

> nErf eVerY sPeC eXcePt ELE AnD ReV

>

> Edit: In the mean time let's focus down some Ranger pets, it'll be a fun and engaging gameplay. :trollface:

 

LOL if I could give more thumbs ups I would

+1000

Made me laugh irl

I support this man

Chaith 4 Pres

[Shaogin.2679]

Fyi, balance team focuses on profession forums, not the PvP forums. So already this entire thread is a waste and I'm pretty sure you're just trolling anyways.

 

However, I would welcome having full control of the pet and the pet scaling with our stats. Would be pretty sweet. Saying pets would need a nerd if we got full control though, wtf is that about? You say your only issue with pets is that they are brain dead tanky ai, so giving us full control and start sharing fixes that, unless you secretly desire for them to be even more useless.

 

Also, really don't appreciate being insulted and stereotyped just because I play druid. Also, pets die easily in a 1v1 to condi damage, that is a counter, not sure where this pets have no counter argument comes from. And this constant talk about the pet return and pet swap, pet return does nothing against someone focusing pet down, and pet swap does have a cool down, it's not some endless get out of jail free card. It's almost as if you have no understanding of the very thing you are complaining about...

[Vasdamas Anklast.1607]

Mender Druid + Pet: Better Nerf ele support.

 

[Faux Play.6104]

> @brannigan.9831 said:

> I dont even know if you need to look at overall ranger balance to see if the pet is partially broken. You fix whats broken and if the ranger is too weak afterwards you buff the ranger. I've never been for protecting problematic aspects of a class because the whole is only average. The pet to me is to tanky period end of story and its too valuable without having to spec a kitten thing into it. I remember in the beginning Guardian Spiritweapons, temporary pets with a cooldown, were basically invulnerable. They eventually changed that even though nobody ever used them.

 

If the rangers F skills are too good if they don't go beast mastery, should all specs be forced to use a single trait line in order to have relevant F1-F5 skills?

[Faux Play.6104]

> @Razor.6392 said:

> > @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said:

> > Ok this is just getting deeper and more skewed in opinions than it needs to be and that scares me because anet has a history of actually listening to threads like this. So please allow me "as a ranger main for many years" to take an alternative approach to this discussion and explain how to deal with bunker druids as it really is a l2p issue.

> >

> > **Step #1, Understanding how Bunker Druids win battles of attrition** - The Bunker Druid by itself has very little damage but what it does have is plenty of small poison proc. Wilderness Survival and the trait Refined Toxins is becoming popular nowadays. Refined Toxins is a 6s poison that happens every 5s. With the use of venom sigil it becomes a 7s poison so long as the Druid remains over his 75% health threshold, the Refined Toxins work. This essentially means that you will be poisoned the entire duration of the 1v1 against the Druid. So not only does the Druid have superior healing in general but it is also constantly nerfing all of your healing by 33%. Even so, the damage from the Bunker Druid alone will not be enough to down you unless you're running some kind of ultra glass dps spec, can't figure out where your dodge roll button is and/or are plainly ignorant enough to stay in the 1v1 attrition battle that you can clearly see, you are losing.

> >

> > **Step #2, Understanding how Bunker Druids kill players with PROPER pet bursting** - Yeah so this isn't quite as passive as users who are posting in here seem to think it is. Sure, if a new guy comes at a Druid wielding a poorly constructed Warrior spec, the AI alone on any pet will probably shred him apart without the Druid needing to use any pet skills. But if a good Spellbreaker comes at a Druid, the pet trying to attack him just fuels Full Counter usage and the Druid often has to set the pet to retreat and have it opt out of the 1v1 entirely. These are two extreme examples where on one hand, the pet AI is OP against less experienced players but on the other hand it is actually completely useless. Save your conjecture of other Class vs. Druids examples for later, I'll get in to it. Point being: Killing good players with pet usage isn't so easy. Pet AI may be OP against weaker players but it feels flat footed and clunky against strong players. Again, this is a l2p issue. When a Bunker Druid kills you with pet bursting, it looks something like this example:

> > * Druid is running Beastmastery and is using the Beastly Warden trait which causes pet F2 skills to proc a 2s taunt, every 20s.

> > * Druid is running Smokescale and Bristleback.

> > * Druid baits out opponent's dodges and defensive cool downs, stunbreaks and stabs with mini bursting that looks like attempted full dps bursting.

> > * Druid then waits for Smokescale to use Smoke Assault, which is his teleporting Rev Dog attack on 20s CD and the bulk of it's burst damage.

> > * This positions the Smokescale on top of the opponent. The Druid then uses its F2 skill which procs 2s taunt.

> > * Druid immediately positions himself on top of the opponent and swaps to Bristleback and pushes its F2 skill, which is heavy burst.

> > * Druid also uses Protect Me! for additional Taunt CC when he stands in between opponent and pet. The opponent cleaves almost always proc the Taunt.

> > * Druid swaps to his greatsword, uses hilt bash for daze/stun, goes into maul, followed up with a swoop if opponent is still standing.

> > * It's a lot of DPS burst for a bunker spec, it is. But know that this is not easy to do against good players because they already know the steps that are listed in Step #3.

> >

> > **Step #3, Understanding how to not die to Bunker Druids** - It's real simple: Stop wasting dodge rolls/defensive CDs on the Bunker Druid and start using them vs. the pet attacks. This mitigates the large bulk of the dangerous DPS/CCs and renders the 1v1 into a situation where it becomes a knockback CC decap battle where neither player dies and they both are waiting for a + from a team mate to clear the node. If this still doesn't make sense to you, please refer to the meme that I posted earlier in this thread.

> >

> > **Quick analysis and explanation of how different classes can survive against, kill or at least push a Bunker Druid off a node:**

> > * Scourge - Bunker Druids are immediately forced to leave the node when a Scourge shows up. The Bunker Druid relies too much on boons to survive, which end up being converted into conditions and Bunker Druids are weak to condis anyway because they only have two sources of cleanse. If the Druid tries to stay on the node against the Scourge, the pets explode from condi DPS and when the pets die, this eliminates the use of Signet of Renewal. This leaves the Druid with only 1 source of condi cleanse "Cele Avatar" and it isn't enough. The only thing that the Bunker Druid can do is put range between himself and the Scourge and kite it with ranged attrition. The Druid will also unleash a melee pet to stay on the Scourge, this forces the Scourge to choose between trying to DPS the ranged attrition or to focus the pet. If they are smart enough to down the pets, the Bunker Druid will have to leave the fight and go elsewhere or he'll be wasting time pew pewing with no pet support DPS. If they try to focus the Bunker Druid, the pet DPS and the Druid DPS will eventually kill the Scourge and the Druid will retake the node. **If you are a Scourge, LOS from the Druid attacks and kill the pets when the AI pathing comes to you around a corner. The Bunker Druid will have to leave the fight.** It is important to point out here though, that pets get absolutely nuked by Scourge condis.

> > * Spellbreaker - This is a never ending node hold battle. If the Spellbreaker can 1v1 kill a Bunker Druid, that is a bad Druid. If the Druid can 1v1 kill the Spellbreaker, that's a bad Spellbreaker. **No reason to go into detail here other than pointing out that pets certainly are not an OP advantage here. If anything they need to be set to retreat so the AI doesn't allow the Spellbreaker to so freely proc Full Counter.**

> > * Mirage - A good Mirage kills a good Bunker Druid, eventually. The Mirage will lose the node for awhile and the Bunker Druid will take it, for a short time. But the Mirage will eventually kill that Druid and retake the node. The quickest way that an intermediate Mirage can kill a good Bunker Druid is by downing the pets and removing the use of Signet of Renewal. Remember, pets don't dodge shatters. This is how the Mirage should do it: 1- Attack the Druid initially until you see him use Signet of Renewal. That first use of Renewal will transfer all of the Druid's condis on to his first pet. 2- Start focusing that pet and shut it down. If you're lucky, he will have recently used a pet swap and be on a 20s CD before being able to swap again and you kill that pet. Worst case scenario, he swaps to 2nd pet and is now on 20s CD for swap. 3- Keep focusing that pet and it dies fast to Mirage bursting. 4- So on and so forth until both pets are down, on 60s CDs before revival and the Druid has only 1 source of condi removal, Cele Avatar. this tactic also serves to mitigate the CCs/DPS from the pets, which eliminates any possible chance of the Bunker Druid being able to kill the Mirage or even make it leave the fight. However, **if you are a seasoned Mirage, you can kill Bunker Druids simply by focusing the Druid and ignoring the pet entirely. ** It should also be pointed out that it is very difficult to even touch a good Mirage with a pet burst.

> > * Holo - This is in my opinion, a fairly balanced match up. The Holo has just enough CC/DPS to actually kill or drive off the Bunker Druid if he knows what he's doing but he is also squishy enough that the Druid/Pet attrition can dwindle him down fairly quickly. **The Holo can down the pets with focused bursting, if he wants to eliminate the Bunker Druid's DPS for the purpose of simply bunking/holding his color against him or he should ignore the pets entirely if his goal is to kill the Bunker Druid, if the Druid is defending it's own color. The key for Holo to actually kill the Druid lies within understanding how the Druid uses its stunbreaks and learning how to stop that up so the Druid cannot so easily escape CC chains, get up and heal.** Pet play here is more harmful to the Holo than in the previous explanations as the Holo is a glass DPS spec.

> > * Firebrand Bunkers - You will forever battle the Bunker Druid and neither one of you will die. It will amount down to a decap battle and waiting for +.

> > * Physical DPS Guardian Specs - You're gonna get countered by the Bunker Druid unless he's a bad Druid. Avoid these 1v1s unless it's important to hold the node. Immediately call to your team for a +.

> > * Burn DPS Guardian Specs - The Bunker Druid will get countered by the consistent small burn procs and will eventually have to leave the node or stay and die. Remember that the Druid has only two sources of condi cleanse, both of which clear ALL condis on the Druid. So don't try and land enormous burn bursts, setting all skills in to CD, because the Druid will mitigate that damage quickly with remove ALL condi skills. What you want to do is land smaller more consistent bursts, which the Druid will eventually have to waste his two big condi clears on. **If you see Signet of Renewal on CD, wait until the Druid comes out of Cele Avatar and THEN land a big burst on the Druid. The Druid will die quickly if he was stupid enough to stay in the 1v1 up to this point, along with his pet. The pets die quickly to burn guard AoEs.**

> > * Thieves of all types - **Stop it, stop trying to 1v1 Bunker Druids. It never works out well unless the Druid is terrible or the Thief is amazing. Focus on the role of +ing and decapping.** Here I do have to admit that pet damage feels OP vs. Thief but.. what kind of DPS doesn't?

> > * Heralds of all types - It is possible for good Heralds to actually kill or push the Bunker Druid off the node but generally, this is going to be another 1v1 that neither party wins. The Herald can however decap the node over time with knockbacks and due to the use of the Druid's Cele Avatar Stealth but the Druid will also use knockbacks to take the node back. **Just another decap battle unless one of the players is somewhat stronger in combat than the other.** The pets here don't bother the Heralds so much. Good Heralds often just use the pet bursts to heal anyway. Another situation where the mindless AI is actually helping a good player fighting the Bunker Druid.

> > * Other Bunker Druids - **You win 1v1 by dodging pet bursts. You decap by landing your knockbacks and not getting hit by other knockbacks. Real simple. If both Druids are excellent however, this is just another 1v1 that will never end festival of decap.**

> > * All Ranger Oriented DPS - **You're only shot at killing a good Bunker Druid is to bait out its defenses and then unleash high DPS with CC chain attached. If you can't interrupt it's heals during DPS burst and do it quickly, the Bunker Druid is going to kill you in a battle of attrition.** 1v1s amongst ranger players likes this, amongst various build structures, is actually fun because they usually amount down to who is more experienced with ranger builds, rather than one player just having an OP build. There are actually many viable Ranger/Druid/Soulbeast specs right now. Pretty cool actually.

> > * Eles - Unfortunately, Ele is just kind of in a bad spot right now. Tempest isn't doing the job it once had and Weaver has the same problem that Ele has always had "the DPS is high but boy oh boy does it lack adequate defenses while running DPS". I can see anyone running Ele would think that pet DPS was OP. However they need to understand that this is not a problem with the pet's AI or statistics, it is a problem with the Ele class. **The best thing they can do here is not engage a Bunker Druid 1v1. But if the situation calls that the Ele is the only person to hold a node neutral or his color, I would say the best thing to do is to land all of that big Ele DPS on the pets. Down them and eliminate the Druid's DPS so the Ele can actually stay on the node, otherwise he's gonna get chewed by the steady pet spam attacks. **The Ele shouldn't expect to kill the Bunker Druid unless the Druid is less skilled than he is. If the Ele claims pets are too hard to DPS, he is doing something wrong as pets do not dodge roll, they don't block and the Druid only has so many heals to go through. If you can't kill the Druid, focus it's pets. They die a lot faster than the Druid will and it at least neutralizes the Druid's DPS so the Ele can hold a node against him.

> >

> > Furthermore, in response to a couple of the suggestions I read in this thread:

> > * **Pet attributes scaling with the amulet the Ranger wears** - Are you sure about that suggestion? Did anyone stop to consider what it's going to be like when a smokescale comes them with berserker amy, fury buff and 25 stacks of might? Did anyone stop to think about pet healing when it scales with Mender?

> > * **Allowing full control of ALL pet skills to the player** - It's too much in my opinion. A Razer Naga as example, barely has enough buttons for the user's right hand to handle the actual character's functions. The user then uses his left hand to control WASD, dodge rolls and w/e other functions he already has set on the keyboard. If the the pet panel was given an additional 3 keys to control the pet's auto, 2nd and 3rd skills, we'd have 7 buttons as F skills and a lot of new focus to dedicate not only to the positioning and attack streams of the Ranger but now also precision play for attack streams on the pet. It's just too much imo. It would be like controlling two characters instead of one. I feel the AI is fine as it is.

> >

> > Besides that, I think everyone needs to be more worried about the balance aspects that Chaith has already mentioned.

> >

>

> Good post, but above all it is interesting that you consider killing the pet a viable option. According to most people here, you're bad if you even think of attacking it. Only seems to work against condi builds though.

>

> Two pointers:

> * I'm fine with a pet and zerk stats. Obviously a medium ground would have to be adjusted. It's not like bunker stats pet will hit for 10 damage and zerk will do it for 10000.

> * Full control is fine. From F1 to F5 would suffice, with a command or 2 either getting merged or remaining automated. This is 100% a buff though, so it a tradeoff would be required lol. Don't think I'm trying to buff druids here.

 

A scourge will either force a ranger to swap pets, waste a heal, or kill the pet quickly by dumping torment on it. The AI isn't smart enough to stop moving so they melt amazingly fast.

 

[Ario.8964]

> @shadowpass.4236 said:

> > @Razor.6392 said:

> > > @Chaith.8256 said:

> > > Targeting a Ranger's pet should not be an intended strategy, it just kills the pacing of that duel. It's not fun for either player when someone is trying to focus down two pets simply to straight up deny the Druid the bulk of his damage from that point on. It becomes so un-fun for both parties because you're guaranteeing you'll fight for 2 minutes by not attacking the Druid, and the last minute the Druid will only be able to use half damage if you're successful. What an anti-climatic end, snooze-fest for sure.

> > >

> > > Reminds me of early Hunter 2v2's in WoW, with the 30 minute pet mini-games - if the Pet class' pet is dead, we can't lose, sweet, let's run around killing and reviving pets for 30 minutes! GW2's game modes certainly aren't beyond criticism either but I'm thankful this mechanic didn't make it in.

> > >

> > > PvP in GW2 ought to be Player v. Player, I probably speak for a good amount of players in being thankful that pet PvP mini-games aren't common when fighting Rangers currently. It's the Ranger's responsibility to keep it safe from area damage, let him be punished if he fails at that, but allowing him to have the tools to keep the pet alive 1v1 is fine.

> >

> > I mean, you have to be pretty bad or just not pay attention at all if you can't press F4 when your pet is slowly dying over 5+ seconds.

> >

> > 1v1 the pet will never die in a reasonable timeframe. Since you're known in the game, maybe you can tell me what's the downside to a druid, and what risk is there in their playstyle, if any at all? Even in the narration of the Zan VOD you mentioned how the druid escaped unscathed every single time even in 1v3s lol.

> >

> > I just want things to have more options to be countered, and to raise the skill cap a bit. Less fire and forget and more active gameplay.

>

> If you really want more active gameplay, give rangers FULL control over our pets. This means access to _all_ of the pets skills, the positioning of the pet, more responsive commands, the ability for the AI to hit a moving target and I will be okay with that. Instead, we have to work extremely hard to control our crappy AI, especially at high levels of play. You coming here saying that we just "fire and forget" shows your immense ignorance on the matter. It also shows a great deal of disrespect to the people who have taken a lot of time and effort towards mastering this class.

 

I would love to see that system put into play. Give the rangers actual control over their pets so their mechanic is actually something they control and can help separate the good rangers from the bad ones. Raises mechanical skill level and kills the random cc and damage aspect of the current AI (albeit unreliable cc and damage but still present nonetheless)

[ZhouX.8742]

> @Morwath.9817 said:

> @ZhouX.8742

> Quaggan would like to point out that meta "bunker druid" doesn't use beastmastery, but WS/NM/D.

 

Ah true, I was thinking of paladin roamer with GS/LB, I think WS is only taken now though because condi mirage and scourge exists. Main matchup for druid. Otherwise there's little to no reason to run WS over BM as fury is irrelevant with staff. and sword/d.

 

This actually makes kiting the pet in meta druid even much easier, as they lose their speed buff from BM. There should be little to no complaints in out positioning the pet at all in this case, but I imagine most of the complaint comes from people simply standing on point face tanking druid pet abilities :wink:

[ArthurDent.9538]

> @Chaith.8256 said:

> Targeting a Ranger's pet should not be an intended strategy, it just kills the pacing of that duel. It's not fun for either player when someone is trying to focus down two pets simply to straight up deny the Druid the bulk of his damage from that point on. It becomes so un-fun for both parties because you're guaranteeing you'll fight for 2 minutes by not attacking the Druid, and the last minute the Druid will only be able to use half damage if you're successful. What an anti-climatic end, snooze-fest for sure.

>

> Reminds me of early Hunter 2v2's in WoW, with the 30 minute pet mini-games - if the Pet class' pet is dead, we can't lose, sweet, let's run around killing and reviving pets for 30 minutes! GW2's game modes certainly aren't beyond criticism either but I'm thankful this mechanic didn't make it in.

>

> PvP in GW2 ought to be Player v. Player, I probably speak for a good amount of players in being thankful that pet PvP mini-games aren't common when fighting Rangers currently. It's the Ranger's responsibility to keep it safe from area damage, let him be punished if he fails at that, but allowing him to have the tools to keep the pet alive 1v1 is fine.

 

I think you make a good point but are ignoring the fact that not all pets are made equal. Pets all have different base stats where pets like birds and cats do a lot of damage but are very glassy, while bears don't do a lot of damage but are incredibly durable. If there is no fear of having the pet die, then there is no reason to run any pets other than the ones that have the best combination of damage + utility, tank pets like bears become totally useless (they pretty much are because even glassy pets are pretty durable). So unless A-net wants to give all pets the same defensive stats, and balance them based off of the combination of damage + utility, then killing the glassier high risk/high reward pets should be a viable option, as that is the intended weakness of those pets. Unfortunately smokescale is great damage + great utility + very tanky but most of the rest of them are reasonably balanced in this regard.

[Chaith.8256]

> @ArthurDent.9538 said:

> > @Chaith.8256 said:

> > Targeting a Ranger's pet should not be an intended strategy, it just kills the pacing of that duel. It's not fun for either player when someone is trying to focus down two pets simply to straight up deny the Druid the bulk of his damage from that point on. It becomes so un-fun for both parties because you're guaranteeing you'll fight for 2 minutes by not attacking the Druid, and the last minute the Druid will only be able to use half damage if you're successful. What an anti-climatic end, snooze-fest for sure.

> >

> > Reminds me of early Hunter 2v2's in WoW, with the 30 minute pet mini-games - if the Pet class' pet is dead, we can't lose, sweet, let's run around killing and reviving pets for 30 minutes! GW2's game modes certainly aren't beyond criticism either but I'm thankful this mechanic didn't make it in.

> >

> > PvP in GW2 ought to be Player v. Player, I probably speak for a good amount of players in being thankful that pet PvP mini-games aren't common when fighting Rangers currently. It's the Ranger's responsibility to keep it safe from area damage, let him be punished if he fails at that, but allowing him to have the tools to keep the pet alive 1v1 is fine.

>

> I think you make a good point but are ignoring the fact that not all pets are made equal. Pets all have different base stats where pets like birds and cats do a lot of damage but are very glassy, while bears don't do a lot of damage but are incredibly durable. If there is no fear of having the pet die, then there is no reason to run any pets other than the ones that have the best combination of damage + utility, tank pets like bears become totally useless (they pretty much are because even glassy pets are pretty durable). So unless A-net wants to give all pets the same defensive stats, and balance them based off of the combination of damage + utility, then killing the glassier high risk/high reward pets should be a viable option, as that is the intended weakness of those pets. Unfortunately smokescale is great damage + great utility + very tanky but most of the rest of them are reasonably balanced in this regard.

 

Yes, it's established that 90% of pets are useless in PvP, I wish that were not the case and than a handful of choices. However, I was operating under the assumption that all everyone will continue using the ones which are both durable and good utility/damage.

[Morwath.9817]

> @ZhouX.8742 said:

> > @Morwath.9817 said:

> > @ZhouX.8742

> > Quaggan would like to point out that meta "bunker druid" doesn't use beastmastery, but WS/NM/D.

>

> Ah true, I was thinking of paladin roamer with GS/LB, I think WS is only taken now though because condi mirage and scourge exists. Main matchup for druid. Otherwise there's little to no reason to run WS over BM as fury is irrelevant with staff. and sword/d.

>

> This actually makes kiting the pet in meta druid even much easier, as they lose their speed buff from BM. There should be little to no complaints in out positioning the pet at all in this case, but I imagine most of the complaint comes from people simply standing on point face tanking druid pet abilities :wink:

 

Ooo, as far as Quaggan knows both meta druid builds use Staff, one uses Sword+Warhorn (bunker), while other uses Bow to decap (this one uses BM, and its also using WS, but over NM). WS is as important against power builds as against condi builds, because its source of protection and protection is healing you with it, it also provides poison and fury which are important to win sustain wars in 1v1 fights.

[MyPuppy.8970]

How about creating a new profession "Pet", controlled by temporary or perma-banned players?

[OGDeadHead.8326]

> @MyPuppy.8970 said:

> How about creating a new profession "Pet", controlled by temporary or perma-banned players?

 

Rofl! That sure would be something! =)

 

[Arheundel.6451]

> @ArthurDent.9538 said:

> > @Chaith.8256 said:

> > Targeting a Ranger's pet should not be an intended strategy, it just kills the pacing of that duel. It's not fun for either player when someone is trying to focus down two pets simply to straight up deny the Druid the bulk of his damage from that point on. It becomes so un-fun for both parties because you're guaranteeing you'll fight for 2 minutes by not attacking the Druid, and the last minute the Druid will only be able to use half damage if you're successful. What an anti-climatic end, snooze-fest for sure.

> >

> > Reminds me of early Hunter 2v2's in WoW, with the 30 minute pet mini-games - if the Pet class' pet is dead, we can't lose, sweet, let's run around killing and reviving pets for 30 minutes! GW2's game modes certainly aren't beyond criticism either but I'm thankful this mechanic didn't make it in.

> >

> > PvP in GW2 ought to be Player v. Player, I probably speak for a good amount of players in being thankful that pet PvP mini-games aren't common when fighting Rangers currently. It's the Ranger's responsibility to keep it safe from area damage, let him be punished if he fails at that, but allowing him to have the tools to keep the pet alive 1v1 is fine.

>

> I think you make a good point but are ignoring the fact that not all pets are made equal. Pets all have different base stats where pets like birds and cats do a lot of damage but are very glassy, while bears don't do a lot of damage but are incredibly durable. If there is no fear of having the pet die, then there is no reason to run any pets other than the ones that have the best combination of damage + utility, tank pets like bears become totally useless (they pretty much are because even glassy pets are pretty durable). So unless A-net wants to give all pets the same defensive stats, and balance them based off of the combination of damage + utility, then killing the glassier high risk/high reward pets should be a viable option, as that is the intended weakness of those pets. Unfortunately smokescale is great damage + great utility + very tanky but most of the rest of them are reasonably balanced in this regard.

 

Before being able to call out this "valid strategy"...there should be a good reason to have it which would translate to rangers pets being considered an actual threat...and not something a decent player can simply sidestep always or oneshot from safe ranged distance and most of all..**they should get the damage unnerfed** as I guess you didn't know that birds and dogs got their dmg nerfed years ago...."too much burst" they were crying on this forum...isn't that ironic? As long as it kills...complains will always arise

[DerJoker.9081]

If a ranger uses one elite and one healing skill to bring his pet to 25 stacks might, you should expect it to hit a bit harder. If the ranger traits beast mastery just to give it some better sticking to target via increased movement speed and some bonus stats from beast mastery as well, the pet will do more dmg... That's what the trait line is for, to buff the pet. Add that SotP + Whao and pets do dmg...

If a ranger uses marksmanship instead, and won't stack might cause he's going with wilderness survival, no one will ever complain about pets hitting that hard, cause the simply can't do that anymore. If he's using beast mastery, cool focus the other and IG ore his solar beam, he will switch it out for any other and you don't have the problem anymore.

..

 

If a warrior waits until he has 3 adrenaline bars before using burst skills and traits for burst skills doing more dmg etc etc, noone EVER would complain about a warrior hitting them too hard with a burst skill....

 

If you see a ranger with beast mastery and shouts as utility (and there are only very situation options as elite other than Sotp) expect increased pet dmg after he elites and heals to copy the boons. If the ranger is only half decent, he will time his pets attack with the 25 might on it...

 

Go get your ranger friend and try without beast mastery and 25 stacks might. Smokescales assault does less than 3k like that, cause it won't even crit 70% of the time... Try bristleback and rockgazelle as well, same thing, with any pet....

 

On the other hand, if i buff my pet by any means with might, traits etc, I had the smokescale do 7k against a zerker ele.

Its just a matter of what the ranger invests to increase his pets dmg.

[Arheundel.6451]

> @Razor.6392 said:

> > @ZhouX.8742 said:

> > > @Razor.6392 said:

> > > > @ZhouX.8742 said:

> > > > > @Razor.6392 said:

> > > > > > @HeadCrowned.6834 said:

> > > > > > 1. Pets are useless in teamfights, they just melt.

> > > > > > 2. Once a pet dies, the Ranger has nog secondary mechanic to fall back on, unlike any other profession.

> > > > > > 3. Pets can have weird pathfinding, and quite often they dont hit their targets.

> > > > > > 4. A lot of utilities and traits rely on a pet. When you nerf the pet you gotta buff all those utilities and traits.

> > > > > > 5. People complain about that the amulet choice of the ranger does not impact the dps of a pet. If you make it so, they have to introduce reliable and worthwile supportive pets, otherwise you don't have a pet that matches with supportive amulets. At the same time, when a ranger equips berserker amulet, the pet should hit hard then as well. I'd expect new complains there.

> > > > >

> > > > > 1. Correction, they melt to aoe.

> > > > > 2. Then it should be in the ranger's best interest to keep it alive. _It's not hard_. Why should it be fine for druids to remain immortal? Add some risk to that high reward please.

> > > > > 3. I know this. This is not what the thread is about though.

> > > > > 4. The pet themselves aren't getting nerfed. Maybe you could add a defensive mechanic when you press the key to tell your pet to retreat (does anybody EVER use this?)

> > > > > 5. I'd be fine with this. It makes sense. If you want damage, you build damage. If you want tankiness, you build tankiness. Building tanky and getting damage (or viceversa) is bad design, much like anything warrior related, but I digress.

> > > >

> > > > 1. They melt to condi, which is what you'll be facing on a point as a druid mostly, condi mirage.

> > > > 2. It's not hard to keep a pet alive when the only ui option to is to force it back to you? So let me get this straight, you want them to keep the pet a live when druid is FORCED to be a far point bunker , so I would need to leave the point because the game doesn't want to give pets a dodge mechanic and just mindlessly walks through aoe , condi burst setups , etc and the only other option is to call it back to you? Your comment doesn't make sense and you've obviously never played druid/ranger at a high level against people who know this pet's weakness.

> > > > 3. Then you would know it's easy to manipulate this especially in places where even the smallest ledge is , because you'd then know that you can loop around it , forcing the pet to go the opposite way of you JUST TO GET TO YOU. There's tons of videos and top players who stream who do this.

> > > > 4. What does the pet having a retreat mechanic have to do with 50% of the traits in all of ranger's lines going to the pet? He's referring to needing to adjust basically the entire class for your proposal on 4. The 2 don't even match and your point makes no sense.

> > > > 5. You do understand dmg coefficients on all ranger weapons are lower by default for the very reason of your point #5 right? Ranger doesn't have the option you're referring to ... If we even wanted to go FULL glass damage , it still wouldn't be what every other class, and this is fine for the most part because there is a pet that helps with damage, but most importantly, cc - the dmg is near redundant - good rangers only want the smoke field and the cc - it's good for play setup. Ranger is one of the only classes where you can actually attempt to go full glass, not do nearly as much in terms of #'s as other classes but you also lose 90% of your survivability by doing so, you have to give up pretty much everything for that - condi removal, the only survivability lines you have, etc while also still having a lower dmg coefficient on weapons. Hence why bunker druid is the only role it has ever had after HoT pets got nerfed about 4-5 times. This is something complained about by rangers themselves for many years now.

> > > >

> > > > Please, just please try and play ranger/druid at a top level against actually good players before making a forum post like this or at least duel good players with it. You'll find you'll hardly kill many people which is the point, it's an annoying point bunker setup which is the ONLY role druid provides especially with Firebrand's existence - you'll also most likely find in doing this, better ways of handling druid as opposed to just coming to the forums asking for flat nerfs and nothing in compensation because you barely understand the class as a whole.

> > > >

> > > > I can ask you though, do you think most druid players wanted a point bunker? Probably not, in fact most of the people who play point bunker don't even main druid to begin with , it's just an effective annoying spec especially with spellbreaker nerfed and scourge basically. Most actual ranger top players wanted SB to be something worth playing at a meta level , but it's not and scourge exists and far point exists and anet's mentality towards druid as a whole is a bit close-minded - hence druid exists.

> > > >

> > > > Nerfing ranger's pet will do nothing for you to change this reality, which is why your post is just irrelevant and not properly thought out.

> > >

> > > 1. Alright then, make them more resistant to condi. What I'm saying is that IF A PLAYER WANTS TO GO OUT OF HIS WAY TO KILL IT, HE SHOULD BE ABLE TO.

> > > 2. You can also swap pets btw, maybe you didn't know this. It's fine, I understand.

> > > 3. Smokescale. The pet that every single ranger will use.

> > > 4. Nothing needs to be adjusted if you play it properly. Why is it assumed that the pet will die everytime? Is it so out of this world to ask a tiny bit of awareness and skill from druid players?

> > > 5. "Ranger is one of the only classes where you can actually attempt to go full glass, not do nearly as much in terms of #'s as other classes but you also lose 90% of your survivability by doing so." That's funny, I thought that was like, literally EVERY SINGLE CLASS THAT GOES FULL GLASS (except warrior). Also apparently 10k mauls and 10k rapid fires are low damage.

> > >

> > > >ranger/druid at a top level

> > >

> > > I'm sorry, but I honestly can't tell the difference from a bronze or a legend druid.

> >

> > "I'm sorry, but I honestly can't tell the difference from a bronze or a legend druid."

> >

> > Then you've most likely never been at a top level. Which is understandable just from your original post you've probably never stepped foot on an actually top tier team or do inners with top players or even duel top players like Kronos in duels.

> >

> > It's very clear you lack the very fundamentals to even be making a post regarding druid balance. Condi mirage beats druid , so your entire post here is irrelevant. It has counters, and out-rotating and +1's by thieves do far more work than a druid simply sitting on far and bunking the point.

> >

> > But yes, you can't tell the difference between a bronze or legend druid.

>

> Keep nitpicking and calling me names. That helps your argument a lot. Asking for more counterplay and skill in this forsaken game doesn't mean I'm a terrible player.

>

> Poor soul. I would rather be dead than pretend to be an elitist in a game where the pvp aspect is completely dead but hey, at least you can be pretend to be popular somewhere xD

>

> But hey, it's fine because 1 build (that is unanimously perceived as overpowered) supposedly kills druid. Geez dude, it's like you repel logic as much as you repel girls.

>

> Like, we're all talking about mechanics and ability design here and you come blabbing about rotations and +1s, it's like you 'top tier' pvpers are so drowned in your own nonsense that you keep mentioning incoherent details without noticing and probably in your everyday life as well LMAO

>

>

 

You are on to talk about name calling others

 

> @Razor.6392 said:

> So I don't get it. People keep saying these enemies in the video are not competitive? How many more times will red say that it was a monthly AT?

>

> ITT bunch of bronzelords that can't play ele saying it sucks. Get good lol.

 

You then "calmed" down once discovered that you were dealing with multiple times platinum/legendary/diamond players....

[shadowpass.4236]

> @Arheundel.6451 said:

> > @Razor.6392 said:

> > > @ZhouX.8742 said:

> > > > @Razor.6392 said:

> > > > > @ZhouX.8742 said:

> > > > > > @Razor.6392 said:

> > > > > > > @HeadCrowned.6834 said:

> > > > > > > 1. Pets are useless in teamfights, they just melt.

> > > > > > > 2. Once a pet dies, the Ranger has nog secondary mechanic to fall back on, unlike any other profession.

> > > > > > > 3. Pets can have weird pathfinding, and quite often they dont hit their targets.

> > > > > > > 4. A lot of utilities and traits rely on a pet. When you nerf the pet you gotta buff all those utilities and traits.

> > > > > > > 5. People complain about that the amulet choice of the ranger does not impact the dps of a pet. If you make it so, they have to introduce reliable and worthwile supportive pets, otherwise you don't have a pet that matches with supportive amulets. At the same time, when a ranger equips berserker amulet, the pet should hit hard then as well. I'd expect new complains there.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > 1. Correction, they melt to aoe.

> > > > > > 2. Then it should be in the ranger's best interest to keep it alive. _It's not hard_. Why should it be fine for druids to remain immortal? Add some risk to that high reward please.

> > > > > > 3. I know this. This is not what the thread is about though.

> > > > > > 4. The pet themselves aren't getting nerfed. Maybe you could add a defensive mechanic when you press the key to tell your pet to retreat (does anybody EVER use this?)

> > > > > > 5. I'd be fine with this. It makes sense. If you want damage, you build damage. If you want tankiness, you build tankiness. Building tanky and getting damage (or viceversa) is bad design, much like anything warrior related, but I digress.

> > > > >

> > > > > 1. They melt to condi, which is what you'll be facing on a point as a druid mostly, condi mirage.

> > > > > 2. It's not hard to keep a pet alive when the only ui option to is to force it back to you? So let me get this straight, you want them to keep the pet a live when druid is FORCED to be a far point bunker , so I would need to leave the point because the game doesn't want to give pets a dodge mechanic and just mindlessly walks through aoe , condi burst setups , etc and the only other option is to call it back to you? Your comment doesn't make sense and you've obviously never played druid/ranger at a high level against people who know this pet's weakness.

> > > > > 3. Then you would know it's easy to manipulate this especially in places where even the smallest ledge is , because you'd then know that you can loop around it , forcing the pet to go the opposite way of you JUST TO GET TO YOU. There's tons of videos and top players who stream who do this.

> > > > > 4. What does the pet having a retreat mechanic have to do with 50% of the traits in all of ranger's lines going to the pet? He's referring to needing to adjust basically the entire class for your proposal on 4. The 2 don't even match and your point makes no sense.

> > > > > 5. You do understand dmg coefficients on all ranger weapons are lower by default for the very reason of your point #5 right? Ranger doesn't have the option you're referring to ... If we even wanted to go FULL glass damage , it still wouldn't be what every other class, and this is fine for the most part because there is a pet that helps with damage, but most importantly, cc - the dmg is near redundant - good rangers only want the smoke field and the cc - it's good for play setup. Ranger is one of the only classes where you can actually attempt to go full glass, not do nearly as much in terms of #'s as other classes but you also lose 90% of your survivability by doing so, you have to give up pretty much everything for that - condi removal, the only survivability lines you have, etc while also still having a lower dmg coefficient on weapons. Hence why bunker druid is the only role it has ever had after HoT pets got nerfed about 4-5 times. This is something complained about by rangers themselves for many years now.

> > > > >

> > > > > Please, just please try and play ranger/druid at a top level against actually good players before making a forum post like this or at least duel good players with it. You'll find you'll hardly kill many people which is the point, it's an annoying point bunker setup which is the ONLY role druid provides especially with Firebrand's existence - you'll also most likely find in doing this, better ways of handling druid as opposed to just coming to the forums asking for flat nerfs and nothing in compensation because you barely understand the class as a whole.

> > > > >

> > > > > I can ask you though, do you think most druid players wanted a point bunker? Probably not, in fact most of the people who play point bunker don't even main druid to begin with , it's just an effective annoying spec especially with spellbreaker nerfed and scourge basically. Most actual ranger top players wanted SB to be something worth playing at a meta level , but it's not and scourge exists and far point exists and anet's mentality towards druid as a whole is a bit close-minded - hence druid exists.

> > > > >

> > > > > Nerfing ranger's pet will do nothing for you to change this reality, which is why your post is just irrelevant and not properly thought out.

> > > >

> > > > 1. Alright then, make them more resistant to condi. What I'm saying is that IF A PLAYER WANTS TO GO OUT OF HIS WAY TO KILL IT, HE SHOULD BE ABLE TO.

> > > > 2. You can also swap pets btw, maybe you didn't know this. It's fine, I understand.

> > > > 3. Smokescale. The pet that every single ranger will use.

> > > > 4. Nothing needs to be adjusted if you play it properly. Why is it assumed that the pet will die everytime? Is it so out of this world to ask a tiny bit of awareness and skill from druid players?

> > > > 5. "Ranger is one of the only classes where you can actually attempt to go full glass, not do nearly as much in terms of #'s as other classes but you also lose 90% of your survivability by doing so." That's funny, I thought that was like, literally EVERY SINGLE CLASS THAT GOES FULL GLASS (except warrior). Also apparently 10k mauls and 10k rapid fires are low damage.

> > > >

> > > > >ranger/druid at a top level

> > > >

> > > > I'm sorry, but I honestly can't tell the difference from a bronze or a legend druid.

> > >

> > > "I'm sorry, but I honestly can't tell the difference from a bronze or a legend druid."

> > >

> > > Then you've most likely never been at a top level. Which is understandable just from your original post you've probably never stepped foot on an actually top tier team or do inners with top players or even duel top players like Kronos in duels.

> > >

> > > It's very clear you lack the very fundamentals to even be making a post regarding druid balance. Condi mirage beats druid , so your entire post here is irrelevant. It has counters, and out-rotating and +1's by thieves do far more work than a druid simply sitting on far and bunking the point.

> > >

> > > But yes, you can't tell the difference between a bronze or legend druid.

> >

> > Keep nitpicking and calling me names. That helps your argument a lot. Asking for more counterplay and skill in this forsaken game doesn't mean I'm a terrible player.

> >

> > Poor soul. I would rather be dead than pretend to be an elitist in a game where the pvp aspect is completely dead but hey, at least you can be pretend to be popular somewhere xD

> >

> > But hey, it's fine because 1 build (that is unanimously perceived as overpowered) supposedly kills druid. Geez dude, it's like you repel logic as much as you repel girls.

> >

> > Like, we're all talking about mechanics and ability design here and you come blabbing about rotations and +1s, it's like you 'top tier' pvpers are so drowned in your own nonsense that you keep mentioning incoherent details without noticing and probably in your everyday life as well LMAO

> >

> >

>

> You are on to talk about name calling others

>

> > @Razor.6392 said:

> > So I don't get it. People keep saying these enemies in the video are not competitive? How many more times will red say that it was a monthly AT?

> >

> > ITT bunch of bronzelords that can't play ele saying it sucks. Get good lol.

>

> You then "calmed" down once discovered that you were dealing with multiple times platinum/legendary/diamond players....

 

It is also fair to say that the OP plays fresh air ele and it has one of the best matchups against ranger because the pet will literally be unable to hit him at all due to the constant super speed. Sc/F makes it so that a ranger's longbow is almost completely useless as well in a fight and the super speed means that s/d or gs will be unable to do sustained pressure to it. That means he is having trouble with 240 damage staff auto ticks, which can be easily out-healed by signet of restoration.

 

L2P Razor

[Lilyanna.9361]

> @shadowpass.4236 said:

> > @Arheundel.6451 said:

> > > @Razor.6392 said:

> > > > @ZhouX.8742 said:

> > > > > @Razor.6392 said:

> > > > > > @ZhouX.8742 said:

> > > > > > > @Razor.6392 said:

> > > > > > > > @HeadCrowned.6834 said:

> > > > > > > > 1. Pets are useless in teamfights, they just melt.

> > > > > > > > 2. Once a pet dies, the Ranger has nog secondary mechanic to fall back on, unlike any other profession.

> > > > > > > > 3. Pets can have weird pathfinding, and quite often they dont hit their targets.

> > > > > > > > 4. A lot of utilities and traits rely on a pet. When you nerf the pet you gotta buff all those utilities and traits.

> > > > > > > > 5. People complain about that the amulet choice of the ranger does not impact the dps of a pet. If you make it so, they have to introduce reliable and worthwile supportive pets, otherwise you don't have a pet that matches with supportive amulets. At the same time, when a ranger equips berserker amulet, the pet should hit hard then as well. I'd expect new complains there.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > 1. Correction, they melt to aoe.

> > > > > > > 2. Then it should be in the ranger's best interest to keep it alive. _It's not hard_. Why should it be fine for druids to remain immortal? Add some risk to that high reward please.

> > > > > > > 3. I know this. This is not what the thread is about though.

> > > > > > > 4. The pet themselves aren't getting nerfed. Maybe you could add a defensive mechanic when you press the key to tell your pet to retreat (does anybody EVER use this?)

> > > > > > > 5. I'd be fine with this. It makes sense. If you want damage, you build damage. If you want tankiness, you build tankiness. Building tanky and getting damage (or viceversa) is bad design, much like anything warrior related, but I digress.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > 1. They melt to condi, which is what you'll be facing on a point as a druid mostly, condi mirage.

> > > > > > 2. It's not hard to keep a pet alive when the only ui option to is to force it back to you? So let me get this straight, you want them to keep the pet a live when druid is FORCED to be a far point bunker , so I would need to leave the point because the game doesn't want to give pets a dodge mechanic and just mindlessly walks through aoe , condi burst setups , etc and the only other option is to call it back to you? Your comment doesn't make sense and you've obviously never played druid/ranger at a high level against people who know this pet's weakness.

> > > > > > 3. Then you would know it's easy to manipulate this especially in places where even the smallest ledge is , because you'd then know that you can loop around it , forcing the pet to go the opposite way of you JUST TO GET TO YOU. There's tons of videos and top players who stream who do this.

> > > > > > 4. What does the pet having a retreat mechanic have to do with 50% of the traits in all of ranger's lines going to the pet? He's referring to needing to adjust basically the entire class for your proposal on 4. The 2 don't even match and your point makes no sense.

> > > > > > 5. You do understand dmg coefficients on all ranger weapons are lower by default for the very reason of your point #5 right? Ranger doesn't have the option you're referring to ... If we even wanted to go FULL glass damage , it still wouldn't be what every other class, and this is fine for the most part because there is a pet that helps with damage, but most importantly, cc - the dmg is near redundant - good rangers only want the smoke field and the cc - it's good for play setup. Ranger is one of the only classes where you can actually attempt to go full glass, not do nearly as much in terms of #'s as other classes but you also lose 90% of your survivability by doing so, you have to give up pretty much everything for that - condi removal, the only survivability lines you have, etc while also still having a lower dmg coefficient on weapons. Hence why bunker druid is the only role it has ever had after HoT pets got nerfed about 4-5 times. This is something complained about by rangers themselves for many years now.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Please, just please try and play ranger/druid at a top level against actually good players before making a forum post like this or at least duel good players with it. You'll find you'll hardly kill many people which is the point, it's an annoying point bunker setup which is the ONLY role druid provides especially with Firebrand's existence - you'll also most likely find in doing this, better ways of handling druid as opposed to just coming to the forums asking for flat nerfs and nothing in compensation because you barely understand the class as a whole.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I can ask you though, do you think most druid players wanted a point bunker? Probably not, in fact most of the people who play point bunker don't even main druid to begin with , it's just an effective annoying spec especially with spellbreaker nerfed and scourge basically. Most actual ranger top players wanted SB to be something worth playing at a meta level , but it's not and scourge exists and far point exists and anet's mentality towards druid as a whole is a bit close-minded - hence druid exists.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Nerfing ranger's pet will do nothing for you to change this reality, which is why your post is just irrelevant and not properly thought out.

> > > > >

> > > > > 1. Alright then, make them more resistant to condi. What I'm saying is that IF A PLAYER WANTS TO GO OUT OF HIS WAY TO KILL IT, HE SHOULD BE ABLE TO.

> > > > > 2. You can also swap pets btw, maybe you didn't know this. It's fine, I understand.

> > > > > 3. Smokescale. The pet that every single ranger will use.

> > > > > 4. Nothing needs to be adjusted if you play it properly. Why is it assumed that the pet will die everytime? Is it so out of this world to ask a tiny bit of awareness and skill from druid players?

> > > > > 5. "Ranger is one of the only classes where you can actually attempt to go full glass, not do nearly as much in terms of #'s as other classes but you also lose 90% of your survivability by doing so." That's funny, I thought that was like, literally EVERY SINGLE CLASS THAT GOES FULL GLASS (except warrior). Also apparently 10k mauls and 10k rapid fires are low damage.

> > > > >

> > > > > >ranger/druid at a top level

> > > > >

> > > > > I'm sorry, but I honestly can't tell the difference from a bronze or a legend druid.

> > > >

> > > > "I'm sorry, but I honestly can't tell the difference from a bronze or a legend druid."

> > > >

> > > > Then you've most likely never been at a top level. Which is understandable just from your original post you've probably never stepped foot on an actually top tier team or do inners with top players or even duel top players like Kronos in duels.

> > > >

> > > > It's very clear you lack the very fundamentals to even be making a post regarding druid balance. Condi mirage beats druid , so your entire post here is irrelevant. It has counters, and out-rotating and +1's by thieves do far more work than a druid simply sitting on far and bunking the point.

> > > >

> > > > But yes, you can't tell the difference between a bronze or legend druid.

> > >

> > > Keep nitpicking and calling me names. That helps your argument a lot. Asking for more counterplay and skill in this forsaken game doesn't mean I'm a terrible player.

> > >

> > > Poor soul. I would rather be dead than pretend to be an elitist in a game where the pvp aspect is completely dead but hey, at least you can be pretend to be popular somewhere xD

> > >

> > > But hey, it's fine because 1 build (that is unanimously perceived as overpowered) supposedly kills druid. Geez dude, it's like you repel logic as much as you repel girls.

> > >

> > > Like, we're all talking about mechanics and ability design here and you come blabbing about rotations and +1s, it's like you 'top tier' pvpers are so drowned in your own nonsense that you keep mentioning incoherent details without noticing and probably in your everyday life as well LMAO

> > >

> > >

> >

> > You are on to talk about name calling others

> >

> > > @Razor.6392 said:

> > > So I don't get it. People keep saying these enemies in the video are not competitive? How many more times will red say that it was a monthly AT?

> > >

> > > ITT bunch of bronzelords that can't play ele saying it sucks. Get good lol.

> >

> > You then "calmed" down once discovered that you were dealing with multiple times platinum/legendary/diamond players....

>

> It is also fair to say that the OP plays fresh air ele and it has one of the best matchups against ranger because the pet will literally be unable to hit him at all due to the constant super speed. Sc/F makes it so that a ranger's longbow is almost completely useless as well in a fight and the super speed means that s/d or gs will be unable to do sustained pressure to it. That means he is having trouble with 240 damage staff auto ticks, which can be easily out-healed by signet of restoration.

>

> L2P Razor

 

Makes me cringe watching someone vouch for ele and then make an embarrassing thread like this tbh.

 

Quarter of a reason why eles ain't getting buffed, some of the ele players do things like this lmfao.

[Rap Tiger.1257]

I find it funny if you play mesmer, chrono or mainly mirage and complain of pet op, mirage applies both condition that it is difficult to keep my pet alive and even I live. maybe it should nerf damage both damage and condition of your clones too, in case we come nerf our pets that can hardly attack mirage for having so much evasion and invulnerability

[shadowpass.4236]

> @Razor.6392 said:

> > @Lilyanna.9361 said:

> > > @shadowpass.4236 said:

> > > > @Arheundel.6451 said:

> > > > > @Razor.6392 said:

> > > > > > @ZhouX.8742 said:

> > > > > > > @Razor.6392 said:

> > > > > > > > @ZhouX.8742 said:

> > > > > > > > > @Razor.6392 said:

> > > > > > > > > > @HeadCrowned.6834 said:

> > > > > > > > > > 1. Pets are useless in teamfights, they just melt.

> > > > > > > > > > 2. Once a pet dies, the Ranger has nog secondary mechanic to fall back on, unlike any other profession.

> > > > > > > > > > 3. Pets can have weird pathfinding, and quite often they dont hit their targets.

> > > > > > > > > > 4. A lot of utilities and traits rely on a pet. When you nerf the pet you gotta buff all those utilities and traits.

> > > > > > > > > > 5. People complain about that the amulet choice of the ranger does not impact the dps of a pet. If you make it so, they have to introduce reliable and worthwile supportive pets, otherwise you don't have a pet that matches with supportive amulets. At the same time, when a ranger equips berserker amulet, the pet should hit hard then as well. I'd expect new complains there.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > 1. Correction, they melt to aoe.

> > > > > > > > > 2. Then it should be in the ranger's best interest to keep it alive. _It's not hard_. Why should it be fine for druids to remain immortal? Add some risk to that high reward please.

> > > > > > > > > 3. I know this. This is not what the thread is about though.

> > > > > > > > > 4. The pet themselves aren't getting nerfed. Maybe you could add a defensive mechanic when you press the key to tell your pet to retreat (does anybody EVER use this?)

> > > > > > > > > 5. I'd be fine with this. It makes sense. If you want damage, you build damage. If you want tankiness, you build tankiness. Building tanky and getting damage (or viceversa) is bad design, much like anything warrior related, but I digress.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > 1. They melt to condi, which is what you'll be facing on a point as a druid mostly, condi mirage.

> > > > > > > > 2. It's not hard to keep a pet alive when the only ui option to is to force it back to you? So let me get this straight, you want them to keep the pet a live when druid is FORCED to be a far point bunker , so I would need to leave the point because the game doesn't want to give pets a dodge mechanic and just mindlessly walks through aoe , condi burst setups , etc and the only other option is to call it back to you? Your comment doesn't make sense and you've obviously never played druid/ranger at a high level against people who know this pet's weakness.

> > > > > > > > 3. Then you would know it's easy to manipulate this especially in places where even the smallest ledge is , because you'd then know that you can loop around it , forcing the pet to go the opposite way of you JUST TO GET TO YOU. There's tons of videos and top players who stream who do this.

> > > > > > > > 4. What does the pet having a retreat mechanic have to do with 50% of the traits in all of ranger's lines going to the pet? He's referring to needing to adjust basically the entire class for your proposal on 4. The 2 don't even match and your point makes no sense.

> > > > > > > > 5. You do understand dmg coefficients on all ranger weapons are lower by default for the very reason of your point #5 right? Ranger doesn't have the option you're referring to ... If we even wanted to go FULL glass damage , it still wouldn't be what every other class, and this is fine for the most part because there is a pet that helps with damage, but most importantly, cc - the dmg is near redundant - good rangers only want the smoke field and the cc - it's good for play setup. Ranger is one of the only classes where you can actually attempt to go full glass, not do nearly as much in terms of #'s as other classes but you also lose 90% of your survivability by doing so, you have to give up pretty much everything for that - condi removal, the only survivability lines you have, etc while also still having a lower dmg coefficient on weapons. Hence why bunker druid is the only role it has ever had after HoT pets got nerfed about 4-5 times. This is something complained about by rangers themselves for many years now.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Please, just please try and play ranger/druid at a top level against actually good players before making a forum post like this or at least duel good players with it. You'll find you'll hardly kill many people which is the point, it's an annoying point bunker setup which is the ONLY role druid provides especially with Firebrand's existence - you'll also most likely find in doing this, better ways of handling druid as opposed to just coming to the forums asking for flat nerfs and nothing in compensation because you barely understand the class as a whole.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > I can ask you though, do you think most druid players wanted a point bunker? Probably not, in fact most of the people who play point bunker don't even main druid to begin with , it's just an effective annoying spec especially with spellbreaker nerfed and scourge basically. Most actual ranger top players wanted SB to be something worth playing at a meta level , but it's not and scourge exists and far point exists and anet's mentality towards druid as a whole is a bit close-minded - hence druid exists.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Nerfing ranger's pet will do nothing for you to change this reality, which is why your post is just irrelevant and not properly thought out.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > 1. Alright then, make them more resistant to condi. What I'm saying is that IF A PLAYER WANTS TO GO OUT OF HIS WAY TO KILL IT, HE SHOULD BE ABLE TO.

> > > > > > > 2. You can also swap pets btw, maybe you didn't know this. It's fine, I understand.

> > > > > > > 3. Smokescale. The pet that every single ranger will use.

> > > > > > > 4. Nothing needs to be adjusted if you play it properly. Why is it assumed that the pet will die everytime? Is it so out of this world to ask a tiny bit of awareness and skill from druid players?

> > > > > > > 5. "Ranger is one of the only classes where you can actually attempt to go full glass, not do nearly as much in terms of #'s as other classes but you also lose 90% of your survivability by doing so." That's funny, I thought that was like, literally EVERY SINGLE CLASS THAT GOES FULL GLASS (except warrior). Also apparently 10k mauls and 10k rapid fires are low damage.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >ranger/druid at a top level

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > I'm sorry, but I honestly can't tell the difference from a bronze or a legend druid.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > "I'm sorry, but I honestly can't tell the difference from a bronze or a legend druid."

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Then you've most likely never been at a top level. Which is understandable just from your original post you've probably never stepped foot on an actually top tier team or do inners with top players or even duel top players like Kronos in duels.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > It's very clear you lack the very fundamentals to even be making a post regarding druid balance. Condi mirage beats druid , so your entire post here is irrelevant. It has counters, and out-rotating and +1's by thieves do far more work than a druid simply sitting on far and bunking the point.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > But yes, you can't tell the difference between a bronze or legend druid.

> > > > >

> > > > > Keep nitpicking and calling me names. That helps your argument a lot. Asking for more counterplay and skill in this forsaken game doesn't mean I'm a terrible player.

> > > > >

> > > > > Poor soul. I would rather be dead than pretend to be an elitist in a game where the pvp aspect is completely dead but hey, at least you can be pretend to be popular somewhere xD

> > > > >

> > > > > But hey, it's fine because 1 build (that is unanimously perceived as overpowered) supposedly kills druid. Geez dude, it's like you repel logic as much as you repel girls.

> > > > >

> > > > > Like, we're all talking about mechanics and ability design here and you come blabbing about rotations and +1s, it's like you 'top tier' pvpers are so drowned in your own nonsense that you keep mentioning incoherent details without noticing and probably in your everyday life as well LMAO

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > You are on to talk about name calling others

> > > >

> > > > > @Razor.6392 said:

> > > > > So I don't get it. People keep saying these enemies in the video are not competitive? How many more times will red say that it was a monthly AT?

> > > > >

> > > > > ITT bunch of bronzelords that can't play ele saying it sucks. Get good lol.

> > > >

> > > > You then "calmed" down once discovered that you were dealing with multiple times platinum/legendary/diamond players....

> > >

> > > It is also fair to say that the OP plays fresh air ele and it has one of the best matchups against ranger because the pet will literally be unable to hit him at all due to the constant super speed. Sc/F makes it so that a ranger's longbow is almost completely useless as well in a fight and the super speed means that s/d or gs will be unable to do sustained pressure to it. That means he is having trouble with 240 damage staff auto ticks, which can be easily out-healed by signet of restoration.

> > >

> > > L2P Razor

> >

> > Makes me cringe watching someone vouch for ele and then make an embarrassing thread like this tbh.

> >

> > Quarter of a reason why eles ain't getting buffed, some of the ele players do things like this lmfao.

>

> Please capture footage of you beating a bunker druid. I wanna see it. kitten kitten lmfao.

 

A lot of things can beat a bunker druid.

 

You literally run one of the hard counters to druid and still complain about it.

[Razor.6392]

> @shadowpass.4236 said:

> > @Razor.6392 said:

> > > @Lilyanna.9361 said:

> > > > @shadowpass.4236 said:

> > > > > @Arheundel.6451 said:

> > > > > > @Razor.6392 said:

> > > > > > > @ZhouX.8742 said:

> > > > > > > > @Razor.6392 said:

> > > > > > > > > @ZhouX.8742 said:

> > > > > > > > > > @Razor.6392 said:

> > > > > > > > > > > @HeadCrowned.6834 said:

> > > > > > > > > > > 1. Pets are useless in teamfights, they just melt.

> > > > > > > > > > > 2. Once a pet dies, the Ranger has nog secondary mechanic to fall back on, unlike any other profession.

> > > > > > > > > > > 3. Pets can have weird pathfinding, and quite often they dont hit their targets.

> > > > > > > > > > > 4. A lot of utilities and traits rely on a pet. When you nerf the pet you gotta buff all those utilities and traits.

> > > > > > > > > > > 5. People complain about that the amulet choice of the ranger does not impact the dps of a pet. If you make it so, they have to introduce reliable and worthwile supportive pets, otherwise you don't have a pet that matches with supportive amulets. At the same time, when a ranger equips berserker amulet, the pet should hit hard then as well. I'd expect new complains there.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > 1. Correction, they melt to aoe.

> > > > > > > > > > 2. Then it should be in the ranger's best interest to keep it alive. _It's not hard_. Why should it be fine for druids to remain immortal? Add some risk to that high reward please.

> > > > > > > > > > 3. I know this. This is not what the thread is about though.

> > > > > > > > > > 4. The pet themselves aren't getting nerfed. Maybe you could add a defensive mechanic when you press the key to tell your pet to retreat (does anybody EVER use this?)

> > > > > > > > > > 5. I'd be fine with this. It makes sense. If you want damage, you build damage. If you want tankiness, you build tankiness. Building tanky and getting damage (or viceversa) is bad design, much like anything warrior related, but I digress.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > 1. They melt to condi, which is what you'll be facing on a point as a druid mostly, condi mirage.

> > > > > > > > > 2. It's not hard to keep a pet alive when the only ui option to is to force it back to you? So let me get this straight, you want them to keep the pet a live when druid is FORCED to be a far point bunker , so I would need to leave the point because the game doesn't want to give pets a dodge mechanic and just mindlessly walks through aoe , condi burst setups , etc and the only other option is to call it back to you? Your comment doesn't make sense and you've obviously never played druid/ranger at a high level against people who know this pet's weakness.

> > > > > > > > > 3. Then you would know it's easy to manipulate this especially in places where even the smallest ledge is , because you'd then know that you can loop around it , forcing the pet to go the opposite way of you JUST TO GET TO YOU. There's tons of videos and top players who stream who do this.

> > > > > > > > > 4. What does the pet having a retreat mechanic have to do with 50% of the traits in all of ranger's lines going to the pet? He's referring to needing to adjust basically the entire class for your proposal on 4. The 2 don't even match and your point makes no sense.

> > > > > > > > > 5. You do understand dmg coefficients on all ranger weapons are lower by default for the very reason of your point #5 right? Ranger doesn't have the option you're referring to ... If we even wanted to go FULL glass damage , it still wouldn't be what every other class, and this is fine for the most part because there is a pet that helps with damage, but most importantly, cc - the dmg is near redundant - good rangers only want the smoke field and the cc - it's good for play setup. Ranger is one of the only classes where you can actually attempt to go full glass, not do nearly as much in terms of #'s as other classes but you also lose 90% of your survivability by doing so, you have to give up pretty much everything for that - condi removal, the only survivability lines you have, etc while also still having a lower dmg coefficient on weapons. Hence why bunker druid is the only role it has ever had after HoT pets got nerfed about 4-5 times. This is something complained about by rangers themselves for many years now.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Please, just please try and play ranger/druid at a top level against actually good players before making a forum post like this or at least duel good players with it. You'll find you'll hardly kill many people which is the point, it's an annoying point bunker setup which is the ONLY role druid provides especially with Firebrand's existence - you'll also most likely find in doing this, better ways of handling druid as opposed to just coming to the forums asking for flat nerfs and nothing in compensation because you barely understand the class as a whole.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > I can ask you though, do you think most druid players wanted a point bunker? Probably not, in fact most of the people who play point bunker don't even main druid to begin with , it's just an effective annoying spec especially with spellbreaker nerfed and scourge basically. Most actual ranger top players wanted SB to be something worth playing at a meta level , but it's not and scourge exists and far point exists and anet's mentality towards druid as a whole is a bit close-minded - hence druid exists.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Nerfing ranger's pet will do nothing for you to change this reality, which is why your post is just irrelevant and not properly thought out.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > 1. Alright then, make them more resistant to condi. What I'm saying is that IF A PLAYER WANTS TO GO OUT OF HIS WAY TO KILL IT, HE SHOULD BE ABLE TO.

> > > > > > > > 2. You can also swap pets btw, maybe you didn't know this. It's fine, I understand.

> > > > > > > > 3. Smokescale. The pet that every single ranger will use.

> > > > > > > > 4. Nothing needs to be adjusted if you play it properly. Why is it assumed that the pet will die everytime? Is it so out of this world to ask a tiny bit of awareness and skill from druid players?

> > > > > > > > 5. "Ranger is one of the only classes where you can actually attempt to go full glass, not do nearly as much in terms of #'s as other classes but you also lose 90% of your survivability by doing so." That's funny, I thought that was like, literally EVERY SINGLE CLASS THAT GOES FULL GLASS (except warrior). Also apparently 10k mauls and 10k rapid fires are low damage.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >ranger/druid at a top level

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > I'm sorry, but I honestly can't tell the difference from a bronze or a legend druid.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > "I'm sorry, but I honestly can't tell the difference from a bronze or a legend druid."

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Then you've most likely never been at a top level. Which is understandable just from your original post you've probably never stepped foot on an actually top tier team or do inners with top players or even duel top players like Kronos in duels.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > It's very clear you lack the very fundamentals to even be making a post regarding druid balance. Condi mirage beats druid , so your entire post here is irrelevant. It has counters, and out-rotating and +1's by thieves do far more work than a druid simply sitting on far and bunking the point.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > But yes, you can't tell the difference between a bronze or legend druid.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Keep nitpicking and calling me names. That helps your argument a lot. Asking for more counterplay and skill in this forsaken game doesn't mean I'm a terrible player.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Poor soul. I would rather be dead than pretend to be an elitist in a game where the pvp aspect is completely dead but hey, at least you can be pretend to be popular somewhere xD

> > > > > >

> > > > > > But hey, it's fine because 1 build (that is unanimously perceived as overpowered) supposedly kills druid. Geez dude, it's like you repel logic as much as you repel girls.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Like, we're all talking about mechanics and ability design here and you come blabbing about rotations and +1s, it's like you 'top tier' pvpers are so drowned in your own nonsense that you keep mentioning incoherent details without noticing and probably in your everyday life as well LMAO

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > You are on to talk about name calling others

> > > > >

> > > > > > @Razor.6392 said:

> > > > > > So I don't get it. People keep saying these enemies in the video are not competitive? How many more times will red say that it was a monthly AT?

> > > > > >

> > > > > > ITT bunch of bronzelords that can't play ele saying it sucks. Get good lol.

> > > > >

> > > > > You then "calmed" down once discovered that you were dealing with multiple times platinum/legendary/diamond players....

> > > >

> > > > It is also fair to say that the OP plays fresh air ele and it has one of the best matchups against ranger because the pet will literally be unable to hit him at all due to the constant super speed. Sc/F makes it so that a ranger's longbow is almost completely useless as well in a fight and the super speed means that s/d or gs will be unable to do sustained pressure to it. That means he is having trouble with 240 damage staff auto ticks, which can be easily out-healed by signet of restoration.

> > > >

> > > > L2P Razor

> > >

> > > Makes me cringe watching someone vouch for ele and then make an embarrassing thread like this tbh.

> > >

> > > Quarter of a reason why eles ain't getting buffed, some of the ele players do things like this lmfao.

> >

> > Please capture footage of you beating a bunker druid. I wanna see it. kitten kitten lmfao.

>

> A lot of things can beat a bunker druid.

>

> You literally run one of the hard counters to druid and still complain about it.

 

From what I've gathered in this thread, only one thing can beat bunker druid, and that is mirage. But sure, LOOOOTS of things, right?

 

Did you just get an epiphany or something after you woke up? Because you're just bringing this up now. Just because of superspeed and long cooldown reflects doesn't mean ele wins easily. That's like saying staff ele beats PP thief because they got a magnetic aura.

 

I know you're biased. No need to hide it buddy. I wonder how many fresh air eles beat a druid (non bunker, because bunker is impossible) on the regular. From my experience, the lack of sustain, that scepter ele has against druid, on top of the builds that often run 2-3 short cd stun breaks, means that it's not an easy matchup. You really have to play perfectly to beat them while they can just mash CA off cd and heal to full. Don't make it sound like it's a walk in the park like Deadeye vs fresh air. Even scourge, a good matchup, can go wrong really fast if you mess up once.

 

From my experience, this is how it goes against most druids:

 

* They start in long bow

* I use swirling winds

* They switch to greatsword and close the gap / switch to sword and start dodging around for 10 seconds.

* Burst them down as much as possible during this time. Try to CC, they either immediately stunbreak or shared anguish kicks in. Auto-weakness proc may or may not be there (cannot really remove it on weaver)

* Back to longbow, try to anticipate the PBS, but sometimes they immediately hunter's shot, and now you have to guess when it's coming

* If it lands, eat some rapid fire for a lot of damage while I may or may not be rooted (ancient seeds). If it doesn't pressure some more.

* Swirling winds again, they switch weapon.

* They go into CA.

* Leave CA, stealth mode. Try to anticipate PBS.

* They are full health, I'm not. Start from the beginning.

 

During all of this time, the pet has landed smoke assaults and has been a general annoyance.

 

Surely I suck, and I could be doing much better, right? Since this is supposedly a 7-3 matchup in ele's favor from the sound of it.

[Chaith.8256]

> @shadowpass.4236 said:

>

> A lot of things can beat a bunker druid.

>

> You literally run one of the hard counters to druid and still complain about it.

 

He was saying Bunker druid but you replied talking about lower rated builds with Longbow and GS which you were saying Fresh Air would hard counter.. bunker druid has neither of those. Honestly how do you die as the metabattle Bunker Druid to Fresh Air ele? Seems impossible to consider that a hard counter against that Druid. So few power professions are enough to dispatch a competent Druid who's trying to live, that's the Druid's strength.

 

IMO you guys are both so intent on comparing appendages that you're both exaggerating your points

 

 

[shadowpass.4236]

> @Chaith.8256 said:

> > @shadowpass.4236 said:

> >

> > A lot of things can beat a bunker druid.

> >

> > You literally run one of the hard counters to druid and still complain about it.

>

> He was saying Bunker druid but you replied talking about lower rated builds with Longbow and GS which you were saying Fresh Air would hard counter.. bunker druid has neither of those. Honestly how do you die as the metabattle Bunker Druid to Fresh Air ele? Seems impossible to consider that a hard counter against that Druid. So few power professions are enough to dispatch a competent Druid who's trying to live, that's the Druid's strength.

>

> IMO you guys are both so intent on comparing appendages that you're both exaggerating your points

>

>

 

I just mentioned how fresh air counters longbow with focus and gs _and_ s/d with super speed.

 

Staff pings shouldn't be a problem as they do less damage than signet of restoration procs. The pet already has trouble hitting a moving target with swiftness, the super speed makes it impossible unless the smokescale uses smoke assault. Ranged pets are useless against focus as well.

 

Diccoco plays s/f really well and I've consistently lost to him on that build back when he still played, simply because fresh air completely hard counters our pet and weapons.