Rezzet.3614 Posted December 4, 2017 Share Posted December 4, 2017 I support stealth having a visible queue either based on vicinity or like heroes of the storm , it still will be a powerful mechanic cuz the stealthed player wont be targeted by skills Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OriOri.8724 Posted December 4, 2017 Share Posted December 4, 2017 > @Cynz.9437 said: > > @Morwath.9817 said: > > Ooo, and Quaggan is pretty sure, you went offtopic boyz. > > How dare you to assume my gender!!!? I identify myself as sneaky salad. At least in game :P > > On more serious note, i have yet to see one good argument why Anet should invest so many resources into changing stealth mechanic and adjusting all the stealth related spells/traits because of it. Because its just not implemented well in GW? That should be reason enough honestly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shirlias.8104 Posted December 4, 2017 Share Posted December 4, 2017 > @Morwath.9817 said: > Could we get rework like Heroes of the Storm? > >  > AHAHAhAhAhAhahAHAh :lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miles Smiles.8951 Posted December 5, 2017 Share Posted December 5, 2017 I'd rather stealth would work like some other dimension - a realm of shadows or smth - where all stealthed players enter and can see each other there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XxsdgxX.8109 Posted December 5, 2017 Share Posted December 5, 2017 Stealth has always and will always be inherently overpowered. Easier to just remove or never include that mechanic in a game with PvP. Would be really nice to have a rework for stealth in Gw2 but then we also need reworks for many other things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solori.6025 Posted December 5, 2017 Share Posted December 5, 2017 > @OriOri.8724 said: > > @Cynz.9437 said: > > > @Morwath.9817 said: > > > Ooo, and Quaggan is pretty sure, you went offtopic boyz. > > > > How dare you to assume my gender!!!? I identify myself as sneaky salad. At least in game :P > > > > On more serious note, i have yet to see one good argument why Anet should invest so many resources into changing stealth mechanic and adjusting all the stealth related spells/traits because of it. > > Because its just not implemented well in GW? That should be reason enough honestly. That would require the Dev team to completely rework two classes and with 5 years in, I don't see that happening Though I would love it if mesmer was more like a mix of This ^ and This.. but that would require a LOT of dev time and resources which this dev team simply does not have Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kapax.3801 Posted December 5, 2017 Share Posted December 5, 2017 The subject of Hots was more than anything because: * Stealth is not invisibility, but to try to pass without being perceived. * People with eyesight problems could not distinguish well the distortion on the screen, then either it was placed 2cm from the screen or left it to its fate. The problem here is that they do not have a definite good that is stealth, that is why it directly becomes invisible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cynz.9437 Posted December 5, 2017 Share Posted December 5, 2017 > @Morwath.9817 said: > > @Cynz.9437 said: > > > @Morwath.9817 said: > > > Ooo, and Quaggan is pretty sure, you went offtopic boyz. > > > > How dare you to assume my gender!!!? I identify myself as sneaky salad. At least in game :P > > > > On more serious note, i have yet to see one good argument why Anet should invest so many resources into changing stealth mechanic and adjusting all the stealth related spells/traits because of it. > > Quaggan doesn't assume anything, Quaggan was talking with fishies and they told Quaggan. > If you're looking for a good reason, then making stuff more fun, enjoyable and less frustrating for new or inexperienced players should be enough reason to rework it. Fun and enjoyable are very subjective. I find invuls, passives, passive regens that nearly outheal AA, AI, crap load of aoe and many other things unenjoyable but i highly doubt you would give up that if it affected your main class. > @OriOri.8724 said: > > @Cynz.9437 said: > > > @Morwath.9817 said: > > > Ooo, and Quaggan is pretty sure, you went offtopic boyz. > > > > How dare you to assume my gender!!!? I identify myself as sneaky salad. At least in game :P > > > > On more serious note, i have yet to see one good argument why Anet should invest so many resources into changing stealth mechanic and adjusting all the stealth related spells/traits because of it. > > Because its just not implemented well in GW? That should be reason enough honestly. Different game, different mechanics. Once again, they would have to rework a lot of spells/traits and mechanics just because people have 0 map awareness. I remain by my opinion, that there are greater issues in pvp and wvw that Anet could invest into. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morwath.9817 Posted December 5, 2017 Author Share Posted December 5, 2017 > @Cynz.9437 said: > > @Morwath.9817 said: > > > @Cynz.9437 said: > > > > @Morwath.9817 said: > > > > Ooo, and Quaggan is pretty sure, you went offtopic boyz. > > > > > > How dare you to assume my gender!!!? I identify myself as sneaky salad. At least in game :P > > > > > > On more serious note, i have yet to see one good argument why Anet should invest so many resources into changing stealth mechanic and adjusting all the stealth related spells/traits because of it. > > > > Quaggan doesn't assume anything, Quaggan was talking with fishies and they told Quaggan. > > If you're looking for a good reason, then making stuff more fun, enjoyable and less frustrating for new or inexperienced players should be enough reason to rework it. > > Fun and enjoyable are very subjective. I find invuls, passives, passive regens that nearly outheal AA, AI, crap load of aoe and many other things unenjoyable but i highly doubt you would give up that if it affected your main class. > Nah, Quaggan would get rid of all passive gameplay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OriOri.8724 Posted December 5, 2017 Share Posted December 5, 2017 > @Cynz.9437 said: > > @Morwath.9817 said: > > > @Cynz.9437 said: > > > > @Morwath.9817 said: > > > > Ooo, and Quaggan is pretty sure, you went offtopic boyz. > > > > > > How dare you to assume my gender!!!? I identify myself as sneaky salad. At least in game :P > > > > > > On more serious note, i have yet to see one good argument why Anet should invest so many resources into changing stealth mechanic and adjusting all the stealth related spells/traits because of it. > > > > Quaggan doesn't assume anything, Quaggan was talking with fishies and they told Quaggan. > > If you're looking for a good reason, then making stuff more fun, enjoyable and less frustrating for new or inexperienced players should be enough reason to rework it. > > Fun and enjoyable are very subjective. I find invuls, passives, passive regens that nearly outheal AA, AI, crap load of aoe and many other things unenjoyable but i highly doubt you would give up that if it affected your main class. > > > @OriOri.8724 said: > > > @Cynz.9437 said: > > > > @Morwath.9817 said: > > > > Ooo, and Quaggan is pretty sure, you went offtopic boyz. > > > > > > How dare you to assume my gender!!!? I identify myself as sneaky salad. At least in game :P > > > > > > On more serious note, i have yet to see one good argument why Anet should invest so many resources into changing stealth mechanic and adjusting all the stealth related spells/traits because of it. > > > > Because its just not implemented well in GW? That should be reason enough honestly. > > Different game, different mechanics. Once again, they would have to rework a lot of spells/traits and mechanics just because people have 0 map awareness. I remain by my opinion, that there are greater issues in pvp and wvw that Anet could invest into. This is more than just a PvP issue though. Stealth is borderline useless in PvE. Its only useful to skip mobs in dungeons (which very few people run anymore), 1 fractal, and to get HP when you are too lazy to kill the monster guarding it. Everywhere else the best use of stealth is for thieves to get +200 power when they get revealed, which shows huge design problems from a PvE perspective for stealth. In PvP it has huge downsides in that thief relies on stealth, yet cannot contest a point while stealthed, for good reasons. This does nothing but hamstring the entire class when the entire game mode is centered around contesting points, in every map (which is another issue entirely). Stealth in Gw2 is just a really bad implementation, in every game mode. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cynz.9437 Posted December 5, 2017 Share Posted December 5, 2017 > @OriOri.8724 said: > > @Cynz.9437 said: > > > @Morwath.9817 said: > > > > @Cynz.9437 said: > > > > > @Morwath.9817 said: > > > > > Ooo, and Quaggan is pretty sure, you went offtopic boyz. > > > > > > > > How dare you to assume my gender!!!? I identify myself as sneaky salad. At least in game :P > > > > > > > > On more serious note, i have yet to see one good argument why Anet should invest so many resources into changing stealth mechanic and adjusting all the stealth related spells/traits because of it. > > > > > > Quaggan doesn't assume anything, Quaggan was talking with fishies and they told Quaggan. > > > If you're looking for a good reason, then making stuff more fun, enjoyable and less frustrating for new or inexperienced players should be enough reason to rework it. > > > > Fun and enjoyable are very subjective. I find invuls, passives, passive regens that nearly outheal AA, AI, crap load of aoe and many other things unenjoyable but i highly doubt you would give up that if it affected your main class. > > > > > @OriOri.8724 said: > > > > @Cynz.9437 said: > > > > > @Morwath.9817 said: > > > > > Ooo, and Quaggan is pretty sure, you went offtopic boyz. > > > > > > > > How dare you to assume my gender!!!? I identify myself as sneaky salad. At least in game :P > > > > > > > > On more serious note, i have yet to see one good argument why Anet should invest so many resources into changing stealth mechanic and adjusting all the stealth related spells/traits because of it. > > > > > > Because its just not implemented well in GW? That should be reason enough honestly. > > > > Different game, different mechanics. Once again, they would have to rework a lot of spells/traits and mechanics just because people have 0 map awareness. I remain by my opinion, that there are greater issues in pvp and wvw that Anet could invest into. > > This is more than just a PvP issue though. Stealth is borderline useless in PvE. Its only useful to skip mobs in dungeons (which very few people run anymore), 1 fractal, and to get HP when you are too lazy to kill the monster guarding it. Everywhere else the best use of stealth is for thieves to get +200 power when they get revealed, which shows huge design problems from a PvE perspective for stealth. > > In PvP it has huge downsides in that thief relies on stealth, yet cannot contest a point while stealthed, for good reasons. This does nothing but hamstring the entire class when the entire game mode is centered around contesting points, in every map (which is another issue entirely). > > Stealth in Gw2 is just a really bad implementation, in every game mode. So let's invest crap load of resources into reprogramming every single AI in game (because given OP's suggestion they will be able to target stealthed players otherwise thus making stealth completely useless) and every single spell/trait to make stealth somehow useful. As well as 2 classes. All this because average Joe never played thief/mes and can't read map? Really now? Thief has issues in pve not because of stealth but because Anet refuses to give them team utility and their dps is mediocre at best (compare it to rogues in wow which usually had top dps at costs of bringing 0 support to the raid). Thief is fine in pvp as long as Anet doesn't handle mobility to every class and 1000 tools to completely shut down thief (reveals + overloaded aos on short CDs). They do not have to cap points to be useful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morwath.9817 Posted December 5, 2017 Author Share Posted December 5, 2017 > @Cynz.9437 said: > So let's invest crap load of resources into reprogramming every single AI in game (because given OP's suggestion they will be able to target stealthed players otherwise thus making stealth completely useless) and every single spell/trait to make stealth somehow useful. As well as 2 classes. All this because average Joe never played thief/mes and can't read map? Really now? > Ooo? Little reminder from Quaggan: after visual nerf stealthed players still would be untargetable, as sugested already in thread. > Thief is fine in pvp as long as Anet doesn't handle mobility to every class and 1000 tools to completely shut down thief (reveals + overloaded aos on short CDs). They do not have to cap points to be useful. Wouldn't you like to have more possibilities, which such rework could provide, like better sustain, or some team support? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cynz.9437 Posted December 5, 2017 Share Posted December 5, 2017 > @Morwath.9817 said: > > @Cynz.9437 said: > > So let's invest crap load of resources into reprogramming every single AI in game (because given OP's suggestion they will be able to target stealthed players otherwise thus making stealth completely useless) and every single spell/trait to make stealth somehow useful. As well as 2 classes. All this because average Joe never played thief/mes and can't read map? Really now? > > > > Ooo? Little reminder from Quaggan: after visual nerf stealthed players still would be untargetable, as sugested already in thread. > > > Thief is fine in pvp as long as Anet doesn't handle mobility to every class and 1000 tools to completely shut down thief (reveals + overloaded aos on short CDs). They do not have to cap points to be useful. > > Wouldn't you like to have more possibilities, which such rework could provide, like better sustain, or some team support? 1. The whole point of stealth is so players can't see/target you.... might as well delete it at this point. 2. i would like to have more possibilities but played this game for many years and i know what Anet usually does as far as thief balancing goes - namely nothing besides nerfs after nerfs after nerfs until class is so underplayed that they are forced to throw some bones here and there. Also, they did try to make thief with group support and better sustain - it is called revenant. See what happened to them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morwath.9817 Posted December 5, 2017 Author Share Posted December 5, 2017 > @Cynz.9437 said: > > @Morwath.9817 said: > > > @Cynz.9437 said: > > > So let's invest crap load of resources into reprogramming every single AI in game (because given OP's suggestion they will be able to target stealthed players otherwise thus making stealth completely useless) and every single spell/trait to make stealth somehow useful. As well as 2 classes. All this because average Joe never played thief/mes and can't read map? Really now? > > > > > > > Ooo? Little reminder from Quaggan: after visual nerf stealthed players still would be untargetable, as sugested already in thread. > > > > > Thief is fine in pvp as long as Anet doesn't handle mobility to every class and 1000 tools to completely shut down thief (reveals + overloaded aos on short CDs). They do not have to cap points to be useful. > > > > Wouldn't you like to have more possibilities, which such rework could provide, like better sustain, or some team support? > > 1. The whole point of stealth is so players can't see/target you.... might as well delete it at this point. > 2. i would like to have more possibilities but played this game for many years and i know what Anet usually does as far as thief balancing goes - namely nothing besides nerfs after nerfs after nerfs until class is so underplayed that they are forced to throw some bones here and there. Also, they did try to make thief with group support and better sustain - it is called revenant. See what happened to them. 1. (...)but Quaggan still wouldn't be able to target you. 2. "Don't make any changes, because changes will lead only to worse", what kind of reasoning is this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cynz.9437 Posted December 5, 2017 Share Posted December 5, 2017 > @Morwath.9817 said: > > @Cynz.9437 said: > > > @Morwath.9817 said: > > > > @Cynz.9437 said: > > > > So let's invest crap load of resources into reprogramming every single AI in game (because given OP's suggestion they will be able to target stealthed players otherwise thus making stealth completely useless) and every single spell/trait to make stealth somehow useful. As well as 2 classes. All this because average Joe never played thief/mes and can't read map? Really now? > > > > > > > > > > Ooo? Little reminder from Quaggan: after visual nerf stealthed players still would be untargetable, as sugested already in thread. > > > > > > > Thief is fine in pvp as long as Anet doesn't handle mobility to every class and 1000 tools to completely shut down thief (reveals + overloaded aos on short CDs). They do not have to cap points to be useful. > > > > > > Wouldn't you like to have more possibilities, which such rework could provide, like better sustain, or some team support? > > > > 1. The whole point of stealth is so players can't see/target you.... might as well delete it at this point. > > 2. i would like to have more possibilities but played this game for many years and i know what Anet usually does as far as thief balancing goes - namely nothing besides nerfs after nerfs after nerfs until class is so underplayed that they are forced to throw some bones here and there. Also, they did try to make thief with group support and better sustain - it is called revenant. See what happened to them. > > 1. (...)but Quaggan still wouldn't be able to target you. > 2. "Don't make any changes, because changes will lead only to worse", what kind of reasoning is this? 1. But seeing stealthed player makes stealth pointless. That is like block that doesn't block. 2. Reasoning of the played that played this game for too long and knows what kind of balance you can expect from Anet. Just look at THIS https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/252419/#Comment_252419 . This post was made while EM was introduced to game and remained untouched. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MyPuppy.8970 Posted December 5, 2017 Share Posted December 5, 2017 What if a stealthed player could only move at 33%-50% normal speed? The thing that makes stealth so powerful is combining it with superior mobility + teleports when other plebs are just sitting ducks or running around aimlessly. Giving stealth mobility+teleport+high spike damage+spammable hard cc is like giving a condi spec more aoe instacast condies+aoe boon corrupt+self aoe condies. Oh, wait... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morwath.9817 Posted December 5, 2017 Author Share Posted December 5, 2017 > @MyPuppy.8970 said: > What if a stealthed player could only move at 33%-50% normal speed? The thing that makes stealth so powerful is combining it with superior mobility + teleports when other plebs are just sitting ducks or running around aimlessly. Giving stealth mobility+teleport+high spike damage+spammable hard cc is like giving a condi spec more aoe instacast condies+aoe boon corrupt+self aoe condies. Oh, wait... Quaggan would like to remind that few professions have access to stealth and not every of them is Thief. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MyPuppy.8970 Posted December 5, 2017 Share Posted December 5, 2017 > @Morwath.9817 said: > > @MyPuppy.8970 said: > > What if a stealthed player could only move at 33%-50% normal speed? The thing that makes stealth so powerful is combining it with superior mobility + teleports when other plebs are just sitting ducks or running around aimlessly. Giving stealth mobility+teleport+high spike damage+spammable hard cc is like giving a condi spec more aoe instacast condies+aoe boon corrupt+self aoe condies. Oh, wait... > > Quaggan would like to remind that few professions have access to stealth and not every of them is Thief. Oh I was thinking about mesmer as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morwath.9817 Posted December 5, 2017 Author Share Posted December 5, 2017 > @MyPuppy.8970 said: > > @Morwath.9817 said: > > > @MyPuppy.8970 said: > > > What if a stealthed player could only move at 33%-50% normal speed? The thing that makes stealth so powerful is combining it with superior mobility + teleports when other plebs are just sitting ducks or running around aimlessly. Giving stealth mobility+teleport+high spike damage+spammable hard cc is like giving a condi spec more aoe instacast condies+aoe boon corrupt+self aoe condies. Oh, wait... > > > > Quaggan would like to remind that few professions have access to stealth and not every of them is Thief. > > Oh I was thinking about mesmer as well. Ooo, and Quaggan was thinking about Ranger and Engi. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeceiverX.8361 Posted December 6, 2017 Share Posted December 6, 2017 > @apharma.3741 said: > > @Philelectric.3769 said: > > > @Morwath.9817 said: > > > > > Quaggan thinks you've never played Ranger, because otherwise you would know that if Rapid Fire or Point Blank have no target you can side step and they will... miss, thats because they are firing in straight line like Bristlebacks in PvE. Try to shoot those with disabled auto targeting (just to imagine target is stealthed) while "aiming" without target at moving mob at higher distance and watch your arrows hit air... > > > > > > > > > > > > > The more you post,the more you look like a fool. I sometimes play ranger and I main thief. You 100% never played thief. Go try it and see how mesmer GS autos and how rapid fire is surprisingly good even if you see it shoot in a line, you still hit the stealthed player. Asking for a change to a fine aspect of a game is more likely cause by a problem with your ingame capabilities also known as l2p issue. Ive listed all an overview of the easy tools every classes have and I gave you explanations on why ranger can still deal damage to stealthed players and yet you rufuse to see the truth. When you cant see the truth and even have to RP a quaggan because you are too shy to admit the l2p issue as a human being, you show everyone how meaningless most of your post on the forums are. Unless you admit you have a l2p issue, I see no points in showing you the truth over and over again. To every arguments you will lie, you can refer to my previous post. Thank you,have a great time and you can always improve. > > I think it is you with the L2P issue if you think a mesmer can use a GS auto on a stealthed opponent. I mean sure if you start the attack before the stealth it keeps going for the whole channel but are we really at a point of complaining at the pitiful damage it does compared to denying the use of 3 of the weapon skills on the GS? > > Whether it’s stealth camping mesmer, thief, scrapper, druid or some other future elite spec, he still has a point where entire weapon sets are shut down by stealth because you do not have a target and no scoping into thin air is just hilarious. If you play with action camera all projectile weapons are free aim and can shoot invisible players even without targeting them because the action camera will register it as being in the right place and subsequently land the attack, and these attacks have substantial hitboxes and tracking still as though the player was revealed/visible. This is why I said the suggestion to make players visible while stealthed only would work in purely tab-targeted games; this game's base cleave + action camera projectile use would quite literally negate the entire purpose of stealth as well as provide a massive advantage/disadvantage to players just based on how they prefer camera settings. While already an advantage, in most cases it's pretty easy to overlook since you have to already know where the stealthed target is to land the attack. In the case where there is no true invisibility, there is then no difference to them being stealthed or not. And there's no reasonable justification to remove action camera. Stealth needs a rework by not being spammable and safe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apharma.3741 Posted December 6, 2017 Share Posted December 6, 2017 > @DeceiverX.8361 said: > > @apharma.3741 said: > > > @Philelectric.3769 said: > > > > @Morwath.9817 said: > > > > > > > Quaggan thinks you've never played Ranger, because otherwise you would know that if Rapid Fire or Point Blank have no target you can side step and they will... miss, thats because they are firing in straight line like Bristlebacks in PvE. Try to shoot those with disabled auto targeting (just to imagine target is stealthed) while "aiming" without target at moving mob at higher distance and watch your arrows hit air... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The more you post,the more you look like a fool. I sometimes play ranger and I main thief. You 100% never played thief. Go try it and see how mesmer GS autos and how rapid fire is surprisingly good even if you see it shoot in a line, you still hit the stealthed player. Asking for a change to a fine aspect of a game is more likely cause by a problem with your ingame capabilities also known as l2p issue. Ive listed all an overview of the easy tools every classes have and I gave you explanations on why ranger can still deal damage to stealthed players and yet you rufuse to see the truth. When you cant see the truth and even have to RP a quaggan because you are too shy to admit the l2p issue as a human being, you show everyone how meaningless most of your post on the forums are. Unless you admit you have a l2p issue, I see no points in showing you the truth over and over again. To every arguments you will lie, you can refer to my previous post. Thank you,have a great time and you can always improve. > > > > I think it is you with the L2P issue if you think a mesmer can use a GS auto on a stealthed opponent. I mean sure if you start the attack before the stealth it keeps going for the whole channel but are we really at a point of complaining at the pitiful damage it does compared to denying the use of 3 of the weapon skills on the GS? > > > > Whether it’s stealth camping mesmer, thief, scrapper, druid or some other future elite spec, he still has a point where entire weapon sets are shut down by stealth because you do not have a target and no scoping into thin air is just hilarious. > > If you play with action camera all projectile weapons are free aim and can shoot invisible players even without targeting them because the action camera will register it as being in the right place and subsequently land the attack, and these attacks have substantial hitboxes and tracking still as though the player was revealed/visible. > > This is why I said the suggestion to make players visible while stealthed only would work in purely tab-targeted games; this game's base cleave + action camera projectile use would quite literally negate the entire purpose of stealth as well as provide a massive advantage/disadvantage to players just based on how they prefer camera settings. While already an advantage, in most cases it's pretty easy to overlook since you have to already know where the stealthed target is to land the attack. In the case where there is no true invisibility, there is then no difference to them being stealthed or not. > > And there's no reasonable justification to remove action camera. **Stealth needs a rework by not being spammable and safe.** Agreed with bold and didn’t really know about the action camera as I don’t ever use it though I don’t agree with the OP of making stealth so you can see but not target the enemy. Stealth however does need a rework and I think OriOri highlighted some excellent reasons for it in a variety of game modes. However it still doesn’t change what I said in the response you quoted which was to a guy that seemed to think stealth didn’t shut down weapon skills like mesmer GS auto. It’s also lunacy to even attempt a no scope without knowing the precise location of the enemy or with a valuable skill and after the initial leap through a smoke field or blast it’s a big risk to no scope without a big or moderate sized AoE. It is perhaps worth discussing different camera and in options settings in another thread though as there’s a multitude of options which vastly affect these interactions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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