GrubySzymek.1362 Posted December 6, 2017 Share Posted December 6, 2017 Challenging is subjective term without any explanation of how anet understands it :) For some people leaving queensdale can be challenging but I don't think raids are made for them :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blood Red Arachnid.2493 Posted December 6, 2017 Share Posted December 6, 2017 The short answer to all this is that people are getting better at the game. Including the developers. So, their standards for designing content is sliding forward on the difficulty scale to placate the large number of players who have gotten good at the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zealex.9410 Posted December 7, 2017 Share Posted December 7, 2017 > @"Lord of the Fire.6870" said: > > @FrostDraco.8306 said: > > > @Sigmoid.7082 said: > > > > @Kheldorn.5123 said: > > > > > @Raguel.9402 said: > > > > > If you can’t handle T4, run T3, if you can’t handle T3, run T2 and so on. > > > > > > > > > > It’s like complaining about a hard mode being too uhm „hard”? > > > > > > > > T4s are not hardmode, CMs are. Fractals were promised to be our substitue of dungeon level difficulty :) > > > > > > Could you point me to where they said this or made this promise? > > > > He can't. Because he's lying. > > Cm were made for people which T4 aren't hard enough for. In general fractal were designed for more causal players by making them shorter then dungeons. > The Tier levels were made to emulate the story/normal/ hard mode from GW 1 and also giving players a progression system in the fractals. Go back and read dev comments on what dungeons were supposed to be. And then come back and tell me that t4s should be casual friendly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maddoctor.2738 Posted December 7, 2017 Share Posted December 7, 2017 > @Astralporing.1957 said: > > @FrostDraco.8306 said: > > > @Kheldorn.5123 said: > > > Challenging is subjective term without any explanation of how anet understands it :) > > > > > > For some people leaving queensdale can be challenging but I don't think raids are made for them :) > > > > >complains about a subjective definition. > > >uses a subjective argument > > > > We know what anet considers challenging, which is raids in their current form. Get rekt. > The same quotes mentioned before considered dungeon story mode opponents to be "fearsome". And explorable mode is "even more" challenging than that, which implies Anet considers story mode to be challenging. > Just saying. > Yes because Dungeons in GW2 were supposed to be content for those who loved Raids in other MMORPGs. But they failed miserably in that regard, now they have Raids for those players and Fractals T4 are turning into the challenging content they should've always been for 5 players. Challenging content for 5 players is equally important with challenging content for 10 players. The 10-man is the ultimate challenge, the 5-man is just challenge. Both are needed. I still don't understand the issue. Increasing the difficulty of T4 fractals makes the content what it should've always been, a challenge, while at the same time makes the rest of the difficulty tiers useful for something. We all know that T3 is a wasteland, and even T2 gets way too few people, by making T4 harder, T3 and T2 can become more populated by those who can't run the T4s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maddoctor.2738 Posted December 7, 2017 Share Posted December 7, 2017 > @Kheldorn.5123 said: > > @FrostDraco.8306 said: > > > @Kheldorn.5123 said: > > > Challenging is subjective term without any explanation of how anet understands it :) > > > > > > For some people leaving queensdale can be challenging but I don't think raids are made for them :) > > > > >complains about a subjective definition. > > >uses a subjective argument > > > > We know what anet considers challenging, which is raids in their current form. Get rekt. > > But mad mentioned that dungeons are challenging content, I am now confused. Even you don't know what anet considers challenging and on what basis :) You do know that the text for dungeons was written on release day right? A time when Anet genuinely believed that their dungeons were the equivalent to Raids in other mmorpgs. You shouldn't be confused, you said > T4s are supposed to be a bit higher yet still casual dungeon-like experience for people not interested in raiding mess I'm still waiting for your link that proves T4s are supposed to be casual dungeon-like experience and not challenging content. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrubySzymek.1362 Posted December 7, 2017 Share Posted December 7, 2017 > @maddoctor.2738 said: > > @Kheldorn.5123 said: > > > @FrostDraco.8306 said: > > > > @Kheldorn.5123 said: > > > > Challenging is subjective term without any explanation of how anet understands it :) > > > > > > > > For some people leaving queensdale can be challenging but I don't think raids are made for them :) > > > > > > >complains about a subjective definition. > > > >uses a subjective argument > > > > > > We know what anet considers challenging, which is raids in their current form. Get rekt. > > > > But mad mentioned that dungeons are challenging content, I am now confused. Even you don't know what anet considers challenging and on what basis :) > > You do know that the text for dungeons was written on release day right? A time when Anet genuinely believed that their dungeons were the equivalent to Raids in other mmorpgs. You shouldn't be confused, you said > > T4s are supposed to be a bit higher yet still casual dungeon-like experience for people not interested in raiding mess > I'm still waiting for your link that proves T4s are supposed to be casual dungeon-like experience and not challenging content. But this text is still there and you used it as a "proof" :) I have yet to see a text saying that T4s are supposed to become raids 2.0 for 5 man :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maddoctor.2738 Posted December 7, 2017 Share Posted December 7, 2017 > @Kheldorn.5123 said: > I have yet to see a text saying that T4s are supposed to become raids 2.0 for 5 man :) The text is the same in the Heart of Thorns website, which means their intent didn't change between game release and expansion release. Only now they go back to it, finally, and make them what they used to be before Heart of Thorns. Before the power creep of elite specs and before the "fix" to 50+ levels. I gave you all the proof you needed that Fractals are supposed to be challenging and not casual dungeon-like experiences as you call them. Edit And "T4s", before Heart of Thorns were much much harder than any T4 we got now. Ever done 99 before Heart of Thorns? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sigur.9453 Posted December 7, 2017 Share Posted December 7, 2017 > @Kheldorn.5123 said: > > @maddoctor.2738 said: > > > @Kheldorn.5123 said: > > > > @FrostDraco.8306 said: > > > > > @Kheldorn.5123 said: > > > > > Challenging is subjective term without any explanation of how anet understands it :) > > > > > > > > > > For some people leaving queensdale can be challenging but I don't think raids are made for them :) > > > > > > > > >complains about a subjective definition. > > > > >uses a subjective argument > > > > > > > > We know what anet considers challenging, which is raids in their current form. Get rekt. > > > > > > But mad mentioned that dungeons are challenging content, I am now confused. Even you don't know what anet considers challenging and on what basis :) > > > > You do know that the text for dungeons was written on release day right? A time when Anet genuinely believed that their dungeons were the equivalent to Raids in other mmorpgs. You shouldn't be confused, you said > > > T4s are supposed to be a bit higher yet still casual dungeon-like experience for people not interested in raiding mess > > I'm still waiting for your link that proves T4s are supposed to be casual dungeon-like experience and not challenging content. > > But this text is still there and you used it as a "proof" :) > > I have yet to see a text saying that T4s are supposed to become raids 2.0 for 5 man :) well,they where challenging at this point, but with the new elite specs they became super easy. and again i will ask you : What is raid 2.0? you are dodging this question for a while now. Also: what whould you like to change? how? why? All you are saying is : fractals sucks, please fix. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrubySzymek.1362 Posted December 7, 2017 Share Posted December 7, 2017 > @sigur.9453 said: > > @Kheldorn.5123 said: > > > @maddoctor.2738 said: > > > > @Kheldorn.5123 said: > > > > > @FrostDraco.8306 said: > > > > > > @Kheldorn.5123 said: > > > > > > Challenging is subjective term without any explanation of how anet understands it :) > > > > > > > > > > > > For some people leaving queensdale can be challenging but I don't think raids are made for them :) > > > > > > > > > > >complains about a subjective definition. > > > > > >uses a subjective argument > > > > > > > > > > We know what anet considers challenging, which is raids in their current form. Get rekt. > > > > > > > > But mad mentioned that dungeons are challenging content, I am now confused. Even you don't know what anet considers challenging and on what basis :) > > > > > > You do know that the text for dungeons was written on release day right? A time when Anet genuinely believed that their dungeons were the equivalent to Raids in other mmorpgs. You shouldn't be confused, you said > > > > T4s are supposed to be a bit higher yet still casual dungeon-like experience for people not interested in raiding mess > > > I'm still waiting for your link that proves T4s are supposed to be casual dungeon-like experience and not challenging content. > > > > But this text is still there and you used it as a "proof" :) > > > > I have yet to see a text saying that T4s are supposed to become raids 2.0 for 5 man :) > > well,they where challenging at this point, but with the new elite specs they became super easy. > and again i will ask you : > What is raid 2.0? you are dodging this question for a while now. > Also: what whould you like to change? how? why? > All you are saying is : > fractals sucks, please fix. I already explained in multiple posts what I mean. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sigur.9453 Posted December 7, 2017 Share Posted December 7, 2017 > @Kheldorn.5123 said: > > @sigur.9453 said: > > > @Kheldorn.5123 said: > > > > @maddoctor.2738 said: > > > > > @Kheldorn.5123 said: > > > > > > @FrostDraco.8306 said: > > > > > > > @Kheldorn.5123 said: > > > > > > > Challenging is subjective term without any explanation of how anet understands it :) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For some people leaving queensdale can be challenging but I don't think raids are made for them :) > > > > > > > > > > > > >complains about a subjective definition. > > > > > > >uses a subjective argument > > > > > > > > > > > > We know what anet considers challenging, which is raids in their current form. Get rekt. > > > > > > > > > > But mad mentioned that dungeons are challenging content, I am now confused. Even you don't know what anet considers challenging and on what basis :) > > > > > > > > You do know that the text for dungeons was written on release day right? A time when Anet genuinely believed that their dungeons were the equivalent to Raids in other mmorpgs. You shouldn't be confused, you said > > > > > T4s are supposed to be a bit higher yet still casual dungeon-like experience for people not interested in raiding mess > > > > I'm still waiting for your link that proves T4s are supposed to be casual dungeon-like experience and not challenging content. > > > > > > But this text is still there and you used it as a "proof" :) > > > > > > I have yet to see a text saying that T4s are supposed to become raids 2.0 for 5 man :) > > > > well,they where challenging at this point, but with the new elite specs they became super easy. > > and again i will ask you : > > What is raid 2.0? you are dodging this question for a while now. > > Also: what whould you like to change? how? why? > > All you are saying is : > > fractals sucks, please fix. > > I already explained in multiple posts what I mean. do you expect everyone to go through your nearly 1000 (respect!) comments? since you copy&paste your agenda in every raid/fractal related thread, it shouldn´t be a problem to give us who are not following your posts on a regular basis a little summary? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feanor.2358 Posted December 7, 2017 Share Posted December 7, 2017 > @sigur.9453 said: > > @Kheldorn.5123 said: > > > @sigur.9453 said: > > > > @Kheldorn.5123 said: > > > > > @maddoctor.2738 said: > > > > > > @Kheldorn.5123 said: > > > > > > > @FrostDraco.8306 said: > > > > > > > > @Kheldorn.5123 said: > > > > > > > > Challenging is subjective term without any explanation of how anet understands it :) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For some people leaving queensdale can be challenging but I don't think raids are made for them :) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >complains about a subjective definition. > > > > > > > >uses a subjective argument > > > > > > > > > > > > > > We know what anet considers challenging, which is raids in their current form. Get rekt. > > > > > > > > > > > > But mad mentioned that dungeons are challenging content, I am now confused. Even you don't know what anet considers challenging and on what basis :) > > > > > > > > > > You do know that the text for dungeons was written on release day right? A time when Anet genuinely believed that their dungeons were the equivalent to Raids in other mmorpgs. You shouldn't be confused, you said > > > > > > T4s are supposed to be a bit higher yet still casual dungeon-like experience for people not interested in raiding mess > > > > > I'm still waiting for your link that proves T4s are supposed to be casual dungeon-like experience and not challenging content. > > > > > > > > But this text is still there and you used it as a "proof" :) > > > > > > > > I have yet to see a text saying that T4s are supposed to become raids 2.0 for 5 man :) > > > > > > well,they where challenging at this point, but with the new elite specs they became super easy. > > > and again i will ask you : > > > What is raid 2.0? you are dodging this question for a while now. > > > Also: what whould you like to change? how? why? > > > All you are saying is : > > > fractals sucks, please fix. > > > > I already explained in multiple posts what I mean. > > do you expect everyone to go through your nearly 1000 (respect!) comments? > since you copy&paste your agenda in every raid/fractal related thread, it shouldn´t be a problem to give us who are not following your posts on a regular basis a little summary? > Let me do this: "Everything that's not in my comfort zone is raids and therefore should not exist because I want rewards". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrubySzymek.1362 Posted December 7, 2017 Share Posted December 7, 2017 > @sigur.9453 said: > > @Kheldorn.5123 said: > > > @sigur.9453 said: > > > > @Kheldorn.5123 said: > > > > > @maddoctor.2738 said: > > > > > > @Kheldorn.5123 said: > > > > > > > @FrostDraco.8306 said: > > > > > > > > @Kheldorn.5123 said: > > > > > > > > Challenging is subjective term without any explanation of how anet understands it :) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For some people leaving queensdale can be challenging but I don't think raids are made for them :) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >complains about a subjective definition. > > > > > > > >uses a subjective argument > > > > > > > > > > > > > > We know what anet considers challenging, which is raids in their current form. Get rekt. > > > > > > > > > > > > But mad mentioned that dungeons are challenging content, I am now confused. Even you don't know what anet considers challenging and on what basis :) > > > > > > > > > > You do know that the text for dungeons was written on release day right? A time when Anet genuinely believed that their dungeons were the equivalent to Raids in other mmorpgs. You shouldn't be confused, you said > > > > > > T4s are supposed to be a bit higher yet still casual dungeon-like experience for people not interested in raiding mess > > > > > I'm still waiting for your link that proves T4s are supposed to be casual dungeon-like experience and not challenging content. > > > > > > > > But this text is still there and you used it as a "proof" :) > > > > > > > > I have yet to see a text saying that T4s are supposed to become raids 2.0 for 5 man :) > > > > > > well,they where challenging at this point, but with the new elite specs they became super easy. > > > and again i will ask you : > > > What is raid 2.0? you are dodging this question for a while now. > > > Also: what whould you like to change? how? why? > > > All you are saying is : > > > fractals sucks, please fix. > > > > I already explained in multiple posts what I mean. > > do you expect everyone to go through your nearly 1000 (respect!) comments? Yes :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miellyn.6847 Posted December 7, 2017 Share Posted December 7, 2017 > @Kheldorn.5123 said: > > @sigur.9453 said: > > > @Kheldorn.5123 said: > > > > @maddoctor.2738 said: > > > > > @Kheldorn.5123 said: > > > > > > @FrostDraco.8306 said: > > > > > > > @Kheldorn.5123 said: > > > > > > > Challenging is subjective term without any explanation of how anet understands it :) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For some people leaving queensdale can be challenging but I don't think raids are made for them :) > > > > > > > > > > > > >complains about a subjective definition. > > > > > > >uses a subjective argument > > > > > > > > > > > > We know what anet considers challenging, which is raids in their current form. Get rekt. > > > > > > > > > > But mad mentioned that dungeons are challenging content, I am now confused. Even you don't know what anet considers challenging and on what basis :) > > > > > > > > You do know that the text for dungeons was written on release day right? A time when Anet genuinely believed that their dungeons were the equivalent to Raids in other mmorpgs. You shouldn't be confused, you said > > > > > T4s are supposed to be a bit higher yet still casual dungeon-like experience for people not interested in raiding mess > > > > I'm still waiting for your link that proves T4s are supposed to be casual dungeon-like experience and not challenging content. > > > > > > But this text is still there and you used it as a "proof" :) > > > > > > I have yet to see a text saying that T4s are supposed to become raids 2.0 for 5 man :) > > > > well,they where challenging at this point, but with the new elite specs they became super easy. > > and again i will ask you : > > What is raid 2.0? you are dodging this question for a while now. > > Also: what whould you like to change? how? why? > > All you are saying is : > > fractals sucks, please fix. > > I already explained in multiple posts what I mean. You could also tell us where fractals emulate raid mechanics. You just always state they do and yet fail to bring any proof or example for this statement. Feelings are no proof. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zealex.9410 Posted December 7, 2017 Share Posted December 7, 2017 > @Feanor.2358 said: > > @sigur.9453 said: > > > @Kheldorn.5123 said: > > > > @sigur.9453 said: > > > > > @Kheldorn.5123 said: > > > > > > @maddoctor.2738 said: > > > > > > > @Kheldorn.5123 said: > > > > > > > > @FrostDraco.8306 said: > > > > > > > > > @Kheldorn.5123 said: > > > > > > > > > Challenging is subjective term without any explanation of how anet understands it :) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For some people leaving queensdale can be challenging but I don't think raids are made for them :) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >complains about a subjective definition. > > > > > > > > >uses a subjective argument > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > We know what anet considers challenging, which is raids in their current form. Get rekt. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But mad mentioned that dungeons are challenging content, I am now confused. Even you don't know what anet considers challenging and on what basis :) > > > > > > > > > > > > You do know that the text for dungeons was written on release day right? A time when Anet genuinely believed that their dungeons were the equivalent to Raids in other mmorpgs. You shouldn't be confused, you said > > > > > > > T4s are supposed to be a bit higher yet still casual dungeon-like experience for people not interested in raiding mess > > > > > > I'm still waiting for your link that proves T4s are supposed to be casual dungeon-like experience and not challenging content. > > > > > > > > > > But this text is still there and you used it as a "proof" :) > > > > > > > > > > I have yet to see a text saying that T4s are supposed to become raids 2.0 for 5 man :) > > > > > > > > well,they where challenging at this point, but with the new elite specs they became super easy. > > > > and again i will ask you : > > > > What is raid 2.0? you are dodging this question for a while now. > > > > Also: what whould you like to change? how? why? > > > > All you are saying is : > > > > fractals sucks, please fix. > > > > > > I already explained in multiple posts what I mean. > > > > do you expect everyone to go through your nearly 1000 (respect!) comments? > > since you copy&paste your agenda in every raid/fractal related thread, it shouldn´t be a problem to give us who are not following your posts on a regular basis a little summary? > > > > Let me do this: > > "Everything that's not in my comfort zone is raids and therefore should not exist because I want rewards". If so Pof had at least 1 raid on launch. Namely the Gordon Ramsey Mastery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrostDraco.8306 Posted December 7, 2017 Share Posted December 7, 2017 > @Kheldorn.5123 said: > > @sigur.9453 said: > > > @Kheldorn.5123 said: > > > > @maddoctor.2738 said: > > > > > @Kheldorn.5123 said: > > > > > > @FrostDraco.8306 said: > > > > > > > @Kheldorn.5123 said: > > > > > > > Challenging is subjective term without any explanation of how anet understands it :) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For some people leaving queensdale can be challenging but I don't think raids are made for them :) > > > > > > > > > > > > >complains about a subjective definition. > > > > > > >uses a subjective argument > > > > > > > > > > > > We know what anet considers challenging, which is raids in their current form. Get rekt. > > > > > > > > > > But mad mentioned that dungeons are challenging content, I am now confused. Even you don't know what anet considers challenging and on what basis :) > > > > > > > > You do know that the text for dungeons was written on release day right? A time when Anet genuinely believed that their dungeons were the equivalent to Raids in other mmorpgs. You shouldn't be confused, you said > > > > > T4s are supposed to be a bit higher yet still casual dungeon-like experience for people not interested in raiding mess > > > > I'm still waiting for your link that proves T4s are supposed to be casual dungeon-like experience and not challenging content. > > > > > > But this text is still there and you used it as a "proof" :) > > > > > > I have yet to see a text saying that T4s are supposed to become raids 2.0 for 5 man :) > > > > well,they where challenging at this point, but with the new elite specs they became super easy. > > and again i will ask you : > > What is raid 2.0? you are dodging this question for a while now. > > Also: what whould you like to change? how? why? > > All you are saying is : > > fractals sucks, please fix. > > I already explained in multiple posts what I mean. Then explain it again. Link or copy/paste if you have to. This is just lazy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyper Cutter.9376 Posted December 8, 2017 Share Posted December 8, 2017 > @"maddoctor.2738" said: > I still don't understand the issue. Increasing the difficulty of T4 fractals makes the content what it should've always been, a challenge, while at the same time makes the rest of the difficulty tiers useful for something. We all know that T3 is a wasteland, and even T2 gets way too few people, by making T4 harder, T3 and T2 can become more populated by those who can't run the T4s. The lower tiers will always be a wasteland as long as you can get their rewards for free from doing the higher ones, incentivizing players to _only_ do the highest tier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maddoctor.2738 Posted December 8, 2017 Share Posted December 8, 2017 > @"Hyper Cutter.9376" said: > > @"maddoctor.2738" said: > > I still don't understand the issue. Increasing the difficulty of T4 fractals makes the content what it should've always been, a challenge, while at the same time makes the rest of the difficulty tiers useful for something. We all know that T3 is a wasteland, and even T2 gets way too few people, by making T4 harder, T3 and T2 can become more populated by those who can't run the T4s. > The lower tiers will always be a wasteland as long as you can get their rewards for free from doing the higher ones, incentivizing players to _only_ do the highest tier. I don't think changing how the reward work and demanding completion of tiers individually would be a very good idea and it won't help as an incentive. If they did that, you'd run T4 with a group, then run the lower tiers with the same group. After all if you can beat T4, you can beat the lower tiers too and there is no reason to try to get a different team for the lower tiers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jahroots.6791 Posted December 8, 2017 Share Posted December 8, 2017 Raising the skill floor just pushes people out of fractals altogether, rather than onto lower tiers. What _should_ have happened is that the increased difficulty was accompanied by added rewards, especially since they're so dependent on RNG. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feanor.2358 Posted December 8, 2017 Share Posted December 8, 2017 > @"Jahroots.6791" said: > Raising the skill floor just pushes people out of fractals altogether, rather than onto lower tiers. > > What _should_ have happened is that the increased difficulty was accompanied by added rewards, especially since they're so dependent on RNG. It actually is. When you play the increased difficulty, you get extra rewards. This is also known and "fractal CM". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyninja.2954 Posted December 8, 2017 Share Posted December 8, 2017 > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > Challenging is subjective term without any explanation of how anet understands it :) > > For some people leaving queensdale can be challenging but I don't think raids are made for them :) What? It is quite evident what arenanets stance is on this. They have been increasing difficulty to offset powercreep. > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > @maddoctor.2738 said: > > > @Kheldorn.5123 said: > > > > @FrostDraco.8306 said: > > > > > @Kheldorn.5123 said: > > > > > Challenging is subjective term without any explanation of how anet understands it :) > > > > > > > > > > For some people leaving queensdale can be challenging but I don't think raids are made for them :) > > > > > > > > >complains about a subjective definition. > > > > >uses a subjective argument > > > > > > > > We know what anet considers challenging, which is raids in their current form. Get rekt. > > > > > > But mad mentioned that dungeons are challenging content, I am now confused. Even you don't know what anet considers challenging and on what basis :) > > > > You do know that the text for dungeons was written on release day right? A time when Anet genuinely believed that their dungeons were the equivalent to Raids in other mmorpgs. You shouldn't be confused, you said > > > T4s are supposed to be a bit higher yet still casual dungeon-like experience for people not interested in raiding mess > > I'm still waiting for your link that proves T4s are supposed to be casual dungeon-like experience and not challenging content. > > But this text is still there and you used it as a "proof" :) > > I have yet to see a text saying that T4s are supposed to become raids 2.0 for 5 man :) You have not shown that fractals are raid 2.0 content. As a matter of fact, all you have been doing is repeating on a loop your subjective view on what you think fractals are without any type of source or backing. On this very page someone already posted arenanets official words on high tier fractals being designed as challenging content. You can debate if they are successful in hitting that metric or not, but your argument that high tier fractals should be for everyone is moot. Your assessment that fractals have become raids 2.0 is even less founded considering you have 0 metrics on how many players complete them or you being skilled enough to judge this content. As such this statement is merely, as mentioned, a subjective opinion by someone from the outside. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyninja.2954 Posted December 8, 2017 Share Posted December 8, 2017 > @"Jahroots.6791" said: > Raising the skill floor just pushes people out of fractals altogether, rather than onto lower tiers. > > What _should_ have happened is that the increased difficulty was accompanied by added rewards, especially since they're so dependent on RNG. There is only so much increased loot reward this game can take. Look at the results of PoF and LWS4 Map 1. The economy is at an all time low. Increasing constant rewards is not an option for mid- or long-term success. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jahroots.6791 Posted December 8, 2017 Share Posted December 8, 2017 True, but I wasn't thinking in terms of gold only. There are many account-bound options as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyninja.2954 Posted December 8, 2017 Share Posted December 8, 2017 > @"Jahroots.6791" said: > True, but I wasn't thinking in terms of gold only. There are many account-bound options as well. True that would work, but then we are entering the domain of people complaining that to many items are account bound and take to long (see ge2 legendarys, see Charged Quartz Crystal, see daily/weekly lockouts, etc.). It also doesn't change the fact the fractal T4s have become way to easy with 2 expansions worth of power creep. What about expansion 3? Do we just increase the rewards again? It's best to keep difficulty at a similar level (and no current CMs are not harder than original fractal 50 as example) but this needs consistent management. Not half or a full year in between re-balance patches during which players can get accustomed to essentially free loot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxwelgm.4315 Posted December 8, 2017 Share Posted December 8, 2017 As with all the other threads about this currently going on, I don't think you're quite worried about the challenge present in content, because T2 and T3 are the "perfect" state of average difficulty AND have a large playerbase so you would be playing there otherwise (and if T2 and T3 are too hard, T1 has plenty of players also). The real problem, I think, is you want T4 rewards for some reason. The question is, why? Fractals are so well polished and designed that you can accumulate currency to buy everything you want from T3 alone. With the exception of the CM rewards (that I'd risk saying are not as well designed as Golden weapons which are available for you with regular currency), you can get everything from Fractals from doing daily T3's and even T2's. The complaint is somewhat more understandable in raids, that not only have legendary skins but plenty of amazing stuff that is Black Lion level (props to the art team working there). But still, you can get plenty of stuff elsewhere in the game. And if you want to talk about inaccessible content, just go and try getting a Sublime Mistforged Triumphant Hero armor (lol this name) from WvW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rennie.6750 Posted December 8, 2017 Share Posted December 8, 2017 One thing is sure, increased difficulty doesn't work well for the average LFG parties. As I have no interest in joining a pve guild, the day the average t4 party can't complete dailies within a more than reasonable 45-60 mins time frame is the day I stop doing fractals, unless the rewards are substantially improved. That's not a threat or anything, it's a fact. I won't go down tiers to earn trash rewards, I won't beg or buy my way, I won't "get better", this isn't about me, it's about what the average LFG player can do without wiping, as I have litte interest in slowly going through some daily routine content. At some point with enough practice, anything becomes easy in your eyes so the challenge part is a moot point. I don't even see how it's relevant to this discussion given how subjective this is. Look. This game is insanely grindy. More than some pay to win asian games i've played in the past in a lot of aspects. There are just too many absurdly slow progression paths all over the place, and fractals are just a part of that. If the devs start designing them around people who only play fractals then there's no point for me in playing that anymore. IMO the increased duration for the daily grind with mediocre rewards is an issue that is often overlooked, but it's a serious issue for a lot of people. When I say that asian pay to win games had better drop rates for BiS gear this isn't a joke, I do recall having more than one good drop a week playing the same kind of content, and 12g per day for 1h-1h30 (with recs) of play is already a pittance, there's no need to make things worse because of some delusional narrative that somehow, challenges are everlasting, not relative, do not disappear with enough practice and that it should only escalate in spite of player turnover. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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