Shiyo.3578 Posted December 10, 2017 Share Posted December 10, 2017 > @"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said: > > @Kheldorn.5123 said: > > I hope Anet stops listening to loud minority and start thinking about playerbase as a whole. We are the core of the game, not raiders. > > Raids & fractals (especially t4) are intended to be challenging group content. The intended audience is a minority of the playerbase. The core of the game is designed to appeal to the majority of players (how well ANet succeeded in this can be debated, of course); fractals & raids don't need to be designed for everyone. They do when they're 2/3 of content updates. Fractals also USED to be designed for everyone, now they're not. I don't find them hard, I'm not a bad player, but I know from experience this games player base cannot handle harder content and shoving harder content into the game is only going to cause gigantic issues for this game. You don't make a super casual game then 4 years later randomly decide to start only making harder and harder content, you've already gotten a player base you created for 4 years that are used to braindead easy content, they are NOT going to be happy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STIHL.2489 Posted December 10, 2017 Share Posted December 10, 2017 > @"Shiyo.3578" said: > > @"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said: > > > @Kheldorn.5123 said: > > > I hope Anet stops listening to loud minority and start thinking about playerbase as a whole. We are the core of the game, not raiders. > > > > Raids & fractals (especially t4) are intended to be challenging group content. The intended audience is a minority of the playerbase. The core of the game is designed to appeal to the majority of players (how well ANet succeeded in this can be debated, of course); fractals & raids don't need to be designed for everyone. > > They do when they're 2/3 of content updates. > > Fractals also USED to be designed for everyone, now they're not. I don't find them hard, I'm not a bad player, but I know from experience this games player base cannot handle harder content and shoving harder content into the game is only going to cause gigantic issues for this game. > > Y**ou don't make a super casual game then 4 years later randomly decide to start only making harder and harder content**, you've already gotten a player base you created for 4 years that are used to braindead easy content, they are NOT going to be happy. Apparently that is exactly what Anet plans to do. The only thing you have control over at this point, is how you react to it. Do you accept it and keep playing Do you hate it and keep playing now bitter and angry Do you hate it and stat looking for a new game. Or maybe pick some other path.. but things are what they are.. this is how Anet is rolling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mourningcry.9428 Posted December 10, 2017 Share Posted December 10, 2017 Fractals are more casual friendly now than they ever were.... Just compare to the original and second revamps of Fotm - remember 3 maps (ok, swamp +2) and a boss? There was a reason why selling Frac 50 was so profitable.... And that's just the time commitment... not even talking about the equipment investment or the higher skill floor... The issue is Anet made it sooooo casual friendly that any deviation from the mindlessness that the system has become is unbearable/unthinkable by many new to the content that never knew it before. Quite frankly, one could skip 66% of the daily and get better rewards in less time than previous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Illconceived Was Na.9781 Posted December 10, 2017 Share Posted December 10, 2017 > @"Shiyo.3578" said: > > @"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said: > > > @Kheldorn.5123 said: > > > I hope Anet stops listening to loud minority and start thinking about playerbase as a whole. We are the core of the game, not raiders. > > > > Raids & fractals (especially t4) are intended to be challenging group content. The intended audience is a minority of the playerbase. The core of the game is designed to appeal to the majority of players (how well ANet succeeded in this can be debated, of course); fractals & raids don't need to be designed for everyone. > > They do when they're 2/3 of content updates. Make a list of all the content updates this year. List all the types of content changes and then look at how much of that includes fractal or raid. They can release changes to fractals and raids faster in some ways because they don't have to appeal to everyone; it's easier to design for a more homogeneous audience than for the entire community. > > Fractals also USED to be designed for everyone, now they're not. No, that was never true and ANet just confirmed that it wasn't. > I don't find them hard, I'm not a bad player, but I know from experience this games player base cannot handle harder content and shoving harder content into the game is only going to cause gigantic issues for this game. Fractals have been "harder" in that way since they first came out. Even dungeons were hard. Lots of people I know from Guild Wars 1 who were fine in those dungeons had trouble in GW2's. The game has always included content that "the base" couldn't handle. > > You don't make a super casual game then 4 years later randomly decide to start only making harder and harder content, you've already gotten a player base you created for 4 years that are used to braindead easy content, they are NOT going to be happy. Except that's a revisionist view of what happened. With the exception of raids, the game has always had modestly challenging content and over time, ANet has worked to add to that. Dungeons are easy now primarily because we understand the mechanics of the game and of the dungeons better and a lot because builds do far, far more damage now than they used to. But to start with, the dungeon community was every bit as elitist as the raid community is today, which is to say: lots of people didn't much care as long as their team learned from mistakes and lots of people refused to allow anyone in their party who didn't meet some arbitrary threshold (often they used AP or did gear checks). tl;dr raids & fractals are designed to appeal to a fraction of the community; the core game is designed for 'everyone'. It's a big game; there's room for both. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feanor.2358 Posted December 10, 2017 Share Posted December 10, 2017 > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > @"Sooloo.1364" said: > > Being in a guild of more mature folks im finding it increasingly difficult to entice anyone to even do them anymore. > > I remember it started with Swampland and even then people found it way too hard, some pugs still do. Then Chaos, which is great but some find way too hard. > > But these latest additions are impossible for a lot of people, T4 Observatory and this new Oasis Fractal. Too fast, too much AOE, too much everything. > > Fractals used to be a fun distraction when people were bored, I could always rally a group. Nobody wants to do these though, it's just too much work. > > And pls dont even suggest doing them at lower tiers, if you can't handle T4 then you shouldn't even be in there... and pugs, I dont even wanna try that again. > > Im curious though, if my guild isnt doing them regularly anymore because of this, how many others feel the same? > > I've noticed this sift as well as the newer and revised fractals are much longer and more tedious and full of spam effects then previous ones, As best I can surmise, this is due to the fact that development team wants to reform GW2's PvE content into a Raid focused End Game, as such, Fractals are becoming more aligned to be Mini-raid, or Raid-Prep content. > > And as far as i can tell from what the Devs have said directly on this matter, that seems to where they want to go.. so, either hold on for the ride.. or get ready to get out. Actually it is due to the fact the devs want more fun and engaging encounters. Recent Mai Trin changes are indicative of that. There's more action, and the actual tedious part where you were stuck for ages doing nothing, is made interactive. I'm looking forward to them reworking Jade Maw, which is equally boring with the whole "wait for ages until it decides to attack you, hurl the crystal back on it, repeat forever because you're doing minuscule damage". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyper Cutter.9376 Posted December 10, 2017 Share Posted December 10, 2017 > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > The average LFG player didn't care about fractals when rewards were kitten and ascended rings were the only ascended available. No one had a problem with the difficulty. Somehow ever since ascended boxes became available everyone is expecting this content to appeal to their skill level. It's almost as if this was directly related to Anet gutting dungeons and trying to make everyone do fractals instead by increasing their rewards... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maddoctor.2738 Posted December 10, 2017 Share Posted December 10, 2017 > @"Shiyo.3578" said: > Fractals also USED to be designed for everyone, now they're not. First, Fractals are still designed for everyone, they have multiple tiers after all. You can't beat T4, go to T3, can't beat T3, go to T2. Second, higher tier Fractals also USED to be designed for an even more tiny minority back before Heart of Thorns. Getting above 50 was a pain, now it's a joke. Just like there are changes towards making them more available, there are also changes to make them less available to keep the intended audience. With the power creep of two expansions the amount of players running T4 fractals increased a lot, they had to tone it down, after all it's supposed to be challenging content, not content that a semi-afk player can finish. The tiers still exist though, so use them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miellyn.6847 Posted December 10, 2017 Share Posted December 10, 2017 > @"Shiyo.3578" said: > > @"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said: > > > @Kheldorn.5123 said: > > > I hope Anet stops listening to loud minority and start thinking about playerbase as a whole. We are the core of the game, not raiders. > > > > Raids & fractals (especially t4) are intended to be challenging group content. The intended audience is a minority of the playerbase. The core of the game is designed to appeal to the majority of players (how well ANet succeeded in this can be debated, of course); fractals & raids don't need to be designed for everyone. > > They do when they're 2/3 of content updates. > > Fractals also USED to be designed for everyone, now they're not. I don't find them hard, I'm not a bad player, but I know from experience this games player base cannot handle harder content and shoving harder content into the game is only going to cause gigantic issues for this game. > > You don't make a super casual game then 4 years later randomly decide to start only making harder and harder content, you've already gotten a player base you created for 4 years that are used to braindead easy content, they are NOT going to be happy. Fractals ARE designed for everyone. That's why they have difficulty scales. But appearently that does nothing... > @"Hyper Cutter.9376" said: > It's almost as if this was directly related to Anet gutting dungeons and trying to make everyone do fractals instead by increasing their rewards... Dungeon rewards are almost on par with what they used to be prior the nerf. If you have trinket recipes they are better. Can we please stop spreading this lie about dungeon rewards? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyninja.2954 Posted December 10, 2017 Share Posted December 10, 2017 > @"Hyper Cutter.9376" said: > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > The average LFG player didn't care about fractals when rewards were kitten and ascended rings were the only ascended available. No one had a problem with the difficulty. Somehow ever since ascended boxes became available everyone is expecting this content to appeal to their skill level. > It's almost as if this was directly related to Anet gutting dungeons and trying to make everyone do fractals instead by increasing their rewards... I'm not even going to do the math again for you (which I have in the past for other uninformed posters on the forums) because honestly, you'd stick to your uninformed belief, just like most of the other arguments in this thread from one side of the argument are made up and plain out wrong. Short story: dungeons rewards were nerfed and shortly after upgraded even beyond what they were. Dungeon rewards are not the best gold/hour any longer due to many more lucrative farms introduced into the game. Any person with basic math skills can confirm this for themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astralporing.1957 Posted December 10, 2017 Share Posted December 10, 2017 > @"Mourningcry.9428" said: > Fractals are more casual friendly now than they ever were.... > > Just compare to the original and second revamps of Fotm - remember 3 maps (ok, swamp +2) and a boss? There was a reason why selling Frac 50 was so profitable.... And that's just the time commitment... not even talking about the equipment investment or the higher skill floor... Actually, it was completely all right if you didn't roll cliffside or dredges. And incidentally it was those two fractals that got redone in order to make them less annoying and faster to run. > @"Feanor.2358" said: > Actually it is due to the fact the devs want more fun and engaging encounters. Then they're failing. The encounters are more engaging, that's true, but not in a fun way. > @"Miellyn.6847" said: > Dungeon rewards are almost on par with what they used to be prior the nerf. If you have trinket recipes they are better. Can we please stop spreading this lie about dungeon rewards? Only when we include dungeoneer reward and assume you are running a lot of paths (to trigger dungeoneer reward more often), and in an efficient way. Which most of the people that prefer dungeons of old over fractals _wouldn't_ do. And most people do not have any trinket recipes either - their drop rates were (still are, for those that aren't plain out bugged and never drop) ultra rare and obtainable practically only by heavy farmers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyninja.2954 Posted December 10, 2017 Share Posted December 10, 2017 > @"Astralporing.1957" said: > > @"Mourningcry.9428" said: > > Fractals are more casual friendly now than they ever were.... > > > > Just compare to the original and second revamps of Fotm - remember 3 maps (ok, swamp +2) and a boss? There was a reason why selling Frac 50 was so profitable.... And that's just the time commitment... not even talking about the equipment investment or the higher skill floor... > > Actually, it was completely all right if you didn't roll cliffside or dredges. And incidentally it was those two fractals that got redone in order to make them less annoying and faster to run. > > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > Actually it is due to the fact the devs want more fun and engaging encounters. > Then they're failing. The encounters are more engaging, that's true, but not in a fun way. > > > @"Miellyn.6847" said: > > Dungeon rewards are almost on par with what they used to be prior the nerf. If you have trinket recipes they are better. Can we please stop spreading this lie about dungeon rewards? > Only when we include dungeoneer reward and assume you are running a lot of paths (to trigger dungeoneer reward more often), and in an efficient way. Which most of the people that prefer dungeons of old over fractals _wouldn't_ do. And most people do not have any trinket recipes either - their drop rates were (still are, for those that aren't plain out bugged and never drop) ultra rare and obtainable practically only by heavy farmers. > Sure, you have to complete dungoneer and 8 different paths now. You also have 2 expansions worth of powercreep to make it easier and faster. Do I really need to go on? The dungeons being less lucrative story is nonsense. The main reason dungeons are run less is because there is more lucrative alternatives now than there was 4 years ago. That has nothing to do with the changes to dungeon rewards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feanor.2358 Posted December 10, 2017 Share Posted December 10, 2017 > @"Astralporing.1957" said: > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > Actually it is due to the fact the devs want more fun and engaging encounters. > Then they're failing. The encounters are more engaging, that's true, but not in a fun way. Au contraire. They are definitely a lot more fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mourningcry.9428 Posted December 10, 2017 Share Posted December 10, 2017 > @"Astralporing.1957" said: > > @"Mourningcry.9428" said: > > Fractals are more casual friendly now than they ever were.... > > > > Just compare to the original and second revamps of Fotm - remember 3 maps (ok, swamp +2) and a boss? There was a reason why selling Frac 50 was so profitable.... And that's just the time commitment... not even talking about the equipment investment or the higher skill floor... > > Actually, it was completely all right if you didn't roll cliffside or dredges. And incidentally it was those two fractals that got redone in order to make them less annoying and faster to run. > The point being that 4 fractals were required in order to get the final chest/daily completion... for one tier. This was ~~not~~ the overriding issue which was deemed to make fractals less casual friendly and the ultimate rework to the system currently in place. Just for perspective, at a minimum to max level 50, a player would need to either complete at least 49 fractals (all boss islands)...There was no way enough agony/relics dropped in order to fully outfit a character with the minimum runs. The necessity for regular relics to buy simple infusions required numerous runs at a given tier before enough agony resistance could be had. If I recall, there were only 3(?) possible slots for agony infusions... Now, a player need only complete 100 islands. Agony distribution far exceeds need, and any shortfall can be purchased cheaply off the TP (~13g as opposed to 45g+ for a +10 infusion). Now, how is the old system more casual friendly again? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turin.6921 Posted December 10, 2017 Share Posted December 10, 2017 I love how people are still discussing about fractals and if they are casual or not after the dev very clearly stated in this very thread the philosophy of each tier. Guys t4 are supposed to be the hardest content for 5-man PvE. T1-3 are miles easier than fractals have ever been. If you do not understand that then you clearly never tried to level up with the old system before HoT. You are saying fractals now are too long. The old system made you to run 4 of them in one go or you did not get rewards. No matter how long a fractal gets it would never get as long the length of a single run back then. AR availability did not scale well with level and you had to farm the same level over and over again to increase you AR. Also nobody seems to remember the insane toughness scaling right after HoT for 50+ levels that made every fight insanely long and repetitive. Fractals are more accessible than they have ever been in the game´s lifetime. If you want sth akin to dungeon difficulty stick with T2. These are supposed to represent the typical dungeon difficulty. Just because T4 is there it does not mean that you have to do it. They are only there for those that have fun with the challenge. And if you want the gold rewards they are 10 different alternatives to farm gold besides for T4 fractals in the open world. > @"Talindra.4958" said: > i feel that those players are missing out and many distant themselves from the challenging content not because they didn't want to play, they just couldn't .. its just too hard for them to catch up to the speed - maybe due to not able to play hardcore or perhaps other reasons.. I would love to be able to take anyone, anyone to t4 at least.. if not 100cm, but it is impossible with the way the game is set up, we don't mind 3 men t4 but people will not be able to enjoy the run with us without having proper gearing at least the required AR and theres soo much mechanics involve in all the recent updates... There is no reason for us to do low level fractal again on daily basis because it does not benefit us at all. The reason we are doing t4 is the daily reward and liquid gold and the reason I am doing 100cm is the infusion drop - ofc i never get them... > Back in the good old days, we can take anyone.. absolutely anyone into dungeon and have a full run with them.. it was so much fun during that time.. so so much fun, everyone basically from all background can enjoy it. i do CMs + t4 if not daily.. quite frequently and wing 1-4 under approx. I apologize if i come out a bit hard but this comes out as amazingly selfish. If you enjoy playing with these other people then play T2 with them. The rewards should not be a factor if you are having fun playing with others. Additionally these less hardcore ppl can use your experience and learn with your help and eventually bring them to a level that they can do t4 with you if they want. Saying I want to be able to play with anyone but i do not, cause i do not get enough gold for it does not scream comradery to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrubySzymek.1362 Posted December 10, 2017 Share Posted December 10, 2017 > @"Turin.6921" said: > I love how people are still discussing about fractals and if they are casual or not after the dev very clearly stated in this very thread the philosophy of each tier. > > Guys t4 are supposed to be the hardest content for 5-man PvE. T1-3 are miles easier than fractals have ever been. If you do not understand that then you clearly never tried to level up with the old system before HoT. > > You are saying fractals now are too long. The old system made you to run 4 of them in one go or you did not get rewards. No matter how long a fractal gets it would never get as long the length of a single run back then. AR availability did not scale well with level and you had to farm the same level over and over again to increase you AR. Also nobody seems to remember the insane toughness scaling right after HoT for 50+ levels that made every fight insanely long and repetitive. > > Fractals are more accessible than they have ever been in the game´s lifetime. If you want sth akin to dungeon difficulty stick with T2. These are supposed to represent the typical dungeon difficulty. Just because T4 is there it does not mean that you have to do it. They are only there for those that have fun with the challenge. And if you want the gold rewards they are 10 different alternatives to farm gold besides for T4 fractals in the open world. > > > @"Talindra.4958" said: > > i feel that those players are missing out and many distant themselves from the challenging content not because they didn't want to play, they just couldn't .. its just too hard for them to catch up to the speed - maybe due to not able to play hardcore or perhaps other reasons.. I would love to be able to take anyone, anyone to t4 at least.. if not 100cm, but it is impossible with the way the game is set up, we don't mind 3 men t4 but people will not be able to enjoy the run with us without having proper gearing at least the required AR and theres soo much mechanics involve in all the recent updates... There is no reason for us to do low level fractal again on daily basis because it does not benefit us at all. The reason we are doing t4 is the daily reward and liquid gold and the reason I am doing 100cm is the infusion drop - ofc i never get them... > > Back in the good old days, we can take anyone.. absolutely anyone into dungeon and have a full run with them.. it was so much fun during that time.. so so much fun, everyone basically from all background can enjoy it. i do CMs + t4 if not daily.. quite frequently and wing 1-4 under approx. > > I apologize if i come out a bit hard but this comes out as amazingly selfish. If you enjoy playing with these other people then play T2 with them. The rewards should not be a factor if you are having fun playing with others. Additionally these less hardcore ppl can use your experience and learn with your help and eventually bring them to a level that they can do t4 with you if they want. Saying I want to be able to play with anyone but i do not, cause i do not get enough gold for it does not scream comradery to me. Just because dev said sth it doesn't mean people must agree with him :) If not for constant whining you would never ride a mount in GW2. Or raid :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turin.6921 Posted December 10, 2017 Share Posted December 10, 2017 > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > @"Turin.6921" said: > > I love how people are still discussing about fractals and if they are casual or not after the dev very clearly stated in this very thread the philosophy of each tier. > > > > Guys t4 are supposed to be the hardest content for 5-man PvE. T1-3 are miles easier than fractals have ever been. If you do not understand that then you clearly never tried to level up with the old system before HoT. > > > > You are saying fractals now are too long. The old system made you to run 4 of them in one go or you did not get rewards. No matter how long a fractal gets it would never get as long the length of a single run back then. AR availability did not scale well with level and you had to farm the same level over and over again to increase you AR. Also nobody seems to remember the insane toughness scaling right after HoT for 50+ levels that made every fight insanely long and repetitive. > > > > Fractals are more accessible than they have ever been in the game´s lifetime. If you want sth akin to dungeon difficulty stick with T2. These are supposed to represent the typical dungeon difficulty. Just because T4 is there it does not mean that you have to do it. They are only there for those that have fun with the challenge. And if you want the gold rewards they are 10 different alternatives to farm gold besides for T4 fractals in the open world. > > > > > @"Talindra.4958" said: > > > i feel that those players are missing out and many distant themselves from the challenging content not because they didn't want to play, they just couldn't .. its just too hard for them to catch up to the speed - maybe due to not able to play hardcore or perhaps other reasons.. I would love to be able to take anyone, anyone to t4 at least.. if not 100cm, but it is impossible with the way the game is set up, we don't mind 3 men t4 but people will not be able to enjoy the run with us without having proper gearing at least the required AR and theres soo much mechanics involve in all the recent updates... There is no reason for us to do low level fractal again on daily basis because it does not benefit us at all. The reason we are doing t4 is the daily reward and liquid gold and the reason I am doing 100cm is the infusion drop - ofc i never get them... > > > Back in the good old days, we can take anyone.. absolutely anyone into dungeon and have a full run with them.. it was so much fun during that time.. so so much fun, everyone basically from all background can enjoy it. i do CMs + t4 if not daily.. quite frequently and wing 1-4 under approx. > > > > I apologize if i come out a bit hard but this comes out as amazingly selfish. If you enjoy playing with these other people then play T2 with them. The rewards should not be a factor if you are having fun playing with others. Additionally these less hardcore ppl can use your experience and learn with your help and eventually bring them to a level that they can do t4 with you if they want. Saying I want to be able to play with anyone but i do not, cause i do not get enough gold for it does not scream comradery to me. > > Just because dev said sth it doesn't mean people must agree with him :) > > If not for constant whining you would never ride a mount in GW2. Or raid :) There is also a difference between requesting things and whining...And not all requests should be followed or have merit. There is also a difference saying ¨i want fractals to be that¨ and saying ¨fractals are supposed to be that¨. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyninja.2954 Posted December 10, 2017 Share Posted December 10, 2017 > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > @"Turin.6921" said: > > I love how people are still discussing about fractals and if they are casual or not after the dev very clearly stated in this very thread the philosophy of each tier. > > > > Guys t4 are supposed to be the hardest content for 5-man PvE. T1-3 are miles easier than fractals have ever been. If you do not understand that then you clearly never tried to level up with the old system before HoT. > > > > You are saying fractals now are too long. The old system made you to run 4 of them in one go or you did not get rewards. No matter how long a fractal gets it would never get as long the length of a single run back then. AR availability did not scale well with level and you had to farm the same level over and over again to increase you AR. Also nobody seems to remember the insane toughness scaling right after HoT for 50+ levels that made every fight insanely long and repetitive. > > > > Fractals are more accessible than they have ever been in the game´s lifetime. If you want sth akin to dungeon difficulty stick with T2. These are supposed to represent the typical dungeon difficulty. Just because T4 is there it does not mean that you have to do it. They are only there for those that have fun with the challenge. And if you want the gold rewards they are 10 different alternatives to farm gold besides for T4 fractals in the open world. > > > > > @"Talindra.4958" said: > > > i feel that those players are missing out and many distant themselves from the challenging content not because they didn't want to play, they just couldn't .. its just too hard for them to catch up to the speed - maybe due to not able to play hardcore or perhaps other reasons.. I would love to be able to take anyone, anyone to t4 at least.. if not 100cm, but it is impossible with the way the game is set up, we don't mind 3 men t4 but people will not be able to enjoy the run with us without having proper gearing at least the required AR and theres soo much mechanics involve in all the recent updates... There is no reason for us to do low level fractal again on daily basis because it does not benefit us at all. The reason we are doing t4 is the daily reward and liquid gold and the reason I am doing 100cm is the infusion drop - ofc i never get them... > > > Back in the good old days, we can take anyone.. absolutely anyone into dungeon and have a full run with them.. it was so much fun during that time.. so so much fun, everyone basically from all background can enjoy it. i do CMs + t4 if not daily.. quite frequently and wing 1-4 under approx. > > > > I apologize if i come out a bit hard but this comes out as amazingly selfish. If you enjoy playing with these other people then play T2 with them. The rewards should not be a factor if you are having fun playing with others. Additionally these less hardcore ppl can use your experience and learn with your help and eventually bring them to a level that they can do t4 with you if they want. Saying I want to be able to play with anyone but i do not, cause i do not get enough gold for it does not scream comradery to me. > > Just because dev said sth it doesn't mean people must agree with him :) > > If not for constant whining you would never ride a mount in GW2. Or raid :) Absolutely, you don't have to agree with the developers on THEIR vision of the game (which hopefully is backed by their data and metrics to player activity). Arguing from that standpoint though is way different and definitely not an argument on equal footing with people who are not opposed to the current design and plan. Something many seem to forget when posting their wishes and demands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrubySzymek.1362 Posted December 10, 2017 Share Posted December 10, 2017 > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > @"Turin.6921" said: > > > I love how people are still discussing about fractals and if they are casual or not after the dev very clearly stated in this very thread the philosophy of each tier. > > > > > > Guys t4 are supposed to be the hardest content for 5-man PvE. T1-3 are miles easier than fractals have ever been. If you do not understand that then you clearly never tried to level up with the old system before HoT. > > > > > > You are saying fractals now are too long. The old system made you to run 4 of them in one go or you did not get rewards. No matter how long a fractal gets it would never get as long the length of a single run back then. AR availability did not scale well with level and you had to farm the same level over and over again to increase you AR. Also nobody seems to remember the insane toughness scaling right after HoT for 50+ levels that made every fight insanely long and repetitive. > > > > > > Fractals are more accessible than they have ever been in the game´s lifetime. If you want sth akin to dungeon difficulty stick with T2. These are supposed to represent the typical dungeon difficulty. Just because T4 is there it does not mean that you have to do it. They are only there for those that have fun with the challenge. And if you want the gold rewards they are 10 different alternatives to farm gold besides for T4 fractals in the open world. > > > > > > > @"Talindra.4958" said: > > > > i feel that those players are missing out and many distant themselves from the challenging content not because they didn't want to play, they just couldn't .. its just too hard for them to catch up to the speed - maybe due to not able to play hardcore or perhaps other reasons.. I would love to be able to take anyone, anyone to t4 at least.. if not 100cm, but it is impossible with the way the game is set up, we don't mind 3 men t4 but people will not be able to enjoy the run with us without having proper gearing at least the required AR and theres soo much mechanics involve in all the recent updates... There is no reason for us to do low level fractal again on daily basis because it does not benefit us at all. The reason we are doing t4 is the daily reward and liquid gold and the reason I am doing 100cm is the infusion drop - ofc i never get them... > > > > Back in the good old days, we can take anyone.. absolutely anyone into dungeon and have a full run with them.. it was so much fun during that time.. so so much fun, everyone basically from all background can enjoy it. i do CMs + t4 if not daily.. quite frequently and wing 1-4 under approx. > > > > > > I apologize if i come out a bit hard but this comes out as amazingly selfish. If you enjoy playing with these other people then play T2 with them. The rewards should not be a factor if you are having fun playing with others. Additionally these less hardcore ppl can use your experience and learn with your help and eventually bring them to a level that they can do t4 with you if they want. Saying I want to be able to play with anyone but i do not, cause i do not get enough gold for it does not scream comradery to me. > > > > Just because dev said sth it doesn't mean people must agree with him :) > > > > If not for constant whining you would never ride a mount in GW2. Or raid :) > > Absolutely, you don't have to agree with the developers on THEIR vision of the game (which hopefully is backed by their data and metrics to player activity). > > Arguing from that standpoint though is way different and definitely not an argument on equal footing with people who are not opposed to the current design and plan. > > Something many seem to forget when posting their wishes and demands. Since I do not like new direction of new fractals I'm going to remind devs about it, just like others should, so maybe at one point they'll reconsider their flawed perspective of new fractal developement approach :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyninja.2954 Posted December 10, 2017 Share Posted December 10, 2017 > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > @"Turin.6921" said: > > > > I love how people are still discussing about fractals and if they are casual or not after the dev very clearly stated in this very thread the philosophy of each tier. > > > > > > > > Guys t4 are supposed to be the hardest content for 5-man PvE. T1-3 are miles easier than fractals have ever been. If you do not understand that then you clearly never tried to level up with the old system before HoT. > > > > > > > > You are saying fractals now are too long. The old system made you to run 4 of them in one go or you did not get rewards. No matter how long a fractal gets it would never get as long the length of a single run back then. AR availability did not scale well with level and you had to farm the same level over and over again to increase you AR. Also nobody seems to remember the insane toughness scaling right after HoT for 50+ levels that made every fight insanely long and repetitive. > > > > > > > > Fractals are more accessible than they have ever been in the game´s lifetime. If you want sth akin to dungeon difficulty stick with T2. These are supposed to represent the typical dungeon difficulty. Just because T4 is there it does not mean that you have to do it. They are only there for those that have fun with the challenge. And if you want the gold rewards they are 10 different alternatives to farm gold besides for T4 fractals in the open world. > > > > > > > > > @"Talindra.4958" said: > > > > > i feel that those players are missing out and many distant themselves from the challenging content not because they didn't want to play, they just couldn't .. its just too hard for them to catch up to the speed - maybe due to not able to play hardcore or perhaps other reasons.. I would love to be able to take anyone, anyone to t4 at least.. if not 100cm, but it is impossible with the way the game is set up, we don't mind 3 men t4 but people will not be able to enjoy the run with us without having proper gearing at least the required AR and theres soo much mechanics involve in all the recent updates... There is no reason for us to do low level fractal again on daily basis because it does not benefit us at all. The reason we are doing t4 is the daily reward and liquid gold and the reason I am doing 100cm is the infusion drop - ofc i never get them... > > > > > Back in the good old days, we can take anyone.. absolutely anyone into dungeon and have a full run with them.. it was so much fun during that time.. so so much fun, everyone basically from all background can enjoy it. i do CMs + t4 if not daily.. quite frequently and wing 1-4 under approx. > > > > > > > > I apologize if i come out a bit hard but this comes out as amazingly selfish. If you enjoy playing with these other people then play T2 with them. The rewards should not be a factor if you are having fun playing with others. Additionally these less hardcore ppl can use your experience and learn with your help and eventually bring them to a level that they can do t4 with you if they want. Saying I want to be able to play with anyone but i do not, cause i do not get enough gold for it does not scream comradery to me. > > > > > > Just because dev said sth it doesn't mean people must agree with him :) > > > > > > If not for constant whining you would never ride a mount in GW2. Or raid :) > > > > Absolutely, you don't have to agree with the developers on THEIR vision of the game (which hopefully is backed by their data and metrics to player activity). > > > > Arguing from that standpoint though is way different and definitely not an argument on equal footing with people who are not opposed to the current design and plan. > > > > Something many seem to forget when posting their wishes and demands. > > You are just a player. You are irrelevant from my point of view :) > > Since I do not like new direction of new fractals I'm going to remind devs about it, just like others should, so maybe at one point they'll reconsider their flawed perspective of new fractal developement approach :) Yeah, then why bother arguing at all in a forum where 99% of your interaction is with other players? But I get it, I'd sing the same tune if my desire and argumentation towards how I want the game to be got shot down this badly. You are correct though, keep reminding the developers of what you want. Make sure to tell people though that you are not looking for discussion but are just putting up your ideas which are absolute. Do expect to receive push back on a forum where every one is entitled to their opinions and don't get discouraged if your unrealistic expectation are never met. In the meantime the developers will do what any good developer will do: - they will stick to their vision - they will make sure their design and vision is backed by player numbers and metrics - they will ignore you until there is a drastic shift in player behavior which warrants change TL;DR: keep running against a wall with unrealistic expectations of breaking it down. Maybe there is a shift in seismic activity which makes the wall crumble. Stop bothering others whose house uses part of that wall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrubySzymek.1362 Posted December 10, 2017 Share Posted December 10, 2017 > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > > @"Turin.6921" said: > > > > > I love how people are still discussing about fractals and if they are casual or not after the dev very clearly stated in this very thread the philosophy of each tier. > > > > > > > > > > Guys t4 are supposed to be the hardest content for 5-man PvE. T1-3 are miles easier than fractals have ever been. If you do not understand that then you clearly never tried to level up with the old system before HoT. > > > > > > > > > > You are saying fractals now are too long. The old system made you to run 4 of them in one go or you did not get rewards. No matter how long a fractal gets it would never get as long the length of a single run back then. AR availability did not scale well with level and you had to farm the same level over and over again to increase you AR. Also nobody seems to remember the insane toughness scaling right after HoT for 50+ levels that made every fight insanely long and repetitive. > > > > > > > > > > Fractals are more accessible than they have ever been in the game´s lifetime. If you want sth akin to dungeon difficulty stick with T2. These are supposed to represent the typical dungeon difficulty. Just because T4 is there it does not mean that you have to do it. They are only there for those that have fun with the challenge. And if you want the gold rewards they are 10 different alternatives to farm gold besides for T4 fractals in the open world. > > > > > > > > > > > @"Talindra.4958" said: > > > > > > i feel that those players are missing out and many distant themselves from the challenging content not because they didn't want to play, they just couldn't .. its just too hard for them to catch up to the speed - maybe due to not able to play hardcore or perhaps other reasons.. I would love to be able to take anyone, anyone to t4 at least.. if not 100cm, but it is impossible with the way the game is set up, we don't mind 3 men t4 but people will not be able to enjoy the run with us without having proper gearing at least the required AR and theres soo much mechanics involve in all the recent updates... There is no reason for us to do low level fractal again on daily basis because it does not benefit us at all. The reason we are doing t4 is the daily reward and liquid gold and the reason I am doing 100cm is the infusion drop - ofc i never get them... > > > > > > Back in the good old days, we can take anyone.. absolutely anyone into dungeon and have a full run with them.. it was so much fun during that time.. so so much fun, everyone basically from all background can enjoy it. i do CMs + t4 if not daily.. quite frequently and wing 1-4 under approx. > > > > > > > > > > I apologize if i come out a bit hard but this comes out as amazingly selfish. If you enjoy playing with these other people then play T2 with them. The rewards should not be a factor if you are having fun playing with others. Additionally these less hardcore ppl can use your experience and learn with your help and eventually bring them to a level that they can do t4 with you if they want. Saying I want to be able to play with anyone but i do not, cause i do not get enough gold for it does not scream comradery to me. > > > > > > > > Just because dev said sth it doesn't mean people must agree with him :) > > > > > > > > If not for constant whining you would never ride a mount in GW2. Or raid :) > > > > > > Absolutely, you don't have to agree with the developers on THEIR vision of the game (which hopefully is backed by their data and metrics to player activity). > > > > > > Arguing from that standpoint though is way different and definitely not an argument on equal footing with people who are not opposed to the current design and plan. > > > > > > Something many seem to forget when posting their wishes and demands. > > > > You are just a player. You are irrelevant from my point of view :) > > > > Since I do not like new direction of new fractals I'm going to remind devs about it, just like others should, so maybe at one point they'll reconsider their flawed perspective of new fractal developement approach :) > > Yeah, then why bother arguing at all in a forum where 99% of your interaction is with other players? But I get it, I'd sing the same tune if my desire and argumentation towards how I want the game to be got shot down this badly. > > You are correct though, keep reminding the developers of what you want. Make sure to tell people though that you are not looking for discussion but are just putting up your ideas which are absolute. Do expect to receive push back on a forum where every one is entitled to their opinions and don't get discouraged if your unrealistic expectation are never met. > > In the meantime the developers will do what any good developer will do: > > - they will stick to their vision > - they will make sure their design and vision is backed by player numbers and metrics > - they will ignore you until there is a drastic shift in player behavior which warrants change > > TL;DR: keep running against a wall with unrealistic expectations of breaking it down. Maybe there is a shift in seismic activity which makes the wall crumble. Stop bothering others whose house uses part of that wall. But Anet changed their vision many times. One of changes was introducing raiding in expense of easier, more popular instanced content. Question is, why are they now good developers? Because they did what you want and you are trying to manipulate the discussion to make unhappy customers look irrational while it was you, raiders, complaining about the game for full 3 years until you got what you wanted :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyninja.2954 Posted December 10, 2017 Share Posted December 10, 2017 > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > > > @"Turin.6921" said: > > > > > > I love how people are still discussing about fractals and if they are casual or not after the dev very clearly stated in this very thread the philosophy of each tier. > > > > > > > > > > > > Guys t4 are supposed to be the hardest content for 5-man PvE. T1-3 are miles easier than fractals have ever been. If you do not understand that then you clearly never tried to level up with the old system before HoT. > > > > > > > > > > > > You are saying fractals now are too long. The old system made you to run 4 of them in one go or you did not get rewards. No matter how long a fractal gets it would never get as long the length of a single run back then. AR availability did not scale well with level and you had to farm the same level over and over again to increase you AR. Also nobody seems to remember the insane toughness scaling right after HoT for 50+ levels that made every fight insanely long and repetitive. > > > > > > > > > > > > Fractals are more accessible than they have ever been in the game´s lifetime. If you want sth akin to dungeon difficulty stick with T2. These are supposed to represent the typical dungeon difficulty. Just because T4 is there it does not mean that you have to do it. They are only there for those that have fun with the challenge. And if you want the gold rewards they are 10 different alternatives to farm gold besides for T4 fractals in the open world. > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Talindra.4958" said: > > > > > > > i feel that those players are missing out and many distant themselves from the challenging content not because they didn't want to play, they just couldn't .. its just too hard for them to catch up to the speed - maybe due to not able to play hardcore or perhaps other reasons.. I would love to be able to take anyone, anyone to t4 at least.. if not 100cm, but it is impossible with the way the game is set up, we don't mind 3 men t4 but people will not be able to enjoy the run with us without having proper gearing at least the required AR and theres soo much mechanics involve in all the recent updates... There is no reason for us to do low level fractal again on daily basis because it does not benefit us at all. The reason we are doing t4 is the daily reward and liquid gold and the reason I am doing 100cm is the infusion drop - ofc i never get them... > > > > > > > Back in the good old days, we can take anyone.. absolutely anyone into dungeon and have a full run with them.. it was so much fun during that time.. so so much fun, everyone basically from all background can enjoy it. i do CMs + t4 if not daily.. quite frequently and wing 1-4 under approx. > > > > > > > > > > > > I apologize if i come out a bit hard but this comes out as amazingly selfish. If you enjoy playing with these other people then play T2 with them. The rewards should not be a factor if you are having fun playing with others. Additionally these less hardcore ppl can use your experience and learn with your help and eventually bring them to a level that they can do t4 with you if they want. Saying I want to be able to play with anyone but i do not, cause i do not get enough gold for it does not scream comradery to me. > > > > > > > > > > Just because dev said sth it doesn't mean people must agree with him :) > > > > > > > > > > If not for constant whining you would never ride a mount in GW2. Or raid :) > > > > > > > > Absolutely, you don't have to agree with the developers on THEIR vision of the game (which hopefully is backed by their data and metrics to player activity). > > > > > > > > Arguing from that standpoint though is way different and definitely not an argument on equal footing with people who are not opposed to the current design and plan. > > > > > > > > Something many seem to forget when posting their wishes and demands. > > > > > > You are just a player. You are irrelevant from my point of view :) > > > > > > Since I do not like new direction of new fractals I'm going to remind devs about it, just like others should, so maybe at one point they'll reconsider their flawed perspective of new fractal developement approach :) > > > > Yeah, then why bother arguing at all in a forum where 99% of your interaction is with other players? But I get it, I'd sing the same tune if my desire and argumentation towards how I want the game to be got shot down this badly. > > > > You are correct though, keep reminding the developers of what you want. Make sure to tell people though that you are not looking for discussion but are just putting up your ideas which are absolute. Do expect to receive push back on a forum where every one is entitled to their opinions and don't get discouraged if your unrealistic expectation are never met. > > > > In the meantime the developers will do what any good developer will do: > > > > - they will stick to their vision > > - they will make sure their design and vision is backed by player numbers and metrics > > - they will ignore you until there is a drastic shift in player behavior which warrants change > > > > TL;DR: keep running against a wall with unrealistic expectations of breaking it down. Maybe there is a shift in seismic activity which makes the wall crumble. Stop bothering others whose house uses part of that wall. > > But Anet changed their vision many times. One of changes was introducing raiding in expense of easier, more popular instanced content. Question is, why are they now good developers? Because they did what you want and you are trying to manipulate the discussion to make unhappy customers look irrational while it was you, raiders, complaining about the game for full 3 years until you got what you wanted :) You answered your own question right there... Why did they change their approach? Because the old approach was not working. Makes sense huh? Also even if you are putting nice smileys behind all your sentences, throwing around allegations as to manipulation and complaining is at best shady, and at worst slander. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyninja.2954 Posted December 10, 2017 Share Posted December 10, 2017 > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > > > > > @"Turin.6921" said: > > > > > > > > I love how people are still discussing about fractals and if they are casual or not after the dev very clearly stated in this very thread the philosophy of each tier. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Guys t4 are supposed to be the hardest content for 5-man PvE. T1-3 are miles easier than fractals have ever been. If you do not understand that then you clearly never tried to level up with the old system before HoT. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You are saying fractals now are too long. The old system made you to run 4 of them in one go or you did not get rewards. No matter how long a fractal gets it would never get as long the length of a single run back then. AR availability did not scale well with level and you had to farm the same level over and over again to increase you AR. Also nobody seems to remember the insane toughness scaling right after HoT for 50+ levels that made every fight insanely long and repetitive. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Fractals are more accessible than they have ever been in the game´s lifetime. If you want sth akin to dungeon difficulty stick with T2. These are supposed to represent the typical dungeon difficulty. Just because T4 is there it does not mean that you have to do it. They are only there for those that have fun with the challenge. And if you want the gold rewards they are 10 different alternatives to farm gold besides for T4 fractals in the open world. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Talindra.4958" said: > > > > > > > > > i feel that those players are missing out and many distant themselves from the challenging content not because they didn't want to play, they just couldn't .. its just too hard for them to catch up to the speed - maybe due to not able to play hardcore or perhaps other reasons.. I would love to be able to take anyone, anyone to t4 at least.. if not 100cm, but it is impossible with the way the game is set up, we don't mind 3 men t4 but people will not be able to enjoy the run with us without having proper gearing at least the required AR and theres soo much mechanics involve in all the recent updates... There is no reason for us to do low level fractal again on daily basis because it does not benefit us at all. The reason we are doing t4 is the daily reward and liquid gold and the reason I am doing 100cm is the infusion drop - ofc i never get them... > > > > > > > > > Back in the good old days, we can take anyone.. absolutely anyone into dungeon and have a full run with them.. it was so much fun during that time.. so so much fun, everyone basically from all background can enjoy it. i do CMs + t4 if not daily.. quite frequently and wing 1-4 under approx. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I apologize if i come out a bit hard but this comes out as amazingly selfish. If you enjoy playing with these other people then play T2 with them. The rewards should not be a factor if you are having fun playing with others. Additionally these less hardcore ppl can use your experience and learn with your help and eventually bring them to a level that they can do t4 with you if they want. Saying I want to be able to play with anyone but i do not, cause i do not get enough gold for it does not scream comradery to me. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Just because dev said sth it doesn't mean people must agree with him :) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If not for constant whining you would never ride a mount in GW2. Or raid :) > > > > > > > > > > > > Absolutely, you don't have to agree with the developers on THEIR vision of the game (which hopefully is backed by their data and metrics to player activity). > > > > > > > > > > > > Arguing from that standpoint though is way different and definitely not an argument on equal footing with people who are not opposed to the current design and plan. > > > > > > > > > > > > Something many seem to forget when posting their wishes and demands. > > > > > > > > > > You are just a player. You are irrelevant from my point of view :) > > > > > > > > > > Since I do not like new direction of new fractals I'm going to remind devs about it, just like others should, so maybe at one point they'll reconsider their flawed perspective of new fractal developement approach :) > > > > > > > > Yeah, then why bother arguing at all in a forum where 99% of your interaction is with other players? But I get it, I'd sing the same tune if my desire and argumentation towards how I want the game to be got shot down this badly. > > > > > > > > You are correct though, keep reminding the developers of what you want. Make sure to tell people though that you are not looking for discussion but are just putting up your ideas which are absolute. Do expect to receive push back on a forum where every one is entitled to their opinions and don't get discouraged if your unrealistic expectation are never met. > > > > > > > > In the meantime the developers will do what any good developer will do: > > > > > > > > - they will stick to their vision > > > > - they will make sure their design and vision is backed by player numbers and metrics > > > > - they will ignore you until there is a drastic shift in player behavior which warrants change > > > > > > > > TL;DR: keep running against a wall with unrealistic expectations of breaking it down. Maybe there is a shift in seismic activity which makes the wall crumble. Stop bothering others whose house uses part of that wall. > > > > > > But Anet changed their vision many times. One of changes was introducing raiding in expense of easier, more popular instanced content. Question is, why are they now good developers? Because they did what you want and you are trying to manipulate the discussion to make unhappy customers look irrational while it was you, raiders, complaining about the game for full 3 years until you got what you wanted :) > > > > You answered your own question right there... > > > > Why did they change their approach? Because the old approach was not working. > > > > Makes sense huh? > > > > Also even if you are putting nice smileys behind all your sentences, throwing around allegations as to manipulation and complaining is at best shady, and at worst slander. > > There is nothing wrong in you having raids. But what people complain about is raid mechanics and people bleeding into fractals trying to make our content their content :) > > Also, try discussing the subject as making it personal attack towards me shows how flawed your argumentation is and breaks forum rules :) You directly accused me of complaining (even though my stance on this matter is congruent with the developer response), you directly accused me of manipulation even though you have been derailing this thread and openly stated you seek no discussion with other players. Glad you know forum rules. To bad you are not following them yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vinceman.4572 Posted December 10, 2017 Share Posted December 10, 2017 If you were interested in a serious and mature discussion you would not use those smileys at the end of almost each of your sentences. You pursue a certain goal with this usage but nobody falls for it and I'm glad that most of the answers you're getting are well documented and objective on the contrary to many of yours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrubySzymek.1362 Posted December 10, 2017 Share Posted December 10, 2017 > @"Vinceman.4572" said: > If you were interested in a serious and mature discussion you would not use those smileys at the end of almost each of your sentences. You pursue a certain goal with this usage but nobody falls for it and I'm glad that most of the answers you're getting are well documented and objective on the contrary to many of yours. Just because you agree with vocal minority it doesn't mean their/your opinions are more important than mine. We paid the same for the game :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flog.3485 Posted December 10, 2017 Share Posted December 10, 2017 > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > > > @"Turin.6921" said: > > > > > > I love how people are still discussing about fractals and if they are casual or not after the dev very clearly stated in this very thread the philosophy of each tier. > > > > > > > > > > > > Guys t4 are supposed to be the hardest content for 5-man PvE. T1-3 are miles easier than fractals have ever been. If you do not understand that then you clearly never tried to level up with the old system before HoT. > > > > > > > > > > > > You are saying fractals now are too long. The old system made you to run 4 of them in one go or you did not get rewards. No matter how long a fractal gets it would never get as long the length of a single run back then. AR availability did not scale well with level and you had to farm the same level over and over again to increase you AR. Also nobody seems to remember the insane toughness scaling right after HoT for 50+ levels that made every fight insanely long and repetitive. > > > > > > > > > > > > Fractals are more accessible than they have ever been in the game´s lifetime. If you want sth akin to dungeon difficulty stick with T2. These are supposed to represent the typical dungeon difficulty. Just because T4 is there it does not mean that you have to do it. They are only there for those that have fun with the challenge. And if you want the gold rewards they are 10 different alternatives to farm gold besides for T4 fractals in the open world. > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Talindra.4958" said: > > > > > > > i feel that those players are missing out and many distant themselves from the challenging content not because they didn't want to play, they just couldn't .. its just too hard for them to catch up to the speed - maybe due to not able to play hardcore or perhaps other reasons.. I would love to be able to take anyone, anyone to t4 at least.. if not 100cm, but it is impossible with the way the game is set up, we don't mind 3 men t4 but people will not be able to enjoy the run with us without having proper gearing at least the required AR and theres soo much mechanics involve in all the recent updates... There is no reason for us to do low level fractal again on daily basis because it does not benefit us at all. The reason we are doing t4 is the daily reward and liquid gold and the reason I am doing 100cm is the infusion drop - ofc i never get them... > > > > > > > Back in the good old days, we can take anyone.. absolutely anyone into dungeon and have a full run with them.. it was so much fun during that time.. so so much fun, everyone basically from all background can enjoy it. i do CMs + t4 if not daily.. quite frequently and wing 1-4 under approx. > > > > > > > > > > > > I apologize if i come out a bit hard but this comes out as amazingly selfish. If you enjoy playing with these other people then play T2 with them. The rewards should not be a factor if you are having fun playing with others. Additionally these less hardcore ppl can use your experience and learn with your help and eventually bring them to a level that they can do t4 with you if they want. Saying I want to be able to play with anyone but i do not, cause i do not get enough gold for it does not scream comradery to me. > > > > > > > > > > Just because dev said sth it doesn't mean people must agree with him :) > > > > > > > > > > If not for constant whining you would never ride a mount in GW2. Or raid :) > > > > > > > > Absolutely, you don't have to agree with the developers on THEIR vision of the game (which hopefully is backed by their data and metrics to player activity). > > > > > > > > Arguing from that standpoint though is way different and definitely not an argument on equal footing with people who are not opposed to the current design and plan. > > > > > > > > Something many seem to forget when posting their wishes and demands. > > > > > > You are just a player. You are irrelevant from my point of view :) > > > > > > Since I do not like new direction of new fractals I'm going to remind devs about it, just like others should, so maybe at one point they'll reconsider their flawed perspective of new fractal developement approach :) > > > > Yeah, then why bother arguing at all in a forum where 99% of your interaction is with other players? But I get it, I'd sing the same tune if my desire and argumentation towards how I want the game to be got shot down this badly. > > > > You are correct though, keep reminding the developers of what you want. Make sure to tell people though that you are not looking for discussion but are just putting up your ideas which are absolute. Do expect to receive push back on a forum where every one is entitled to their opinions and don't get discouraged if your unrealistic expectation are never met. > > > > In the meantime the developers will do what any good developer will do: > > > > - they will stick to their vision > > - they will make sure their design and vision is backed by player numbers and metrics > > - they will ignore you until there is a drastic shift in player behavior which warrants change > > > > TL;DR: keep running against a wall with unrealistic expectations of breaking it down. Maybe there is a shift in seismic activity which makes the wall crumble. Stop bothering others whose house uses part of that wall. > > But Anet changed their vision many times. One of changes was introducing raiding in expense of easier, more popular instanced content. Question is, why are they now good developers? Because they did what you want and you are trying to manipulate the discussion to make unhappy customers look irrational while it was you, raiders, complaining about the game for full 3 years until you got what you wanted :) I don't think you quite understand why people wanting a challenge were complaining :) The thing is, Anet wanted some form of challenge out of the game. It was supposed to be in explorable modes of dungeons. Ant it was just a big fail imo because it was just too easy, for most of the encounters, to just stack in a corner and dps down a boss. You could argue then that players would go fractals. But back then it was just tedious to play, to gain some AR, and worst of all you needed to actually complete 3 fractals just to gain the final chest reward. Most of players would rather just replay the easy dungeons while making a huge profit off it, which is another huge flaw of dungeons imo: the lack of incentives to play the hardest dungeon paths back in the day because one easy dungeon path would reward you the same base amount of gold that one hard dungeon path. And frankly, even without going into dungeons or fractals, PvE experience became quite dull after some time. After doing plenty of world boss trains, Plinx and frostgorge failed events, silverwaste and dry tops, it felt more fun to play PvP or even WvW, except maybe for the occasional Tequatl and triple trouble. To me, Open world became really fun and relevant once HoT was introduced. So yeah they have every right to make fractals challenging when you reach T4. If you can't handle it, don't have AR, just go play the fractal you want at an easier tier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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