Raiding its time for a change, its too complicated the way it is.

[Oglaf.1074]

> @meeflak.9714 said:

> > @TheRandomGuy.7246 said:

> > Skill effect slider was promised some time before HoT. And it was not even that bad back then. Guess making sure that players can see is not a priority.

>

> I play on a potato six year old PC.. it's really not that big of an issue, idk why it's being over dramatized so hard.

>

> Can it by annoying? Yea it can, sometimes the blues at VG are hard to see, they spawn on a cycle and have alittle audio queue. There's more then enough time to react.

 

The point is that it is artifical difficulty. Layering all the friendly AoEs and stuff on top of these circles make them unecessarily hard to see.

 

From a game design standpoint, it is terrible.

 

 

[Ertrak.9506]

Yano... you could actually try and figure out why youre dying...and yano... actually not do that...instead of just complaining and blaming everything else...

 

But what do i know.

[Vulf.3098]

> @Oglaf.1074 said:

> The point is that it is artifical difficulty. Layering all the friendly AoEs and stuff on top of these circles make them unecessarily hard to see.

>

> From a game design standpoint, it is terrible.

 

A little more control over certain settings mostly what we can tie to postprocessing and more options on what we can limit with effect LOD will go a very very long way. This is something even non raiders have wanted since the launch of the game.

 

 

[Raguel.9402]

> @Henry.5713 said:

> You should have tried to figure out Dhuum early last week before there were any guides or videos. Was a blast. Some of us actually enjoy that stuff over simply watching guides or facerolling Open World bosses. Let us have our niche content.

> Ask for an easy mode if you want. Most don't seem to be able to accept that there is any content in the game that is not specifically designed around their personal liking, so why should you? Just let those of us who enjoy raids have something at the current difficulty or even harder.

 

This.

 

The new wing was super fun to explore. We wiped a few times but had a blast doing so.

[Rennie.6750]

Don't expect much sympathy here because some white knights will always find a way, but if anything, ANet devs have proven that they're really bad at making combat readable over the years. Like, really, really bad. The most painfully obvious proof is that they're still using the silly thin red line AoE circles or translucent orange circles on top of light brown ground even when they know and are aware of the fact that their combat is usually a visual spam fest. That alone shows how little they care. If they really cared there would be an option to make all circles full and having a few different colors. Blue would be nice.

[Rennie.6750]

> @Ertrak.9506 said:

> Yano... you could actually try and figure out why youre dying...and yano... actually not do that...instead of just complaining and blaming everything else...

>

> But what do i know.

 

The problem is, you can't understand what you couldn't see. There are games with far richer mechanics for more mainstream types of content than this one and they're also viewed as far more accessible because they never feel arbitrarily punishing. Just make tells impossible to miss and then people may start having fun doing more challenging stuff. Believe it or not, many players do rely on peripheral vision not to miss ground AoEs and when they're just orange on top of orange or something barely visible even when you look for it really shows how little care the devs put is in content design.

[Vulf.3098]

We can agree that some of the effects are hard to see but lets not exaggerate and say they are invisible.

[Walhalla.5473]

The only "invisible" mechanic out there is the damage aura from the boss. Everything else is can be seen, somethings are a bit harder to see than others but still, its visible. When I'm tanking VG for example, I'm drowning in player skill effect but I can still see the teleport circles clearly. And as a dps I can also see them, even if they are in the green circles.

 

And if you die due to the damage aura, maybe getting a healer would do the trick.

[Priscitia.4235]

We are also having some people who have a harder time seeing the blue circles at Vale Guardian or to know when to dodge at Gorseval so our Raidlead invented a simple solution: he calls out when to... look out for blue circles or ... dodge! It is maybe a little old school but some raids need special requirements to work for their members and that is okay. Just don't be stubborn and find a solution that works for your people and is not dependent on whether anet agrees or not.

[Rennie.6750]

> @Vulf.3098 said:

> We can agree that some of the effects are hard to see but lets not exaggerate and say they are invisible.

 

Yes. But some things are unnecessarily hard to see. Two simple examples from the bosses I play: The trash mobs aoe in escort are hard to see because they're the same color as most of the ground. Then in Carn there's this giant sweeping strike aoe that has no ground telegraph even though it's covering the entire boss arena. Both do have tells but having subtle ones for important mechanics isn't good design.

[Genesis.5169]

Idk what to tell you, i have no issues avoiding things in a raid. Neither do the people who play i with, this is a personal get better at the game issue here.

[Vulf.3098]

I wouldn't call Cairns orbital sweep subtle because the animation makes it pretty damn clear it affects an extremely large amount of the platform. Pretty much that whole fight is watching his animations.

 

I almost always start that boss first when I make pug groups because it is a clear indicator on peoples skill level and it gives me a good idea on which bosses I will be leading the group into after that for kills.

[Ertrak.9506]

> @Vulf.3098 said:

> I wouldn't call Cairns orbital sweep subtle because the animation makes it pretty kitten clear it affects an extremely large amount of the platform. Pretty much that whole fight is watching his animations.

>

> I almost always start that boss first when I make pug groups because it is a clear indicator on peoples skill level and it gives me a good idea on which bosses I will be leading the group into after that for kills.

 

It is definitely not subtle. People did not dub that attack "the long kitten of justice" for nothing.

[LordOtto.2650]

> @Raguel.9402 said:

> > @Henry.5713 said:

> > You should have tried to figure out Dhuum early last week before there were any guides or videos. Was a blast. Some of us actually enjoy that stuff over simply watching guides or facerolling Open World bosses. Let us have our niche content.

> > Ask for an easy mode if you want. Most don't seem to be able to accept that there is any content in the game that is not specifically designed around their personal liking, so why should you? Just let those of us who enjoy raids have something at the current difficulty or even harder.

>

> This.

>

> The new wing was super fun to explore. We wiped a few times but had a blast doing so.

 

Dhuum is not made for PUG raid teams! End of story, you can't do it without Voice chat, every guild who has done it made it with voice chat, and +16 hour being and playing together that boss! One more boss like this , and PUG raid will collapse! I have +800 li, and I've joined a guild, so in the future I can kill this boss! The mechanics are ok, besides when you transform for that kitten energy ball, to get some energy orbs! Kitten that! How is that your skill, you can't even call that get gut, you can't call it anything, it's made bad, it is bad mechanic! I just really hope that PUG raiding dies, so the people (elitist guilds), who make 1,2k-2k gold realize that nobody cares about raid anymore, and they 100-200 ppl can have their fun, nobody will even pay them anymore!

 

So please Anet, make more idiotic mechanics like this one, make it only for elitist guilds! Please do it so! You will see how Raid will fail like PvP did! You go after idiot elitist every time!

[Daniel.5428]

> @LordOtto.2650 said:

> Dhuum is not made for PUG raid teams! End of story, you can't do it without Voice chat, every guild who has done it made it with voice chat, and +16 hour being and playing together that boss! One more boss like this , and PUG raid will collapse! I have +800 li, and I've joined a guild, so in the future I can kill this boss! The mechanics are ok, besides when you transform for that kitten energy ball, to get some energy orbs! Kitten that! How is that your skill, you can't even call that get gut, you can't call it anything, it's made bad, it is bad mechanic! I just really hope that PUG raiding dies, so the people (elitist guilds), who make 1,2k-2k gold realize that nobody cares about raid anymore, and they 100-200 ppl can have their fun, nobody will even pay them anymore!

> So please Anet, make more idiotic mechanics like this one, make it only for elitist guilds! Please do it so! You will see how Raid will fail like PvP did! You go after idiot elitist every time!

 

I said it before, you said it now and I will say it again gladly. This game was not ready for raids for the following reasons: PVE was never balanced, it was just a big wheel(one class was top, then another, then another and so on). Anet tried to copy the raiding system of other games like WoW and failed badly because the gameplay of the two games are totally different. GW2 never had roles and trinity and overnight mesmer got the tank mark, ranger the healer mark and all other classes got dps mark and fought with a bad balancing system. Raids are no longer about killing a certain boss but about killing that boss as fast as possible and get a new world record. There are boss mechanics who made the fight enjoyable but now all are forgotten, is just spamm skills (look at Gorseval and the useless updrafts, the VG green circle who can be easly ignored by a chrono and soon more will follow). Raids in gw2 have lacking aspects, they are enjoyable for the first weeks, then they become borring. And now they decided to make a challenged wing but not by making it mechanical rich, but by adding rng and stupid controlls (orb controlls are broken, river of souls is just a totally boring event where they added tons of rifts to screw you up, statues are boring too and Dhuum got a tons of mechanics, all at once, no cool phasing like it was with Sabetha or Matthias).

 

 

[maddoctor.2738]

> @LordOtto.2650 said:

> Dhuum is not made for PUG raid teams!

 

It looks like Dhuum is the only Raid boss that is true to the design concept of Raids!

The developers always said that "Some bosses will be doable in pugs, but not all of them". The previous Raids were all doable in pugs with limited coordination required, but it appears that Dhuum is that one boss that is not doable by pugs.

Haven't fought Dhuum yet, but reading all that, I can't wait.

[Raguel.9402]

> @Rennie.6750 said:

> > @Ertrak.9506 said:

> > Yano... you could actually try and figure out why youre dying...and yano... actually not do that...instead of just complaining and blaming everything else...

> >

> > But what do i know.

>

> The problem is, you can't understand what you couldn't see. There are games with far richer mechanics for more mainstream types of content than this one and they're also viewed as far more accessible because they never feel arbitrarily punishing. Just make tells impossible to miss and then people may start having fun doing more challenging stuff. Believe it or not, many players do rely on peripheral vision not to miss ground AoEs and when they're just orange on top of orange or something barely visible even when you look for it really shows how little care the devs put is in content design.

 

Lowering graphics or using effect LOD options helps a lot to be honest. I usually lower my shaders settings for smoother gameplay

[Cyninja.2954]

> @Daniel.5428 said:

> > @LordOtto.2650 said:

> > Dhuum is not made for PUG raid teams! End of story, you can't do it without Voice chat, every guild who has done it made it with voice chat, and +16 hour being and playing together that boss! One more boss like this , and PUG raid will collapse! I have +800 li, and I've joined a guild, so in the future I can kill this boss! The mechanics are ok, besides when you transform for that kitten energy ball, to get some energy orbs! Kitten that! How is that your skill, you can't even call that get gut, you can't call it anything, it's made bad, it is bad mechanic! I just really hope that PUG raiding dies, so the people (elitist guilds), who make 1,2k-2k gold realize that nobody cares about raid anymore, and they 100-200 ppl can have their fun, nobody will even pay them anymore!

> > So please Anet, make more idiotic mechanics like this one, make it only for elitist guilds! Please do it so! You will see how Raid will fail like PvP did! You go after idiot elitist every time!

>

> I said it before, you said it now and I will say it again gladly. This game was not ready for raids for the following reasons: PVE was never balanced, it was just a big wheel(one class was top, then another, then another and so on). Anet tried to copy the raiding system of other games like WoW and failed badly because the gameplay of the two games are totally different. GW2 never had roles and trinity and overnight mesmer got the tank mark, ranger the healer mark and all other classes got dps mark and fought with a bad balancing system. Raids are no longer about killing a certain boss but about killing that boss as fast as possible and get a new world record. There are boss mechanics who made the fight enjoyable but now all are forgotten, is just spamm skills (look at Gorseval and the useless updrafts, the VG green circle who can be easly ignored by a chrono and soon more will follow). Raids in gw2 have lacking aspects, they are enjoyable for the first weeks, then they become borring. And now they decided to make a challenged wing but not by making it mechanical rich, but by adding rng and stupid controlls (orb controlls are broken, river of souls is just a totally boring event where they added tons of rifts to screw you up, statues are boring too and Dhuum got a tons of mechanics, all at once, no cool phasing like it was with Sabetha or Matthias).

>

>

 

Mesmer never became "overnight" the most used tank. People were experimenting with lots of different tanks and some groups still run other tanks in their comps. Same goes for druid which were never taken due to their actual healing ability until recently. Class dps is quite normalized according to latest benchmarks and it's more an issue of how difficult different classes are and which build brings the best utility or easy of use to certain boss fights (which shows how diverse the different bosses are).

 

Most raid groups are more concerned with clearing a wing than setting a new speed record. Mechanical skips, when possible, open different ways to overcome challenges and usually increase the required performance. Raids becoming boring after a few weeks is a purely subjective statement from you. I know tons of people who are still constantly raiding weekly ever since raids were added.

 

Wing 5 has different mechanics which need to be overcome. This has nothing to do with rng. Cleared boss 1 this week after 20 minutes (3rd try) with a complete PUG group. If rng is messing you up on wing 5 boss 1, you made mistakes along the way (or someone in your group did).

 

I'm going to assume the only other MMO you've played is WoW and you came directly from there to GW2 while taking a break from Blizzards game due to massive content drought. No other way to explain your not well thought through comment about where raids come from.

 

You are mixing and matching behavior of static groups and PUGs as though these groups approaches to raids were one and the same. Absolute nonsense.

[LordOtto.2650]

So, dhuum needs energy ball control, and you say that that is skill related to gw2?! The entire game rely on that mechanic, and wow, so hard boss, when your real skill needed is the same as other raid bosses, kite, dps, tank, and place markings! So we basically rely on 3 people, who can do energy ball, who don't fail the hole 10 minutes game, and that is so cool?! It is cool, when you are in a guild, 3-4 people learns it after 100 wipes, and likes it too, 'cause I hate it and never will do it, and me and my guild will rely on those 3-4 people to do a "hard" boss kill! When this boss isn't hard at all, it's hard because of that green mechanic, what it shouldn't be in the game!

[Rennie.6750]

> @Raguel.9402 said:

> > @Rennie.6750 said:

> > > @Ertrak.9506 said:

> > > Yano... you could actually try and figure out why youre dying...and yano... actually not do that...instead of just complaining and blaming everything else...

> > >

> > > But what do i know.

> >

> > The problem is, you can't understand what you couldn't see. There are games with far richer mechanics for more mainstream types of content than this one and they're also viewed as far more accessible because they never feel arbitrarily punishing. Just make tells impossible to miss and then people may start having fun doing more challenging stuff. Believe it or not, many players do rely on peripheral vision not to miss ground AoEs and when they're just orange on top of orange or something barely visible even when you look for it really shows how little care the devs put is in content design.

>

> Lowering graphics or using effect LOD options helps a lot to be honest. I usually lower my shaders settings for smoother gameplay

 

I tried many settings and ultimately the game always looks like the aborted child of Hiroshima and a Christmas tree when there are more than 5 players around.

[Cyninja.2954]

> @LordOtto.2650 said:

> So, dhuum needs energy ball control, and you say that that is skill related to gw2?! The entire game rely on that mechanic, and wow, so hard boss, when your real skill needed is the same as other raid bosses, kite, dps, tank, and place markings! So we basically rely on 3 people, who can do energy ball, who don't fail the hole 10 minutes game, and that is so cool?! It is cool, when you are in a guild, 3-4 people learns it after 100 wipes, and likes it too, 'cause I hate it and never will do it, and me and my guild will rely on those 3-4 people to do a "hard" boss kill! When this boss isn't hard at all, it's hard because of that green mechanic, what it shouldn't be in the game!

 

Most raid fights rely on select members contributing more than others or having to do extra work. Be it your tank at VG, Gore, KC, Xera or Deimos, or your druid orb kiting at KC, your damage dealers eating shrooms at Sloth or hand kiting at Deimos. Any chrono that distorts attacks, while providing alacrity and quickness uptime while tanking. Or better yet, 2 tanks having to switch agro on boss 1 of wing 5. Having 3 people in a raid have to deal with a new mechanic is nothing insane or never heard of. It's been done in other bosses before.

 

You on the other hand are expecting farm status for a boss that's not even out for 2 weeks. I'm not sure you are the most competent or objective person to have a discussion about balance with.

[LordOtto.2650]

> @Cyninja.2954 said:

> > @LordOtto.2650 said:

> > So, dhuum needs energy ball control, and you say that that is skill related to gw2?! The entire game rely on that mechanic, and wow, so hard boss, when your real skill needed is the same as other raid bosses, kite, dps, tank, and place markings! So we basically rely on 3 people, who can do energy ball, who don't fail the hole 10 minutes game, and that is so cool?! It is cool, when you are in a guild, 3-4 people learns it after 100 wipes, and likes it too, 'cause I hate it and never will do it, and me and my guild will rely on those 3-4 people to do a "hard" boss kill! When this boss isn't hard at all, it's hard because of that green mechanic, what it shouldn't be in the game!

>

> Most raid fights rely on select members contributing more than others or having to do extra work. Be it your tank at VG, Gore, KC, Xera or Deimos, or your druid orb kiting at KC, your damage dealers eating shrooms at Sloth or hand kiting at Deimos. Any chrono that distorts attacks, while providing alacrity and quickness uptime while tanking. Or better yet, 2 tanks having to switch agro on boss 1 of wing 5. Having 3 people in a raid have to deal with a new mechanic is nothing insane or never heard of. It's been done in other bosses before.

>

> You on the other hand are expecting farm status for a boss that's not even out for 2 weeks. I'm not sure you are the most competent or objective person to have a discussion about balance with.

 

 

I was the first ones to make w5b1-3 with pugs, to do cm, I was the first one in pugs to w4 all bosses with cm, I was the first one to teach the most pugs how to do w4 cm Moorsat! I was commander, and I am still, but now I will sit down, do with my guild, and never, ever do it with PUG's this Dhuum boss!

I was the one who thought fractal level 40 back then how it's playable!

After 2-3 months we will see the kill rate, ok?!

So don't think that I can't make a difference in this game, or I don't understand the balance here!

 

 

[Linken.6345]

> @Ertrak.9506 said:

> > @Vulf.3098 said:

> > I wouldn't call Cairns orbital sweep subtle because the animation makes it pretty kitten clear it affects an extremely large amount of the platform. Pretty much that whole fight is watching his animations.

> >

> > I almost always start that boss first when I make pug groups because it is a clear indicator on peoples skill level and it gives me a good idea on which bosses I will be leading the group into after that for kills.

>

> It is definitely not subtle. People did not dub that attack "the long kitten of justice" for nothing.

 

Are we talking the attack were cairn slam down his arm and spins it around the floor?

If so how hard is it so see really? he plop down his arm then you dodge clockwise into his arm when it move towards you.

 

[Linken.6345]

> @LordOtto.2650 said:

> So, dhuum needs energy ball control, and you say that that is skill related to gw2?! The entire game rely on that mechanic, and wow, so hard boss, when your real skill needed is the same as other raid bosses, kite, dps, tank, and place markings! So we basically rely on 3 people, who can do energy ball, who don't fail the hole 10 minutes game, and that is so cool?! It is cool, when you are in a guild, 3-4 people learns it after 100 wipes, and likes it too, 'cause I hate it and never will do it, and me and my guild will rely on those 3-4 people to do a "hard" boss kill! When this boss isn't hard at all, it's hard because of that green mechanic, what it shouldn't be in the game!

 

Its not like this wasent used before hand kiter at deimos anyone?

most pugs still use 4-5 people to run to green on vg.

Fire kiter at sab?

Mushroom eaters at sloth?

[Chris McSwag.4683]

> @LordOtto.2650 said:

> So, dhuum needs energy ball control, and you say that that is skill related to gw2?! The entire game rely on that mechanic, and wow, so hard boss, when your real skill needed is the same as other raid bosses, kite, dps, tank, and place markings! So we basically rely on 3 people, who can do energy ball, who don't fail the hole 10 minutes game, and that is so cool?! It is cool, when you are in a guild, 3-4 people learns it after 100 wipes, and likes it too, 'cause I hate it and never will do it, and me and my guild will rely on those 3-4 people to do a "hard" boss kill! When this boss isn't hard at all, it's hard because of that green mechanic, what it shouldn't be in the game!

 

You’re one special whining snowflake aren’t you. Dhuum also relies on the kites, on people to explode in proper places, correct positioning for the soul separation and a multitude of other things. While green is the only “one shot”, there is way more mechanics to deal with. I get it, you want the kill now and don’t have the group or skill for it atm, but this whining of yours is getting annoying