PvP Discussion: Rewards

[sephiroth.4217]

> @"Ben Phongluangtham.1065" said:

 

> People need to be rewarded for their time, even if they weren't successful. And it makes the process of learning the game mode more rewarding.

 

I'd like PIPS in unranked please so I can farm ascended gear with friends and guildies for the reasons you just said here, even if it's a reduced amount.

 

also any thought on new achievements...? Condensed achievements that is.

EG: Completed all Profession titles (champion Hunter, Champion Genius and so on) and get a title to reflect that.

 

[Daishi.6027]

> @"sephiroth.4217" said:

> > @"Ben Phongluangtham.1065" said:

>

> > People need to be rewarded for their time, even if they weren't successful. And it makes the process of learning the game mode more rewarding.

>

> I'd like PIPS in unranked please so I can farm ascended gear with friends and guildies for the reasons you just said here, even if it's a reduced amount.

>

> also any thought on new achievements...? Condensed achievements that is.

> EG: Completed all Profession titles (champion Hunter, Champion Genius and so on) and get a title to reflect that.

>

 

Recently a dev pointed out the numbers for how popular ranked was compared to unranked.

I would be very interested to see A-net's response if it was no longer the case with the carrot being split between both.

 

PvErs will use Unranked as an alternative to crafting for ascended which might be an issue for A-net, but at the same time it's a better way to introduce people to PvP in a less hostile to perform environment... At the same time it may also encourage AFKers since the fights don't mean anything.

[xp eke xp.6724]

What about reward tracks that are only active as long your on the different divisions.

If you fall out the track is inactive.

 

On that way we will have new motivations.

 

On that step it makes sense to give new items/ emotes/ skins and more. But if everyone can get the same thing without showing more skills it will demotivate players. Noone would have something against new backskins on the new condition. If it's nearly impossible for a bad player, try to make it possible on low division, but you have to combinate more stuff so it least lidle to far longer-> at end he can get it but there are new stuff, so good players feel better on their new stuff.

[Ithilwen.1529]

Make The Ascension available via unranked or off-season play. I'd be foolish to jump into ranked games on unfamiliar classes. This would also be a disservice to my teammates since I would be more-or-less throwing games.

 

You could even remind the PvE types that The Ascension is still available.. it might even attract a few.

[Malediktus.9250]

> @"Ben Phongluangtham.1065" said:

> > @"Aza.2105" said:

> > > @"Ben Phongluangtham.1065" said:

> >

> > > **PvP Armor set 2.5**

> > > We are working on an enhanced version of the Glorious armor. No dates on this yet, as it’s still a ways out. We’re aiming for 2 tiers. Tier 1 for Leagues and tier 2 for Tournament prizes.

> >

> > What happens to those who have legendary armors already? They don't get the new skin?

>

> The set isn't going to be legendary, though we may make it upgradable to legendary. Current plan is to have tier 1 be on the league armor vendor and tier 2 be rewards for monthly tournaments.

Is it possible to finally add the reward track (or an other way) to get the Mini Turai Ossa? It has been sitting in the wardrobe ever since the stronghold minis have been introduced with no way to earn this one. I guess the reward track for it was forgotten or scrapped

[Leodon.1564]

Anet needs to stop rewarding PVE items for PVP.

 

The motivation for true PVPers is not some PVE items but glory, recognition, and the excitement of a good fight against a worthy adversary that I recognize. (If I wanted PVE items, I'd play the PVE aspect of the game.)

 

All you guys are doing is diluting the PVP mode and artificially inflating the population with PVE players who have no desire to PVP. In the long-run, you are going to drive out the PVP players who get frustrated dealing with all of the PVE players joining games who are just there to milk the system for PVE rewards (AFK, win trading, etc).

 

Edit: Part of the reason why PVP/WVW is dead is because Anet doesn't understand the motivations behind why people play these modes. You guys are taking things that work for PVE and trying to apply it to PVP/WVW.

[Aza.2105]

> @"Leodon.1564" said:

> Anet needs to stop rewarding PVE items for PVP.

>

> The motivation for true PVPers is not some PVE items but glory, recognition, and the excitement of a good fight against a worthy adversary that I recognize. (If I wanted PVE items, I'd play the PVE aspect of the game.)

>

> All you guys are doing is diluting the PVP mode and artificially inflating the population with PVE players who have no desire to PVP. In the long-run, you are going to drive out the PVP players who get frustrated dealing with all of the PVE players joining games who are just there to milk the system for PVE rewards (AFK, win trading, etc).

>

> Edit: Part of the reason why PVP/WVW is dead is because Anet doesn't understand the motivations behind why people play these modes. You guys are taking things that work for PVE and trying to apply it to PVP/WVW.

 

WvW/Pvp is dead because of balance problems not rewards. You keep saying what pvpers don't want, but you really speak for yourself and probably a minority.

[Leodon.1564]

> @"Aza.2105" said:

> > @"Leodon.1564" said:

> > Anet needs to stop rewarding PVE items for PVP.

> >

> > The motivation for true PVPers is not some PVE items but glory, recognition, and the excitement of a good fight against a worthy adversary that I recognize. (If I wanted PVE items, I'd play the PVE aspect of the game.)

> >

> > All you guys are doing is diluting the PVP mode and artificially inflating the population with PVE players who have no desire to PVP. In the long-run, you are going to drive out the PVP players who get frustrated dealing with all of the PVE players joining games who are just there to milk the system for PVE rewards (AFK, win trading, etc).

> >

> > Edit: Part of the reason why PVP/WVW is dead is because Anet doesn't understand the motivations behind why people play these modes. You guys are taking things that work for PVE and trying to apply it to PVP/WVW.

>

> WvW/Pvp is dead because of balance problems not rewards. You keep saying what pvpers don't want, but you really speak for yourself and probably a minority.

 

All I can do is speak for myself. Balance is a myth and not something Anet has the man power to do in a satisfactory way for the long-haul. Do you really think things are going to get better as the PVP population declines and we keep introducing new stuff to the game that makes it more difficult to balance as time goes by? If you feel balance is the problem, then good luck with that. Things are going to get worse; not better IMO. The current PVP model is slowly bleeding out and will eventually die unless something is done to stop the bleeding and reverse course.

 

I do believe there is an important element missing from Anet's business model and that is the psychology behind what drives players to PVP. There are plenty of examples of PVP games where people PVP because its enjoyable and not because they are rewarded with something. I'm not against rewards but if obtaining that reward is the main motivating factor in a PVP mode, then you are going to have players doing things (that may not necessarily involve PVPing) to obtain the reward and just the reward. Once the reward is obtained, they stop playing until the next reward comes out. This is just a PVE model, wrapped in a PVP setting in name only.

 

Edit: Any old school WoW players remember the Hillsbrad Foothill PVP battles? This zone wasn't anything special but took on legendary status because of the organic way in which PVP played out in this zone regardless of the server you played on. No PVE rewards were ever involved; just two opposing players duking it out that would organically turn into a sprawling battle between hordes of players lasting hours/days. I don't remember any of the loot that I acquired during my 5 years playing WoW but I will remember those Tauren Hills/Southshore battles until the day I die and they were some of the best times I had playing that game.

 

I don't know if Anet understands or knows how to create an environment that fosters PVP. A lot of their decisions appear to be made to address surface level stuff or symptoms instead of getting to the root of the problem. Or maybe, they simply don't care who joins PVP games, whether it be PVErs or PVPers.

[shadowpass.4236]

> @"Ithilwen.1529" said:

> Make The Ascension available via unranked or off-season play. I'd be foolish to jump into ranked games on unfamiliar classes. This would also be a disservice to my teammates since I would be more-or-less throwing games.

>

> You could even remind the PvE types that The Ascension is still available.. it might even attract a few.

 

Yes, let's make everything available to everyone. I think we need to cater more towards the lowest skill bracket because the most casual game is the best game.

 

Yes, let's also bring more PvErs into PvP. That worked out really well the last time and definitely didn't lower match quality with the flood of people who had no idea how to PvP.

[Ithilwen.1529]

> @"shadowpass.4236" said:

> > @"Ithilwen.1529" said:

> > Make The Ascension available via unranked or off-season play. I'd be foolish to jump into ranked games on unfamiliar classes. This would also be a disservice to my teammates since I would be more-or-less throwing games.

> >

> > You could even remind the PvE types that The Ascension is still available.. it might even attract a few.

>

> Yes, let's make everything available to everyone. I think we need to cater more towards the lowest skill bracket because the most casual game is the best game.

>

> Yes, let's also bring more PvErs into PvP. That worked out really well the last time and definitely didn't lower match quality with the flood of people who had no idea how to PvP.

 

Match quality wasn't lowered by having more people. it was lowered by deliberately unbalanced matches (There is no question that they did so, they announced it. )

 

I once told the Sail Commodore at our local club "It's really great that sailor X is super competitive and practically always wins. Still it won't do him much good to be champ when there's no one left to race against." That class is no longer sailed at the club, for lack of interest. Everyone knew who was going to win and people simply moved on.

 

**Social Darwinism is all well and good in theory.. but it doesn't work in the real world.** The reality is that this is a game.. if it's not fun, people won't play.

[Ithilwen.1529]

> @"Ben Phongluangtham.1065" said:

> > @"Aza.2105" said:

> > > @"Ben Phongluangtham.1065" said:

> >

> > > **PvP Armor set 2.5**

> > > We are working on an enhanced version of the Glorious armor. No dates on this yet, as it’s still a ways out. We’re aiming for 2 tiers. Tier 1 for Leagues and tier 2 for Tournament prizes.

> >

> > What happens to those who have legendary armors already? They don't get the new skin?

>

> The set isn't going to be legendary, though we may make it upgradable to legendary. Current plan is to have tier 1 be on the league armor vendor and tier 2 be rewards for monthly tournaments.

 

This is a serious mistake. It means that only a very select group will have any chance of obtaining t2 armor. This will not attract people to ATs. It is more likely to alienate people.

[Whitworth.7259]

> @"Ben Phongluangtham.1065" said:

> > @"Aza.2105" said:

> > > @"Ben Phongluangtham.1065" said:

> >

> > > **PvP Armor set 2.5**

> > > We are working on an enhanced version of the Glorious armor. No dates on this yet, as it’s still a ways out. We’re aiming for 2 tiers. Tier 1 for Leagues and tier 2 for Tournament prizes.

> >

> > What happens to those who have legendary armors already? They don't get the new skin?

>

> The set isn't going to be legendary, though we may make it upgradable to legendary. Current plan is to have tier 1 be on the league armor vendor and tier 2 be rewards for monthly tournaments.

 

Oh man, you might as well rename the Tier 2 armour as 'r55 armour' on EU, as that's the only ones that'll be wearing it.

[Pinkunicorn of Dethecus.32]

> @"Ben Phongluangtham.1065" said:

> > @nekretaal.6485 said:

> > Could we get map currencies (eg) ley line crystals from the heart of magnuma reward track?

>

> I'll look into it.

 

Along these lines, it would be really nice (and I think fitting) if we could also get outdated reward tracks to be retrofitted with choice-chests at the end, much like the LS3/LS4 ones were. E.g., BSF gives you a choice of Blood Rubies or the headgear from that episode; would be great if say, Maguuma Wastes gave you the choice of all of those insects OR a choice of giant bags of 50-100 Bandit Crests or Geodes. An alternative here would be an NPC that exchanges those insects or unidentified insects for geodes/bandit crests in either heart of the mists or Dry Top/Silverwastes, Bandit Crests would be an option since the Maguuma Wastes is supposed to be a cover-all w/ Silverwastes track not being repeatable.

 

Additionally, Desert Armor Box could give Ley-Infused Sands or Brandsparks or Elegy Mosaics, Heart of Maguuma could give choice of Crystalline Ore/Ingots, Amalgamated Gemstones, Airship Parts, Aurillium, Ley-Line Crystals.

 

I really want to see Vanilla Region tracks bumped up since those have always been horribly underwhelming, but I honestly can't think of something valuable to put in them that would be fitting.

 

Dungeon tracks could have an option for additional tokens out of the armor boxes at the end for once you run out of armor choices.

 

I'd like to see the Halloween Pail get an option for something other than the 20-slot bag...or maybe a path to upgrade the 20-slot to higher via similar recipes? Maybe that isn't the purview of a pvp reward track though, it would be fun. Something other than just a bag as an option, since the Labrynthe is insanely profitable compared to pvp, it makes no sense to pvp during it instead of zerging mindlessly around the Lab. Speaking of festival ones, the end-chest for SAB is really underwhelming in general.

 

Just some general thoughts.

[Ralkuth.1456]

Since I bought HoT and PoF, I've had very little time to play and whatever moment I have, I would dive in to enjoy PvP. The dailies and PvP rewards mean a lot to me and they allow me not to worry about ascended crafting and gathering when I occasionally PvE and see what the world has become. (I still remember the shock when I found Lion's Arch blown up after exiting Heart of the Mists.)

 

Red vs Blue for PvP teams is so 2012 though. Can we have Orange vs Cyan? Pink vs Green? Yellow vs Purple? Would increase the value of those colour-changing armours. Also, more wacky team names.

 

PvP-exclusive items don't have to be new, and most players won't desire top-team rewards. Make tracks for hard-to-get cosmetics from previous expansions, providing tokens or gear pieces.

[MisterOiZo.4359]

Can you also reward us with a better PvP matchmaking system and a scoring system that relies more on personal performance as well ?

[Neeman Oria.7504]

> @"Ben Phongluangtham.1065" said:

> > @"Kain Francois.4328" said:

> > Question: Will the Glorious Armor be left alone in regards to crafting a Legendary PvP Helmet? Will the recipe change?

> >

> > Ps. Just want to say that the weapon set changing on based on your team color is one of the best ideas you've made in awhile.

> >

>

> The recipes for upgrading the PvP Ascended armor into legendary will remain the same. Though, new recipes for upgrading the new armors, when they are done, may be added. We haven't decided this fully yet.

 

This is unfortunate is there is a new recipe. I was making the current PvP legendary armor, when news came of a new skin. I am hoping the new armor, if upgradeable, would be the same MF recipe.

[Tyson.5160]

> @"Ben Phongluangtham.1065" said:

> > @nekretaal.6485 said:

> > Could pvp legendary armor be added to count towards the “get 18 pieces of legendary armor” achievement?

>

> It not counting was actually one of the ways McKenna and I were able to get it approved for PvP and WvW.

 

To not encroach on the raid achievement for the armor. Could a new pvp and wvw achievement be added for Legendary armor?

[Tyson.5160]

> @"Pinkunicorn of Dethecus.3217" said:

> > @Kapax.3801 said:

> > Two new reward routes:

> > **Fractal reward route**

> > 3 chests that have rewards from T1 to T3

> > Final Chest, rewards of T4 and a weapon of fractals (of the normal ones) to choose from. Repeat once a week.

> >

> > And here many will jump to the jugular.

> > **Raid reward route**

> > repeatable once a week, that each week is from a different wing (of the 5 that there is currently)

> > The reward can be items of the raids and coins of the same.

> > The final chest instead of containing clovers, could have 2 Legendary Insights.

> >

> > More dungeon reward routes available, at least 3 or 4 every 2 weeks.

>

> I really, really don't think that's a good thing for the game. I wouldn't want raiders to get Ardent Glorious or Sublime Mistforged (or one of these newly-mentioned Obsidian weapons) for killing one of their bosses.

 

I agree, keep raid, pvp, WvW rewards separate and unique.

[Tyson.5160]

> @"cptaylor.2670" said:

> > @"Razor.6392" said:

> > Give the new looks (pvp 2.5) to the legendary armor.

> >

> > Also, lower pip amount on defeats by 33%, and increase it on wins by 40%

>

> Agreed. Would be nice if you would give the new pvp look to the legendary armor so as not to have to farm ANOTHER set of ascended gear when some of us have already farmed a set to convert to legendary.

 

I agree with this as well as I farmed my butt off for those ascended shards for the PvP Legendary Armor, which are probably would be the same cost as the 2.5 skin anyhow.

[FrizzFreston.5290]

> @"Ithilwen.1529" said:

> > @"shadowpass.4236" said:

> > > @"Ithilwen.1529" said:

> > > Make The Ascension available via unranked or off-season play. I'd be foolish to jump into ranked games on unfamiliar classes. This would also be a disservice to my teammates since I would be more-or-less throwing games.

> > >

> > > You could even remind the PvE types that The Ascension is still available.. it might even attract a few.

> >

> > Yes, let's make everything available to everyone. I think we need to cater more towards the lowest skill bracket because the most casual game is the best game.

> >

> > Yes, let's also bring more PvErs into PvP. That worked out really well the last time and definitely didn't lower match quality with the flood of people who had no idea how to PvP.

>

> Match quality wasn't lowered by having more people. it was lowered by deliberately unbalanced matches (There is no question that they did so, they announced it. )

>

> I once told the Sail Commodore at our local club "It's really great that sailor X is super competitive and practically always wins. Still it won't do him much good to be champ when there's no one left to race against." That class is no longer sailed at the club, for lack of interest. Everyone knew who was going to win and people simply moved on.

>

> **Social Darwinism is all well and good in theory.. but it doesn't work in the real world.** The reality is that this is a game.. if it's not fun, people won't play.

 

As I see it, one reward doesnt dictate whether the game is fun. Changing previous rewards seems less advantageous than implementing new ones tailored to make the game fun for those who dont like that specific competitive element.

 

Personally I think that playing unfamiliar classes will greatly help you become a better player. And that mastering them to the point that you have won a few matches with them is only logical in the eyes of a legendary reward.

 

Im not against more unique rewards in off season ranked or unranked. But the ascension specifically doesnt fit that particular spot.

[Gwaihir.1745]

AT gating just sounds bad.

[Vieux P.1238]

Reward Tracks is not going to bring back players. That has been proven over & over every time Anet changed or added to the reward track. But something new just happen this last patch showing what direction to take. The Free Arena is basically showing us that we need new innovative maps that is not conquest. I been seeing more & more ppl hangning out in the Free Arena more then Q'uing for a match. That says a lot about players position on what they feel like playing. Reward track is just a band aid that should only be implemented in the end. Not before addressing the real problem.

[Malediktus.9250]

> @"Gwaihir.1745" said:

> AT gating just sounds bad.

 

Yes, it is. Always the same people winning. Even when they are punished for something (dishonor, suspension) they just win on alts or other people accounts

 

Imagine the outrage if top 5 achievement leaderboards would get unique stuff or the best raid squad. But for some reason it is ok for a tiny circle of pvp players to get unique stuff

[Xtrverz.4069]

> @"Ziooo.8932" said:

> > @"Ben Phongluangtham.1065" said:

> > The set isn't going to be legendary, though we may make it upgradable to legendary. Current plan is to have tier 1 be on the league armor vendor and tier 2 be rewards for monthly tournaments.

>

> Im sorry for being harsh here, but if the tier 2 is the flashy one similar to wvw rank 2k and you decide to tie it to the monthly ats its dead content from day one to me, and the rest of the pvp community that dont participante. If you even go as far as putting it exclusively to the top 4 teams...well, im certain most people wont enjoy that.

>

> You already distribute tens of thousands of gold, exclusive titles and unique gizmos monthly, isnt that enough? I wonder how many different people have one of the gizmos, since its always the same ones that seem to win monthly ats.

>

> Could be something as cross platinum division or top 250 once and have a rank of 150? Maybe more idk...

 

I believe 16 different people have the gizmos on NA (excluding the alt accounts) and maybe 12 on EU?

[Ziooo.8932]

> @"Xtrverz.4069" said:

> > @"Ziooo.8932" said:

>>I wonder how many different people have one of the gizmos, since its always the same ones that seem to win monthly ats.

>

> I believe 16 different people have the gizmos on NA (excluding the alt accounts) and maybe 12 on EU?

 

Jesus really? I actually believe these numbers based on the statues in the lobby. Next month will be the last to receive a new gizmo and it seems that the ones getting them are always the same. Good for them i guess...