Gliding and Mounts and Maps

[Link.1049]

Was thinking more using raptors to get over ravines... but good for you for thinking :)

[Pixlboy.5296]

Hmm permanent WvW mounts in the form we know for PvE is a bad idea period.

 

But what do you think guys think about mount that needs resources to make and it's similar to mobile siege unit?

I'm talking about Siege Devourers. Not like Siege Golem that is essentially a suit but a mount you can ride (only picked up in Garrison for example) , and would move and operate like one. Mounts also have skills so it wouldn't be a glorified speed boost.

 

Or a mount that temporary gives you this massive speed boost and has a skills to engage combat.

 

Another idea is riding dolyaks to transport resources, directly to spot you want, ignoring normal routes.

 

These are just loose thoughts, but I think you could somehow implement mount system and feel to WvW. Just not in form we know from PvE.

It would also needs a huge map change so it's much more complicated.

Overall I guess that would require too much resources from Anet to make such massive changes to this stagnating game mode.

[Strider Pj.2193]

There are ways mounts could be added without being game breaking, however, it seems a lot of the ideas are ways to just get them in.

 

I don't want to add something in just to say 'Oh! We have mounts!'

 

Anything added needs to offer a sensible strategic benefit, without being mode breaking. If that would be the guiding principle for all changes, the mode would benefit.

[Swamurabi.7890]

> @"X T D.6458" said:

> > @"Raymond Lukes.6305" said:

>

>

> > I had this issue a lot before I started playing on the desert map more regularly. The Map is defiantly less "run in a line to where I want to go" then the other maps but after playing on it a bit it's not as bad as I originally thought it was.

>

> This is kind of a double edged sword when it comes to map design for WvW/PvP. While it is nice to add some variety and interesting mechanics, this can often times add frustration to players. One of the biggest annoyances with DBL is that it often feels like we have to fight the terrain before actually getting to fight players.

>

> Now if you port to DBL, and need to run to a keep that is under attack to defend it...do you want a bunch of people scattered everywhere, zig-zaging all over the place, waiting for everyone to gather up so you can start fighting, and losing valuable time for the sake of aesthetics.

>

> Having the attitude that well people will like it eventually is not a good selling point...first impressions matter a great deal. And although many will give a second chance, the frustration and distaste has already set in and for some people no matter what changes and improvements are made it will not change their minds.

>

> My guild almost always raids on DBL, I do a good amount of solo runs on it as well. But I had such a hatred for the map right from the start, that no matter what, it will never be a good map to me because of its fatal design flaws. It has only become...more manageable to me...but not really fun. I appreciate all the changes and improvements that were implemented but the essential issues are still present.

 

The other main issue with DBL is that the ZvZ fights only happen inside structures or very close to structures. You never see orange swords out in "no man's land" like you do in EBG and ABL. I wonder if orange swords are something that can be tracked, like their frequency, duration, location for each map. There's a lot of "fight" oriented guilds that all flock to the orange swords on a map. On ABL you can get to the action quicker as a group or you can place yourselves in an open area where you know you will see the enemy. DBL just has too many choke paths to be fun for ZvZ combat so you end up leaving smaller squads to patrol the map.

[BlazeQ.1095]

I love DBL, But I really hope for use of mounts on it at some point. I know its probably not the popular opinion but it would make roaming more fun.

[Malerian.8435]

I really use to hate the Red BL. I was pissed when it first was released as the new WvW map! To the point I just did no go there unless my guild was rallying there!! But I came to understand how to get around on this map. It can be tricky, and there is more of a possibility of being spotted by enemies on thus map as it has some very wide open parts. But if you learn all the different paths and choke points it can be a very fun experience running around this map. Also makes for some fantastic fights, and allows for some unique strategies for those fights!

 

Still waiting for my underwater map! It may never happen, but a guy can dream lol!

[Dukotje.4382]

> @Link.1049 said:

> I've never understood the hate for the desert maps. The center needed reworked... but the overall design was cool.. I love the slot canyon part in particular.

 

i don't like the dbl map at all. for the following reasons:

1. once something is contested, its almost impossible to reach for it to contest/defend it. it takes too long to run to lets say south east tower, before it's already flipped by the enemy.

2. navigating through the fire keep is a pain in the ass. either run in circles trying to get to the top or run around cliffs and high places to be able to use a slope. its too much.

3. No strategic positions. Each tower and even camp have stategic purposes on the ABL. briar gives you the oppertunity to siege bay, were watercamp gives you to possibility to treb down the Hills outer, without being under constant siege preasure. Northwest and east towers give you a clean way to break through the outer of Garrison. controlling objectives wasn't only points based, it gave you the ability to protect other objects even better.

4. fire and airkeep bosses. They have too much stuns/CC oppertunities. While the firekeep lord is avoidable with dodges or stability, the circle that freaking bird drops is impossible to get out from without a teleport. no dodge/stunbreak combi works on that stupid shit.

5. again, the terrain. its massive, too many slopes, stairways you need to traverse and its generally too big for this type of game play. solo roaming on that map could lead to not finding anyone for 15 minutes looking for fights.

 

so there you have my reasons for disliking the DBL. If anet would make a new map, i hope they actually listen to the community and not only the PPT ~prostitutes~ that state their opinion

[primatos.5413]

> @"Raymond Lukes.6305" said:

> > @diamondgirl.6315 said:

> > The issue comes with trying to find other players. It's not fun to me to try to join a group and have the mini map be useless because they are five hundred feet above me or on the other side of a wall that extends to a canyon that has one way out and it points in the wrong direction, etc.

> I had this issue a lot before I started playing on the desert map more regularly. The Map is defiantly less "run in a line to where I want to go" then the other maps but after playing on it a bit it's not as bad as I originally thought it was.

> > @diamondgirl.6315 said:

> > The Desert BL becomes more about managing routes than fighting the other team.

> I think this can be a positive thing for smaller groups getting advantage on a bigger group better positioning and use of gliding can give a smaller squad a good advantage. Again I think that comes with a deeper familiarity of the map.

>

 

is it me or is he dodging the question if mounts will be available in wvw ? So again we will have to guess.. let´s see ...

The gave us gliding in wvw ~2 years after HoT release and some weeks before next exp release .. would bet they just did because mounts won´t be available in wvw but now they can say : hey we gave you something.. why are u still asking for more ?

He did not answer the question because he is told to be careful and not start any trouble before release i think.. at least there will be wvw players buying it and hoping for mounts in wvw? :)

[Arcaedus.7290]

Are mounts really such a bad idea for wvw? Many of the exploitable things about mounts could be worked around:

 

* Permanent +33% movement speed when out of combat? Not a problem. You'll still be out-paced by a good Daredevil. This will only be a good thing.

* Mount skills: This is the biggest point of contention in my opinion. The mount skills could be disabled altogether, or it could be set such that a nerfed version of only one mount skill (raptor's leap) exists and is available for players. Another possible fix is to make mount skills unavailable when in enemy territories.

* When struck while mounted: This would have to be changed from how it works in pve. Mounted movement shouldn't be available in combat so even a single strike should dismount you.

* Add a cast time to summon mount: It can be used as less of a defensive or combat-affecting mechanic this way.

 

I'm personally in favor of having a nerfed mount (maybe everyone gets a wvw-only dolyak as a mout? :D) that is extraordinarily useful when out of combat and trying to navigate the map.

[Stand The Wall.6987]

so what about the fact that gliding into towers promotes siege wars and destroys any advantage the attacker would gain?

or that on ebg red, green, and blue can glide into 2,1, and 0 towers respectively?

or that defending hills is now more important than bay since you can glide into set?

dunno bout dbl but I bet there are some funny things going on there too.

 

basically I think gliding into towers is pretty lame.

[GDchiaScrub.3241]

To the OP. There is indeed a golden structure going unused in DBL, however I don't think turning that into Stonemist Castle will help the map. Especially true considering 3 teams fully colliding creates unbearable lag. (It should be noted the mega laser event that was there originally created lag on its own). As far as Mounts and Gliding, it is readily apparent maps didn't have some of that in mind. Like I think the bunny mount would be able to jump over all walls (hilarious if true).

[Link.1049]

> @"Stand The Wall.6987" said:

> so what about the fact that gliding into towers promotes siege wars and destroys any advantage the attacker would gain?

> or that on ebg red, green, and blue can glide into 2,1, and 0 towers respectively?

> or that defending hills is now more important than bay since you can glide into set?

> dunno bout dbl but I bet there are some funny things going on there too.

>

> basically I think gliding into towers is pretty lame.

 

How can you glide into SET if you don't own it? How is this different than before when you'd just dodgeroll in?

[Stand The Wall.6987]

> @Link.1049 said:

> How can you glide into SET if you don't own it? How is this different than before when you'd just dodgeroll in?

 

well you cant that's why I said defend.

dodge rolling only works if they don't see you coming, and even then you gotta have some sort of insurance policy (port).

[Deniara Devious.3948]

I have thousands of hours invested in WvWvW. I still utterly hate the Desert borderland. Yes, the gliding made it more bearable, but I would still rather have 3 Alpine borders than the horrible red DBL. The towers still have no purpose. The keeps and towers are still way too big inside.

 

Desert BL looks ugly and it is full of annoying details like some small stones, which can stop your running. The Earth keep is designed in incredibly stupid way from defender's point of view and earth keep is also the easiest keep to solo (capture solo). Fire keep is the 2nd easiest to solo. I find the air keep the hardest to solo, because of the lord. All towers are soloable with the necro tower probably the hardest, depending on your build.

 

Please remove Desert borderland from the rotation. It has less players and kills than the other maps,. which is an obvious sign that it is not just my personal opinion. The majority of core WvWvW players don't like desert map. Make it into a pve map!

 

[KeyOrion.9506]

If I wanted to Joust, I would have asked for an Ostrich as a mount.

[Lowen.7109]

Mounts in wvw could be fun and interesting, but would need tweaking. As someone said before, a cast-bar to activate it is a good idea, and drops you down in combat. I imagine this mostly as a catchup mechanic to get you to fights faster. Possible tweaks:

 

Bunny: Its long ears allows you to see enemies from further away (puts dots on your minimap when they are within some reasonable range - not map-wide)

Jackal: Its pack nature grants a small extra runspeed advantage that caps out when around 5 other players, and reduces to 0 advantage at 10 players (within 1200 range)

Raptor: Its strength allows it to carry some of your supplies. Tripping a supply trap only decrements your supplies by 3.

Skimmer: Preserves its ability to allow you to skim water a little faster ... not fire, though.