What builds do you wish were meta?

[Edds.7681]

revenants tanking with jalis/glint or ventari

[Zhaid Zhem.6508]

> @"FrostDraco.8306" said:

> > @"Zhaid Zhem.6508" said:

> > Any way, as long as people (in PUG or not) won't think and test things by themselves, chrono/harrier druid/war generic meta will be the only meta.

>

> You kidding right? It's not about testing things at that point. All 3 of those builds/classes are simply too slot efficient, and hence they are meta.

>

> There is nothing to think about. They ARE the most slot efficient builds.

>

> As for firebrand. It has a lot of issues when it comes to slotting it in the meta outside of dps or highly focused 1 type of support. Beit quickness+ might/Quickness+tanking/Quickness+healing/etc. Chrono, druid, and warrior do not have these issues. It's easy to slot in another druid. It's easy to slot in another build that does what warrior does. But if you have a FB healer/tank/might bot. You are then missing alacrity. So you need either a chrono or a rev. Well alacrity rev might as well be the healer, as in order to keep it up thats all it can do. You might as well have the chrono do quickness AND alacrity as the rotations are highly linked.

>

> It's all about fitting the peices together. Which is hard to do when some of those peices have jagged edges.

 

 

It's about DPS and standing, even if individual DPS decrease due to lack of banners, spirits etc, group DPS can increase if we have an other DPS slot rather than a support. It's a balance to find.

2~3 DPS +30%, or 3~4 DPS +10%

[zealex.9410]

> @"Rising Dusk.2408" said:

> Interesting topic. I think the builds I enjoy most and would want to play in a raid setting that currently aren't meta are:

>

> * Power Necromancer

> * Power Revenant

> * Power Warrior

> * Quickness Support Firebrand

> * DPS/Alacrity Chronomancer

> * DPS/Alacrity Renegade

 

Isnt dps alac chrono meta? I mean every second chrono is dps.

[Rising Dusk.2408]

> @"zealex.9410" said:

> Isnt dps alac chrono meta? I mean every second chrono is dps.

Both Chronos maintain quickness, though, which cuts into their personal DPS significantly. Basically what I'd like to see is an Alacrity-only Chronomancer that is played alongside a Quickness Firebrand. Subi posted [this](

) a couple months back to test the waters on it, and it's a lot of fun to play (I've tried it).

[Svarty.8019]

Anything Reaper.

[zealex.9410]

> @"Rising Dusk.2408" said:

> > @"zealex.9410" said:

> > Isnt dps alac chrono meta? I mean every second chrono is dps.

> Both Chronos maintain quickness, though, which cuts into their personal DPS significantly. Basically what I'd like to see is an Alacrity-only Chronomancer that is played alongside a Quickness Firebrand. Subi posted [this](

) a couple months back to test the waters on it, and it's a lot of fun to play (I've tried it).

 

Hmm That would ne interesting but its dmg should prob also be well over 29-30k to copensate for taking 2 classes to donthe job of 1.

[FrostDraco.8306]

> @"Zhaid Zhem.6508" said:

> > @"FrostDraco.8306" said:

> > > @"Zhaid Zhem.6508" said:

> > > Any way, as long as people (in PUG or not) won't think and test things by themselves, chrono/harrier druid/war generic meta will be the only meta.

> >

> > You kidding right? It's not about testing things at that point. All 3 of those builds/classes are simply too slot efficient, and hence they are meta.

> >

> > There is nothing to think about. They ARE the most slot efficient builds.

> >

> > As for firebrand. It has a lot of issues when it comes to slotting it in the meta outside of dps or highly focused 1 type of support. Beit quickness+ might/Quickness+tanking/Quickness+healing/etc. Chrono, druid, and warrior do not have these issues. It's easy to slot in another druid. It's easy to slot in another build that does what warrior does. But if you have a FB healer/tank/might bot. You are then missing alacrity. So you need either a chrono or a rev. Well alacrity rev might as well be the healer, as in order to keep it up thats all it can do. You might as well have the chrono do quickness AND alacrity as the rotations are highly linked.

> >

> > It's all about fitting the peices together. Which is hard to do when some of those peices have jagged edges.

>

>

> It's about DPS and standing, even if individual DPS decrease due to lack of banners, spirits etc, group DPS can increase if we have an other DPS slot rather than a support. It's a balance to find.

> 2~3 DPS +30%, or 3~4 DPS +10%

 

I think you under estimate just how much dps a single warriors support adds total to your group. Its about 12k 5 person dps addition, which is half of most high dps players actual in raid dps. And more than a bad dps. The group DPS would not increase unless you can provide a builds that do more dps than druid/warrior/chrono and cover all the same utilities.

 

Meaning, if you were to replace the druid with an alacrity heal rev, you would still need to find a quickness build that does more dps than chrono. Anets recent balance patches are destroying the mirror comp slowly, but it still doesnt invalidate it.

[Zaraki.5784]

Mesmers not being the only tank available in meta comp, that's the only thing I wish.

[Klowdy.3126]

I've always been a fan of condi rev, and with an actual condi ranged weapon, the spec is finally complete (both elite specs should have been part of rev from the start). I would love to see rev do well in all aspects, not just certain raid bosses.

[GWMO.4785]

Just.... Power warrior. (Berserker spec)

[CrustyBot.3564]

By definition you can't really have too many meta builds. But the range of viability for builds increases the more experienced you are at the content. The less experienced and the worse you are at the content, the more necessary it is to rely on the most efficient builds, because you aren't good enough to perform well yet with artificial restraints. Once you have the skill and experience to compensate for hypothetically bad builds, then you have a lot more room to use builds for specific synergies that may suck overall, but does specific things well. That doesn't mean every build is good, but it does mean that there's much more room to do stuff differently to SC.

 

I wished Heal Renegade saw more action in pugs. I believe it synergises really well with a Chrono due to alacrity, enabling a Chrono to reverse their phantasm ratio for more dps (1 shield/2 damage phants). The modifiers on the Salvation tree also mean that a Renegade would require less healing gear investment than a Druid or Elementalist. I'm trying to shill it in my group but there's not many takers.

 

I also think a Support Scourge would be baller now that barriers got a buff in how they work. Specifically I want to see Vampiric Aura to not be crap, but tweaked as a mechanic too. Where others are healed when a Scourge inflicts a condition on an opponent. It'd basically work like AoE Parasitic Contagion. Of course it shouldn't be 10% of a Scourge's damage but the notion of it is what I like. So a Scourge would pulse out a vampiric heal in small amounts while giving defensive barriers as a proactive "burst". This gives it a nice flavour that makes it different to healing on Ele, Druid and Rev.

[arenta.2953]

> @"Dahkeus.8243" said:

> Throwing out what is likely to be meta, what do you wish performed well enough to be a great build for raids/fractals?

>

> Here’s my list:

> S/D Thief or Daredevil

> Longbow Soulbeast

> Rifle Deadeye

> Mace/mace Berserker

> Staff support Firebrand

>

 

rifle deadeye. that class is just....who thought "in this game where everyone relies on mobility, we should make it immobile"

 

they need to fix it...

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/332470

[FrostDraco.8306]

> @"arenta.2953" said:

> > @"Dahkeus.8243" said:

> > Throwing out what is likely to be meta, what do you wish performed well enough to be a great build for raids/fractals?

> >

> > Here’s my list:

> > S/D Thief or Daredevil

> > Longbow Soulbeast

> > Rifle Deadeye

> > Mace/mace Berserker

> > Staff support Firebrand

> >

>

> rifle deadeye. that class is just....who thought "in this game where everyone relies on mobility, we should make it immobile"

>

> they need to fix it...

> https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/332470

 

Necro seems to be doing just fine according to most people and its immobile af. At least deadeye has access to normal theif mobility.

[arenta.2953]

> @"FrostDraco.8306" said:

> > @"arenta.2953" said:

> > > @"Dahkeus.8243" said:

> > > Throwing out what is likely to be meta, what do you wish performed well enough to be a great build for raids/fractals?

> > >

> > > Here’s my list:

> > > S/D Thief or Daredevil

> > > Longbow Soulbeast

> > > Rifle Deadeye

> > > Mace/mace Berserker

> > > Staff support Firebrand

> > >

> >

> > rifle deadeye. that class is just....who thought "in this game where everyone relies on mobility, we should make it immobile"

> >

> > they need to fix it...

> > https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/332470

>

> Necro seems to be doing just fine according to most people and its immobile af. At least deadeye has access to normal theif mobility.

 

necro has a skill that immobilizes it?

[Tora.7214]

staff daredevil (i know its listed as meta but most people dont like it)

GS soulbeast

s/s revenant (we need a decent dual blades class)

s/d weaver

[Knox.8962]

> @"Amineo.8951" said:

> > @"UnbentMars.9126" said:

> > I wish spellbreaker had a tank build that could compete with Chronotank

>

> Technically, all professions can tank in this game, Firebrand might even be better than Chronotank since it's easier to apply boons with the cones AOEs as a tank and the healing is way better, the only issue is that you sacrifice one DPS slot but if your group is competent enough, then there's no reason not to go for it instead of Chronotank (which turns into a 2nd Chrono DPS).

 

If you were going to bring a 2nd healer anyways, FB + 4 DPS is probably overall better damage than Chrono + druid + 3 DPS for the second group. Your DPS players will give up about 10-15% DPS because of the missing alacrity, but you get to replace a 10k chrono and 2k healer with a 2k healer and a 30k DPS. The rest of the group gives up about 10k total, which puts you about 10k ahead.

 

If you were going to run one minstrel and 1 power Chrono, the numbers skew even further. (2k + 2k vs 2k + 30k - 10k) for a net gain of about 18k.

 

If you're running zerk chronos and condi druids, you want nothing to do with this, but if you were using 2 chronos and 2 magi/harrier druids, that's probably a net gain for most groups.

 

If you pick your DPS wisely, you can load that party with people who don't care as much about alacrity (mirage, renegade, power DD, a/t FB to a lesser extent) and give up far less than 10k DPS.

[narcx.3570]

 

> @"Amineo.8951" said:

> > @"UnbentMars.9126" said:

> > I wish spellbreaker had a tank build that could compete with Chronotank

>

> Technically, all professions can tank in this game, Firebrand might even be better than Chronotank since it's easier to apply boons with the cones AOEs as a tank and the healing is way better, the only issue is that you sacrifice one DPS slot but if your group is competent enough, then there's no reason not to go for it instead of Chronotank (which turns into a 2nd Chrono DPS).

 

I think if you really wanted to min/max, 1 chrono, 1 druid in one sub and then 1 quickness FB, 1 Alacrity Renegade in the other would be a lot more dps (and really any of the 4 could be the tank...). Since there's no more distortion, there's not really a reason to not do it... (Maybe a loss of vulnerability uptime from only having 1 chrono since last patches vuln rework.)

 

It'd just be hard to talk yourself into gearing for that if you're not in a static since the LFG/PUG scene will always be 2 chronos because it's a lot easier to find one chrono to supply your sub with Q/A than it is to find multiple specialized classes.

[ArthurDent.9538]

> @"Knox.8962" said:

> > @"Amineo.8951" said:

> > > @"UnbentMars.9126" said:

> > > I wish spellbreaker had a tank build that could compete with Chronotank

> >

> > Technically, all professions can tank in this game, Firebrand might even be better than Chronotank since it's easier to apply boons with the cones AOEs as a tank and the healing is way better, the only issue is that you sacrifice one DPS slot but if your group is competent enough, then there's no reason not to go for it instead of Chronotank (which turns into a 2nd Chrono DPS).

>

> If you were going to bring a 2nd healer anyways, FB + 4 DPS is probably overall better damage than Chrono + druid + 3 DPS for the second group. Your DPS players will give up about 10-15% DPS because of the missing alacrity, but you get to replace a 10k chrono and 2k healer with a 2k healer and a 30k DPS. The rest of the group gives up about 10k total, which puts you about 10k ahead.

>

> If you were going to run one minstrel and 1 power Chrono, the numbers skew even further. (2k + 2k vs 2k + 30k - 10k) for a net gain of about 18k.

>

> If you're running zerk chronos and condi druids, you want nothing to do with this, but if you were using 2 chronos and 2 magi/harrier druids, that's probably a net gain for most groups.

>

> If you pick your DPS wisely, you can load that party with people who don't care as much about alacrity (mirage, renegade, power DD, a/t FB to a lesser extent) and give up far less than 10k DPS.

 

My fractal group likes to run heal firebrand in place of Chrono and druid (no one likes those builds) and it certainly is great. Plenty of heals, perma quickness, might, protection, tons of stability, and aegis spam all in one is just crazy good. Unfortunately when we need to grab a pug they have a tendency to leave before trying it because not meta.

[Knox.8962]

> @"ArthurDent.9538" said:

> > @"Knox.8962" said:

> > > @"Amineo.8951" said:

> > > > @"UnbentMars.9126" said:

> > > > I wish spellbreaker had a tank build that could compete with Chronotank

> > >

> > > Technically, all professions can tank in this game, Firebrand might even be better than Chronotank since it's easier to apply boons with the cones AOEs as a tank and the healing is way better, the only issue is that you sacrifice one DPS slot but if your group is competent enough, then there's no reason not to go for it instead of Chronotank (which turns into a 2nd Chrono DPS).

> >

> > If you were going to bring a 2nd healer anyways, FB + 4 DPS is probably overall better damage than Chrono + druid + 3 DPS for the second group. Your DPS players will give up about 10-15% DPS because of the missing alacrity, but you get to replace a 10k chrono and 2k healer with a 2k healer and a 30k DPS. The rest of the group gives up about 10k total, which puts you about 10k ahead.

> >

> > If you were going to run one minstrel and 1 power Chrono, the numbers skew even further. (2k + 2k vs 2k + 30k - 10k) for a net gain of about 18k.

> >

> > If you're running zerk chronos and condi druids, you want nothing to do with this, but if you were using 2 chronos and 2 magi/harrier druids, that's probably a net gain for most groups.

> >

> > If you pick your DPS wisely, you can load that party with people who don't care as much about alacrity (mirage, renegade, power DD, a/t FB to a lesser extent) and give up far less than 10k DPS.

>

> My fractal group likes to run heal firebrand in place of Chrono and druid (no one likes those builds) and it certainly is great. Plenty of heals, perma quickness, might, protection, tons of stability, and aegis spam all in one is just crazy good. Unfortunately when we need to grab a pug they have a tendency to leave before trying it because not meta.

 

We frequently do the same. Additionally, in my experience a Minstrel FB tank carries a training run **WAY** harder than a minstrel chrono ever could. The trick is getting somebody to allow you to use one in the first place.

[GoZero.9708]

Ventari Revenant in raids. I love Ventari and while a Zealot Ventari can earn its place in Fractals with great support on a small team it still falls short of the ever-relied-upon Druid's pure healing bursts and damage control when it comes to raids.

 

Scourge, as weird as that sounds. I was really excited for it to be a great Necro support spec but instead it's the dreaded condi bomber that still manages to suck at PvE. Barrier tweaks have come a long way but it's still difficult to play support when you still have to rely on the Blood Magic traitline rather than Scourge traitline to actually give support. There's not really a GM trait that gives to support, Feed From Corruption is entirely selfish, Sand Savant doesn't do much in PvE content, and Demonic Lore is for condi damage.

 

I wish Scrapper was better in PvE group content but that's just infatuation with the Scrapper Hammer moveset. I know nothing that hammer could be buffed up into could compare with the Photon Forge for power or condi. I would like to see Turrets made viable again. Besides Healing Turret, they're utterly useless as they are now.