dragonkain.3984 Posted December 10, 2017 Share Posted December 10, 2017 Basically, its very easy to notice why we don't get more Armor skins instead of shitty Outfits, and that problem is Armor Weight Classes.... Mainly it's Medium armor class that has far too many trench-coats which clip with almost all existing leg-pieces from different armor weight classes, so devs obviously don't want to put alot of effort to remake the system to allow players use any existing armor piece with any other existing pieces cos of clipping. So, how do we solve it with the least amount of work? Simple - You put medium chest trench coats into their own "Trench Coats" category and restrict their usage only with medium pants while simultaneously allowing every other existing chest/leg/shoulder/bracer/boot/helmet from other sets to be used with each other. How it would solve the core problem with outfits vs armor sets? What are outfits basically? They are just armor sets and already have separate armor pieces but they are in their own category because they would clip with trench-coats, which is being enforced by old and obviously outdated light/medium/heavy armor system. There would simply be no need to turn make new outfits anymore since devs would be finally able to create just one armor set which can be used by everyone, increasing the amount of potential buyers for any armor they release in future. But what's about *armors having to look appropriately for each class*? It is already not a case with outfits, we already have thiefs running around in heavy plated armor and looking like warriors, not to mention that more freedom with that only increases potential sales for any armor set. What's about old outfits? After that separation of trench coats from the rest of armor pieces have happened there would be no need for outfits so they can be turned into armors with very low amount of effort by simply adding each piece of them into the game as a stand-alone armor piece, which is already the case, its just not properly hooked up from programming standpoint. Bam, easiest way to make everyone happy with least amount of work and increase sales for your company anet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just a flesh wound.3589 Posted December 10, 2017 Share Posted December 10, 2017 > What are outfits basically? They are just armor sets and already have separate armor pieces Source? As far as I know they’re “onesies” that slip over your armor. If you have anything besides your opinion that they have separate pieces, I want to see it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inculpatus cedo.9234 Posted December 10, 2017 Share Posted December 10, 2017 Sadly, your premise is uninformed. Outfits are not 'armor sets and already have separate pieces'. Moving Medium Armor chest pieces to their own category would not solve the problem. For much enlightenment, peruse previous threads/posts/discussion/Dev posts. Good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ayumi Spender.1082 Posted December 10, 2017 Share Posted December 10, 2017 Okay. I've had it. I've seriously had it. Want an image of what my Asura is wearing right now? I don't mean the outfit as the outfit hides this monstrosity:  The shoulders are clipping through the top. The pants is clipping through the boots. My hair clips through all of it. Please stop parroting the problem is clipping. It's an excuse. There is already a ton of horrible clipping problems in the armour in their own set weights. I've already shown a lot of clipping issues in the last topic in clipping on my Human on Medium Armour. This one is an Asura in Light Armour. The reason they don't want to allow it is, "Because we said so." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dragonkain.3984 Posted December 10, 2017 Author Share Posted December 10, 2017 > @"Inculpatus cedo.9234" said: > Sadly, your premise is uninformed. Outfits are not 'armor sets and already have separate pieces'. Moving Medium Armor chest pieces to their own category would not solve the problem. > > For much enlightenment, peruse previous threads/posts/discussion/Dev posts. > > Good luck. More like it's you who is uninformed about anything that has to deal with how 3d modelling is done in games lately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just a flesh wound.3589 Posted December 10, 2017 Share Posted December 10, 2017 Also, I want to see the source where a dev said the problem was clipping because what they did say was that the different weights are “fundamentally incompatible” and gave dye channels that don’t match up as one example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dragonkain.3984 Posted December 10, 2017 Author Share Posted December 10, 2017 > @"Ayumi Spender.1082" said: > Okay. I've had it. I've seriously had it. > Want an image of what my Asura is wearing right now? I don't mean the outfit as the outfit hides this monstrosity: >  > The shoulders are clipping through the top. The pants is clipping through the boots. My hair clips through all of it. > > Please stop parroting the problem is clipping. It's an excuse. There is already a ton of horrible clipping problems in the armour in their own set weights. > > I've already shown a lot of clipping issues in the last topic in clipping on my Human on Medium Armour. This one is an Asura in Light Armour. > The reason they don't want to allow it is, "Because we said so." Yeah, sure, it's cos they don't want to put any effort into it because game manager doesn't realize how much more people would buy the armor skins if they had no armor categories + outfits weren't forced to be linked full sets. The only way to fix it is to create a huge thread that will be read and brought up by at least one dev to the game manager, then it would happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inculpatus cedo.9234 Posted December 10, 2017 Share Posted December 10, 2017 At least I've read the Dev posts about the issue; many, many times. Never once has clipping come up as a reason that the 4 separate weights could not be mixed and matched. Perhaps, you can enlighten us with the Dev posts that confirm that clipping is the issue keeping Outfits from being magically turned into Armor Sets. I will wait here patiently. = ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dragonkain.3984 Posted December 10, 2017 Author Share Posted December 10, 2017 > @"Inculpatus cedo.9234" said: > At least I've read the Dev posts about the issue; many, many times. Never once has clipping come up as a reason that the 4 separate weights could not be mixed and matched. > > Perhaps, you can enlighten us with the Dev posts that confirm that clipping is the issue keeping Outfits from being magically turned into Armor Sets. I will wait here patiently. = ) It's obvious logic and knowledge of how 3d modelling is done, since I have some friends in that area in other games. All armor pieces already can be used with any set,so those restrictions are arficially put there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inculpatus cedo.9234 Posted December 10, 2017 Share Posted December 10, 2017 Ah..."I know a guy". Gotcha! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just a flesh wound.3589 Posted December 10, 2017 Share Posted December 10, 2017 1) clipping is not the reason why weights can’t be mixed 2) I’m sure the Devs know at this point that people want to mix and match across weights. There have been hundreds of posts already on this subject. However since they’ve said that the weights are incompatible that means to get them to mix would mean a complete restructuring of the armor system in the game, as well as how the stats are distributed on the armors.This is no small project and while it’s possible that the Devs might completely revamp armor and stats I expect it’s unlikely as it would tie up resources and people needed to make new content. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dragonkain.3984 Posted December 10, 2017 Author Share Posted December 10, 2017 > @"Just a flesh wound.3589" said: > 1) clipping is not the reason why weights can’t be mixed > 2) I’m sure the Devs know at this point that people want to mix and match across weights. There have been hundreds of posts already on this subject. However since they’ve said that the weights are incompatible that means to get them to mix would mean a complete restructuring of the armor system in the game, as well as how the stats are distributed on the armors.This is no small project and while it’s possible that the Devs might completely revamp armor and stats I expect it’s unlikely as it would tie up resources and people needed to make new content. 1) It is **2) They do but nobody ever offered the least-amount-of-work solution that also points out how much it is benificial for sales. MMO's lately are all about milking their players for money with tiny effort involved after all, so this solution perfectly fits that requirement perfectly.** Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ohoni.6057 Posted December 10, 2017 Share Posted December 10, 2017 It's not as simple as the OP makes it out to be, but this *is* something that they **need** to fix, even though I'm aware it will be a monumental undertaking. It just needs doing. The actual solution would likely involve tweaking each armor piece to conform to certain standards that would allow them to be compatible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just a flesh wound.3589 Posted December 10, 2017 Share Posted December 10, 2017 > @"dragonkain.3984" said: > > @"Just a flesh wound.3589" said: > > 1) clipping is not the reason why weights can’t be mixed > > 2) I’m sure the Devs know at this point that people want to mix and match across weights. There have been hundreds of posts already on this subject. However since they’ve said that the weights are incompatible that means to get them to mix would mean a complete restructuring of the armor system in the game, as well as how the stats are distributed on the armors.This is no small project and while it’s possible that the Devs might completely revamp armor and stats I expect it’s unlikely as it would tie up resources and people needed to make new content. > > 1) It is > **2) They do but nobody ever offered the least-amount-of-work solution that also points out how much it is benificial for sales. MMO's lately are all about milking their players for money with tiny effort involved after all, so this solution perfectly fits that requirement perfectly.** If it is clipping give me the quote from a dev. I’ve never seen one saying that and the explanation from a dev did not say clipping. They said “fundamentally incompatible”. Now those words don’t mean “We could do it but there will be clipping.” Fundamentally incompatible means a square peg/round hole situation. I’m sure ANet has run a look through to see how they can fix a fundamentally incompatible situation of mix and match but I can guarantee that your suggestion isn’t going make the dye channels match up across the different weights or fix any other of the incompatibilities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashen.2907 Posted December 10, 2017 Share Posted December 10, 2017 The reasons you give do not match the reasons given by representatives of the company regarding outfits and armor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inculpatus cedo.9234 Posted December 10, 2017 Share Posted December 10, 2017 Likely more than 'tweaking'. Every single piece of armor in the game would need to be changed into a 5th armor weight, with all dye channels redone, among other issues. It would probably take years, and cause a gear-drought. Would the playerbase support ArenaNet through the Gem Store during said drought with less gear offerings? Unknown. Well, the studio probably has a better idea of what would happen than any armchair developers/studio managers. /shrug Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dragonkain.3984 Posted December 10, 2017 Author Share Posted December 10, 2017 > @"Just a flesh wound.3589" said: > > @"dragonkain.3984" said: > > > @"Just a flesh wound.3589" said: > > > 1) clipping is not the reason why weights can’t be mixed > > > 2) I’m sure the Devs know at this point that people want to mix and match across weights. There have been hundreds of posts already on this subject. However since they’ve said that the weights are incompatible that means to get them to mix would mean a complete restructuring of the armor system in the game, as well as how the stats are distributed on the armors.This is no small project and while it’s possible that the Devs might completely revamp armor and stats I expect it’s unlikely as it would tie up resources and people needed to make new content. > > > > 1) It is > > **2) They do but nobody ever offered the least-amount-of-work solution that also points out how much it is benificial for sales. MMO's lately are all about milking their players for money with tiny effort involved after all, so this solution perfectly fits that requirement perfectly.** > > If it is clipping give me the quote from a dev. I’ve never seen one saying that and the explanation from a dev did not say clipping. They said “fundamentally incompatible”. Now those words don’t mean “We could do it but there will be clipping.” Fundamentally incompatible means a square peg/round hole situation. > > I’m sure ANet has run a look through to see how they can fix a fundamentally incompatible situation of mix and match but I can guarantee that your suggestion isn’t going make the dye channels match up across the different weights or fix any other of the incompatibilities. Well I would ask you to do the same then! Provide a link to the dev quote that shows a dev explaining in detail why it's not as easy as described. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just a flesh wound.3589 Posted December 10, 2017 Share Posted December 10, 2017 > @"dragonkain.3984" said: > > @"Just a flesh wound.3589" said: > > > @"dragonkain.3984" said: > > > > @"Just a flesh wound.3589" said: > > > > 1) clipping is not the reason why weights can’t be mixed > > > > 2) I’m sure the Devs know at this point that people want to mix and match across weights. There have been hundreds of posts already on this subject. However since they’ve said that the weights are incompatible that means to get them to mix would mean a complete restructuring of the armor system in the game, as well as how the stats are distributed on the armors.This is no small project and while it’s possible that the Devs might completely revamp armor and stats I expect it’s unlikely as it would tie up resources and people needed to make new content. > > > > > > 1) It is > > > **2) They do but nobody ever offered the least-amount-of-work solution that also points out how much it is benificial for sales. MMO's lately are all about milking their players for money with tiny effort involved after all, so this solution perfectly fits that requirement perfectly.** > > > > If it is clipping give me the quote from a dev. I’ve never seen one saying that and the explanation from a dev did not say clipping. They said “fundamentally incompatible”. Now those words don’t mean “We could do it but there will be clipping.” Fundamentally incompatible means a square peg/round hole situation. > > > > I’m sure ANet has run a look through to see how they can fix a fundamentally incompatible situation of mix and match but I can guarantee that your suggestion isn’t going make the dye channels match up across the different weights or fix any other of the incompatibilities. > > Well I would ask you to do the same then! Provide a link to the dev quote that shows a dev explaining in detail why it's not as easy as described. It’s from the old forum >Curtis Johnson* >(snip) When we started looking at bringing more of the clothing back into armor with mix and match styles there are some fundamental incompatible things between weight classes. (part of how we set up every armor to allow many dye channels and styles per piece). There really is no way at this point over six years since we started development to make absolutely everything work together. (snip)_ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dragonkain.3984 Posted December 10, 2017 Author Share Posted December 10, 2017 > @"Just a flesh wound.3589" said: > > @"dragonkain.3984" said: > > > @"Just a flesh wound.3589" said: > > > > @"dragonkain.3984" said: > > > > > @"Just a flesh wound.3589" said: > > > > > 1) clipping is not the reason why weights can’t be mixed > > > > > 2) I’m sure the Devs know at this point that people want to mix and match across weights. There have been hundreds of posts already on this subject. However since they’ve said that the weights are incompatible that means to get them to mix would mean a complete restructuring of the armor system in the game, as well as how the stats are distributed on the armors.This is no small project and while it’s possible that the Devs might completely revamp armor and stats I expect it’s unlikely as it would tie up resources and people needed to make new content. > > > > > > > > 1) It is > > > > **2) They do but nobody ever offered the least-amount-of-work solution that also points out how much it is benificial for sales. MMO's lately are all about milking their players for money with tiny effort involved after all, so this solution perfectly fits that requirement perfectly.** > > > > > > If it is clipping give me the quote from a dev. I’ve never seen one saying that and the explanation from a dev did not say clipping. They said “fundamentally incompatible”. Now those words don’t mean “We could do it but there will be clipping.” Fundamentally incompatible means a square peg/round hole situation. > > > > > > I’m sure ANet has run a look through to see how they can fix a fundamentally incompatible situation of mix and match but I can guarantee that your suggestion isn’t going make the dye channels match up across the different weights or fix any other of the incompatibilities. > > > > Well I would ask you to do the same then! Provide a link to the dev quote that shows a dev explaining in detail why it's not as easy as described. > > It’s from the old forum > > >Curtis Johnson* > >(snip) When we started looking at bringing more of the clothing back into armor with mix and match styles there are some fundamental incompatible things between weight classes. (part of how we set up every armor to allow many dye channels and styles per piece). There really is no way at this point over six years since we started development to make absolutely everything work together. (snip)_ Oke, noted, so they failed from programming standpoint in the past somewhere. Thanks. Oh well, whatever, means players will never get what they want, hah! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Illconceived Was Na.9781 Posted December 10, 2017 Share Posted December 10, 2017 My options in this thread are apparently * Trust what the devs have said about why turning outfits into pieces is a comparable amount of work to making pieces in the first place * Trust someone who says they know lots about 3D modeling and they guarantee it would be easy to do this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ohoni.6057 Posted December 10, 2017 Share Posted December 10, 2017 > @"Inculpatus cedo.9234" said: > Likely more than 'tweaking'. Every single piece of armor in the game would need to be changed into a 5th armor weight, with all dye channels redone, among other issues. It would probably take years, and cause a gear-drought. Would the playerbase support ArenaNet through the Gem Store during said drought with less gear offerings? Unknown. > > Well, the studio probably has a better idea of what would happen than any armchair developers/studio managers. /shrug That's not *quite* likely. It's possible, just not likely. Dye channels *shouldn't* need to be redone, and at least one, possibly two of the weight classes could be left mostly alone. But yes, it would take work, but work that is vital to the future of the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glacial.9516 Posted December 10, 2017 Share Posted December 10, 2017 I'd be very happy if they found a way to allow armor headgear with outfits, clipping or not. Especially as there are already numerous headgear items that are designed for all three weights. Shoulders/Gloves/Boots would be icing on a very improbable cake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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