Why didnt u adress Confusion condition ? Its a dmg Condition

[Ravezaar.4951]

The title says most of it, u adressed Torment,Butn, Posion, Bleed aso but I cant see any reduction is amount of Confusion stax a Mesmer can do, or am I missing that ?

[FtoPScrub.5476]

They actually buffed Mirage in 1v1s. Are they that out of touch? Absolutely ridiculous.

[Turk.5460]

I noticed that as well and let out a long drawn out sigh of disappointment.

[Caro.2730]

Mesmer applies confusion for about 4 seconds with shatters. You can easily just wait out using any skills or use them and die. It's actually quite fair and punishing bad players. Just use condi removals lol.

[Turk.5460]

> @"Caro.2730" said:

> Mesmer applies confusion for about 4 seconds with Cry of Frustration. You can easily just wait out using any skills or use them and die. It's actually quite fair and punishing bad players. Just use condi removals lol.

 

Hi.

Jaunt, Ether Barrage, Illusionary Retribution, Master of Misdirection, and the Expertise Stat would like to have a word with you.

[Tapps.1479]

> @"Caro.2730" said:

> Mesmer applies confusion for about 4 seconds with Cry of Frustration. You can easily just wait out using any skills or use them and die. It's actually quite fair and punishing bad players. Just use condi removals lol.

 

The problem with mesmer is they can stack about 20 confusion very quickly. The stated purpose of this patch was to lower the stacks of conditions being put out and increase thier duration. Why not lower juant from three stacks to confusion to one?

[Ravezaar.4951]

> @"Caro.2730" said:

> Mesmer applies confusion for about 4 seconds with Cry of Frustration. You can easily just wait out using any skills or use them and die. It's actually quite fair and punishing bad players. Just use condi removals lol.

 

I hope u are joking right ? Cause Mes had confusion comming from a million diffrent ways and saying just wait it out and use Condi removal ? yea lol goes for all condis I guess. I guess u were joking tho

[bart.3687]

> @"Caro.2730" said:

> Mesmer applies confusion for about 4 seconds with shatters. You can easily just wait out using any skills or use them and die. It's actually quite fair and punishing bad players. Just use condi removals lol.

 

What?

[Morwath.9817]

> @"Caro.2730" said:

> Mesmer applies confusion for about 4 seconds with Cry of Frustration. You can easily just wait out using any skills or use them and die. It's actually quite fair and punishing bad players. Just use condi removals lol.

 

Ooo, Mirage has multiple sources of confusion, e.g.:

* Jaunt.

* Any interrupt (Ineptitude).

* Any Shatter skill (Illusionary Retribution).

 

[Egorum.9506]

Give it 2 days until the forum starts posting all the pics of 30 stacks of confusion install downing

[Curunen.8729]

The difficulty with balancing mesmer condi application is a lot of it is multiple hits each applying 1-2 stacks of something.

 

There are only a few skills that stack multiple stacks in a single hit - eg scepter 2, axe 3, Jaunt... I can easily see these being reduced to fewer stacks for longer duration.

 

However when it comes to shatters, autos and other multihit attacks - it's lots of one and two stacks of stuff which is executed in combos making it look like an instant huge condi spike.

 

Actually one idea would be to merge F1 and F2 into a single shatter with one confusion stack base - reduces shatter spam and the potency of things like MtD and IR in Illusions when used in combination with ambush and so on.

[BlaqueFyre.5678]

If their design intent is to Punish skill use As they say, hen they need to remove the Passive Proc in Pvp and WvW since those break their design intent and punished players for not using skills, that’s just a little common sense there.

[Kirin.7306]

its OK if Mesmer does it.

 

/s

[Egorum.9506]

It would be great for reducing skill spam if the mirages running it weren't using vipers or wizards, but as it stands a burst hits for 10-15k, from an invuln/evading mesmer, and leaves you with 15-20 stacks of confusion and cover condis. If it doesn't kill you, they are free to run or stealth and do it again, very quickly.

 

Fixes:

Reduce the duration of confusion to 3s on these skills. 3s is still a very long time in pvp.

 

Reduce the number of stacks from ambushes and jaunt. Not as easy, since mesmer burst is reliant on multiple instances of 1-2 stacks of confusion.

 

Reduce the damage of confusion in pvp, or if a skill is used it deals the remaining ticks of confusion all at once and clears itself. You can choose to eat the damage or try to clear it.

 

Leaving it as it is is too strong though.

[OriOri.8724]

> @"Curunen.8729" said:

> The difficulty with balancing mesmer condi application is a lot of it is multiple hits each applying 1-2 stacks of something.

>

> There are only a few skills that stack multiple stacks in a single hit - eg scepter 2, axe 3, Jaunt... I can easily see these being reduced to fewer stacks for longer duration.

>

> However when it comes to shatters, autos and other multihit attacks - it's lots of one and two stacks of stuff which is executed in combos making it look like an instant huge condi spike.

>

> Actually one idea would be to merge F1 and F2 into a single shatter with one confusion stack base - reduces shatter spam and the potency of things like MtD and IR in Illusions when used in combination with ambush and so on.

 

Remove IH from game. Significantly buff personal ambush attacks on mesmer. Condition burst for condi mirage is nerfed.

[sephiroth.4217]

> @"Caro.2730" said:

> Mesmer applies confusion for about 4 seconds with shatters. You can easily just wait out using any skills or use them and die. It's actually quite fair and punishing bad players. Just use condi removals lol.

 

I used a condi removal with 22 stacks of confusion on me and it killed me but I'm also very bad at this game, I tend to clear my cripples and chills before my confusion and torment stacks.

[Genesis.5169]

20+ stacks of confusion requires multiple cd's to be burned, and if you live after the 20stacks the mirage has to retreat. I don't know how that's not fair. Any power player that lands a clean hit on a mirage and if it crits is taking it down to half or sub half hp.

 

Mirages are also melee and if we are to live we are going to need to use our shatters to blind or dodge, the counterplay to mirage is there you all refuse to play to the class weakness instead you chose to faceroll buttons like your fighting a warrior or a thief, not every class is a warrior or a thief sometimes you have to change your gameplay based on your match up please understand this.

 

Try to cleave the clones no clones is alot of confuse gone, if the mesmer is gonna decoy axe 3 and shatter axe 3 is a huge tell and it has decent animation time. Jaunt is our escape and or offensive tool we generally do not run blink if we are mirages so mirages not gonna drop 3 jaunts on your ass and be left with no movement tools vs power classes because again you can kill us in 2 or 3 gcds.

 

The only tool mirages have that have no counter play is distortions because its on invul and that has a 40+second cd on shatter, you do have sword 2 but thats power mirage no condi mesmer is gonna run sword in MH we run axe+torch and staff or axe+torch and scepter+pistol

 

Simply dodge our tells or cleanse the confuse and you have solved mirage damage for a whole 11seconds or longer because we have to wait for shatter 2 and axe 3 to come up again + clones to do that again.

 

Please don't complain about staff and just to add prestige+mage combo is super easy to dodge if you see me stealth just time it and dodge and u have just negated 2 of our skills in a simple dodge roll, if you don't see me coming your going to take alot of damage but its no different from a thief coming out of stealth either. Your welcome you now know how to deal with mesmers.

[Curunen.8729]

> @"OriOri.8724" said:

> > @"Curunen.8729" said:

> > The difficulty with balancing mesmer condi application is a lot of it is multiple hits each applying 1-2 stacks of something.

> >

> > There are only a few skills that stack multiple stacks in a single hit - eg scepter 2, axe 3, Jaunt... I can easily see these being reduced to fewer stacks for longer duration.

> >

> > However when it comes to shatters, autos and other multihit attacks - it's lots of one and two stacks of stuff which is executed in combos making it look like an instant huge condi spike.

> >

> > Actually one idea would be to merge F1 and F2 into a single shatter with one confusion stack base - reduces shatter spam and the potency of things like MtD and IR in Illusions when used in combination with ambush and so on.

>

> Remove IH from game. Significantly buff personal ambush attacks on mesmer. Condition burst for condi mirage is nerfed.

 

Who in pvp or wvw even uses IH over Elusive Mind...?

 

That's besides the point. Or are you just saying it as a jibe knowing that I like IH? IH as a major trait is a pve thing.

 

If personal ambush is buffed even more it would make the burst even stronger, which while it would be funny, doesn't solve this issue.

[Urejt.5648]

Dev said confusion is burst condi and as such it was not considered to be patched.

[Kuya.6495]

> @"BlaqueFyre.5678" said:

> If their design intent is to Punish skill use As they say, hen they need to remove the Passive Proc in Pvp and WvW since those break their design intent and punished players for not using skills, that’s just a little common sense there.

 

that would require that they split mechanics and not numbers between game modes and unfortunately, according to karl, they still insist on balancing all game modes at the same time.

[Chaith.8256]

Edit: So it's their vision to make Mesmer stay as a profession with short but high stack confusion shut down (or the player uses skills and dies), and then falls off. That's not how it works right now, the meta build's Mesmer confusion lasts for 4-6.75s with condition spec, that's without Nightmare Rune or Deadshot amulets which are available at the cost of some performance. You can build to apply any duration of confusion that you want, really. With Deadshot and Nightmare your Ineptitude lasts 9.25 seconds, Riddle of Sand 7.25 seconds, Illusionary Retribution 5.5s.

 

Confusion already has enough duration to where you're forced to cleanse it anyways. You have all the duration you need currently. No reason to build for expertise. It never just falls off if you have awareness and stop performing actions due to the re-application rate. That's the fundamental difference between Karl's vision and the current state of Mirage's confusion spike build.

 

I think of Karl's intention of confusion was accurate, every confusion skill for the Mesmer (and in the game, really.) would already have higher stacks, and be 3 seconds base, 4s with Illusions minor trait, and 5.5s with full PvP condi duration __and__ be reserved for a few key abilities with downtime, not all basic attacks/interrupts/blinds. Not suggesting that should happen, just saying: waiting for it to fall off is not a thing, it's something you must efficiently cleanse immediately just like every other condition. Confusion hits over half as hard as bleeding does if you just wait it out. When you have 22 confusion for 5s, it's like having 13 bleed, you need to do something about that. You can't stop your actions for 4 seconds every 6 seconds, you might as well not be playing the game eh?

 

IMO, it would have been better off to not recognize confusion not as an exception condi. Increasing the duration of confusion and reducing the burst potential as was done with other professions, this is because you are already living by cleansing quickly anyway.

[Cynz.9437]

I am find it almost entertaining how

- they nerfed UC with excuses like it has "no counter/too much of good things" yadayada while leaving EM untouched

- actually buffed mes in patch that was supposed to address condis

 

I mean, really? Either they really try to make mirage sooooooooooooo good that everyone has to buy PoF or they don't know their game.

[Ravezaar.4951]

watch Sindrener last stream, Misha one-shots him with a Confuse-Torment burst after patch. There is noway u can survive a Condi Mirage burst and Confution should have bin adressed same as Torment,Poison,Bleed,Burn its just a fact and a total neglect from Anet.

[Deus Fatorum.2473]

> @"Chaith.8256" said:

> Edit: So it's their vision to make Mesmer stay as a profession with short but high stack confusion shut down (or the player uses skills and dies), and then falls off. That's not how it works right now, the meta build's Mesmer confusion lasts for 4-6.75s with condition spec, that's without Nightmare Rune or Deadshot amulets which are available at the cost of some performance. You can build to apply any duration of confusion that you want, really. With Deadshot and Nightmare your Ineptitude lasts 9.25 seconds, Riddle of Sand 7.25 seconds, Illusionary Retribution 5.5s.

>

> Confusion already has enough duration to where you're forced to cleanse it anyways. You have all the duration you need currently. No reason to build for expertise. It never just falls off if you have awareness and stop performing actions due to the re-application rate. That's the fundamental difference between Karl's vision and the current state of Mirage's confusion spike build.

>

> I think of Karl's intention of confusion was accurate, every confusion skill for the Mesmer (and in the game, really.) would already have higher stacks, and be 3 seconds base, 4s with Illusions minor trait, and 5.5s with full PvP condi duration __and__ be reserved for a few key abilities with downtime, not all basic attacks/interrupts/blinds. Not suggesting that should happen, just saying: waiting for it to fall off is not a thing, it's something you must efficiently cleanse immediately just like every other condition. Confusion hits over half as hard as bleeding does if you just wait it out. When you have 22 confusion for 5s, it's like having 13 bleed, you need to do something about that. You can't stop your actions for 4 seconds every 6 seconds, you might as well not be playing the game eh?

>

> IMO, it would have been better off to not recognize confusion not as an exception condi. Increasing the duration of confusion and reducing the burst potential as was done with other professions, this is because you are already living by cleansing quickly anyway.

 

Ok I think I see what your getting at, mesmer and confusion in general is already not applied in big bursts, that is to say what they did to scourge(lowering stacks and increasing duration) is already baseline for mesmer confusion application, it is just they spam the re-application at an insanely high rate.

 

However, I do feel mesmer is a tad overtuned in its current state. Just curious if you feel mirage should be toned down, if so how much and how?

 

Would you be opposed to maybe adding some icd's on to some of mesmer's passives, or maybe limiting the speed and effectiveness of mirages ability to re-apply the confusion at such a high rate?

[Deadly Moonshiner.1354]

It is wrong that a player can stack anything to 25-30 stacks in a split second. That is valid for any boon or condition IMO. However, confusion is even worse as one is forced to stand still and do nothing while being confused. Then you cleanse it and you get another set of condis stacked again. I get confusion is essential to mesmers but this should be toned down somehow.