Balance Patch was obvious Necro-hate patch

[Zoltreez.6435]

> @"Zero.3871" said:

> > @"Master Ketsu.4569" said:

> > > @"Vagrant.7206" said:

> > > Man, necros have a serious persecution complex.

> >

> > The saddest part about this whining is if they knew how to play they would realize that scourge was actually buffed last patch.

> >

> > Increasing condi duration at the expense of stacks is, from a pvp standpoint, actually a big buff. This is because the main thing you want in pvp when running conditions is a good flow of cover conditions in order to make removal less effective. Higher durations make covering easier to maintain while also reducing the effectiveness of resistance ( IE a stack of 2 torment for 10 seconds vs a stack of 4 for 5, guess which is more effective against 5 seconds of resistance? ) . So while the patch slightly reduced the burst DPS, it increased the overall utility and effectiveness of the build to ignore counter tactics.

> >

> > But of course, these kids don't realize that. They were spamming their F1-F5 and now they see slightly lower numbers and think it means they have been "nerfed".

> >

> > topkek.

>

> lol, necros get nerfed and people deform the reality to say that was a buff? OKAY THAN PPPLLLZZZ anet, TAKe BACK THE "BUFF". WE WANT the nerf that **duration get decreased and stacks get increased**, PLZ ANET...

 

i Just want a Working Worthwhile SHROUD....... and some mobility for My necro.... no matter the spec.....

[Master Ketsu.4569]

> @"Zero.3871" said:

> > @"Master Ketsu.4569" said:

> > > @"Vagrant.7206" said:

> > > Man, necros have a serious persecution complex.

> >

> > The saddest part about this whining is if they knew how to play they would realize that scourge was actually buffed last patch.

> >

> > Increasing condi duration at the expense of stacks is, from a pvp standpoint, actually a big buff. This is because the main thing you want in pvp when running conditions is a good flow of cover conditions in order to make removal less effective. Higher durations make covering easier to maintain while also reducing the effectiveness of resistance ( IE a stack of 2 torment for 10 seconds vs a stack of 4 for 5, guess which is more effective against 5 seconds of resistance? ) . So while the patch slightly reduced the burst DPS, it increased the overall utility and effectiveness of the build to ignore counter tactics.

> >

> > But of course, these kids don't realize that. They were spamming their F1-F5 and now they see slightly lower numbers and think it means they have been "nerfed".

> >

> > topkek.

>

> lol, necros get nerfed and people deform the reality to say that was a buff? OKAY THAN PPPLLLZZZ anet, TAKe BACK THE "BUFF". WE WANT the nerf that **duration get decreased and stacks get increased**, PLZ ANET...

 

Yeah man easier access to cover conditions is totally a nerf.

 

oops you're bad.

[Crinn.7864]

> @"Zero.3871" said:

> > @"Master Ketsu.4569" said:

> > > @"Vagrant.7206" said:

> > > Man, necros have a serious persecution complex.

> >

> > The saddest part about this whining is if they knew how to play they would realize that scourge was actually buffed last patch.

> >

> > Increasing condi duration at the expense of stacks is, from a pvp standpoint, actually a big buff. This is because the main thing you want in pvp when running conditions is a good flow of cover conditions in order to make removal less effective. Higher durations make covering easier to maintain while also reducing the effectiveness of resistance ( IE a stack of 2 torment for 10 seconds vs a stack of 4 for 5, guess which is more effective against 5 seconds of resistance? ) . So while the patch slightly reduced the burst DPS, it increased the overall utility and effectiveness of the build to ignore counter tactics.

> >

> > But of course, these kids don't realize that. They were spamming their F1-F5 and now they see slightly lower numbers and think it means they have been "nerfed".

> >

> > topkek.

>

> lol, necros get nerfed and people deform the reality to say that was a buff? OKAY THAN PPPLLLZZZ anet, TAKe BACK THE "BUFF". WE WANT the nerf that **duration get decreased and stacks get increased**, PLZ ANET...

 

Scourge needs more nerfs

[Kaiser.9873]

> @"Zero.3871" said:

> > @"Master Ketsu.4569" said:

> > > @"Vagrant.7206" said:

> > > Man, necros have a serious persecution complex.

> >

> > The saddest part about this whining is if they knew how to play they would realize that scourge was actually buffed last patch.

> >

> > Increasing condi duration at the expense of stacks is, from a pvp standpoint, actually a big buff. This is because the main thing you want in pvp when running conditions is a good flow of cover conditions in order to make removal less effective. Higher durations make covering easier to maintain while also reducing the effectiveness of resistance ( IE a stack of 2 torment for 10 seconds vs a stack of 4 for 5, guess which is more effective against 5 seconds of resistance? ) . So while the patch slightly reduced the burst DPS, it increased the overall utility and effectiveness of the build to ignore counter tactics.

> >

> > But of course, these kids don't realize that. They were spamming their F1-F5 and now they see slightly lower numbers and think it means they have been "nerfed".

> >

> > topkek.

>

> lol, necros get nerfed and people deform the reality to say that was a buff? OKAY THAN PPPLLLZZZ anet, TAKe BACK THE "BUFF". WE WANT the nerf that **duration get decreased and stacks get increased**, PLZ ANET...

 

I'm with you on this. Revert the patch and nerf me back to how I was before the "BUFF" patch lmao. Nobody else's burst DPS got reduced like the Scourge. That extra tick or two sure helps me when I get critted by a power class for 12K.

[Nimon.7840]

> @"Kaiser.9873" said:

> > @"Zero.3871" said:

> > > @"Master Ketsu.4569" said:

> > > > @"Vagrant.7206" said:

> > > > Man, necros have a serious persecution complex.

> > >

> > > The saddest part about this whining is if they knew how to play they would realize that scourge was actually buffed last patch.

> > >

> > > Increasing condi duration at the expense of stacks is, from a pvp standpoint, actually a big buff. This is because the main thing you want in pvp when running conditions is a good flow of cover conditions in order to make removal less effective. Higher durations make covering easier to maintain while also reducing the effectiveness of resistance ( IE a stack of 2 torment for 10 seconds vs a stack of 4 for 5, guess which is more effective against 5 seconds of resistance? ) . So while the patch slightly reduced the burst DPS, it increased the overall utility and effectiveness of the build to ignore counter tactics.

> > >

> > > But of course, these kids don't realize that. They were spamming their F1-F5 and now they see slightly lower numbers and think it means they have been "nerfed".

> > >

> > > topkek.

> >

> > lol, necros get nerfed and people deform the reality to say that was a buff? OKAY THAN PPPLLLZZZ anet, TAKe BACK THE "BUFF". WE WANT the nerf that **duration get decreased and stacks get increased**, PLZ ANET...

>

> I'm with you on this. Revert the patch and nerf me back to how I was before the "BUFF" patch lmao. Nobody else's burst DPS got reduced like the Scourge. That extra tick or two sure helps me when I get critted by a power class for 12K.

 

Yep 6-10k crit from power classes on a 3.2k armor... W T F?!

[Anchoku.8142]

Arenanet may take some more time to let PvP settle. The half-stack, double-duration update affected all professions. It made condi cleanses more valuable but that applies double for boon corruptions and condi transfers.

 

I do expect another condi balance patch. The half-double patch was too simple. Condi durations will probably be tweaked and I would not rule out adjustments to boon generation, boon ripping, and condi cleansing. The developers probably expected the energetic discussions so do not think your voices are not being heard.

[Zero.3871]

> @"Anchoku.8142" said:

> Arenanet may take some more time to let PvP settle. The half-stack, double-duration update affected all professions. It made condi cleanses more valuable but that applies double for boon corruptions and condi transfers.

>

> I do expect another condi balance patch. The half-double patch was too simple. Condi durations will probably be tweaked and I would not rule out adjustments to boon generation, boon ripping, and condi cleansing. The developers probably expected the energetic discussions so do not think your voices are not being heard.

 

the discussion is just so energetic, because currently there is just 1 viable build on whole necromancer class. its condi scourge. scourge is created for condis (so it cant be settled in power space without redesign of class that never will happen).so if you destroy condis you destroy scourges and the whole necromancer class will be completely redundant...if anet would bring 1 viable power necro back to game, everyone would be happy. but anet just fix dmg. but dmg is not the problem of power necs. the problem is sustain. and anet only nerfed sustain of necs in the last 5 years with every balance patch, so power nec will never came back if anet doesnt change its "ideology" of balancing necros. hopeless...

[otto.5684]

Boon corrupt is greatly imbalanced design, since majority of classes functionality is integrated with boons. Not to mention, with boon corrupt you can get hit easy with 20-25 condis under 10 secs. There isn't enough condi removal for any class to fight this. It is impossible for any melee now to fight on point, especially boon reliant classes.

 

Scourge will get nerfed (even if not enough of hit this patch within the next 2-3 patches it will). The problem is Anet will be nerf completely out the meta. Like reaper, condi warrior, condi rev, and so on. It seems we can never get things balanced. Either largely out performing or nerfed to oblivion.

[Obtena.7952]

> @"otto.5684" said:

> Boon corrupt is greatly imbalanced design, since majority of classes functionality is integrated with boons. Not to mention, with boon corrupt you can get hit easy with 20-25 condis under 10 secs. There isn't enough condi removal for any class to fight this. It is impossible for any melee now to fight on point, especially boon reliant classes.

>

> Scourge will get nerfed (even if not enough of hit this patch within the next 2-3 patches it will). The problem is Anet will be nerf completely out the meta. Like reaper, condi warrior, condi rev, and so on. It seems we can never get things balanced. Either largely out performing or nerfed to oblivion.

 

I think you will see boon corrupt is only greatly inbalanced because it stacks with the ridiculous numbers of conditions people can apply. With Anet recognizing that the condi burst needs to go and that condition damage should be more of a long-term strategy, condi removal will be relatively easier.

 

That being said, the same build that has ideal boon corruption on Necro is also an ideal Condition application build ... so I would bet with you ... that's an unsustainable situation that Anet should remedy.

[Thustlewhumber.7416]

> @"Zero.3871" said:

> > @"Anchoku.8142" said:

> >

>

> the discussion is just so energetic, because currently there is just 1 viable build on whole necromancer class. its condi scourge.

 

And power reaper. https://ibb.co/hq1Xb6

[panchovilla.5986]

> @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > @"otto.5684" said:

> > Boon corrupt is greatly imbalanced design, since majority of classes functionality is integrated with boons. Not to mention, with boon corrupt you can get hit easy with 20-25 condis under 10 secs. There isn't enough condi removal for any class to fight this. It is impossible for any melee now to fight on point, especially boon reliant classes.

> >

> > Scourge will get nerfed (even if not enough of hit this patch within the next 2-3 patches it will). The problem is Anet will be nerf completely out the meta. Like reaper, condi warrior, condi rev, and so on. It seems we can never get things balanced. Either largely out performing or nerfed to oblivion.

>

> I think you will see boon corrupt is only greatly inbalanced because it stacks with the ridiculous numbers of conditions people can apply. With Anet recognizing that the condi burst needs to go and that condition damage should be more of a long-term strategy, condi removal will be relatively easier.

>

> That being said, the same build that has ideal boon corruption on Necro is also an ideal Condition application build ... so I would bet with you ... that's an unsustainable situation that Anet should remedy.

 

So you're saying that the primary benefit of a long term strategy is that it would be easier to defeat?

I've played DOT (condition) based classes since '07, primarily Corruption Warlock in that other game.

Yes, I agree DOT's should be a longer term strategy.

They are typically medium to high damage, and applied in multiples.

As the person I quoted points out, the large numbers of conditions that stack are the real problem.

These sorts of effects need to be dedicated spells with specific effects.

An example...

 

Curse of XXXXX

30 yd range

Instant

Curses the target with XXXXX, causing XXXXX damage over 24 sec.

This damage is dealt slowly at first, and builds up as the Curse reaches its full duration.

 

The idea being, 3 - 5 such spells are applied with varying amounts of damage and various characteristics which address whatever applicable mechanics are potentially involved.

They may or may not be cleansable at all or they may need something specific to cleanse them.

But they are neither trivial nor impossible to get rid of or reapply.

They usually have some mechanic built into them forcing the caster to prioritize their usage, including cool downs..

The damage ramp is not a typical feature, it is on a high priority, high cool down spell.

 

Because conditions are used by every class in the game and addressing the mechanics of one class through a game-wide mechanic is a ridiculous idea.

Often they have other effects, mainly some form of leeching.

But if they are X-classes primary form of damage, their primary appeal can't be ease of removal.

I'm amazed and not at all surprised to see statements like this being made.

People calling for nerfs are almost never thinking of the welfare of the game, they want nerfs for their personal convenience.

As a fairly new member of this game's community I have settled on my Necro as my main.

My warlock went through many buffs and nerfs in the other game, but I'm a loyalist.

I'm sure same thing will happen to my Necro.

The main thing is, forum whiners can be a good indicator that something needs a look.

They are not however, unbiased, defensible, data.

Game balance decisions need to be made carefully, to prevent the need for a reaction to making another mess.

 

EDIT:

As I said, I am new enough to this game that I would not presume to comment too much on any specific mechanics in it yet.

That said...

The most highly protested mechanic seems to be the Scourge's F skills.

These are locked to a ground target, it's like the red stuff people say not to stand in...

I could be mistaken but some of this sounds like an L2P issue.

I have a Ranger, specifically built to hunt Scourges, I can drop 'em without getting in range of their stuff.

I have a Deadeye.

There's always a way.

 

EDIT:

This however, I agree with.

I think you will see boon corrupt is only greatly in(m)*balanced because it stacks with the ridiculous numbers of conditions people can apply.