Conditions and what the most recent nerf actually did for wvw players

[Strider Pj.2193]

I feel like, with the exception of Mirage (which Anet stated they view confusion as more about power which is why they didn't hit it) things are slightly better. I have more time to work, and some of my cleanses are coming off cooldown or healing is coming off cooldown so I stand a chance. As a power player, I see a positive move.

 

It wasn't huge by any note, but it was a good step.

 

[Malerian.8435]

I have noticed a difference in my Firebrand. Not as explosive as it once was. Not all that great for small fights. Perfect for Zerg vs Zerg though. I may go back to Vanilla Guard for roaming and small fights.

[Kaiser.9873]

> @"Swamurabi.7890" said:

> If you're still complaining about condi now that the initial condi burst has been reduced by 50% how did you ever play prior to the change???

 

Because they keep losing to condi. The complainers won't stop until condi is completely dead, and then they'll start on power being OP.

[Aeolus.3615]

> @"Kaiser.9873" said:

> > @"Swamurabi.7890" said:

> > If you're still complaining about condi now that the initial condi burst has been reduced by 50% how did you ever play prior to the change???

>

> Because they keep losing to condi. The complainers won't stop until condi is completely dead, and then they'll start on power being OP.

 

Issue is that Anet want's both to be OP.. all that matters is who stacks more of it.

[Strider Pj.2193]

> @"Aeolus.3615" said:

> > @"Kaiser.9873" said:

> > > @"Swamurabi.7890" said:

> > > If you're still complaining about condi now that the initial condi burst has been reduced by 50% how did you ever play prior to the change???

> >

> > Because they keep losing to condi. The complainers won't stop until condi is completely dead, and then they'll start on power being OP.

>

> Issue is that Anet want's both to be OP.. all that matters is who stacks more of it.

 

Fun fact: if you have two things and they are both 'OP' they are not.

[Ubi.4136]

There was a condition nerf? I honestly couldn't tell. (yes I read the patch notes)

[Aeolus.3615]

> @"Strider Pj.2193" said:

> > @"Aeolus.3615" said:

> > > @"Kaiser.9873" said:

> > > > @"Swamurabi.7890" said:

> > > > If you're still complaining about condi now that the initial condi burst has been reduced by 50% how did you ever play prior to the change???

> > >

> > > Because they keep losing to condi. The complainers won't stop until condi is completely dead, and then they'll start on power being OP.

> >

> > Issue is that Anet want's both to be OP.. all that matters is who stacks more of it.

>

> Fun fact: if you have two things and they are both 'OP' they are not.

 

Not enterelly true, it sounds good on paper, but for a game when that game lacks skill design and all that maters is stacking .. might be a burden.

[Strider Pj.2193]

> @"Aeolus.3615" said:

> > @"Strider Pj.2193" said:

> > > @"Aeolus.3615" said:

> > > > @"Kaiser.9873" said:

> > > > > @"Swamurabi.7890" said:

> > > > > If you're still complaining about condi now that the initial condi burst has been reduced by 50% how did you ever play prior to the change???

> > > >

> > > > Because they keep losing to condi. The complainers won't stop until condi is completely dead, and then they'll start on power being OP.

> > >

> > > Issue is that Anet want's both to be OP.. all that matters is who stacks more of it.

> >

> > Fun fact: if you have two things and they are both 'OP' they are not.

>

> Not enterelly true, it sounds good on paper, but for a game when that game lacks skill deisgn.. might be a burden.

 

Lol. It can't be overpowered against something overpowered. There is no logic,

[Aeolus.3615]

> @"Strider Pj.2193" said:

> > @"Aeolus.3615" said:

> > > @"Strider Pj.2193" said:

> > > > @"Aeolus.3615" said:

> > > > > @"Kaiser.9873" said:

> > > > > > @"Swamurabi.7890" said:

> > > > > > If you're still complaining about condi now that the initial condi burst has been reduced by 50% how did you ever play prior to the change???

> > > > >

> > > > > Because they keep losing to condi. The complainers won't stop until condi is completely dead, and then they'll start on power being OP.

> > > >

> > > > Issue is that Anet want's both to be OP.. all that matters is who stacks more of it.

> > >

> > > Fun fact: if you have two things and they are both 'OP' they are not.

> >

> > Not enterelly true, it sounds good on paper, but for a game when that game lacks skill deisgn.. might be a burden.

>

> Lol. It can't be overpowered against something overpowered. There is no logic,

 

it creates just 2 kind of gameplays avaliable.. or mostly one wich is what im refering ... stacking everything as much u can.

[Strider Pj.2193]

> @"Aeolus.3615" said:

> > @"Strider Pj.2193" said:

> > > @"Aeolus.3615" said:

> > > > @"Strider Pj.2193" said:

> > > > > @"Aeolus.3615" said:

> > > > > > @"Kaiser.9873" said:

> > > > > > > @"Swamurabi.7890" said:

> > > > > > > If you're still complaining about condi now that the initial condi burst has been reduced by 50% how did you ever play prior to the change???

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Because they keep losing to condi. The complainers won't stop until condi is completely dead, and then they'll start on power being OP.

> > > > >

> > > > > Issue is that Anet want's both to be OP.. all that matters is who stacks more of it.

> > > >

> > > > Fun fact: if you have two things and they are both 'OP' they are not.

> > >

> > > Not enterelly true, it sounds good on paper, but for a game when that game lacks skill deisgn.. might be a burden.

> >

> > Lol. It can't be overpowered against something overpowered. There is no logic,

>

> it creates just 2 kind of gameplays avaliable.. or mostly one wich is what im refering ... stacking everything as much u can.

 

Ok. No. What are they 'overpowered ' against? Dude, take it elsewhere. You say one thing in every thread. It's the same thing lmao.

 

Present a new argument. Or don't but don't claim two things that oppose each other are overpowered. You make your argument completely invalid.

[Aeolus.3615]

> @"Strider Pj.2193" said:

> > @"Aeolus.3615" said:

> > > @"Strider Pj.2193" said:

> > > > @"Aeolus.3615" said:

> > > > > @"Strider Pj.2193" said:

> > > > > > @"Aeolus.3615" said:

> > > > > > > @"Kaiser.9873" said:

> > > > > > > > @"Swamurabi.7890" said:

> > > > > > > > If you're still complaining about condi now that the initial condi burst has been reduced by 50% how did you ever play prior to the change???

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Because they keep losing to condi. The complainers won't stop until condi is completely dead, and then they'll start on power being OP.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Issue is that Anet want's both to be OP.. all that matters is who stacks more of it.

> > > > >

> > > > > Fun fact: if you have two things and they are both 'OP' they are not.

> > > >

> > > > Not enterelly true, it sounds good on paper, but for a game when that game lacks skill deisgn.. might be a burden.

> > >

> > > Lol. It can't be overpowered against something overpowered. There is no logic,

> >

> > it creates just 2 kind of gameplays avaliable.. or mostly one wich is what im refering ... stacking everything as much u can.

>

> Ok. No. What are they 'overpowered ' against? Dude, take it elsewhere. You say one thing in every thread. It's the same thing lmao.

>

> Present a new argument. Or don't but don't claim two things that oppose each other are overpowered. You make your argument completely invalid.

 

im getting redundanct like Anet... on skill design everything is condi or boon stacking mostly...all that matters is stacking...

 

If boons and condis are OP that does not means game is balanced, it just means that the game is about stacking them, wich is what i was refering above.

 

Boon rip and convert is the counter of boons, not condi.

 

Saying condi is the opose side of boons that means direct damage is as well the oposite side of boons :\.. wich none are just because they are ways of inflict damage.

 

 

 

 

 

[TwilightSoul.9048]

> @"fieraviolet.3160" said:

> So what I'm asking to be discussed I suppose, is can we please make the ramp up of conditions a bit slower?

 

This is exactly what they did last patch, they didn't make any drastic changes (which is good) but they did slow down the ramp up of conditions.

I'm not sure why you experienced dying faster and that is hard to compare since you likely did not have exactly the same encounters pre and post patch to compare but I would assume that you've faced different, maybe stronger opponents which might be part of the reason you died faster and maybe, knowing that conditions got nerfed, you unconsciously waited a tiny bit longer on your clears than you usually would and took more damage that way.

Conditions are still very strong as they are and since there are so many condi builds out there in WvW the ramp up is still incredibly fast and conditions are quickly reapplied to an extend that can barely be met with condi clears and regen/heal, on the other hand we as a community (at least from my experience) have not adapted to the new meta very well yet, only on the offense. Most common WvW Builds have a lot more anti-condi tag options than we currently utilize. Meta adaptions are always a slow progress especially with a, on average, not so competitive community like we have in WvW where people like what they do and don't want to adapt to a new playstyle too much. For example, we could encourage more players to pick up stuff ele's in the backline, healing rain is a great tool against conditions and is currently (again from my experience) beeing under utilized. Guardians are already incredibly popular in WvW and I honestly don't think I have to give anyone a rundown of all the possible anti condi tools a guardian can have available with a few adaptations. Necro has some interesting anti-condi tools as well, revenant too and those are just the few "common" wvw classes.

 

I'm not saying we can just switch around a little with our builds and suddenly condis are irrelevant but I do believe that we can tune them down from beeing incredibly dominating to them beeing a valid alternative to power damage. Which is great in my opinion for better sustained damage. I really like having an alternative to power even though I only play power builds in WvW it's an interesting different perspective.

 

And even though I don't enjoy beeing bursted with condis either I do strongly believe that we could deal with them fairly well given some time to adapt. Unfortunatly I don't see many people trying to adapt, most people seem to be content with running their silly hammer rev's bunch of guardians and staff necros and just run around with the same build for years on and on.

However I also think that condis currently are still too bursty and need to be reduced a tiny bit more, maybe make up for their incredible stack size by reducing condi damage in WvW by a few percent.

[XenesisII.1540]

> @"DeadlySynz.3471" said:

> It's because they are doing more damage; it's a case of players should have thought long and hard before complaining. Lets be real here, when people are talking conditions they are talking scourge, or at least the vast majority of the time they are talking scourge. Scourge deals torment en mass, and torment does more damage the more people move around. Condition time has been** lengthened** in favor of reducing burstiness which has to be done to keep things equal (condition deals the same damage over time that physical does in 1 hit). The fact that torment has been lengthened means that unless people are constantly and actively clearing, they are going to be taking hella damage moving around because they always have torment on them. You can click on any enemy around the battle field at any given time and they always seem to have torment. People also have to factor in that some classes deal more damage for each condition an enemy has on them.

>

> People failed to realize this before, it's not that conditions are a problem, it's when multiple classes are dumping conditions on 1 person. This is no different than a bunch melee attacking 1 player at a time or a bunch of range focusing down someone at a time. Same as standing under multiple meteor showers, it's all the same.

>

> The complaining players basically shot themselves in the foot with this one because there is nowhere else Anet can go with conditions now. They have no track record of reversing things, and conditions get exponentially worse the longer you lengthen them and their damage has to be equal to that of physical but over time. If they reduce damage and lengthen them further; one could have 20-30 seconds of constant torment and confusion at any given time; have fun with that one. You want the conditions bursty, that way you don't have to deal with the ones whom deal extra damage on movement or skill use.

>

 

I like how you're blaming players for a change that they had no input in, and had no power in changing.

 

Where did players complain to anet about moving the damage of conditions from the front to the back side of the duration?

 

Players wanted condition damaged nerfed, they wanted durations nerfed, they wanted the mass application of them nerfed, but anet came up with the fix to move the damage so it wasn't as bursty. Did players ask anet to create even worse scourge corruption for the game? no that was also anet's brilliant plan for necros.

 

Leave it to anet not to look at how this affects all their conditions in the game.

 

Either way, conditions turn gw2 combat into a garbage system, doesn't matter how many changes they make to try and keep it viable.

 

 

> Then how do you deal with scourges? Easy, get off melee and grab a ranged class, easy peasy.

 

Greatest solution ever presented in the forums, to deal with scourges get off the class you actually want to play and go pirate ship instead. YaY!

[Roxanne.6140]

Lol sometimes I get the feeling that all these people who complain about conditions just don't want to spend the effort to get the glitzy stats so they want it nerfed to the ground back into good ole zerker days.

 

*braces for incoming infraction* does anyone feel that the Griffon mount is way too op? I mean comon, most maps here are challenging because they pose vertical challenges. Now this mount simply glides over them with no effort? Doesn't this nerf like 90% of all maps and especially tangled depths? This is way too op. Nerf pls. I suggest your let it gently descend by 5% vertical height each flap.