masterfan.8375 Posted December 18, 2017 Share Posted December 18, 2017 Can someone from ANet explain to me why are you forcing us to play solo all the time? And please don't compare Tournaments to Team Queue, as tournaments happen every few hours, and you can queue when ever you want. Have 2 separate leaderboards, one for solo, and one for team. Just like in 2014. I know that there was poll whether we want solo or team queue, and solo won. But come on... that happened more than 6 months ago. You never consider actual requests by the community. Who cares about new PvP weapon skins or new so called '2.5' armour. Why are you spending your time and resources on that, while your game is dying? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morwath.9817 Posted December 18, 2017 Share Posted December 18, 2017 > @"masterfan.8375" said: > Can someone from ANet explain to me why are you forcing us to play solo all the time? And please don't compare Tournaments to Team Queue, as tournaments happen every few hours, and you can queue when ever you want. > > Have 2 separate leaderboards, one for solo, and one for team. Just like in 2014. > I know that there was poll whether we want solo or team queue, and solo won. But come on... that happened more than 6 months ago. > You never consider actual requests by the community. Who cares about new PvP weapon skins or new so called '2.5' armour. Why are you spending your time and resources on that, while your game is dying? Ooo, as far as Quaggan knows, even for Unranked ~93% of population is soloQ. Sooo, Quaggan haz to ask ze question, would you be willing to wait up to 30 minutes to face other preamde? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
masterfan.8375 Posted December 18, 2017 Author Share Posted December 18, 2017 > @"Morwath.9817" said: > > @"masterfan.8375" said: > > Can someone from ANet explain to me why are you forcing us to play solo all the time? And please don't compare Tournaments to Team Queue, as tournaments happen every few hours, and you can queue when ever you want. > > > > Have 2 separate leaderboards, one for solo, and one for team. Just like in 2014. > > I know that there was poll whether we want solo or team queue, and solo won. But come on... that happened more than 6 months ago. > > You never consider actual requests by the community. Who cares about new PvP weapon skins or new so called '2.5' armour. Why are you spending your time and resources on that, while your game is dying? > > Ooo, as far as Quaggan knows, even for Unranked ~93% of population is soloQ. > Sooo, Quaggan haz to ask ze question, would you be willing to wait up to 30 minutes to face other preamde? That's not correct. Team Queue population will grow eventually. If you played during the time when there was Team Queue, you would've known that pops didn't take long Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shadowpass.4236 Posted December 18, 2017 Share Posted December 18, 2017 > @"Morwath.9817" said: > > @"masterfan.8375" said: > > Can someone from ANet explain to me why are you forcing us to play solo all the time? And please don't compare Tournaments to Team Queue, as tournaments happen every few hours, and you can queue when ever you want. > > > > Have 2 separate leaderboards, one for solo, and one for team. Just like in 2014. > > I know that there was poll whether we want solo or team queue, and solo won. But come on... that happened more than 6 months ago. > > You never consider actual requests by the community. Who cares about new PvP weapon skins or new so called '2.5' armour. Why are you spending your time and resources on that, while your game is dying? > > Ooo, as far as Quaggan knows, even for Unranked ~93% of population is soloQ. > Sooo, Quaggan haz to ask ze question, would you be willing to wait up to 30 minutes to face other preamde? Ques took maybe 15 minutes TOPS in the extreme cases. The average was 3-7 minutes which isn't bad for a quality match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morwath.9817 Posted December 18, 2017 Share Posted December 18, 2017 > @"masterfan.8375" said: > That's not correct. Team Queue population will grow eventually. If you played during the time when there was Team Queue, you would've known that pops didn't take long Ooo, but we had more sPvP players around that day, than today. Team que population would rather drop eventually, because how many times you can get paired with **55 monks** in a row. Quaggan doubts many teams could endure getting stomped over and over. Not that Quaggan has anything against team que as long as its separated from solo que, but as Quaggan pointed out, there aren't probably enough players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
masterfan.8375 Posted December 18, 2017 Author Share Posted December 18, 2017 > @"Morwath.9817" said: > > @"masterfan.8375" said: > > That's not correct. Team Queue population will grow eventually. If you played during the time when there was Team Queue, you would've known that pops didn't take long > > Ooo, but we had more sPvP players around that day, than today. > Team que population would rather drop eventually, because how many times you can get paired with **55 monks** in a row. Quaggan doubts many teams could endure getting stomped over and over. > > Not that Quaggan has anything against team que as long as its separated from solo que, but as Quaggan pointed out, there aren't probably enough players. > > I'll rather play against top teams using TS, than with bunch of non coordinated noobs in solo q. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genesis.5169 Posted December 18, 2017 Share Posted December 18, 2017 I'm for bringing back teams in queue, i'm not for splitting the queue though, people should accept that organized teams will beat them just like in WvW organized servers generally win. It would motivate serious pvp'ers to team up more bringing more teams into tournaments might even revive the competitive scene. If Anet keep punishing regular people for teaming up tournaments will never ever leave its state because people have no motivation in normal queue _(where folks start out)_ to team up in the first place. I always found it kinda funny that anet released tournaments in a game where there's no foundation for it, seems like they thought we will just put rewards and they will come, PvP isn't like PvE where people will just PuG up and hope the guy next to him has experience, pvp gets and is personal you want the guy next to you to know whats up, most of the time when you do tournaments or ranked games it with guys/girls you've been playing with for awhile and you've learned about there skill level. _Moral of the story you can't stifle team creating in your game and expect teams to be ready to do tournaments or even consider to do them PvP statics takes far more time to build then PvE statics. While we play a team focused game mode at that._ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rufo.3716 Posted December 18, 2017 Share Posted December 18, 2017 Don't think the population is there for team Q's. In order for people in team Q not to wait all day they would have to put them against PUGs and then the PUGs will get pissed. Lose lose situation there. Might as well just keep it at solo Q. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morwath.9817 Posted December 18, 2017 Share Posted December 18, 2017 > @"Genesis.5169" said: > I'm for bring back teams in queue, i'm not for splitting the queue though, people should accept that organized teams will beat them just like in WvW organized servers generally win. It would motivate serious pvp'ers to team up more bringing more teams into tournaments might even revive the competitive scene. If Anet keep punishing regular people for teaming up tournaments will never ever leave its state because people have no motivation in normal queue _(where folks start out)_ to team up in the first place. > > I always found it kinda funny that anet released tournaments in a game where there's no foundation for it, seems like they thought we will just put rewards and they will come, PvP isn't like PvE where people will just PuG up and hope the guy next to him has experience, pvp gets and is personal you want the guy next to you to know whats up, most of the time when you do tournaments or ranked games it with guys/girls you've been playing with for awhile and you've learned about there skill level. > > _Moral of the story you can't stifle team creating in your game and expect teams to be ready to do tournaments or even consider to do them PvP statics takes far more time to build then PvE statics. While we play a team focused game mode at that._ Foooo, you should already understand that people won't accept it, just leave the game, like many already did including Quaggan when soloQ and teamQ were merged. Quaggan came back only because they removed premades, as in early seasons once you got high enough MMR you would be placed against premades in around half of games, if not in the most of them, as premades used to be MMR wise on pair with high MMR soloQ players. Soooo, there were few choices a) ~~make your own premade~~ , b) ~~struggle against premades~~ , c) quit as there is no reason to accept auto lose games as it isn't fun, and we after all play for fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genesis.5169 Posted December 18, 2017 Share Posted December 18, 2017 > @"Morwath.9817" said: > > @"Genesis.5169" said: > > I'm for bring back teams in queue, i'm not for splitting the queue though, people should accept that organized teams will beat them just like in WvW organized servers generally win. It would motivate serious pvp'ers to team up more bringing more teams into tournaments might even revive the competitive scene. If Anet keep punishing regular people for teaming up tournaments will never ever leave its state because people have no motivation in normal queue _(where folks start out)_ to team up in the first place. > > > > I always found it kinda funny that anet released tournaments in a game where there's no foundation for it, seems like they thought we will just put rewards and they will come, PvP isn't like PvE where people will just PuG up and hope the guy next to him has experience, pvp gets and is personal you want the guy next to you to know whats up, most of the time when you do tournaments or ranked games it with guys/girls you've been playing with for awhile and you've learned about there skill level. > > > > _Moral of the story you can't stifle team creating in your game and expect teams to be ready to do tournaments or even consider to do them PvP statics takes far more time to build then PvE statics. While we play a team focused game mode at that._ > > Foooo, you should already understand that people won't accept it, just leave the game, like many already did including Quaggan when soloQ and teamQ were merged. Quaggan came back only because they removed premades, as in early seasons once you got high enough MMR you would be placed against premades in around half of games, if not in the most of them, as premades used to be MMR wise on pair with high MMR soloQ players. Soooo, there were few choices a) ~~make your own premade~~ , b) ~~struggle against premades~~ , c) quit as there is no reason to accept auto lose games as it isn't fun, and we after all play for fun. > > I don't see how that's any different from every other competitive game. No team is gonna team up and suddenly start kicking ass. There needs to be a time for growing before your premade can win consistently. I'm sorry for you quitting but if it is bad to not allow teams in competitive game modes that houses solo queue players too gw2 wouldn't be the outlier and the majority of games across all genres of gaming. I don't care for that argument that people will leave after losing to premades, this isn't the case for 99% of every other game on the market i don't see how gw2 is any different from the rest of the market when it comes to its pvp content. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morwath.9817 Posted December 18, 2017 Share Posted December 18, 2017 > @"Genesis.5169" said: > > @"Morwath.9817" said: > > > @"Genesis.5169" said: > > > I'm for bring back teams in queue, i'm not for splitting the queue though, people should accept that organized teams will beat them just like in WvW organized servers generally win. It would motivate serious pvp'ers to team up more bringing more teams into tournaments might even revive the competitive scene. If Anet keep punishing regular people for teaming up tournaments will never ever leave its state because people have no motivation in normal queue _(where folks start out)_ to team up in the first place. > > > > > > I always found it kinda funny that anet released tournaments in a game where there's no foundation for it, seems like they thought we will just put rewards and they will come, PvP isn't like PvE where people will just PuG up and hope the guy next to him has experience, pvp gets and is personal you want the guy next to you to know whats up, most of the time when you do tournaments or ranked games it with guys/girls you've been playing with for awhile and you've learned about there skill level. > > > > > > _Moral of the story you can't stifle team creating in your game and expect teams to be ready to do tournaments or even consider to do them PvP statics takes far more time to build then PvE statics. While we play a team focused game mode at that._ > > > > Foooo, you should already understand that people won't accept it, just leave the game, like many already did including Quaggan when soloQ and teamQ were merged. Quaggan came back only because they removed premades, as in early seasons once you got high enough MMR you would be placed against premades in around half of games, if not in the most of them, as premades used to be MMR wise on pair with high MMR soloQ players. Soooo, there were few choices a) ~~make your own premade~~ , b) ~~struggle against premades~~ , c) quit as there is no reason to accept auto lose games as it isn't fun, and we after all play for fun. > > > > > > I don't see how that's any different from every other competitive game. No team is gonna team up and suddenly start kicking kitten. There needs to be a time for growing before your premade can win consistently. I'm sorry for you quitting but if it is bad to not allow teams in competitive game modes that houses solo queue players too gw2 wouldn't be the outlier and the majority of games across all genres of gaming. > > I don't care for that argument that people will leave after losing to premades, this isn't the case for 99% of every other game on the market i don't see how gw2 is any different from the rest of the market when it comes to its pvp content. **No competitive game** will put soloQ player vs 5 man premade, kek. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genesis.5169 Posted December 18, 2017 Share Posted December 18, 2017 > @"Morwath.9817" said: > > @"Genesis.5169" said: > > > @"Morwath.9817" said: > > > > @"Genesis.5169" said: > > > > I'm for bring back teams in queue, i'm not for splitting the queue though, people should accept that organized teams will beat them just like in WvW organized servers generally win. It would motivate serious pvp'ers to team up more bringing more teams into tournaments might even revive the competitive scene. If Anet keep punishing regular people for teaming up tournaments will never ever leave its state because people have no motivation in normal queue _(where folks start out)_ to team up in the first place. > > > > > > > > I always found it kinda funny that anet released tournaments in a game where there's no foundation for it, seems like they thought we will just put rewards and they will come, PvP isn't like PvE where people will just PuG up and hope the guy next to him has experience, pvp gets and is personal you want the guy next to you to know whats up, most of the time when you do tournaments or ranked games it with guys/girls you've been playing with for awhile and you've learned about there skill level. > > > > > > > > _Moral of the story you can't stifle team creating in your game and expect teams to be ready to do tournaments or even consider to do them PvP statics takes far more time to build then PvE statics. While we play a team focused game mode at that._ > > > > > > Foooo, you should already understand that people won't accept it, just leave the game, like many already did including Quaggan when soloQ and teamQ were merged. Quaggan came back only because they removed premades, as in early seasons once you got high enough MMR you would be placed against premades in around half of games, if not in the most of them, as premades used to be MMR wise on pair with high MMR soloQ players. Soooo, there were few choices a) ~~make your own premade~~ , b) ~~struggle against premades~~ , c) quit as there is no reason to accept auto lose games as it isn't fun, and we after all play for fun. > > > > > > > > > > I don't see how that's any different from every other competitive game. No team is gonna team up and suddenly start kicking kitten. There needs to be a time for growing before your premade can win consistently. I'm sorry for you quitting but if it is bad to not allow teams in competitive game modes that houses solo queue players too gw2 wouldn't be the outlier and the majority of games across all genres of gaming. > > > > I don't care for that argument that people will leave after losing to premades, this isn't the case for 99% of every other game on the market i don't see how gw2 is any different from the rest of the market when it comes to its pvp content. > > **No competitive game** will put soloQ player vs 5 man premade, kek. Dota2 Counter Strike Super Smash Bros. 4 GunZ TERA Skyforge I just named 6 of the top of my head that allows for teams and solo's to be in the same queue in and off ranked, organized tournaments are a different story but queues with Matchmaking usually allow both in the same queue. And i could name more game's that are built around PvP exclusively like rocket league but i'm trying to be fair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morwath.9817 Posted December 18, 2017 Share Posted December 18, 2017 > @"Genesis.5169" said: > Dota2 > Counter Strike > Super Smash Bros. 4 > GunZ > TERA > Skyforge > > I just named 6 of the top of my head that allows for teams and solo's to be in the same queue in and off ranked, organized tournaments are a different story but queues with Matchmaking usually allow both in the same queue. > Quaggan had to ask a friend who plays Dota2 on daily basis, and he said what you said isn't true, as a) you can enable strict solo matchmaking; b) you can premade only until certain rank. Quaggan is too lazy to verify for CS, and rest games you listed Quaggan wouldn't even consider "competitive" - Dota2, LoL and such, those are competitive games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genesis.5169 Posted December 19, 2017 Share Posted December 19, 2017 > @"Morwath.9817" said: > > @"Genesis.5169" said: > > > Dota2 > > Counter Strike > > Super Smash Bros. 4 > > GunZ > > TERA > > Skyforge > > > > I just named 6 of the top of my head that allows for teams and solo's to be in the same queue in and off ranked, organized tournaments are a different story but queues with Matchmaking usually allow both in the same queue. > > > > Quaggan had to ask a friend who plays Dota2 on daily basis, and he said what you said isn't true, as a) you can enable strict solo matchmaking; b) you can premade only until certain rank. > Quaggan is too lazy to verify for CS, and rest games you listed Quaggan wouldn't even consider "competitive" - Dota2, LoL and such, those are competitive games.  So like, thats an option in advanced that was a recent addition that is automatically turned off that one uses, not only are you mischaracterizing the game after adding after 4 years you lied and said you can premade only to a certain rank which is false. I have nearly 5k hours on dota2 over 10k on dota1 in the warcraft 3 days you picked the wrong, game to get wrong on a example man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morwath.9817 Posted December 19, 2017 Share Posted December 19, 2017 > @"Genesis.5169" said: > > @"Morwath.9817" said: > > > @"Genesis.5169" said: > > > > > Dota2 > > > Counter Strike > > > Super Smash Bros. 4 > > > GunZ > > > TERA > > > Skyforge > > > > > > I just named 6 of the top of my head that allows for teams and solo's to be in the same queue in and off ranked, organized tournaments are a different story but queues with Matchmaking usually allow both in the same queue. > > > > > > > Quaggan had to ask a friend who plays Dota2 on daily basis, and he said what you said isn't true, as a) you can enable strict solo matchmaking; b) you can premade only until certain rank. > > Quaggan is too lazy to verify for CS, and rest games you listed Quaggan wouldn't even consider "competitive" - Dota2, LoL and such, those are competitive games. > >  > So like, thats an option in advanced that was a recent addition that is automatically turned off that one uses, not only are you characterizing the game after adding after 4 years you lied and said you can premade only to a certain rank which is false. > > I have nearly 5k hours on dota2 over 10k on dota1 in the warcraft 3 days you picked the wrong, game to get wrong on a example man. Ooo, your playtime means nothing, as it doesn't matter if you consider something "recent addition", what matters is fact you named a game that prevents soloQ vs premade as long as soloQ doesn't want to play vs premade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genesis.5169 Posted December 19, 2017 Share Posted December 19, 2017 > @"Morwath.9817" said: > > @"Genesis.5169" said: > > > @"Morwath.9817" said: > > > > @"Genesis.5169" said: > > > > > > > Dota2 > > > > Counter Strike > > > > Super Smash Bros. 4 > > > > GunZ > > > > TERA > > > > Skyforge > > > > > > > > I just named 6 of the top of my head that allows for teams and solo's to be in the same queue in and off ranked, organized tournaments are a different story but queues with Matchmaking usually allow both in the same queue. > > > > > > > > > > Quaggan had to ask a friend who plays Dota2 on daily basis, and he said what you said isn't true, as a) you can enable strict solo matchmaking; b) you can premade only until certain rank. > > > Quaggan is too lazy to verify for CS, and rest games you listed Quaggan wouldn't even consider "competitive" - Dota2, LoL and such, those are competitive games. > > > >  > > So like, thats an option in advanced that was a recent addition that is automatically turned off that one uses, not only are you characterizing the game after adding after 4 years you lied and said you can premade only to a certain rank which is false. > > > > I have nearly 5k hours on dota2 over 10k on dota1 in the warcraft 3 days you picked the wrong, game to get wrong on a example man. > > Ooo, your playtime means nothing, as it doesn't matter if you consider something "recent addition", what matters is fact you named a game that prevents soloQ vs premade as long as soloQ doesn't want to play vs premade. They don't prevent it, the game gives you an option for it which is turned of by default which was released a month or two ago. My play time gives me justification to explain to you how your deeply mischaracterizing this and you omitted the part where you lied about teams being barred at higher MMR. If your arguing for the option to omit your self from the team queue that's a no go there's not enough teams around to support that is this game, and again dota2 did that after 4-5 years i think i've been playing since 2012 maybe 2013 been on that game for awhile. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zinkz.7045 Posted December 19, 2017 Share Posted December 19, 2017 > @"Genesis.5169" said: > I don't care for that argument that people will leave after losing to premades, this isn't the case for 99% of every other game on the market i don't see how gw2 is any different from the rest of the market when it comes to its pvp content. You really don't see how GW2 is different to say LoL? Let's start with the obvious, the size of the playerbase, LoL last time I checked had 65 million+ active players each month, now even if GW2 and LoL were identical games, the mere fact that LoL has a massive population and GW2's PvP population is tiny, means that if both had mixed "dynamic" queues LoL's matchmaking would be vastly superior, so on that basis alone mixed queues work vastly better in LoL (and other successful PvP games with far more players like CS:GO, DOTA 2, etc) than they would ever work in GW2. Then you have how the design of the game impacts matchmaking, in many games like MOBAs, class based shooters, etc, you have a pick phase (sometimes ban also), and you have specific roles, this reduces the problem that you get in GW2 of a pre-made having a very good comp (or full cheese as it otherwise known) and a randomly assembled group have sub-par comp which only exacerbates the problem of pre-mades vs random groups. It also common in games that you can only pick one of each class/hero/champ, etc, again this reduces the advantage of pre-mades because in a game like GW2 you can stack OP cheese of the month, which is doubly an issue in GW2 as the combat is relatively low skill capped which means cheese counts for a lot, and it is easy for people to roll whatever is broken OP. Same thing with many other games with mixed queues when you look at ratings and group composition, e.g - if one group is three solos + 2 man pre-made, it is extraordinarily common for the other team to mirror this composition, now compare that to GW2 a game where you've had ESO players in a pre-made vs solo team, it is laughable. Then you have communication, some games (Overwatch for example) have built in VOIP, others have really good tools for communication (SMITE has audio commands you can keybind to communicate with your team), these narrow the gap between pre-mades on VOIP, GW2 on the other hand has a very basic ping system and typing in chat... And even with all that, when LoL dropped solo queue for a while, it had to bring it back, because at high MMR dynamic queue failed miserably, even in a game with 65 million players, specific roles, much tighter rules for matchmaking, etc, and you think dynamic queue works in a game like GW2... P.S - Competitive PvP players are not playing 5 year old MMORPGs, these are a joke as competitive PvP games, oh, and no player that is actually competitive wants to go to the trouble of forming a team to then face pugs, that you seem to be okay with that idea should be a hint that you aren't a competitive PvP player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genesis.5169 Posted December 19, 2017 Share Posted December 19, 2017 > @"zinkz.7045" said: > > @"Genesis.5169" said: > > I don't care for that argument that people will leave after losing to premades, this isn't the case for 99% of every other game on the market i don't see how gw2 is any different from the rest of the market when it comes to its pvp content. > > You really don't see how GW2 is different to say LoL? > > Let's start with the obvious, the size of the playerbase, LoL last time I checked had 65 million+ active players each month, now even if GW2 and LoL were identical games, the mere fact that LoL has a massive population and GW2's PvP population is tiny, means that if both had mixed "dynamic" queues LoL's matchmaking would be vastly superior, so on that basis alone mixed queues work vastly better in LoL (and other successful PvP games with far more players like CS:GO, DOTA 2, etc) than they would ever work in GW2. > > Then you have how the design of the game impacts matchmaking, in many games like MOBAs, class based shooters, etc, you have a pick phase (sometimes ban also), and you have specific roles, this reduces the problem that you get in GW2 of a pre-made having a very good comp (or full cheese as it otherwise known) and a randomly assembled group have sub-par comp which only exacerbates the problem of pre-mades vs random groups. > > Beyond that you have the strictness of the matchmaking, long ago I played DOTA 2, so for example in that if I queued up for ranked with others then the lowest MMR in the group had to be within a certain amount (I think it was 2000) of the highest players's MMR in the group, this obvioulsy leads to better matchmaking, where as in GW2... > > Same thing with many other games with mixed queues when you look at ratings and group composition, e.g - if one group is three solos + 2 man pre-made, it is extraordinarily common for the other team to mirror this composition, now compare that to GW2 a game where you've had ESO players in a pre-made vs solo team, it is laughable. > > Then you have communication, some games (Overwatch for example) have built in VOIP, others have really good tools for communication (SMITE has audio commands you can keybind to communicate with your team), these narrow the gap between pre-mades on VOIP, GW2 on the other hand has a very basic ping system and typing in chat... > > And even with all that, when LoL dropped solo queue for a while, it had to bring it back, because at high MMR dynamic queue failed miserably, even in a game with 65 million players, specific roles, much tighter rules for matchmaking, etc, and you think dynamic queue works in a game like GW2... > 1. There is prep time in GW2 PvP and WvW that point is invalid. 2. I believe the player base issue and the lack of teams is a direct result of destroying teams, so while this point my not be invalid the cornerstone of my argument is opposed to this because i am "pro team" 3. Yep LoL brought it back because removing team queue in a team game destroys the competitive scene because you'll only see the same old established teams play they will eventually leave for newer games and the community will bleed out, you need team making so people can discover each other, i know the vast majority of the teams will never make it to pro but some of them will and the others that played against them will be motivated to play harder because they saw a team come up that wasn't established come out and win an international. 4. Guidwars 2 does have roles just not Dev Defined, there are bunkers, de-capers, and supports idk if we are playing the same game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zinkz.7045 Posted December 19, 2017 Share Posted December 19, 2017 > @"Genesis.5169" said: > > @"zinkz.7045" said: > > > @"Genesis.5169" said: > > > I don't care for that argument that people will leave after losing to premades, this isn't the case for 99% of every other game on the market i don't see how gw2 is any different from the rest of the market when it comes to its pvp content. > > > > You really don't see how GW2 is different to say LoL? > > > > Let's start with the obvious, the size of the playerbase, LoL last time I checked had 65 million+ active players each month, now even if GW2 and LoL were identical games, the mere fact that LoL has a massive population and GW2's PvP population is tiny, means that if both had mixed "dynamic" queues LoL's matchmaking would be vastly superior, so on that basis alone mixed queues work vastly better in LoL (and other successful PvP games with far more players like CS:GO, DOTA 2, etc) than they would ever work in GW2. > > > > Then you have how the design of the game impacts matchmaking, in many games like MOBAs, class based shooters, etc, you have a pick phase (sometimes ban also), and you have specific roles, this reduces the problem that you get in GW2 of a pre-made having a very good comp (or full cheese as it otherwise known) and a randomly assembled group have sub-par comp which only exacerbates the problem of pre-mades vs random groups. > > > > Beyond that you have the strictness of the matchmaking, long ago I played DOTA 2, so for example in that if I queued up for ranked with others then the lowest MMR in the group had to be within a certain amount (I think it was 2000) of the highest players's MMR in the group, this obvioulsy leads to better matchmaking, where as in GW2... > > > > Same thing with many other games with mixed queues when you look at ratings and group composition, e.g - if one group is three solos + 2 man pre-made, it is extraordinarily common for the other team to mirror this composition, now compare that to GW2 a game where you've had ESO players in a pre-made vs solo team, it is laughable. > > > > Then you have communication, some games (Overwatch for example) have built in VOIP, others have really good tools for communication (SMITE has audio commands you can keybind to communicate with your team), these narrow the gap between pre-mades on VOIP, GW2 on the other hand has a very basic ping system and typing in chat... > > > > And even with all that, when LoL dropped solo queue for a while, it had to bring it back, because at high MMR dynamic queue failed miserably, even in a game with 65 million players, specific roles, much tighter rules for matchmaking, etc, and you think dynamic queue works in a game like GW2... > > > > 1. There is prep time in GW2 PvP and WvW that point is invalid. No it is not invalid, prep time is much 'softer' than having specific roles, not being able to stack classes/champs, etc, having picks/bans, being able to select preferred roles when you queue, etc, thus there is more commonly a bigger difference in terms of composition between pre-mades / pugs in a game like GW2 where people are not forced to play something specific or in consideration of the rest of the team in any real way and a lot of other games that are more strict on these things. > 2. I believe the player base issue and the lack of teams is a direct result of destroying teams, so while this point my not be invalid the cornerstone of my argument is opposed to this because i am "pro team". Nonsense, the GW2 PvP playerbase has been in decline most of the game, it is why they started bribing PvE players in years ago to try and make up the numbers, team queue did nothing to reverse that, as a "competitive" system team queue was a joke, where teams had to go and do scrims to get decent matches, because the chances of getting them in team queue were often minimal. > 3. Yep LoL brought it back because removing team queue in a team game destroys the competitive scene because you'll only see the same old established teams play they will eventually leave for newer games and the community will bleed out, you need team making so people can discover each other, i know the vast majority of the teams will never make it to pro but some of them will and the others that played against them will be motivated to play harder because they saw a team come up that wasn't established come out and win an international. They bought solo queue back, because there is no way to create balanced matches at high MMR by mixing pre-mades and non-premades, so you just get kitten noncompetitive matches, something which genuinely competitve PvP players don't want. > 4. Guidwars 2 does have roles just not Dev Defined, there are bunkers, de-capers, and supports idk if we are playing the same game. Not really comparable, there are roles with in PvP, but classes can play different roles depending on their build, and then even within that there have been builds that sort of hybridized roles, where as a lot of games have classes with more hard roles they play and enforces those in pick phases or when you queue as a role, there is none of that in GW2, which makes for a bigger gap between pre-made and pug. There is a reason that games vastly more competitive, vastly more focused on PvP like MOBAs, shooters, etc still cater to solo/duo players rather than simply teams, because that is how the vast majority of players in these games play either all the time or at least part of the time, the people who want to queue as a 5 man team most of the time are a tiny minority even in games that dish out millions of dollars in prize money to teams. The idea that a 5 year old MMORPG in decline, a game that isn't specifically focused on PvP, to the point that in terms of balance patches, etc it is laughably run, that is largely aimed at a casual playerbase, and which was losing players even when it had a team queue, is somehow going to rejuvenate PvP by bringing back team queue and removing other options is simply ludicrous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yanniell.1236 Posted December 19, 2017 Share Posted December 19, 2017 Nah. Only if 5 q players fight another 5 q players, otherwise, hell no. Dont want to go through that shit again, fighting in a full SoloQ team against 3+ party on the other side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genesis.5169 Posted December 19, 2017 Share Posted December 19, 2017 > @"zinkz.7045" said: > > @"Genesis.5169" said: > > > @"zinkz.7045" said: > > > > @"Genesis.5169" said: > > > > I don't care for that argument that people will leave after losing to premades, this isn't the case for 99% of every other game on the market i don't see how gw2 is any different from the rest of the market when it comes to its pvp content. > > > > > > You really don't see how GW2 is different to say LoL? > > > > > > Let's start with the obvious, the size of the playerbase, LoL last time I checked had 65 million+ active players each month, now even if GW2 and LoL were identical games, the mere fact that LoL has a massive population and GW2's PvP population is tiny, means that if both had mixed "dynamic" queues LoL's matchmaking would be vastly superior, so on that basis alone mixed queues work vastly better in LoL (and other successful PvP games with far more players like CS:GO, DOTA 2, etc) than they would ever work in GW2. > > > > > > Then you have how the design of the game impacts matchmaking, in many games like MOBAs, class based shooters, etc, you have a pick phase (sometimes ban also), and you have specific roles, this reduces the problem that you get in GW2 of a pre-made having a very good comp (or full cheese as it otherwise known) and a randomly assembled group have sub-par comp which only exacerbates the problem of pre-mades vs random groups. > > > > > > Beyond that you have the strictness of the matchmaking, long ago I played DOTA 2, so for example in that if I queued up for ranked with others then the lowest MMR in the group had to be within a certain amount (I think it was 2000) of the highest players's MMR in the group, this obvioulsy leads to better matchmaking, where as in GW2... > > > > > > Same thing with many other games with mixed queues when you look at ratings and group composition, e.g - if one group is three solos + 2 man pre-made, it is extraordinarily common for the other team to mirror this composition, now compare that to GW2 a game where you've had ESO players in a pre-made vs solo team, it is laughable. > > > > > > Then you have communication, some games (Overwatch for example) have built in VOIP, others have really good tools for communication (SMITE has audio commands you can keybind to communicate with your team), these narrow the gap between pre-mades on VOIP, GW2 on the other hand has a very basic ping system and typing in chat... > > > > > > And even with all that, when LoL dropped solo queue for a while, it had to bring it back, because at high MMR dynamic queue failed miserably, even in a game with 65 million players, specific roles, much tighter rules for matchmaking, etc, and you think dynamic queue works in a game like GW2... > > > > > > > 1. There is prep time in GW2 PvP and WvW that point is invalid. > > No it is not invalid, prep time is much 'softer' than having specific roles, not being able to stack classes/champs, etc, having bans, thus there is a bigger difference in terms of composition between pre-mades / pugs in a game like GW2 where people are not forced in any real way and a lot of other games that are more strict on these things. > > > 2. I believe the player base issue and the lack of teams is a direct result of destroying teams, so while this point my not be invalid the cornerstone of my argument is opposed to this because i am "pro team". > > Nonsense, the GW2 PvP playerbase has been in decline most of the game, it is why they started bribing PvE players in years ago to try and make up the numbers, team queue did nothing to reverse that, as a "competitive" system team queue was a joke, where teams had to go and do scrims to get decent matches, because the chances of getting them in team queue were often minimal. > > > 3. Yep LoL brought it back because removing team queue in a team game destroys the competitive scene because you'll only see the same old established teams play they will eventually leave for newer games and the community will bleed out, you need team making so people can discover each other, i know the vast majority of the teams will never make it to pro but some of them will and the others that played against them will be motivated to play harder because they saw a team come up that wasn't established come out and win an international. > > They bought solo queue back, because there is no way to create balanced matches at high MMR by mixing pre-mades and non-premades. > > > 4. Guidwars 2 does have roles just not Dev Defined, there are bunkers, de-capers, and supports idk if we are playing the same game. > > Not really comparable, there are roles with in PvP, but classes can play different roles depending on their build, and then even within that there have been builds that sort of hybridized roles, where as a lot of games have classes with more hard roles they play and enforces those in pick phases or when you queue as a role, there is none of that in GW2, which makes for a bigger gap between pre-made and pug. > > There is a reason that games vastly more competitive, vastly more focused on PvP like MOBAs, shooters, etc still cater to solo/duo players rather than simply teams, because that is how the vast majority of players in these games play either all the time or at least part of the time, the people who want to queue as a 5 man team most of the time are a tiny minority even in games that dish out millions of dollars in prize money to teams. People change classes and spec in sPvP during prep time all the time, i certainly do and if you don't that's on you. And your arguing that games where there focus is competitive pvp allow teams to be in queue in solo because they play it more? Wouldn't that be an greater argument to separate the queues more? Work with me here... from yours and Morwarths perspective being crushed by a premade is so disheartening that people will just up and quit the game mode and never return if this is true and these said games rely on PvP which is the only game mode that they have wouldn't they be even more incentivized to separate the queue's and not less, given if they don't the vast majority of solo queue players would quit? Please maybe i can't see your perspective can you elaborate on your post? The rest of your stuff is subjective and we can debate for days what constitute as class or role is it the devs job or not etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zinkz.7045 Posted December 19, 2017 Share Posted December 19, 2017 > @"Genesis.5169" said: > People change classes and spec in sPvP during prep time all the time, i certainly do and if you don't that's on you. And? (Hint: I never said 'some' people don't, it is however irrelevant to the point being made) >And your arguing that games where there focus is competitive pvp allow teams to be in queue in solo because they play it more? What? > from yours and Morwarths perspective being crushed by a premade is so disheartening that people will just up and quit the game mode > and never return if this is true and these said games rely on PvP which is the only game mode that they have wouldn't they be even more incentivized to separate > > the queue's and not less, given if they don't the vast majority of solo queue players would quit? I refer you to my first post about vastly bigger playerbase, stricter matchmkaing, hard roles, etc and that LoL brought back solo queue after dynamic queue failed miserably at high MMR. > The rest of your stuff is subjective and we can debate for days what constitute as class or role is it the devs job or not etc. It is not subjective at all, in GW2 you can play 5 of one role, even using the same 5 classes and the game will not suggest or force you to do anything about that, most other games to varying degrees will. > Work with me here... There is nothing to work with, I repeat: The idea that a 5 year old MMORPG in decline, a game that isn't specifically focused on PvP, to the point that in terms of balance patches, etc it is laughably run, that is largely aimed at a casual playerbase, and which was losing players even when it had a team queue, is somehow going to rejuvenate PvP by bringing back team queue and removing other options is simply ludicrous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genesis.5169 Posted December 19, 2017 Share Posted December 19, 2017 > @"zinkz.7045" said: > > @"Genesis.5169" said: > > People change classes and spec in sPvP during prep time all the time, i certainly do and if you don't that's on you. > > And? (Hint: I never said 'some' people don't, it is however irrelevant to the point being made) > > >And your arguing that games where there focus is competitive pvp allow teams to be in queue in solo because they play it more? > > What? Yeah i don't what your trying to say here you tell me. > > > from yours and Morwarths perspective being crushed by a premade is so disheartening that people will just up and quit the game mode > > and never return if this is true and these said games rely on PvP which is the only game mode that they have wouldn't they be even more incentivized to separate > > the queue's and not less, given if they don't the vast majority of solo queue players would quit? > > I refer you to my first post about vastly bigger playerbase, stricter matchmkaing, hard roles, etc and that LoL brought back solo queue after dynamic queue failed miserably at high MMR. You know that has nothing to do with the playerbase, the players at large knows nothing about how the matching algo is set nor do they care they just want to play the game, and premades in dota equally crush people like they do here your argument has no merit what so ever if people hated losing to premades so much, ALL MOBAS would die within a year but all of them are going on 5 years strong with mixed queue's. If you cannot see by how your standard none of these game could exist now you just don't want to and can't be changed at this point. > > > The rest of your stuff is subjective and we can debate for days what constitute as class or role is it the devs job or not etc. > > It is not subjective at all, in GW2 you can play 5 of one role, even using the same 5 classes and the game will not suggest or force you to do anything about that, most other games to varying degrees will. A team with well defined roles with a bunker and a support will generally beat one without one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R E F L H E X.8413 Posted December 19, 2017 Share Posted December 19, 2017 > @"Morwath.9817" said: > Ooo, as far as Quaggan knows, even for Unranked ~93% of population is soloQ. > Sooo, Quaggan haz to ask ze question, would you be willing to wait up to 30 minutes to face other preamde? https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/237542#Comment_237542 Happily if it were more like gw1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flog.3485 Posted December 19, 2017 Share Posted December 19, 2017 EZ fix: make unranked 5v5 only and put in guild based rewards for running unranked with a full guild based team or a minimum of 2 members of the same guild playing ranked. As for ranked, well solo only. But at least: you will get the opportunity of getting good in sPvP by playing unranked. And if you don't wanna play solo ranked, you can at least play ATs or even jebro tournament. As for pure solo enjoyment, as in "I don't really care about PvP but I want to progress my reward tracks without the problem of facing teams with serious comps in solo or unranked" hotjoin is your friend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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