Omar Aschi Popp.7496 Posted September 20, 2017 Share Posted September 20, 2017 Writing "Thumbs Down" is the new thumbs down. Also so.eone already mentioned bringing back signed downvote. ThIS. I WANT you to know it was me who downvoted you. Anonymity is for abject cowards. Just like people who whisper trash talk and go offline. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manasa Devi.7958 Posted September 20, 2017 Share Posted September 20, 2017 > @Ashen.2907 said: > > @GreyWolf.8670 said: > > > @Helbjorne.9368 said: > > > > @Reinthir.1349 said: > > > > Orr just use words and state why you disagree. That's my problem with the system as a whole tbh. You don't have to post to say whether you agree or disagree and why. Just get rid of them both at this point since it's creating more hassle than it's worth. > > > > > > Do you require that people provide explanations as to why they like something or agree as well? Maybe we just don't like the cut of your jib. > > > > What an absurd argument. What point is there in demanding why someone agrees with your thoughts? > > Why do they agree? Is it the tone of the post? One point made among many? Because the poster is a friend? Because they like the poster's name? Was it the whole package? Were they trolling by supporting a post that is offensive or that they genuinely feel would be harmful? It's not important to know why someone approves of a post. It would generate pointless filler posts. Disagreement does need to be stated in order to have a discussion. That's what forums are for: a medium for discussion. Would you really rather have 9 "**I am Manasa Devi and I approve of the points raised in this post.**" posts instead of just 9 thumbs up? Disagreement on the other hand needs to be verbalized to have any meaning at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waldo.8075 Posted September 20, 2017 Share Posted September 20, 2017 > @"Omar Aschi Popp.7496" said: > > @Waldo.8075 said: > > > @"Leo G.4501" said: > > > > @Waldo.8075 said: > > > > > @"Leo G.4501" said: > > > > > > @Waldo.8075 said: > > > > > > And so what if my post gets thumbed down? A thumb-down doesn't do much other than being there. It's not constructive and doesn't add anything at all because there could be a million reasons as to why it got thumbed down, but none of it would be mentioned so therefore it means less that nothing. > > > > > > > > > > It would mean i would have had one reply less to write and one less for you to read. Because it's apparently better that you misrepresent the opposing argument and me to write that you are and then you to write that you're not and we go in an infinite circle than it is to just click a button and move on. You're not willing to listen to the opposition nor counter provided arguments nor present new ones so where should the discussion go? Obviously 20+ more pages and a boat load of wasted time... > > > > > > > > Now here's a thing. > > > > And right now I'm going to point at that "you're not willing to listen." > > > > As long as you do not listen to people, people won't listen to you. > > > > Do you see where I'm getting at? > > > > > > > > Now, look at how many people disagree with you, compared to the amount of people who disagree with me. > > > > > > > > And it'd be nice to know if there are people out there who disagree with me other than this single individual. Someone who can give me a valid counter argument. > > > > > > > > > > You won't know how many people disagree with me because that option was removed. You may have some people who would thumb down my semi-ironic post that i admitted to being an emotionally charged appeal (you obviously missed that) but not my actual message unless people deliberately poll for it. > > > > > > What's hilarious is you've taken the moral high horse stance of "who agrees with you vs who agrees with me" which *doesn't even matter* because you don't approve of the popularity contest of the downvote system anyway unless of cousw it feeds your argument i suppose. > > > > > > And i do hope someone besides me gives you a counter argument. Apparently, you'd just ignore mine giving yourself the false assumption that only certain people don't agree with you. > > > > Oh# I would know the amount of people disagreeing if I read the actual posts# and not rely on a feature everyone can abuse without consequences, which I do and I can only count a half because if I read your posts (and you seem the only one to disagree), there's nothing really constructive about them. > > ...lol What? > You mean like... You mean... Like.. . Ok ok ok let me get his straight... > > You. Would KNOW how many people disagreebwih something because YOU read it (and formulated your own opinion)? > > Because that sounds an awful lot like "I know everyone disagrees with this post because I disagree with it" > > W > A > T huehuehue ikr wat indeed exdeelololol Immaturities aside, since you're not really on track of what has been posted, I'll quote you that very post that got me to reply like that. Hold on to your lols and the exdees. > @"Leo G.4501" said: > > @Waldo.8075 said: > > "Oh no! A button that doesn't do much other than showing an icon of a hand pointing its thumb down has been removed while I can also just be civilized and write a productive counter argument that could lead to a discussion, hopefully without throwing insults and immaturity at each other, to express each other's opinion on the subject. I'd rather just click a button and not spend a few minutes writing a valid counter argument and be less productive about it so that I can sleep well at night knowing that I've contributed absolutely nothing but an additional count to the thumbs-down mass." > > > > > > Also what's this about the change being against freedom of speech? I ain't hearing people talking or reading anything about their so-called speech when all we get to see is a number next to an icon going up. > > If someone disagrees, it'd be a lot better if a counter argument was given to back-up that disagreement. > > Don't have time to write the disagreement to one's post? Then your disagreement is probably void to begin with. > > > > An agreement and a disagreement are two completely different things. Comparing them is like comparing a train with my granny's scootmobile. > > And she doesn't even have one. Think about that. > > If you agree with someone, there isn't much to add because you simply have the same opinion and if you had to express that, the forums would be full with the same post over and over. Probably more frequent than the posts about bugged events for legendaries. > > If you disagree with someone, you can add something to that with your view and opinion (as long as you don't fling immaturities about) by expressing your argument with words and not with a hand gesture. Leave that to people who need to use hand gestures because they are unable to speak. > > See, this post would have gotten a thumbs down because its useless and demonstratea the poster didnt read the opposing argument AT ALL. > > That post deserves a level heades and indepth reaponse while demonstrating a lack or respect and patients? Or we could just ignore rhe person and hope he goes away, making countless of useless posts in the meantime? The poster, being Leo G, blatantly claims I did not read any posts at all in a way as if it was a fact and not a mere opinion. Had they said "In my opinion, this --" it wouldn't look like he was speaking for a lot of people. Not my fault for misinterpreting it, if it wasn't their intention to not sound as their original post showed. Still got your lols boy? Good. Cherish them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashen.2907 Posted September 20, 2017 Share Posted September 20, 2017 > @"Manasa Devi.7958" said: > > @Ashen.2907 said: > > > @GreyWolf.8670 said: > > > > @Helbjorne.9368 said: > > > > > @Reinthir.1349 said: > > > > > Orr just use words and state why you disagree. That's my problem with the system as a whole tbh. You don't have to post to say whether you agree or disagree and why. Just get rid of them both at this point since it's creating more hassle than it's worth. > > > > > > > > Do you require that people provide explanations as to why they like something or agree as well? Maybe we just don't like the cut of your jib. > > > > > > What an absurd argument. What point is there in demanding why someone agrees with your thoughts? > > > > Why do they agree? Is it the tone of the post? One point made among many? Because the poster is a friend? Because they like the poster's name? Was it the whole package? Were they trolling by supporting a post that is offensive or that they genuinely feel would be harmful? > > It's not important to know why someone approves of a post. It would generate pointless filler posts. Disagreement does need to be stated in order to have a discussion. That's what forums are for: a medium for discussion. Would you really rather have 9 "**I am Manasa Devi and I approve of the points raised in this post.**" posts instead of just 9 thumbs up? Disagreement on the other hand needs to be verbalized to have any meaning at all. I disagree. Why was thumbs up applied? Was it the tone of the post? Was it one point among many? Was it because the poster is a friend? Was it because the poster's name is funny? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STIHL.2489 Posted September 20, 2017 Share Posted September 20, 2017 > @OriOri.8724 said: > > This is such contrived, hypocritical, and flawed logic. If we have to state why we disagree, then we also have to state why we agree. Totally agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STIHL.2489 Posted September 20, 2017 Share Posted September 20, 2017 > @OriOri.8724 said: > > You cannot require a reason for downvoting and then not require a reason for upvoting. Totally disagree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manasa Devi.7958 Posted September 20, 2017 Share Posted September 20, 2017 None of that is important> @Ashen.2907 said: > > @"Manasa Devi.7958" said: > > > @Ashen.2907 said: > > > > @GreyWolf.8670 said: > > > > > @Helbjorne.9368 said: > > > > > > @Reinthir.1349 said: > > > > > > Orr just use words and state why you disagree. That's my problem with the system as a whole tbh. You don't have to post to say whether you agree or disagree and why. Just get rid of them both at this point since it's creating more hassle than it's worth. > > > > > > > > > > Do you require that people provide explanations as to why they like something or agree as well? Maybe we just don't like the cut of your jib. > > > > > > > > What an absurd argument. What point is there in demanding why someone agrees with your thoughts? > > > > > > Why do they agree? Is it the tone of the post? One point made among many? Because the poster is a friend? Because they like the poster's name? Was it the whole package? Were they trolling by supporting a post that is offensive or that they genuinely feel would be harmful? > > > > It's not important to know why someone approves of a post. It would generate pointless filler posts. Disagreement does need to be stated in order to have a discussion. That's what forums are for: a medium for discussion. Would you really rather have 9 "**I am Manasa Devi and I approve of the points raised in this post.**" posts instead of just 9 thumbs up? Disagreement on the other hand needs to be verbalized to have any meaning at all. > > I disagree. > > Why was thumbs up applied? > > Was it the tone of the post? > Was it one point among many? > Was it because the poster is a friend? > Was it because the poster's name is funny? How does any of that contribute to the discussion? Seriously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashen.2907 Posted September 20, 2017 Share Posted September 20, 2017 > @"Manasa Devi.7958" said: > None of that is important> @Ashen.2907 said: > > > @"Manasa Devi.7958" said: > > > > @Ashen.2907 said: > > > > > @GreyWolf.8670 said: > > > > > > @Helbjorne.9368 said: > > > > > > > @Reinthir.1349 said: > > > > > > > Orr just use words and state why you disagree. That's my problem with the system as a whole tbh. You don't have to post to say whether you agree or disagree and why. Just get rid of them both at this point since it's creating more hassle than it's worth. > > > > > > > > > > > > Do you require that people provide explanations as to why they like something or agree as well? Maybe we just don't like the cut of your jib. > > > > > > > > > > What an absurd argument. What point is there in demanding why someone agrees with your thoughts? > > > > > > > > Why do they agree? Is it the tone of the post? One point made among many? Because the poster is a friend? Because they like the poster's name? Was it the whole package? Were they trolling by supporting a post that is offensive or that they genuinely feel would be harmful? > > > > > > It's not important to know why someone approves of a post. It would generate pointless filler posts. Disagreement does need to be stated in order to have a discussion. That's what forums are for: a medium for discussion. Would you really rather have 9 "**I am Manasa Devi and I approve of the points raised in this post.**" posts instead of just 9 thumbs up? Disagreement on the other hand needs to be verbalized to have any meaning at all. > > > > I disagree. > > > > Why was thumbs up applied? > > > > Was it the tone of the post? > > Was it one point among many? > > Was it because the poster is a friend? > > Was it because the poster's name is funny? > > How does any of that contribute to the discussion? Seriously. Perhaps in the same way that asking the same sort of questions of those who wish to disagree. They are, after all, just paraphrases of the questions posed as needed for disagreement. If someone thumbs up it provides no more insight than would someone thumbs downing. For all any of us know that thumbs up's only contribution to the constructive discussion is that the player insisted that her husband log into the forums to give her the ego boost of more likes than her forum rival. Thumbs up should be removed IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ceridwen.6703 Posted September 20, 2017 Share Posted September 20, 2017 > @Ashantara.8731 said: > > @Ayakaru.6583 said: > > I just comment downvote now, since anet removed the option > > This is **exactly** why the downvote was removed, because most people didn't even bother to explain their counter-opinion (or why they downvoted something that didn't even contain an opinion to begin with). Thank you for confirming that ANet did the right thing by removing this troll function. I completely agree. There's nothing wrong with disagreeing with someone, but it's no good if you can't talk about the why in a constructive manner. The downvote wasn't constructive to any discussion and I was certainly more than a little suspicious of posts being downvoted for no good reason. I know there's talk about the Thumbs Up being no use either - I don't quite see it in the same unconstructive category as the Thumbs Down myself, but I think I do miss our simple +1, and would happily forego both Helpful and the Thumbs Up to see its return. Not going to hammer on about it, mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manasa Devi.7958 Posted September 20, 2017 Share Posted September 20, 2017 > @"Davion Roth.6709" said: > I'll say it again, like I did in another similar thread...people can't vote on things I say in a verbal _discussion_, they can say back to me why they agree or disagree, that's what makes it a discussion. There is no reason for voting in any kind of way, up or down, in a _discussion_ forum. Actually, in situations where the point is to arrive at a consensus or a compromise, it is very important to indicate agreement. Disagreement with a point requires counterpoints, that can in turn be agreed with by the less vocal participants, or rebutted, or expanded upon. The only thing in a discussion that requires no more than a simple "hear hear!" is an agreement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haishao.6851 Posted September 20, 2017 Share Posted September 20, 2017 > @STIHL.2489 said: > Gamers are gamers. It's the truth. > gamers are in fact petty people Source? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arzurag.7506 Posted September 20, 2017 Share Posted September 20, 2017 Keep up-and downvotes out of this forum, In my opinion these kind of systems add nothing helpful to the boards. I you disagree, write why and don´t hide behind downvotes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haishao.6851 Posted September 20, 2017 Share Posted September 20, 2017 > @STIHL.2489 said: > > > > @OriOri.8724 said: > > > > You cannot require a reason for downvoting and then not require a reason for upvoting. > > Totally disagree. How is that post different than a thumb down? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manasa Devi.7958 Posted September 20, 2017 Share Posted September 20, 2017 Thumbs Up are often useful, except when applied pointlessly or frivolously. Thumbs Down are never useful at all. Never. At. All. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manasa Devi.7958 Posted September 20, 2017 Share Posted September 20, 2017 > @Haishao.6851 said: > > @STIHL.2489 said: > > > > > > > @OriOri.8724 said: > > > > > > You cannot require a reason for downvoting and then not require a reason for upvoting. > > > > Totally disagree. > > How is that post different than a thumb down? > I think that was exactly the point being illustrated. Check the post above it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashen.2907 Posted September 20, 2017 Share Posted September 20, 2017 > @"Manasa Devi.7958" said: > Thumbs Up are often useful, except when applied pointlessly or frivolously. Thumbs Down are never useful at all. Never. At. All. Agreement with a suggestion is no more inherently useful than disagreement. I fully agree that frivolous or disingenuous use of either is useless. But, if someone posts an idea, lets say for full open world PvP, non consensual, would it be of no use, perhaps to the company, to see disagreeing voges outnumber agreeing by orders of magnitude? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manasa Devi.7958 Posted September 20, 2017 Share Posted September 20, 2017 > @Ashen.2907 said: > > @"Manasa Devi.7958" said: > > Thumbs Up are often useful, except when applied pointlessly or frivolously. Thumbs Down are never useful at all. Never. At. All. > > Agreement with a suggestion is no more inherently useful than disagreement. > > I fully agree that frivolous or disingenuous use of either is useless. > > But, if someone posts an idea, lets say for full open world PvP, non consensual, would it be of no use, perhaps to the company, to see disagreeing voges outnumber agreeing by orders of magnitude? It wouldn't, because they wouldn't be able to interpret the Thumbs Down. I would assume if the OP of such a post was just interested in opinions on a single idea instead of discussing it, he would set up a poll. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
czerwoni.9563 Posted September 20, 2017 Share Posted September 20, 2017 > @Ayrilana.1396 said: > I _agree_. I need a way to downvote any post that I disagree with. Ya but people disagree with dumb things like I would make a post saying can someone help me with warrior and a troll will downvote cause he doesn't like warrior then ppl will follow suit and I'll get 200 downvotes for asking for help. It's abused too much Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haishao.6851 Posted September 20, 2017 Share Posted September 20, 2017 > @"Manasa Devi.7958" said: > Thumbs Up are often useful, except when applied pointlessly or frivolously. Thumbs Down are never useful at all. Never. At. All. Wrong :-1: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashen.2907 Posted September 20, 2017 Share Posted September 20, 2017 > @"Manasa Devi.7958" said: > > @Ashen.2907 said: > > > @"Manasa Devi.7958" said: > > > Thumbs Up are often useful, except when applied pointlessly or frivolously. Thumbs Down are never useful at all. Never. At. All. > > > > Agreement with a suggestion is no more inherently useful than disagreement. > > > > I fully agree that frivolous or disingenuous use of either is useless. > > > > But, if someone posts an idea, lets say for full open world PvP, non consensual, would it be of no use, perhaps to the company, to see disagreeing voges outnumber agreeing by orders of magnitude? > > It wouldn't, because they wouldn't be able to interpret the Thumbs Down. > > I would assume if the OP of such a post was just interested in opinions on a single idea instead of discussing it, he would set up a poll. I am fairly certain that the people at ANet could interpret thousand disagreements with someone asking for open world PvP vs ten agreements as meaning that the forum community is opposed to the idea without it being too far off target. You know what they say about making assumptions. There have been more pro open world PvP or dueling threads, by far, even when the expressed OP was just for opinions rather than discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArenaNet Staff Gaile Gray.6029 Posted September 20, 2017 ArenaNet Staff Share Posted September 20, 2017 I have explained the decision in depth and with several related posts in the New Forum Feedback thread. There's no value in continued complaint or argument on this subject, as the decision will not be altered. You may use the reaction system or not, as you desire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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