Corrupting boons on auto attack needs to be removed, the necro does not need this OP auto attack.

[Egorum.9506]

Tone down the boon application and we can tone down boon corruption. As it stands too many class fart boons out, without boon strip they're unbeatable. As necro has very poor boon application, they need to have boon corruption.

[Rezzet.3614]

Boon corrupt should not be as spammable as it is, tone down boon corrupt then pit conditions against professions with boons active and see how they fare

[Rezzet.3614]

> @"Egorum.9506" said:

> Tone down the boon application and we can tone down boon corruption. As it stands too many class fart boons out, without boon strip they're unbeatable. As necro has very poor boon application, they need to have boon corruption.

 

The thing is core necro has 3 low cooldown boon corruptions as well as boon strips as well as boon corrupt on auto as well as boon strip on traits

 

Not all boons are game changing for all professions ,not all professions have high uptime for all boons

 

Whereas conditions by default counter most of what power builds do with boons, example: fury is countered by weakness, swiftness is countered by chill and cripple, regen is countered by poison, boon corrupt is flat out unfair, in its current spammable application specially considering conditions burst as hard as crit builds

[Crinn.7864]

> @"Rezzet.3614" said:

> > @"Egorum.9506" said:

> > Tone down the boon application and we can tone down boon corruption. As it stands too many class fart boons out, without boon strip they're unbeatable. As necro has very poor boon application, they need to have boon corruption.

>

> The thing is core necro has 3 low cooldown boon corruptions as well as boon strips as well as boon corrupt on auto as well as boon strip on traits

 

What?

 

Core necro has exactly 3 boon corruption traits, spread across two traitlines. It has exactly two boon corruption utilities, with every mainhand weapon having exactly 1 skill that corrupts boons.

[Felipe.1807]

Damn, i know that the pool is not big enough, but...around 40% of the players actually think that the ability to corrupt boons is okay to be on auto-attacks...anyway, dont think that would enough to put Scourges down a little, in truth, i believe that would make close to diference at all. The problem with Scourge is the AoE's, a single target skill, for more powerfull that it is, is the least of our problems.

[Rezzet.3614]

> @"Crinn.7864" said:

> > @"Rezzet.3614" said:

> > > @"Egorum.9506" said:

> > > Tone down the boon application and we can tone down boon corruption. As it stands too many class fart boons out, without boon strip they're unbeatable. As necro has very poor boon application, they need to have boon corruption.

> >

> > The thing is core necro has 3 low cooldown boon corruptions as well as boon strips as well as boon corrupt on auto as well as boon strip on traits

>

> What?

>

> Core necro has exactly 3 boon corruption traits, spread across two traitlines. It has exactly two boon corruption utilities, with every mainhand weapon having exactly 1 skill that corrupts boons.

 

Now pair all that mess with the boonstrip skills and traits , boon corruption has to be replaced with boon strip at the very least.

[Halikus.1406]

Er... No, it has not to be replaced at all. That is a necro mechanic, just like boons strip is a spellbreaker mechanic. Like @"Crinn.7864" said before, what needs to happen is anet tone down and fix **SCOURGE** elite spec and not core necro. Why do you guys insist in changing something that's working as intended? SCOURGE is the one that need nerfs and fixes.

[Aeolus.3615]

> @"Egorum.9506" said:

> Tone down the boon application and we can tone down boon corruption. As it stands too many class fart boons out, without boon strip they're unbeatable. As necro has very poor boon application, they need to have boon corruption.

 

Anet migth add way more boon spam and stacking within next expantion since power creep and spam will be raised again.

And as i told in another thread, being , shouts, chant, or whatever.. all are the same... boon stacking, this is the reason theres so many boon removals, since everything is being spammed.

 

Still i would love boon from autos being removed, buuuuut, Anet would have make utitlities forbident to stack mos tof the boons, lets say players efected by my shouts could not receive stacking efects, besides regen and a few other boons only could be that easilly spammed and stacked, also as some conditions would be changed to hexes and some others limited to classes only.

 

[KrHome.1920]

> @"Hitman.5829" said:

> The scourge is OP as it is corrupting and removing tons of boons. The scepter auto attack needs a rework.

Typical Hitman post: "If I can't faceroll it with my warrior, it's OP, because I'm pro."

 

You don't even understand, that scourge pressure is not a result of the scepter auto attack - or why would you want to remove the corruption then? Scepter is the weakest weapon necro has. Condi scourges are equally viable when they run power weapons like axe.

 

Running condi scourge is the only thing a necro player can do to have a chance (it's not even a counter) to kill a warrior. Everything else (core, reaper, power) is hardcountered by your broken shitclass.

[ReaverKane.7598]

I love seeing people that don't know how the class is played suggest changes to it.

The best way to balance classes isn't to nerf them is to add counterplay.

If someone is spamming 1 on scepter, you already won.

But if someone is playing well and has a shade on point, then you lost.

The thing that needs to be done is add counters to that shade on point.

I'd suggest either allowing shades to be ccd to disable (like those Chak Drones that buff other chak), or give them a tether to necro, if necro gets out of range to keep the tether, the shade dissolves. (i think the first is the best counterplay).

**Other than shades zoning you**, if a scourge kills you, it's your fault, they have limited range compared to a lot of classes, they're weaker vs power builds but strong vs condi (cause you'll get them all back), and don't have much in way of stability, and blocks so are overall very susceptible to cc.

So if you focus him in range, he's dead. If you don't use condis on him, he's got less ammo to throw at you. If you don't have boons on you, you're not going to have to worry about him that much, because now all he has left is scepter skills, and not much else. And compared to a mirage, that's nothing.

So yeah, all that Anet needs to do is give a counter for shades, because it's that zoning power that makes scourge strong. That and everyone still runs around with all the boons in the world and decides it's a good idea to go against a scourge with all that.

[Ario.8964]

Boon corruption needs to be available to the necro. But it needs to be on skills that don't also apply conditions, are blockable, have cast times, and can't be spammed. Auto attack violates every single one of those requirements for a balanced approach to boon corruption. Necro's scepter auto has been incredibly overtuned ever since the original change but nobody ever really noticed it until necro was able to survive longer with scourge and utilize that auto more.

[ReaverKane.7598]

> @"Ario.8964" said:

> Boon corruption needs to be available to the necro. But it needs to be on skills that don't also apply conditions, are blockable, have cast times, and can't be spammed. Auto attack violates every single one of those requirements for a balanced approach to boon corruption. Necro's scepter auto has been incredibly overtuned ever since the original change but nobody ever really noticed it until necro was able to survive longer with scourge and utilize that auto more.

 

Except no one uses auto on scepter because no life force generation, you do it maybe once in a rotation. And if one boon corrupted is going to get you killed, man, you have a problem. Also autos can be blocked, has a cast time, and can't be spammed by the simple fact that you need to cast 2 other skills to get to that one...

[Ario.8964]

> @"ReaverKane.7598" said:

> > @"Ario.8964" said:

> > Boon corruption needs to be available to the necro. But it needs to be on skills that don't also apply conditions, are blockable, have cast times, and can't be spammed. Auto attack violates every single one of those requirements for a balanced approach to boon corruption. Necro's scepter auto has been incredibly overtuned ever since the original change but nobody ever really noticed it until necro was able to survive longer with scourge and utilize that auto more.

>

> Except no one uses auto on scepter because no life force generation, you do it maybe once in a rotation. And if one boon corrupted is going to get you killed, man, you have a problem. Also autos can be blocked, has a cast time, and can't be spammed by the simple fact that you need to cast 2 other skills to get to that one...

 

Scourge has no problem generating life force, you have plenty of opportunity to utilize scepter auto and if you aren't because you're busy spamming shade skills off cd then that's why you have issues with life force. The matches I played on scourge I never had an issue with life force as long as I planned my use of shade skills around what my enemy was doing rather than fire and forget. I had plenty of time to use my auto and keep up insane pressure while also removing any possibility of the enemy using boons without causing themselves to take more damage or suffer more cover condi. The fact of the matter is an auto attack doesn't need that much loaded onto it, it's current implementation was a lazy way to give necro more room to shut down boon builds. I'm all for boon corruption being a big thing on scourge but not in the form of an auto attack. It needs to be placed in other skills that require precision use and timing to land in order to punish the spammers on this class and reward people who know what they're doing.

[Crinn.7864]

> @"Ario.8964" said:

> > @"ReaverKane.7598" said:

> > > @"Ario.8964" said:

> > > Boon corruption needs to be available to the necro. But it needs to be on skills that don't also apply conditions, are blockable, have cast times, and can't be spammed. Auto attack violates every single one of those requirements for a balanced approach to boon corruption. Necro's scepter auto has been incredibly overtuned ever since the original change but nobody ever really noticed it until necro was able to survive longer with scourge and utilize that auto more.

> >

> > Except no one uses auto on scepter because no life force generation, you do it maybe once in a rotation. And if one boon corrupted is going to get you killed, man, you have a problem. Also autos can be blocked, has a cast time, and can't be spammed by the simple fact that you need to cast 2 other skills to get to that one...

>

> Scourge has no problem generating life force, you have plenty of opportunity to utilize scepter auto and if you aren't because you're busy spamming shade skills off cd then that's why you have issues with life force. The matches I played on scourge I never had an issue with life force as long as I planned my use of shade skills around what my enemy was doing rather than fire and forget. I had plenty of time to use my auto and keep up insane pressure while also removing any possibility of the enemy using boons without causing themselves to take more damage or suffer more cover condi. The fact of the matter is an auto attack doesn't need that much loaded onto it, it's current implementation was a lazy way to give necro more room to shut down boon builds. I'm all for boon corruption being a big thing on scourge but not in the form of an auto attack. It needs to be placed in other skills that require precision use and timing to land in order to punish the spammers on this class and reward people who know what they're doing.

 

If you are spamming your auto chain as scourge, it means that you are making inadequate use of your other weapon skills.

[ReaverKane.7598]

> @"Ario.8964" said:

> > @"ReaverKane.7598" said:

> > > @"Ario.8964" said:

> > > Boon corruption needs to be available to the necro. But it needs to be on skills that don't also apply conditions, are blockable, have cast times, and can't be spammed. Auto attack violates every single one of those requirements for a balanced approach to boon corruption. Necro's scepter auto has been incredibly overtuned ever since the original change but nobody ever really noticed it until necro was able to survive longer with scourge and utilize that auto more.

> >

> > Except no one uses auto on scepter because no life force generation, you do it maybe once in a rotation. And if one boon corrupted is going to get you killed, man, you have a problem. Also autos can be blocked, has a cast time, and can't be spammed by the simple fact that you need to cast 2 other skills to get to that one...

>

> Scourge has no problem generating life force, you have plenty of opportunity to utilize scepter auto and if you aren't because you're busy spamming shade skills off cd then that's why you have issues with life force. The matches I played on scourge I never had an issue with life force as long as I planned my use of shade skills around what my enemy was doing rather than fire and forget. I had plenty of time to use my auto and keep up insane pressure while also removing any possibility of the enemy using boons without causing themselves to take more damage or suffer more cover condi. The fact of the matter is an auto attack doesn't need that much loaded onto it, it's current implementation was a lazy way to give necro more room to shut down boon builds. I'm all for boon corruption being a big thing on scourge but not in the form of an auto attack. It needs to be placed in other skills that require precision use and timing to land in order to punish the spammers on this class and reward people who know what they're doing.

 

And that's why you should be making suggestions about scourge... You don't know how to play it.

[Rezzet.3614]

The problem in this thread is that scourge overshadows core necro so much that everyone forgot even core necro were flat out mandatory in pvp teams.

[Rezzet.3614]

Buff necro as needes, get rid of corruption balance out condi damage vs debuff uptime application, also get rid of some unblockables

 

Theres too much going on at once with single button presses

[Rezzet.3614]

> @"Halikus.1406" said:

> Er... No, it has not to be replaced at all. That is a necro mechanic, just like boons strip is a spellbreaker mechanic. Like @"Crinn.7864" said before, what needs to happen is anet tone down and fix **SCOURGE** elite spec and not core necro. Why do you guys insist in changing something that's working as intended? SCOURGE is the one that need nerfs and fixes.

 

If Anet went LOL and released a one punch man profession that indeed one shot people with auto attacks, it would be overpowered even if that is how it was intended to be and initially released as,

 

Corruption by design is imbalanced considering that boon strip exists and the fact that conditions by default counter non condi via debuffs.

 

Tanky enemy? Slap poison and vulnerability with some DoTs on it

 

Glass cannon? Slap some weakness and blind and confusion

 

Enemy wont stay still long enough to take considerable damage? Cripple chill torment immobilize

[Egorum.9506]

Most classes have built in traits for reducing movement disabling conditions, how does a necro catch those? Movement skills? Because scourge has one, and with the cast/after cast it's only going to gain you 300 units compared to running, 200 if you're running with swiftness.

 

Necro scepter AA 3 and staff 3 are the only poison applications it has other than corrupting regen. Maybe stop trying to stack regen if you're fighting a class that corrupts it, that's called counterplay. If it couldn't be corrupted, bunkers would never die.

 

Scourge has wells, marks, and serpent siphon for unblockable attacks. If those are fucking you up, reconsider how you are playing against them?

 

Meta scourge has 0 access to blind, or block (resistance runes I guess?), or invuln. Try and CC them, they run 1 stab every 25s.

 

Scepter AA has 1 boon corrupt every 2s, on one of the lowest damaging AAs in the game. Meanwhile they eat 2-3k AAs from power classes.

[Crinn.7864]

> @"Rezzet.3614" said:

> > @"Halikus.1406" said:

> > Er... No, it has not to be replaced at all. That is a necro mechanic, just like boons strip is a spellbreaker mechanic. Like @"Crinn.7864" said before, what needs to happen is anet tone down and fix **SCOURGE** elite spec and not core necro. Why do you guys insist in changing something that's working as intended? SCOURGE is the one that need nerfs and fixes.

>

> If Anet went LOL and released a one punch man profession that indeed one shot people with auto attacks, it would be overpowered even if that is how it was intended to be and initially released as,

>

> Corruption by design is imbalanced considering that boon strip exists and the fact that conditions by default counter non condi via debuffs.

>

> Tanky enemy? Slap poison and vulnerability with some DoTs on it

>

> Glass cannon? Slap some weakness and blind and confusion

>

> Enemy wont stay still long enough to take considerable damage? Cripple chill torment immobilize

 

Debuff conditions are not unique to "condi builds." Most power builds actually apply some amount of debuff condis themselves.

example:

power d/p thief: poison, weakness, immobilize, blind

power Herald: weakness, chill, vulnerability, blind

power Reaper: chill, poison, vulnerability, blind, cripple

power warrior: vulnerability, cripple

power meditrapper DH: burning, cripple, slow, blind

power staff/LB druid: immobilize, slow, blind, bleeding, vulnerability

 

[Rezzet.3614]

> @"Crinn.7864" said:

> > @"Rezzet.3614" said:

> > > @"Halikus.1406" said:

> > > Er... No, it has not to be replaced at all. That is a necro mechanic, just like boons strip is a spellbreaker mechanic. Like @"Crinn.7864" said before, what needs to happen is anet tone down and fix **SCOURGE** elite spec and not core necro. Why do you guys insist in changing something that's working as intended? SCOURGE is the one that need nerfs and fixes.

> >

> > If Anet went LOL and released a one punch man profession that indeed one shot people with auto attacks, it would be overpowered even if that is how it was intended to be and initially released as,

> >

> > Corruption by design is imbalanced considering that boon strip exists and the fact that conditions by default counter non condi via debuffs.

> >

> > Tanky enemy? Slap poison and vulnerability with some DoTs on it

> >

> > Glass cannon? Slap some weakness and blind and confusion

> >

> > Enemy wont stay still long enough to take considerable damage? Cripple chill torment immobilize

>

> Debuff conditions are not unique to "condi builds." Most power builds actually apply some amount of debuff condis themselves.

> example:

> power d/p thief: poison, weakness, immobilize, blind

> power Herald: weakness, chill, vulnerability, blind

> power Reaper: chill, poison, vulnerability, blind, cripple

> power warrior: vulnerability, cripple

> power meditrapper DH: burning, cripple, slow, blind

> power staff/LB druid: immobilize, slow, blind, bleeding, vulnerability

>

 

The diference is power builds have to time their condies to open up oportunities to damage the target whereas a condi build will apply nonstop

If power melee player misses their immob or chill or cripple their goes most of their damage and that is assuming they arent affected by weakness already

 

ps: weakness does not affect condi so even if power builds have access to weakness its only good against other power builds

 

and still this only highlights that boon corruption shouldnt even exist

[Master Ketsu.4569]

Corrupt on auto is annoying and could use a nerf, but it's nowhere near the strongest thing scourge has going for it and certainly not what makes it broken.

 

Scourge is OP for two main reasons:

-The F1-F5 abilities are overloaded and can kill entire teams by themselves. Other classes either have lots of okay F1 abilities ( Guardian, Engie, Mesmer ) or one really good F1 ability ( Thief, Warrior ). But scourge has a fully destructive kit of really good abilities.

 

-The condi pressure is not only insane, but it's instant cast with almost zero tells. This allows scourges to just mash buttons towards peoples general direction with condi bomb after condi bomb to the point where they are 99% guaranteed to land no matter how well their target is playing. Some condi bombs can even be used while the scourge is CCed. I've seen scourges poop out instant cast 8+ condition 5+ stacks condi bombs **while they were knocked down**. This constant spam also renders condi removal ineffective.

 

Both these problems combined means scourge players really don't need to worry too much about using their abilities correctly, as the build is forgiving to the point where it even rewards poor choices in certain circumstances.

 

 

[Alehin.3746]

I love hitman's complaints becaus

[Threather.9354]

Why scourge needs changes:

1) It outputs too many conditions for any class to be able to cleanse it even with full condition cleanse.

2) f1-f5 skills are instant AoE and ALSO happen around scourge. Means you cant go melee range against scourge because resistance will just removed. Scourge skills are almost impossible to miss meaning even monkey can play it and destroy all other classes.

3) It hardcounters classes like Elementalist, Revenant, holosmith due to their melee damage nature (or no cleanse build). Making these classes jokepicks.

 

There are 3 obvious possible fixes for this

1) Make shade skills not happen around scourge. Double the target cap on Big Shade and increase mini shade to 5. Meaning of this change is to force scourges to aim and makes them not able to deal free damage while stunned/dazed etc by spamming f1-f5 skills.

2) add ICD cooldown to Dhuumfire (1 second) and f2 corruption traits (10 seconds). These don't affect normal necro however reaper could receive a buff such as extra 2 ticks on 4 skill in reaper shroud.

3) Reduce range of placing shade to 600, keep activation range at 900. This is the most interesting change because it keeps scourge support/territorial potential while making range pressure harder and eliminates scourges "autowin on both long and short range".

[Nightmare.1234]

they need to remove boon corrupt and condition to boons conversions from the game completely. they should work like the reaper shout

 

"Nothing can save you"

Damage foes around you, converting their boons into vulnerability.

 

all conversions should turn things into just 1 condition or boon type to cut down on condition/boon bloat