Do You Raid?

[Orpheal.8263]

Nope, and never will, unless this game mode doesn't get fundamentally redesigned and reworked to the point, that you can actually really say, that Raids are Raids in GW2 and not just a poorly designed Dungeons 2.0 with higher difficulty and just 10 people instead of 5 with unneccessary arteficial difficulty added on top of it that turns this game mode into a permanent DPS race only, if you can't kill everythign quick enough, that the battles turn out in the end into slaughterfests as enemies quickly can one hit kill you then...

Stuff like this promotes no player skill, it promotes only toxity and player elitism scum to arise.

Additionally to this should it never be required to have to play Raids, just to be able to experience the complete PvE story... this bullshit has been added to the game mode only, just to give the largest player crowd of this game mode, which essentially finances the whole game a reason to even try Raids, to lure the big mass practically somehow into raids, because otherwise this garbage would have immetiately failed the moment it has been added, because without the story tidbits in there, nobody except the tiny hardcore elitist minority that wanted raids so much ,would play raids in this game...

 

GW2 has never been designed from begin on to be that stereotypical Raid mmorpg and the whole implementation of it has from begin on felt like a massive betrayal to the original design of GW2, just to pleasure some WoW hardcore elitists that screamed for raids in the hope, that the game might eventually lure these type of players over to GW2 and permanently away from onme of GW2s biggest competitors on the MMO market that is WoW.

___

 

The only way how I will ever even think potentially about starting to Raid would be, if following points would be done first:

 

1) Remove the pve story related stuff and replace it with in itself closed own raid related stories that aren't part of the main story of the game, so that there is no need essentially anymore to have to play the raids to be fully able to comprehend everythign main story related, only because Anet had chosen to cutt out some main story content they count put into the living story and design and implement it instead as raid wing story /facepalm

 

2) Rework the whole diffilculty and reward system around the raid contenmt, starting with Legendary Armors beign not anymore raid exclusive..Legendary Armors should be same as much generally normal PvE content as like legendary weapons and they should require same as much as like legendary weapons to go onto a journey over the course of the game, which requires a normal mixture out of pve (fractals/dungeons), WvW and PvP elements to obtain them.

 

3) The change of the difficulty system includes simpyl said the implementation of different Raid Modes. Raids should get splitted up into 3 Game Modes:

 

* Explorer Mode = is like Easy Mode, significantly reduced rewards, no play limit for rewards, enemies aren't so hard here, essentially there to get to learn the mechanis for the raids first, so that even the most inexperienced Raid Players can set this way at their pace a foot into this game moder, until they feel experienced enough to go for the more difficutier two modes

 

* Hero Mode = is like Normal Mode, which is basicaly like Raids are now, minus overpowered one hit kill mechanics and without time/DPS race, rewards are better, but the amount of times you can do it for rewards is limited

 

* Vanquisher Mode is like Hard Mode, here you have the one hit kill mechanics and where getting wiped means, that you have to start all over and such hardcore stuff that elitists want for the egos to have, which can then have better rewards than what raids offer currently or a not so strong reward limit.

 

First when Anet begins finally to make Raids more accessible to everyone and adapts this game mode around the original game design of GW2 (and not the other way around, that the game mode feels like unwantely beingpressed into the game, just to make an unwanted minority happy), only then might I become perhaps interested to do Raids. Otherwise never in my life will I dare to touch this garbage!!

 

[fixit.7189]

I raid heavily in that other 'mmo' and I come to GW2 to escape it so no, I do not raid here and never will.

 

edit. what I actually do play gw2 is open world content which, imo, GW2 has the best out there.

[Discoteka.2758]

I raided for a few months with a raiding guild. The attitudes that raiding brings out is a huge turn off for me. I also got tired of doing the same thing every week. It took up a large chunk of my very little available play time. I also don't like the predictability of the mechanics...they should be randomized a bit more imo...but that won't get me back into it.

 

I killed everything (with the exception of w5 as it wasn't released yet) and it just got very stale and the toxicity is crap.

 

ETA I don't like the way the builds are used and demanded now. I like more flexibility and don't like to memorize kitten rotations...that's not playing to me. I also hate that Condition is so expensive to gear and is required for a good majority of these button memorizing builds.

[DarkForcE.9210]

Not much PUBG raid training out there (some were give up on 1/4 progress), plus... taking too much time of my precious after work available hours

 

Killed VG only once (for mastery point leveling) and then...NOPE for the rest of my GW2 careers (unless there's a patience class for beginners out there)

[Tyson.5160]

> @"Zoltreez.6435" said:

> > @"Super Hayes.6890" said:

> > I accept that I don't have the time or skill. What burns me is that there isn't an option to play the raids on an easy setting with zero rewards so I can at least experience the story. I'm stuck reading a wiki for that :(

>

> yep i never in my life gonna ever see DHUUM in this game... Locking a Core Lore figure in the GW world away into Raids.... THX ANET !!!!! not....

 

Did you fight Dhuum in gw1? I would have considered him a raid like boss back in the Underworld. I recall having to gather several different groups in an attempt to fight Dhuum and eventually I got a kill. Not sure how it’s any different now.

[Lonami.2987]

I do, but only sometimes. Got bored of it. Too much of a hassle, and not rewarding enough. I already got one armor set, and I don't like the other two, so I won't bother. My LIs are sleeping in the bank. I don't know if I'll get the new legendary ring either.

 

Also, most of my friends are not good enough for raids, and since there's no "easy mode" for proper training, I can't play with them.

 

[if you want another poll, check this one, about raid easy/normal/hard modes.](https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/18677/serious-do-raids-really-need-easy-normal-hard-difficulty-mode-distinction).

 

> @"IndigoSundown.5419" said:

> That said, how would developers feel if their game's hardest content was:

>

> + soloed regularly?

> + trivialized to the point where many paths could be done in a few minutes, all the time?

> + players used maybe 15% of what their characters could do and ignored everything else?

> + beset with constant comments, for years, about this hardest content being "face-roll easy?"

 

Funny, because that's happening to raids too, and will keep happening until they get a real hard mode.

 

> @"Essence Snow.3194" said:

> > @"ListenToMe.5130" said:

> > > @"Mea.5491" said:

> > > I don't see the point of raids considering the fact that Legendary gear offers the same stats as Ascended and I can craft the latter for dirt cheap. I also don't need the side effects of raids in my life (aka rude players).

> >

> > The point of raids is to experience challenging content. Rewards are mostly secondary.

>

> Gonna have to disagree here. Take away the unique rewards and raids would most likely completely die. This has been shown through the lack of players self imposing difficulty upon themselves. Since it doesn't offer any extra incentive than regular difficulty, it is very, very rarely done. Those that do usually record and post it for the fanfare.

 

See Twilight Arbor Aetherpath. Best dungeon hands down, no one did it because the reward/effort ratio was awful.

 

> @"Astralporing.1957" said:

> > @"Lunateric.3708" said:

> > > @"STIHL.2489" said:

> > > > @"Lunateric.3708" said:

> > > > > @"Svarty.8019" said:

> > > > > We can only hope this poll informs some design decisions.

> > > >

> > > > You do realize the developers for this game know exactly how many people raid, what bosses are killed and how many times and basically every bit of info you could get your hands on?

> > > >

> > > > And they still make raids, can you read between lines?

> > >

> > > I am sure they have the numbers.. but what they don't have is the "why".

> > >

> > > "Why do those people raid and these people don't?"

> > >

> > > And any developer that is not asking that question is not invested into their work.

> >

> > So are you telling me you believe the devs aren't invested in their work or are you telling me you know the reasons behind all this better than they do?

> No. He's telling you that numbers from metrics are not enough, and threads like this one where people explain the "why" are of at least an equal worth to the devs. Because without player feedback it's easy to misinterpret the metrics.

>

> Just remember, that the devs once decided to remove one of the dungeon paths, because their metrics were showing that it was the least run path of all dungeons (meaning, almost noone was running it). Then remember _why_ almost noone was running it (which was the info _not_ present in Anet's metrics).

>

> That was a really good example on how reading the metrics alone can go really, really wrong.

 

Exactly. They stopped doing dungeons because, in their words, Twilight Arbor Aetherpath was too hard and people didn't play it.

 

When in fact, the reason no one was playing it was it had awful rewards, back when CoF1 farming and world boss trains were a thing.

 

Metrics are garbage without proper context.

[KronosBaelfire.6289]

I don't for many reasons that have already been stated in the forum (i.e. elitist attitudes, far too selective, etc.) But there's really nothing that raiding can give me that I need for the game to be fun. The only thing is the extended storyline that comes with raiding that I would like to enjoy but it's not worth it for enduring negative players and being judged. I enjoy my leisure solo playing and not having to change my characters or play style to fit into certain groups.

[Alehin.3746]

The reason the PvE section is not as "popular" as the PvP one is because people are actually playing the game instead of complaining on the forum. Keep crying tho, it is kinda entertaining!

[InsaneQR.7412]

Not tried yet. Thought about it though. Need better gear and a useful meta build i actually wanna play.

[Henry.5713]

Sometimes wonder if half of the people talking about toxic raiders even bothered to try raids properly in the first place or if they are simply repeating that stereotype because of something they heard second hand? Also makes me wonder why most people in the raiding guilds I know aren't even close to being that way.

Guess I am just lucky.

 

On the actual numbers: Why would anyone consider these low numbers in any way representable for the overall population? Not to mention that raids should indeed be considered a huge success if 15% of the overall population actually raided regularly.

[Warcry.1596]

I raid sometimes, but T4 Fractals are exponentially more challenging and they way they are challenging is better than raiding. If a time limit is the hardest thing about an encounter... The encounter needs to be reworked.

[STIHL.2489]

> @"Henry.5713" said:

> Sometimes wonder if half of the people talking about toxic raiders even bothered to try raids properly in the first place or if they are simply repeating that stereotype because of something they heard second hand? Also makes me wonder why most people in the raiding guilds I know aren't even close to being that way.

> Guess I am just lucky.

>

> On the actual numbers: Why would anyone consider these low numbers in any way representable for the overall population? Not to mention that raids should indeed be considered a huge success if 15% of the overall population actually raided regularly.

 

I would be amazed if it was 15% to be honest. Anet said that 20% "tried" raids. I would imagine far less continued on with them.

[Burnfall.9573]

'Do You Raid?'

 

Where important matters are continuously being: avoided and unaddressed....

 

Not in this game.

[Vulf.3098]

> @"STIHL.2489" said:

> > @"Henry.5713" said:

> > Sometimes wonder if half of the people talking about toxic raiders even bothered to try raids properly in the first place or if they are simply repeating that stereotype because of something they heard second hand? Also makes me wonder why most people in the raiding guilds I know aren't even close to being that way.

> > Guess I am just lucky.

> >

> > On the actual numbers: Why would anyone consider these low numbers in any way representable for the overall population? Not to mention that raids should indeed be considered a huge success if 15% of the overall population actually raided regularly.

>

> I would be amazed if it was 15% to be honest. Anet said that 20% "tried" raids. I would imagine far less continued on with them.

 

Even if it was as low as 5% of the population that is still a very acceptable number for content that is supposed to be niche. It would be problem if raiding was the main focal point in the game which is not and should never be.

 

[STIHL.2489]

> @"Vulf.3098" said:

> > @"STIHL.2489" said:

> > > @"Henry.5713" said:

> > > Sometimes wonder if half of the people talking about toxic raiders even bothered to try raids properly in the first place or if they are simply repeating that stereotype because of something they heard second hand? Also makes me wonder why most people in the raiding guilds I know aren't even close to being that way.

> > > Guess I am just lucky.

> > >

> > > On the actual numbers: Why would anyone consider these low numbers in any way representable for the overall population? Not to mention that raids should indeed be considered a huge success if 15% of the overall population actually raided regularly.

> >

> > I would be amazed if it was 15% to be honest. Anet said that 20% "tried" raids. I would imagine far less continued on with them.

>

> Even if it was as low as 5% of the population that is still a very acceptable number for content that is supposed to be niche. It would be problem if raiding was the main focal point in the game which is not and should never be.

>

 

The problem is,if they set it up so that Raids are "End game" then everyone will want to do them. Now in games that have raids from the start, it's not such a big matter, as everyone walking in knows they need to either get gud, or they wont be end -game.

 

Some games have varying raids, like easy Raids, Hard Raids, and often the solution to most of these games is power creep. Power Creep allows more casual players to level beyond a raid, and then do it, maybe for the story, or maybe because of a look or even in some cases the raid gear is still better then the higher level loot-gen gear, so it's worth it to hem to still do the Raid over level. So there is still a motive.. and all the "hard core" players have moved on to the next harder raid.

 

MMO's built that way.. work.. because that kind of system works with that kind of game content.

 

In a game like GW2, it does not work as well, because there is no leveling power creep, thus the raids become stagnant, those that do them will memorize them to the point that they are trivial and boring, and this demand harder and harder content.

 

Where in games like WoW that was easily provided by a level up, a new raid that was harder then the last one, and the gear that will make it easy is locked behind the raid itself., by the time people master that content, they put out a new expansion, and keep the process going. Perfect for people that enjoy raids and the challenge associated with them.

 

GW2 has trapped themselves by saying they would have no Level-Up power creep. So the raids we have today will remain max level.. and for raiders they will spiral down to bland and boring. and for those that can't do them they will remain forever out of their reach.

 

GW2 was in every way, the wrong game set up to add raids.

 

Games like WoW were perfect in their game set up and system for Raids.

 

You can see it in this topic alone, people get their armor, their gear, and.. then.. much like Dungeons after you got the gear,, Raids lose their shine. If the rewards in raids remain Good, people will farm them like they did CoF, and much like CoF farm, if you were not experienced and and didn't have the right build.. you would pretty much never going to get into a group.

 

It's not "Raids" that are the problem. Raids are amazing in some games, they are the games life blood,.. but GW2 is just the wrong game system for them.

[Vulf.3098]

> @"STIHL.2489" said:

> > @"Vulf.3098" said:

> > > @"STIHL.2489" said:

> > > > @"Henry.5713" said:

> > > > Sometimes wonder if half of the people talking about toxic raiders even bothered to try raids properly in the first place or if they are simply repeating that stereotype because of something they heard second hand? Also makes me wonder why most people in the raiding guilds I know aren't even close to being that way.

> > > > Guess I am just lucky.

> > > >

> > > > On the actual numbers: Why would anyone consider these low numbers in any way representable for the overall population? Not to mention that raids should indeed be considered a huge success if 15% of the overall population actually raided regularly.

> > >

> > > I would be amazed if it was 15% to be honest. Anet said that 20% "tried" raids. I would imagine far less continued on with them.

> >

> > Even if it was as low as 5% of the population that is still a very acceptable number for content that is supposed to be niche. It would be problem if raiding was the main focal point in the game which is not and should never be.

> >

>

> The problem is,if they set it up so that Raids are "End game" then everyone will want to do them. Now in games that have raids from the start, it's not such a big matter, as everyone walking in knows they need to either get gud, or they wont be end -game.

>

> Some games have varying raids, like easy Raids, Hard Raids, and often the solution to most of these games is power creep. Power Creep allows more casual players to level beyond a raid, and then do it, maybe for the story, or maybe because of a look or even in some cases the raid gear is still better then the higher level loot-gen gear, so it's worth it to hem to still do the Raid over level. So there is still a motive.. and all the "hard core" players have moved on to the next harder raid.

>

> MMO's built that way.. work.. because that kind of system works with that kind of game content.

>

> In a game like GW2, it does not work as well, because there is no leveling power creep, thus the raids become stagnant, those that do them will memorize them to the point that they are trivial and boring, and this demand harder and harder content.

>

> Where in games like WoW that was easily provided by a level up, a new raid that was harder then the last one, and the gear that will make it easy is locked behind the raid itself., by the time people master that content, they put out a new expansion, and keep the process going. Perfect for people that enjoy raids and the challenge associated with them.

>

> GW2 has trapped themselves by saying they would have no Level-Up power creep. So the raids we have today will remain max level.. and for raiders they will spiral down to bland and boring. and for those that can't do them they will remain forever out of their reach.

>

> GW2 was in every way, the wrong game set up to add raids.

>

> Games like WoW were perfect in their game set up and system for Raids.

>

> You can see it in this topic alone, people get their armor, their gear, and.. then.. much like Dungeons after you got the gear,, Raids lose their shine. If the rewards in raids remain Good, people will farm them like they did CoF, and much like CoF farm, if you were not experienced and and didn't have the right build.. you would pretty much never going to get into a group.

>

> It's not "Raids" that are the problem. Raids are amazing in some games, they are the games life blood,.. but GW2 is just the wrong game system for them.

 

There is no true end game in Gw2 which makes the rest of your post completely irrelevant.

[STIHL.2489]

> @"Vulf.3098" said:

> > @"STIHL.2489" said:

> > > @"Vulf.3098" said:

> > > > @"STIHL.2489" said:

> > > > > @"Henry.5713" said:

> > > > > Sometimes wonder if half of the people talking about toxic raiders even bothered to try raids properly in the first place or if they are simply repeating that stereotype because of something they heard second hand? Also makes me wonder why most people in the raiding guilds I know aren't even close to being that way.

> > > > > Guess I am just lucky.

> > > > >

> > > > > On the actual numbers: Why would anyone consider these low numbers in any way representable for the overall population? Not to mention that raids should indeed be considered a huge success if 15% of the overall population actually raided regularly.

> > > >

> > > > I would be amazed if it was 15% to be honest. Anet said that 20% "tried" raids. I would imagine far less continued on with them.

> > >

> > > Even if it was as low as 5% of the population that is still a very acceptable number for content that is supposed to be niche. It would be problem if raiding was the main focal point in the game which is not and should never be.

> > >

> >

> > The problem is,if they set it up so that Raids are "End game" then everyone will want to do them. Now in games that have raids from the start, it's not such a big matter, as everyone walking in knows they need to either get gud, or they wont be end -game.

> >

> > Some games have varying raids, like easy Raids, Hard Raids, and often the solution to most of these games is power creep. Power Creep allows more casual players to level beyond a raid, and then do it, maybe for the story, or maybe because of a look or even in some cases the raid gear is still better then the higher level loot-gen gear, so it's worth it to hem to still do the Raid over level. So there is still a motive.. and all the "hard core" players have moved on to the next harder raid.

> >

> > MMO's built that way.. work.. because that kind of system works with that kind of game content.

> >

> > In a game like GW2, it does not work as well, because there is no leveling power creep, thus the raids become stagnant, those that do them will memorize them to the point that they are trivial and boring, and this demand harder and harder content.

> >

> > Where in games like WoW that was easily provided by a level up, a new raid that was harder then the last one, and the gear that will make it easy is locked behind the raid itself., by the time people master that content, they put out a new expansion, and keep the process going. Perfect for people that enjoy raids and the challenge associated with them.

> >

> > GW2 has trapped themselves by saying they would have no Level-Up power creep. So the raids we have today will remain max level.. and for raiders they will spiral down to bland and boring. and for those that can't do them they will remain forever out of their reach.

> >

> > GW2 was in every way, the wrong game set up to add raids.

> >

> > Games like WoW were perfect in their game set up and system for Raids.

> >

> > You can see it in this topic alone, people get their armor, their gear, and.. then.. much like Dungeons after you got the gear,, Raids lose their shine. If the rewards in raids remain Good, people will farm them like they did CoF, and much like CoF farm, if you were not experienced and and didn't have the right build.. you would pretty much never going to get into a group.

> >

> > It's not "Raids" that are the problem. Raids are amazing in some games, they are the games life blood,.. but GW2 is just the wrong game system for them.

>

> There is no true end game in Gw2 which makes the rest of your post completely irrelevant.

 

if that was true.. no one would have asked for raids

[Vulf.3098]

> @"STIHL.2489" said:

> > @"Vulf.3098" said:

> > > @"STIHL.2489" said:

> > > > @"Vulf.3098" said:

> > > > > @"STIHL.2489" said:

> > > > > > @"Henry.5713" said:

> > > > > > Sometimes wonder if half of the people talking about toxic raiders even bothered to try raids properly in the first place or if they are simply repeating that stereotype because of something they heard second hand? Also makes me wonder why most people in the raiding guilds I know aren't even close to being that way.

> > > > > > Guess I am just lucky.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > On the actual numbers: Why would anyone consider these low numbers in any way representable for the overall population? Not to mention that raids should indeed be considered a huge success if 15% of the overall population actually raided regularly.

> > > > >

> > > > > I would be amazed if it was 15% to be honest. Anet said that 20% "tried" raids. I would imagine far less continued on with them.

> > > >

> > > > Even if it was as low as 5% of the population that is still a very acceptable number for content that is supposed to be niche. It would be problem if raiding was the main focal point in the game which is not and should never be.

> > > >

> > >

> > > The problem is,if they set it up so that Raids are "End game" then everyone will want to do them. Now in games that have raids from the start, it's not such a big matter, as everyone walking in knows they need to either get gud, or they wont be end -game.

> > >

> > > Some games have varying raids, like easy Raids, Hard Raids, and often the solution to most of these games is power creep. Power Creep allows more casual players to level beyond a raid, and then do it, maybe for the story, or maybe because of a look or even in some cases the raid gear is still better then the higher level loot-gen gear, so it's worth it to hem to still do the Raid over level. So there is still a motive.. and all the "hard core" players have moved on to the next harder raid.

> > >

> > > MMO's built that way.. work.. because that kind of system works with that kind of game content.

> > >

> > > In a game like GW2, it does not work as well, because there is no leveling power creep, thus the raids become stagnant, those that do them will memorize them to the point that they are trivial and boring, and this demand harder and harder content.

> > >

> > > Where in games like WoW that was easily provided by a level up, a new raid that was harder then the last one, and the gear that will make it easy is locked behind the raid itself., by the time people master that content, they put out a new expansion, and keep the process going. Perfect for people that enjoy raids and the challenge associated with them.

> > >

> > > GW2 has trapped themselves by saying they would have no Level-Up power creep. So the raids we have today will remain max level.. and for raiders they will spiral down to bland and boring. and for those that can't do them they will remain forever out of their reach.

> > >

> > > GW2 was in every way, the wrong game set up to add raids.

> > >

> > > Games like WoW were perfect in their game set up and system for Raids.

> > >

> > > You can see it in this topic alone, people get their armor, their gear, and.. then.. much like Dungeons after you got the gear,, Raids lose their shine. If the rewards in raids remain Good, people will farm them like they did CoF, and much like CoF farm, if you were not experienced and and didn't have the right build.. you would pretty much never going to get into a group.

> > >

> > > It's not "Raids" that are the problem. Raids are amazing in some games, they are the games life blood,.. but GW2 is just the wrong game system for them.

> >

> > There is no true end game in Gw2 which makes the rest of your post completely irrelevant.

>

> if that was true.. no one would have asked for raids

 

You are really confused on what end game is and means.

 

End game is content that you do for character power progression which doesn't really exist in this game at least in the form of Raiding, PvP'ing, WvW fractals etc.. which is considering end game in other games because the best gear and character stat increasing is tied to it. You choose to Raid and PvP because that is your preferred content.

[Lilyanna.9361]

Nah, not anymore.

 

Gw2 raids are boring. The items are hideous so my collector's syndrome won't bring me to do it like the rest of the content. I know how to dodge and been PvPing for 2+ years so it ain't gonna teach me that. Rotations I learned from when dungeons were popular so it ain't teaching me that. I gain more gold an hour than any raider I met during the times I farm so it ain't giving me gold.

 

So what's left? Ugly legendary armor and ascended trinkets? I have mostly ascended characters. Sorry fam, but that's still not enough for me lol.

[IndigoSundown.5419]

> @"Tyson.5160" said:

> > @"Zoltreez.6435" said:

> > > @"Super Hayes.6890" said:

> > > I accept that I don't have the time or skill. What burns me is that there isn't an option to play the raids on an easy setting with zero rewards so I can at least experience the story. I'm stuck reading a wiki for that :(

> >

> > yep i never in my life gonna ever see DHUUM in this game... Locking a Core Lore figure in the GW world away into Raids.... THX ANET !!!!! not....

>

> Did you fight Dhuum in gw1? I would have considered him a raid like boss back in the Underworld. I recall having to gather several different groups in an attempt to fight Dhuum and eventually I got a kill. Not sure how it’s any different now.

 

The difference between adequate builds and optimal builds in GW was much smaller than the similar difference in GW2. Look at the damage force multipliers that the GW2 buff system churns out. Sure, GW had synergy, and best setups for speed runs. However, my guild would sometimes do UW or FoW runs in GW without maximizing our setup. We never even sniffed speed run numbers, but were able to complete the runs without too much trouble.

 

GW2 raids are not, of course, tuned for the most optimal party setup. However, they are tuned to at least offer a challenge to players who are going to bring the optimal. Given the difference in effectiveness, that means that a lot of builds which are adequate anywhere else in GW2 (other than, perhaps, ranked PvP or premade WvW groups) are more likely to fail.

[JVJD.4912]

> @"Lilyanna.9361" said:

> Nah, not anymore.

>

> Gw2 raids are boring. The items are hideous so my collector's syndrome won't bring me to do it like the rest of the content. I know how to dodge and been PvPing for 2+ years so it ain't gonna teach me that. Rotations I learned from when dungeons were popular so it ain't teaching me that. I gain more gold an hour than any raider I met during the times I farm so it ain't giving me gold.

>

> So what's left? Ugly legendary armor and ascended trinkets? I have mostly ascended characters. Sorry fam, but that's still not enough for me lol.

 

This exactly the same way me and my older guild felt. We were actually counting on the legendary armor to awe us but......so much disappointment that day lol

[STIHL.2489]

> @"Vulf.3098" said:

> > @"STIHL.2489" said:

> > > @"Vulf.3098" said:

> > > > @"STIHL.2489" said:

> > > > > @"Vulf.3098" said:

> > > > > > @"STIHL.2489" said:

> > > > > > > @"Henry.5713" said:

> > > > > > > Sometimes wonder if half of the people talking about toxic raiders even bothered to try raids properly in the first place or if they are simply repeating that stereotype because of something they heard second hand? Also makes me wonder why most people in the raiding guilds I know aren't even close to being that way.

> > > > > > > Guess I am just lucky.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > On the actual numbers: Why would anyone consider these low numbers in any way representable for the overall population? Not to mention that raids should indeed be considered a huge success if 15% of the overall population actually raided regularly.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I would be amazed if it was 15% to be honest. Anet said that 20% "tried" raids. I would imagine far less continued on with them.

> > > > >

> > > > > Even if it was as low as 5% of the population that is still a very acceptable number for content that is supposed to be niche. It would be problem if raiding was the main focal point in the game which is not and should never be.

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > The problem is,if they set it up so that Raids are "End game" then everyone will want to do them. Now in games that have raids from the start, it's not such a big matter, as everyone walking in knows they need to either get gud, or they wont be end -game.

> > > >

> > > > Some games have varying raids, like easy Raids, Hard Raids, and often the solution to most of these games is power creep. Power Creep allows more casual players to level beyond a raid, and then do it, maybe for the story, or maybe because of a look or even in some cases the raid gear is still better then the higher level loot-gen gear, so it's worth it to hem to still do the Raid over level. So there is still a motive.. and all the "hard core" players have moved on to the next harder raid.

> > > >

> > > > MMO's built that way.. work.. because that kind of system works with that kind of game content.

> > > >

> > > > In a game like GW2, it does not work as well, because there is no leveling power creep, thus the raids become stagnant, those that do them will memorize them to the point that they are trivial and boring, and this demand harder and harder content.

> > > >

> > > > Where in games like WoW that was easily provided by a level up, a new raid that was harder then the last one, and the gear that will make it easy is locked behind the raid itself., by the time people master that content, they put out a new expansion, and keep the process going. Perfect for people that enjoy raids and the challenge associated with them.

> > > >

> > > > GW2 has trapped themselves by saying they would have no Level-Up power creep. So the raids we have today will remain max level.. and for raiders they will spiral down to bland and boring. and for those that can't do them they will remain forever out of their reach.

> > > >

> > > > GW2 was in every way, the wrong game set up to add raids.

> > > >

> > > > Games like WoW were perfect in their game set up and system for Raids.

> > > >

> > > > You can see it in this topic alone, people get their armor, their gear, and.. then.. much like Dungeons after you got the gear,, Raids lose their shine. If the rewards in raids remain Good, people will farm them like they did CoF, and much like CoF farm, if you were not experienced and and didn't have the right build.. you would pretty much never going to get into a group.

> > > >

> > > > It's not "Raids" that are the problem. Raids are amazing in some games, they are the games life blood,.. but GW2 is just the wrong game system for them.

> > >

> > > There is no true end game in Gw2 which makes the rest of your post completely irrelevant.

> >

> > if that was true.. no one would have asked for raids

>

> You are really confused on what end game is and means.

>

> End game is content that you do for character power progression which doesn't really exist in this game at least in the form of Raiding, PvP'ing, WvW fractals etc.. which is considering end game in other games because the best gear and character stat increasing is tied to it. You choose to Raid and PvP because that is your preferred content.

 

LOL.. sure.. keep telling yourself that.

I've had this exchange more times then I care to admit. sorry.. not worth the effort to do it again.

[Lilyanna.9361]

> @"JVJD.4912" said:

> > @"Lilyanna.9361" said:

> > Nah, not anymore.

> >

> > Gw2 raids are boring. The items are hideous so my collector's syndrome won't bring me to do it like the rest of the content. I know how to dodge and been PvPing for 2+ years so it ain't gonna teach me that. Rotations I learned from when dungeons were popular so it ain't teaching me that. I gain more gold an hour than any raider I met during the times I farm so it ain't giving me gold.

> >

> > So what's left? Ugly legendary armor and ascended trinkets? I have mostly ascended characters. Sorry fam, but that's still not enough for me lol.

>

> This exactly the same way me and my older guild felt. We were actually counting on the legendary armor to awe us but......so much disappointment that day lol

 

The heavy looks like heavy ass ornate can, the medium looks like you skinned a dragon the wrong way, and the light looks like you took the flamekissed and winged skins, and glued them together with random ass spikes.

 

Idk but the rest of the folk that do high tier content, but I actually don't wish to look like an ugly, colorful rainbow blob of light and disaster while I do my fractals, raids, PvP, WvW or whatever else.

[Vulf.3098]

> @"STIHL.2489" said:

> > @"Vulf.3098" said:

> > > @"STIHL.2489" said:

> > > > @"Vulf.3098" said:

> > > > > @"STIHL.2489" said:

> > > > > > @"Vulf.3098" said:

> > > > > > > @"STIHL.2489" said:

> > > > > > > > @"Henry.5713" said:

> > > > > > > > Sometimes wonder if half of the people talking about toxic raiders even bothered to try raids properly in the first place or if they are simply repeating that stereotype because of something they heard second hand? Also makes me wonder why most people in the raiding guilds I know aren't even close to being that way.

> > > > > > > > Guess I am just lucky.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > On the actual numbers: Why would anyone consider these low numbers in any way representable for the overall population? Not to mention that raids should indeed be considered a huge success if 15% of the overall population actually raided regularly.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > I would be amazed if it was 15% to be honest. Anet said that 20% "tried" raids. I would imagine far less continued on with them.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Even if it was as low as 5% of the population that is still a very acceptable number for content that is supposed to be niche. It would be problem if raiding was the main focal point in the game which is not and should never be.

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > The problem is,if they set it up so that Raids are "End game" then everyone will want to do them. Now in games that have raids from the start, it's not such a big matter, as everyone walking in knows they need to either get gud, or they wont be end -game.

> > > > >

> > > > > Some games have varying raids, like easy Raids, Hard Raids, and often the solution to most of these games is power creep. Power Creep allows more casual players to level beyond a raid, and then do it, maybe for the story, or maybe because of a look or even in some cases the raid gear is still better then the higher level loot-gen gear, so it's worth it to hem to still do the Raid over level. So there is still a motive.. and all the "hard core" players have moved on to the next harder raid.

> > > > >

> > > > > MMO's built that way.. work.. because that kind of system works with that kind of game content.

> > > > >

> > > > > In a game like GW2, it does not work as well, because there is no leveling power creep, thus the raids become stagnant, those that do them will memorize them to the point that they are trivial and boring, and this demand harder and harder content.

> > > > >

> > > > > Where in games like WoW that was easily provided by a level up, a new raid that was harder then the last one, and the gear that will make it easy is locked behind the raid itself., by the time people master that content, they put out a new expansion, and keep the process going. Perfect for people that enjoy raids and the challenge associated with them.

> > > > >

> > > > > GW2 has trapped themselves by saying they would have no Level-Up power creep. So the raids we have today will remain max level.. and for raiders they will spiral down to bland and boring. and for those that can't do them they will remain forever out of their reach.

> > > > >

> > > > > GW2 was in every way, the wrong game set up to add raids.

> > > > >

> > > > > Games like WoW were perfect in their game set up and system for Raids.

> > > > >

> > > > > You can see it in this topic alone, people get their armor, their gear, and.. then.. much like Dungeons after you got the gear,, Raids lose their shine. If the rewards in raids remain Good, people will farm them like they did CoF, and much like CoF farm, if you were not experienced and and didn't have the right build.. you would pretty much never going to get into a group.

> > > > >

> > > > > It's not "Raids" that are the problem. Raids are amazing in some games, they are the games life blood,.. but GW2 is just the wrong game system for them.

> > > >

> > > > There is no true end game in Gw2 which makes the rest of your post completely irrelevant.

> > >

> > > if that was true.. no one would have asked for raids

> >

> > You are really confused on what end game is and means.

> >

> > End game is content that you do for character power progression which doesn't really exist in this game at least in the form of Raiding, PvP'ing, WvW fractals etc.. which is considering end game in other games because the best gear and character stat increasing is tied to it. You choose to Raid and PvP because that is your preferred content.

>

> LOL.. sure.. keep telling yourself that.

> I've had this exchange more times then I care to admit. sorry.. not worth the effort to do it again.

 

Being wrong is not the end of the world.

[Auri.1365]

> @"IndigoSundown.5419" said:

 

> GW2 raids are not, of course, tuned for the most optimal party setup. However, they are tuned to at least offer a challenge to players who are going to bring the optimal. Given the difference in effectiveness, that means that a lot of builds which are adequate anywhere else in GW2 (other than, perhaps, ranked PvP or premade WvW groups) are more likely to fail.

 

You can for example do Gorse (no updraft, so with high dps check) with a non-meta setup. Our main chrono tank wasn't there and another exp chrono didn't have time either. So we had a semi exp chrono with no tank gear and me with hardly any experience on chrono and no tank gear as well.

So in the end we had a scourge as tank, two not very exp chronos, a newbie who hasn't done Gorse before and in general people not playing their usual class/role.

And it still worked.

(BTW my guild raids casually and we don't even do full clears and most of us just do average dps)

 

There are many builds and setups that work without being meta.