Turk.5460 Posted January 4, 2018 Share Posted January 4, 2018 > @"Bish.8627" said: > They should never have introduced ascended. I said it then, I say it now. As small a difference it makes, it makes a difference. And gives the edge to players who can afford it rather than the player more skilled. If a 5% difference in stats makes or breaks your fight, then you have much bigger problems to worry about... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swagger.1459 Posted January 4, 2018 Share Posted January 4, 2018 > @"Swadow.6213" said: > It is simple as the title says. WvW should be using balanced gear just like PvP uses. The PvE power creep is way too strong for the game mode to be even the least bit of fun. That would kill build diversity, not address the real issues. Also, this would tee off much of the playerbase who invested time and gold making gear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rasp Sabreblade.5421 Posted January 4, 2018 Share Posted January 4, 2018 > @"Swagger.1459" said: > > @"Swadow.6213" said: > > It is simple as the title says. WvW should be using balanced gear just like PvP uses. The PvE power creep is way too strong for the game mode to be even the least bit of fun. > > That would kill build diversity, not address the real issues. Also, this would tee off much of the playerbase who invested time and gold making gear. I don't think anyone is saying to move to a single gear/amulet system like pvp. I think we (at least I am) are talking bringing the stats more in line with the mins and maxs of the pvp system. WvW is pvp on a larger scale and shouldn't be treated as PvE. Quite honestly, in terms of PvE who cares if there is power creep - they can just make the mobs stronger, tougher and with more health and we would really never know the difference. Right now you can get 1 shotted from a Champ and no one cares (you might get kicked from the group - whatever). But you get 1 shotted from another player, now this is a big deal and should be addressed. All professions should be on a balanced playing field and it should matter what your skill is, and not just how much power creep your profession has. Side note: Personally, I would like to see a change to how runes for gear works. Currently, we have minor, major and superior runes and the minor portion of the superior runes has power creep over the minor and major versions. We have to have 6 superior runes to make the full set, to get the benefit of all the stats. I would like to see it brought down the a 3 slot type system not placed in gear, where the first slot is minor (2 stats only), second slot is major (2 stats only) and 3 slot is superior (2 stats only). Now, since it is separate from the gear, it could allow for system much like we have for weapon swapping, where you would have 2 - 3 slot rows, which would allow a semi-rune swap out of combat. Plus, this type of system would make minor and major runes more valuable and remove some of the rune bloat we currently have. This in essence would actually create a more build diversity, because the 2 stats you get from superior runes are no longer linked to having 6 of the same rune. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaiser.9873 Posted January 5, 2018 Share Posted January 5, 2018 > @"BeepBoopBop.5403" said: > > @"ProverbsofHell.2307" said: > > Show me the gear imbalance. > > Minstrel dire trailblazer That is open and easy for anyone to acquire. Still not seeing the problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyper Cutter.9376 Posted January 5, 2018 Share Posted January 5, 2018 > @"LetoII.3782" said: > > @"BeepBoopBop.5403" said: > > > @"ProverbsofHell.2307" said: > > > Show me the gear imbalance. > > > > Minstrel dire trailblazer > > nod, look on the trading post basically If you're talking about the prices of Maguuma Lilies and Freshwater Pearls, that's because they've got terrible drop rates more than anything. Black Diamonds cost a lot less, despite being needed for _the_ condition stat (Viper), because they're easier to get. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KrHome.1920 Posted January 5, 2018 Share Posted January 5, 2018 Gear is not the biggest issue. Inconsequent application of sPvP skillsplitting to WvW is an issue. Why do Warriors still have 2x4=8s Endure/Defy Pain in WvW? It's broken! They deal a lot more damage in WvW and can slot 50% Endurance Sigills. That's enough to compensate. Dire/TB Scourges are annoying to fight but there are at least some counters (like full zerk Hammer Revs or full zerk LB Soulbeasts). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sovereign.1093 Posted January 5, 2018 Share Posted January 5, 2018 i spent a lot but i dont.mind if it improves the game and brings ppl back Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klipso.8653 Posted January 5, 2018 Share Posted January 5, 2018 > @"Sovereign.1093" said: > i spent a lot but i dont.mind if it improves the game and brings ppl back If they ruin WvW with that shit system that killed sPvP it's going to be the final nail in the coffin for a lot more people than the game mode would gain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProverbsofHell.2307 Posted January 5, 2018 Share Posted January 5, 2018 > @"KrHome.1920" said: > Gear is not the biggest issue. Inconsequent application of sPvP skillsplitting to WvW is an issue. Why do Warriors still have 2x4=8s Endure/Defy Pain in WvW? It's broken! They deal a lot more damage in WvW and can slot 50% Endurance Sigills. That's enough to compensate. > > Dire/TB Scourges are annoying to fight but there are at least some counters (like full zerk Hammer Revs or full zerk LB Soulbeasts). Endure Pain is actually pretty bad. Huge cooldown. Power damage is like, no threat at all. Balanced stance is a much better choice - pulsing stab, immunity to crits, lower CD. Honestly I think only noobish warriors will use EP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KrHome.1920 Posted January 5, 2018 Share Posted January 5, 2018 > @"ProverbsofHell.2307" said: > > @"KrHome.1920" said: > > Gear is not the biggest issue. Inconsequent application of sPvP skillsplitting to WvW is an issue. Why do Warriors still have 2x4=8s Endure/Defy Pain in WvW? It's broken! They deal a lot more damage in WvW and can slot 50% Endurance Sigills. That's enough to compensate. > > > > Dire/TB Scourges are annoying to fight but there are at least some counters (like full zerk Hammer Revs or full zerk LB Soulbeasts). > > Endure Pain is actually pretty bad. Huge cooldown. Power damage is like, no threat at all. Balanced stance is a much better choice - pulsing stab, immunity to crits, lower CD. Honestly I think only noobish warriors will use EP. Guess you play Spellbreaker... on Core Warr (which is much stronger **in WvW duells** as competent players will avoid your Full Counter) Double EP was meta the last time I checked the build. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turk.5460 Posted January 5, 2018 Share Posted January 5, 2018 > @"KrHome.1920" said: > > @"ProverbsofHell.2307" said: > > > @"KrHome.1920" said: > > > Gear is not the biggest issue. Inconsequent application of sPvP skillsplitting to WvW is an issue. Why do Warriors still have 2x4=8s Endure/Defy Pain in WvW? It's broken! They deal a lot more damage in WvW and can slot 50% Endurance Sigills. That's enough to compensate. > > > > > > Dire/TB Scourges are annoying to fight but there are at least some counters (like full zerk Hammer Revs or full zerk LB Soulbeasts). > > > > Endure Pain is actually pretty bad. Huge cooldown. Power damage is like, no threat at all. Balanced stance is a much better choice - pulsing stab, immunity to crits, lower CD. Honestly I think only noobish warriors will use EP. > Guess you play Spellbreaker... on Core Warr (which is much stronger **in WvW duells** as competent players will avoid your Full Counter) Double EP was meta the last time I checked the build. Yup, it is and has been Meta, and I've yet to come across a roaming Warrior who *doesn't* use double EP - myself included. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baldrick.8967 Posted January 5, 2018 Share Posted January 5, 2018 It's not the gear- it's the skills and combinations that cause the issues in wvw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babazhook.6805 Posted January 5, 2018 Share Posted January 5, 2018 The armor specs themself are not issues. There no need to remove any specific typ and none "outperform" as being suggested. This can be demonstrated quite easily by taking specs out of various classes and matching them up against themselves internally. Take a D/D DB blossom thief wearing a mix of shamans/ apothecary or settlers in a condition build wherein he specs to take advantage of heals (even as poor as they can appear to be) and face him up a thief in Dire using D/D and the same deathblossom and the former will generally win. Every DB that lands, every use of a skill via something like assassins reward and or SOM as the heal will output more healing that will outperform the combo of added toughness, vitality and even condition damage that thief in dire might have. That same thief wearing that Shamans/apothecary mix will then face issues when facing any build that has immobs in its build as that healing can be too easily "shutoff" . As example up against a p/d thief using conditions wearing Dire the latter can simply use P/d 2 two at the right point in the DB evade, load on conditions and kite away. Just as using shamans mix against a dire thief in a like for like Deathblossom build does not prove That MIX op , the P/d thief in dire using Immobs to neutralize that build while he himself wears dire does not prove Dire is op. Any issues with "balance" lie elsewhere and these are within the skills traits and utilities a given class has access to and in what combination. Another example. There a small group of us that was facing a group of players that had Scourges running with bubble warriors along with a few thieves. We were all on melee specs and were getting our backsides handed to us. I logged of the exisiting build I was on and pulled in my at range DE spec thief and along with a ranger we easily handled the scourges from range. Once those Scourges taken out the rest dropped rather easily to the melee group. No one on the defending side changed up armor. All that happened is a few specs entered the battle that could counter their strengths and I think this at heart of many of these "balance" debates. There just too many that think they should have a one size fits all build and are not willing to explore other options and this is exactly what the Open world of WvW allows. I pulled out a power WARRIOR that had higher STATS all round in the way of base power, toughness vitality and ferocity to put in that thief yet that thief fared better in that situation. In WvW one can also has to acknowledge group play . What is often claimed s being OP is little more then 3 or 4 guys focusing down one. That someone in DIRE might live a bit longer in such a situation and perhaps long enough to get away hardly suggests a need to remove said armor. It is just a response to the fact a person might see the need to survive a bit longer when he encounters an outnumbered situation. This OPTION should remain in the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaif.3518 Posted January 5, 2018 Share Posted January 5, 2018 I think this would be an interesting experiment for WvW. Have everybody use PvP characters for 2 weeks. The builds would change...things like swiftness and 25% movement are more important in WvW than PvP, for example. It would be interesting to see if this attracted more people. -Jeff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThunderPanda.1872 Posted January 6, 2018 Share Posted January 6, 2018 > @"jaif.3518" said: > I think this would be an interesting experiment for WvW. Have everybody use PvP characters for 2 weeks. > > The builds would change...things like swiftness and 25% movement are more important in WvW than PvP, for example. It would be interesting to see if this attracted more people. > > -Jeff > The lack of build diversity like in pvp will bore me to death Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swamurabi.7890 Posted January 6, 2018 Share Posted January 6, 2018 For a pvp game mode there is too much pay to win in WvW. We've had Pay to overstack servers. We've had Pay to get the best sigils/runes/armor/weapons/mats We've had Pay to get the best food/wrenches. We've had Pay for expansions for the best elite specializations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlaqueFyre.5678 Posted January 6, 2018 Share Posted January 6, 2018 > @"Swamurabi.7890" said: > For a pvp game mode there is too much pay to win in WvW. > > We've had Pay to overstack servers. > We've had Pay to get the best sigils/runes/armor/weapons/mats > We've had Pay to get the best food/wrenches. > We've had Pay for expansions for the best elite specializations. > > Don’t have to pay for any of those things they are acquired through ingame Gold quite easily, so clearly not pay to win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SweetPotato.7456 Posted January 6, 2018 Share Posted January 6, 2018 100% agree, let player keep their super legendary skins etc. but the stats should be balanced. Thank you for posting, save me making new post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swamurabi.7890 Posted January 7, 2018 Share Posted January 7, 2018 > @"BlaqueFyre.5678" said: > > @"Swamurabi.7890" said: > > For a pvp game mode there is too much pay to win in WvW. > > > > We've had Pay to overstack servers. > > We've had Pay to get the best sigils/runes/armor/weapons/mats > > We've had Pay to get the best food/wrenches. > > We've had Pay for expansions for the best elite specializations. > > > > > > Don’t have to pay for any of those things they are acquired through ingame Gold quite easily, so clearly not pay to win. You didn't use ingame gold for expansions, or didn't you read that far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlaqueFyre.5678 Posted January 7, 2018 Share Posted January 7, 2018 > @"Swamurabi.7890" said: > > @"BlaqueFyre.5678" said: > > > @"Swamurabi.7890" said: > > > For a pvp game mode there is too much pay to win in WvW. > > > > > > We've had Pay to overstack servers. > > > We've had Pay to get the best sigils/runes/armor/weapons/mats > > > We've had Pay to get the best food/wrenches. > > > We've had Pay for expansions for the best elite specializations. > > > > > > > > > > Don’t have to pay for any of those things they are acquired through ingame Gold quite easily, so clearly not pay to win. > > You didn't use ingame gold for expansions, or didn't you read that far. Buying an expansion isn’t pay to win that’s called paying to play the full game, nothing in this game is pay to win and can be had for ingame gold Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaiser.9873 Posted January 7, 2018 Share Posted January 7, 2018 > @"Swamurabi.7890" said: > For a pvp game mode there is too much pay to win in WvW. > > We've had Pay to overstack servers. > We've had Pay to get the best sigils/runes/armor/weapons/mats > We've had Pay to get the best food/wrenches. > We've had Pay for expansions for the best elite specializations. > > Not exactly sure you know what pay to win is, because anything you can get while **playing** the game doesn't count as P2W. 1. No one has to overstack servers, and doing that does not in any way shape or form cause you to become a better or more effective player. Gold earned in game can be used to move servers. Not P2W. 2. Earnable in game by playing the game. Not P2W. 3. Earnable in game by playing the game. Not P2W. 4. In general if you play a game long enough you buy the expansions. Could be argued P2W if core classes were not ever winning versus new specs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaiser.9873 Posted January 7, 2018 Share Posted January 7, 2018 > @"SweetPotato.7456" said: > 100% agree, let player keep their super legendary skins etc. but the stats should be balanced. Thank you for posting, save me making new post. Go play sPvP. Making that large of a fundamental change to the game this long in would backfire in epic ways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swamurabi.7890 Posted January 8, 2018 Share Posted January 8, 2018 > @"Kaiser.9873" said: > > @"Swamurabi.7890" said: > > For a pvp game mode there is too much pay to win in WvW. > > > > We've had Pay to overstack servers. > > We've had Pay to get the best sigils/runes/armor/weapons/mats > > We've had Pay to get the best food/wrenches. > > We've had Pay for expansions for the best elite specializations. > > > > > > Not exactly sure you know what pay to win is, because anything you can get while **playing** the game doesn't count as P2W. > > 1. No one has to overstack servers, and doing that does not in any way shape or form cause you to become a better or more effective player. Gold earned in game can be used to move servers. Not P2W. > 2. Earnable in game by playing the game. Not P2W. > 3. Earnable in game by playing the game. Not P2W. > 4. In general if you play a game long enough you buy the expansions. Could be argued P2W if core classes were not ever winning versus new specs. 1. Nobody has to overstack servers, but it happened. Buygate isn't a term used for no reason. 2-3. Sure you can earn gold in game by playing but the option to pay real money to get the best food/equipment/transfer has always been an option for WvW. There is no advantage between a player in sPvP that started at launch and one that started last month except the learning curve that experience gives, and once that is learned they are equal. 4. Have you heard of vanilla raids where a guild uses the original classes? Next thing you'll be telling me that the original classes are viable in WvW like Necro is in PvE raids. As more expansions are added and more elite specs are added it just increases the gap between a new WvW player and a veteran WvW player and this is something that is not good for the future of WvW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aenaos.8160 Posted January 8, 2018 Share Posted January 8, 2018 Anyone who's played PvP recently understands that this suggestion if implemented,it would make combat in WvW even worse than it is now. Imagine similar amounts of damage without the defensive attribute combos. The "powercreep" that the OP refers to,or "garbage combat" as I prefer to call it,is just as apparent in PvP,and it has less to do with the gear and more with the design of the classes,skills,and traits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shagwell.1349 Posted January 8, 2018 Share Posted January 8, 2018 I prefer a balanced wvw environment over anything. Get rid of armor stats and food. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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