Whats the scrapper for?

[Akeno.4962]

> @"Dextra.8162" said:

> The scrapper is a tank, anet answered your question exactly today lol

 

I kinda wish that it was a pve-friendly tank too, just like spellbreaker is meta for power warrior builds in pve right now. But maybe that's too much to ask for...

[zoopop.5630]

they are in a solid spot at the moment gonna take a while to figure out whats best for them at the moment for trait/skills. however they can 1vs3 pretty damn solid at the moment.

[Derenek.8931]

its for replacing with the new elite spec, every time they release an expansion.

 

Scrapper is honestly garbage.

[Amaranthe.3578]

> @"Derenek.8931" said:

> its for replacing with the new elite spec, every time they release an expansion.

>

> Scrapper is honestly garbage.

 

That's just sad

[mindcircus.1506]

> @"Amaranthe.3578" said:

> Im not talking about numbers here but rather about design.

> What purpose does the scrapper serve? It seems like it completely lacks identity when compared to the holosmith or almost any other elite spec.

>

 

Scrapper is a tank spec in PvE. You mitigate hits with control via stuns knockdowns and blocks.

In WvW Scrapper is a capable small group roamer via utilities and in a zerg, a very efficient group condition cleanser.

 

The "problem" with Scrapper is that it is not a simple option. If you look at the builds others have posted here they rely on combo fields to really do the magic. Because it is not braindead easy like Scourge or Mirage, and because the current PvE meta is still about Chrono tanking, people don't always see the value in it.

 

If you want a good spec to carry less skilled DPS players through dungeons and low level fractals, Scrapper is very viable.

I personally find it a beast in WvW roaming.

[Jaruselka.5943]

I’ve found that scrapper has a niche in WvW zerg combat as kind of a vulture/relfectioneer role: keep projectiles off the comm/front liners while finishing off downs. The new group cleansing support helps a lot.

[Rysdude.3824]

Alot of great insight and advice here everyone. Thank you to you all. Im on the fence about Scrapper. Its one of those specs Ive always been interested in for roaming WvW (mostly for the tanky cc capability) but too concerned with all the negative reviews about it. This most recent patch seemed to have brought it up on the viability scale a bit. Any thoughts on the intended pvp/wvw split? Will it improve the Scrapper?

[Vagrant.7206]

> @"Rysdude.3824" said:

> Alot of great insight and advice here everyone. Thank you to you all. Im on the fence about Scrapper. Its one of those specs Ive always been interested in for roaming WvW (mostly for the tanky cc capability) but too concerned with all the negative reviews about it. This most recent patch seemed to have brought it up on the viability scale a bit. Any thoughts on the intended pvp/wvw split? Will it improve the Scrapper?

 

Short answer: Only by relative comparison with most classes.

 

Long answer: There's a lot of bugs and poor design decisions still afflicting scrapper, many of which I do not anticipate getting fixed in this next balance patch. Additionally, I expect mesmers to be even stronger (relatively speaking) due to the few nerfs they are receiving this patch. I still think Holosmith will beat out scrapper under most circumstances though.

[Rysdude.3824]

> @"Vagrant.7206" said:

> > @"Rysdude.3824" said:

> > Alot of great insight and advice here everyone. Thank you to you all. Im on the fence about Scrapper. Its one of those specs Ive always been interested in for roaming WvW (mostly for the tanky cc capability) but too concerned with all the negative reviews about it. This most recent patch seemed to have brought it up on the viability scale a bit. Any thoughts on the intended pvp/wvw split? Will it improve the Scrapper?

>

> Short answer: Only by relative comparison with most classes.

>

> Long answer: There's a lot of bugs and poor design decisions still afflicting scrapper, many of which I do not anticipate getting fixed in this next balance patch. Additionally, I expect mesmers to be even stronger (relatively speaking) due to the few nerfs they are receiving this patch. I still think Holosmith will beat out scrapper under most circumstances though.

 

That’s unfortunate. But thank you for the information!

 

[Arheundel.6451]

A spec capable of tanking/bruising cannot be considered balanced

 

-tanky= very hard to kill

-bruiser= duellist with sustain

 

You combine the two and you get a broken spec that can easily be stacked and overtake anything and that was the case with scrapper when released, any class that ends up being too tanky and with sustained dmg will be inevitably nerfed

[Vagrant.7206]

> @"Arheundel.6451" said:

> A spec capable of tanking/bruising cannot be considered balanced

>

> -tanky= very hard to kill

> -bruiser= duellist with sustain

>

> You combine the two and you get a broken spec that can easily be stacked and overtake anything and that was the case with scrapper when released, any class that ends up being too tanky and with sustained dmg will be inevitably nerfed

 

Did you read any of the rest of the thread?

 

Scrapper is still pretty much useless, and you can build a better tank/bruiser build out of holo anyway.

[Imperadordf.2687]

> @"Arheundel.6451" said:

> A spec capable of tanking/bruising cannot be considered balanced

>

> -tanky= very hard to kill

> -bruiser= duellist with sustain

>

> You combine the two and you get a broken spec that can easily be stacked and overtake anything and that was the case with scrapper when released, any class that ends up being too tanky and with sustained dmg will be inevitably nerfed

 

You mean Spellbreaker?

 

It’s pretty balanced in my opinion.

[Dawdler.8521]

> @"Imperadordf.2687" said:

> > @"Arheundel.6451" said:

> > A spec capable of tanking/bruising cannot be considered balanced

> >

> > -tanky= very hard to kill

> > -bruiser= duellist with sustain

> >

> > You combine the two and you get a broken spec that can easily be stacked and overtake anything and that was the case with scrapper when released, any class that ends up being too tanky and with sustained dmg will be inevitably nerfed

>

> You mean Spellbreaker?

>

> It’s pretty balanced in my opinion.

Nah spellbreaker doesnt fit a tanky and bruiser definition, its tanky and berserker.

 

Very hard to kill glass cannon.

[coglin.1496]

> @"Vagrant.7206" said:

> Long answer: There's a lot of bugs and poor design decisions still afflicting scrapper, many of which I do not anticipate getting fixed in this next balance patch.

 

Which bugs do you anticipate will not be addressed in the next patch?

 

What specific design issues do you refer to?

 

 

[Vagrant.7206]

> @"coglin.1496" said:

> > @"Vagrant.7206" said:

> > Long answer: There's a lot of bugs and poor design decisions still afflicting scrapper, many of which I do not anticipate getting fixed in this next balance patch.

>

> Which bugs do you anticipate will not be addressed in the next patch?

>

> What specific design issues do you refer to?

 

I don't expect the function gyro to get fixed, I don't expect adaptive armor to get fixed.

 

And I'm referring primarily to the design of gyros and poor traits such as shocking speed, expert examination, and applied force.

[Iozeph.5617]

> @"Laila Lightness.8742" said:

 

> For first core should always be stronger than espec(they are meant too add not outshine core so hard that core is obsolete)

 

It isn't so much that core should be stronger. It's more that a solid core should be the foundation of every elite. Elite specs were supposed to be the equivalent of throwing a mask on your character. You add the elite line to the strong foundation -two other core lines- not to outshine core, but to change the style of play by filtering it through the lens of another profession's play style. The alleged intent being that every Engineer elite spec is still counted as an Engineer, but just another flavour. That didn't happen.

 

Unfortunately GW2 devs didn't want to use masks. Instead they hacked core engineer's limbs off, taped on a bunch of ill-fitting prosthetics, came back later to hack off half of those, and then declared us done. As of late they've ruined elixirs and then said, 'Too bad! Hahaha! Oh, you still need condition clearing? Here, go back to using those turrets we ruined for you several 'balance patches' ago and then ruined even more a patch or so back, to help with that. But wait! There's more! Where before you had good condition clearing from the Alchemy line, now you're going to need two lines to make it work instead of one. Fixt!'

 

As for what the Scrapper's for, its this: An object lesson that you should wait six months or more after the launch of an mmo expansion to see what you're paying for as opposed to what you're actually getting. And well... In a short while more or less the same will go for Holo. Actually wait even longer, watch a lot of youtube to get the 'story' then save your money.

[coglin.1496]

> @"Vagrant.7206" said:

> > @"coglin.1496" said:

> > > @"Vagrant.7206" said:

> > > Long answer: There's a lot of bugs and poor design decisions still afflicting scrapper, many of which I do not anticipate getting fixed in this next balance patch.

> >

> > Which bugs do you anticipate will not be addressed in the next patch?

> >

> > What specific design issues do you refer to?

>

> I don't expect the function gyro to get fixed, I don't expect adaptive armor to get fixed.

 

Well, they already stated they had discovered the fix for both and it will be in the next update.

 

> And I'm referring primarily to the design of gyros and poor traits such as shocking speed, expert examination, and applied force.

 

What is wrong with them?

 

 

[kharmin.7683]

> @"melodyspectrum.2980" said:

> And here I returned after a break and was wondering where all the scrappers went... This is upsetting. I really hope they fix it instead of just eventually releasing another shiny new elite to make the rest obsolete. :expressionless:

 

I wouldn't count on it.

[Lalainnia.3598]

They could honestly just un nerf a bunch of overall scrapper stuff and the traitline+weapon would be fine in combination with the minior tweaks its already been given.

[Chaith.8256]

Scrapper is not a joke, tomorrow damage across the board is getting nerfed by 20% in PvP. Bug fixes to Scrapper..

 

After AntiCorrosion Plating, Recovery Matrix, with damage nerfs, Scrapper revives will be relevant in PvP. For those that know how to really support with it.

 

Really viable pick. Since last patch, Scrapper. can stand up to Scourges, now the jaded engineer PvP population just needs to shake the rust off, and catch up with the new Scrapper balance. Bug fixes pending........

[Ghos.1326]

> @"Chaith.8256" said:

> Scrapper is not a joke, tomorrow damage across the board is getting nerfed by 20% in PvP. Bug fixes to Scrapper..

>

> After AntiCorrosion Plating, Recovery Matrix, with damage nerfs, Scrapper revives will be relevant in PvP. For those that know how to really support with it.

>

> Really viable pick. Since last patch, Scrapper. can stand up to Scourges, now the jaded engineer PvP population just needs to shake the rust off, and catch up with the new Scrapper balance. Bug fixes pending........

 

I'm hyped for the return of Scrapper.

[Anthony.3207]

Scrapper is very powerful - at supporting

 

You guys want scrapper to be a heavy damage dealing tank. It will never happen. That's not scrapper role. Never will be.

 

Scrapper has a water field with gyro tool belt and a reflect dome as well as 4 support gyros and 2 offense gyros.

 

They also have good cleansing with traits and good revival skills. They also have a stun and reflect on their hammer

 

If you want scrapper to be a damage spec prepare to sacrifice defense. Maurader armor is good but they can't sustain too well and must power burst enemy.professions. The hot scrapper build is dead. You can't be tanky and bursty.

 

Scrapper is more like an enhancement role than damage or tankiness. You support revive and heal as well as sustain damage cc and control the fight.

 

Holosmith is a better damage dealing role I think. Yea holosmith got nerfs but if you go maurader or berserker you should still be strong. Can't do bruiser holosmith anymore

 

Also holosmith has some DPS bugs.

 

But yea scrapper will never be a solo dps tank carry in spvp or wvw. They feel like support specialists and classic guard feel.

[Vagrant.7206]

> @"Anthony.3207" said:

> Scrapper is very powerful - at supporting

>

> You guys want scrapper to be a heavy damage dealing tank. It will never happen. That's not scrapper role. Never will be.

>

> Scrapper has a water field with gyro tool belt and a reflect dome as well as 4 support gyros and 2 offense gyros.

>

> They also have good cleansing with traits and good revival skills. They also have a stun and reflect on their hammer

>

> If you want scrapper to be a damage spec prepare to sacrifice defense. Maurader armor is good but they can't sustain too well and must power burst enemy.professions. The hot scrapper build is dead. You can't be tanky and bursty.

>

> Scrapper is more like an enhancement role than damage or tankiness. You support revive and heal as well as sustain damage cc and control the fight.

>

> Holosmith is a better damage dealing role I think. Yea holosmith got nerfs but if you go maurader or berserker you should still be strong. Can't do bruiser holosmith anymore

>

> Also holosmith has some DPS bugs.

>

> But yea scrapper will never be a solo dps tank carry in spvp or wvw. They feel like support specialists and classic guard feel.

 

Except when it comes to support, they're also subpar compared to other specs, such as firebrand or tempest.

[NeroBoron.7285]

Currently I'm running a defensive Holo with 5 CCs, and that feels really similar to scrapper. A lot of condi remove and protection application for my group.

 

I really liked the hammer and the function gyro scrapper, but for me it doesn't have a decent role anymore. The barrier changes didn't help there much and only show again that it meant to be a more defensive spec. Unfortunately if you want to play sword on Holo the only offhand that makes sense to me is shield and so it gets pushed to skills with similar feeling to the hammer. Skills with cc, block, projectile reflect and leap.

 

The difference for me is the holo can also be played as a full of burst spec.

 

The gyros tho seem to be more for a support aspect with unique mechanics like bulkwark and stealth gyro. Unfortunately the following logic just sucks.

 

I hope with a new spec we get a ranged healing and support spec, that differs a lot from scrapper and holo

[Ghos.1326]

> @"Anthony.3207" said:

> Scrapper is very powerful - at supporting

>

> You guys want scrapper to be a heavy damage dealing tank. It will never happen. That's not scrapper role. Never will be.

>

> Scrapper has a water field with gyro tool belt and a reflect dome as well as 4 support gyros and 2 offense gyros.

>

> They also have good cleansing with traits and good revival skills. They also have a stun and reflect on their hammer

>

> If you want scrapper to be a damage spec prepare to sacrifice defense. Maurader armor is good but they can't sustain too well and must power burst enemy.professions. The hot scrapper build is dead. You can't be tanky and bursty.

>

> Scrapper is more like an enhancement role than damage or tankiness. You support revive and heal as well as sustain damage cc and control the fight.

>

> Holosmith is a better damage dealing role I think. Yea holosmith got nerfs but if you go maurader or berserker you should still be strong. Can't do bruiser holosmith anymore

>

> Also holosmith has some DPS bugs.

>

> But yea scrapper will never be a solo dps tank carry in spvp or wvw. They feel like support specialists and classic guard feel.

 

Scrapper can go a few ways: A survivable support thanks to healing and barrier, a tanky bruiser (without high damages), or a high sustained damage off bruiser (significantly less survivability). The support does work, but as Vagrant stated, it's definitely subpar compared to firebrand or even support ele. I think part of this has to do with the fact that the one supportive healing kit is so laughable. Healing turret is the best option currently, unless they make a complete overhaul of the medkit and do away with the whole lay a single medkit after every 5/10/15/20 seconds that doesn't heal nearly enough to matter even if it was the only heal that could save you.

I suggested a few changes to the medkit in one of my posts that, I believe, will bring it where it should be.