GS shatter-burst a little too strong?

[dontlook.1823]

> I find this burst combo a bit unfair and too strong. It can one shot most players that aren't using automatic invulnerabilities, on top of witch, it can be used from stealth or from a distance, and, used in tandem with the stun from Mantra of distraction, is very hard to dodge requiring a stun-break and a dodge.

> not to mention it can be done in a second.

> I tried it out myself and I found that I was able to do the same to the heavy armored target golem in the Heart of the mists, which, by the way, has 22,084 health and 2,597 armor. This is just barely short of a typical warrior build, the profession with the most base health and armor in the game.

>

> I honestly think this needs to be nerfed a bit. The entire burst comes out too quickly and executes in an amount of time that's a bit too short to react.

> Perhaps spacing out the damage a bit would be better, just so much that it doesn't take a literal second to defeat someone. > @"NaXorb.9732" said:

 

Power Mesmer does not at all need a nerf. Especially GS. From what it sounds like you're having a difficult time dodging very telegraphed attacks. Even if the Mesmer is invisible for this burst the Mesmer would have to be in full zerk for this combo to hurt. Leaving him/her completely vulnerable. It's really a silly thing to even suggest since GS for Mesmer isn't a really strong option atm and if anything should get a buff.

 

A similar argument would be saying nerf Zerk Staff Elementalist cause its too strong and can kill a whole group of people in 3 hits. The thing is, very few people run builds like Zerk Mantra Mesmer and Zerk staff Elementalist because a good thief would and should train them down in an instant. Such things in GW2 actually do have a serious check thanks to thieves. Which is why they've been the king of Zerk pretty much since the game came out. Also, from a PVE stand point this would hurt the Mesmer so much. As they already have terrible cleave and GS is the only Power weapon that provides enough AoE for a little added burst. Which is not much as stated above. So to balance based off your inability to run some duels and learn to anticipate a, once again, highly telegraphed combo is really silly and would hurt the Mesmer community a lot.

 

 

 

[Solori.6025]

> @"Arlette.9684" said:

>

> > > @"reikken.4961" said:

> > > imo the only unfair parts are the stealth removing the tell combined with the ability to be invulnerable while executing the burst thanks to mirage cloak. plus it being on a 10s cooldown

> > What is on a 10s cooldown?

>

> I’m just assuming here, but it’s likely the 10.25 sec CD on traited Mind Wrack.

 

. . . .

IIRC the mirage build for power mes doesnt use that trait line, and the only mesmer build that does would be base mes.

 

Which would again mean people complaining have absolutely no clue what the class does or even the reality of the risks that come when playing it.

 

 

[Mogar.9216]

I think ppl don't realize is that in pvp there are soo much aoe going on, it's very hard for a full zerker to even try to land a combo in a team fight, chances are the splash damage will be enough to kill him . This leave them good at 1 thing that is 1 v 1 vs soft targets . Any bunker build will have more than enough invun to live through a burst combo .

[Arlette.9684]

> @"Solori.6025" said:

> > @"Arlette.9684" said:

> >

> > > > @"reikken.4961" said:

> > > > imo the only unfair parts are the stealth removing the tell combined with the ability to be invulnerable while executing the burst thanks to mirage cloak. plus it being on a 10s cooldown

> > > What is on a 10s cooldown?

> >

> > I’m just assuming here, but it’s likely the 10.25 sec CD on traited Mind Wrack.

>

> . . . .

> IIRC the mirage build for power mes doesnt use that trait line, and the only mesmer build that does would be base mes.

>

> Which would again mean people complaining have absolutely no clue what the class does or even the reality of the risks that come when playing it.

>

>

 

I personally have incorporated it in mine and I like the extra 25% crit chance, and AoE daze. It all obviously boils down to, how you build and what you build for.

I run draining and absorption sigils, so the ability to get aoe heal and steal appeals to me greatly.

[Solori.6025]

> @"Arlette.9684" said:

> > @"Solori.6025" said:

> > > @"Arlette.9684" said:

> > >

> > > > > @"reikken.4961" said:

> > > > > imo the only unfair parts are the stealth removing the tell combined with the ability to be invulnerable while executing the burst thanks to mirage cloak. plus it being on a 10s cooldown

> > > > What is on a 10s cooldown?

> > >

> > > I’m just assuming here, but it’s likely the 10.25 sec CD on traited Mind Wrack.

> >

> > . . . .

> > IIRC the mirage build for power mes doesnt use that trait line, and the only mesmer build that does would be base mes.

> >

> > Which would again mean people complaining have absolutely no clue what the class does or even the reality of the risks that come when playing it.

> >

> >

>

> I personally have incorporated it in mine and I like the extra 25% crit chance, and AoE daze. It all obviously boils down to, how you build and what you build for.

> I run draining and absorption sigils, so the ability to get aoe heal and steal appeals to me greatly.

 

Intersting.

I tried the illusion line before in my power mes and didn't like the fact i had low boon removal and the loss of the 25% modifier was a little much to me.

Though I also built for max damage from a single burst.. Sounds like you have a bit more sustain.

 

[Arlette.9684]

> @"Solori.6025" said:

> > @"Arlette.9684" said:

> > > @"Solori.6025" said:

> > > > @"Arlette.9684" said:

> > > >

> > > > > > @"reikken.4961" said:

> > > > > > imo the only unfair parts are the stealth removing the tell combined with the ability to be invulnerable while executing the burst thanks to mirage cloak. plus it being on a 10s cooldown

> > > > > What is on a 10s cooldown?

> > > >

> > > > I’m just assuming here, but it’s likely the 10.25 sec CD on traited Mind Wrack.

> > >

> > > . . . .

> > > IIRC the mirage build for power mes doesnt use that trait line, and the only mesmer build that does would be base mes.

> > >

> > > Which would again mean people complaining have absolutely no clue what the class does or even the reality of the risks that come when playing it.

> > >

> > >

> >

> > I personally have incorporated it in mine and I like the extra 25% crit chance, and AoE daze. It all obviously boils down to, how you build and what you build for.

> > I run draining and absorption sigils, so the ability to get aoe heal and steal appeals to me greatly.

>

> Intersting.

> I tried the illusion line before in my power mes and didn't like the fact i had low boon removal and the loss of the 25% modifier was a little much to me.

> Though I also built for max damage from a single burst.. Sounds like you have a bit more sustain.

>

 

Precisely, I got tired of blinking into anti-PvP circle and dying before I can press dodge.

[Solori.6025]

> @"Arlette.9684" said:

> > @"Solori.6025" said:

> > > @"Arlette.9684" said:

> > > > @"Solori.6025" said:

> > > > > @"Arlette.9684" said:

> > > > >

> > > > > > > @"reikken.4961" said:

> > > > > > > imo the only unfair parts are the stealth removing the tell combined with the ability to be invulnerable while executing the burst thanks to mirage cloak. plus it being on a 10s cooldown

> > > > > > What is on a 10s cooldown?

> > > > >

> > > > > I’m just assuming here, but it’s likely the 10.25 sec CD on traited Mind Wrack.

> > > >

> > > > . . . .

> > > > IIRC the mirage build for power mes doesnt use that trait line, and the only mesmer build that does would be base mes.

> > > >

> > > > Which would again mean people complaining have absolutely no clue what the class does or even the reality of the risks that come when playing it.

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > I personally have incorporated it in mine and I like the extra 25% crit chance, and AoE daze. It all obviously boils down to, how you build and what you build for.

> > > I run draining and absorption sigils, so the ability to get aoe heal and steal appeals to me greatly.

> >

> > Intersting.

> > I tried the illusion line before in my power mes and didn't like the fact i had low boon removal and the loss of the 25% modifier was a little much to me.

> > Though I also built for max damage from a single burst.. Sounds like you have a bit more sustain.

> >

>

> Precisely, I got tired of blinking into anti-PvP circle and dying before I can press dodge.

 

LMAO

I know how that goes exactly

Blink in for a random CoR+scourge AoE+Fullcounter to hit you all at once.

 

Fun times...

fun times.........

[Arlette.9684]

Sadly I’m putting my Mezz on hold until further changes. I’m bored of the condi and the power shatter feels sub par compared to other builds, from other professions. For the time being.

 

Yes cry babies, you read that one right. Power shatter feels sub par, for what it offers!

[reikken.4961]

> @"Solori.6025" said:

> IIRC the mirage build for power mes doesnt use that trait line, and the only mesmer build that does would be base mes.

Actually, some variants do run it. but even when you don't, it's still 12s. which is very close to 10s. Enough that rounding "10 to 12" to "10" in casual conversation is fine.

 

> @"Solori.6025" said:

> Intersting.

> I tried the illusion line before in my power mes and didn't like the fact i had low boon removal and the loss of the 25% modifier was a little much to me.

I believe you trade out dueling, not domination.

[Arlette.9684]

Deleted. 15chars

[Solori.6025]

> @"reikken.4961" said:

> > @"Solori.6025" said:

> > IIRC the mirage build for power mes doesnt use that trait line, and the only mesmer build that does would be base mes.

> Actually, some variants do run it. but even when you don't, it's still 12s. which is very close to 10s. Enough that rounding "10 to 12" to "10" in casual conversation is fine.

>

Thats not fine.

Casually shaving off 2 seconds from a skill to fit the narrative of people asking for nerfs is not fine on any class, nor can i think of any other subforum who thinks it's "Fine" to screw up the difference between traited and untraited skills.

 

 

 

 

[Curunen.8729]

Bear in mind the Mesmer is doing kitten all in terms of serious damage between those 12 seconds.

[Svarty.8019]

Working as intended. Sadly, the design document is imo ridiculous.

[Sandzibar.5134]

> @"Curunen.8729" said:

> Bear in mind the Mesmer is doing kitten all in terms of serious damage between those 12 seconds.

 

yet also not taking any damage either so ......

[rank eleven monk.9502]

> @"Sandzibar.5134" said:

> > @"Curunen.8729" said:

> > Bear in mind the Mesmer is doing kitten all in terms of serious damage between those 12 seconds.

>

> yet also not taking any damage either so ......

Have you ever played mesmer?

 

...

 

Never mind. I know the answer.

[Sandzibar.5134]

> @"rank eleven monk.9502" said:

> > @"Sandzibar.5134" said:

> > > @"Curunen.8729" said:

> > > Bear in mind the Mesmer is doing kitten all in terms of serious damage between those 12 seconds.

> >

> > yet also not taking any damage either so ......

> Have you ever played mesmer?

>

> ...

>

> Never mind. I know the answer.

 

Have you ever played mirage?

 

...

 

Never mind. I know the answer.

[Solori.6025]

> @"Sandzibar.5134" said:

> > @"Curunen.8729" said:

> > Bear in mind the Mesmer is doing kitten all in terms of serious damage between those 12 seconds.

>

> yet also not taking any damage either so ......

 

simple math proves this statement false ..

But hyperbole is usually what people turn to when they really

really

want something that kills them nerfed.

 

Trying a class before complaining is too hard for people nowadays I guess

[Svarty.8019]

> @"NaXorb.9732" said:

> I find this burst combo a bit unfair and too strong.

 

No shit, Sherlock!

 

 

[jenzie.4083]

> @"NaXorb.9732" said:

> I find this burst combo a bit unfair and too strong. It can one shot most players that aren't using automatic invulnerabilities, on top of witch, it can be used from stealth or from a distance, and, used in tandem with the stun from Mantra of distraction, is very hard to dodge requiring a stun-break and a dodge.

> not to mention it can be done in a second.

> I tried it out myself and I found that I was able to do the same to the heavy armored target golem in the Heart of the mists, which, by the way, has 22,084 health and 2,597 armor. This is just barely short of a typical warrior build, the profession with the most base health and armor in the game.

>

> I honestly think this needs to be nerfed a bit. The entire burst comes out too quickly and executes in an amount of time that's a bit too short to react.

> Perhaps spacing out the damage a bit would be better, just so much that it doesn't take a literal second to defeat someone.

 

Thank you, I needed some motivation to log my shatter mesmer again. Let the whining commence!

No but seriously, you ain't the first to complain about exactly this and it comes down to You being a bit inexperienced and meeting experienced players. Shatter mesmer ain't easy to play but shattering new players in 1 second makes it worth it.

[Arlette.9684]

Edit: Deleted for intoxicated gibberish. :lol:

 

[Refia Montes.3205]

yeah it's a little too strong for players who are not attentive.

[Daishi.6027]

Honestly,

from the number of button presses (some with significant cast times to reach max damage),

to the total max damage of the burst,

how many things you need to land to reach max damage of the burst,

to the view ability unstealthed plus the read ability due to the limited access to stealth,

how infrequently a "max" full burst and the tools to set it up are ready,

and the over all counter play associated with illusions that more or less do nothing on this build unless mirage;

Power Shatter is the most _fair_ burst in the entire game and everything in the game should be scaled on the same level as power shatter.

 

Can complain about elite specs but really:

Mirage only brought more ways to set up the burst, reliable gap closes, and kill confirm. (Something power sorely needed.)

Chrono gave more resources, multiple chances to land the burst, and double elite.

 

[Thothkepara.2539]

> @"Arlette.9684" said:

> When I get blown up (and hell it happens) by a Shatter, I tell myself:

> “Crap, I didn’t account for that mesmer stealthing and switching on me.” Or “Crap, I didn’t read that guy swapping on me and going full blown tunnel vision.”

> When Casual Joe gets blown up:

> “GoddamnMesmerNubOPIgotmadskillzIdienubzbrokenspecbbqwentonfire.” Or simply “I got killed! Nerf Plox!”

>

> As you can see it’s all about perception and how different people see the same problem.

 

This.

 

I have been a Mes main since vanilla and have more time logged in WvW than anything else. I'm no pro, but I've tried every Mes build there is meta and otherwise. Shatter is one of the highest skill caps in the game, a ton of effort for literally a crapshoot of a pay off. When it works, it's amazing, but for most Mes players, its going to be a frustrating climb to ever learn how to play reliably. If you're a player that's been bombed a Shatter Mes, you're probably a "Casual Joe" who was on the unfortunate end of someone else's luck. If you've been bombed by one several times, it's probably a Mes player who is actually good at a very difficult setup to run with any consistency. And trust me, those people are rare.

[Turk.5460]

> @"Thothkepara.2539" said:

> > @"Arlette.9684" said:

> > When I get blown up (and hell it happens) by a Shatter, I tell myself:

> > “Crap, I didn’t account for that mesmer stealthing and switching on me.” Or “Crap, I didn’t read that guy swapping on me and going full blown tunnel vision.”

> > When Casual Joe gets blown up:

> > “GoddamnMesmerNubOPIgotmadskillzIdienubzbrokenspecbbqwentonfire.” Or simply “I got killed! Nerf Plox!”

> >

> > As you can see it’s all about perception and how different people see the same problem.

>

> This.

>

> I have been a Mes main since vanilla and have more time logged in WvW than anything else. I'm no pro, but I've tried every Mes build there is meta and otherwise. Shatter is one of the highest skill caps in the game, a ton of effort for literally a crapshoot of a pay off. When it works, it's amazing, but for most Mes players, its going to be a frustrating climb to ever learn how to play reliably. If you're a player that's been bombed a Shatter Mes, you're probably a "Casual Joe" who was on the unfortunate end of someone else's luck. If you've been bombed by one several times, it's probably a Mes player who is actually good at a very difficult setup to run with any consistency. And trust me, those people are rare.

 

Or, consider this. Maybe it's not healthy for that much damage to be done from stealth with zero tell, regardless of if you saw the mesmer stealth or not. It was certainly deemed that way for Thieves backstabs, which caused various nerfs directly affecting it's potency year after year. And most recently, Death's Judgement was deemed too powerful for a "no-tell" shot from stealth - even though it already had the largest tell in the game - now it combines that and the requirement of having a large/bright target over the victim's head well before. And each argument you've stated above can be applied to either of those moves I've mentioned (seriously, just change "Shatter Mes" or "Mes" to "Power Thief" or "Teef"). So...why do you think you are exempt?

[Arlette.9684]

> @"Turk.5460" said:

> > @"Thothkepara.2539" said:

> > > @"Arlette.9684" said:

> > > When I get blown up (and hell it happens) by a Shatter, I tell myself:

> > > “Crap, I didn’t account for that mesmer stealthing and switching on me.” Or “Crap, I didn’t read that guy swapping on me and going full blown tunnel vision.”

> > > When Casual Joe gets blown up:

> > > “GoddamnMesmerNubOPIgotmadskillzIdienubzbrokenspecbbqwentonfire.” Or simply “I got killed! Nerf Plox!”

> > >

> > > As you can see it’s all about perception and how different people see the same problem.

> >

> > This.

> >

> > I have been a Mes main since vanilla and have more time logged in WvW than anything else. I'm no pro, but I've tried every Mes build there is meta and otherwise. Shatter is one of the highest skill caps in the game, a ton of effort for literally a crapshoot of a pay off. When it works, it's amazing, but for most Mes players, its going to be a frustrating climb to ever learn how to play reliably. If you're a player that's been bombed a Shatter Mes, you're probably a "Casual Joe" who was on the unfortunate end of someone else's luck. If you've been bombed by one several times, it's probably a Mes player who is actually good at a very difficult setup to run with any consistency. And trust me, those people are rare.

>

> Or, consider this. Maybe it's not healthy for that much damage to be done from stealth with zero tell, regardless of if you saw the mesmer stealth or not. It was certainly deemed that way for Thieves backstabs, which caused various nerfs directly affecting it's potency year after year. And most recently, Death's Judgement was deemed too powerful for a "no-tell" shot from stealth - even though it already had the largest tell in the game - now it combines that and the requirement of having a large/bright target over the victim's head well before. And each argument you've stated above can be applied to either of those moves I've mentioned (seriously, just change "Shatter Mes" or "Mes" to "Power Thief" or "Teef"). So...why do you think you are exempt?

 

Stealth options? Do you mean the 3 secs of stealth on 20 secs cd on torch 4, or is it Decoy with its 40 second Cd and 3 secs of stealth?

The stealth options you have available with this build are VERY limited. If you can’t count to 2 before pressing dodge when either of those is used, well... I don’t know what to tell you. Furthermore, committing either of said two stealths renders you to a free loot bag, for anyone near the guy you just wasted all your defensive cooldowns on. And don’t even get me started on everyone’s favorite anti PvP circle, and Cleavebot 2.0

 

Power shatter needs a buff, not a nerf. It’s grossly underperforming in both sustained damage and sustainability.