Weaver Specialization Updates for the Path of Fire Launch

[BlackBeard.2873]

> @Vova.2640 said:

> Unravel Hexes: Trait has been renamed to Woven Stride. Trait now grants swiftness when inhibiting conditions are inflicted, regeneration when swiftness or superspeed is gained, and increases swiftness effectiveness from 33% to 40%.

>

> How is this is grandmaster worthy???

>

> No changes to the core problem of weaver. 100% disappointment.

 

Pair with water traitline, and either air or arcana and now you cleanse like crazy. Sure, the trait is 100% useless without water-line.

 

When I look at weaver traits....I am really kind of confused. There isn't a clear vision at all. There aren't really any build-defining traits at GM besides woven-stride (when paired with water as mentioned). The other options are: "Take this if you want to attunement camp, or maybe max out damage modifiers for a crazy 1-shot burst." and "get a little extra defense that isn't appreciable for what you would do anyway." None of them make me want to say "Yea, I could make a cool build out of that!" Instead, I just feel "yea, there might be some build that makes use of it." Given that eles don't exactly have amazing build diversity, and weaver is quite restrictive on its own, that is kind of a problem.

 

The middle set of traits don't really inspire either. you get either "free condi dps," "extra swiftness for the woven-stride/cleansing water build" (or maybe b/c you'll desperately need it to prevent getting kited like crazy when you have 180 range and no weapon-swap), and "the stance one you probably don't want to take because only twist of fate seems really good, this doesn't even reduce CD's"

 

I STRONG feel that weaver is just going to end up with a bruiser build, and the only other fringe option is a silly burn-burst build that is more susceptible and less reliable than even burn guard. The mechanics are just so restrictive and what you get isn't all that great. I mean, when you ask what basically any ele build needs, I don't ever think the answer is "more decent but not overly strong abilities"

[Jski.6180]

I am lost are they an anet person because there account dose not seem like one.. or is ele "do not go here" for anet devs. that they get non anet devs to post?

 

Any way its good to see the sword get some love but still not realty a power dmg wepon if every thing is blockable it leaves a lot that needed on ele dmg in genral unblockable attks.

Still nothing to do with barrier on weaver when it seems like its a core part of the weaver class more so then swiftness and super speed its such an odd chose they made on the class.

Ele core already can have near perma super speed and all the swiftness any one could ever want (i do like the +7% effectiveness to swiftness making ele in-combat speed better then every other class in the game out side of super speed and leaps). Its just in wvw dessert bl you can have this buff on every one all the time and it can be striped from shrines not sure if that going to take away from its effect.

[Lalainnia.3598]

Almost every single class has to run a defensive or class mechanic buffing traitline in spvp. Not that I'm against ele/tempest/weaver having better condi cleanse options outside of water but look at the majority of other classes most builds played run some defensive line or class mech buff line. At this point I would be more willing to have some sort of burst condi cleanse attached to a utility so it works for the whole class and not just the e spec.

[Gaile Gray.6029]

Hey guys,

 

For reasons I don't understand, Karl's posts are not currently flagged as officially being "ArenaNet staff." However, I can assure you that Karl is 100% legitimate, and his posts do represent those of a staff member.

 

I tried a tweak and it still didn't add the ArenaNet red banner, so I'll be looking into this tomorrow. But in the meantime, Karl's the real deal. :+1:

[Mikkel.8427]

> @"Gaile Gray.6029" said:

> Hey guys,

>

> For reasons I don't understand, Karl's posts are not currently flagged as officially being "ArenaNet staff." However, I can assure you that Karl is 100% legitimate, and his posts do represent those of a staff member.

>

> I tried a tweak and it still didn't add the ArenaNet red banner, so I'll be looking into this tomorrow. But in the meantime, Karl's the real deal. :+1:

 

He has a red banner for me. Whatever you did seems to have worked.

[Blue.1207]

You guys, we’re going into the desert, it would be foolish to not have WATER permanently affixed to our traitlines.

 

/s

 

#thirstquenchedfor5years

[Jski.6180]

> @"Gaile Gray.6029" said:

> Hey guys,

>

> For reasons I don't understand, Karl's posts are not currently flagged as officially being "ArenaNet staff." However, I can assure you that Karl is 100% legitimate, and his posts do represent those of a staff member.

>

> I tried a tweak and it still didn't add the ArenaNet red banner, so I'll be looking into this tomorrow. But in the meantime, Karl's the real deal. :+1:

 

Ok good thank you for the heads up. I bet they would like to be recognized as an anet dev too!

 

Back to ele over all. I think support ele maybe done for after what was updated on fire brain 5 condi conversation on a 8 sec cd is a bit much when ppl talk about weaver not having clear this is what they are looking at. There a lot of classes that have the ability do to high dmg be tankly and clear even convent the condis to boons on these cd (i get there an ammo to it but every thing with a cd has an ammo of 1).

 

I realty do not get why weaver even has barrier out side of it being a new effect from PoF so its going to be thrown on all the new elite spec. Weaver needs barrier at its core well before swiftness and super speed. If the base class effect is burst skills and these burst skills give you barrier as a bass class it should give you more effects then giving you more temp. hp.

 

I do not get why more of the other burst skills on dagger staff and scepter did not get touch at all i get weaver is a sword class but its far from a sword melee class only. Its more like a ranged class. What was the point of giving all these skills to the class from its other weapons only to have them on the back burner to sword something that realty dose not fit the ele even weaver as a class type. Dagger feels more like a weaver wepon chain attks on sword feels more like a tempest wepon.

 

Weaver looks like the joke class for PoF and wvw over all ele is the joke class over all now.

[JOO TOO.5193]

PLEASE ANET, WOVEN SPEED IS BLAND AND UNDERPOWERED, PLEASE CHANGE IT BACK, DON'T FORCE US INTO WATER LINE. The weirdest thing to me is, I think that woven stride is more complicated than unravel hexes, being a 3 part trait instead of a 2 part trait, so what was the point? Rather than simply adjusting the condi clear interval, or changing it to a condi resistance, as the boon or partial like soulbeast got, they ensured it had the same horrendous buildcraft bottleneck ele has struggled with for the LONGEST time. All for what? The FLAVOR of water line? that it's only right for water to have the condi clear because water is where all your sustain is? Where is the new condi resistance mechanic? Where's resistance the boon? Why do some classes remain heavily constrained on condi management when condi damage is getting power creep across the board? Yes I'm salty about this, I had a dream build made a reality, and then the keystone trait to it all was taken away, killing it all, and for no reason that makes sense to me, reasons that seem to worsen preexisting balance issues. I just want WvW damage staff ele to be more than a meme again, something that isn't pure thief bait, something that doesn't instantly melt when a necro or rev lands 1 or 2 skills on you. I want air+arcane to not be a terrible idea, due to a lack of sustain. I want air+fire to be considerable for something that isn't a 1 push rally yoyo. I want ele to do damage again, not heavy support like auramancer, and I'm glad auramancer finally has its place to shine, but I don't want to be stuck to 1 build for a whole expansion cycle again.

[katniss.6735]

Can Karl reply to this thread? Is the first part of Unravel Hexes going to be gone, or is just the 2nd sentence changed, with a gain of 40% swiftness over quickness?

I can see why the name should be changed, because the skill Unravel has nothing to do with this trait, and would cause some confusion.

[Khenzy.9348]

> @"Karl McLain.5604" said:

> * Unravel Hexes: Trait has been renamed to Woven Stride. Trait now grants swiftness when inhibiting conditions are inflicted, regeneration when swiftness or superspeed is gained, and increases swiftness effectiveness from 33% to 40%.

>

 

If no internal CD, this makes Weaver+Water basically immune to conditions. Too strong. Ridiculously strong. Stupid powercreep stuff like this is NOT healthy for the game. When will you learn?

 

 

[Solori.6025]

> @Khenzy.9348 said:

> > @"Karl McLain.5604" said:

> > * Unravel Hexes: Trait has been renamed to Woven Stride. Trait now grants swiftness when inhibiting conditions are inflicted, regeneration when swiftness or superspeed is gained, and increases swiftness effectiveness from 33% to 40%.

> >

>

> If no internal CD, this makes Weaver+Water basically immune to conditions. Too strong. Ridiculously strong. Stupid powercreep stuff like this is NOT healthy for the game. When will you learn?

>

>

You wont be immune to condies, it gives you reliable removal outside of straight water, while making burst condies, which is what this meta ( and possibly the next) is more manageable.

 

keep in mind, boon conversion, boon removal, and burst condi application are going to be more prevalent with the next expansion.

This change keeps us from being a bag in WvW and a useless spot in spvp

 

 

Edit: This trait looks similair to the thieves master trait Escapist's Absolution, and will probably also have a 1s ICD since this is a Grandmaster trait and competes directly with a straight damage buff for the weaver.

Also our removal is nothing compared to firebrand

 

[Shadowflare.2759]

Well this is a massive disappointment. We're going to be playing the piano twice as hard as we've had to do for mediocre results. No barrier buffs, no other changes for active mitigation, damage numbers barely got touched, and only one movement skill had their range increased...How is weaver expected to be a bruiser...

[Exciton.8942]

> @juno.1840 said:

> > @"Karl McLain.5604" said:

> > * Unravel Hexes: Trait has been renamed to Woven Stride. Trait now grants swiftness when inhibiting conditions are inflicted, regeneration when swiftness or superspeed is gained, and increases swiftness effectiveness from 33% to 40%.

>

> Replace the "regeneration" with "resistance" and it may make more players happy :)

>

>

 

This is a great suggestion.

 

 

[Khenzy.9348]

> @Solori.6025 said:

> > @Khenzy.9348 said:

> > > @"Karl McLain.5604" said:

> > > * Unravel Hexes: Trait has been renamed to Woven Stride. Trait now grants swiftness when inhibiting conditions are inflicted, regeneration when swiftness or superspeed is gained, and increases swiftness effectiveness from 33% to 40%.

> > >

> >

> > If no internal CD, this makes Weaver+Water basically immune to conditions. Too strong. Ridiculously strong. Stupid powercreep stuff like this is NOT healthy for the game. When will you learn?

> >

> >

> You wont be immune to condies, it gives you reliable removal outside of straight water, while making burst condies, which is what this meta ( and possibly the next) is more manageable.

>

> keep in mind, boon conversion, boon removal, and burst condi application are going to be more prevalent with the next expansion.

> This change keeps us from being a bag in WvW and a useless spot in spvp

>

>

> Edit: This trait looks similair to the thieves master trait Escapist's Absolution, and will probably also have a 1s ICD since this is a Grandmaster trait and competes directly with a straight damage buff for the weaver.

> Also our removal is nothing compared to firebrand

>

 

It's just too strong WITH water traitline, it even provides reliable condi removal outside of it, that's how strong it is. I'm with Phantaram here. This trait's sinergy with water traitline is just too strong against conditions. Lmao comparing it with Escapist's Absolution only makes a disservice to your argument.

Noone's talking about Firebrand here, this is not a matter of comparison and their condi removal is locked behind larger timegates, so no.

[Evil.1580]

> @"Karl McLain.5604" said:

> Hello Elementalists!

 

> * Unravel Hexes: Trait has been renamed to Woven Stride. Trait now grants swiftness when inhibiting conditions are inflicted, regeneration when swiftness or superspeed is gained, and increases swiftness effectiveness from 33% to 40%.

 

Thank you for this.

 

Just to clear something: When I get superspeed or swiftness, will the trait clear them also or the only thing it does is apply swiftness, followed with regen? And the actual condi cleaning will come from Cleansing Water (if I have it in the water trait)?

[apharma.3741]

I agree with the points raised by Phantaram in his first post.

 

The sword cast times are beyond a joke, very few sword chains have a 3/4s cast component and are usually bigger hits or evades which are preceded by a 1/4s component. Here's a link to help you compare them in case you don't have a handy table https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Sword. Reduce the cast time would solve many players issues with weavers sword and allow it to not be interrupted most of the time by daredevils and impacting disruption.

 

There needs to be ways to remove conditions for weaver while staying offensive, selfishly so as to not compete with other specs. The old unravel hexes was what we were all hoping for but this new trait as many mentioned pushes the ele into water trait line again for any sustained cleansing.

[Zilong.1407]

I agree in some ways that there is over-reliance on water. However, I've been wanting to be able to do dps as water since beta. By all means, move some of the sustain away from water skills and traits, but please replace that with a way to actually do meaningful damage with water without resorting to things like the old lightning hammer build.

[Frenk.5917]

There are some major flaws with these changes:

 

* **Sword damage:** as people already pointed out, increasing the damage on sword will not do much. Weaver autos need to flow better. Reducing the casting time to 1/2 on every skill will help greatly in that and it will also boost overall DPS. The condi pressure from sword is not great at all, nor is its power damage. The only skill which made sword DPS viable was primordial stance which was bugged and fixed. I expect weaver to be meta in PvE, but not sword. Sword looks more like a bunker weapon for SPvP than anything else.

* **Unravel Hexes:** the problem with this GM is that on its own it is kind of meh, while if paired with water (assuming no ICD) it's blatantly overpowered. Both scenarios and undesirable, because either it's a useless trait or it becomes a mandatory trait that forces people, once again, to take water. I would suggest changes such as introducing an internal cooldown (maybe 5s?) and makink it give resistance (2s?) instead of regeneration. These changes would allow elementalists to not be forced to take water AND they would also provide counterplay via boon removal.

* **Global ICD:** yeah well. No matter how much DPS weaver does, a global ICD makes it awful to play. It may even be the strongest elite ever, but if it's not fun to play then what is its purpose? To pass butter? Not to mention that weaver is not the strongest elite spec ever and that global ICD greatly kills the flow of the class in every aspect of the game. There are some major flaws with this concept which could be fixed by lowering the ICD on the same attunement to 1s (and keeping it the same while swapping from one attunement to another) meaning that if I want to attune to earth to gain access to 4th and 5th skills I should be able to do so relatively fast.

[Xunleashed.5271]

I really don't get the point of the demo weekend and the request for feedback.

 

Big part of the feedback was about the low dps/cast speed of sword skills. No fix on this.

 

The most discussed trait, Unravel Hexes, was asked/prayed to be fixed and be the "out of water" card for PvP/WvW, as it had an interesting and cool, new mechanic to clear conditions and not be OP. And how you change it? Another regeneration proc for Water synergy (that also looks OP for bunker builds).

 

I wonder why did I waste my time testing your stuff and giving feedback...

[messiah.1908]

it seems ppl now take water,air/arcane and stay in air attunement as the AA cleanse condition with the proc of swiftness.

i wish all class could cleanse condition with their AA .

it might bring the power ele back to the table but atm i think its too powerful as other ppl mention.

ppl wants to drop water trait line. easy fix with give this trait to proc resistance for 3-5 sec when you get super speed or swiftness. puts it on 6-10 sec icd so they wont be condi bunker.

[Evil.1580]

Guys, please, keep in mind something.

 

A good ele in PvP always takes water traitline and this change will increase our damage output (indirectly) because we will be able to clear condis while squeezing nice damage with dual attacks or other attacks, instead of changing to water to clear massive condis on us. Yes, we have to keep the water but at least we got slight boost, don't you think? I am saying it is slight because there will be spellbreakers now and the regen is a boon, also other counters.

 

Anyway, we still can choose our 3rd trait line, but IMO the best choice will be ARCANA.

 

 

[messiah.1908]

> @bOTEB.1573 said:

> Guys, please, keep in mind something.

>

> A good ele in PvP always takes water traitline and this change will increase our damage output (indirectly) because we will be able to clear condis while squeezing nice damage with dual attacks or other attacks, instead of changing to water to clear massive condis on us. Yes, we have to keep the water but at least we got slight boost, don't you think? I am saying it is slight because there will be spellbreakers now and the regen is a boon, also other counters.

>

> Anyway, we still can choose our 3rd trait line, but IMO the best choice will be ARCANA.

>

>

 

taking a full trait line for 1 gm trait for cleanse .... also which make you invulnerable to condi. anet has a chance to make power ele back and even condi ele appearance. just let us drop water attunement

[hindercoat.7318]

I'm not a pvp gamer, more wvw and pve for my daily but maybe i can express some opinions here.

 

I have habit to set up builds and dont know why no choice but water traitline when need cleaning, Diamond skin is awesome but lack of recover ability like written-stone then take water traitline back to duel.

I means each trait may have its style/conditional-cleaning/recover method then we can have choice like diamond-skin in earth, air with swiftness-cleaning and classical cleaning-water(all with ICD, adjusted via ICD2s-4s and boon cover issue when wvw) then see more interesting builds like air/earth/specialization or air/earth/water for bunker if want(no specialization and original weapons), not just always X/water/specialization.

 

Finally, original weapons need better synergy with new specialization (staff weapon2-skills all lack of survival ability when be a weaver).

[Arheundel.6451]

> @Phantaram.1265 said:

> The change to Unravel Hexes is really annoying. People want condi removal WITHOUT having to take the water trait line. This forces people to take the water trait line in order to get what is going to be pretty bonkers condi removal. What was wrong with making unravel hexes exactly as it was just with a 1s icd and remove all conditions? This current version is WAY stronger than condi removal on a 1s icd with super speed but forces you to take water. I can't express how crazy condi removal is going to be with this trait.

>

> Every dual attack, every second auto attack in air, every air attune... and many more sources of swiftness and super speed that are going to make a water/weaver ele immune to conditions basically.

>

> In my opinion revert Unravel hexes to it's normal form, make it remove all conditions, but put it on a 1s icd. This makes it valuable for every trait line that's not water and makes it more valuable for the air trait line while not making the condi removal for the water trait line absolutely bonkers.

>

> The unravel hexes stuff is my main annoyance but also the sword autos are super slow. Every sword and greatsword auto in the game is 1/2, 1/2, 1/2. Elementalist gets 1/2, 3/4, 3/4. The air auto attack buff is a step in the right direction though.

 

You are not wrong! You're very right about the new Unravel Hex, **it's bonkers...but so it's condi application in this game atm**

Will it be too strong? hard for me to say, so far it's certain that weavers will be water/weaver + air or arcana; it's left to see how strong will be our condi removal, maybe it will be barely enough in the upcoming meta or maybe too strong, only time will tell and eventually the trait will get buffed/nerfed accordingly.

 

What it's important is that this specialization won't be "useless" at launch..the rest can get nerfed/buffed later :)

 

Moving on, I see people here complaining about ele being forced once again in water to survive....but every class is forced to have the same line since launch : guardian ( valor), ranger ( NM or WS), thief ( trickery), warrior( defense), necro( soul reaping), engineer( alchemy)....why the complaints?

[Bear.3689]

> @Khenzy.9348 said:

> > @"Karl McLain.5604" said:

> > * Unravel Hexes: Trait has been renamed to Woven Stride. Trait now grants swiftness when inhibiting conditions are inflicted, regeneration when swiftness or superspeed is gained, and increases swiftness effectiveness from 33% to 40%.

> >

>

> If no internal CD, this makes Weaver+Water basically immune to conditions. Too strong. Ridiculously strong. Stupid powercreep stuff like this is NOT healthy for the game. When will you learn?

>

>

 

weaver + water is what we were trying to get away from dude. its ridiculous.