Weaver Specialization Updates for the Path of Fire Launch

[Jekkt.6045]

no buff the the heal, no buff to global attunement cooldown, most sword skills damagewise untouched. i'm a little sad tbh.

[fuzzyp.6295]

Was really hoping to see a reduction in the global attunement cooldown or a trait to reduced it at least. I'm assuming that Weaver is meant to be a spec that plays heavily with Fresh Air now with all the superspeed, swiftness traits and whatnot, but I mean... I dunno man. I'm not really sure that these changes are what the Weaver really needed to actually be a worthwhile class.

[Wraistlin.6072]

I like the changes. I know hopes where high to have some alternative for condition clears aside from spec'n into the water line, but the fact that there is a different way to clear conditions beyond just attuning water and dodging, or using ether renewal or cleansing fire is nice. As well as not just being a boring passive trait, but something that can be built around. I honestly think it opened up a few more builds, as I assumed water, arcane, and weaver was going to be it. Now this change throws air into the conversation. (Edit: Not to mention that aside from the focus on condi clears this change gives us in rotation sustain with regen, which is huge in and of itself).

 

Plus I don't know what base elementalist traits are changing yet. So we don't have all of the same information to draw from as the devs working on the tweaks.

 

The only thing that felt really clunky to me is strictly the sword auto attack chain not continuing through attunement swap. If this was something that could be adjusted I feel the smoothness of weaver play would be there, plus the damage should be higher because you are always following through the chain of attacks.

 

Looking forward to seeing what was changed with base elementalist when that releases.

[Nimrod.9240]

Eles got Karl'd again.

And the changes to core are yet to be revealed.

My guess would be meteorshower damage cut in half, because currently it still does damage to PvE mobs.

[Zintrothen.1056]

No changes to barrier? :( :(

Also, WTF with the Unravel Hexes change? Give me a break... Phataram is absolutely right that water is even more mandatory now. Eles will be effectively immune to condis, but not in the way that _anyone_ wants. We want a legitimately good condition defence that doesn't rely on one single trait in the water line, and _especially_ one that doesn't rely on two traits with flawless synergy. Two balance patches after PoF, you're going to nerf Unravel Hexes because the synergy is too good, and you're going to rebuff Scourge. Then we'll be back to HoT's moronic condi damage with only so many professions having any reliable way to deal with it. As long as you won't nerf condi damage in PvP/WvW and remove/vastly reduce cleanses quantities, I sure hope these extra patch notes on release day include other condition defences in air and fire, so that we can _maybe_ spec out of Water and Unravel Hexes while still being able to survive well enough against a Scourge to put up a half decent fight.

[Clownmug.8357]

Regen from swiftness, huh? So basically Woven Stride is substituting for Invigorating Torrents. Nice changes though, I hope sword damage is going to scale correctly with power now.

[dtox.8397]

I hope Anet change some skills like Monsoon. As far as i remember from beta (i didnt play stress test) this skill was pretty much useless. Staff water3 is a great heal, air3 is a knock back. Now Monsoon (water3+air3) has no dmg, no heal (only regen boon) and no CC. Instead of being a powerful combination its a useless one.

[morrolan.9608]

> @bOTEB.1573 said:

> > @morrolan.9608 said:

> > > @DanteZero.9736 said:

> > > I was hoping to see more of the community perceived issues addressed or at least acknowledged and explained, especially the sword AA resetting, damage, and attack speeds, default barrier amounts, condi cleansing outside of water, and attunement cooldowns. This "slow changes" balance philosophy can make reading these notes really frustrating due to the lack of knowledge on where the class is supposed to end up ultimately (or at least within a year).

> >

> > It would be really nice to hear from the devs about how the class is supposed to condi clear without water. Ele dev only worked on 1 spec yet the changes are minor compared to other classes where the particular dev worked on more than 1 spec.

>

> Hmm, you want changes like the scourge or the thief?

>

> The only thing that could use just a little work is Woven Stride:

 

Not at all given how underpowered sword was and still will be, many people have mentioned the auto-attack issue just for example.

 

 

[Nutshel.7264]

> @"Karl McLain.5604" said:

> * Unravel Hexes: Trait has been renamed to Woven Stride. Trait now grants swiftness when inhibiting conditions are inflicted, regeneration when swiftness or superspeed is gained, and increases swiftness effectiveness from 33% to 40%.

 

This change is opposite of what was needed. Not only you've created ridiculously strong talent that will be nerfed to the ground soon after launch. You have once again reduced build diversity and forced people into taking trailine that we are bored and fed up with. Seriously its been too long we were forced to pick water.

 

The change that I suggest is bring back old Unravel Hexes and apply ICD - removes 2 conditions every X time while under if needed to be tuned town. Slower ticking multiple dispels might prove to be more balanced imo.

 

 

[Azel.4786]

Thanks for the post, but a few things:

 

- First, I think it was a big mistake to not share the full changes that will be made to the class and only comment on the elite spec.

 

I seriously believe that the changes to the core / tempest are already set in stone for tomorrow, so it is a bad move to give partial information as we really don't know how the rest will affect the changes that have been posted (it might just be that it does nothing, or in comes a huge Water traitline nerf that jumbles everything - so yeah, not a good move IMHO).

 

- On the changes themselves (don't get me wrong, I like the idea of the Weaver):

 

1. **Auto Attacks Speed**The first thing that has been commented on a lot. The Auto attacks feel terrible in Weaver, it would have been much better to have a cast time / after cast reduction as a DPS buff rather than a straight %buff. I know this is easier to do (%buff), but I think the flow is much more important.

 

2. **Global Cooldown** is still very prohibitive and goes against the concept of "weaving through the elements", disappointed that this was not changed at all (but I still hold on to hope that it might happen with a buff to the arcane minor, who knows).

 

3. **Bad damage for a DPS**As mentioned by some, the power component of Weaver is very weak and changing only on Call Lightning (Air Sword Auto 3) and on Quantum Strike and Cauterizing Strike (2 skills that require a full attunement) does not do enough to change this. Damage will still be bad, specially so for a DPS Spec - it seems that the class is made to be a bruiser - literally what we have been playing since forever and what Tempest was designed to be.... a.k.a nothing new.

 

4. **Leaps**The change to Polaric Leap was very nice and important one. But the change to Earthen Vortex could have come with it becoming a targeted leap, it would help Weaver to "stick to melee" much better and make the skill more reliable.

 

5. **Stances need help** The fix to Primordial Stance is fine and all, but honestly, the only stance that is useful is Twist of Fate (and it is a very good one, albeit I still think the Superspeed should last a bit longer). All other stances are very mediocre and I don't see them being picked at all. The healing skill is bad, fixed primordial is weak, stone resonance gives negligible barrier and unravel is just training wheels. The elite might be half decent for condi specs, but a condi spec would be much better served with the improved FGS we have.

 

6. **Main one - Traits**And now for my biggest beef, Traits: It is sad to see that Weaver traits are not interesting and some feel like the Tempest traits with small changes. None are very "build defining", so it becomes a clear choice of which is the better one like most Elementalist trait lines are - they are unfun and offer no real diversity.

 

Adept line:

- Superior Elements: Plain power buff, nothing interesting. - It is very meh, but will be the go because of the bonus damage that is needed.

- Elemental Pursuit: Feels just like Air Minor One With Air, but with worse condition to trigger. - Could not exist and would make 0 difference. It won't ever be picked.

- Master's Fortitude: Is a plain fix to a class design (low HP). - It is a possible contender, but it is actually a crutch trait. A dagger ele had a bit of "zoning" with greater range, but honestly any good player would stick to your face and deal damage anyway so this does not fix the "since you are exposing yourself more" problem. It could offer more interesting stuff like means to get dodge, stealth, endurance regen, etc.... but no, it is just a stat buff.

 

None offer any Build defining traits, it has clear winner.

 

Compare it with the Scourge, for example, the adapts have a party buff, a damage (with a CD reduction) and a debuff trait - all very build defining and interesting choices that open possibilities - Weaver, on the other hand, is just a pure addition to the math formula that QT will do when the expansion hits.

 

Major line:

- Weaver's Prowess: Increased condi when attuning to a different element. - Again, meh. Straight damage buff for PvE build to swap between Earth and Fire for the damage. Will be the natural pick for anyone playing Power/Condi to do damage (which really you should to do damage with this elite spec the way it is designed).

- Swift Revenge: Power damage buff - if you are not using Condi / Power to do damage (which is a bad idea due to the low power damage of the spec) it might be picked, specially now with the Woven Stride, but it is only a possible PvP / WvW trait if you are only doing power damage, because Weaver's Prowess is far superior in the damage aspect.

- Bolstered Elements: Stability when using a stance and activate lesser stone resonance (a bad stance made even weaker). - Meh trait for makeshift survivability. You will probably only slot One with Air (which doesn't even get a CD reduction) to gain 3s of stability (1 you are just spinning in the air) and a bad barrier every now and then.

 

Again, none are build defining. It is just "take this trait to do more damage", which is not a very interesting trait (like offering different types of condi at least). 2 could be completely thrown out if the weapon skills get a damage buff, and the last trait could again not existing and people wouldn't even notice it was gone.

 

Compare it with Scourge again, you get (i) great party support with gigantic barrier application; (ii) reduced CD on new skill type and added damage through unique way (nice combo); (iii) boon corrupt for added damage and boon denial changes. All of these offer again, build defining choices.

 

Grandmaster line:

- Elements of Rage: Straight damage buff. - Again, meh. It will be picked because it does damage and that is it.

 

- Woven Stride: The bonus to speed is nice and all and I don't think removing the previous trait was a bad move - the amount of condi cleanse the class would have if it was made to clear all condi would be insane (just stop to think on the combo Water / Earth / Weaver traits), but the thing is, isn't the insane condi cleanse the exact problem?

 

Ele has no way of dealing with condi except for cleansing (and we get that thrown at us via traits that makes it not be possible to give us any other way to deal with condi), so why keep doing this? Why not offer things like condi transfer skills / traits or means of gaining resistance? Both are interesting choices and I think the gaining resistance route would be an interesting one because it does not add to condi cleanse (meaning we won't be just removing everything) and provides counterplay to the other player via boon strip / boon corrupt.

 

And it must also be said, Woven Stride without Water trait line is just a terrible terrible Grandmaster - which is only build defining in the sense that you must take Water traitline for this to actually be a decent trait. This type of thing is fine for Adept / Major traits, but a Grandmaster one should stand by itself.

 

- Invigorating Strikes: Very very low barrier and a 3s vigor? This is just plain terrible, it gives less vigor than Renewing Stamina an Arcane adept trait and the barrier is imperceptible!

 

And here we end with nothing to define our build, the go to will be Elements of Rage (absolute in PvE) or, only in PvP or WvW, Woven Stride if condi gets absolute insane in the meta and Water traitline doesn't cover it by itself.

 

Ending the comparison with Scourge, again we have the concept of (i) party buff; (ii) damage; (iii) debuff. All very build defining and mostly unique in flavor.

 

The Weaver traits are disheartening....

 

[Mr Godlike.6098]

Personally I am glad that after years we got finally dev post on ele sub-forum.

 

Unfortunately non of this changes will improve anything in case of pvp weaver...also...i don't know what to say! WHY Unravel Hexes was changed? Why?! Old trait was great way to make air viable for FA builds to be sustainable or anything else that didn't want to take water! WHAT's wrong with build diversity!?

 

So Healbot stays META in PoF as also only viable build in higher pvp tiers...I played healbot enough in last YEARS so i'am not buying PoF.

[Bio Flame.4276]

If Weaver requires to have GCD, then I'd have scrapped the Weaver idea altogether during the design phase. On a fast paced game as GW2, having a GCD is lazy, backwards design.

 

Change it.

[MyPuppy.8970]

I can't wait to run and cleanse <3

[ApaWanka.2698]

All classes have a mandatory traitline.... for warriors is defense, for engis is alchemy etc etc and for us is water. No problem with that and really happy with Woven Stride. Lets go over that.

 

Weaver now have a really good synergy with other traitlines and Im really happy for that!! Wp devs!

 

Other thing are far more important, like reduce the global ICD on attunements or add a middle separate ICD of to full attune who to flow better. That will be great.

 

Also, increase the Dps on sword reducing the cast times on AA making them like other proffesions 1/2 1/2 1/2 or something like that.

 

Nothing else need to be changed for me atm.

[Kaizoku.1298]

Weaver will still be weak in PvP like this.

[Bio Flame.4276]

> @Kaizoku.1298 said:

> Weaver will still be weak in PvP like this.

 

And weaker still in PvE. Worse, it won't be fun to play a class with a stupid GCD on a game that doesn't have none.

[juno.1840]

Oh my, so much salt :) -- I like what I see in Weaver! Despite many of the "sky is falling" posts, there will be lots of players running on Weaver and enjoying it (reference [https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/1702/poll-which-is-your-favorite-path-of-fire-elite-specialization/p1](https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/1702/poll-which-is-your-favorite-path-of-fire-elite-specialization/p1 "https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/1702/poll-which-is-your-favorite-path-of-fire-elite-specialization/p1") which shows almost 10% of players, which is nearly an equal split for 9 professions).

 

Anyone that has played GW2 for more than a few months knows the game is constantly evolving. I expect Weaver to get better with time as the developers iterate on the design.

 

 

[Leggendalex.4659]

Remeber that Tempest was far worse than weaver on launch

[ShadowRain X.8159]

> @Leggendalex.4659 said:

> Remeber that Tempest was far worse than weaver on launch

 

Waitwut? PVE context? Coz it was Top Tier in PvP and WvW modes esp with the uncapped buffs and pre Diamond Skin nerf.

[Lonewolf Kai.3682]

Why do people keep assuming there are going to be Core changes when PoF drops? Source plz.

[Sao.7146]

> @"ShadowRain X.8159" said:

> > @Leggendalex.4659 said:

> > Remeber that Tempest was far worse than weaver on launch

>

> Waitwut? PVE context? Coz it was Top Tier in PvP and WvW modes esp with the uncapped buffs and pre Diamond Skin nerf.

 

It was bad at launch, then 1 week later they added stability on minor trait and it was godlike.

[ShadowRain X.8159]

> @"Lonewolf Kai.3682" said:

> Why do people keep assuming there are going to be Core changes when PoF drops? Source plz.

 

As posted by the anet OP:

 

There will be a couple more release notes on launch day for the core profession, but we want to deliver the Weaver information a little early so you can know what changed.

[cgMatt.5162]

When you need 2 grandmaster traits to work as one grandmaster trait. FeelsBadMan

[Lonewolf Kai.3682]

> @"ShadowRain X.8159" said:

> > @"Lonewolf Kai.3682" said:

> > Why do people keep assuming there are going to be Core changes when PoF drops? Source plz.

>

> As posted by the anet OP:

>

> There will be a couple more release notes on launch day for the core profession, but we want to deliver the Weaver information a little early so you can know what changed.

Oh wow, I feel incredibly stupid now. Think I'm going to go crawl back in my hole and sulk....

 

Guess I skipped straight to the fixes and missed it. Now I'm really worried about the hidden changes.

 

[Solori.6025]

> @ApaWanka.2698 said:

> All classes have a mandatory traitline....

>

That is actually incorrect.

What you should have said is all META builds have a mandatory traitline.

You can make builds that are still successful on a lot of classes and skip the most taken traitline.