Scourge Specialization Updates for the Path of Fire Launch

[Jayce.5632]

IMO with regards to sPvP, With the additional Shade Life Force cost coupled with the reduction in their effectiveness, I believe that Unending Corruption should now be Unblockable for better synergy with Nourishing Rot, since this would affect Manifest Sand Shade only and not the subsequent F2 - F5 skills. A few of those subsequent F skills already have a pretty significant Life Force cost, with only Corrupt Boon being the best candidate for use with Nourishing Rot. With this change, you may have to give Unending Corruption+Nourishing Rot the same kind of treatment you just gave to Manifest Sand Shade+Sand Savant. But right now, Scourge is going to have a problem with Life Force without reliable means for burst regeneration where deaths are few and far in-between.

[Drarnor Kunoram.5180]

> @MithranArkanere.8957 said:

> In what context could that possibly be a questionable word? I've only ever heard them in slang when referring to sunglasses. This is very confusing.

 

Because everything after the first letter spells the name of the Greek Underworld (and the God who presides over it).

 

At least, that's the only thing I can guess.

[Sigmoid.7082]

> @Sublimatio.6981 said:

> why should i sacrifice 50% of life force

 

I dont think you're understanding the LF cost change.

 

https://imgur.com/9QspTSb

Credit to kKagari.6804

[Hades.9325]

Testing if Hades is blocked or is it just shades (shade s).

[Vyrulisse.1246]

Sad that WvW nonsense brings about more nerfs that will effect them in other game modes. You have skill splitting, use it. Balance in WvW is a pipe dream of epic proportions anyway.

[Sublimatio.6981]

> @Sigmoid.7082 said:

> > @Sublimatio.6981 said:

> > why should i sacrifice 50% of life force

>

> I dont think you're understanding the LF cost change.

>

> https://imgur.com/9QspTSb

> Credit to kKagari.6804

 

lol yeah i misunderstood. point still stands though :/

[Drarnor Kunoram.5180]

> @Hades.9325 said:

> Testing if Hades is blocked or is it just kitten (shade s).

 

Hades goes through fine.

 

I'm out of ideas.

[Kam.4092]

> @"Drarnor Kunoram.5180" said:

> > @Hades.9325 said:

> > Testing if Hades is blocked or is it just kitten (shade s).

>

> Hades goes through fine.

>

> I'm out of ideas.

 

It was an inside joke from the censoring team to make fun of Necros

[Lucifirius.3196]

> @Recursivision.2367 said:

> There was no way this wasn't going to be the outcome at some point or another. It was completely broken for WvW. Not sure how it even made it this far. That being said, I was looking forward to being able to abuse it for a few weeks... ah well! Should still be strong, and likely a necessary component for WvW.

>

> To those complaining about WvW balance bleeding into PvE... how often do you actually need to hit 5-10+ targets? I don't think it's really a huge factor, but my PvE is weak.

 

Raids and zergs. And the duration on the shades are down so now the necro will have to micro the shade positioning while managing the shroud skills and and the normal rotation.

[kKagari.6804]

Carrion and Vital Persistance is more important than ever now for a conditions build in PvP, to get that sweet sub-20% cost for desert shroud for that first team fight.

[Equinox.4195]

> @"Irenio CalmonHuang.2048" said:

> Greetings Necromancers,

>

> As the sands of the Crystal Desert beckon several things have changed since the previews of the Scourge elite specialization.

>

> * Manifest Sand Shade: Reduced duration of shade from 25s to 20s. Reduced target cap from 5 to 3.

>

> * Sand Savant: Reduced the increased number of targets on Manifest Sand Shade from 5 to 2. (So it now increases it to 5)

 

Depression sinks in...

[meeflak.9714]

Well. Was really excited to use my level 80 boost on a new Necro. Looks like I'll just make another gaurdian.

[Vyrulisse.1246]

I mean who hoped Scourge would be viable in PvE and save Necros from the trash heap of meta? What a silly idea. I'd really love to hear some justification for these changes in terms of PvE but I doubt we'll ever get it.

[Umbramare.9156]

There was me hoping being able to play scourge and that they wont treat scourge as they treated necro until now.

 

And here is the nerf before even getting released.

 

*sigh*

 

Scourge players: "We need a viable condi weapon to generate lifeforce!"

anet: "Increased lifeforce cost of abilities"

 

lulul

 

that moment when a traited sand shade that restricts you to only summon one sandshade now has the same target cap as the small ones before.

true overkill

[akenoyuki.8210]

> @"Irenio CalmonHuang.2048" said:

> * Manifest Sand Shade: Reduced duration of shade from 25s to 20s. Reduced target cap from 5 to 3.

> * Sand Savant: Reduced the increased number of targets on Manifest Sand Shade from 5 to 2. (So it now increases it to 5)

 

Really? But.. But why...

Here I am FORCING myself to think positively about scourge since I love main necro

Then.. this happen.. "Why?! Isn't that skill our main attraction as a scourge?! RIP, give my sand back!!!"

\*Sad\* :'(

 

\#GiveBackOurSand

[Thiazi.1250]

So, I have an important question: _why _does the decreased target cap on Manifest Sand Shade also apply to the effects originating from us?

If it did not (we have 5 targets, plus 3 per shade), then this is still a pretty big nerf coupled with the duration reduction, but we can still probably manage good uptime of 2 shades to hit an entire raid. It's not great, but it's workable. It also means that you'd have to get in close range in WvW to benefit from this, which is pretty dangerous with no shroud.

But because it does (we have 3 targets, plus 3 per shade), this pretty much kills the support role of Scourge. Being able to buff 9 people at a time, with potential small spikes of buffing 12 people just isn't going to cut it in raids. That leaves one person unbuffed, with no easy way to control exactly who it is.

 

Either way though, this change feels incredibly bad. It's a pretty big nerf to THE central ability and selling point of the class. It's also out of line with almost every other AoE buff/debuff/attack in the game, which normally hit 5 targets.

 

I'll echo what others have said: if this is a problem with WvW balance, split the skill. Epidemic already has a WvW only property, so it's presumably possible to do a simple numbers tweak.

[Kam.4092]

> @meeflak.9714 said:

> Well. Was really excited to use my level 80 boost on a new Necro. Looks like I'll just make another gaurdian.

 

I'm still going to play Scourge. I will still Main Necro like usual. Scourge will be OP still in Fractals, Dungeons, and WvW. When it comes to Raids though, it may not be used. I was really hoping for it :/

 

My second main is Ranger, and I don't know how Soulbeast will end out.

[Kam.4092]

> @Thiazi.1250 said:

> So, I have an important question: _why _does the decreased target cap on Manifest Sand Shade also apply to the effects originating from us?

> If it did not (we have 5 targets, plus 3 per shade), then this is still a pretty big nerf coupled with the duration reduction, but we can still probably manage good uptime of 2 kitten to hit an entire raid. It's not great, but it's workable. It also means that you'd have to get in close range in WvW to benefit from this, which is pretty dangerous with no shroud.

> But because it does (we have 3 targets, plus 3 per shade), this pretty much kills the support role of Scourge. Being able to buff 9 people at a time, with potential small spikes of buffing 12 people just isn't going to cut it in raids. That leaves one person unbuffed, with no easy way to control exactly who it is.

>

> Either way though, this change feels incredibly bad. It's a pretty big nerf to THE central ability and selling point of the class. It's also out of line with almost every other AoE buff/debuff/attack in the game, which normally hit 5 targets.

>

> I'll echo what others have said: if this is a problem with WvW balance, split the skill. Epidemic already has a WvW only property, so it's presumably possible to do a simple numbers tweak.

 

Other class Devs listened to their players, ours didn't listen to us.

[Lily.1935]

Hmm. hopefully this wont hurt us too bad in pve. Though the struggle to find the correct gear for a support build was already going to be a problem. Hopefully we'll get something strong enough.

[Drarnor Kunoram.5180]

> @Lily.1935 said:

> Hmm. hopefully this wont hurt us too bad in pve. Though the struggle to find the correct gear for a support build was already going to be a problem. Hopefully we'll get something strong enough.

 

According to Wooden Potatoes, we're getting 4 stat sets in PoF. We already know Grieving (Power, Condition Damage, precision ferocity) Harrier (Power, healing power, concentration), and Marshal (Power, Healing Power, precision, condition damage).

 

Capitalized stats are primary, others are secondary.

[kKagari.6804]

> @Kam.4092 said:

> > @Thiazi.1250 said:

> > So, I have an important question: _why _does the decreased target cap on Manifest Sand Shade also apply to the effects originating from us?

> > If it did not (we have 5 targets, plus 3 per shade), then this is still a pretty big nerf coupled with the duration reduction, but we can still probably manage good uptime of 2 kitten to hit an entire raid. It's not great, but it's workable. It also means that you'd have to get in close range in WvW to benefit from this, which is pretty dangerous with no shroud.

> > But because it does (we have 3 targets, plus 3 per shade), this pretty much kills the support role of Scourge. Being able to buff 9 people at a time, with potential small spikes of buffing 12 people just isn't going to cut it in raids. That leaves one person unbuffed, with no easy way to control exactly who it is.

> >

> > Either way though, this change feels incredibly bad. It's a pretty big nerf to THE central ability and selling point of the class. It's also out of line with almost every other AoE buff/debuff/attack in the game, which normally hit 5 targets.

> >

> > I'll echo what others have said: if this is a problem with WvW balance, split the skill. Epidemic already has a WvW only property, so it's presumably possible to do a simple numbers tweak.

>

> Other class Devs listened to their players, ours didn't listen to us.

 

Ah, thats not true, theres been more work put in Scourge than the others, like deadeye.

[FrigginPaco.4178]

Hey, A bit of a segway, but I noticed something that seemed a bit important for a QoL update that was mentioned over by the Firebrand board concerning adding a .5s CD before the Tomes can accidentally be "shut" again. Specifically:

 

"Tome activation skills reduced from 0.75s activations to 0.5s. Added a 0.5s delay before you can use 'stow tome' upon entry into a tome."

 

This would be a pretty good change to add to the *any* death shroud in the game because of how infuriating it feels to be hammering F1 when you need to save yourself and you instantly drop out of shroud by accident. Since summoning a Sand Shade already has a .5s cooldown it already fits the bill here.

 

I just thought it might be helpful for those frantic moments in combat.

[Umbramare.9156]

> @FrigginPaco.4178 said:

> Hey, A bit of a segway, but I noticed something that seemed a bit important for a QoL update that was mentioned over by the Firebrand board concerning adding a .5s CD before the Tomes can accidentally be "shut" again. Specifically:

>

> "Tome activation skills reduced from 0.75s activations to 0.5s. Added a 0.5s delay before you can use 'stow tome' upon entry into a tome."

>

> This would be a pretty good change to add to the *any* death shroud in the game because of how infuriating it feels to be hammering F1 when you need to save yourself and you instantly drop out of shroud by accident. Since summoning a Sand Shade already has a .5s cooldown it already fits the bill here.

>

> I just thought it might be helpful for those frantic moments in combat.

 

The difference is: One is QoL.

 

The other one is to restrict you.

 

guess what is what.

[Bash.7291]

> @Thiazi.1250 said:

> So, I have an important question: _why _does the decreased target cap on Manifest Sand Shade also apply to the effects originating from us?

> If it did not (we have 5 targets, plus 3 per shade), then this is still a pretty big nerf coupled with the duration reduction, but we can still probably manage good uptime of 2 kitten to hit an entire raid. It's not great, but it's workable. It also means that you'd have to get in close range in WvW to benefit from this, which is pretty dangerous with no shroud.

> But because it does (we have 3 targets, plus 3 per shade), this pretty much kills the support role of Scourge. Being able to buff 9 people at a time, with potential small spikes of buffing 12 people just isn't going to cut it in raids. That leaves one person unbuffed, with no easy way to control exactly who it is.

>

> Either way though, this change feels incredibly bad. It's a pretty big nerf to THE central ability and selling point of the class. It's also out of line with almost every other AoE buff/debuff/attack in the game, which normally hit 5 targets.

>

> I'll echo what others have said: if this is a problem with WvW balance, split the skill. Epidemic already has a WvW only property, so it's presumably possible to do a simple numbers tweak.

 

In WvW this honestly seems counter productive as well, Now you don't have a choice but to take sand savant, since if you don't you are only buffing 2 other people in your party, and HAVING to waste a shade in your party to even get get a full set of buffs to your group. If anything I would say maybe just normalize the reaction of existing traits with the shade skills instead of killing this way, put a CD or a target cap on specific traits, or at least just leave the "at necro" casts at 5, and only modify the per targets on shroud at the very least.

[Lily.1935]

Also. mind taking a look at the torch skill 5? I found its might to be extremely unreliable.