Renegade Specialization Updates for the Path of Fire Launch

[Carighan.6758]

Nice changes, although IMO the F-skills still sound prohibitively expensive. Plus, I'm not actually sure the spec **should** have extra F-skills, they feel very tacked-on still. Kalla's Fervor, if balanced a bit better, could easily be enough on its own.

[lmaogg.7325]

> @"Irenio CalmonHuang.2048" said:

> > @Set.7461 said:

> > Can Spiritcrush be used behind you now or is that the same?

> >

> > Edit: also is the missing missles bug fixed with Sevenshot?

>

> Spiritcrush remains targeted and can only be used in a direction you can see.

>

> At least one bug with disappearing missiles was fixed with Sevenshot, so tentatively yes :)

 

From what I tested, sevenshot projectiles isn't the only issue. Bloodbane path projectiles tend to miss for no particular reason if the target moves slightly.

Please fix it as well :/ It's a very cool concept but wasting energy on a skill that may/may not hit is kind meh.

[messiah.1908]

> @"Irenio CalmonHuang.2048" said:

> Welcome legendary Revenants,

 

> Overall we sought to ease some of the energy constraints caused by shortbow energy costs with minor tweaks to them, reduced the profession energy costs to encourage their use while channeling other legends, and modified several of the warband summons to better balance their tactical applications. While we’ve made these functionality and numeric changes there has also been a visual overhaul of the Razor warband summons, conjuring images of ambushes and raids that the Charr of old have become famous for.

>

> The time to fight fire with fire approaches!

 

ok i read all the changes as ppl who know me i mainly pvp/wvw theorycrafter.

you did great job with firebrand - bunker/support with also abilities to condi burning burst. like you said fight fire with fire.

you did too good job with weaver immunity to conditions which probably make comeback to power ele and maybe condi ele.

mesmer probably more tweaks but again power mesmer maybe a comeback

deadeye, spellbreaker, soulbeast and holosmith small tweaks and are still nice for pvp and wvw for direct and condi dmg

scourge nerf to bunker build till we test the nerf (didt get the numbers) but still can be great condi burst option.

 

you didnt give renegade any real chance. yes you reduce nrg cost which are always welcome. but sb needs more love.

if you want sb to compete souldbeast dagger or scourge or firebrand with wvw, raid and pvp you must make it stronger. as those class has evades, cleanse, and higher dmg dps from condi and direct dmg.

 

why melee heavy armor class like warrior and guard has so many ways to deal with conditions while rev hasnt. must we use mallyx ?! oh wait another class who can rip boon. so no.

 

i always try to think is simple way as i know your job is too hard. so if i must choose only 3 simple changes i would want more sustain into renegade as heavy armor class.

more cleanse ability, more healing and more dmg. so consider another ideas:

 

shattershot does more direct dmg - open up direct dmg from range (hammer is too slow atm) so 100% increase in direct dmg.

heroic command - cleanse 1 condition for each stack gain.

order from above - i like the name renew your abilities. so maybe regain 50% nrg when used and increase alacrity for 10 sec. the cd make it 30-40 sec.

 

consider that - power rev is weak. condi rev is weak, bunker rev mid lvl, support rev weak. cant you see that????

i was the first who by POF cant you see i love this game so please consider some of the community suggestion to make rev great again

 

 

 

 

[Joxer.6024]

"Added a removal limiter on the unique buff to prevent it from blowing out"

Ok, I'm Dev-speak illiterate so what does that mean?

[lmaogg.7325]

> @messiah.1908 said:

> heroic command - cleanse 1 condition for each stack gain.

 

As much as I want to see some proper renegade buffs..

- Heroic Command is pretty spamable. 1 condi remove per stack will be literally kek. So no way.

 

> i was the first who by POF cant you see i love this game so please consider some of the community suggestion to make rev great again

How do you even know you are the _first_ ??

[Kidel.2057]

Thumbs up for moving the stun break and lowering some costs. Still the F-skills are not worth using in any game mode and summons will explode in half a second in wvw and get fear in wvw.

 

Can't wait to see the new animations since you hyped them.

 

Can we hope for some buffs on core Rev? Renegade will be worthless against creep specs like the Spellbreaker if nothing is done.

[Host Tar.8436]

Lower energy costs is great thanks! As others have said, some of them are still not worth using for the costs, but I guess I need to play it out in PvE more to see where f2 & 4 will work.

But very glad for most of the changes.

[Yagudo.6759]

Did you guys do any bug fixes for the new skills? Specifically about Sevenshot clipping into the ground or not spawning all the arrows, the spirits not being able to be summoned on uneven terrain, etc..?

[Kidel.2057]

> @"Host Tar.8436" said:

> Lower energy costs is great thanks! As others have said, some of them are still not worth using for the costs, but I guess I need to play it out in PvE more to see where f2 & 4 will work.

> But very glad for most of the changes.

 

You need good dps rotations even in pve, so I don't see how wasting half your energy on 1 slow and weak attack can help.

 

The main problem is that HoT has made conditions the meta. Rev could survive thanks to Mallyx, but now PoF will introduce huge boonrips on many classes. What is Renegade going to do against Weaver perma condi immunity? What is Renegade going to do against a Spellbreaker or a Scourge? Summon a dancing charr for some crupple at 30 energy cost?

[LucianDK.8615]

> @Klypto.1703 said:

> I really like the changes the only potential problem I see is there is no swiftness available with any of the skills or traits. I guess the only problem will either be to choose innvocation for the small amount of swiftness or using speed sigil or traveller runes. Other than that looks excellent especially some condition management besides mallyx :D

 

Mounts should fix the worries about lack of swiftness, as they are 100% increased movement speed.

 

Overall good changes, though I have to agree that the Fskills seems way too costly still for what they do. Especially when considering that condi revenants usually rely on channeling their elites, then swapping legends. And the energy degen on soulceave is extreme at -9 pips.

 

But perhaps Soulcleave is only meant to be situational? It would be good with a dev perspective on how they envision renegade to be played. Currently as it stands, most are only taking it for a shortbow swap to have a ranged condi wep and maybe using a spirit or two before having to swap legends while ignoring the costly Fskills. Especially when adding shortbow energy costs ontop on an already energy starved revenant.

 

Also, could we get the message when out of energy changed? It says out of proffession specific energy. Why? just say Revenant energy, muchly jarring with that large message popping constantly.

[messiah.1908]

> @lmaogg.7325 said:

> > @messiah.1908 said:

> > heroic command - cleanse 1 condition for each stack gain.

>

> As much as I want to see some proper renegade buffs..

> - Heroic Command is pretty spamable. 1 condi remove per stack will be literally kek. So no way.

>

> > i was the first who by POF cant you see i love this game so please consider some of the community suggestion to make rev great again

> How do you even know you are the _first_ ??

 

10 sec cd is not spammable. while this gonna be condi fiesta area you need condi cleanse. watch firbrand, weaver, and spellbreaker immunity to conditions. in 10 sec you will die in 3 sec with all the condi out there.

how i know i was the first ... not gonna tell you. :D

[Rym.1469]

That's it?

 

At this point, you could've added 15% condition damage modifier to Diabolic Inferno, renamed it to "Renegade" and we wouldn't notice a difference. 95% of my criticism adressed during beta still stands.

 

Moved the stunbreak at least, that's a plus.

[Knighthonor.4061]

Reminds me of HoT beta quick fixes. Never works out. But this time I will have some more hope.

[Madara.7435]

No changes to traits? Or just not listed?

Well... a SMALL step into the right direction with this spec. I guess we can say more when we tried it for few more hours.

[orisci.6527]

The changes I'd love for POF are: Don't let our warband take dmg or be CCed. Make Pain Absorption a pulsing skill or change it to something other than a boon so it won't be stripped with our high energy costs. With how easy it is to strip the resistance boon, we won't last in PvP.

[otto.5684]

Hmm, mace/ace and dumping all energy on soul cleave it is. Utilities problem is not the high energy cost is that there energy cost. Utilities functionality and usefulness at even the reduced cost cannot remotely compete with soul cleave. SB still lacks any evades or blocks and renegade lacks mobility.

 

What is the point of making changes if you guys are

Not going to make any changes. I really do not want to play another elite one skilll energy dump legend..

 

[MortalJohn.3590]

Like everyone said, good job on getting rid of the stun-break. Solid ability, it just broke because of how abilities react to each other mechanically. Hope the buffs make the heal feel more consistent. 5 energy doesn't sound like a lot but it's the difference of being able to make the decision of casting in the middle of a rotation or not having the ability to make the decision at all. Adding the sunbreak to Darkrazor and Stab is great for more utility options without making him feel too broken again. Adding a cap on the elite will make future balance easier, but hopefully it can be brought up in the future if its utilization isn't seen as being too potent.

 

I always despair when I read Revenant player feedback. More than any other profession there seems to be the largest divide in understanding between what Anet believes the profession is supposed to be, and what the players believe is should be. I just wish there was a stronger initiative in teaching players what the profession is, rather than saying "He's a jack of all trades, and he gets heavy armor!". What are Revenant's base profession strengths and weakness compared to other professions, where is he supposed to sit in the pecking order, and then evaluate does he actually fit that role as best as he possibly can.

 

Because as much fun as I've had maining him since the HOT release, and I will continue to main through POF. I always wonder if there's actually a plan for the revenant, or if he is the most designed without vision and because of that he is just a test bed for cool ideas that will never really link well.

[Buran.3796]

Not sure if the short bow's #5 change is a downgrade or an enhancement. The other ones doesn't matter to me since I have no plans to use Kalla.

[DiogoSilva.7089]

Hey, Irenio. Those changes look promising. I hope we can get similar energy reductions to base revenant as well. "Upkeep + AAing" playstyle is a issue that goes beyond this elite spec, and affects pretty much the entire profession outside of Herald (whose energy rules are different). I'm also not sure if the new energy costs on the F skills are enough. Revenant is way too tight already without them, and values like 35 and 25 are still pretty damn high for a profession that only has 50 energy each 9 seconds.

 

I believe that toning down energy costs on weapon skills is a step in the right direction, and hope to see it done to revenant's base weapons as well. Leave the higher costs to utilities and F skills. We desperately need more exciting skill rotations in PvE combat.

 

Also, no chill on Icerazor's Ire? People want that synergy with mallyx's traits! Besides, the name implies it should have chill. What are Anet's thoughts on this? Are you afraid that it would be too powerful?

[Kodiak.3281]

I like that the stunbreak was moved off of the Heal.

 

Disappointed that Spirits remain unchanged and are still able to be CC'd and therefore largely negated in most competitive and some PvE settings.

 

The energy thing on ShortBow (or any weapon really) is largely irrelevant since the core of Revenant gameplay is still auto attacking while toggling on channel abilities before swapping for the energy reset.

[SmirkDog.3160]

The only problem I really had with Renegade was that Sevenshot has ground targeting and is only effective if what you're trying to hit is exactly where all the arrows meet. Otherwise most of the shots miss and it's a total waste. Why can't it be based on your target and have them all hit?

[Burtnik.5218]

Thats all? Well good luck to all "renegades" then. Pve elite spec, failed concept with weak af shortbow that is completely useless.

[Bramley.1943]

I love these updates, just a quick design question.. Why does Icerazor's Ire do vulnerability damage and not chilling. The name ICE Razor... CHILLING damaged. It MUST of been planned at once stage- Was this overpowered so changed. Just wondering if there is a reason for this weird lack of skill names matching the skill? (I hope I explained this question okay)

[sleight.9638]

Has the Blood Fury bug been fixed, that prevented it from granting the Bleeding Duration Bonus?

[Fractured.3928]

Everyone all worried about the stats, and I'm just curious about the visual change. Wonder if it's just going to be a portal thing with some art in it.

 

If that is the case, I HIGHLY doubt it is target-able.