A quick tip to "ranged" classes in Fractals

[blambidy.3216]

I would say it would be nice to have a Druid or some type of support in the groups I end up in lol. We usually don’t have healers, so it’s be good and stay alive the whole way.

[Hyper Cutter.9376]

> @"Kheldorn.5123" said:

> I'd say it's failed game design when you create clearly ranged options for characters but make rest of the game unoptimal for the playstyle.

It absolutely is. GW2 gives you ranged options and then actively punishes people who like that play style, it's so idiotic.

[Sister Saxifrage.7361]

Even more egregious than the short-range boonsharing are the bosses that teleport to the farthest character. I let a deadeye into my Mai Trin group tonight. Ye gods.

 

Although, if ranged and melee were equal, why would anyone ever go melee?

[Faaris.8013]

> @"Sister Saxifrage.7361" said:

> Even more egregious than the short-range boonsharing are the bosses that teleport to the farthest character. I let a deadeye into my Mai Trin group tonight. Ye gods.

>

> Although, if ranged and melee were equal, why would anyone ever go melee?

 

In other games, people do that, even if they could stay at a decent range. I always prefered mobile ranged combat and kiting over standing there and facetanking, but many players actually like that, even if the ranged classes are stronger than melee classes.

 

I adjusted my playstyle for GW2.

[Blood Red Arachnid.2493]

> @"Hyper Cutter.9376" said:

> > @"Kheldorn.5123" said:

> > I'd say it's failed game design when you create clearly ranged options for characters but make rest of the game unoptimal for the playstyle.

> It absolutely is. GW2 gives you ranged options and then actively punishes people who like that play style, it's so idiotic.

 

Yet, I hear people complain about mechanics that punish meleers and encourage ranged weapon options. These opinions come from people being highly focused on a single part of the game. Truth is, different parts of the game encourage different ways of engaging.

 

The buff area problem exists mostly because we look at rangers as standing alone. That is, a person who wants to attack at range while everyone else fights at melee. This isn't always the case, because you can still stack at range. I.E., the Lupi-range stack tactic back when Arah was the endgame. Ultimately, ranged attacks are meant to be a "safer" option. Meleers have to deal with cleave, AoE attacks, Social Awkwardness + Poison Trails. Ranged attacks are capable of maintaining offense more consistently.

 

Personally, I have a hard time meleeing Mai Trin in 95. Her conditions are horrible, and the cannon fire with Horriks attacks make maintaining close proximity nigh impossible. Most of the fight is spent in a close-kiting formation with a ranged weapon until all my CC goes off cooldown. Bursting down doesn't happen, due to her shield. The best option here is to use ranged weapons.

[Hex.2579]

 

good tip but you should give it right there at that time instead of coming here. good tip is meant to be shared.

i lfg from zero to hero in fractals and it was a painful long journey. no one taught me nor i watched any vids at the time. i just learned the fights through boots and trials. so i notice most players who haven't got into raids are often at "range" and move around quite a lot cuz it's very simple, they're afraid of being hit. it's almost like their basic instinct. so it's understandable. as i main healer/chrono in raids, if i bring my chrono in fractals, i always have to tell the others the reason behind stay close to each other.

 

the only pro side from staying away from the group is only for one thing - taking aggro. esp when someone down and you need the rez. somebody else has the aggro has to go away or it may not be pretty.

[Wandering Mist.2973]

> @"Blood Red Arachnid.2493" said:

> > @"Hyper Cutter.9376" said:

> > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said:

> > > I'd say it's failed game design when you create clearly ranged options for characters but make rest of the game unoptimal for the playstyle.

> > It absolutely is. GW2 gives you ranged options and then actively punishes people who like that play style, it's so idiotic.

>

> Yet, I hear people complain about mechanics that punish meleers and encourage ranged weapon options. These opinions come from people being highly focused on a single part of the game. Truth is, different parts of the game encourage different ways of engaging.

>

> The buff area problem exists mostly because we look at rangers as standing alone. That is, a person who wants to attack at range while everyone else fights at melee. This isn't always the case, because you can still stack at range. I.E., the Lupi-range stack tactic back when Arah was the endgame. Ultimately, ranged attacks are meant to be a "safer" option. Meleers have to deal with cleave, AoE attacks, Social Awkwardness + Poison Trails. Ranged attacks are capable of maintaining offense more consistently.

>

> Personally, I have a hard time meleeing Mai Trin in 95. Her conditions are horrible, and the cannon fire with Horriks attacks make maintaining close proximity nigh impossible. Most of the fight is spent in a close-kiting formation with a ranged weapon until all my CC goes off cooldown. Bursting down doesn't happen, due to her shield. The best option here is to use ranged weapons.

 

Yes there are fights that favour ranged over melee, one of them being Mai Trin and another Being the final fight in the Aetherblade fractal. But these are few and far between. The problem with stacking in a ranged group is that most dps specs are either completely melee or utilize both melee and ranged weapons, swapping between them. This means if you tried to stay stacked at range you would either suffer a huge dps loss or have players constantly running in and out of melee range at random points, meaning they will probably miss out on buffs along the way.

[Faaris.8013]

> @"Wandering Mist.2973" said:

> Yes there are fights that favour ranged over melee, one of them being Mai Trin and another Being the final fight in the Aetherblade fractal.

 

Sorry but that is wrong. You are much better off meleeing Mai Trin and everything in Aetherblade than going ranged.

[Wandering Mist.2973]

> @"Faaris.8013" said:

> > @"Wandering Mist.2973" said:

> > Yes there are fights that favour ranged over melee, one of them being Mai Trin and another Being the final fight in the Aetherblade fractal.

>

> Sorry but that is wrong. You are much better off meleeing Mai Trin and everything in Aetherblade than going ranged.

 

I don't see why it is better to try to melee the golems in the final Aetherblade fight instead of staying at range and kiting them around the room. That makes very little sense to me.

[Linken.6345]

> @"Wandering Mist.2973" said:

> > @"Faaris.8013" said:

> > > @"Wandering Mist.2973" said:

> > > Yes there are fights that favour ranged over melee, one of them being Mai Trin and another Being the final fight in the Aetherblade fractal.

> >

> > Sorry but that is wrong. You are much better off meleeing Mai Trin and everything in Aetherblade than going ranged.

>

> I don't see why it is better to try to melee the golems in the final Aetherblade fight instead of staying at range and kiting them around the room. That makes very little sense to me.

 

if you melee then you kill them faster and they dont go into the electric walls and become immune.

[Talindra.4958]

I play druid too.

I usually say in chat when that happen

“pls come and hug the boss for buff and heal”

“also easier to res you when we are togetger”

“ if you are down you can blame me”

“dodge out and back in again immediately”

If that doesn't help... I will go because they don't need me .. I'm not good enough to heal scattered group :p

[FrostDraco.8306]

> @"Wandering Mist.2973" said:

> To be fair, if you have ever played a traditional mmorpg you are taught that if you are a ranged dps character, you stay at max range unless absolutely necessary, so I can see where that mentality would come from. Hell, even if you played GW1 you were taught to stay at max range because the AI would focus you in a heartbeat otherwise. I don't know a single other mmorpg that requires you to stack up your entire group as much as in GW2.

 

This is false. There are plenty of AI's in MMO's, and the most common one is for targeting on the highest threat which is calculated by either an aggro mechanic, or damage dealt. Coming from someone that solo's or low mans a lot of content in MMO's, if you only ever play with the tank class, chances are you will never truly understand the AI, because threat generation from those classes is usually high enough to not have aggro be an issue.

 

In some MMO's you actually have to intentionally drop your dps in order to not take aggro you can't handle. But then again, I take dps classes and solo/duo things so this isnt an issue for me. Staying at max range is only a problem when your skill or armor allows you to get swatted like a fly. And its been that way in WoW, and most F2p mmo's i've ever played.

[FrostDraco.8306]

> @"Hex.2579" said:

>

> good tip but you should give it right there at that time instead of coming here. good tip is meant to be shared.

> i lfg from zero to hero in fractals and it was a painful long journey. no one taught me nor i watched any vids at the time. i just learned the fights through boots and trials. so i notice most players who haven't got into raids are often at "range" and move around quite a lot cuz it's very simple, they're afraid of being hit. it's almost like their basic instinct. so it's understandable. as i main healer/chrono in raids, if i bring my chrono in fractals, i always have to tell the others the reason behind stay close to each other.

>

> the only pro side from staying away from the group is only for one thing - taking aggro. esp when someone down and you need the rez. somebody else has the aggro has to go away or it may not be pretty.

 

If your most basic instinct is being afraid of being hit, that just makes you weak as a person. Fight or flight works both ways.

 

But in an MMO you have a lot of ways to predict if you can take a hit or not if you have run the content before, so if you are still running after that, it's just a plain lack of awareness and cowardice.

[Hex.2579]

> @"FrostDraco.8306" said:

> If your most basic instinct is being afraid of being hit, that just makes you weak as a person. Fight or flight works both ways.

>

> But in an MMO you have a lot of ways to predict if you can take a hit or not if you have run the content before, so if you are still running after that, it's just a plain lack of awareness and cowardice.

 

reread my friend. i said most people who haven't raid before would often range cuz it's their basic instinct, they're afraid of being hit. it makes sense and totally understandable.

you go tell them, keyboard warrior.

[Faaris.8013]

> @"FrostDraco.8306" said:

> In some MMO's you actually have to intentionally drop your dps in order to not take aggro you can't handle.

 

That's actually the case sometimes in GW2. When I get aggro from open world bosses, I actually drop my dps to not get smashed. You can see it when you get the beam attack at the Tarnished Traitor for example, or when the Svanir champ follows you.

[Talindra.4958]

> @"Hex.2579" said:

> > @"FrostDraco.8306" said:

> > If your most basic instinct is being afraid of being hit, that just makes you weak as a person. Fight or flight works both ways.

> >

> > But in an MMO you have a lot of ways to predict if you can take a hit or not if you have run the content before, so if you are still running after that, it's just a plain lack of awareness and cowardice.

>

> reread my friend. i said most people who haven't raid before would often range cuz it's their basic instinct, they're afraid of being hit. it makes sense and totally understandable.

> you go tell them, keyboard warrior.

 

Yesterday or the day before.. I made a group for rec... chaos map. One of guy range a lot and not just that, he did his own stuff instead on focus on boss. So, what I did was, I ping him and I said. Pls stay with group. It didn't work .. then I said. Can we pls stay together.. it's easier for me to heal you and give you buff and if you die next to us we can res very fast too you won't get blame for dying.. the rest of the rec it was smooth and easy. Occasionally I put smilley faces here and there.. not a lot of talking .. and I always just make sure I say please and thank you. It works. I tried my best to be patience but i hv to admit sometimes I rage quit without bother to even say anything when I'm not in a very good mood that is. :P its easy to play druid in fractal xD you have the control of ppl hp.

[Hex.2579]

 

lol. i asked my raid buddies what they need me in fractals, while i main druid in raids, they said chrono. so i upgraded my chrono to get into fractals and it's easy to control people health too, not through healing but through blocking and important boons. so their health won't go down cuz the timing is right. but rip distort now. lol. i just reroll my necro so i can clean condis for others. really want to try a scourge support though, just for the meme xD

 

mmm. it works for the most part if people at least want to try what others suggest, and if you're patient and polite enough to not make it sound like you're bossing the whole group. but other times, you just have to quit when they don't want to listen or think they're always right. that's a big red light on communication. i'd leave if i were you too. lol

[Talindra.4958]

yes hex.. esp cm, its makes healing life so easy with a good chrono. :) people don't need to dodge at all.

[FrostDraco.8306]

> @"Hex.2579" said:

> > @"FrostDraco.8306" said:

> > If your most basic instinct is being afraid of being hit, that just makes you weak as a person. Fight or flight works both ways.

> >

> > But in an MMO you have a lot of ways to predict if you can take a hit or not if you have run the content before, so if you are still running after that, it's just a plain lack of awareness and cowardice.

>

> reread my friend. i said most people who haven't raid before would often range cuz it's their basic instinct, they're afraid of being hit. it makes sense and totally understandable.

> you go tell them, keyboard warrior.

 

It being understandable doesn't make it the right thing to do or a good decision.

 

You go defend em, white knight.

[IonoI.3956]

There are many pve encounters where staying at range is a good idea due to mechanics. and in easier things like fractals and bounties it doesn't really matter. it's not like we won't clear it if I just do what I feel like and don't rely on the supports to magically heal me to full. But in cases where it matters, I haven't noticed not stacking to be a big problem.

 

If anything I think healing should be nerfed to near pre-hot levels so it stops teaching people that it's ok to take damage. Pretty much all classes have survivability tools that are more fun than just stacking and mindlessly doing a rotation, so a dedicated healer shouldn't be needed.

 

But all the rest of the buffs that you listed like quickness and might are a much bigger topic...

[Hex.2579]

> @"FrostDraco.8306" said:

> It being understandable doesn't make it the right thing to do or a good decision.

>

> You go defend em, white knight.

 

yup. i always am defend them. just like i said. people range cuz they're not raid familiar type of person, or CM material. so they'd always be at range which they think it's the safest bet. and again it's understandable less someone has to tell them the "quick tip" instead of coming here and be a keyboard warrior.

who are you to say it's the right thing or a good decision? we don't have that rights. they have all the rights to play whatever the hell they want.

[Ebonfire.8270]

> @"FrostDraco.8306" said:

> > @"Wandering Mist.2973" said:

> > To be fair, if you have ever played a traditional mmorpg you are taught that if you are a ranged dps character, you stay at max range unless absolutely necessary, so I can see where that mentality would come from. Hell, even if you played GW1 you were taught to stay at max range because the AI would focus you in a heartbeat otherwise. I don't know a single other mmorpg that requires you to stack up your entire group as much as in GW2.

>

> This is false. There are plenty of AI's in MMO's, and the most common one is for targeting on the highest threat which is calculated by either an aggro mechanic, or damage dealt. Coming from someone that solo's or low mans a lot of content in MMO's, if you only ever play with the tank class, chances are you will never truly understand the AI, because threat generation from those classes is usually high enough to not have aggro be an issue.

>

> In some MMO's you actually have to intentionally drop your dps in order to not take aggro you can't handle. But then again, I take dps classes and solo/duo things so this isnt an issue for me. Staying at max range is only a problem when your skill or armor allows you to get swatted like a fly. And its been that way in WoW, and most F2p mmo's i've ever played.

 

It's not false, or not entirely, as MMOs with healer and ranged architypes were intentionally designed so they couldn't facetank anything. Take the standard WoW boss encounter: tanks goes in, establish threat, melee goes to the back, and ranged spreads out. Most bosses did cleave damage, and while melee classes might be able to absorb some of it, they would still camped behind the boss. No clothie in their right mind would stack in front of the boss because cleave damage would one-shot you. And a lot of the encounters had some sort of detonate player effect, so it was standard for ranged to be told to watch your spacing. Before reactional combat systems came about, all you had to worry about was line of sight and being within range.

[TamX.1870]

> @"Ebonfire.8270" said:

> It's not false, or not entirely, as MMOs with healer and ranged architypes were intentionally designed so they couldn't facetank anything. Take the standard WoW boss encounter: tanks goes in, establish threat, melee goes to the back, and ranged spreads out. Most bosses did cleave damage, and while melee classes might be able to absorb some of it, they would still camped behind the boss. No clothie in their right mind would stack in front of the boss because cleave damage would one-shot you. And a lot of the encounters had some sort of detonate player effect, so it was standard for ranged to be told to watch your spacing. Before reactional combat systems came about, all you had to worry about was line of sight and being within range.

 

This is true at least in all games inheriting principles of WoW fighting mechanism. In the game I was playing before, the first thing teached to new players on ranged toon was to keep distance to fights. The second lesson was that if you get aggro, you need to run to tank, and not start running around. In such games, boss mechanics can be extremely melee-unfriendly, favoring heavily ranged DPS.

 

One more reason why new players, at least me, want to keep range is that from distance you can have better view to battle ground you are not familiar yet. In the previous game I was playing, I used my ranged DPS or healer in instances I was not yet familiar, to observe the tanking locations, add spawning points, all sorts of tactical things the groups were used to beat the instance.

 

It has been hard way to learn away from those reactions honed and practised for years.

[Haleydawn.3764]

> @"Hex.2579" said:

>they have all the rights to play whatever the hell they want.

 

Oh I agree with this. But usually those players that stay range and subsequently die far away from everyone, blame everyone else for their demise. Because everyone else should have stuck on him.

It’s kind of a two way road, you have to accept that. If you join a casual group you are free to do as you wish, as there was no stipulation for tactics or what have you. If you join a group which is organised, like most t4 Fractals, and still think “Pew pew max range to win” you’ll annoy the other 4 players in the group, unless that is exactly what they want to do. If they run the meta comp, no, that’s probably not ok with them.

 

You (generalisation) can do what you want though, but don’t expect other players to be ok with it because ‘that’s how you want to play’. You’ll be better finding your own group on the lfg for like minded players, rather than asking efficient groups to just ‘be ok’ with you.

 

 

[Hex.2579]

> @"Haleydawn.3764" said:

> Oh I agree with this. But usually those players that stay range and subsequently die far away from everyone, blame everyone else for their demise. Because everyone else should have stuck on him.

> It’s kind of a two way road, you have to accept that. If you join a casual group you are free to do as you wish, as there was no stipulation for tactics or what have you. If you join a group which is organised, like most t4 Fractals, and still think “Pew pew max range to win” you’ll annoy the other 4 players in the group, unless that is exactly what they want to do. If they run the meta comp, no, that’s probably not ok with them.

>

> You (generalisation) can do what you want though, but don’t expect other players to be ok with it because ‘that’s how you want to play’. You’ll be better finding your own group on the lfg for like minded players, rather than asking efficient groups to just ‘be ok’ with you.

>

 

you're right. did you see my original post? lol. i said it's understandable for those to play range cuz they're not raid material or speed clears, nor have enough experience. it's their basic instinct to stay range cuz they're afraid of being hit. i know i was like that when i first started playing this game. everyone is like that until they know better.

but some keyboard warrior jumped in and called me a coward. like uh what sir? lol. i'm just saying in a 3rd view perspective. we all been there done that. so there's no need to be an ass about it.

 

the only time that sucks is if they play bad, and they blame others for their own mistakes, just like you said. time like that, i'd just leave and redone tat fractal in less than 8 mins with a new group.

i pug t4 dailies, then pugs CMs. i also run training runs and training CMs. so i meet a lot of different people, from all walks of life.

i don't like elitistism and i certainly don't like people who don't have a sympathy cuz you all once be like one of them. i just defend for the inexperienced. and if they don't wanna learn then it's them.