Elite Specializations and Weapon Choice

[joneirikb.7506]

One one hand I'd love to do this, like using shield and shortbow at the same time on Revenant, since I hate using the hammer for ranged weapon.

 

I'd also love to be able to use some of these weapons while leveling up, especially the Staff for thief looks like a weapon I'd love leveling with.

 

On the other hand I can't even imagine how many problems some of these weapons would make if crossing specializations. I'm sure there are a bunch of broken combos that would mess up pvp/wvw even further.

 

I guess an alternative would be: Make the specialization weapons into "core" weapons, then make them weaker (remove some effects, damage, other thematic bonuses/synergies), and change the first trait on each spez traitline to restore those bonuses.

 

Example: Thief staff would become a core thief weapon, then give -10% damage to the entire thing, and remove someo f the bonuses like half the duration of the weakness on skill2, don't remove immobilize on skill3, etc. Then change the first minor trait (the proficiency one) to restore all those. So you can play staff at full power with the right traitline.

 

Using this method they could probably remove/reduce things that are thematic to the spez for each weapon. Iirc like aclarity on mesmer shield and so on.

[Eloc Freidon.5692]

They should let the weapons stay unlocked considering they don't perform their best without their specific specs. It feels silly when you change your build and suddenly forget how to use a weapon.

[Artemisa.9013]

I support this idea. I would like my Chronomancer to use Axe & Shield but I guess that's impossible for the time being.

[Chyanne Waters.8719]

The way it could work is when the expansion is active the elite specialization should be locked to it. After the newest expansion comes out then it should be unlocked and become a regular weapon choice just like the core weapons that came with the profession. Now the elite specialization for that unlocked weapon will still work. Without it the weapon works the same way but without the extra power or any extra power would have to come from the original traits Because the elite specialization would have to stay unique.

 

[Phoenix the One.4071]

I was going to start a new topic asking for this!

I would go so far for core aswell!

Maybe they could restrict it, so only when the wheel was fully unlock, could you unlock the weapon beyond the specialization!

 

Build could be more diverse and interesting... I already dream of Longbow firebrand.. or core medi-longbow guard..

Sword tempest, or daredevil sniper...

and maybe people would still stick to the traitline with the weapon, since it usually have good synergy, but I still like the idea to open it up.

[Phoenix the One.4071]

> @"joneirikb.7506" said:

> One one hand I'd love to do this, like using shield and shortbow at the same time on Revenant, since I hate using the hammer for ranged weapon.

>

> I'd also love to be able to use some of these weapons while leveling up, especially the Staff for thief looks like a weapon I'd love leveling with.

>

> On the other hand I can't even imagine how many problems some of these weapons would make if crossing specializations. I'm sure there are a bunch of broken combos that would mess up pvp/wvw even further.

>

> I guess an alternative would be: Make the specialization weapons into "core" weapons, then make them weaker (remove some effects, damage, other thematic bonuses/synergies), and change the first trait on each spez traitline to restore those bonuses.

>

> Example: Thief staff would become a core thief weapon, then give -10% damage to the entire thing, and remove someo f the bonuses like half the duration of the weakness on skill2, don't remove immobilize on skill3, etc. Then change the first minor trait (the proficiency one) to restore all those. So you can play staff at full power with the right traitline.

>

> Using this method they could probably remove/reduce things that are thematic to the spez for each weapon. Iirc like aclarity on mesmer shield and so on.

 

I do not see the problem, since mostly the weapon is only stronger together with traits.. I would probably still look strong on paper, but in reality I think it would lose a lot of merit.

Daredevil empower staff, as dragonhunter empower longbow/range, and reaper for greatsword if one wish for that.

[GrubySzymek.1362]

It's not gonna happen.

[Ardid.7203]

> @"Phoenix the One.4071" said:

> > @"joneirikb.7506" said:

> > One one hand I'd love to do this, like using shield and shortbow at the same time on Revenant, since I hate using the hammer for ranged weapon.

> >

> > I'd also love to be able to use some of these weapons while leveling up, especially the Staff for thief looks like a weapon I'd love leveling with.

> >

> > On the other hand I can't even imagine how many problems some of these weapons would make if crossing specializations. I'm sure there are a bunch of broken combos that would mess up pvp/wvw even further.

> >

> > I guess an alternative would be: Make the specialization weapons into "core" weapons, then make them weaker (remove some effects, damage, other thematic bonuses/synergies), and change the first trait on each spez traitline to restore those bonuses.

> >

> > Example: Thief staff would become a core thief weapon, then give -10% damage to the entire thing, and remove someo f the bonuses like half the duration of the weakness on skill2, don't remove immobilize on skill3, etc. Then change the first minor trait (the proficiency one) to restore all those. So you can play staff at full power with the right traitline.

> >

> > Using this method they could probably remove/reduce things that are thematic to the spez for each weapon. Iirc like aclarity on mesmer shield and so on.

>

> I do not see the problem, since mostly the weapon is only stronger together with traits.. I would probably still look strong on paper, but in reality I think it would lose a lot of merit.

> Daredevil empower staff, as dragonhunter empower longbow/range, and reaper for greatsword if one wish for that.

 

Holosmith with Hammer: Photon Forge for offense, Hammer for protection and might. Greater DPS + extra sustain = Unbalanced build.

And I don't think this is a very good example, I'm sure there are much more extreme ones.

[Crossaber.8934]

You will never know when a new elite trait hit, the other elite weapon may go beyond broken with the new elite traitline.

 

It will be broken scourge with GS pull, perma dodge mirage with shield, reflect holosmith with hammer, vault deadeye...

 

So no, the idea is to lock the weapon with a elite spec, and we should stick to it.

[Sarrs.4831]

You'd have to say goodbye to Ele ever seeing a new MH/2H weapon in an ES.

 

I'd rather they just give Engi a few weapons so that they can get offhand weapons in elite specs.

[Phoenix the One.4071]

> @"Crossaber.8934" said:

> You will never know when a new elite trait hit, the other elite weapon may go beyond broken with the new elite traitline.

>

> It will be broken scourge with GS pull, perma dodge mirage with shield, reflect holosmith with hammer, vault deadeye...

>

> So no, the idea is to lock the weapon with a elite spec, and we should stick to it.

 

I like to think beyond the box :)

And still think people are giving the weapons too mich credit by themselves.

It is like a build, on paper grossly OP, but ingame you get your ass handle because players do not act according to what the build dictate.

 

I will still keep an open mind for this possibility since I can see how this would shine.

And still make the spec. Trait line feeling special.

 

And what I know (which is a bit limited at this point) both Chrono and Mirage shine through their traits, so yeah they get a shield.. a shield with upto 30 sec CD on the lowest CD.

And we are purely talking weapons, not dual spec. Traitlines.

[zealex.9410]

would be hard to balance. Besides i like that you have to commit to one choice to get the value, it keeps classes from ending up being all the same thing with a diff coat of paint.

[Crossaber.8934]

> @"Phoenix the One.4071" said:

> > @"Crossaber.8934" said:

> > You will never know when a new elite trait hit, the other elite weapon may go beyond broken with the new elite traitline.

> >

> > It will be broken scourge with GS pull, perma dodge mirage with shield, reflect holosmith with hammer, vault deadeye...

> >

> > So no, the idea is to lock the weapon with a elite spec, and we should stick to it.

>

> I like to think beyond the box :)

> And still think people are giving the weapons too mich credit by themselves.

> It is like a build, on paper grossly OP, but ingame you get your kitten handle because players do not act according to what the build dictate.

>

> I will still keep an open mind for this possibility since I can see how this would shine.

> And still make the spec. Trait line feeling special.

>

> And what I know (which is a bit limited at this point) both Chrono and Mirage shine through their traits, so yeah they get a shield.. a shield with upto 30 sec CD on the lowest CD.

> And we are purely talking weapons, not dual spec. Traitlines.

 

Players are much more creative than dev in creation of build effectiveness. I rather we restrict some possibilities when creating add on to existing class. It could much be easier to create broken spec than to balance it out.

 

For example mirage with shield, you think 30sec CD is bad? But the extra CC and block add to the high evade uptime will create unkillable mirage. Well mirage with skill already hard to kill even without shield. I rather not giving mirage chrono shield ever. This stays true for many other elite spec and thier weapon, many of the weapon is good without trait.

[Phoenix the One.4071]

> @"Crossaber.8934" said:

> > @"Phoenix the One.4071" said:

> > > @"Crossaber.8934" said:

> > > You will never know when a new elite trait hit, the other elite weapon may go beyond broken with the new elite traitline.

> > >

> > > It will be broken scourge with GS pull, perma dodge mirage with shield, reflect holosmith with hammer, vault deadeye...

> > >

> > > So no, the idea is to lock the weapon with a elite spec, and we should stick to it.

> >

> > I like to think beyond the box :)

> > And still think people are giving the weapons too mich credit by themselves.

> > It is like a build, on paper grossly OP, but ingame you get your kitten handle because players do not act according to what the build dictate.

> >

> > I will still keep an open mind for this possibility since I can see how this would shine.

> > And still make the spec. Trait line feeling special.

> >

> > And what I know (which is a bit limited at this point) both Chrono and Mirage shine through their traits, so yeah they get a shield.. a shield with upto 30 sec CD on the lowest CD.

> > And we are purely talking weapons, not dual spec. Traitlines.

>

> Players are much more creative than dev in creation of build effectiveness. I rather we restrict some possibilities when creating add on to existing class. It could much be easier to create broken spec than to balance it out.

>

> For example mirage with shield, you think 30sec CD is bad? But the extra CC and block add to the high evade uptime will create unkillable mirage. Well mirage with skill already hard to kill even without shield. I rather not giving mirage chrono shield ever. This stays true for many other elite spec and thier weapon, many of the weapon is good without trait.

 

True, we are also more build-testers.

 

Well when they are evading or blocking, they often lower their killpotential.

 

They could change it for pvp.

Someone even suggested spvp to be pure core.

For lets be honest wvw was never about balance :)

[Eloc Freidon.5692]

Yes. I would like it that once you complete an Elite spec you get the weapon unlocked as a whole. There is no build imbalance when you are using the weapon outside the elite specs since the elite itself makes the most use of the weapon. Otherwise the more elite specs you come out with the more wasted the assets become. Let all classes use all weapons eventually.

[Ardid.7203]

Sorry, but all you are doing is lobbying for more problems. Anet barely can balance what they already have, and they specifically designed the new elites and weapons with easier balance in mind. Adding more variables would of course be fun an great, IF properly balanced. If not... just more power-creep, more OP combos, less build diversity, more meta mentality, more elitism, more problems.

[Eloc Freidon.5692]

And none of that is a problem if they just let us use all weapons unlocked, because you don't get maximum weapon potential without the related spec.