ArenaNet policy on fan-made merchandise?

[LivingTravesty.8137]

I'm sure this is a question that crops up regularly but I'm having trouble finding a concrete answer. Basically I've been toying with the idea of doing a set of enamel pins inspired by GW2 mounts, but I'm apprehensive about trying to make money off what would essentially be non-licensed merchandise. I know the creative partner program promotes plenty of artists who sell custom GW2-themed _artwork_ so clearly there's some precedent for it, but I was wondering if anyone has any info (or can at least point me in the right direction to find it myself) regarding actual manufactured products.

[STIHL.2489]

All images are Trademarked by Anet and NCsoft, if you want to make a product based on their game, contact their licencing office. There is a "fair use" clause. but.. that can be it's own trip and legal jumps. If you are going to try and make a production run, better to just call them directly and ask permission. I know,, I know.. some people will say its better to ask forgiveness, but last I looked, cooperate lawyers are not into that forgiveness business.

[Illconceived Was Na.9781]

> @"STIHL.2489" said:

> All images are Trademarked by Anet and NCsoft, if you want to make a product based on their game, contact their licencing office. There is a "fair use" clause. but.. that can be it's own trip and legal jumps. If you are going to try and make a production run, better to just call them directly and ask permission. I know,, I know.. some people will say its better to ask forgiveness, but last I looked, cooperate lawyers are not into that forgiveness business.

 

Well said (except, you might mean "corporate lawyers" — I'm sure "cooperate lawyers" would be easier to work with ;)).

 

Another way of putting it is:

* You won't be allowed to sell, trade, or barter GW2-themed items.

* If you want to make something for yourself and friends, knock yourself out. (e.g. people commission portraits of their toons all the time, but only for in-game gold).

[Fundor.2098]

https://www.forfansbyfans.com/feature/guild-wars-2-fan-forge-info.html

 

You should take a look at the Fan Forge! :)

[akenoyuki.8210]

You might be looking for this

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/legal/guild-wars-2-content-terms-of-use/

 

Basically, what's written is:

 

> **May I use your art or images for items, such as clothing, toys, or other game-related goods?**

>

> Our art assets-be they concept art, in-game screenshots, verbal content, or renders-are all copyrighted materials. Their use is **strictly prohibited unless approved in advance and in writing by ArenaNet**. Specific questions concerning the appropriate use of our content should be directed to community@arena.net.

[Gaile Gray.6029]

> @"akenoyuki.8210" said:

> You might be looking for this

> https://www.guildwars2.com/en/legal/guild-wars-2-content-terms-of-use/

>

> Basically, what's written is:

>

> > **May I use your art or images for items, such as clothing, toys, or other game-related goods?**

> >

> > Our art assets-be they concept art, in-game screenshots, verbal content, or renders-are all copyrighted materials. Their use is **strictly prohibited unless approved in advance and in writing by ArenaNet**. Specific questions concerning the appropriate use of our content should be directed to community@arena.net.

 

It should be made clear that we do not have a process for approving individual projects. The use of our assets, therefore, needs to come about in the creation of a single, personal, non-profit use (such as the creation of a gift for a friend) or through the Fan Forge at For Fan By Fans (formerly WeLoveFine): https://www.forfansbyfans.com/feature/guild-wars-2-fan-forge-info.html

[Gaile Gray.6029]

> @"STIHL.2489" said:

> All images are Trademarked by Anet and NCsoft, if you want to make a product based on their game, contact their licencing office. There is a "fair use" clause. but.. that can be it's own trip and legal jumps. If you are going to try and make a production run, better to just call them directly and ask permission. I know,, I know.. some people will say its better to ask forgiveness, but last I looked, cooperate lawyers are not into that forgiveness business.

 

I don't see how Fair Use applies at all, when the very definition is, "Fair Use (in US copyright law) the doctrine that brief excerpts of copyright material may, under certain circumstances, be quoted verbatim for purposes such as criticism, news reporting, teaching, and research, without the need for permission from or payment to the copyright holder." Manufacturing items isn't quoting, verbatim or otherwise. Selling items is not any of these things: "criticism, news reporting, teaching, [or] research."

 

I am not an attorney, but I've worked with attorneys for many years, and I can tell you that the average person's comprehension of Fair Use is usually very inaccurate and in many cases believing that Fair Use is something that it is not leads to a serious violation of copyright law.

 

Here's further reading: https://www.copyright.gov/title17/92chap1.html#107 In it you will see the allowed purposes, "...the fair use of a copyrighted work, including such use by reproduction in copies or phonorecords or by any other means specified by that section, for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching (including multiple copies for classroom use), scholarship, or research..." Nothing there covers making things and selling items, in **any** context.

 

I don't want to sound overly formal, but in fact my work was used in violation of copyright some years ago (before I was at ArenaNet, actually), and I took a little time to research the matter then. Having done that, I do like to set the record straight when I have the opportunity. As you can see. :D

[STIHL.2489]

> @"Gaile Gray.6029" said:

> > @"STIHL.2489" said:

> > All images are Trademarked by Anet and NCsoft, if you want to make a product based on their game, contact their licencing office. There is a "fair use" clause. but.. that can be it's own trip and legal jumps. If you are going to try and make a production run, better to just call them directly and ask permission. I know,, I know.. some people will say its better to ask forgiveness, but last I looked, cooperate lawyers are not into that forgiveness business.

>

> I don't see how Fair Use applies at all, when the very definition is, "Fair Use (in US copyright law) the doctrine that brief excerpts of copyright material may, under certain circumstances, be quoted verbatim for purposes such as criticism, news reporting, teaching, and research, without the need for permission from or payment to the copyright holder." Manufacturing items isn't quoting, verbatim or otherwise. Selling items is not any of these things: "criticism, news reporting, teaching, [or] research."

>

> I am not an attorney, but I've worked with attorneys for many years, and I can tell you that the average person's comprehension of Fair Use is usually very inaccurate and in many cases believing that Fair Use is something that it is not leads to a serious violation of copyright law.

>

> Here's further reading: https://www.copyright.gov/title17/92chap1.html#107 In it you will see the allowed purposes, "...the fair use of a copyrighted work, including such use by reproduction in copies or phonorecords or by any other means specified by that section, for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching (including multiple copies for classroom use), scholarship, or research..." Nothing there covers making things and selling items, in **any** context.

>

> I don't want to sound overly formal, but in fact my work was used in violation of copyright some years ago (before I was at ArenaNet, actually), and I took a little time to research the matter then. Having done that, I do like to set the record straight when I have the opportunity. As you can see. :D

 

I have made it clear to the OP, that what they want to do is not protected under "fair use"

[mercury ranique.2170]

The question is when does a fan project turns into a business. In the case of fan art. This is something that fans make as an artist. The ‘artist’ part is very important. They do not do it with the goal of making money or getting rich. Money is just a secondary goal.

 

So if you make some of these pins and craft them by hand and sell them, you are ok. If you go and mass produce them and sell 1000 per week, we have a business. There isn’t an exact line in between those. If you seek such a line, chances are you allready want to cross it.

[Wanze.8410]

> @"Gaile Gray.6029" said:

> > @"akenoyuki.8210" said:

> > You might be looking for this

> > https://www.guildwars2.com/en/legal/guild-wars-2-content-terms-of-use/

> >

> > Basically, what's written is:

> >

> > > **May I use your art or images for items, such as clothing, toys, or other game-related goods?**

> > >

> > > Our art assets-be they concept art, in-game screenshots, verbal content, or renders-are all copyrighted materials. Their use is **strictly prohibited unless approved in advance and in writing by ArenaNet**. Specific questions concerning the appropriate use of our content should be directed to community@arena.net.

>

> It should be made clear that we do not have a process for approving individual projects. The use of our assets, therefore, needs to come about in the creation of a single, personal, non-profit use (such as the creation of a gift for a friend) or through the Fan Forge at For Fan By Fans (formerly WeLoveFine): https://www.forfansbyfans.com/feature/guild-wars-2-fan-forge-info.html

 

How about unique designs/items inspired by GW2 that are hard to recreate, for example sculptures, weapons or cosplay costumes?

 

I guess commissioned painted artwork from players for players falls in the same category.

 

Is it illegal to take commission fees for those or do we have to get permission first?

[LivingTravesty.8137]

Thanks everyone for weighing in, and @"Gaile Gray.6029" thanks for the definitive answer! I was actually referred to the fan forge by a couple people outside the forums as well, and it seems like my safest bet for potentially getting them made without stepping on any toes, so I'll definitely look into that more seriously!

[Belorn.2659]

> @"Gaile Gray.6029" said:

> > @"STIHL.2489" said:

> > All images are Trademarked by Anet and NCsoft, if you want to make a product based on their game, contact their licencing office. There is a "fair use" clause. but.. that can be it's own trip and legal jumps. If you are going to try and make a production run, better to just call them directly and ask permission. I know,, I know.. some people will say its better to ask forgiveness, but last I looked, cooperate lawyers are not into that forgiveness business.

>

> I don't see how Fair Use applies at all, when the very definition is, "Fair Use (in US copyright law) the doctrine that brief excerpts of copyright material may, under certain circumstances, be quoted verbatim for purposes such as criticism, news reporting, teaching, and research, without the need for permission from or payment to the copyright holder." Manufacturing items isn't quoting, verbatim or otherwise. Selling items is not any of these things: "criticism, news reporting, teaching, [or] research."

> ...

 

It should be noted that Manufacturing and selling pins as fan art is neither of those things. Criticism/news reporting however can be made into items (such as CD's) and then sold, so commercialism isn't a decisive factor. Law get interpreted and cases resolved with the context which they reside in.

 

From what I have read in supreme court cases, products that compete with the copyright owners own products tend to end badly for the accused. I am pretty sure that there already exist gw2 themed merchandise by authorized manufacturers, so pins would be very risky. I would predict that it would be much harder case in regard to commissioned painted artwork of player characters, while cosplay costume would sit rather in the middle of the grey zone. Judges tend to take into consideration if there is market standards and commissioned cosplay costume has a rather established history of being tolerated so long they don't compete with existing "official" costumes.

 

Fair use is a grey zone with a long history of cases, some with even contradict each other (in particular with the game industry). Wanze.8410 question is unlikely to get definitive answer unless someone brings it to the courts.

[Cobrakon.3108]

I hate some of the copyright laws, but if your going to outright sell something as "Guildwars 2" merchandise without some sort of contract then your easily setting yourself up to be sued.

 

A workaround might be to offer a generic product that can be assembled on the consumers end to look like gw2 items. You'd have to research it and figure out how to dodge copyright, though it might be possible. If it can be done with gun laws in the United States, then I Imagine it can be done with copyright laws. (I.E. you can get a fully working gun without all the red tape if u buy it in parts online and do some of the construction yourself. )

 

You might want to also research Chinese Knockoffs and see how exactly they pull this kinda stuff off and the legalities of such a business.

[Gaile Gray.6029]

> @"mercury ranique.2170" said:

> The question is when does a fan project turns into a business. In the case of fan art. This is something that fans make as an artist. The ‘artist’ part is very important. They do not do it with the goal of making money or getting rich. Money is just a secondary goal.

>

> So if you make some of these pins and craft them by hand and sell them, you are ok. If you go and mass produce them and sell 1000 per week, we have a business. There isn’t an exact line in between those. If you seek such a line, chances are you allready want to cross it.

 

While I know you want to help, in fact you're mistaken in the reassurances you are trying to make. How something is made -- by hand, by machine, 100 or 100,000 -- is not the point. As you will see if you read the Content Terms of Use, **Making money from products based on our IP is prohibited by copyright law.** As I wrote previously, the way to get this product made, complete with a commission for the person who submitted the concept, is to work with For Fan by Fans.

 

Fortunately, LivingTravesty (the OP of this thread) is going to look into that, which may end up being a complete win/win for everyone involved. :)

 

> @"LivingTravesty.8137" said:

> Thanks everyone for weighing in, and @"Gaile Gray.6029" thanks for the definitive answer! I was actually referred to the fan forge by a couple people outside the forums as well, and it seems like my safest bet for potentially getting them made without stepping on any toes, so I'll definitely look into that more seriously!

 

That's marvelous! I'm looking forward to seeing what you and For Fan by Fans come up with!

 

[arenta.2953]

> @"Gaile Gray.6029" said:

> > @"mercury ranique.2170" said:

> > The question is when does a fan project turns into a business. In the case of fan art. This is something that fans make as an artist. The ‘artist’ part is very important. They do not do it with the goal of making money or getting rich. Money is just a secondary goal.

> >

> > So if you make some of these pins and craft them by hand and sell them, you are ok. If you go and mass produce them and sell 1000 per week, we have a business. There isn’t an exact line in between those. If you seek such a line, chances are you allready want to cross it.

>

> While I know you want to help, in fact you're mistaken in the reassurances you are trying to make. How something is made -- by hand, by machine, 100 or 100,000 -- is not the point. As you will see if you read the Content Terms of Use, **Making money from products based on our IP is prohibited by copyright law.** As I wrote previously, the way to get this product made, complete with a commission for the person who submitted the concept, is to work with For Fan by Fans.

>

> Fortunately, LivingTravesty (the OP of this thread) is going to look into that, which may end up being a complete win/win for everyone involved. :)

>

> > @"LivingTravesty.8137" said:

> > Thanks everyone for weighing in, and @"Gaile Gray.6029" thanks for the definitive answer! I was actually referred to the fan forge by a couple people outside the forums as well, and it seems like my safest bet for potentially getting them made without stepping on any toes, so I'll definitely look into that more seriously!

>

> That's marvelous! I'm looking forward to seeing what you and For Fan by Fans come up with!

>

 

" Making money from products based on our IP is prohibited by copyright law"

 

....fanart commissions are fine though right? little confused cause "products" based on "GW2" (so Asura, their outfits, etc), done for commission.....

[Neural.1824]

> @"arenta.2953" said:

> > @"Gaile Gray.6029" said:

> > > @"mercury ranique.2170" said:

> > > The question is when does a fan project turns into a business. In the case of fan art. This is something that fans make as an artist. The ‘artist’ part is very important. They do not do it with the goal of making money or getting rich. Money is just a secondary goal.

> > >

> > > So if you make some of these pins and craft them by hand and sell them, you are ok. If you go and mass produce them and sell 1000 per week, we have a business. There isn’t an exact line in between those. If you seek such a line, chances are you allready want to cross it.

> >

> > While I know you want to help, in fact you're mistaken in the reassurances you are trying to make. How something is made -- by hand, by machine, 100 or 100,000 -- is not the point. As you will see if you read the Content Terms of Use, **Making money from products based on our IP is prohibited by copyright law.** As I wrote previously, the way to get this product made, complete with a commission for the person who submitted the concept, is to work with For Fan by Fans.

> >

> > Fortunately, LivingTravesty (the OP of this thread) is going to look into that, which may end up being a complete win/win for everyone involved. :)

> >

> > > @"LivingTravesty.8137" said:

> > > Thanks everyone for weighing in, and @"Gaile Gray.6029" thanks for the definitive answer! I was actually referred to the fan forge by a couple people outside the forums as well, and it seems like my safest bet for potentially getting them made without stepping on any toes, so I'll definitely look into that more seriously!

> >

> > That's marvelous! I'm looking forward to seeing what you and For Fan by Fans come up with!

> >

>

> " Making money from products based on our IP is prohibited by copyright law"

>

> ....fanart commissions are fine though right? little confused cause "products" based on "GW2" (so Asura, their outfits, etc), done for commission.....

 

You can not require any other party to give you compensation (monetary or otherwise) for creation, use, or distribution of Intellectual Property that is copyrighted by someone other than yourself (edit: the assumption is made here that you have not received written permission from said IP owner to do so)

And unless there is legal precedent, you can also assume that it is not legal to create "fan art" or other art based on Intellectual Property owned by someone else even if your intent is only to market your creative skills by having such an item in your portfolio (even if it is never sold or given away).

[arenta.2953]

> @"Neural.1824" said:

> > @"arenta.2953" said:

> > > @"Gaile Gray.6029" said:

> > > > @"mercury ranique.2170" said:

> > > > The question is when does a fan project turns into a business. In the case of fan art. This is something that fans make as an artist. The ‘artist’ part is very important. They do not do it with the goal of making money or getting rich. Money is just a secondary goal.

> > > >

> > > > So if you make some of these pins and craft them by hand and sell them, you are ok. If you go and mass produce them and sell 1000 per week, we have a business. There isn’t an exact line in between those. If you seek such a line, chances are you allready want to cross it.

> > >

> > > While I know you want to help, in fact you're mistaken in the reassurances you are trying to make. How something is made -- by hand, by machine, 100 or 100,000 -- is not the point. As you will see if you read the Content Terms of Use, **Making money from products based on our IP is prohibited by copyright law.** As I wrote previously, the way to get this product made, complete with a commission for the person who submitted the concept, is to work with For Fan by Fans.

> > >

> > > Fortunately, LivingTravesty (the OP of this thread) is going to look into that, which may end up being a complete win/win for everyone involved. :)

> > >

> > > > @"LivingTravesty.8137" said:

> > > > Thanks everyone for weighing in, and @"Gaile Gray.6029" thanks for the definitive answer! I was actually referred to the fan forge by a couple people outside the forums as well, and it seems like my safest bet for potentially getting them made without stepping on any toes, so I'll definitely look into that more seriously!

> > >

> > > That's marvelous! I'm looking forward to seeing what you and For Fan by Fans come up with!

> > >

> >

> > " Making money from products based on our IP is prohibited by copyright law"

> >

> > ....fanart commissions are fine though right? little confused cause "products" based on "GW2" (so Asura, their outfits, etc), done for commission.....

>

> You can not require any other party to give you compensation (monetary or otherwise) for creation, use, or distribution of Intellectual Property that is copyrighted by someone other than yourself.

> And unless there is legal precedent, you can also assume that it is not legal to create "fan art" or other art based on Intellectual Property owned by someone else even if your intent is only to market your creative skills by having such an item in your portfolio (even if it is never sold or given away).

 

......that sucks =/

 

hopefully they don't enforce that as i like getting commissions of my character. heck tumblr would be 1/5 the size it is now if that was enforced for all IPs...

[mercury ranique.2170]

> @"Gaile Gray.6029" said:

> > @"mercury ranique.2170" said:

> > The question is when does a fan project turns into a business. In the case of fan art. This is something that fans make as an artist. The ‘artist’ part is very important. They do not do it with the goal of making money or getting rich. Money is just a secondary goal.

> >

> > So if you make some of these pins and craft them by hand and sell them, you are ok. If you go and mass produce them and sell 1000 per week, we have a business. There isn’t an exact line in between those. If you seek such a line, chances are you allready want to cross it.

>

> While I know you want to help, in fact you're mistaken in the reassurances you are trying to make. How something is made -- by hand, by machine, 100 or 100,000 -- is not the point. As you will see if you read the Content Terms of Use, **Making money from products based on our IP is prohibited by copyright law.** As I wrote previously, the way to get this product made, complete with a commission for the person who submitted the concept, is to work with For Fan by Fans.

>

> Fortunately, LivingTravesty (the OP of this thread) is going to look into that, which may end up being a complete win/win for everyone involved. :)

>

> > @"LivingTravesty.8137" said:

> > Thanks everyone for weighing in, and @"Gaile Gray.6029" thanks for the definitive answer! I was actually referred to the fan forge by a couple people outside the forums as well, and it seems like my safest bet for potentially getting them made without stepping on any toes, so I'll definitely look into that more seriously!

>

> That's marvelous! I'm looking forward to seeing what you and For Fan by Fans come up with!

>

 

> @"Gaile Gray.6029" said:

> > @"mercury ranique.2170" said:

> > The question is when does a fan project turns into a business. In the case of fan art. This is something that fans make as an artist. The ‘artist’ part is very important. They do not do it with the goal of making money or getting rich. Money is just a secondary goal.

> >

> > So if you make some of these pins and craft them by hand and sell them, you are ok. If you go and mass produce them and sell 1000 per week, we have a business. There isn’t an exact line in between those. If you seek such a line, chances are you allready want to cross it.

>

> While I know you want to help, in fact you're mistaken in the reassurances you are trying to make. How something is made -- by hand, by machine, 100 or 100,000 -- is not the point. As you will see if you read the Content Terms of Use, **Making money from products based on our IP is prohibited by copyright law.** As I wrote previously, the way to get this product made, complete with a commission for the person who submitted the concept, is to work with For Fan by Fans.

>

> Fortunately, LivingTravesty (the OP of this thread) is going to look into that, which may end up being a complete win/win for everyone involved. :)

>

> > @"LivingTravesty.8137" said:

> > Thanks everyone for weighing in, and @"Gaile Gray.6029" thanks for the definitive answer! I was actually referred to the fan forge by a couple people outside the forums as well, and it seems like my safest bet for potentially getting them made without stepping on any toes, so I'll definitely look into that more seriously!

>

> That's marvelous! I'm looking forward to seeing what you and For Fan by Fans come up with!

>

 

Sorry Gaile, if you read that amount of numbers matter I failed to get my point across. I wanted actually to explain the opposite. I took a point that is on the safe side and a point that is on the wrong side. I actually tried to explain that there is not a line in between them you can cross. It is impossible (even for you representing the owner of the copyright) to tell exactly what is ok and what is not ok. So the bottom line of my post is that when you doubt if you can get away with it (looking for this non existing line) you are allready across.

 

You are off course fully correct that for fans by fans is an awesome platform and really suits the needs of the OP

[Gaile Gray.6029]

It's a good question, Arenta. Commissions, where someone asks an artist to create a piece of art based on their character, are perceived differently. They'd fall into that one-time personal use area, where it's one player commissioning one artist to make the single piece.

[arenta.2953]

> @"Gaile Gray.6029" said:

> It's a good question, Arenta. Commissions, where someone asks an artist to create a piece of art based on their character, are perceived differently. They'd fall into that one-time personal use area, where it's one player commissioning one artist to make the single piece.

 

perfect =D

 

thanks!

 

now to find an artist <.< *checks lobster trap with fresh version of MS paint in it*

 

...i might need new bait

[Neural.1824]

> @"arenta.2953" said:

> > @"Neural.1824" said:

> >

> > You can not require any other party to give you compensation (monetary or otherwise) for creation, use, or distribution of Intellectual Property that is copyrighted by someone other than yourself.

> > And unless there is legal precedent, you can also assume that it is not legal to create "fan art" or other art based on Intellectual Property owned by someone else even if your intent is only to market your creative skills by having such an item in your portfolio (even if it is never sold or given away).

>

> ......that sucks =/

>

> hopefully they don't enforce that as i like getting commissions of my character. heck tumblr would be 1/5 the size it is now if that was enforced for all IPs...

 

tl;dr: Always assume that law falls on the side of the IP holder, and get actual legal advice if you think your situation is an exception.

 

I think commissions are the briar patch in all this, and a lot of whether or not it is allowable is completely up to the owners of the IP (because they own the IP).

 

I doubt, for example, that a tattoo artist who is approached by guild wars 2 player for a tattoo of the persons favorite class icon is going to get in trouble with Arenanet, BUT, it *is* Arenanets prerogative to take action against the individual if they so choose, and they have the right to do so. The whole "briar patch" part is up to the lawyers to weigh whether or not the artist should be told to stop. Example: Tattoo artist is approached by a rock star who wants the Scourge icon tattooed on his right arm. He pays the guy $1000 for it, and walks away happy. The tattoo artist makes $1000, and goes back to doing dragons, girls, beer mugs, etc. and his normal daily work.

Six moths later, said rock star is on the cover of Rolling Stone in a "powerful" pose for a "how gaming changed my life" article, showing his right arm and the Scourge tattoo.

Does Anet track down and pounce on the tattoo artist? They *can*. But *should* they? Again, that's up to the legal team, but the marketing value of that image on Rolling Stone along with an article that reflects well on their flagship product *might* make them decide to let it slide. It's still their choice though.

 

The reason fan art is such a huge gray area is because there is no hard line regarding what an IP holder is required to do with their IP. They have rights to their intellectual property and can do with it as they choose. They can choose to let an artist get so rich off of commissions that he can retire, or they can choose to send a cease and desist to an artist who is trying to feed a starving family, and they can choose to do those actions with two different people at the same time if they want. The IP is theirs, and the law is there to protect that IP.

 

Much as I don't like the way they choose to run their game, I stand on their side regarding Intellectual Property. It is best to simply assume, as an artist, that copyright law is set in stone in favor of the copyright holder, and contact them to formally request the use of their IP.