Astralporing.1957 Posted January 26, 2018 Share Posted January 26, 2018 > @"Malediktus.9250" said: > Mai Trin lvl 50 was definitely harder than Mai Trin t4 now. Feels like she hits like a wet noodle compared to the old days despite being about 50 levels higher She's not "50 levels higher", the conversion rate was "new level"="old level x 2". And she was ridiculously easy if you had one bunker build keeping her aggro. I could easily facetank her on a core guardian bunker build, leaving other players to do their stuff. The only problem was if someone died during the cannonade phase, because ressing was a pain. Before the last change, i just don't remember anyone ever dying outside of cannonade, unless they didn't have AR or were ressing. And, as someone mentioned, that was on core classes which were weaker than what we have now. > @"Malediktus.9250" said: > Cant compare the new fractals because they did not exist back then, but I they are probably not harder than the lvl 50 in the old days. The challenge modes maybe like an imaginary lvl 60. Most of individual fractals that existed then are about the same now, with one (swamp) being significantly harder. And new fractals are more difficult than them. Nightmare and Shattered are definitely way beyond the difficulty level we've had once. Oasis most probably too. And that's without even considering CMs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReaverKane.7598 Posted January 26, 2018 Share Posted January 26, 2018 To be fair... IF neither TO nor SO had **so many god-damn cut-scenes and dialogue** they'd be in line with other fractals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malediktus.9250 Posted January 26, 2018 Share Posted January 26, 2018 > @"FrizzFreston.5290" said: > > @"Malediktus.9250" said: > > Mai Trin lvl 50 was definitely harder than Mai Trin t4 now. Feels like she hits like a wet noodle compared to the old days despite being about 50 levels higher > > Cant compare the new fractals because they did not exist back then, but I they are probably not harder than the lvl 50 in the old days. The challenge modes maybe like an imaginary lvl 60. > > That has more to do with elite specialisations than with the encounter. If you want it harder, use core professions only. No fancy chrono for example. Nor a druid or any kind of healer. No point to gimp yourself if you are not compensated with better rewards But I rarely do fractals anymore. Depending on the group they are either mindnumbing easy or you want to throw the pc out of the window because the pugs are doing so bad in easy content. The new titles dont interest me since they give no AP and the other rewards are not that worthwhile also for a person who has about everything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrubySzymek.1362 Posted January 26, 2018 Share Posted January 26, 2018 > @"Malediktus.9250" said: > at least add T5 and T6 fractals if you want T4 to be easy. Currently T4 fractals are a joke and feel easier than lvl 50 fractal before HoT This is what raids are for. I don't wany fractals to become 5-man raids even more than they already are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zealex.9410 Posted January 26, 2018 Share Posted January 26, 2018 > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > @"Malediktus.9250" said: > > at least add T5 and T6 fractals if you want T4 to be easy. Currently T4 fractals are a joke and feel easier than lvl 50 fractal before HoT > > This is what raids are for. I don't wany fractals to become 5-man raids even more than they already are. I dont want to find 5 more friends to enjoy content that i deem chalenging. I much more prefer the lowman nature of fractals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrubySzymek.1362 Posted January 26, 2018 Share Posted January 26, 2018 > @"zealex.9410" said: > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > @"Malediktus.9250" said: > > > at least add T5 and T6 fractals if you want T4 to be easy. Currently T4 fractals are a joke and feel easier than lvl 50 fractal before HoT > > > > This is what raids are for. I don't wany fractals to become 5-man raids even more than they already are. > > I dont want to find 5 more friends to enjoy content that i deem chalenging. I much more prefer the lowman nature of fractals. You have CMs for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexZero.7910 Posted January 26, 2018 Share Posted January 26, 2018 > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > @"zealex.9410" said: > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > @"Malediktus.9250" said: > > > > at least add T5 and T6 fractals if you want T4 to be easy. Currently T4 fractals are a joke and feel easier than lvl 50 fractal before HoT > > > > > > This is what raids are for. I don't wany fractals to become 5-man raids even more than they already are. > > > > I dont want to find 5 more friends to enjoy content that i deem chalenging. I much more prefer the lowman nature of fractals. > > You have CMs for that. and you have t1-3 for your slap happy fun fest ? So what makes them wanting T5/6 any less valid especially if T4 and CM's are just getting continually nerfed ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrubySzymek.1362 Posted January 26, 2018 Share Posted January 26, 2018 > @"TexZero.7910" said: > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > @"zealex.9410" said: > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > > @"Malediktus.9250" said: > > > > > at least add T5 and T6 fractals if you want T4 to be easy. Currently T4 fractals are a joke and feel easier than lvl 50 fractal before HoT > > > > > > > > This is what raids are for. I don't wany fractals to become 5-man raids even more than they already are. > > > > > > I dont want to find 5 more friends to enjoy content that i deem chalenging. I much more prefer the lowman nature of fractals. > > > > You have CMs for that. > > and you have t1-3 for your slap happy fun fest ? > > So what makes them wanting T5/6 any less valid especially if T4 and CM's are just getting continually nerfed ? no, because fractals are not supposed to be raid difficulty, they are supposed to be our equivalent of abandoned dungeons if you like challenge, go raiding, this is dedicated challenging content raiders are never satisfied, you got finger, now you want more, there is no reason for anet to provide more content for you as you will always complain for more and call their content too easy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Addiction.9685 Posted January 26, 2018 Share Posted January 26, 2018 I have a sneaking suspicion that pugs that find T4s hard are not running a healer. If theres 4 Zerkers and a Viper you're going to run into trouble when people start hitting the dirt. This is the reason I mainly play an Apothecary guardian in T4 fotms. It carries groups extremely well. Even in shattered Observatory and Twilight Oasis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexZero.7910 Posted January 26, 2018 Share Posted January 26, 2018 > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > @"TexZero.7910" said: > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > @"zealex.9410" said: > > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > > > @"Malediktus.9250" said: > > > > > > at least add T5 and T6 fractals if you want T4 to be easy. Currently T4 fractals are a joke and feel easier than lvl 50 fractal before HoT > > > > > > > > > > This is what raids are for. I don't wany fractals to become 5-man raids even more than they already are. > > > > > > > > I dont want to find 5 more friends to enjoy content that i deem chalenging. I much more prefer the lowman nature of fractals. > > > > > > You have CMs for that. > > > > and you have t1-3 for your slap happy fun fest ? > > > > So what makes them wanting T5/6 any less valid especially if T4 and CM's are just getting continually nerfed ? > > no, because fractals are not supposed to be raid difficulty, they are supposed to be our equivalent of abandoned dungeons > > if you like challenge, go raiding, this is dedicated challenging content > > raiders are never satisfied, you got finger, now you want more, there is no reason for anet to provide more content for you as you will always complain for more and call their content too easy No they're not in fact there's a dev quote from ben somewhere on this forum that states T4 and CM are supposed to be just under raid difficulty. T1-T3 is for you dungeon fans who want the ole stacktics back. and here's your direct quote > @"Benjamin Arnold.3457" said: > There's a lot of bickering and people slinging things as facts that aren't, so let me clarify something. Internally we want T2 fractals to be similar to core tyria dungeons in difficulty. T4 fractals should be the hardest 5 man PvE content in the game other than CMs, but notably easier than raids. CMs should be very close to raid difficulty, but not quite there (this is tough to accomplish). Saying T4 Amala is as hard as a raid is simply not true. Source - https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/307271/#Comment_307271 Now can we stop nerfing T4 because a select few people insist on getting rewards in 10 minutes ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrubySzymek.1362 Posted January 26, 2018 Share Posted January 26, 2018 > @"TexZero.7910" said: > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > @"TexZero.7910" said: > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > > @"zealex.9410" said: > > > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > > > > @"Malediktus.9250" said: > > > > > > > at least add T5 and T6 fractals if you want T4 to be easy. Currently T4 fractals are a joke and feel easier than lvl 50 fractal before HoT > > > > > > > > > > > > This is what raids are for. I don't wany fractals to become 5-man raids even more than they already are. > > > > > > > > > > I dont want to find 5 more friends to enjoy content that i deem chalenging. I much more prefer the lowman nature of fractals. > > > > > > > > You have CMs for that. > > > > > > and you have t1-3 for your slap happy fun fest ? > > > > > > So what makes them wanting T5/6 any less valid especially if T4 and CM's are just getting continually nerfed ? > > > > no, because fractals are not supposed to be raid difficulty, they are supposed to be our equivalent of abandoned dungeons > > > > if you like challenge, go raiding, this is dedicated challenging content > > > > raiders are never satisfied, you got finger, now you want more, there is no reason for anet to provide more content for you as you will always complain for more and call their content too easy > > No they're not in fact there's a dev quote from ben somewhere on this forum that states T4 and CM are supposed to be just under raid difficulty. T1-T3 is for you dungeon fans who want the ole stacktics back. > > and here's your direct quote > > @"Benjamin Arnold.3457" said: > > There's a lot of bickering and people slinging things as facts that aren't, so let me clarify something. Internally we want T2 fractals to be similar to core tyria dungeons in difficulty. T4 fractals should be the hardest 5 man PvE content in the game other than CMs, but notably easier than raids. CMs should be very close to raid difficulty, but not quite there (this is tough to accomplish). Saying T4 Amala is as hard as a raid is simply not true. > > Source - https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/307271/#Comment_307271 > > Now can we stop nerfing T4 because a select few people insist on getting rewards in 10 minutes ? > Well, my point is proven. The only raid-like difficulty fractals should be CM :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zealex.9410 Posted January 26, 2018 Share Posted January 26, 2018 > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > @"TexZero.7910" said: > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > @"zealex.9410" said: > > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > > > @"Malediktus.9250" said: > > > > > > at least add T5 and T6 fractals if you want T4 to be easy. Currently T4 fractals are a joke and feel easier than lvl 50 fractal before HoT > > > > > > > > > > This is what raids are for. I don't wany fractals to become 5-man raids even more than they already are. > > > > > > > > I dont want to find 5 more friends to enjoy content that i deem chalenging. I much more prefer the lowman nature of fractals. > > > > > > You have CMs for that. > > > > and you have t1-3 for your slap happy fun fest ? > > > > So what makes them wanting T5/6 any less valid especially if T4 and CM's are just getting continually nerfed ? > > no, because fractals are not supposed to be raid difficulty, they are supposed to be our equivalent of abandoned dungeons > > if you like challenge, go raiding, this is dedicated challenging content > > raiders are never satisfied, you got finger, now you want more, there is no reason for anet to provide more content for you as you will always complain for more and call their content too easy Correction, t1-4 arent supposed to be raid dificulty and they are not. T1 or 2 idk are supposed to be the equivalent of dungeons so go do those if you want that experience. There also no reason to provide ppl with easy content are there will always be ppl taht call it to hard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zealex.9410 Posted January 26, 2018 Share Posted January 26, 2018 > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > @"TexZero.7910" said: > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > @"TexZero.7910" said: > > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > > > @"zealex.9410" said: > > > > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > > > > > @"Malediktus.9250" said: > > > > > > > > at least add T5 and T6 fractals if you want T4 to be easy. Currently T4 fractals are a joke and feel easier than lvl 50 fractal before HoT > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is what raids are for. I don't wany fractals to become 5-man raids even more than they already are. > > > > > > > > > > > > I dont want to find 5 more friends to enjoy content that i deem chalenging. I much more prefer the lowman nature of fractals. > > > > > > > > > > You have CMs for that. > > > > > > > > and you have t1-3 for your slap happy fun fest ? > > > > > > > > So what makes them wanting T5/6 any less valid especially if T4 and CM's are just getting continually nerfed ? > > > > > > no, because fractals are not supposed to be raid difficulty, they are supposed to be our equivalent of abandoned dungeons > > > > > > if you like challenge, go raiding, this is dedicated challenging content > > > > > > raiders are never satisfied, you got finger, now you want more, there is no reason for anet to provide more content for you as you will always complain for more and call their content too easy > > > > No they're not in fact there's a dev quote from ben somewhere on this forum that states T4 and CM are supposed to be just under raid difficulty. T1-T3 is for you dungeon fans who want the ole stacktics back. > > > > and here's your direct quote > > > @"Benjamin Arnold.3457" said: > > > There's a lot of bickering and people slinging things as facts that aren't, so let me clarify something. Internally we want T2 fractals to be similar to core tyria dungeons in difficulty. T4 fractals should be the hardest 5 man PvE content in the game other than CMs, but notably easier than raids. CMs should be very close to raid difficulty, but not quite there (this is tough to accomplish). Saying T4 Amala is as hard as a raid is simply not true. > > > > Source - https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/307271/#Comment_307271 > > > > Now can we stop nerfing T4 because a select few people insist on getting rewards in 10 minutes ? > > > > Well, my point is proven. The only raid-like difficulty fractals should be CM :) No, this proves that not all tiers are supposed to be like dungeons. The opposite of your point. Also iirc ben said that they would translate some of the dificulty of cms into normal fractals to justify not making a new cm with new fractals. I would be ok with t4s being at the lvl the old fractals are if we got more hard content through cms and content that i can play daily. Rn t4s provide me with neither of those things and since i dont like the 10 man format (not that theres anything wrong with 10 man content i just dont dig multiman content that much outisde of doing it a couple of times) i find my self playing less and less. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexZero.7910 Posted January 27, 2018 Share Posted January 27, 2018 > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > Well, my point is proven. The only raid-like difficulty fractals should be CM :) .... Your point was far from proven, if that's what you have to tell yourself when the source proves you're wrong then okay but lets start by not spreading misinformation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrubySzymek.1362 Posted January 27, 2018 Share Posted January 27, 2018 > @"TexZero.7910" said: > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > Well, my point is proven. The only raid-like difficulty fractals should be CM :) > .... > > Your point was far from proven, if that's what you have to tell yourself when the source proves you're wrong then okay but lets start by not spreading misinformation. > Misinformation? You quoted exactly the part saying that only CMs should be similar to raids in terms of difficulty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrizzFreston.5290 Posted January 27, 2018 Share Posted January 27, 2018 > @"zealex.9410" said: > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > @"TexZero.7910" said: > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > > @"TexZero.7910" said: > > > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > > > > @"zealex.9410" said: > > > > > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Malediktus.9250" said: > > > > > > > > > at least add T5 and T6 fractals if you want T4 to be easy. Currently T4 fractals are a joke and feel easier than lvl 50 fractal before HoT > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is what raids are for. I don't wany fractals to become 5-man raids even more than they already are. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I dont want to find 5 more friends to enjoy content that i deem chalenging. I much more prefer the lowman nature of fractals. > > > > > > > > > > > > You have CMs for that. > > > > > > > > > > and you have t1-3 for your slap happy fun fest ? > > > > > > > > > > So what makes them wanting T5/6 any less valid especially if T4 and CM's are just getting continually nerfed ? > > > > > > > > no, because fractals are not supposed to be raid difficulty, they are supposed to be our equivalent of abandoned dungeons > > > > > > > > if you like challenge, go raiding, this is dedicated challenging content > > > > > > > > raiders are never satisfied, you got finger, now you want more, there is no reason for anet to provide more content for you as you will always complain for more and call their content too easy > > > > > > No they're not in fact there's a dev quote from ben somewhere on this forum that states T4 and CM are supposed to be just under raid difficulty. T1-T3 is for you dungeon fans who want the ole stacktics back. > > > > > > and here's your direct quote > > > > @"Benjamin Arnold.3457" said: > > > > There's a lot of bickering and people slinging things as facts that aren't, so let me clarify something. Internally we want T2 fractals to be similar to core tyria dungeons in difficulty. T4 fractals should be the hardest 5 man PvE content in the game other than CMs, but notably easier than raids. CMs should be very close to raid difficulty, but not quite there (this is tough to accomplish). Saying T4 Amala is as hard as a raid is simply not true. > > > > > > Source - https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/307271/#Comment_307271 > > > > > > Now can we stop nerfing T4 because a select few people insist on getting rewards in 10 minutes ? > > > > > > > Well, my point is proven. The only raid-like difficulty fractals should be CM :) > > No, this proves that not all tiers are supposed to be like dungeons. The opposite of your point. Also iirc ben said that they would translate some of the dificulty of cms into normal fractals to justify not making a new cm with new fractals. I would be ok with t4s being at the lvl the old fractals are if we got more hard content through cms and content that i can play daily. Rn t4s provide me with neither of those things and since i dont like the 10 man format (not that theres anything wrong with 10 man content i just dont dig multiman content that much outisde of doing it a couple of times) i find my self playing less and less. Well Ben also said this supposed change is not a nerf at all. *shrug* But I don't want to pick Ben's side over Ben's other side. But really, if nerfing it means that it becomes more in line with other fractals that seems perfectly logical with me. And I also wouldn't be against an even higher "CM" tier if you will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Illconceived Was Na.9781 Posted January 27, 2018 Share Posted January 27, 2018 CM fractals are the only ones supposed to be (nearly) as hard as raids ... and fortunately, those are the only fractals that are. Only T2 fractals are supposed to be like core Tyria fractals (not "fractals" in general) and, also fortunately, T2 fractals are about the same level of difficulty as dungeons. > > > [benjamin Arnold.3457 wrote](Source - https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/307271/#Comment_307271) > > > There's a lot of bickering and people slinging things as facts that aren't, so let me clarify something. Internally we want > > > * T2 fractals to be similar to core tyria dungeons in difficulty. > > > * T4 fractals should be the hardest 5 man PvE content in the game other than CMs, but notably easier than raids. > > > * CMs should be very close to raid difficulty, but not quite there (this is tough to accomplish). > > > * Saying T4 Amala is as hard as a raid is simply not true. > > > > _poster's note: re-arranged to bullets, to make the distinctions more clear_ > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > Well, my point is proven. The only raid-like difficulty fractals should be CM :) Except [what you wrote at first was](https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/371553/#Comment_371553): > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > no, because fractals are not supposed to be raid difficulty, they are supposed to be our equivalent of abandoned dungeons Ben specifically said that T2 fractals are supposed to be similar to core Tyria dungeons. And they are. Ben further said that T4 are supposed to be the hardest 5-person content _in the game_, behind fractal CM, which are close to raid difficulty. And Ben went further to point out that a T4 fractal that some consider "too hard" is definitely not as hard as a raid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vinceman.4572 Posted January 27, 2018 Share Posted January 27, 2018 Fractals are hard...if you run with the wrong players. Otherwise they are easy. To answer to the OP: No nothing has changed. It's the players you meet from time to time. I reran several fracs including 53 and 87 since you opened that thread. It's definitely the players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nebilim.5127 Posted January 27, 2018 Share Posted January 27, 2018 > @"Benjamin Arnold.3457" said: > The average success time for TO is also second highest, currently right below Shattered Observatory. We want it to be in line with most of the other fractals. I think the problem is that the whole fractal is riddled with trash that one shots you, along with a mechanic that is terribly ping unfriendly. Half of the time i got myself killed was because i missed a joko jump to another platform or fell too behind. Would be nice to have that skill with charges, 2 should be enough, maybe get rid of the charges during combat and make only 1. But ye, the time adds up when you have a dedicated trash fractal with mobs that hits as hard as the ascalon one with 10k hits on protection and pots. So pugs waste their time killing all of them/or dying to them. I don't mind fighting trash, but they must be tied to a mechanic or have some significance instead of just being something they do just to slow you down to the actual mechanic(the elite sandy guys). 99 and 100 is a GREAT example of trash fights done right. The new molten boss and joko one is absolutely the worst way one could do them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrubySzymek.1362 Posted January 27, 2018 Share Posted January 27, 2018 > @"Vinceman.4572" said: > Fractals are hard...if you run with the wrong players. Otherwise they are easy. > > To answer to the OP: No nothing has changed. It's the players you meet from time to time. I reran several fracs including 53 and 87 since you opened that thread. It's definitely the players. wow what a wise statement, almost like Paris Hilton saying "Poor people should stop being poor" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zealex.9410 Posted January 27, 2018 Share Posted January 27, 2018 > @"FrizzFreston.5290" said: > > > @"zealex.9410" said: > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > @"TexZero.7910" said: > > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > > > @"TexZero.7910" said: > > > > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > > > > > @"zealex.9410" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Malediktus.9250" said: > > > > > > > > > > at least add T5 and T6 fractals if you want T4 to be easy. Currently T4 fractals are a joke and feel easier than lvl 50 fractal before HoT > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is what raids are for. I don't wany fractals to become 5-man raids even more than they already are. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I dont want to find 5 more friends to enjoy content that i deem chalenging. I much more prefer the lowman nature of fractals. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You have CMs for that. > > > > > > > > > > > > and you have t1-3 for your slap happy fun fest ? > > > > > > > > > > > > So what makes them wanting T5/6 any less valid especially if T4 and CM's are just getting continually nerfed ? > > > > > > > > > > no, because fractals are not supposed to be raid difficulty, they are supposed to be our equivalent of abandoned dungeons > > > > > > > > > > if you like challenge, go raiding, this is dedicated challenging content > > > > > > > > > > raiders are never satisfied, you got finger, now you want more, there is no reason for anet to provide more content for you as you will always complain for more and call their content too easy > > > > > > > > No they're not in fact there's a dev quote from ben somewhere on this forum that states T4 and CM are supposed to be just under raid difficulty. T1-T3 is for you dungeon fans who want the ole stacktics back. > > > > > > > > and here's your direct quote > > > > > @"Benjamin Arnold.3457" said: > > > > > There's a lot of bickering and people slinging things as facts that aren't, so let me clarify something. Internally we want T2 fractals to be similar to core tyria dungeons in difficulty. T4 fractals should be the hardest 5 man PvE content in the game other than CMs, but notably easier than raids. CMs should be very close to raid difficulty, but not quite there (this is tough to accomplish). Saying T4 Amala is as hard as a raid is simply not true. > > > > > > > > Source - https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/307271/#Comment_307271 > > > > > > > > Now can we stop nerfing T4 because a select few people insist on getting rewards in 10 minutes ? > > > > > > > > > > Well, my point is proven. The only raid-like difficulty fractals should be CM :) > > > > No, this proves that not all tiers are supposed to be like dungeons. The opposite of your point. Also iirc ben said that they would translate some of the dificulty of cms into normal fractals to justify not making a new cm with new fractals. I would be ok with t4s being at the lvl the old fractals are if we got more hard content through cms and content that i can play daily. Rn t4s provide me with neither of those things and since i dont like the 10 man format (not that theres anything wrong with 10 man content i just dont dig multiman content that much outisde of doing it a couple of times) i find my self playing less and less. > > Well Ben also said this supposed change is not a nerf at all. *shrug* > But I don't want to pick Ben's side over Ben's other side. > > But really, if nerfing it means that it becomes more in line with other fractals that seems perfectly logical with me. And I also wouldn't be against an even higher "CM" tier if you will. My biggest issue is with such change comming with new fractals on release. I feels its perfectly acceptable for a new fractal to take you anywhere from 30 min to an hour when u and your group first tackle it. That doesnt include cms, just normal fractals. If they later down the line see that the fractal takes too long then i guess they can di that but on release i thing its too much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Illconceived Was Na.9781 Posted January 27, 2018 Share Posted January 27, 2018 > @"zealex.9410" said: > My biggest issue is with such change comming with new fractals on release. I feels its perfectly acceptable for a new fractal to take you anywhere from 30 min to an hour when u and your group first tackle it. That doesnt include cms, just normal fractals. If they later down the line see that the fractal takes too long then i guess they can di that but on release i thing its too much. I think it's got to be really difficult for the fractal/raid teams to get the difficulty exactly where they want it right off the bat. And I think it's appropriate to err on the side of too much difficulty rather than too little. There's far less pushback from far fewer people to make things easier, compared to trying to make things more difficult. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrizzFreston.5290 Posted January 27, 2018 Share Posted January 27, 2018 > @"zealex.9410" said: > > @"FrizzFreston.5290" said: > > > > > @"zealex.9410" said: > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > > @"TexZero.7910" said: > > > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > > > > @"TexZero.7910" said: > > > > > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > > > > > > @"zealex.9410" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Malediktus.9250" said: > > > > > > > > > > > at least add T5 and T6 fractals if you want T4 to be easy. Currently T4 fractals are a joke and feel easier than lvl 50 fractal before HoT > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is what raids are for. I don't wany fractals to become 5-man raids even more than they already are. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I dont want to find 5 more friends to enjoy content that i deem chalenging. I much more prefer the lowman nature of fractals. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You have CMs for that. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and you have t1-3 for your slap happy fun fest ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So what makes them wanting T5/6 any less valid especially if T4 and CM's are just getting continually nerfed ? > > > > > > > > > > > > no, because fractals are not supposed to be raid difficulty, they are supposed to be our equivalent of abandoned dungeons > > > > > > > > > > > > if you like challenge, go raiding, this is dedicated challenging content > > > > > > > > > > > > raiders are never satisfied, you got finger, now you want more, there is no reason for anet to provide more content for you as you will always complain for more and call their content too easy > > > > > > > > > > No they're not in fact there's a dev quote from ben somewhere on this forum that states T4 and CM are supposed to be just under raid difficulty. T1-T3 is for you dungeon fans who want the ole stacktics back. > > > > > > > > > > and here's your direct quote > > > > > > @"Benjamin Arnold.3457" said: > > > > > > There's a lot of bickering and people slinging things as facts that aren't, so let me clarify something. Internally we want T2 fractals to be similar to core tyria dungeons in difficulty. T4 fractals should be the hardest 5 man PvE content in the game other than CMs, but notably easier than raids. CMs should be very close to raid difficulty, but not quite there (this is tough to accomplish). Saying T4 Amala is as hard as a raid is simply not true. > > > > > > > > > > Source - https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/307271/#Comment_307271 > > > > > > > > > > Now can we stop nerfing T4 because a select few people insist on getting rewards in 10 minutes ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > Well, my point is proven. The only raid-like difficulty fractals should be CM :) > > > > > > No, this proves that not all tiers are supposed to be like dungeons. The opposite of your point. Also iirc ben said that they would translate some of the dificulty of cms into normal fractals to justify not making a new cm with new fractals. I would be ok with t4s being at the lvl the old fractals are if we got more hard content through cms and content that i can play daily. Rn t4s provide me with neither of those things and since i dont like the 10 man format (not that theres anything wrong with 10 man content i just dont dig multiman content that much outisde of doing it a couple of times) i find my self playing less and less. > > > > Well Ben also said this supposed change is not a nerf at all. *shrug* > > But I don't want to pick Ben's side over Ben's other side. > > > > But really, if nerfing it means that it becomes more in line with other fractals that seems perfectly logical with me. And I also wouldn't be against an even higher "CM" tier if you will. > > My biggest issue is with such change comming with new fractals on release. I feels its perfectly acceptable for a new fractal to take you anywhere from 30 min to an hour when u and your group first tackle it. That doesnt include cms, just normal fractals. If they later down the line see that the fractal takes too long then i guess they can di that but on release i thing its too much. Just to get clear: The upcoming changes would be 2 months after release. Though maybe that could be seen by some as on release by Anet standards I suppose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astralporing.1957 Posted January 27, 2018 Share Posted January 27, 2018 > @"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said: > Ben specifically said that T2 fractals are supposed to be similar to core Tyria dungeons. And they are. Ben further said that T4 are supposed to be the hardest 5-person content _in the game_, behind fractal CM, which are close to raid difficulty. He also said, in that very same quote, the one that has been already posted in this thread, that t4, while remaining the hardest 5-person content in the game (below CM's, of course), should be "notably easier than raids". So, basically, only CMs should approach (but never equal) raid difficulty. Everything else should be easier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zealex.9410 Posted January 27, 2018 Share Posted January 27, 2018 > @"FrizzFreston.5290" said: > > @"zealex.9410" said: > > > @"FrizzFreston.5290" said: > > > > > > > @"zealex.9410" said: > > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > > > @"TexZero.7910" said: > > > > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > > > > > @"TexZero.7910" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"zealex.9410" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Malediktus.9250" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > at least add T5 and T6 fractals if you want T4 to be easy. Currently T4 fractals are a joke and feel easier than lvl 50 fractal before HoT > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is what raids are for. I don't wany fractals to become 5-man raids even more than they already are. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I dont want to find 5 more friends to enjoy content that i deem chalenging. I much more prefer the lowman nature of fractals. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You have CMs for that. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and you have t1-3 for your slap happy fun fest ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So what makes them wanting T5/6 any less valid especially if T4 and CM's are just getting continually nerfed ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > no, because fractals are not supposed to be raid difficulty, they are supposed to be our equivalent of abandoned dungeons > > > > > > > > > > > > > > if you like challenge, go raiding, this is dedicated challenging content > > > > > > > > > > > > > > raiders are never satisfied, you got finger, now you want more, there is no reason for anet to provide more content for you as you will always complain for more and call their content too easy > > > > > > > > > > > > No they're not in fact there's a dev quote from ben somewhere on this forum that states T4 and CM are supposed to be just under raid difficulty. T1-T3 is for you dungeon fans who want the ole stacktics back. > > > > > > > > > > > > and here's your direct quote > > > > > > > @"Benjamin Arnold.3457" said: > > > > > > > There's a lot of bickering and people slinging things as facts that aren't, so let me clarify something. Internally we want T2 fractals to be similar to core tyria dungeons in difficulty. T4 fractals should be the hardest 5 man PvE content in the game other than CMs, but notably easier than raids. CMs should be very close to raid difficulty, but not quite there (this is tough to accomplish). Saying T4 Amala is as hard as a raid is simply not true. > > > > > > > > > > > > Source - https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/307271/#Comment_307271 > > > > > > > > > > > > Now can we stop nerfing T4 because a select few people insist on getting rewards in 10 minutes ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Well, my point is proven. The only raid-like difficulty fractals should be CM :) > > > > > > > > No, this proves that not all tiers are supposed to be like dungeons. The opposite of your point. Also iirc ben said that they would translate some of the dificulty of cms into normal fractals to justify not making a new cm with new fractals. I would be ok with t4s being at the lvl the old fractals are if we got more hard content through cms and content that i can play daily. Rn t4s provide me with neither of those things and since i dont like the 10 man format (not that theres anything wrong with 10 man content i just dont dig multiman content that much outisde of doing it a couple of times) i find my self playing less and less. > > > > > > Well Ben also said this supposed change is not a nerf at all. *shrug* > > > But I don't want to pick Ben's side over Ben's other side. > > > > > > But really, if nerfing it means that it becomes more in line with other fractals that seems perfectly logical with me. And I also wouldn't be against an even higher "CM" tier if you will. > > > > My biggest issue is with such change comming with new fractals on release. I feels its perfectly acceptable for a new fractal to take you anywhere from 30 min to an hour when u and your group first tackle it. That doesnt include cms, just normal fractals. If they later down the line see that the fractal takes too long then i guess they can di that but on release i thing its too much. > > Just to get clear: The upcoming changes would be 2 months after release. > > Though maybe that could be seen by some as on release by Anet standards I suppose. They did it by default on the reworked molten duo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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