Ascended Gear was a Mistake

[aceofbass.2163]

> @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said:

>In pve it serves as psychological barrier for players to constantly question and exclude others from fractals and raids. It also results in endless inquiries into whether or not you have ascended gear, and to show said ascended gear to everyone. >

 

In openworld pve nobody would care what you have on and in raids even exotics are enough for you to get in as long as you know the mechanics, know your the correct build and rotation. It's really just required if you are planning to do the highest tier fractals as the slot in ascended are needed for the agony infusions.

 

> In wvw it gives a noticeable advantage in what should be a somewhat fair pvp setting. 5-10% more damage on a full zerker or condi build especially on multiple targets is a lot of damage over time, enough to be noticeable, and enough to get you excluded from raiding guilds/commander squads and parties if you don't have it. wouldn't it be nice if it was all exotics, which are easy to get and nobody would really have to think about it or question whether or not your playing with max stats?

 

dude 5-10% is paltry. don't blow up the difference to make it seem such a huge one. Even exos can crush ascended geared people. You can win in wvw by having tactics and/or numbers, not 5% gear difference.

 

>

> Ascended also isn't usable in spvp, but creates endless confusion in that most new players to spvp constantly ask if their ascended gear is needed to participate in spvp or if ascended alters their stats there in some way.

 

Good. It's more balanced that way. Also, new players (as in never stepped into HoTM) will be confused of course but once they ask in map chat about the pvp build or even just see that button settings it won't be a problem. Not an ENDLESS confusion at all. It's normal for new people to ask questions (creates endless confusion in that most new players to spvp constantly ask if their ascended gear is needed) and if you are annoyed by that...well that's a different problem. It's even an advantage to them that they can participate even with the most basic gear.

 

>

> All i know is most games are gravitating towards leveling the playing field and gw2 straddles that line with ascended gear as a way of catering to people who want gear grind. Imagine playing PUBG, but some guy has 10% more health, damage and defense, simply because, he played more hours and grinded for those stats. Makes for silly game play that I'm not sure many would tolerate.

>

 

Uhm....you know you are playing an MMORPG right? Also GW2 has the least amount of effort you have to progress gear right now, unlike WoW or BDO.

 

 

In all honestly, this is just laziness. If you want something good, you have to work on it a at least a little bit. Ascended items are not hard to acquire considering they are the top tier gear. Don't be such a millennial man.

 

 

[ReaverKane.7598]

> @"STIHL.2489" said:

> > @"ReaverKane.7598" said:

> > > @"STIHL.2489" said:

> > > > @"ReaverKane.7598" said:

> > > > Just like every other gear check in every other MMORPG? Try doing Raids in WoW without the bear minimum gear, or join a decent guild in BDO without the proper gear score.

> > > >

> > >

> > > yah, but you gotta understand, if they wanted to play a game with a gear score, they would have gone and played a game with gear score and not come here.

> > >

> > > I am not saying that they should not suck it up and deal, and either git gud or move on.. just saying maybe they came here to get away from that, but sucks to be them right.. cause it's here now.

> >

> > Nowhere, anywhere is there stated that this game only has one tier of gear. Not one of the points of sale for this game is that it only has one.

> > So why would they come here expecting it?

> >

> > Not to mention that the OP's point of comparison is PUBG? Really?

>

> I'd encourage you to [Read This](https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/guild-wars-2-design-manifesto/ "Read This"). It's kinda long, but it might give you an idea where some of these people are coming from, not that it matters mind you, I mean, they are gonna deal with what they have or go cry off to another game.

 

> @"Ashen.2907" said:

> > @"ReaverKane.7598" said:

> > > @"STIHL.2489" said:

> > > > @"ReaverKane.7598" said:

> > > > Just like every other gear check in every other MMORPG? Try doing Raids in WoW without the bear minimum gear, or join a decent guild in BDO without the proper gear score.

> > > >

> > >

> > > yah, but you gotta understand, if they wanted to play a game with a gear score, they would have gone and played a game with gear score and not come here.

> > >

> > > I am not saying that they should not suck it up and deal, and either git gud or move on.. just saying maybe they came here to get away from that, but sucks to be them right.. cause it's here now.

> >

> > Nowhere, anywhere is there stated that this game only has one tier of gear. Not one of the points of sale for this game is that it only has one.

> > So why would they come here expecting it?

> >

> > Not to mention that the OP's point of comparison is PUBG? Really?

>

> I agree. I never saw anything said by Anet that the game would have only a single tier of gear. However, in the build up to launch, the game was marketed in a variety of ways. One of them included the following selling point:

>

> "Everyone, including casual gamers, by level 80 should have the best statistical loot in the game."

> -Colin Johanson

>

> They got pretty close to that (from my experience) prior to the addition of ascended. My main was fully geared in exotics fairly shortly after reaching level 80. Not, "by level 80," but pretty close. Now those days are long past. The addition of ascended tier gear nullified that selling point but there really isnt any going back now. I took a break from the game over the addition, eliminated spending on the game for the most part (other than buying expansions), and don't feel the need to withhold my opinion when a thread wanders onto the topic, but its a decent game worth playing even if one of the major reasons for buying the game (for me) was eliminated.

>

>

 

There was always a gear grind since launch... No way as soon as you hit lvl 80 would you be full lvl 80 exotics, especially because those were basically only obtainable through dungeon points, which especially at launch were really hard to finish explorable mode before 80. Either that or craft, but to craft them at the early days you'd have to farm t6 like crazy, because they weren't cheap or as readily available as they are now.

I remember farming barracudas for days for my first exotic (knight's - i wanted to tank, ok) set.

It would be nice if you could give me a time-line for that "shortly after 80", because it doesn't really compute with my experience and the feedback i was getting from my team mates either.

 

Back on topic, the actual quotes in the manifesto are:

>Finally, since combat is such a core part of the gameplay of any MMO, we’ve put a lot of emphasis into rethinking combat. So much of traditional MMO combat is rote and repetitive. You execute the same strategy over and over again, just augmented over time with better and better gear. After a while it starts to feel like you’re playing a spreadsheet. Combat needs to be about making creative choices, and it needs to feel immediate, active, and visceral. So we’ve put a huge focus on strengthening our combat, giving the player limitless choices, and providing the thrill and joy of being in combat.

 

and

 

>It doesn’t suck your life away and force you onto a grinding treadmill; it doesn’t make you spend hours preparing to have fun rather than just having fun; and of course, it doesn’t have a monthly fee.

 

So for the first quote i think they did it. I mean although arguably better, the only content that requires ascended gear is Fractals. And it's that way by design. And if anything what failed wasn't ascended gear itself, but discontinuing dungeons in favour of fractals. Fractals should have been always the hard-core alternative to dungeons. But with Raids being a thing, and T1 Fractals not requiring ascended any more. I think its fair to say they handled as best as they could to deliver the most content with their available resources. (I'm imagining that not only were Dungeons in an unsolvable state, but that spreading man power to those 3 content venues wasn't feasible).

 

The second statment... Well... Intended or not, grinding was always there. And even without ascended gear in the mix, nowadays GW2 is very much all about rote and grind. Especially with the ever more exuberant costs of NPC items (like PoF ascendeds, those are fun) and crafting (again, PoF, bestest ratio of what you get vs what you need)

 

I wouldn't say that Ascended gear violates their initial statements. I mean i've been playing GW2 since pre-launch, i was drawn into the game by that same manifesto, because i was tired of farming and grindy games, and i left the game for half a year, not because of Ascended gear, but because Living world had become a grind. Every 2 weeks you had to rush to complete all the content and farm all the rewards before it was gone. I simply burnt out of that pace, along with 90% of my guild at the time.

 

> @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > @"STIHL.2489" said:

> > > @"ReaverKane.7598" said:

> > > Just like every other gear check in every other MMORPG? Try doing Raids in WoW without the bear minimum gear, or join a decent guild in BDO without the proper gear score.

> > >

> >

> > yah, but you gotta understand, if they wanted to play a game with a gear score, they would have gone and played a game with gear score and not come here.

> >

> > I am not saying that they should not suck it up and deal, and either git gud or move on.. just saying maybe they came here to get away from that, but sucks to be them right.. cause it's here now.

>

> No, you need to understand that the gear score is a player-instituted thing. There is no such thing as 'gone to a game without a gear score' unless you play a game with no players ...

Actually... BDO has that stat: Gear Points or something along those lines. And boy, people don't know gear treadmills at all if they think ascended gear is bad...

How many games have "enhancements" for Gear, where you have to fuse stuff to your gear, make it +X, with the possibility of failing, and even breaking the items?

Imagine If infusions would increase stats instead of AR for every +1, and that you could fail to increase the +1's.

**THAT** my friends is a gear treadmill. Having basically 2 tiers of end-game gear that you can easily obtain, and don't need to enhance any further... Well... That's Skyrim, or just about any RPG. Hardly a broken promiss.

 

 

> @"Nuka Cola.8520" said:

> Ascended items were a mistake

> Abandoning dungeons was a mistake

> Forgetting WvW is in their game is a mistake

> Having 1.5 person in charge of the balance is a mistake

> Making elite specs SIGNIFICANTLY more powerful than core is a mistake

>

> GW2 is a mistake factory.

Agree with those minus the first, and i would add a few others too:

The quarterly balance schedule (killed PvP),

Removing ranked teams and guild ranked teams (also didn't help the health of pvp),

Losing ESL,

Mount gate,

Rushing HoT,

Most of Revenant,

i could go on, actually.

But Ascended gear wouldn't be anywhere near that list...

Ascended gear crafting choices, that i would (the inconsistent Silk cost for Bolt of Damask, when compared to the other ascended items, the time gated materials, the change on PvP ascended armour to require a crafted mark to buy from the NPC, defeating the purpose of having an NPC selling it).

[STIHL.2489]

> @"ReaverKane.7598" said:

> > @"STIHL.2489" said:

> > > @"ReaverKane.7598" said:

> > > > @"STIHL.2489" said:

> > > > > @"ReaverKane.7598" said:

> > > > > Just like every other gear check in every other MMORPG? Try doing Raids in WoW without the bear minimum gear, or join a decent guild in BDO without the proper gear score.

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > yah, but you gotta understand, if they wanted to play a game with a gear score, they would have gone and played a game with gear score and not come here.

> > > >

> > > > I am not saying that they should not suck it up and deal, and either git gud or move on.. just saying maybe they came here to get away from that, but sucks to be them right.. cause it's here now.

> > >

> > > Nowhere, anywhere is there stated that this game only has one tier of gear. Not one of the points of sale for this game is that it only has one.

> > > So why would they come here expecting it?

> > >

> > > Not to mention that the OP's point of comparison is PUBG? Really?

> >

> > I'd encourage you to [Read This](https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/guild-wars-2-design-manifesto/ "Read This"). It's kinda long, but it might give you an idea where some of these people are coming from, not that it matters mind you, I mean, they are gonna deal with what they have or go cry off to another game.

>

> > @"Ashen.2907" said:

> > > @"ReaverKane.7598" said:

> > > > @"STIHL.2489" said:

> > > > > @"ReaverKane.7598" said:

> > > > > Just like every other gear check in every other MMORPG? Try doing Raids in WoW without the bear minimum gear, or join a decent guild in BDO without the proper gear score.

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > yah, but you gotta understand, if they wanted to play a game with a gear score, they would have gone and played a game with gear score and not come here.

> > > >

> > > > I am not saying that they should not suck it up and deal, and either git gud or move on.. just saying maybe they came here to get away from that, but sucks to be them right.. cause it's here now.

> > >

> > > Nowhere, anywhere is there stated that this game only has one tier of gear. Not one of the points of sale for this game is that it only has one.

> > > So why would they come here expecting it?

> > >

> > > Not to mention that the OP's point of comparison is PUBG? Really?

> >

> > I agree. I never saw anything said by Anet that the game would have only a single tier of gear. However, in the build up to launch, the game was marketed in a variety of ways. One of them included the following selling point:

> >

> > "Everyone, including casual gamers, by level 80 should have the best statistical loot in the game."

> > -Colin Johanson

> >

> > They got pretty close to that (from my experience) prior to the addition of ascended. My main was fully geared in exotics fairly shortly after reaching level 80. Not, "by level 80," but pretty close. Now those days are long past. The addition of ascended tier gear nullified that selling point but there really isnt any going back now. I took a break from the game over the addition, eliminated spending on the game for the most part (other than buying expansions), and don't feel the need to withhold my opinion when a thread wanders onto the topic, but its a decent game worth playing even if one of the major reasons for buying the game (for me) was eliminated.

> >

> >

>

> There was always a gear grind since launch... No way as soon as you hit lvl 80 would you be full lvl 80 exotics, especially because those were basically only obtainable through dungeon points, which especially at launch were really hard to finish explorable mode before 80. Either that or craft, but to craft them at the early days you'd have to farm t6 like crazy, because they weren't cheap or as readily available as they are now.

 

I can't speak for anyone but myself, but I started kinda late into the game, and had no issues running AC explorers at 60's as opposed to needing to be 80th, my guilds mates wee very cool about it.. and I was told to save my tokens for exotics when I leveled.. literally when I leveled to 80th, I had a full set of Exotic gear waiting for me, all dungeon armor. real pity they went and killed dungeons.

 

But again.. Like I said, this game is riddled with a lot of bad choices, killing dungeons is good example.

 

But as I said, it does not matter if they love or hate ascended, they will deal, grind for it.. or go cry off to another game.

[Henry.5713]

Good job creating another silly topic for all of the naysayers to meet up and talk about how the game died years ago.

[Turin.6921]

You could get exotic items only within 2 weeks at the launch of the game where gold and karma was difficult. Exotics have no challenge currently and you can obtain them immediately. The tier was added cause they underestimated the speed people would obtain exotics. You need at least some initial progression for your characters. Progression is not the same as progression grind. Their manifesto promising no grind is not the same as promising no progression. Even in GW1 as you say you needed some progression for your gear. And you had to make a good effort to obtain the most useful skills for your build even if the armor was easy. An effort that does not exist in GW2.

 

Ascended can be obtained by multiple sources. It is only required for fractals. All the other content is designed for exotics in mind and even raids that are not supposed to, only need ascended trinkets and weapons which are very easy to obtain (minimum training reqs currently) and if you are experienced enough on raids and fractals getting ascended is a non-issue.

 

Fractals progression also follows quite naturally your ability to get ascended (and you do not even need for t1 - so it is only a barrier for the later tiers). In raids the main barrier will not be the equipment but your skill. I have not met a single person that he had nailed the mechanics and builds but his barrier was the equipment. It takes more time to become skillful on the game than to have enough for the gear tier.

 

Also ascended gear is not a grind. It is amazingly reasonable as a challenge and you only do **once**. Transforming them to other stats combi is trivial now. This is complete non-issue. You want the game to be a game and thus not everything can be given to a platter the first few days you play.

 

[Astralporing.1957]

> @"xihorus.2804" said:

> > @"IndigoSundown.5419" said:

> > Ascended rings always had higher stats than exotic ones.

> When they were first released, ascended rings had higher base stats than exotics but you could not place gems in them. As I remember, because of this an exotic berserker ring with a Exquisite Ruby Jewel had higher stats than an ascended berserker ring.

You remember wrong. [https://guildwars2.com/en-gb/news/linsey-murdock-unveils-new-high-end-ascended-gear/](https://www.guildwars2.com/en-gb/news/linsey-murdock-unveils-new-high-end-ascended-gear/ "Here") you have ascended reveal blog post, with a picture showing the stat difference of an example ring (which happens to be one with MF primary stat - something that no longer exists). Notice, how the ascended gear _does_ have gem stat upgrade already included, it's just shown a little bit differently than in case of exotic version. The total stats of ascended version is also higher.

 

There were no stat changes between that blog and actual release. There was no "adding jewel upgrades" later on - those were there from the beginning. There was no point in time when ascended gear didn't have better stats than exotics.

 

> @"Turin.6921" said:

> You could get exotic items only within 2 weeks at the launch of the game where gold and karma was difficult. Exotics have no challenge currently and you can obtain them immediately. The tier was added cause they underestimated the speed people would obtain exotics.

They didn't - it was actually slower than planned. You do remember, that the original idea was for players to be fully decked in BiS gear by the time they've reached level cap (like it was in GW1), right?

 

They didn't originally plan for the gear grind to replace content. It's just that their plans have _changed_ after launch. They were simply unable to keep up to their desired content schedule (which may have something to do with the fact that the launch got rushed, due to certain pandas...), and decided to replace it with something they could do cheaply and quickly.

 

 

 

 

[Cobrakon.3108]

One of the reasons many people originally came to GW2 was the advertised absence of "grind". With exotics, you could buy pretty much all your gear so it was however you wanted to farm or you could just craft. Ascended forced a lot of grind: forcing crafting on people was a big no no. The crafting was too grindy and reminded me of older crafting systems from older MMO's.

 

That's just one aspect the other angle is the game mechanics. Gw2 had some great ideas that went against the grain of older mmo's. Things like the dodge mechanics and abilities being more about real time strats and positional play. They also broke the golden trinity requirement.

 

Why then did they add stuff in the game that wreaked of old mmos. Boon condi and trash ability spam makes it less real time strat and more like a card game I.E. like older mmos. Adding the trinity pigeon holes what you can do any given time on the battlefield.

 

Its like Anet took GW2 two steps forward but 4 steps back in the direction of Older mmos. They should have stuck with adding to the unique mechanics, stayed away from gear grind, and continued with new content and advanced their "dynamic events" from where they started. I really love this game, but I think the company got cold feet and decided to take the safe known route with game design. The thing is the market is flooded with the old way of making mmos. GW2 stood out from the pack because of its uniqueness and I fear it wont thrive as well because of the company running toward the past instead of into the future.

[Crossaber.8934]

It was a mistake but it is no longer an issue after all these years. There are many ways to obtain ascended gear across the game, just consider it is the end game gear and it is what make crafting worth it.

 

It may sounds like grind at first, but considering we can stat change with forge, account bound wise, it is just a goal for players to work towards. For those who don’t have time to work on ascended, it is totally optional.

 

There is stat differences between exotic and ascended but the gap is not as impactful as personal skills differences.

[Cuddy.6247]

I don't think it was a mistake. I just think it's overhyped outside of Fractals. I have two characters geared in ascended (all characters have trinkets since they're lul-easy to get and with the caladbolg love I have at _least_ a handful of ascended weapons) - I honestly can't tell the difference. Ascended is trivially useless outside of AR.

 

My only mistake was bothering to spend gold on my first set.

[Despond.2174]

Sorry, maybe in the past it was hard to acquire, but not anymore. You can get a full set of everything ascended in a few weeks of casual grinding. It wasn't a mistake, you're exaggerating. This game has the least gear treadmill of all the popular MMOs, you have it very good trust me. Once you make your ascended gear, that's it, it' the best until GW3.

 

AANET has given us multiple ways to farm ~20g/hr, in fact one of the most popular ones is free, Istan. You can just farm Istan and craft your gears, it's never been easier.

[Ashen.2907]

> @"Astralporing.1957" said:

> > @"xihorus.2804" said:

> > > @"IndigoSundown.5419" said:

> > > Ascended rings always had higher stats than exotic ones.

> > When they were first released, ascended rings had higher base stats than exotics but you could not place gems in them. As I remember, because of this an exotic berserker ring with a Exquisite Ruby Jewel had higher stats than an ascended berserker ring.

> You remember wrong. [https://guildwars2.com/en-gb/news/linsey-murdock-unveils-new-high-end-ascended-gear/](https://www.guildwars2.com/en-gb/news/linsey-murdock-unveils-new-high-end-ascended-gear/ "Here") you have ascended reveal blog post, with a picture showing the stat difference of an example ring (which happens to be one with MF primary stat - something that no longer exists). Notice, how the ascended gear _does_ have gem stat upgrade already included, it's just shown a little bit differently than in case of exotic version. The total stats of ascended version is also higher.

>

> There were no stat changes between that blog and actual release. There was no "adding jewel upgrades" later on - those were there from the beginning. There was no point in time when ascended gear didn't have better stats than exotics.

>

> > @"Turin.6921" said:

> > You could get exotic items only within 2 weeks at the launch of the game where gold and karma was difficult. Exotics have no challenge currently and you can obtain them immediately. The tier was added cause they underestimated the speed people would obtain exotics.

> They didn't - it was actually slower than planned. You do remember, that the original idea was for players to be fully decked in BiS gear by the time they've reached level cap (like it was in GW1), right?

>

> They didn't originally plan for the gear grind to replace content. It's just that their plans have _changed_ after launch. They were simply unable to keep up to their desired content schedule (which may have something to do with the fact that the launch got rushed, due to certain pandas...), and decided to replace it with something they could do cheaply and quickly.

>

>

>

>

 

This.

[Bish.8627]

I have shared OP's opinion in many threads, since the very first ascended item and been shot down for it. Usually by people in full ascended who will not admit, particularly in WvW, ascended does give an advantage. It is easier to get now, and I too have a full ascended main. But I honestly think it being introduced was a mistake from the start.

[STIHL.2489]

> @"Bish.8627" said:

> I have shared OP's opinion in many threads, since the very first ascended item and been shot down for it. Usually by people in full ascended who will not admit, particularly in WvW, ascended does give an advantage. It is easier to get now, and I too have a full ascended main. But I honestly think it being introduced was a mistake from the start.

 

I have full ascended.. but on my PvE toons.. I still run WvW in Exotics because they keep changing the meta.

 

Anyway.. it's not that I agree or disagree.. it's that this is what the game has now, it's not going to go away, so, you can either embrace that this is what is in the game and try to have fun with it, or you can let it ruin your game time and move on to something else that is more your flavor, in either case, making a fuss on the forums won't change anything.

[Einlanzer.1627]

I feel like a big part of the reason they released ascended was because they miscalibrated with exotic and it ended up being much easier to get than they anticipated. This is also why Rare feels like such a weird tier that's useless for anything other than salvaging/selling or getting the skins from.

 

So it was a mistake in a sense, but the mistake was more in how they botched rare and exotic tier acquisition difficulty rather than releasing Ascended, which was the only real way they could address that mistake.

[Game of Bones.8975]

I like the ascended gear; it's not soulbound, so if you make three sets (light, med, and heavy) you're good. I know each class needs their own stat combinations; they are just enough of a quest to make you feel you have met some goal, but still achievable by anyone given time; and you can change the stats in the Golden Toilet if you want. The skins are OK, but not the reason to craft them.

[Malediktus.9250]

Having no vertical progression after easy to get (compared to highend stats in other games) ascended tier was a mistake

 

Droves of people quit the game in boredom because they have all the cosmetics they want (and let's face it, most of the good stuff is from gemstore) and they feel like they can achieve nothing anymore.

[Einlanzer.1627]

> @"Malediktus.9250" said:

> Having no vertical progression after easy to get (compared to highend stats in other games) ascended tier was a mistake

>

> Droves of people quit the game in boredom because they have all the cosmetics they want (and let's face it, most of the good stuff is from gemstore) and they feel like they can achieve nothing anymore.

 

I kind of agree with this even though I personally don't love gear treadmills.

 

The paradox of vertical progression here is that while it isn't necessary to keep a strong player base, this is only true if the game world is designed in a sandboxy enough way that players can be entertained and occupied by other types of goals and pursuits (not just cosmetics). GW2 is a PvE game and is no more of a sandbox than WoW, so not having vertical progression likely did more harm than good.

[IndigoSundown.5419]

> @"Malediktus.9250" said:

> Having no vertical progression after easy to get (compared to highend stats in other games) ascended tier was a mistake

>

> Droves of people quit the game in boredom because they have all the cosmetics they want (and let's face it, most of the good stuff is from gemstore) and they feel like they can achieve nothing anymore.

 

To be fair, the original GW game had max stat gear that was easy to acquire, and droves of people played it with no such problems.

 

> @"STIHL.2489" said:

>

> Anyway.. it's not that I agree or disagree.. it's that this is what the game has now, it's not going to go away, so, you can either embrace that this is what is in the game and try to have fun with it, or you can let it ruin your game time and move on to something else that is more your flavor, in either case, making a fuss on the forums won't change anything.

 

Yeah, not gonna change at this late date. To be fair, though, Ascended was put into the game because people made a fuss on the forums.

[Einlanzer.1627]

> @"IndigoSundown.5419" said:

> > @"Malediktus.9250" said:

> > Having no vertical progression after easy to get (compared to highend stats in other games) ascended tier was a mistake

> >

> > Droves of people quit the game in boredom because they have all the cosmetics they want (and let's face it, most of the good stuff is from gemstore) and they feel like they can achieve nothing anymore.

>

> To be fair, the original GW game had max stat gear that was easy to acquire, and droves of people played it with no such problems.

>

> > @"STIHL.2489" said:

> >

> > Anyway.. it's not that I agree or disagree.. it's that this is what the game has now, it's not going to go away, so, you can either embrace that this is what is in the game and try to have fun with it, or you can let it ruin your game time and move on to something else that is more your flavor, in either case, making a fuss on the forums won't change anything.

>

> Yeah, not gonna change at this late date. To be fair, though, Ascended was put into the game because people made a fuss on the forums.

 

But that's because the original GW, at its core, was not a WoW-clone. It was fundamentally a PvP game and a story-driven RPG. The skill hunt system also replaced the need for gear progression, which is not something they designed into GW2.

 

GW2 was designed as a more typical MMO, and not having a really polished progression system is likely its most fatal flaw.

[STIHL.2489]

> @"IndigoSundown.5419" said:

> > @"STIHL.2489" said:

> >

> > Anyway.. it's not that I agree or disagree.. it's that this is what the game has now, it's not going to go away, so, you can either embrace that this is what is in the game and try to have fun with it, or you can let it ruin your game time and move on to something else that is more your flavor, in either case, making a fuss on the forums won't change anything.

>

> Yeah, not gonna change at this late date. To be fair, though, Ascended was put into the game because people made a fuss on the forums.

 

LOL, yah.. It's easier to get a new thing added, then it is to expect them to change the existing.

[Illconceived Was Na.9781]

> @"IndigoSundown.5419" said:

> To be fair, the original GW game had max stat gear that was easy to acquire, and droves of people played it with no such problems.

 

You're forgetting that any reasonable build also used GW1 insignias and inscriptions and runes. These were incredibly hard to obtain, much more difficult than ascended + upgrades in GW2

* Insignia improved the key stat(s) for skills

* Runes added health or mana, which most builds couldn't survive without.

* Inscriptions & weapon suffixes were required to get the most out of your build too, whether reducing cooldowns or adding to stats.

 

Of these, only the armor improvements were available from vendors, and at market prices. The meta versions were very, very expensive. Weapon upgrades (and even key stats on weapons themselves) were not easily available. I have a huge spreadsheet just to keep track of which vendor offers fire scepters or earth staves; the better bet was always to buy in Kamadan (Palawadan these days), which required hanging around until someone else had spares to sell.

 

tl;dr it's a myth that GW1 had easily-obtained max gear. You could easily obtain some type of L20 gear, yes. But when people discussed builds, it always included upgrades to said gear, and those upgrades were not always easy or cheap to acquire.

[IndigoSundown.5419]

> @"Einlanzer.1627" said:

> > @"IndigoSundown.5419" said:

> >

> > To be fair, the original GW game had max stat gear that was easy to acquire, and droves of people played it with no such problems.

>

> But that's because the original GW, at its core, was not a WoW-clone. It was fundamentally a PvP game and a story-driven RPG. The skill hunt system also replaced the need for gear progression, which is not something they designed into GW2.

>

> GW2 was designed as a more typical MMO, and not having a really polished progression system is likely its most fatal flaw.

 

For MMO fans, yeah. I remember that before launch MO put out a blog in which he said, "So if you love MMORPGs, you should check out Guild Wars 2. But if you hate traditional MMORPGs, then you should really check out Guild Wars 2." I won't say that the latter half of that was a failure, because different people have different tastes. For me, though, I would _much_ rather have seen a game more like GW than like an MMO.

 

> @"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said:

> > @"IndigoSundown.5419" said:

> > See above...

>

> You're forgetting that any reasonable build also used GW1 insignias and inscriptions and runes. These were incredibly hard to obtain, much more difficult than ascended + upgrades in GW2

> * Insignia improved the key stat(s) for skills

> * Runes added health or mana, which most builds couldn't survive without.

> * Inscriptions & weapon suffixes were required to get the most out of your build too, whether reducing cooldowns or adding to stats.

>

> Of these, only the armor improvements were available from vendors, and at market prices. The meta versions were very, very expensive. Weapon upgrades (and even key stats on weapons themselves) were not easily available. I have a huge spreadsheet just to keep track of which vendor offers fire scepters or earth staves; the better bet was always to buy in Kamadan (Palawadan these days), which required hanging around until someone else had spares to sell.

>

> tl;dr it's a myth that GW1 had easily-obtained max gear. You could easily obtain some type of L20 gear, yes. But when people discussed builds, it always included upgrades to said gear, and those upgrades were not always easy or cheap to acquire.

 

I forgot nothing. had none of the problems you had. So, while GW was not easy for _you_ to obtain max stat gear, it was for me. No myth, just different experiences -- kind of like we see in this game for Ascended. The difference for me was that the things I enjoyed doing in GW were rewarding, while in GW2 they just ... aren't.

[Illconceived Was Na.9781]

> @"IndigoSundown.5419" said:

> I forgot nothing. had none of the problems you had. So, while GW was not easy for _you_ to obtain max stat gear, it was for me. No myth, just different experiences -- kind of like we see in this game for Ascended. The difference for me was that the things I enjoyed doing in GW were rewarding, while in GW2 they just ... aren't.

 

How did you obtain your weapons? Where did you get the prefixes & suffixes for them?

You might have enjoyed your experience (as I did); you might even prefer it. But that doesn't change the mechanics: to obtain a build-relevant set of gear in GW1 required more than just obtaining L20 armor. That part was trivial, sure.

 

Obtaining the prefixes and suffixes for the armor was easy (just visit a vendor), but often it was expensive. There were frequently forum posts (GW1 official forums, when those existed, as well as GW Guru etc) sites full of complaints about the costs of various _Runes of Superior [attribute]_. _Superior Vigor_ runes were also priced high for most of the game's history. Were you able to afford them all? Do you think that everyone was able to afford them?

 

For weapons... where did you obtain the ones with the primary stats you wanted? From where did you obtain your staff heads and wrappings? How did you get the inscriptions that you wanted? Did you choose _Aptitude Not Attitude_ or _Hale & Hearty_?

 

And did you notice how the prices were affected when ANet introduced 7-Hero teams and later mercenaries?

 

Again, the point isn't whether the system was enjoyable or not. People have claimed that it was simpler and cheaper than GW2 and that's only true if the only concern is max-level gear, and one ignores the upgrades that everyone considered to be essential to build-appropriate gear.

[IndigoSundown.5419]

> @"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said:

> > @"IndigoSundown.5419" said:

> > I forgot nothing. had none of the problems you had. So, while GW was not easy for _you_ to obtain max stat gear, it was for me. No myth, just different experiences -- kind of like we see in this game for Ascended. The difference for me was that the things I enjoyed doing in GW were rewarding, while in GW2 they just ... aren't.

>

> How did you obtain your weapons? Where did you get the prefixes & suffixes for them?

> You might have enjoyed your experience (as I did); you might even prefer it. But that doesn't change the mechanics: to obtain a build-relevant set of gear in GW1 required more than just obtaining L20 armor. That part was trivial, sure.

>

> Obtaining the prefixes and suffixes for the armor was easy (just visit a vendor), but often it was expensive. There were frequently forum posts (GW1 official forums, when those existed, as well as GW Guru etc) sites full of complaints about the costs of various _Runes of Superior [attribute]_. _Superior Vigor_ runes were also priced high for most of the game's history. Were you able to afford them all? Do you think that everyone was able to afford them?

>

> For weapons... where did you obtain the ones with the primary stats you wanted? From where did you obtain your staff heads and wrappings? How did you get the inscriptions that you wanted? Did you choose _Aptitude Not Attitude_ or _Hale & Hearty_?

>

> And did you notice how the prices were affected when ANet introduced 7-Hero teams and later mercenaries?

>

> Again, the point isn't whether the system was enjoyable or not. People have claimed that it was simpler and cheaper than GW2 and that's only true if the only concern is max-level gear, and one ignores the upgrades that everyone considered to be essential to build-appropriate gear.

 

I got all of those things by playing the game. I had enough of all of it to outfit over 20 characters, plus many more Heroes (some of the Heroes made do with 14 over 20 inscriptions and the like). I still have some of that stuff in my Xunlai chest or on mules. I play GW2 and all I get is salvage bait. I got plenty of salvagables in GW, also, but it seems -- with some exceptions -- that's about _all_ I get in GW2.

[Ashen.2907]

> @"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said:

> > @"IndigoSundown.5419" said:

> > To be fair, the original GW game had max stat gear that was easy to acquire, and droves of people played it with no such problems.

>

> You're forgetting that any reasonable build also used GW1 insignias and inscriptions and runes. These were incredibly hard to obtain, much more difficult than ascended + upgrades in GW2

> * Insignia improved the key stat(s) for skills

> * Runes added health or mana, which most builds couldn't survive without.

> * Inscriptions & weapon suffixes were required to get the most out of your build too, whether reducing cooldowns or adding to stats.

>

> Of these, only the armor improvements were available from vendors, and at market prices. The meta versions were very, very expensive. Weapon upgrades (and even key stats on weapons themselves) were not easily available. I have a huge spreadsheet just to keep track of which vendor offers fire scepters or earth staves; the better bet was always to buy in Kamadan (Palawadan these days), which required hanging around until someone else had spares to sell.

>

> tl;dr it's a myth that GW1 had easily-obtained max gear. You could easily obtain some type of L20 gear, yes. But when people discussed builds, it always included upgrades to said gear, and those upgrades were not always easy or cheap to acquire.

 

I found all of the gear components in GW1 builds to be easy to acquire. I had several characters with multiple sets of fully tricked out gear for a variety of builds. I managed this before the game's third birthday. Equiping my heroes occurred within a fairly short window after completing Nightfall (my main's heroes were kitted out almost immediately). I dont have a single character fully outfitted in ascended after 5+ years in GW2.