World Restructuring

[Warrior.5347]

> @"joneirikb.7506" said:

> > @"Warrior.5347" said:

> > I think being able to join multiple guilds across multiple servers is dumb in the first place, change my mind.

>

> If disregarding the "across multiple servers" part, then:

>

> It really is up to each individual person how to deal and think about it. Some want to join 1 guild and stay in it, others likes to have different guilds for different things etc. A lot of people enjoys having a personal bank guild, or a personal friend guild, besides being part of a larger community guild etc.

>

> With the "across multiple servers" part:

>

> This changes things a little, thing is that you can still stick to what you prefer/enjoy for yourself. I have several guild mates that are part of multiple guilds over multiple servers, because they enjoy fighting and dueling each others. In that regard they really use the extra guilds more like "extended friend lists", without having to add multiple 20+ man guilds worth of players to friend list. In that regard it works pretty well.

>

> I always thought the largest problem was that you could join a guild in pve (etc) and end up not being on the same world in WvW. But that is something they're actually planning to fix with this change.

 

My thing is the paradox of choice too many options can make a person spoiled as to not having to sacrifice or work towards anything. I understand the guild bank guild, that's not the issue. People seem to want their cake and eat it too keeping their 5 guilds for 5 different things to hang out with maybe 10 people, rather focusing in developing a single identity in a multifaceted or single purpose guild. That's real work and community imo.

[Warrior.5347]

> @"SkyShroud.2865" said:

> > @"Warrior.5347" said:

> > > @"SkyShroud.2865" said:

> > > > @"Warrior.5347" said:

> > > > I think being able to join multiple guilds across multiple servers is dumb in the first place, change my mind.

> > >

> > > i think that able to join multi guilds in the first place is casual

> > > then again, what mind did you change?

> >

> > I'm here to get my mind changed, not to change minds. It sounds rather unintuitive and spoiled from all the complaints here.

>

> > @"Warrior.5347" said:

> > > @"SkyShroud.2865" said:

> > > > @"Warrior.5347" said:

> > > > I think being able to join multiple guilds across multiple servers is dumb in the first place, change my mind.

> > >

> > > i think that able to join multi guilds in the first place is casual

> > > then again, what mind did you change?

> >

> > I'm here to get my mind changed, not to change minds. It sounds rather unintuitive and spoiled from all the complaints here.

>

> EOS peeps used to have people questioning about multi guild system and how it will affect social cohesiveness.

>

> But your question is about multi guild in same servers. I don't see the point. Firstly, the game isn't about just WvW.

 

No my statement includes across multiple servers too. Its not all about WvW you are right, but the conundrum of using multi guild, multi server as earth shatteting reasons not to switch seems selfish and the system itself seems to have made some people complacent. In all it seems to be a choice of dead game mode losing WvW players or a new way of life with a revived game mode that we can and will all adapt to.

[SkyShroud.2865]

> @"Warrior.5347" said:

> > @"SkyShroud.2865" said:

> > > @"Warrior.5347" said:

> > > > @"SkyShroud.2865" said:

> > > > > @"Warrior.5347" said:

> > > > > I think being able to join multiple guilds across multiple servers is dumb in the first place, change my mind.

> > > >

> > > > i think that able to join multi guilds in the first place is casual

> > > > then again, what mind did you change?

> > >

> > > I'm here to get my mind changed, not to change minds. It sounds rather unintuitive and spoiled from all the complaints here.

> >

> > > @"Warrior.5347" said:

> > > > @"SkyShroud.2865" said:

> > > > > @"Warrior.5347" said:

> > > > > I think being able to join multiple guilds across multiple servers is dumb in the first place, change my mind.

> > > >

> > > > i think that able to join multi guilds in the first place is casual

> > > > then again, what mind did you change?

> > >

> > > I'm here to get my mind changed, not to change minds. It sounds rather unintuitive and spoiled from all the complaints here.

> >

> > EOS peeps used to have people questioning about multi guild system and how it will affect social cohesiveness.

> >

> > But your question is about multi guild in same servers. I don't see the point. Firstly, the game isn't about just WvW.

>

> No my statement includes across multiple servers too. Its not all about WvW you are right, but the conundrum of using multi guild, multi server as earth shatteting reasons not to switch seems selfish and the system itself seems to have made some people complacent. In all it seems to be a choice of dead game mode losing WvW players or a new way of life with a revived game mode that we can and will all adapt to.

 

Same difference. Half full vs half empty.

 

Gw2 is a muilt guild system, the players in gw2 already take on the culture of multi guilds system and sadly enough, the culture isn't a competitive culture because that is how a multi guilds system is. Multi guilds system first and foremost, destroy the immersion of a game from a guild perspective and with that, it destroys everything that come alongside with it. It is funny to me how many people can talk about guild pride when they are mercenaries of different guilds. In any case, the many gw2 populations are multi guilds cultured and thus are decisions and thought processes, kinda twisted, kinda wrapped.

[Dawdler.8521]

> @"Warrior.5347" said:

> > @"joneirikb.7506" said:

> > > @"Warrior.5347" said:

> > > I think being able to join multiple guilds across multiple servers is dumb in the first place, change my mind.

> >

> > If disregarding the "across multiple servers" part, then:

> >

> > It really is up to each individual person how to deal and think about it. Some want to join 1 guild and stay in it, others likes to have different guilds for different things etc. A lot of people enjoys having a personal bank guild, or a personal friend guild, besides being part of a larger community guild etc.

> >

> > With the "across multiple servers" part:

> >

> > This changes things a little, thing is that you can still stick to what you prefer/enjoy for yourself. I have several guild mates that are part of multiple guilds over multiple servers, because they enjoy fighting and dueling each others. In that regard they really use the extra guilds more like "extended friend lists", without having to add multiple 20+ man guilds worth of players to friend list. In that regard it works pretty well.

> >

> > I always thought the largest problem was that you could join a guild in pve (etc) and end up not being on the same world in WvW. But that is something they're actually planning to fix with this change.

>

> My thing is the paradox of choice too many options can make a person spoiled as to not having to sacrifice or work towards anything. I understand the guild bank guild, that's not the issue. People seem to want their cake and eat it too keeping their 5 guilds for 5 different things to hang out with maybe 10 people, rather focusing in developing a single identity in a multifaceted or single purpose guild. That's real work and community imo.

That's not community, that would be the game basicly saying "oh you like WvW? Well then you cant like raiding because you are only allowed to be in a WvW guild or a raiding guild, not both" or "you want to join an sPvP focused guild? Sooooorry you are already part of a PvE guild... leave that. Now. Kitten your friends, you'll get new ones."

 

Anet chose to make the game *accessable* and IMO its a much, much better game for it.

 

[Euryon.9248]

> @"Warrior.5347" said:

> > @"SkyShroud.2865" said:

> > > @"Warrior.5347" said:

> > > > @"SkyShroud.2865" said:

> > > > > @"Warrior.5347" said:

> > > > > I think being able to join multiple guilds across multiple servers is dumb in the first place, change my mind.

> > > >

> > > > i think that able to join multi guilds in the first place is casual

> > > > then again, what mind did you change?

> > >

> > > I'm here to get my mind changed, not to change minds. It sounds rather unintuitive and spoiled from all the complaints here.

> >

> > > @"Warrior.5347" said:

> > > > @"SkyShroud.2865" said:

> > > > > @"Warrior.5347" said:

> > > > > I think being able to join multiple guilds across multiple servers is dumb in the first place, change my mind.

> > > >

> > > > i think that able to join multi guilds in the first place is casual

> > > > then again, what mind did you change?

> > >

> > > I'm here to get my mind changed, not to change minds. It sounds rather unintuitive and spoiled from all the complaints here.

> >

> > EOS peeps used to have people questioning about multi guild system and how it will affect social cohesiveness.

> >

> > But your question is about multi guild in same servers. I don't see the point. Firstly, the game isn't about just WvW.

>

> No my statement includes across multiple servers too. Its not all about WvW you are right, but the conundrum of using multi guild, multi server as earth shatteting reasons not to switch seems selfish and the system itself seems to have made some people complacent. In all it seems to be a choice of dead game mode losing WvW players or a new way of life with a revived game mode that we can and will all adapt to.

 

I'm not really understanding this. Different guilds have different foci. I have friends that wvw and only wvw. I want to run wvw with them. But I also want to do PvE with other friends, and maybe raid or do fractals with guilds focused on those things. I'm not "diluted" nor is my "culture" somehow contaminated because I choose to have multiple interests and multiple guilds focused on those various interests.

 

The only instance I can really see is the one of having multiple *wvw* guilds across multiple servers, which I will agree seems silly and somewhat contradictory.

[SkyShroud.2865]

He mentioned "multifaceted or single purpose guild". Something gamers that played for more than a decade can easily understand but others may find it hard to.

 

If I were to put it into logic and science. I would use Dunbar's number and define community.

 

Community, in general speaking, is a group of people having thus working towards a common goal or values or beliefs, and helping each other along the way. Dunbar's number is a theory on the cognitive limit on numbers of people regards to stable social relationships.

 

In the old days of mmorpg, many, if not all guilds are multifaceted. Some may be a bit more pvp or pve oriented but nevertheless, multifaceted (pvx) by default. Most of the old mmorpgs guilds have very low capacity, capping slightly more than 100. This, according to Dunbar's number, is the minimum max amount of people that you can form a stable social relationships with; we have to consider real life relationships as well. With that say, you can see that the old mmorpgs emphasis strongly on guild community and bonds.

 

Now, moving on to the multi guilds culture. The boundary of multifaceted become blurred. Multifaceted players will join a single purpose guild even if the common interest is different by default, the multifaceted players' interests is not the same as single interest players. It may overlap but definitely not the same. Still, you might think it isn't a issue because the multifaceted players still can do the same thing as the single interest players. However, that will eventually put the community to test because of the Dunbar's number. Multifaceted players will join multiple guilds, not just one. You can even say he is in multiple communities. This means that multifaceted players cannot, by theory, manage to maintain stable social relationships for all the communities he is part of. Not only that, the communities he is part of may have conflicts in activities thus he will choose to forgo one to join the other activities at that point or many points of time. After those, can he really be considered as member of the community by definition and Dunbar's number?

 

The same applies for single purpose players joining multifaceted guild or multiple single purpose guilds, and multifaceted players joining multifaceted guilds for a single purpose.

 

Regardless, gw2 is multi guilds culture, nothing gonna change.

 

Source

What is community? - http://appalachianmagazine.org/podcasts/dave/id/449

Dunbar's Number - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunbar%27s_number

[Dawdler.8521]

> @"SkyShroud.2865" said:

> He mentioned "multifaceted or single purpose guild". Something gamers that played for more than a decade can easily understand but others may find it hard to.

>

> If I were to put it into logic and science. I would use Dunbar's number and define community.

>

> Community, in general speaking, is a group of people having thus working towards a common goal or values or beliefs, and helping each other along the way. Dunbar's number is a theory on the cognitive limit on numbers of people regards to stable social relationships.

>

> In the old days of mmorpg, many, if not all guilds are multifaceted. Some may be a bit more pvp or pve oriented but nevertheless, multifaceted (pvx) by default. Most of the old mmorpgs guilds have very low capacity, capping slightly more than 100. This, according to Dunbar's number, is the minimum max amount of people that you can form a stable social relationships with; we have to consider real life relationships as well. With that say, you can see that the old mmorpgs emphasis strongly on guild community and bonds.

>

> Now, moving on to the multi guilds culture. The boundary of multifaceted become blurred. Multifaceted players will join a single purpose guild even if the common interest is different by default, the multifaceted players' interests is not the same as single interest players. It may overlap but definitely not the same. Still, you might think it isn't a issue because the multifaceted players still can do the same thing as the single interest players. However, that will eventually put the community to test because of the Dunbar's number. Multifaceted players will join multiple guilds, not just one. You can even say he is in multiple communities. This means that multifaceted players cannot, by theory, manage to maintain stable social relationships for all the communities he is part of. Not only that, the communities he is part of may have conflicts in activities thus he will choose to forgo one to join the other activities at that point or many points of time. After those, can he really be considered as member of the community by definition and Dunbar's number?

>

> The same applies for single purpose players joining multifaceted guild or multiple single purpose guilds, and multifaceted players joining multifaceted guilds for a single purpose.

>

> Regardless, gw2 is multi guilds culture, nothing gonna change.

>

> Source

> What is community? - http://appalachianmagazine.org/podcasts/dave/id/449

> Dunbar's Number - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunbar%27s_number

TL;DR you can still join only one 100 man guild if you want to, nothing is forcing you to join multiple guilds.

 

But it really doesnt matter how one argue here, when someone say "change my mind" that means they have already made up their mind and never gonna change their mind.

[Warrior.5347]

> @"Dawdler.8521" said:

> > @"SkyShroud.2865" said:

> > He mentioned "multifaceted or single purpose guild". Something gamers that played for more than a decade can easily understand but others may find it hard to.

> >

> > If I were to put it into logic and science. I would use Dunbar's number and define community.

> >

> > Community, in general speaking, is a group of people having thus working towards a common goal or values or beliefs, and helping each other along the way. Dunbar's number is a theory on the cognitive limit on numbers of people regards to stable social relationships.

> >

> > In the old days of mmorpg, many, if not all guilds are multifaceted. Some may be a bit more pvp or pve oriented but nevertheless, multifaceted (pvx) by default. Most of the old mmorpgs guilds have very low capacity, capping slightly more than 100. This, according to Dunbar's number, is the minimum max amount of people that you can form a stable social relationships with; we have to consider real life relationships as well. With that say, you can see that the old mmorpgs emphasis strongly on guild community and bonds.

> >

> > Now, moving on to the multi guilds culture. The boundary of multifaceted become blurred. Multifaceted players will join a single purpose guild even if the common interest is different by default, the multifaceted players' interests is not the same as single interest players. It may overlap but definitely not the same. Still, you might think it isn't a issue because the multifaceted players still can do the same thing as the single interest players. However, that will eventually put the community to test because of the Dunbar's number. Multifaceted players will join multiple guilds, not just one. You can even say he is in multiple communities. This means that multifaceted players cannot, by theory, manage to maintain stable social relationships for all the communities he is part of. Not only that, the communities he is part of may have conflicts in activities thus he will choose to forgo one to join the other activities at that point or many points of time. After those, can he really be considered as member of the community by definition and Dunbar's number?

> >

> > The same applies for single purpose players joining multifaceted guild or multiple single purpose guilds, and multifaceted players joining multifaceted guilds for a single purpose.

> >

> > Regardless, gw2 is multi guilds culture, nothing gonna change.

> >

> > Source

> > What is community? - http://appalachianmagazine.org/podcasts/dave/id/449

> > Dunbar's Number - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunbar%27s_number

> TL;DR you can still join only one 100 man guild if you want to, nothing is forcing you to join multiple guilds.

>

> But it really doesnt matter how one argue here, when someone say "change my mind" that means they have already made up their mind and never gonna change their mind.

 

Certainly everyone can do as they so choose it's the game mechanic which goes back to my origional post being dumb and spoiled players into complacency and casual af. Not hating on regular casuals hence the "af". I see players have become literal and metaphorical "kittens", lol. Rawr. However, my gripe isnt with the hardcore or the casual its more the mechanic and it's effects to my understanding.

 

Part of the change my mind bit is sort of a troll, my mind can change based on good reasoning, of which I haven't read any yet. Only thing that makes a lot of sense are SkyShrouds' posts. I won't change people's mind either. I'm just creating a bit of discord from the generalized for and against arguments of the restructuring.

 

Being a veteran MMO player I have and can see both sides so don't see me as an elitist and refer to my first two paragraphs and read it in it's entirety.

[Dawdler.8521]

> @"Warrior.5347" said:

> Certainly everyone can do as they so choose it's the game mechanic which goes back to my origional post being dumb and spoiled players into complacency and casual af. Not hating on regular casuals hence the "af". I see players have become literal and metaphorical "kittens", lol. Rawr. However, my gripe isnt with the hardcore or the casual its more the mechanic and it's effects to my understanding.

>

> Part of the change my mind bit is sort of a troll, my mind can change based on good reasoning, of which I haven't read any yet. Only thing that makes a lot of sense are SkyShrouds' posts. I won't change people's mind either. I'm just creating a bit of discord from the generalized for and against arguments of the restructuring.

>

> Being a veteran MMO player I have and can see both sides so don't see me as an elitist and refer to my first two paragraphs and read it in it's entirety.

If you can see both sides and the current mechanics of the guilds system already allow you to do either way you desire on how guilds should work then what does it matter? Imposing your restrictions of what a guild should be on the general population and on the basis that "multiple guilds are dumb" is neither a for or against argument of the WvW restructure.

[Warrior.5347]

> @"Dawdler.8521" said:

> > @"Warrior.5347" said:

> > Certainly everyone can do as they so choose it's the game mechanic which goes back to my origional post being dumb and spoiled players into complacency and casual af. Not hating on regular casuals hence the "af". I see players have become literal and metaphorical "kittens", lol. Rawr. However, my gripe isnt with the hardcore or the casual its more the mechanic and it's effects to my understanding.

> >

> > Part of the change my mind bit is sort of a troll, my mind can change based on good reasoning, of which I haven't read any yet. Only thing that makes a lot of sense are SkyShrouds' posts. I won't change people's mind either. I'm just creating a bit of discord from the generalized for and against arguments of the restructuring.

> >

> > Being a veteran MMO player I have and can see both sides so don't see me as an elitist and refer to my first two paragraphs and read it in it's entirety.

> If you can see both sides and the current mechanics of the guilds system already allow you to do either way you desire on how guilds should work then what does it matter? Imposing your restrictions of what a guild should be on the general population and on the basis that "multiple guilds are dumb" is neither a for or against argument of the WvW restructure.

 

Just because I can see both sides doesn't mean I can't lean to one side. It matters because that seems to be an against the argument for the restructuring of woe is my community and woe is my server and woe is my pve, pvx, roam, rp, pvp, raiding, wvw guilds all across different guilds seems non-sensical. The mechanic and its effects are what I am trying to better understand and my current understanding is that it's dumb and made the community not have to put forth any effort into actually creating an actual guild community or give the illusion of community as a whole in the context of Guild Wars 2. I don't know how many times I have to repeat myself or extrapolate and elaborate the same points. It's not my personal belief of restrictions, single guild joins are an actual game mechanic across every single MMORPG, GW2 is the only multi-guild system to my knowledge and yeah I again think it was dumb to have that mechanic in the first place and made things much more complicated for what is trying to do now.

 

I think when a new world is formed it should just bring you and your whole guild into the world. If you guild is pvx mark it PVX to be matched with other similar sized PVX guilds if your guild only PvEs mark it so and be matched with other sizable PvE guilds and WvW can just be an aside. If you your guild is prepared to WvW mark it for WvW to compete. That way no one is forcing anyone to play WvW or make the change WvW centered.

[Redponey.8352]

Any News? any deadlines? :(

[Euryon.9248]

> @"Warrior.5347" said:

> > @"Dawdler.8521" said:

> > > @"Warrior.5347" said:

> > > Certainly everyone can do as they so choose it's the game mechanic which goes back to my origional post being dumb and spoiled players into complacency and casual af. Not hating on regular casuals hence the "af". I see players have become literal and metaphorical "kittens", lol. Rawr. However, my gripe isnt with the hardcore or the casual its more the mechanic and it's effects to my understanding.

> > >

> > > Part of the change my mind bit is sort of a troll, my mind can change based on good reasoning, of which I haven't read any yet. Only thing that makes a lot of sense are SkyShrouds' posts. I won't change people's mind either. I'm just creating a bit of discord from the generalized for and against arguments of the restructuring.

> > >

> > > Being a veteran MMO player I have and can see both sides so don't see me as an elitist and refer to my first two paragraphs and read it in it's entirety.

> > If you can see both sides and the current mechanics of the guilds system already allow you to do either way you desire on how guilds should work then what does it matter? Imposing your restrictions of what a guild should be on the general population and on the basis that "multiple guilds are dumb" is neither a for or against argument of the WvW restructure.

>

>That way no one is forcing anyone to play WvW or make the change WvW centered.

>

 

No one is or ever will "force" someone to play WvW, nor will the change in worlds force someone who doesn't want to wvw suddenly have to start playing wvw. That statement makes no sense to me.

 

The change *is* wvw centered, as it should be. The only effect it will have on non-wvwers is that they will need a new mechanic for grouping RP'ers with other RP'ers when the load into PvE maps. Outside of that, this change has nothing to do with either PvP or PvE.

 

I really don't understand your issue with the multiple guild structure. I like that we can have multiple guilds and I don't care what other MMOs do or do not allow. I like being able to see callouts in one guild for a Spirit Vale run while another guild is talking about SMC and a third is looking for T4 fractal buddies. That gives me options and makes my gaming experience richer. Forcing me to choose only one of those guilds to participate in would be a negative, not a positive.

 

[Warrior.5347]

> @"Euryon.9248" said:

> > @"Warrior.5347" said:

> > > @"Dawdler.8521" said:

> > > > @"Warrior.5347" said:

> > > > Certainly everyone can do as they so choose it's the game mechanic which goes back to my origional post being dumb and spoiled players into complacency and casual af. Not hating on regular casuals hence the "af". I see players have become literal and metaphorical "kittens", lol. Rawr. However, my gripe isnt with the hardcore or the casual its more the mechanic and it's effects to my understanding.

> > > >

> > > > Part of the change my mind bit is sort of a troll, my mind can change based on good reasoning, of which I haven't read any yet. Only thing that makes a lot of sense are SkyShrouds' posts. I won't change people's mind either. I'm just creating a bit of discord from the generalized for and against arguments of the restructuring.

> > > >

> > > > Being a veteran MMO player I have and can see both sides so don't see me as an elitist and refer to my first two paragraphs and read it in it's entirety.

> > > If you can see both sides and the current mechanics of the guilds system already allow you to do either way you desire on how guilds should work then what does it matter? Imposing your restrictions of what a guild should be on the general population and on the basis that "multiple guilds are dumb" is neither a for or against argument of the WvW restructure.

> >

> >That way no one is forcing anyone to play WvW or make the change WvW centered.

> >

>

> No one is or ever will "force" someone to play WvW, nor will the change in worlds force someone who doesn't want to wvw suddenly have to start playing wvw. That statement makes no sense to me.

>

> The change *is* wvw centered, as it should be. The only effect it will have on non-wvwers is that they will need a new mechanic for grouping RP'ers with other RP'ers when the load into PvE maps. Outside of that, this change has nothing to do with either PvP or PvE.

>

> I really don't understand your issue with the multiple guild structure. I like that we can have multiple guilds and I don't care what other MMOs do or do not allow. I like being able to see callouts in one guild for a Spirit Vale run while another guild is talking about SMC and a third is looking for T4 fractal buddies. That gives me options and makes my gaming experience richer. Forcing me to choose only one of those guilds to participate in would be a negative, not a positive.

>

 

I'm mainly referring to people who are using the multi-guild system and their "communities" across multiple guilds and multiple servers as an against argument for the WvW restructure in which they do feel forced to WvW and like everything revolves around WvW now and they the casuals would be torn asunder. I don't care what the mechanic is or could or should be or for it to change, my point is that it's dumb when used as a negative to the restructuring. Like you said it doesn't matter or affect the player at all as you have mentioned. You are right it does and can diversify and expand your experince which is great I'm not trying to limit you. But as I said formerly people be like woe my 5 guilds across 5 servers would be torn apart by the restructuring, which I think is dumb and makes the multi-guild mechanic dumb if it worked like that.

[Lord of the Fire.6870]

> @"SkyShroud.2865" said:

> He mentioned "multifaceted or single purpose guild". Something gamers that played for more than a decade can easily understand but others may find it hard to.

>

> If I were to put it into logic and science. I would use Dunbar's number and define community.

>

> Community, in general speaking, is a group of people having thus working towards a common goal or values or beliefs, and helping each other along the way. Dunbar's number is a theory on the cognitive limit on numbers of people regards to stable social relationships.

>

> In the old days of mmorpg, many, if not all guilds are multifaceted. Some may be a bit more pvp or pve oriented but nevertheless, multifaceted (pvx) by default. Most of the old mmorpgs guilds have very low capacity, capping slightly more than 100. This, according to Dunbar's number, is the minimum max amount of people that you can form a stable social relationships with; we have to consider real life relationships as well. With that say, you can see that the old mmorpgs emphasis strongly on guild community and bonds.

>

> Now, moving on to the multi guilds culture. The boundary of multifaceted become blurred. Multifaceted players will join a single purpose guild even if the common interest is different by default, the multifaceted players' interests is not the same as single interest players. It may overlap but definitely not the same. Still, you might think it isn't a issue because the multifaceted players still can do the same thing as the single interest players. However, that will eventually put the community to test because of the Dunbar's number. Multifaceted players will join multiple guilds, not just one. You can even say he is in multiple communities. This means that multifaceted players cannot, by theory, manage to maintain stable social relationships for all the communities he is part of. Not only that, the communities he is part of may have conflicts in activities thus he will choose to forgo one to join the other activities at that point or many points of time. After those, can he really be considered as member of the community by definition and Dunbar's number?

>

> The same applies for single purpose players joining multifaceted guild or multiple single purpose guilds, and multifaceted players joining multifaceted guilds for a single purpose.

>

> Regardless, gw2 is multi guilds culture, nothing gonna change.

>

> Source

> What is community? - http://appalachianmagazine.org/podcasts/dave/id/449

> Dunbar's Number - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunbar%27s_number

 

Its a bit late as always with me^^

 

I can only set a point how I see it somethings may not be usually like in other guilds/servers

 

The first thing is I'm only in 1 guild this is because I know the guilds leaders from real life and in other MMO I was this system didn't existed some of our guild leaders are in other guilds too but this is just for using their stuff exception is Jenny who plays in other Guilds for RP.

 

I was also once a guild leader from there I can say more then 10 you can't bind to your guild directly others will just feel to be left out except someone of you 10 other people taking care off them.

 

Wvw on our sever is very closed up its a community inside the server which borrows the server name. They are all in one Teamspeak server with this I mean all the WvW Guilds don't get me wrong they have public zergs from time to time but their are more then often discussion about the TS use because for the public channel you need to register to see them and everyone in it. This can to led to things like I experienced and you wander many weeks around and thinking how hard you can be trolled by those guys not knowing it. ~.~

 

I know why because off spies and not pleased people but those will always find a way in but the next topic with it is the day I ran with some and was in the TS I can only say there is a certain amount of alcohol consume in WvW you also see this in the team chats from time to time.

 

This brings me up to the question how on earth should random wvw players who do this for skins and some stuff for the guild or whatever play with those guys with the new system it can be only be worse.

 

In some way this is also maybe a explanation why the numbers of active wvw is peer server is so different (In opposite to they just lost too much)

[Dawdler.8521]

> @"Lord of the Fire.6870" said:

> This brings me up to the question how on earth should random wvw players who do this for skins and some stuff for the guild or whatever play with those guys with the new system it can be only be worse.

 

Are you suggesting that just like what happens every single day now with commanders saying "open tag on home bl, join ts.server.com!" to randoms on the map (or in teamchat)... cant possibly happen after the restructure... because reasons?

 

The only practical change that will occur - since its still the *same people playing* - is that the message change to ts.alliance.com. If they even bother changing it. I am fairly sure some servers now will just reform as community guilds/alliances under the same name.

 

 

[Lord of the Fire.6870]

> @"Dawdler.8521" said:

> > @"Lord of the Fire.6870" said:

> > This brings me up to the question how on earth should random wvw players who do this for skins and some stuff for the guild or whatever play with those guys with the new system it can be only be worse.

>

> Are you suggesting that just like what happens every single day now with commanders saying "open tag on home bl, join ts.server.com!" to randoms on the map (or in teamchat)... cant possibly happen after the restructure... because reasons?

>

> The only practical change that will occur - since its still the *same people playing* - is that the message change to ts.alliance.com. If they even bother changing it. I am fairly sure some servers now will just reform as community guilds/alliances under the same name.

>

>

 

No what I'm saying with this is if I remember correctly randoms who wan't to play wvw will randomly added to a running fraction. What I mean with this is the line between wvw community players and the rest of the players become even more pronounced so new players will have a hard time to join them also alliances can fly apart so what are you doing then ?

[Dawdler.8521]

> @"Lord of the Fire.6870" said:

> > @"Dawdler.8521" said:

> > > @"Lord of the Fire.6870" said:

> > > This brings me up to the question how on earth should random wvw players who do this for skins and some stuff for the guild or whatever play with those guys with the new system it can be only be worse.

> >

> > Are you suggesting that just like what happens every single day now with commanders saying "open tag on home bl, join ts.server.com!" to randoms on the map (or in teamchat)... cant possibly happen after the restructure... because reasons?

> >

> > The only practical change that will occur - since its still the *same people playing* - is that the message change to ts.alliance.com. If they even bother changing it. I am fairly sure some servers now will just reform as community guilds/alliances under the same name.

> >

> >

>

> No what I'm saying with this is if I remember correctly randoms who wan't to play wvw will randomly added to a running fraction. What I mean with this is the line between wvw community players and the rest of the players become even more pronounced so new players will have a hard time to join them also alliances can fly apart so what are you doing then ?

 

But will it hurt randoms? Just look at EoTM. Yeah its not WvW and of course its pretty pointless since pips was introduced, but its "allied" color matchup didnt stop people from playing it for years. It never hurt randoms despite people just randomly joining. It probably had more randoms than WvW.

 

The main flaw with EoTM is that it isnt real WvW and only got one instanced map, making it impossible to organize for servers and guilds. Not to mention the volatile nature of color based sides, they change every week.

 

Guess what system takes this concept, make it real WvW, add functions for organizing players and guilds and extend the life of generated sides to 8 weeks?

[SkyShroud.2865]

I actually have a hard time understanding what are being said.

[keramatzmode.1906]

Do people even read the full post?

You get to assign **ONE** . **ONE WvW GUILD** . WvW guilds are objective focused, they log on their primary active time, and have a purpose. To win wvw, and most of the time, they always to 100% rep it. And crux of the problem being people in your server are mixed in skills, people who hates bringing workable zerg, and people who do not want to join teamspeak. With the server merge, it made more problems since they had to hand out and revoke teamspeak/discord permissions every time the server merge changes. This again, create a "team" without a permanent voice servers, and a place to communicate.

 

People cry about the "community" or whatever to be lost. They are _never lost_, you guys just didn't care much about it. But I can say, some of the more top tier servers, the commanders and guild leaders, have already_ planned ahead with their communities_ for the upcoming alliance. Because they _care_ about this game mode. The community never went away, its just you who never cared about it in the first place until anet proposes an alliance system. Unless, you are scared of being left out because you can't do your solo things in the first place, like playing around without contributing to win and only cares about pips.

 

Problem with WvW guilds to recruit new people, is due to the server merge changing, and sometimes me included, hates to run with a guild after a certain while with their culture, and had to change servers to join another guild. Not to mention the gem prices to team up with other guilds and to perform better in WvW.

 

This system can give a drive to the alliances, to perform better and probably have a leaderboard system.

 

I can theorise that, this split system allows you to rep automatically upon logging into WvW maps. It won't ruin any kind of you multifacet pvx guild that you join to prance around discord and guild chat to get on top of the guild social hierarchy. And pretty sure anet will add different typology setup of guilds later on such as PvP and PvE.

[Eurantien.4632]

For those worried about this killing their server communities, just like there is a button to have a guild be your WvW guild and you're more likely to play with them could there also be a "server" button? That way people who use that would be more likely to be paired with people from their own server in the algorithm? Thus maintaining a sense of community for some

 

Or just make that the default?

[Dawdler.8521]

> @"keramatzmode.1906" said:

> I can theorise that, this split system allows you to rep automatically upon logging into WvW maps.

 

Why would you need that? As Anet described it, guild rep has nothing to do with your set WvW guild. Either you rep your guild... or you dont. Just like now.

[Strider Pj.2193]

> @"Dawdler.8521" said:

> > @"keramatzmode.1906" said:

> > I can theorise that, this split system allows you to rep automatically upon logging into WvW maps.

>

> Why would you need that? As Anet described it, guild rep has nothing to do with your set WvW guild. Either you rep your guild... or you dont. Just like now.

 

Exactly.

As it should be. Repping a guild may have more to do with upgrades and guild priorities for claiming.

[ShionKreth.1542]

How about one or more 'static' worlds that don't reassign you a new server every two months - for people who like having a server community and couldn't care less about wvw? Worst case scenario it'd just show how many people prefer a stable world and don't want to be shuffled around every two months, best case scenario... everyone's happy?

[Dawdler.8521]

> @"ShionKreth.1542" said:

> How about one or more 'static' worlds that don't reassign you a new server every two months - for people who like having a server community and couldn't care less about wvw? Worst case scenario it'd just show how many people prefer a stable world and don't want to be shuffled around every two months, best case scenario... everyone's happy?

You mean like a large amount of people thats always the same when joining WvW, a community?

 

... thats an alliance.

 

You are describing an alliance.

[Jumpin Lumpix.6108]

I will def be quitting wvw once this is implemented and I play quite a bit. Too bad but I just don't want to play without server cohesion and guilds/alliances don't cut it, especially if I don't get into any.