Warrior.5347 Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 > @"Voltekka.2375" said: > > @"Warrior.5347" said: > > > @"Diku.2546" said: > > > > @"Voltekka.2375" said: > > > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > > I will def be quitting wvw once this is implemented and I play quite a bit. Too bad but I just don't want to play without server cohesion and guilds/alliances don't cut it, especially if I don't get into any. > > > > > > > > Are you, perchance, on BG? > > > > > > --- > > > > > > Guilds/Alliances used in this design would allow the highest form of Match-Up Manipulation...which kills a competitive game mode in the long term. > > > > > > Anet is going down the wrong path with this "complex" re-vamp of WvW that will regretfully be painful to modify or upgrade later. > > > > > > --- > > > > > > I Agree with Jumpin.Lumpix.6108 that Guilds/Alliances don't cut it, but over-stacked server that's been entitled to the # 1 WvW Rank position for over the past 5 years doesn't cut it too. > > > > > > If you look at my past posts (I've made 11 in total so far - including this post)...I'm providing an alternative that > > > > > > **FIXES the Top 3 Chronic Problems of WvW since it ORIGINALLY launched which are:** > > > > > > 1. Reduce the direct impact of Server stacking to Match-Ups > > > 2. Allow friends & family to play together from many different Worlds > > > 3. Allow Off-peak capping, but let players to work out a solution themselves > > > > > > I'll strongly advocate for a Pure King of the Hill design for both NA & EU servers through the re-purposing of an already existing game mechanice (Server-Guesting). > > > > > > The re-purpose & re-design basically removes the flawed Fixed Tiers from the WvW game mode that's been at the heart of the problem since the game originally launched. > > > > > > We need to make a "BG-Ranked" server into a highly rewarded WvW destination for all players to want to attack, but with weekly limits on How Many & Which servers players can fight on. > > > > > > --- > > > > > > Let players pick their own match-ups on who they want to fight, but also have players deal directly with the consequence of their choices (i.e. Long waiting queues). > > > > > > Once a "BG-Ranked" server get tired of being the weekly pinata...they're allowed to fall in rank...where a different server will rise to take its place. > > > > > > A Pure King of the Hill match-up design naturally cycles this coveted # 1 Ranked WvW position without heavy coding. Tear down the Fixed Tiers! > > > > > > Any Server that wants to be Ranked # 1 has to earn it by fighting All others servers for this weekly privilege. > > > > > > Without a Fixed Tier....no server is "Forced" into an unfair Match-Up with a "BG-Ranked" server that predictably turns into a meaningless no-win battle that gets boring. > > > > > > Imagine where servers Don't Have to Tank anymore. NO TANK FOR YOU!!! > > > > > > --- > > > > > > **Let the 800 pound gorilla in the room stand on their own blood, sweat, and Tiers.** > > > > > > Pun intended above. :) > > > > > > WvW needs this simple change to allow it to be a competitive game mode that allows players to be emotionally vested in a stable & persistent "team' server. > > > > > > ANet...you're throwing away your opportunity to be the Owner for ALL the eSport Teams for an annual SuperBowl event where you also own the equipment, training fields, and special event venues. What are you thinking? > > > > > > Yours truly, > > > Diku > > > > > > p.s. > > > Any Vote for Helpful or Thumbs Up would be appreciated to help tell ANet they should re-consider their Work In Progress before it's too late. > > > > > > No Soup For You > > > > > > > Can you elaborate on why you think Alliances won't cut it? Because my reasoning is stacked alliances will only vs other stacked alliances in the ideal system. An alliance would be hard pressed to tank unless they unclaim WvW status which I don't see any reason to tank, to beat on PvXers? > > > > You system still brings with it the need to stack servers in order to overtake the #1 seed, like JQ, TC, SoS rose to compete with BG and where are they now? It still leaves the door open for server drama and exodus. Sounds like more server manipulation to me and the headache to research, recruit, and retain guilds for time zones and purposes still prevailing if a server wants to overtake stacked servers. Also while dealing with server caps. Bottom servers are still gonna bottom then propelled at the whim of WvW guilds who deem their server greener then abandoned when it's not. > > > > BG is an anomaly in which all WvWers bandwagon to due to it's early and constant success, thus making it a perpetual WvW server with a higher WvW population. It would be hardpressed for hardcore WvW guilds to find and cultivate a server like BG again in my opinion because history hasn't been kind i.e. JQ, TC, SoS. > > And this is the disparity and why hugely populated servers dont want change > > https://imgur.com/a/jDB318R I see your point, we got good, you get good too. Well with the new system they will ideally fight other good guilds/alliances on close to evenly matched realms. So I can't think of any reason to not restructure other than we like our hardcore base rolling you every week waiting for you to get better instead of pure competition. 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Warrior.5347 Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > @"Warrior.5347" said: > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > @"Warrior.5347" said: > > > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > > > @"Warrior.5347" said: > > > > > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > > > > > @"Warrior.5347" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Warrior.5347" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Warrior.5347" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > I will def be quitting wvw once this is implemented and I play quite a bit. Too bad but I just don't want to play without server cohesion and guilds/alliances don't cut it, especially if I don't get into any. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Can you elaborate as to why it doesn't cut it? I see wild statements made on something that hasn't even happened yet without any reason behind it. Perhaps that's the doomsday mentality that happens with any change. You want server cohesion because you are some lonely/antisocial pug/roamer. Parden my assumption since you mentioned "especially if you don't get into any", which I don't see why not unless you are just super annoying and headlined no guild wants you, thus you depend on a server. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > BG has a high concentration of spvp, players (good players in my opinion since spvp requires the most skill). For me personally, i feel like the wvw community is not one i really like to socialize with, and I feel this is true on every server I have seen. So once we eliminate the familiarity I have with the few people I'm ok with (removing server cohesion) and the fact that now I'm going to be forced to play with people of other servers (which will not be skilled spvp players on the whole), it will make wvw insufferable for me, because then I will be dealing with people I don't want to socialize with and whom are not all that great at pvp in my opinion. This will completely turn me off to wvw. Now i get it that people will simply say its because I want to win - Honestly I really just like playing with people who don't make very many mistakes when they play, as that affects my enjoyment of the game mode since its a team activity. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You can call it elitism or whatever else but its just not enjoyable, and I like it that our unorganized pugs are so devastating due to simply having player skill. BG wipes plenty of times so I dont really mind losing, I wouldn't even mind if we get trounced but, playing with people i don't know whom will be of the same attitude of people i already currently play with and dislike, plus now they aren't all that great, its just going to turn me off to the game mode completely. I have seen BG wipe much larger squads, sometimes even multiple zerg squads that are 2v1ing and its not because "BG is stacked' that, thats occuring. Its because the people on BG are more skilled and they play a lot of Spvp. I get that you want to break it up, and maybe that will work, maybe it won't, but for me its going to be a huge downgrade in gameplay, and the real reason they want to break up BG isn't because it has premier coverage 24/7 (maybe this used to be the case, but it isn't anymore), its because it has a high concentration of good players that know what they are doing and other servers don't like it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > One of the reasons I know this is true is because 2 of BG's top raiding guilds recently joined another server that we now fight against, and they continuously lose against BG Zergs, even with those top BG raiding guild commanders commanding the other servers zergs, even when its an even match in terms of zerg sizes, or if their zerg is slightly larger then BG's, the other servers are still wiping fairly consistently, all because the skill of BG pugs is simply higher on the whole. This is all the proof I need that its a skill issue and not a coverage issue. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Frankly if 24/7 coverage was the issue and other servers are upset about BG's ability to get PPT's and thus the weekly scoring and server tier placement, none of that has to do with zvz which is all that people really care about in wvw. You don't even get anything for winning the weekly matchup against other severs. As a testament to how little they care about who actually wins the weekly matchup, this change to servers that they are proposing, will make the mechanic of which server is #1 all but irrelevant anyways, so it shows how little people care about this mechanic in general already, despite saying that the sole reason for this change is to break up BG's 24/7 coverage so that BG dosen't get all those PPT's and get rank 1 on the server leaderboard. None of this is the issue at hand, that people are upset about when it comes to BG, the real issue is the concentration of skilled players that nobody dare talk about, not that its ranked as #1 on the wvw scoreboard. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I dunno what the solution is, part of me feels like they should just redo wvw completely, because i get that people don't like fighting BG. The flip side however is that making servers generic so that it becomes a non-cohesive empty (as in hollow) game mode like doing pve meta events currently are, + getting rid of all acquaintances that might not be in my guild that I am used to seeing and working together with, and now ontop of the fact that I will be playing with other guilds that I have fought against, some of which i absolutely disdain. + my impression of the fact that other servers are just not as skilled and ill have to play with players who make careless mistakes over and over, which gets old; from a selfish me point of view (as I can only speak for myself, but I have seen others echo my sentiments) it will make my gameplay much less fun then it currently is, and I just don't see the point of continuing playing once they change it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In this whole thing, you proved my assumptions right and still doesn't provide me with any reason why Alliances won't cut it. You just want to pug with other bandwagon pugs. In any case guilds and alliances will be matched up with algorithms to find players of similar skills sets. So ideally strongest players, guilds, and alliances get lumped in first then trickle down. So if you are pro you will be among to the pros, ideally speaking. If the pugs suck, well then join an alliance and be a lurker zerker. So discrediting this change because you fear nub pugs and no pugmanders is a bit selfish imo. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No I'll be quitting thanks. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm not trying to convince you to stay, I'm trying to understand why you are against the restructuring which boils down to I want to bandwagon with other bandwagon pugs. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I edited what I wrote read why. > > > > > > > > > > > > I already know everything you are saying it doesn't warrant repeating. What you don't get is good players will be with good players vs other good players in the ideal restructuring. > > > > > > > > > > This is not going to happen, what will happen is the algorithm will fail like it has in spvp because it is too complex, and people will manipulate the algorithm and bandwagon into super alliances that nobody can stop anyway, so it's a waste of time and in there attempt to compromise they will make everyone unhappy. > > > > > > > > We shall see, because like I said you are making conclusion statements before the fact as if it'll be a reality before the actual experiment. As it stands even super alliances will have to contend with other super and rising super alliances, so I don't see the problem here. > > > > > > > > Sorry you wrote a big kitten essay to which both you and I summarized to one sentence. Bandwagon with bandwagon pugs and you want to bandwagon pug with known bandwagon pugs. > > > > > > Either way it turns all of wvw into a pve meta event where there is no point in winning for your server, there is no purpose to fight on a team, it's just one giant eotm map, that nobody cares about, that alone, more then anything else is enough to make me quit once removed. You won't even care if your guild does well in wvw because there is no shared identity. They might as well just turn wvw into gw1 alliance battles or gvg, If they make this change, because it's not for anyone else. > > > > You are making a lot of assumptions again. The server pride is now guild and alliance pride. Winning comes with prestige and bragging rights just like it does when guilds on other servers meet in a battleground. So why wouldn't guilds take pride in steam rolling another guild just like they do now? You mean it's not for you because you mentioned before you are a loner and don't want to develop relationships so I assume you wouldn't even know what guild or alliance pride is or will be. > > Sorry you couldn't get into bg it must not be very fun for you. I'm a BG native before you probably. I'm on the BG forums, if you want proof I'll holla in our chat box and kick it with my man Cruxic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumpin Lumpix.6108 Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 > @"Warrior.5347" said: > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > @"Warrior.5347" said: > > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > > @"Warrior.5347" said: > > > > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > > > > @"Warrior.5347" said: > > > > > > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Warrior.5347" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Warrior.5347" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Warrior.5347" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I will def be quitting wvw once this is implemented and I play quite a bit. Too bad but I just don't want to play without server cohesion and guilds/alliances don't cut it, especially if I don't get into any. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Can you elaborate as to why it doesn't cut it? I see wild statements made on something that hasn't even happened yet without any reason behind it. Perhaps that's the doomsday mentality that happens with any change. You want server cohesion because you are some lonely/antisocial pug/roamer. Parden my assumption since you mentioned "especially if you don't get into any", which I don't see why not unless you are just super annoying and headlined no guild wants you, thus you depend on a server. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > BG has a high concentration of spvp, players (good players in my opinion since spvp requires the most skill). For me personally, i feel like the wvw community is not one i really like to socialize with, and I feel this is true on every server I have seen. So once we eliminate the familiarity I have with the few people I'm ok with (removing server cohesion) and the fact that now I'm going to be forced to play with people of other servers (which will not be skilled spvp players on the whole), it will make wvw insufferable for me, because then I will be dealing with people I don't want to socialize with and whom are not all that great at pvp in my opinion. This will completely turn me off to wvw. Now i get it that people will simply say its because I want to win - Honestly I really just like playing with people who don't make very many mistakes when they play, as that affects my enjoyment of the game mode since its a team activity. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You can call it elitism or whatever else but its just not enjoyable, and I like it that our unorganized pugs are so devastating due to simply having player skill. BG wipes plenty of times so I dont really mind losing, I wouldn't even mind if we get trounced but, playing with people i don't know whom will be of the same attitude of people i already currently play with and dislike, plus now they aren't all that great, its just going to turn me off to the game mode completely. I have seen BG wipe much larger squads, sometimes even multiple zerg squads that are 2v1ing and its not because "BG is stacked' that, thats occuring. Its because the people on BG are more skilled and they play a lot of Spvp. I get that you want to break it up, and maybe that will work, maybe it won't, but for me its going to be a huge downgrade in gameplay, and the real reason they want to break up BG isn't because it has premier coverage 24/7 (maybe this used to be the case, but it isn't anymore), its because it has a high concentration of good players that know what they are doing and other servers don't like it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > One of the reasons I know this is true is because 2 of BG's top raiding guilds recently joined another server that we now fight against, and they continuously lose against BG Zergs, even with those top BG raiding guild commanders commanding the other servers zergs, even when its an even match in terms of zerg sizes, or if their zerg is slightly larger then BG's, the other servers are still wiping fairly consistently, all because the skill of BG pugs is simply higher on the whole. This is all the proof I need that its a skill issue and not a coverage issue. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Frankly if 24/7 coverage was the issue and other servers are upset about BG's ability to get PPT's and thus the weekly scoring and server tier placement, none of that has to do with zvz which is all that people really care about in wvw. You don't even get anything for winning the weekly matchup against other severs. As a testament to how little they care about who actually wins the weekly matchup, this change to servers that they are proposing, will make the mechanic of which server is #1 all but irrelevant anyways, so it shows how little people care about this mechanic in general already, despite saying that the sole reason for this change is to break up BG's 24/7 coverage so that BG dosen't get all those PPT's and get rank 1 on the server leaderboard. None of this is the issue at hand, that people are upset about when it comes to BG, the real issue is the concentration of skilled players that nobody dare talk about, not that its ranked as #1 on the wvw scoreboard. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I dunno what the solution is, part of me feels like they should just redo wvw completely, because i get that people don't like fighting BG. The flip side however is that making servers generic so that it becomes a non-cohesive empty (as in hollow) game mode like doing pve meta events currently are, + getting rid of all acquaintances that might not be in my guild that I am used to seeing and working together with, and now ontop of the fact that I will be playing with other guilds that I have fought against, some of which i absolutely disdain. + my impression of the fact that other servers are just not as skilled and ill have to play with players who make careless mistakes over and over, which gets old; from a selfish me point of view (as I can only speak for myself, but I have seen others echo my sentiments) it will make my gameplay much less fun then it currently is, and I just don't see the point of continuing playing once they change it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In this whole thing, you proved my assumptions right and still doesn't provide me with any reason why Alliances won't cut it. You just want to pug with other bandwagon pugs. In any case guilds and alliances will be matched up with algorithms to find players of similar skills sets. So ideally strongest players, guilds, and alliances get lumped in first then trickle down. So if you are pro you will be among to the pros, ideally speaking. If the pugs suck, well then join an alliance and be a lurker zerker. So discrediting this change because you fear nub pugs and no pugmanders is a bit selfish imo. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No I'll be quitting thanks. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm not trying to convince you to stay, I'm trying to understand why you are against the restructuring which boils down to I want to bandwagon with other bandwagon pugs. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I edited what I wrote read why. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I already know everything you are saying it doesn't warrant repeating. What you don't get is good players will be with good players vs other good players in the ideal restructuring. > > > > > > > > > > > > This is not going to happen, what will happen is the algorithm will fail like it has in spvp because it is too complex, and people will manipulate the algorithm and bandwagon into super alliances that nobody can stop anyway, so it's a waste of time and in there attempt to compromise they will make everyone unhappy. > > > > > > > > > > We shall see, because like I said you are making conclusion statements before the fact as if it'll be a reality before the actual experiment. As it stands even super alliances will have to contend with other super and rising super alliances, so I don't see the problem here. > > > > > > > > > > Sorry you wrote a big kitten essay to which both you and I summarized to one sentence. Bandwagon with bandwagon pugs and you want to bandwagon pug with known bandwagon pugs. > > > > > > > > Either way it turns all of wvw into a pve meta event where there is no point in winning for your server, there is no purpose to fight on a team, it's just one giant eotm map, that nobody cares about, that alone, more then anything else is enough to make me quit once removed. You won't even care if your guild does well in wvw because there is no shared identity. They might as well just turn wvw into gw1 alliance battles or gvg, If they make this change, because it's not for anyone else. > > > > > > You are making a lot of assumptions again. The server pride is now guild and alliance pride. Winning comes with prestige and bragging rights just like it does when guilds on other servers meet in a battleground. So why wouldn't guilds take pride in steam rolling another guild just like they do now? You mean it's not for you because you mentioned before you are a loner and don't want to develop relationships so I assume you wouldn't even know what guild or alliance pride is or will be. > > > > Sorry you couldn't get into bg it must not be very fun for you. > > I'm a BG native before you probably. I'm on the BG forums, if you want proof I'll holla in our chat box and kick it with my man Cruxic. Well I'm so glad that your wvw cohesion is limited to a couple of guilds only and the people In them, I can see you don't care about pugs or the people who come together that form a server. You'd rather have exclusionary wvw alliances that alienate the pugs which overwhelmingly contribute to wvw guilds success. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warrior.5347 Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > @"Warrior.5347" said: > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > @"Warrior.5347" said: > > > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > > > @"Warrior.5347" said: > > > > > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > > > > > @"Warrior.5347" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Warrior.5347" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Warrior.5347" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > I will def be quitting wvw once this is implemented and I play quite a bit. Too bad but I just don't want to play without server cohesion and guilds/alliances don't cut it, especially if I don't get into any. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Can you elaborate as to why it doesn't cut it? I see wild statements made on something that hasn't even happened yet without any reason behind it. Perhaps that's the doomsday mentality that happens with any change. You want server cohesion because you are some lonely/antisocial pug/roamer. Parden my assumption since you mentioned "especially if you don't get into any", which I don't see why not unless you are just super annoying and headlined no guild wants you, thus you depend on a server. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > BG has a high concentration of spvp, players (good players in my opinion since spvp requires the most skill). For me personally, i feel like the wvw community is not one i really like to socialize with, and I feel this is true on every server I have seen. So once we eliminate the familiarity I have with the few people I'm ok with (removing server cohesion) and the fact that now I'm going to be forced to play with people of other servers (which will not be skilled spvp players on the whole), it will make wvw insufferable for me, because then I will be dealing with people I don't want to socialize with and whom are not all that great at pvp in my opinion. This will completely turn me off to wvw. Now i get it that people will simply say its because I want to win - Honestly I really just like playing with people who don't make very many mistakes when they play, as that affects my enjoyment of the game mode since its a team activity. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You can call it elitism or whatever else but its just not enjoyable, and I like it that our unorganized pugs are so devastating due to simply having player skill. BG wipes plenty of times so I dont really mind losing, I wouldn't even mind if we get trounced but, playing with people i don't know whom will be of the same attitude of people i already currently play with and dislike, plus now they aren't all that great, its just going to turn me off to the game mode completely. I have seen BG wipe much larger squads, sometimes even multiple zerg squads that are 2v1ing and its not because "BG is stacked' that, thats occuring. Its because the people on BG are more skilled and they play a lot of Spvp. I get that you want to break it up, and maybe that will work, maybe it won't, but for me its going to be a huge downgrade in gameplay, and the real reason they want to break up BG isn't because it has premier coverage 24/7 (maybe this used to be the case, but it isn't anymore), its because it has a high concentration of good players that know what they are doing and other servers don't like it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > One of the reasons I know this is true is because 2 of BG's top raiding guilds recently joined another server that we now fight against, and they continuously lose against BG Zergs, even with those top BG raiding guild commanders commanding the other servers zergs, even when its an even match in terms of zerg sizes, or if their zerg is slightly larger then BG's, the other servers are still wiping fairly consistently, all because the skill of BG pugs is simply higher on the whole. This is all the proof I need that its a skill issue and not a coverage issue. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Frankly if 24/7 coverage was the issue and other servers are upset about BG's ability to get PPT's and thus the weekly scoring and server tier placement, none of that has to do with zvz which is all that people really care about in wvw. You don't even get anything for winning the weekly matchup against other severs. As a testament to how little they care about who actually wins the weekly matchup, this change to servers that they are proposing, will make the mechanic of which server is #1 all but irrelevant anyways, so it shows how little people care about this mechanic in general already, despite saying that the sole reason for this change is to break up BG's 24/7 coverage so that BG dosen't get all those PPT's and get rank 1 on the server leaderboard. None of this is the issue at hand, that people are upset about when it comes to BG, the real issue is the concentration of skilled players that nobody dare talk about, not that its ranked as #1 on the wvw scoreboard. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I dunno what the solution is, part of me feels like they should just redo wvw completely, because i get that people don't like fighting BG. The flip side however is that making servers generic so that it becomes a non-cohesive empty (as in hollow) game mode like doing pve meta events currently are, + getting rid of all acquaintances that might not be in my guild that I am used to seeing and working together with, and now ontop of the fact that I will be playing with other guilds that I have fought against, some of which i absolutely disdain. + my impression of the fact that other servers are just not as skilled and ill have to play with players who make careless mistakes over and over, which gets old; from a selfish me point of view (as I can only speak for myself, but I have seen others echo my sentiments) it will make my gameplay much less fun then it currently is, and I just don't see the point of continuing playing once they change it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In this whole thing, you proved my assumptions right and still doesn't provide me with any reason why Alliances won't cut it. You just want to pug with other bandwagon pugs. In any case guilds and alliances will be matched up with algorithms to find players of similar skills sets. So ideally strongest players, guilds, and alliances get lumped in first then trickle down. So if you are pro you will be among to the pros, ideally speaking. If the pugs suck, well then join an alliance and be a lurker zerker. So discrediting this change because you fear nub pugs and no pugmanders is a bit selfish imo. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No I'll be quitting thanks. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm not trying to convince you to stay, I'm trying to understand why you are against the restructuring which boils down to I want to bandwagon with other bandwagon pugs. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I edited what I wrote read why. > > > > > > > > > > > > I already know everything you are saying it doesn't warrant repeating. What you don't get is good players will be with good players vs other good players in the ideal restructuring. > > > > > > > > > > This is not going to happen, what will happen is the algorithm will fail like it has in spvp because it is too complex, and people will manipulate the algorithm and bandwagon into super alliances that nobody can stop anyway, so it's a waste of time and in there attempt to compromise they will make everyone unhappy. > > > > > > > > We shall see, because like I said you are making conclusion statements before the fact as if it'll be a reality before the actual experiment. As it stands even super alliances will have to contend with other super and rising super alliances, so I don't see the problem here. > > > > > > > > Sorry you wrote a big kitten essay to which both you and I summarized to one sentence. Bandwagon with bandwagon pugs and you want to bandwagon pug with known bandwagon pugs. > > > > > > Either way it turns all of wvw into a pve meta event where there is no point in winning for your server, there is no purpose to fight on a team, it's just one giant eotm map, that nobody cares about, that alone, more then anything else is enough to make me quit once removed. You won't even care if your guild does well in wvw because there is no shared identity. They might as well just turn wvw into gw1 alliance battles or gvg, If they make this change, because it's not for anyone else. > > > > You are making a lot of assumptions again. The server pride is now guild and alliance pride. Winning comes with prestige and bragging rights just like it does when guilds on other servers meet in a battleground. So why wouldn't guilds take pride in steam rolling another guild just like they do now? You mean it's not for you because you mentioned before you are a loner and don't want to develop relationships so I assume you wouldn't even know what guild or alliance pride is or will be. > > Wow OK you're really rude, I'm done. Yah keep assuming a highly skilled player like myself who has played mmos for 18 years and gw1 since it was in beta is totally clueless. I'm not saying you are clueless, I'm on my phone right now so quoting your words is rather time consuming, so trust me when I say I am going off what you stated recently. You think you are highly skilled, but bandwagon is still not a good look. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warrior.5347 Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > @"Warrior.5347" said: > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > @"Warrior.5347" said: > > > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > > > @"Warrior.5347" said: > > > > > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > > > > > @"Warrior.5347" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Warrior.5347" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Warrior.5347" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Warrior.5347" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I will def be quitting wvw once this is implemented and I play quite a bit. Too bad but I just don't want to play without server cohesion and guilds/alliances don't cut it, especially if I don't get into any. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Can you elaborate as to why it doesn't cut it? I see wild statements made on something that hasn't even happened yet without any reason behind it. Perhaps that's the doomsday mentality that happens with any change. You want server cohesion because you are some lonely/antisocial pug/roamer. Parden my assumption since you mentioned "especially if you don't get into any", which I don't see why not unless you are just super annoying and headlined no guild wants you, thus you depend on a server. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > BG has a high concentration of spvp, players (good players in my opinion since spvp requires the most skill). For me personally, i feel like the wvw community is not one i really like to socialize with, and I feel this is true on every server I have seen. So once we eliminate the familiarity I have with the few people I'm ok with (removing server cohesion) and the fact that now I'm going to be forced to play with people of other servers (which will not be skilled spvp players on the whole), it will make wvw insufferable for me, because then I will be dealing with people I don't want to socialize with and whom are not all that great at pvp in my opinion. This will completely turn me off to wvw. Now i get it that people will simply say its because I want to win - Honestly I really just like playing with people who don't make very many mistakes when they play, as that affects my enjoyment of the game mode since its a team activity. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You can call it elitism or whatever else but its just not enjoyable, and I like it that our unorganized pugs are so devastating due to simply having player skill. BG wipes plenty of times so I dont really mind losing, I wouldn't even mind if we get trounced but, playing with people i don't know whom will be of the same attitude of people i already currently play with and dislike, plus now they aren't all that great, its just going to turn me off to the game mode completely. I have seen BG wipe much larger squads, sometimes even multiple zerg squads that are 2v1ing and its not because "BG is stacked' that, thats occuring. Its because the people on BG are more skilled and they play a lot of Spvp. I get that you want to break it up, and maybe that will work, maybe it won't, but for me its going to be a huge downgrade in gameplay, and the real reason they want to break up BG isn't because it has premier coverage 24/7 (maybe this used to be the case, but it isn't anymore), its because it has a high concentration of good players that know what they are doing and other servers don't like it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > One of the reasons I know this is true is because 2 of BG's top raiding guilds recently joined another server that we now fight against, and they continuously lose against BG Zergs, even with those top BG raiding guild commanders commanding the other servers zergs, even when its an even match in terms of zerg sizes, or if their zerg is slightly larger then BG's, the other servers are still wiping fairly consistently, all because the skill of BG pugs is simply higher on the whole. This is all the proof I need that its a skill issue and not a coverage issue. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Frankly if 24/7 coverage was the issue and other servers are upset about BG's ability to get PPT's and thus the weekly scoring and server tier placement, none of that has to do with zvz which is all that people really care about in wvw. You don't even get anything for winning the weekly matchup against other severs. As a testament to how little they care about who actually wins the weekly matchup, this change to servers that they are proposing, will make the mechanic of which server is #1 all but irrelevant anyways, so it shows how little people care about this mechanic in general already, despite saying that the sole reason for this change is to break up BG's 24/7 coverage so that BG dosen't get all those PPT's and get rank 1 on the server leaderboard. None of this is the issue at hand, that people are upset about when it comes to BG, the real issue is the concentration of skilled players that nobody dare talk about, not that its ranked as #1 on the wvw scoreboard. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I dunno what the solution is, part of me feels like they should just redo wvw completely, because i get that people don't like fighting BG. The flip side however is that making servers generic so that it becomes a non-cohesive empty (as in hollow) game mode like doing pve meta events currently are, + getting rid of all acquaintances that might not be in my guild that I am used to seeing and working together with, and now ontop of the fact that I will be playing with other guilds that I have fought against, some of which i absolutely disdain. + my impression of the fact that other servers are just not as skilled and ill have to play with players who make careless mistakes over and over, which gets old; from a selfish me point of view (as I can only speak for myself, but I have seen others echo my sentiments) it will make my gameplay much less fun then it currently is, and I just don't see the point of continuing playing once they change it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In this whole thing, you proved my assumptions right and still doesn't provide me with any reason why Alliances won't cut it. You just want to pug with other bandwagon pugs. In any case guilds and alliances will be matched up with algorithms to find players of similar skills sets. So ideally strongest players, guilds, and alliances get lumped in first then trickle down. So if you are pro you will be among to the pros, ideally speaking. If the pugs suck, well then join an alliance and be a lurker zerker. So discrediting this change because you fear nub pugs and no pugmanders is a bit selfish imo. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No I'll be quitting thanks. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm not trying to convince you to stay, I'm trying to understand why you are against the restructuring which boils down to I want to bandwagon with other bandwagon pugs. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I edited what I wrote read why. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I already know everything you are saying it doesn't warrant repeating. What you don't get is good players will be with good players vs other good players in the ideal restructuring. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is not going to happen, what will happen is the algorithm will fail like it has in spvp because it is too complex, and people will manipulate the algorithm and bandwagon into super alliances that nobody can stop anyway, so it's a waste of time and in there attempt to compromise they will make everyone unhappy. > > > > > > > > > > > > We shall see, because like I said you are making conclusion statements before the fact as if it'll be a reality before the actual experiment. As it stands even super alliances will have to contend with other super and rising super alliances, so I don't see the problem here. > > > > > > > > > > > > Sorry you wrote a big kitten essay to which both you and I summarized to one sentence. Bandwagon with bandwagon pugs and you want to bandwagon pug with known bandwagon pugs. > > > > > > > > > > Either way it turns all of wvw into a pve meta event where there is no point in winning for your server, there is no purpose to fight on a team, it's just one giant eotm map, that nobody cares about, that alone, more then anything else is enough to make me quit once removed. You won't even care if your guild does well in wvw because there is no shared identity. They might as well just turn wvw into gw1 alliance battles or gvg, If they make this change, because it's not for anyone else. > > > > > > > > You are making a lot of assumptions again. The server pride is now guild and alliance pride. Winning comes with prestige and bragging rights just like it does when guilds on other servers meet in a battleground. So why wouldn't guilds take pride in steam rolling another guild just like they do now? You mean it's not for you because you mentioned before you are a loner and don't want to develop relationships so I assume you wouldn't even know what guild or alliance pride is or will be. > > > > > > Sorry you couldn't get into bg it must not be very fun for you. > > > > I'm a BG native before you probably. I'm on the BG forums, if you want proof I'll holla in our chat box and kick it with my man Cruxic. > > Well I'm so glad that your wvw cohesion is limited to a couple of guilds only and the people In them, I can see you don't care about pugs or the people who come together that form a server. You'd rather have exclusionary wvw alliances that alienate the pugs which overwhelmingly contribute to wvw guilds success. Again you assume I didn't start out as a pug, I ran with every guild feeling out their commanders and members and chemistry before committing to one. When my guild isn't running I run with pugs, pugmanders, and other guilds. Pugs are important, there will be pugs in the restructure. You just want your set of familiar pugs. So I still don't see your point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henry.5713 Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 This big talk of 'communities' and how they are going to be ripped apart... The real communities - guilds, open tags, handholding guilds and the very rare cases of unified (mostly small) servers are the ones who will benefit the most here.The current system, with it's waves of bandwagoners, overstacked top tier servers and nonsensical links is a mess in comparison. Hardly enjoyable to anyone but those few loners already stacked on the winning side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warrior.5347 Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 > @"Henry.5713" said: > This big talk of 'communities' and how they are going to be ripped apart... The real communities - guilds, open tags, handholding guilds and the very rare cases of unified (mostly small) servers are the ones who will benefit the most here.The current system, with it's waves of bandwagoners, overstacked top tier servers and nonsensical links is a mess in comparison. Hardly enjoyable to anyone but those few loners already stacked on the winning side. Where would these pugs be without the guilds to supply the commanders, the structure, the strategies, the organization, the siege and more anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caliburn.1845 Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > https://imgur.com/a/jDB318R > The graph isn't labeled? What does it mean? This graph was posted earlier in this thread by Anet Raymond, the driving force behind the Alliance revamp. Each column is the man hours(read activity level) of each server. Which columns represent which servers were not provided, except for the first column which we know is Blackgate. Maybe Blackgate has a better skilled WvW playerbase, maybe Blackgate has better commanders, maybe Blackgate is better organized. All of these things are debatable. What we know via this graph is that Blackgate spends more man hours in WvW than any other server, and that due to the population caps placed on servers, no other server has the chance to stack to the level of activity that Blackgate enjoys. Thus every server is outnumbered by Blackgate overall(Linked servers mitigate this somewhat, and individual times zones will vary, we're talking about overall). I'm not making an argument or stating my opinion, I'm just reading the data that Anet has given us. And after looking at that data for a very long time Anet has decided to do away with servers and give us a more dynamic flexible system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warrior.5347 Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 > @"Caliburn.1845" said: > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > https://imgur.com/a/jDB318R > > The graph isn't labeled? What does it mean? > > This graph was posted earlier in this thread by Anet Raymond, the driving force behind the Alliance revamp. Each column is the man hours(read activity level) of each server. Which columns represent which servers were not provided, except for the first column which we know is Blackgate. > > Maybe Blackgate has a better skilled WvW playerbase, maybe Blackgate has better commanders, maybe Blackgate is better organized. All of these things are debatable. > > What we know via this graph is that Blackgate spends more man hours in WvW than any other server, and that due to the population caps placed on servers, no other server has the chance to stack to the level of activity that Blackgate enjoys. > > Thus every server is outnumbered by Blackgate overall(Linked servers mitigate this somewhat, and individual times zones will vary, we're talking about overall). I'm not making an argument or stating my opinion, I'm just reading the data that Anet has given us. > > And after looking at that data for a very long time Anet has decided to do away with servers and give us a more dynamic flexible system. > > Very good explanation, like I said BG is unique and cultivating servers on that level has been tried and failed due to the population as a whole not being WvW minded to commit a lot of time or server caps as mentioned keeping out the full might of some guilds and pugs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawdler.8521 Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > @"Warrior.5347" said: > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > @"Warrior.5347" said: > > > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > > > @"Warrior.5347" said: > > > > > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > > > > > @"Warrior.5347" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Warrior.5347" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Warrior.5347" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Warrior.5347" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I will def be quitting wvw once this is implemented and I play quite a bit. Too bad but I just don't want to play without server cohesion and guilds/alliances don't cut it, especially if I don't get into any. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Can you elaborate as to why it doesn't cut it? I see wild statements made on something that hasn't even happened yet without any reason behind it. Perhaps that's the doomsday mentality that happens with any change. You want server cohesion because you are some lonely/antisocial pug/roamer. Parden my assumption since you mentioned "especially if you don't get into any", which I don't see why not unless you are just super annoying and headlined no guild wants you, thus you depend on a server. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > BG has a high concentration of spvp, players (good players in my opinion since spvp requires the most skill). For me personally, i feel like the wvw community is not one i really like to socialize with, and I feel this is true on every server I have seen. So once we eliminate the familiarity I have with the few people I'm ok with (removing server cohesion) and the fact that now I'm going to be forced to play with people of other servers (which will not be skilled spvp players on the whole), it will make wvw insufferable for me, because then I will be dealing with people I don't want to socialize with and whom are not all that great at pvp in my opinion. This will completely turn me off to wvw. Now i get it that people will simply say its because I want to win - Honestly I really just like playing with people who don't make very many mistakes when they play, as that affects my enjoyment of the game mode since its a team activity. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You can call it elitism or whatever else but its just not enjoyable, and I like it that our unorganized pugs are so devastating due to simply having player skill. BG wipes plenty of times so I dont really mind losing, I wouldn't even mind if we get trounced but, playing with people i don't know whom will be of the same attitude of people i already currently play with and dislike, plus now they aren't all that great, its just going to turn me off to the game mode completely. I have seen BG wipe much larger squads, sometimes even multiple zerg squads that are 2v1ing and its not because "BG is stacked' that, thats occuring. Its because the people on BG are more skilled and they play a lot of Spvp. I get that you want to break it up, and maybe that will work, maybe it won't, but for me its going to be a huge downgrade in gameplay, and the real reason they want to break up BG isn't because it has premier coverage 24/7 (maybe this used to be the case, but it isn't anymore), its because it has a high concentration of good players that know what they are doing and other servers don't like it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > One of the reasons I know this is true is because 2 of BG's top raiding guilds recently joined another server that we now fight against, and they continuously lose against BG Zergs, even with those top BG raiding guild commanders commanding the other servers zergs, even when its an even match in terms of zerg sizes, or if their zerg is slightly larger then BG's, the other servers are still wiping fairly consistently, all because the skill of BG pugs is simply higher on the whole. This is all the proof I need that its a skill issue and not a coverage issue. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Frankly if 24/7 coverage was the issue and other servers are upset about BG's ability to get PPT's and thus the weekly scoring and server tier placement, none of that has to do with zvz which is all that people really care about in wvw. You don't even get anything for winning the weekly matchup against other severs. As a testament to how little they care about who actually wins the weekly matchup, this change to servers that they are proposing, will make the mechanic of which server is #1 all but irrelevant anyways, so it shows how little people care about this mechanic in general already, despite saying that the sole reason for this change is to break up BG's 24/7 coverage so that BG dosen't get all those PPT's and get rank 1 on the server leaderboard. None of this is the issue at hand, that people are upset about when it comes to BG, the real issue is the concentration of skilled players that nobody dare talk about, not that its ranked as #1 on the wvw scoreboard. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I dunno what the solution is, part of me feels like they should just redo wvw completely, because i get that people don't like fighting BG. The flip side however is that making servers generic so that it becomes a non-cohesive empty (as in hollow) game mode like doing pve meta events currently are, + getting rid of all acquaintances that might not be in my guild that I am used to seeing and working together with, and now ontop of the fact that I will be playing with other guilds that I have fought against, some of which i absolutely disdain. + my impression of the fact that other servers are just not as skilled and ill have to play with players who make careless mistakes over and over, which gets old; from a selfish me point of view (as I can only speak for myself, but I have seen others echo my sentiments) it will make my gameplay much less fun then it currently is, and I just don't see the point of continuing playing once they change it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In this whole thing, you proved my assumptions right and still doesn't provide me with any reason why Alliances won't cut it. You just want to pug with other bandwagon pugs. In any case guilds and alliances will be matched up with algorithms to find players of similar skills sets. So ideally strongest players, guilds, and alliances get lumped in first then trickle down. So if you are pro you will be among to the pros, ideally speaking. If the pugs suck, well then join an alliance and be a lurker zerker. So discrediting this change because you fear nub pugs and no pugmanders is a bit selfish imo. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No I'll be quitting thanks. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm not trying to convince you to stay, I'm trying to understand why you are against the restructuring which boils down to I want to bandwagon with other bandwagon pugs. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I edited what I wrote read why. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I already know everything you are saying it doesn't warrant repeating. What you don't get is good players will be with good players vs other good players in the ideal restructuring. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is not going to happen, what will happen is the algorithm will fail like it has in spvp because it is too complex, and people will manipulate the algorithm and bandwagon into super alliances that nobody can stop anyway, so it's a waste of time and in there attempt to compromise they will make everyone unhappy. > > > > > > > > > > > > We shall see, because like I said you are making conclusion statements before the fact as if it'll be a reality before the actual experiment. As it stands even super alliances will have to contend with other super and rising super alliances, so I don't see the problem here. > > > > > > > > > > > > Sorry you wrote a big kitten essay to which both you and I summarized to one sentence. Bandwagon with bandwagon pugs and you want to bandwagon pug with known bandwagon pugs. > > > > > > > > > > Either way it turns all of wvw into a pve meta event where there is no point in winning for your server, there is no purpose to fight on a team, it's just one giant eotm map, that nobody cares about, that alone, more then anything else is enough to make me quit once removed. You won't even care if your guild does well in wvw because there is no shared identity. They might as well just turn wvw into gw1 alliance battles or gvg, If they make this change, because it's not for anyone else. > > > > > > > > You are making a lot of assumptions again. The server pride is now guild and alliance pride. Winning comes with prestige and bragging rights just like it does when guilds on other servers meet in a battleground. So why wouldn't guilds take pride in steam rolling another guild just like they do now? You mean it's not for you because you mentioned before you are a loner and don't want to develop relationships so I assume you wouldn't even know what guild or alliance pride is or will be. > > > > > > Sorry you couldn't get into bg it must not be very fun for you. > > > > I'm a BG native before you probably. I'm on the BG forums, if you want proof I'll holla in our chat box and kick it with my man Cruxic. > > Well I'm so glad that your wvw cohesion is limited to a couple of guilds only and the people In them, I can see you don't care about pugs or the people who come together that form a server. You'd rather have exclusionary wvw alliances that alienate the pugs which overwhelmingly contribute to wvw guilds success. Well, what does that the rest of that sPvP pug elite on your server thinks about the change then? Have you asked them? Do they think this will destroy WvW and will quit too? Or are we talking about a singular point of view? 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Euryon.9248 Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 What's good for BG is not what's good for the wvw community as a whole. What's good for elitists from BG who refuse to play with "less skilled" players and refuse to join an alliance is definitely not what's good for the wvw community as a whole, and if those few people choose to stop playing altogether then it's hardly going to hurt the game. You can't stamp your feet and talk about how a change is bad for *you* and expect Anet to alter their plans on that basis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumpin Lumpix.6108 Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 > @"Warrior.5347" said: > > @"Henry.5713" said: > > This big talk of 'communities' and how they are going to be ripped apart... The real communities - guilds, open tags, handholding guilds and the very rare cases of unified (mostly small) servers are the ones who will benefit the most here.The current system, with it's waves of bandwagoners, overstacked top tier servers and nonsensical links is a mess in comparison. Hardly enjoyable to anyone but those few loners already stacked on the winning side. > > Where would these pugs be without the guilds to supply the commanders, the structure, the strategies, the organization, the siege and more anyway. Lol wiping everyone, which is evident by the 2 top guilds who transfers to yb and now they are the ones being trounced, because it was never about the guilds it's the pugs. I personally am a 2 X spvp legend, so I have no trouble destroying wvw vets on a reg basis. I don't need a guild to show me how to do that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumpin Lumpix.6108 Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 > @"Warrior.5347" said: > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > @"Warrior.5347" said: > > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > > @"Warrior.5347" said: > > > > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > > > > @"Warrior.5347" said: > > > > > > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Warrior.5347" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Warrior.5347" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Warrior.5347" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Warrior.5347" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I will def be quitting wvw once this is implemented and I play quite a bit. Too bad but I just don't want to play without server cohesion and guilds/alliances don't cut it, especially if I don't get into any. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Can you elaborate as to why it doesn't cut it? I see wild statements made on something that hasn't even happened yet without any reason behind it. Perhaps that's the doomsday mentality that happens with any change. You want server cohesion because you are some lonely/antisocial pug/roamer. Parden my assumption since you mentioned "especially if you don't get into any", which I don't see why not unless you are just super annoying and headlined no guild wants you, thus you depend on a server. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > BG has a high concentration of spvp, players (good players in my opinion since spvp requires the most skill). For me personally, i feel like the wvw community is not one i really like to socialize with, and I feel this is true on every server I have seen. So once we eliminate the familiarity I have with the few people I'm ok with (removing server cohesion) and the fact that now I'm going to be forced to play with people of other servers (which will not be skilled spvp players on the whole), it will make wvw insufferable for me, because then I will be dealing with people I don't want to socialize with and whom are not all that great at pvp in my opinion. This will completely turn me off to wvw. Now i get it that people will simply say its because I want to win - Honestly I really just like playing with people who don't make very many mistakes when they play, as that affects my enjoyment of the game mode since its a team activity. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You can call it elitism or whatever else but its just not enjoyable, and I like it that our unorganized pugs are so devastating due to simply having player skill. BG wipes plenty of times so I dont really mind losing, I wouldn't even mind if we get trounced but, playing with people i don't know whom will be of the same attitude of people i already currently play with and dislike, plus now they aren't all that great, its just going to turn me off to the game mode completely. I have seen BG wipe much larger squads, sometimes even multiple zerg squads that are 2v1ing and its not because "BG is stacked' that, thats occuring. Its because the people on BG are more skilled and they play a lot of Spvp. I get that you want to break it up, and maybe that will work, maybe it won't, but for me its going to be a huge downgrade in gameplay, and the real reason they want to break up BG isn't because it has premier coverage 24/7 (maybe this used to be the case, but it isn't anymore), its because it has a high concentration of good players that know what they are doing and other servers don't like it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > One of the reasons I know this is true is because 2 of BG's top raiding guilds recently joined another server that we now fight against, and they continuously lose against BG Zergs, even with those top BG raiding guild commanders commanding the other servers zergs, even when its an even match in terms of zerg sizes, or if their zerg is slightly larger then BG's, the other servers are still wiping fairly consistently, all because the skill of BG pugs is simply higher on the whole. This is all the proof I need that its a skill issue and not a coverage issue. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Frankly if 24/7 coverage was the issue and other servers are upset about BG's ability to get PPT's and thus the weekly scoring and server tier placement, none of that has to do with zvz which is all that people really care about in wvw. You don't even get anything for winning the weekly matchup against other severs. As a testament to how little they care about who actually wins the weekly matchup, this change to servers that they are proposing, will make the mechanic of which server is #1 all but irrelevant anyways, so it shows how little people care about this mechanic in general already, despite saying that the sole reason for this change is to break up BG's 24/7 coverage so that BG dosen't get all those PPT's and get rank 1 on the server leaderboard. None of this is the issue at hand, that people are upset about when it comes to BG, the real issue is the concentration of skilled players that nobody dare talk about, not that its ranked as #1 on the wvw scoreboard. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I dunno what the solution is, part of me feels like they should just redo wvw completely, because i get that people don't like fighting BG. The flip side however is that making servers generic so that it becomes a non-cohesive empty (as in hollow) game mode like doing pve meta events currently are, + getting rid of all acquaintances that might not be in my guild that I am used to seeing and working together with, and now ontop of the fact that I will be playing with other guilds that I have fought against, some of which i absolutely disdain. + my impression of the fact that other servers are just not as skilled and ill have to play with players who make careless mistakes over and over, which gets old; from a selfish me point of view (as I can only speak for myself, but I have seen others echo my sentiments) it will make my gameplay much less fun then it currently is, and I just don't see the point of continuing playing once they change it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In this whole thing, you proved my assumptions right and still doesn't provide me with any reason why Alliances won't cut it. You just want to pug with other bandwagon pugs. In any case guilds and alliances will be matched up with algorithms to find players of similar skills sets. So ideally strongest players, guilds, and alliances get lumped in first then trickle down. So if you are pro you will be among to the pros, ideally speaking. If the pugs suck, well then join an alliance and be a lurker zerker. So discrediting this change because you fear nub pugs and no pugmanders is a bit selfish imo. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No I'll be quitting thanks. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm not trying to convince you to stay, I'm trying to understand why you are against the restructuring which boils down to I want to bandwagon with other bandwagon pugs. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I edited what I wrote read why. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I already know everything you are saying it doesn't warrant repeating. What you don't get is good players will be with good players vs other good players in the ideal restructuring. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is not going to happen, what will happen is the algorithm will fail like it has in spvp because it is too complex, and people will manipulate the algorithm and bandwagon into super alliances that nobody can stop anyway, so it's a waste of time and in there attempt to compromise they will make everyone unhappy. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > We shall see, because like I said you are making conclusion statements before the fact as if it'll be a reality before the actual experiment. As it stands even super alliances will have to contend with other super and rising super alliances, so I don't see the problem here. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sorry you wrote a big kitten essay to which both you and I summarized to one sentence. Bandwagon with bandwagon pugs and you want to bandwagon pug with known bandwagon pugs. > > > > > > > > > > > > Either way it turns all of wvw into a pve meta event where there is no point in winning for your server, there is no purpose to fight on a team, it's just one giant eotm map, that nobody cares about, that alone, more then anything else is enough to make me quit once removed. You won't even care if your guild does well in wvw because there is no shared identity. They might as well just turn wvw into gw1 alliance battles or gvg, If they make this change, because it's not for anyone else. > > > > > > > > > > You are making a lot of assumptions again. The server pride is now guild and alliance pride. Winning comes with prestige and bragging rights just like it does when guilds on other servers meet in a battleground. So why wouldn't guilds take pride in steam rolling another guild just like they do now? You mean it's not for you because you mentioned before you are a loner and don't want to develop relationships so I assume you wouldn't even know what guild or alliance pride is or will be. > > > > > > > > Sorry you couldn't get into bg it must not be very fun for you. > > > > > > I'm a BG native before you probably. I'm on the BG forums, if you want proof I'll holla in our chat box and kick it with my man Cruxic. > > > > Well I'm so glad that your wvw cohesion is limited to a couple of guilds only and the people In them, I can see you don't care about pugs or the people who come together that form a server. You'd rather have exclusionary wvw alliances that alienate the pugs which overwhelmingly contribute to wvw guilds success. > > Again you assume I didn't start out as a pug, I ran with every guild feeling out their commanders and members and chemistry before committing to one. When my guild isn't running I run with pugs, pugmanders, and other guilds. Pugs are important, there will be pugs in the restructure. You just want your set of familiar pugs. So I still don't see your point. Fighting for our shared identity (server) is one of the main driving forces behind the motivation to play wvw in the first place, that will now be deleted and replaced with nothing. Yah you could be in a guild and feel like your part of that, but without a server to also feel apart of, a lot of motivation to belong will be eliminated. This can be seen in eotm, where nobody cares about anything and nobody plays it, so yes I think this decision will destroy wvw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumpin Lumpix.6108 Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 > @"Henry.5713" said: > This big talk of 'communities' and how they are going to be ripped apart... The real communities - guilds, open tags, handholding guilds and the very rare cases of unified (mostly small) servers are the ones who will benefit the most here.The current system, with it's waves of bandwagoners, overstacked top tier servers and nonsensical links is a mess in comparison. Hardly enjoyable to anyone but those few loners already stacked on the winning side. Great well I wil be quitting and it's not because I'm a bandwagoner or because I care about my server coming in 1st at the end of the week. If I feel this way, trust me others do too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumpin Lumpix.6108 Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 > @"Euryon.9248" said: > What's good for BG is not what's good for the wvw community as a whole. What's good for elitists from BG who refuse to play with "less skilled" players and refuse to join an alliance is definitely not what's good for the wvw community as a whole, and if those few people choose to stop playing altogether then it's hardly going to hurt the game. You can't stamp your feet and talk about how a change is bad for *you* and expect Anet to alter their plans on that basis. I'm more concerned about identity, eotm is dead and nobody enjoys it, this will turn all of wvw into this, it's a bad solution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumpin Lumpix.6108 Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 > @"Dawdler.8521" said: > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > @"Warrior.5347" said: > > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > > @"Warrior.5347" said: > > > > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > > > > @"Warrior.5347" said: > > > > > > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Warrior.5347" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Warrior.5347" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Warrior.5347" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Warrior.5347" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I will def be quitting wvw once this is implemented and I play quite a bit. Too bad but I just don't want to play without server cohesion and guilds/alliances don't cut it, especially if I don't get into any. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Can you elaborate as to why it doesn't cut it? I see wild statements made on something that hasn't even happened yet without any reason behind it. Perhaps that's the doomsday mentality that happens with any change. You want server cohesion because you are some lonely/antisocial pug/roamer. Parden my assumption since you mentioned "especially if you don't get into any", which I don't see why not unless you are just super annoying and headlined no guild wants you, thus you depend on a server. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > BG has a high concentration of spvp, players (good players in my opinion since spvp requires the most skill). For me personally, i feel like the wvw community is not one i really like to socialize with, and I feel this is true on every server I have seen. So once we eliminate the familiarity I have with the few people I'm ok with (removing server cohesion) and the fact that now I'm going to be forced to play with people of other servers (which will not be skilled spvp players on the whole), it will make wvw insufferable for me, because then I will be dealing with people I don't want to socialize with and whom are not all that great at pvp in my opinion. This will completely turn me off to wvw. Now i get it that people will simply say its because I want to win - Honestly I really just like playing with people who don't make very many mistakes when they play, as that affects my enjoyment of the game mode since its a team activity. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You can call it elitism or whatever else but its just not enjoyable, and I like it that our unorganized pugs are so devastating due to simply having player skill. BG wipes plenty of times so I dont really mind losing, I wouldn't even mind if we get trounced but, playing with people i don't know whom will be of the same attitude of people i already currently play with and dislike, plus now they aren't all that great, its just going to turn me off to the game mode completely. I have seen BG wipe much larger squads, sometimes even multiple zerg squads that are 2v1ing and its not because "BG is stacked' that, thats occuring. Its because the people on BG are more skilled and they play a lot of Spvp. I get that you want to break it up, and maybe that will work, maybe it won't, but for me its going to be a huge downgrade in gameplay, and the real reason they want to break up BG isn't because it has premier coverage 24/7 (maybe this used to be the case, but it isn't anymore), its because it has a high concentration of good players that know what they are doing and other servers don't like it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > One of the reasons I know this is true is because 2 of BG's top raiding guilds recently joined another server that we now fight against, and they continuously lose against BG Zergs, even with those top BG raiding guild commanders commanding the other servers zergs, even when its an even match in terms of zerg sizes, or if their zerg is slightly larger then BG's, the other servers are still wiping fairly consistently, all because the skill of BG pugs is simply higher on the whole. This is all the proof I need that its a skill issue and not a coverage issue. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Frankly if 24/7 coverage was the issue and other servers are upset about BG's ability to get PPT's and thus the weekly scoring and server tier placement, none of that has to do with zvz which is all that people really care about in wvw. You don't even get anything for winning the weekly matchup against other severs. As a testament to how little they care about who actually wins the weekly matchup, this change to servers that they are proposing, will make the mechanic of which server is #1 all but irrelevant anyways, so it shows how little people care about this mechanic in general already, despite saying that the sole reason for this change is to break up BG's 24/7 coverage so that BG dosen't get all those PPT's and get rank 1 on the server leaderboard. None of this is the issue at hand, that people are upset about when it comes to BG, the real issue is the concentration of skilled players that nobody dare talk about, not that its ranked as #1 on the wvw scoreboard. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I dunno what the solution is, part of me feels like they should just redo wvw completely, because i get that people don't like fighting BG. The flip side however is that making servers generic so that it becomes a non-cohesive empty (as in hollow) game mode like doing pve meta events currently are, + getting rid of all acquaintances that might not be in my guild that I am used to seeing and working together with, and now ontop of the fact that I will be playing with other guilds that I have fought against, some of which i absolutely disdain. + my impression of the fact that other servers are just not as skilled and ill have to play with players who make careless mistakes over and over, which gets old; from a selfish me point of view (as I can only speak for myself, but I have seen others echo my sentiments) it will make my gameplay much less fun then it currently is, and I just don't see the point of continuing playing once they change it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In this whole thing, you proved my assumptions right and still doesn't provide me with any reason why Alliances won't cut it. You just want to pug with other bandwagon pugs. In any case guilds and alliances will be matched up with algorithms to find players of similar skills sets. So ideally strongest players, guilds, and alliances get lumped in first then trickle down. So if you are pro you will be among to the pros, ideally speaking. If the pugs suck, well then join an alliance and be a lurker zerker. So discrediting this change because you fear nub pugs and no pugmanders is a bit selfish imo. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No I'll be quitting thanks. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm not trying to convince you to stay, I'm trying to understand why you are against the restructuring which boils down to I want to bandwagon with other bandwagon pugs. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I edited what I wrote read why. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I already know everything you are saying it doesn't warrant repeating. What you don't get is good players will be with good players vs other good players in the ideal restructuring. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is not going to happen, what will happen is the algorithm will fail like it has in spvp because it is too complex, and people will manipulate the algorithm and bandwagon into super alliances that nobody can stop anyway, so it's a waste of time and in there attempt to compromise they will make everyone unhappy. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > We shall see, because like I said you are making conclusion statements before the fact as if it'll be a reality before the actual experiment. As it stands even super alliances will have to contend with other super and rising super alliances, so I don't see the problem here. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sorry you wrote a big kitten essay to which both you and I summarized to one sentence. Bandwagon with bandwagon pugs and you want to bandwagon pug with known bandwagon pugs. > > > > > > > > > > > > Either way it turns all of wvw into a pve meta event where there is no point in winning for your server, there is no purpose to fight on a team, it's just one giant eotm map, that nobody cares about, that alone, more then anything else is enough to make me quit once removed. You won't even care if your guild does well in wvw because there is no shared identity. They might as well just turn wvw into gw1 alliance battles or gvg, If they make this change, because it's not for anyone else. > > > > > > > > > > You are making a lot of assumptions again. The server pride is now guild and alliance pride. Winning comes with prestige and bragging rights just like it does when guilds on other servers meet in a battleground. So why wouldn't guilds take pride in steam rolling another guild just like they do now? You mean it's not for you because you mentioned before you are a loner and don't want to develop relationships so I assume you wouldn't even know what guild or alliance pride is or will be. > > > > > > > > Sorry you couldn't get into bg it must not be very fun for you. > > > > > > I'm a BG native before you probably. I'm on the BG forums, if you want proof I'll holla in our chat box and kick it with my man Cruxic. > > > > Well I'm so glad that your wvw cohesion is limited to a couple of guilds only and the people In them, I can see you don't care about pugs or the people who come together that form a server. You'd rather have exclusionary wvw alliances that alienate the pugs which overwhelmingly contribute to wvw guilds success. > > Well, what does that the rest of that sPvP pug elite on your server thinks about the change then? Have you asked them? Do they think this will destroy WvW and will quit too? Or are we talking about a singular point of view? > No they agree when I type any of this into team chat I get tons of responses saying that it will be the end of wvw and that it's a terrible solution over and over again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shining One.1635 Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > This can be seen in eotm, where nobody cares about anything and nobody plays it, so yes I think this decision will destroy wvw. > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > I'm more concerned about identity, eotm is dead and nobody enjoys it, this will turn all of wvw into this, it's a bad solution. EOTM is dead because WvW offers faster (reward tracks) and exclusive (pips) rewards. Prior to these changes, EOTM was very active. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumpin Lumpix.6108 Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 > @"Shining One.1635" said: > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > This can be seen in eotm, where nobody cares about anything and nobody plays it, so yes I think this decision will destroy wvw. > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > I'm more concerned about identity, eotm is dead and nobody enjoys it, this will turn all of wvw into this, it's a bad solution. > EOTM is dead because WvW offers faster (reward tracks) and exclusive (pips) rewards. Prior to these changes, EOTM was very active. > > Right so the wvw tournaments the fact that we have a server ranking and ppt system, who will care about any of this, in fact, how can we even have any of this with the new system, how will any of us even know how we are doing? Wvw will become so pointless that we might as well do pve. It's like oh if ur not in a guild you don't matter, you're not a person. Here play with random people, from servers you despise after 5 years of fighting against them. No thanks. I'd rather play a different game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drinks.2361 Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 > @"Caliburn.1845" said: > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > https://imgur.com/a/jDB318R > > The graph isn't labeled? What does it mean? > > What we know via this graph is that Blackgate spends more man hours in WvW than any other server, and that due to the population caps placed on servers, no other server has the chance to stack to the level of activity that Blackgate enjoys. Also when it was posted there was 11 full servers, with only BG, YB, & JQ full on NA. Most of the bars even close in size to BG are in EU Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shining One.1635 Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > how will any of us even know how we are doing? The same way we know how we're doing now. There will still be servers, they will just be more dynamic. We will have same tools we do right now for measuring server and individual performance... unless ArenaNet decides to change that. I don't see why they would though. > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > Wvw will become so pointless that we might as well do pve. We'll have to agree to disagree on this one. WvW will have the exact same points to me that it does currently: Fun fights, Sieges, Defenses, etc. > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > It's like oh if ur not in a guild you don't matter, you're not a person. I'm in a dead guild. I'm literally the only one who has logged on in months. I don't feel I'm being treated like I don't matter or I'm not a person. > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > Here play with random people, from servers you despise after 5 years of fighting against them. I don't despise the people I play against or the servers they reside on. This level of emotional investment seems unhealthy to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumpin Lumpix.6108 Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 > @"Shining One.1635" said: > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > how will any of us even know how we are doing? > The same way we know how we're doing now. There will still be servers, they will just be more dynamic. We will have same tools we do right now for measuring server and individual performance... unless ArenaNet decides to change that. I don't see why they would though. > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > Wvw will become so pointless that we might as well do pve. > We'll have to agree to disagree on this one. WvW will have the exact same points to me that it does currently: Fun fights, Sieges, Defenses, etc. > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > It's like oh if ur not in a guild you don't matter, you're not a person. > I'm in a dead guild. I'm literally the only one who has logged on in months. I don't feel I'm being treated like I don't matter or I'm not a person. > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > Here play with random people, from servers you despise after 5 years of fighting against them. > I don't despise the people I play against or the servers they reside on. This level of emotional investment seems unhealthy to me. This is like telling someone from wow, oh yes you'll be forced as horde to play with alliance players and also there simply is no horde or alliance anymore, sorry we just got rid of that because of some balancing changes, you don't mind do you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaba.5410 Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > Great well I wil be quitting You sure make a lot of posts for someone who will be quitting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumpin Lumpix.6108 Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 > @"Chaba.5410" said: > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > Great well I wil be quitting > > You sure make a lot of posts for someone who will be quitting. I said I'd quit wvw once it is implemented, it's not implemented yet, and I won't quit gw2 just wvw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Euryon.9248 Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > @"Henry.5713" said: > > This big talk of 'communities' and how they are going to be ripped apart... The real communities - guilds, open tags, handholding guilds and the very rare cases of unified (mostly small) servers are the ones who will benefit the most here.The current system, with it's waves of bandwagoners, overstacked top tier servers and nonsensical links is a mess in comparison. Hardly enjoyable to anyone but those few loners already stacked on the winning side. > > Great well I wil be quitting and it's not because I'm a bandwagoner or because I care about my server coming in 1st at the end of the week. If I feel this way, trust me others do too. Trust me, the number of people who are excited to be coming back to wvw because of the proposed changes will absolutely overwhelm the tantrum-throwing, foot-stamping few who refuse to give it a chance and claim apocalypse now for wvw. Your mind is so closed that there's no point in even discussing this further. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumpin Lumpix.6108 Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 > @"Euryon.9248" said: > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > @"Henry.5713" said: > > > This big talk of 'communities' and how they are going to be ripped apart... The real communities - guilds, open tags, handholding guilds and the very rare cases of unified (mostly small) servers are the ones who will benefit the most here.The current system, with it's waves of bandwagoners, overstacked top tier servers and nonsensical links is a mess in comparison. Hardly enjoyable to anyone but those few loners already stacked on the winning side. > > > > Great well I wil be quitting and it's not because I'm a bandwagoner or because I care about my server coming in 1st at the end of the week. If I feel this way, trust me others do too. > > Trust me, the number of people who are excited to be coming back to wvw because of the proposed changes will absolutely overwhelm the tantrum-throwing, foot-stamping few who refuse to give it a chance and claim apocalypse now for wvw. Your mind is so closed that there's no point in even discussing this further. > OK good, then when wvw tanks due to adamancy and refusal of its player base to listen to people's concerns, I won't be too upset. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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