Brewergamer.8357 Posted February 3, 2018 Share Posted February 3, 2018 First off I want to say **I love GW2** and I think it is a **great game**. However after coming back from a few years of not playing, I noticed their business model changed radically. Now they are selling specializations?! There's no denying that someone who does not purchase these specs has a severe disadvantage against those who do. Guild Wars 2 was doing great, it's still a great game but.. selling overpowered specs is something I highly disagree with. I am happy to spend money on GW2, I already have purchased the Heart Of Thorns expansion but.. I just feel it is quite wrong, and very pay to win, to sell these specs to players in order to be viable in pvp. They need to find another way to sell expansions to make the business model fair again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrubySzymek.1362 Posted February 3, 2018 Share Posted February 3, 2018 Game is B2P. You are expected to buy expansions. GW2 is not P2W. Yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brewergamer.8357 Posted February 3, 2018 Author Share Posted February 3, 2018 > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > Game is B2P. You are expected to buy expansions. GW2 is not P2W. Yet. Are you denying the fact that someone who purchases no expansions at all, has a disadvantage against those who have access to all the elite specs? That is literally paying for an advantage lol. If PAYING FOR AN ADVANTAGE is not pay to win, then NOTHING is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrubySzymek.1362 Posted February 3, 2018 Share Posted February 3, 2018 Full game means having all expansion. You are expected to buy them. If you don't, you are not playing full game which means you can't expect being equal in power to someone playing full game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brewergamer.8357 Posted February 3, 2018 Author Share Posted February 3, 2018 > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > Full game means having all expansion. You are expected to buy them. If you don't, you are not playing full game which means you can't expect being equal in power to someone playing full game. Not answering my question, is paying for the expansion paying for an advantage or not? lol. Evidently, it is. Pay-to-win=Paying for an advantage over other players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ayakaru.6583 Posted February 3, 2018 Share Posted February 3, 2018 > @"Brewergamer.8357" said: > Now they are selling specializations?! There's no denying that someone who does not purchase these specs has a severe disadvantage against those who do. They’re not selling elite specializations, they’re selling expansions. Its no different from any other game. Would you call WoW a pay2win game as well? As every expansion adds new classes and races? I get the vague feeling this is about pvp, where most people use elite specializations one way or another Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artemis.6781 Posted February 3, 2018 Share Posted February 3, 2018 Then you haven't played a true P2W game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obtena.7952 Posted February 3, 2018 Share Posted February 3, 2018 > @"Brewergamer.8357" said: > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > Game is B2P. You are expected to buy expansions. GW2 is not P2W. Yet. > > Are you denying the fact that someone who purchases no expansions at all, has a disadvantage against those who have access to all the elite specs? That is literally paying for an advantage lol. If PAYING FOR AN ADVANTAGE is not pay to win, then NOTHING is. If you don't like what you see, don't play. There are now two expansions with this model and i suspect not the last. It's not worth arguing with you the definition of pay to win; I will just say yours is very all-encompassing; you can argue ANY expansion for any game is P2W if we go by what you think. What is important here isn't that you do or don't like the model Anet has for GW2; it's that you have choice and can exercise them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrubySzymek.1362 Posted February 3, 2018 Share Posted February 3, 2018 > @"Brewergamer.8357" said: > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > Full game means having all expansion. You are expected to buy them. If you don't, you are not playing full game which means you can't expect being equal in power to someone playing full game. > > Not answering my question, is paying for the expansion paying for an advantage or not? lol. Evidently, it is. Pay-to-win=Paying for an advantage over other players. It is or it isnt. You never know because anet balances the game randomly and your OP spec can be thrown to trashbin in 1 patch any time. Bying expansion is literally gambling here. You hope for getting good specs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brewergamer.8357 Posted February 3, 2018 Author Share Posted February 3, 2018 > @"artemis.6781" said: > Then you haven't played a true P2W game. I don't know of anybody that can name a "true P2W game" that isn't as significant as buying entire specs that have an overwhelming advantage over non-$$$ core specs lol. This game was supposed to have flexibility of specs, not forcing you to use certain ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brewergamer.8357 Posted February 3, 2018 Author Share Posted February 3, 2018 > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > @"Brewergamer.8357" said: > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > Full game means having all expansion. You are expected to buy them. If you don't, you are not playing full game which means you can't expect being equal in power to someone playing full game. > > > > Not answering my question, is paying for the expansion paying for an advantage or not? lol. Evidently, it is. Pay-to-win=Paying for an advantage over other players. > > It is or it isnt. You never know because anet balances the game randomly and your OP spec can be thrown to trashbin in 1 patch any time. Bying expansion is literally gambling here. You hope for getting good specs. You'd hope the reason to buy an expansion would be for content, not for an advantage in pvp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrubySzymek.1362 Posted February 3, 2018 Share Posted February 3, 2018 > @"Brewergamer.8357" said: > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > @"Brewergamer.8357" said: > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > Full game means having all expansion. You are expected to buy them. If you don't, you are not playing full game which means you can't expect being equal in power to someone playing full game. > > > > > > Not answering my question, is paying for the expansion paying for an advantage or not? lol. Evidently, it is. Pay-to-win=Paying for an advantage over other players. > > > > It is or it isnt. You never know because anet balances the game randomly and your OP spec can be thrown to trashbin in 1 patch any time. Bying expansion is literally gambling here. You hope for getting good specs. > > You'd hope the reason to buy an expansion would be for content, not for an advantage in pvp. PvP is irrelevant mode. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tasida.4085 Posted February 3, 2018 Share Posted February 3, 2018 LOL@P2W, this is not one of those games......I could suggest a few if someone actually wanted a P2W game so they would know the real difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brewergamer.8357 Posted February 3, 2018 Author Share Posted February 3, 2018 Facts: Paying for an expansion gives you an advantage in PvP over those who have not paid for these specs. Pay-To-Win: Paying for an advantage. That is literally the definition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artemis.6781 Posted February 3, 2018 Share Posted February 3, 2018 P2W to look pretty. That's about it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrubySzymek.1362 Posted February 3, 2018 Share Posted February 3, 2018 > @"Brewergamer.8357" said: > Facts: Paying for an expansion gives you an advantage in PvP over those who have not paid for these specs. > Pay-To-Win: Paying for an advantage. > That is literally the definition. Ok. Now what? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rembar.7298 Posted February 3, 2018 Share Posted February 3, 2018 Yeah, that's completely true. GW2 is a P2W because you have to pay the expansions for have elite specs, like LoL with champions or skins with sunglasses to counter a Leona. Or like WoW, to have the races and classes that are stronger. All this games are P2W, of course. Because nobody can play old things and win. It's completely impossible. (sarcasm) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obtena.7952 Posted February 3, 2018 Share Posted February 3, 2018 > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > @"Brewergamer.8357" said: > > Facts: Paying for an expansion gives you an advantage in PvP over those who have not paid for these specs. > > Pay-To-Win: Paying for an advantage. > > That is literally the definition. > > Ok. Now what? Exactly ... This thread is just a rant about not liking P2W .. OK that's nice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STIHL.2489 Posted February 4, 2018 Share Posted February 4, 2018 Expansions have never been included in the P2W cries, as it was understood they would expand the game and give the players who bought it a path to more power, often in in the form of higher levels, better gear, and more advancements open to them. This has been the way of MMOs, since MMO's. Now, I hate to say it, but after seeing people cry about how a mount skin was P2W, I am not even remotely phased to see Expansions suddenly get called P2W. But, to call an Expansion P2W, just wasters down the term to uselessness, to point that we will all eventually safely ignore any claims of such, assuming that most of us haven't already. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randulf.7614 Posted February 4, 2018 Share Posted February 4, 2018 Whether it is defined as P2W, this is the intended and accepted business model. The introduction of elites has allowed for deeper and harder content since the arrival of expansions. Sure, that might mean an advantage in competitive, but I can't really imagine most players would expect a fully free to play account to be on equal terms with a fully paid account without personal skill added into the equation. F2P players can still play and win in pvp, it's just harder to do so. I don't see that as an issue, more an incentive to sell more copies of the expansions - which is what a business would want to do. And as a customer, I want to see more players encouraged to invest/buy into expansions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glacial.9516 Posted February 4, 2018 Share Posted February 4, 2018 I wouldn't necessarily call it pay to win (and it's a far cry from your typical pay to win content) but it's hard to deny that elite specs are a major power increase (in most cases) above the normal specs. That's not to say it's impossible to play without them, but it will certainly be harder. I can understand why Anet does it and don't disagree with linking specs to expansions (especially when the specs and expansion content match thematically) but it would be nice to see better balance with the base specs. My initial impression of Elite specs was that they would all be sidegrades that change a class's gameplay while maintaining a similar level of balance. This was obviously false. I think it was a questionable decision to make them upgrades instead of sidegrades, but it's hard to say just how that would have impacted expansion sales. I can only say for me personally that while new specializations are a very appealing aspect of expansions and are a major factor pushing me to buy them, the increase in power is not and can actually be a turn-off if I believe it will take away useful choices instead of adding to them. All-in-all I find most of the elite spec mechanics to be quite fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ImTasty.2163 Posted February 4, 2018 Share Posted February 4, 2018 > @"Brewergamer.8357" said: > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > Full game means having all expansion. You are expected to buy them. If you don't, you are not playing full game which means you can't expect being equal in power to someone playing full game. > > Not answering my question, is paying for the expansion paying for an advantage or not? lol. Evidently, it is. Pay-to-win=Paying for an advantage over other players. Paying for an expansion is not pay to win. I still don't understand how people have twisted the definition of pay to win to include expansions but it needs to stop. At this point literally any MMO that has paid expansions would be pay to win which means every MMO is pay to win which begs the question of why complain about it if it's been an industry standard since the very first time an expansion was created? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catty.3894 Posted February 4, 2018 Share Posted February 4, 2018 Having been on pvp focused multiplayers I know making competitiveness fully achievable without rl money altogether is very good for the game's popularity/accessibility, ergo queue health. But in terms of mmos, gw2 is literally leading in terms of how much/quality you get for no payment/some payment, I'd say very obviously so, mmos also cost more to run/manage than mobas as far as I knew. The way I think about it, they should balance base specs in future, after they get a decent grasp on current issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pifil.5193 Posted February 4, 2018 Share Posted February 4, 2018 > @"ImTasty.2163" said: > > @"Brewergamer.8357" said: > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > Full game means having all expansion. You are expected to buy them. If you don't, you are not playing full game which means you can't expect being equal in power to someone playing full game. > > > > Not answering my question, is paying for the expansion paying for an advantage or not? lol. Evidently, it is. Pay-to-win=Paying for an advantage over other players. > > Paying for an expansion is not pay to win. I still don't understand how people have twisted the definition of pay to win to include expansions but it needs to stop. At this point literally any MMO that has paid expansions would be pay to win which means every MMO is pay to win which begs the question of why complain about it if it's been an industry standard since the very first time an expansion was created? Not just any MMO, just about any DLC for any game makes them P2W with this kind of all encompassing definition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vayne.8563 Posted February 4, 2018 Share Posted February 4, 2018 > @"Brewergamer.8357" said: > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > Game is B2P. You are expected to buy expansions. GW2 is not P2W. Yet. > > Are you denying the fact that someone who purchases no expansions at all, has a disadvantage against those who have access to all the elite specs? That is literally paying for an advantage lol. If PAYING FOR AN ADVANTAGE is not pay to win, then NOTHING is. Name an MMO, any MMO where you have no advantage buying the expansion. Most MMOs raise the level cap which gives you a clear advantage over lower level players. They introduce new tiers of gear. Expansions have never been considered in and of themselves pay to win and they all raise the level cap. If anything this game is better than most in this regard because even if you're at a disadvantage you can still compete. That's not true in most games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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