Saracen.2691 Posted February 6, 2018 Share Posted February 6, 2018 > @"ZDragon.3046" said: > > @"Saracen.2691" said: > > > @"ZDragon.3046" said: > > > > @"Saracen.2691" said: > > > > > @"ZDragon.3046" said: > > > > > > @"Saracen.2691" said: > > > > > > > @"ZDragon.3046" said: > > > > > > > > @"Saracen.2691" said: > > > > > > > > > @"ZDragon.3046" said: > > > > > > > > > What kind of conditions were getting hit with that made loosing one convert that much of a big deal in PVE? :anguished: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Any of them that do damage. Scourge is a glass cannon that already had the safety of a shroud taken away and a core part of your DPS is the barrier heal which is used not for healing, because it isn't a good heal, but for the sadistic searing proc. Now its main source of not just getting burnt down instantly by conditions has been gutted. Class can no longer do any of the damage it is supposed to do without dragging down the entire party. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In the long run people should have asked for new shroud years ago instead of saying TAKE SHROUD AWAY AND GIVES US MORE DAMAGE. Anet does this now the problem is being too glassy for the damage. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think if people asked for core fixes instead of meta fixes back to back to back necro might actually get somewhere but thats just my opinion. I'll keep my reaper or even core anyday over scourge. I disliked it from the moment I saw it lacked a true shroud. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As I've said before its a spec that requires more management without the proper reward for that management. > > > > > > > It lacks a power option yet reaper still has a moderate condition option. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Maybe with the next xpac we get a shroud thats the perfect mix of reaper dps yet has better sustain than core. > > > > > > > > > > > > ANet and perfect aren't things that belong in the same sentence, let alone the same dimension. It'll never happen. > > > > > > > > > > No game devs will ever get anything perfect no matter what game you play what profession or class you play how you spec that class its never going to be perfect. > > > > > > > > Perfection obviously can't be achieved. But that doesn't mean they should strive for the opposite and ruin things because they don't understand how to balance classes. > > > > > > > > > @"Lexan.5930" said: > > > > > > > > > My dps in raids is gonna come down compared to Condi rangers .... Again >< > > > > > > > >  > > > > > > > > Come down again? It already WAS down. Now it's simply out. > > > > > > Raids are not the only component of the game and in almost every other component of the game you will never achieve maximum Dps. Nore sustain it for long extended periods of time. > > > Ever sense raids launched its all people cry about. HOW IS MY DPS IN RAIDS EFFECTED instead of looking at new potential in playstyle, mechanics, and overall flavor. > > > > > > The game was designed without the idea of raids for end game content but anet caved and done this to likely extend the life of the game. > > > Yes raids are nice and are an important part of the game but if people are only asking for changes because they want to be on top of the Raid DPS meter then well maybe you should play a game were every class has a closer gap to doing the same amount of dps in endgame content. But then it wont be competitive and you wont have any interest what so ever. :unamused: > > > > These benchmarks are, however, the practical limit of what your class can do. The higher your practical limit, the better you can perform from encounter-to-encounter generally. They are therefore perfectly valid. You can clearly see Scourge was already suffering and those numbers don't even take into account survivability or prolonged life force usage. Now Scourge, the only viability necromancer had, got nerfed to the point where yesterday morning it had been my favourite class and this morning I can't force myself to even do my daily T4 fractals and logged out after the first one along with a Chrono friend of mine who felt the same way about their class. > > What do you mean the better you can perform from encounter to encounter. Performance should mostly be on the player and his level of skill. While there are some limitations to this its not all about numbers. > > Yes some builds simply do not work at all and there will be builds that don't work. I want to some what discredit your chrono friend as mesmer just got a massive amount of changes and there will need to be an adjustment period for that. Mesmer has one of the highest skill caps in the game when you consider its optimal level of play. If you cant force yourself todo your fractals thats kind of your fault not the dev teams. Yes absolutely a players performance should be dictated by his level of skill. But have you ever heard the phrase 'A carpenter is only as good as his tools'? You can't work miracles when every attempt to destroy your tools is being made. No, it isn't my fault, because the reason why I can't force myself to do it anymore is because ANet has sucked the enjoyment out of it because of their inability to patch things with more subtlety than a jackhammer. I was perfectly happy to do fractals every day without fail before this patch. I have taken several month long breaks from necromancer when ANet has done things like this before but I'm sick of it now and want them to once just get their act together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genesis.5169 Posted February 6, 2018 Share Posted February 6, 2018 Necros are plague by there class mechanic, until Anet addresses they way how they apply damage via shades people will continue to complain about them. Anet refuses to accept that the design direction they took for necros in PoF is OP in all forms of PvP due to how shades work. It's truely a shame all they had to do was make shades killable and mission accomplished. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZDragon.3046 Posted February 6, 2018 Author Share Posted February 6, 2018 > @"Saracen.2691" said: > > @"ZDragon.3046" said: > > > @"Saracen.2691" said: > > > > @"ZDragon.3046" said: > > > > > @"Saracen.2691" said: > > > > > > @"ZDragon.3046" said: > > > > > > > @"Saracen.2691" said: > > > > > > > > @"ZDragon.3046" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Saracen.2691" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"ZDragon.3046" said: > > > > > > > > > > What kind of conditions were getting hit with that made loosing one convert that much of a big deal in PVE? :anguished: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Any of them that do damage. Scourge is a glass cannon that already had the safety of a shroud taken away and a core part of your DPS is the barrier heal which is used not for healing, because it isn't a good heal, but for the sadistic searing proc. Now its main source of not just getting burnt down instantly by conditions has been gutted. Class can no longer do any of the damage it is supposed to do without dragging down the entire party. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In the long run people should have asked for new shroud years ago instead of saying TAKE SHROUD AWAY AND GIVES US MORE DAMAGE. Anet does this now the problem is being too glassy for the damage. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think if people asked for core fixes instead of meta fixes back to back to back necro might actually get somewhere but thats just my opinion. I'll keep my reaper or even core anyday over scourge. I disliked it from the moment I saw it lacked a true shroud. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As I've said before its a spec that requires more management without the proper reward for that management. > > > > > > > > It lacks a power option yet reaper still has a moderate condition option. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Maybe with the next xpac we get a shroud thats the perfect mix of reaper dps yet has better sustain than core. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ANet and perfect aren't things that belong in the same sentence, let alone the same dimension. It'll never happen. > > > > > > > > > > > > No game devs will ever get anything perfect no matter what game you play what profession or class you play how you spec that class its never going to be perfect. > > > > > > > > > > Perfection obviously can't be achieved. But that doesn't mean they should strive for the opposite and ruin things because they don't understand how to balance classes. > > > > > > > > > > > @"Lexan.5930" said: > > > > > > > > > > > My dps in raids is gonna come down compared to Condi rangers .... Again >< > > > > > > > > > >  > > > > > > > > > > Come down again? It already WAS down. Now it's simply out. > > > > > > > > Raids are not the only component of the game and in almost every other component of the game you will never achieve maximum Dps. Nore sustain it for long extended periods of time. > > > > Ever sense raids launched its all people cry about. HOW IS MY DPS IN RAIDS EFFECTED instead of looking at new potential in playstyle, mechanics, and overall flavor. > > > > > > > > The game was designed without the idea of raids for end game content but anet caved and done this to likely extend the life of the game. > > > > Yes raids are nice and are an important part of the game but if people are only asking for changes because they want to be on top of the Raid DPS meter then well maybe you should play a game were every class has a closer gap to doing the same amount of dps in endgame content. But then it wont be competitive and you wont have any interest what so ever. :unamused: > > > > > > These benchmarks are, however, the practical limit of what your class can do. The higher your practical limit, the better you can perform from encounter-to-encounter generally. They are therefore perfectly valid. You can clearly see Scourge was already suffering and those numbers don't even take into account survivability or prolonged life force usage. Now Scourge, the only viability necromancer had, got nerfed to the point where yesterday morning it had been my favourite class and this morning I can't force myself to even do my daily T4 fractals and logged out after the first one along with a Chrono friend of mine who felt the same way about their class. > > > > What do you mean the better you can perform from encounter to encounter. Performance should mostly be on the player and his level of skill. While there are some limitations to this its not all about numbers. > > > > Yes some builds simply do not work at all and there will be builds that don't work. I want to some what discredit your chrono friend as mesmer just got a massive amount of changes and there will need to be an adjustment period for that. Mesmer has one of the highest skill caps in the game when you consider its optimal level of play. If you cant force yourself todo your fractals thats kind of your fault not the dev teams. > > Yes absolutely a players performance should be dictated by his level of skill. But have you ever heard the phrase 'A carpenter is only as good as his tools'? You can't work miracles when every attempt to destroy your tools is being made. > > No, it isn't my fault, because the reason why I can't force myself to do it anymore is because ANet has sucked the enjoyment out of it because of their inability to patch things with more subtlety than a jackhammer. I was perfectly happy to do fractals every day without fail before this patch. I have taken several month long breaks from necromancer when ANet has done things like this before but I'm sick of it now and want them to once just get their act together. Then again a carpenter can have the best tools and also do a bad job as well. This is basically the opposite of what you just said to me. I feel that you love scourge and you love necro i feel you. But 1 patch of blunt notes should not be sucking the enjoyment from gameplay out of you. Even more so when it comes to PVE gameplay. I could understand if you were a very competitive person and these changes hinder you in player vs player. But saying I CANT ENJOY THIS GAME AFTER THIS 1 PATCH. Is a bit much. :anguished: While i dont encourage simply rolling to flavor of the meta you should consider actually playing to have fun and simply enjoy the mechanics and flavor of the game. I simply dont see how these changes could hinder your effectiveness in pve by that much. I felt more disappointment with the scourge reveal than I have with any of the following balance patches but thats just me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vicious.5683 Posted February 6, 2018 Share Posted February 6, 2018 I'm so glad I'm not playing this game anymore :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nekretaal.6485 Posted February 6, 2018 Share Posted February 6, 2018 Obviously Scourge Nerfs are overkill. The 0.5 second delay and tell before Scourge Damage hits is more than enough of a fix for Pvp (and WvW). The problem was always that enemies couldn't counter play the Scourge, not that the Scourge was too strong. Now it's weaker and will never hit an enemy who is paying attention. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marxx.5021 Posted February 6, 2018 Share Posted February 6, 2018 > @"Galmac.4680" said: > The 0.5s cast time on F2 to F4 feels so wrong and annoying, and F2 got so useless now... it does literally nothing, just burns down the life force. This is the final nail in the coffin that makes me switch back to reaper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZDragon.3046 Posted February 6, 2018 Author Share Posted February 6, 2018 > @"Genesis.5169" said: > Necros are plague by there class mechanic, until Anet addresses they way how they apply damage via shades people will continue to complain about them. Anet refuses to accept that the design direction they took for necros in PoF is OP in all forms of PvP due to how shades work. > > It's truely a shame all they had to do was make shades killable and miss accomplished. This seems moderately accurate. Based on the replies I saw from the Dev teams after the scourge bug fixes. Those things they said they would consider have yet to be implemented into the game. *Throwing power back into scourge. *Considering how much support scourge should be/ have etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZDragon.3046 Posted February 6, 2018 Author Share Posted February 6, 2018 > @"vicious.5683" said: > I'm so glad I'm not playing this game anymore :) LOL there is that option too. This is not the only game i play so i mean if im ever unhappy with it or something at the moment there are other games on the table. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saracen.2691 Posted February 6, 2018 Share Posted February 6, 2018 > @"ZDragon.3046" said: > > @"Saracen.2691" said: > > > @"ZDragon.3046" said: > > > > @"Saracen.2691" said: > > > > > @"ZDragon.3046" said: > > > > > > @"Saracen.2691" said: > > > > > > > @"ZDragon.3046" said: > > > > > > > > @"Saracen.2691" said: > > > > > > > > > @"ZDragon.3046" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Saracen.2691" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"ZDragon.3046" said: > > > > > > > > > > > What kind of conditions were getting hit with that made loosing one convert that much of a big deal in PVE? :anguished: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Any of them that do damage. Scourge is a glass cannon that already had the safety of a shroud taken away and a core part of your DPS is the barrier heal which is used not for healing, because it isn't a good heal, but for the sadistic searing proc. Now its main source of not just getting burnt down instantly by conditions has been gutted. Class can no longer do any of the damage it is supposed to do without dragging down the entire party. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In the long run people should have asked for new shroud years ago instead of saying TAKE SHROUD AWAY AND GIVES US MORE DAMAGE. Anet does this now the problem is being too glassy for the damage. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think if people asked for core fixes instead of meta fixes back to back to back necro might actually get somewhere but thats just my opinion. I'll keep my reaper or even core anyday over scourge. I disliked it from the moment I saw it lacked a true shroud. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As I've said before its a spec that requires more management without the proper reward for that management. > > > > > > > > > It lacks a power option yet reaper still has a moderate condition option. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Maybe with the next xpac we get a shroud thats the perfect mix of reaper dps yet has better sustain than core. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ANet and perfect aren't things that belong in the same sentence, let alone the same dimension. It'll never happen. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No game devs will ever get anything perfect no matter what game you play what profession or class you play how you spec that class its never going to be perfect. > > > > > > > > > > > > Perfection obviously can't be achieved. But that doesn't mean they should strive for the opposite and ruin things because they don't understand how to balance classes. > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Lexan.5930" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > My dps in raids is gonna come down compared to Condi rangers .... Again >< > > > > > > > > > > > >  > > > > > > > > > > > > Come down again? It already WAS down. Now it's simply out. > > > > > > > > > > Raids are not the only component of the game and in almost every other component of the game you will never achieve maximum Dps. Nore sustain it for long extended periods of time. > > > > > Ever sense raids launched its all people cry about. HOW IS MY DPS IN RAIDS EFFECTED instead of looking at new potential in playstyle, mechanics, and overall flavor. > > > > > > > > > > The game was designed without the idea of raids for end game content but anet caved and done this to likely extend the life of the game. > > > > > Yes raids are nice and are an important part of the game but if people are only asking for changes because they want to be on top of the Raid DPS meter then well maybe you should play a game were every class has a closer gap to doing the same amount of dps in endgame content. But then it wont be competitive and you wont have any interest what so ever. :unamused: > > > > > > > > These benchmarks are, however, the practical limit of what your class can do. The higher your practical limit, the better you can perform from encounter-to-encounter generally. They are therefore perfectly valid. You can clearly see Scourge was already suffering and those numbers don't even take into account survivability or prolonged life force usage. Now Scourge, the only viability necromancer had, got nerfed to the point where yesterday morning it had been my favourite class and this morning I can't force myself to even do my daily T4 fractals and logged out after the first one along with a Chrono friend of mine who felt the same way about their class. > > > > > > What do you mean the better you can perform from encounter to encounter. Performance should mostly be on the player and his level of skill. While there are some limitations to this its not all about numbers. > > > > > > Yes some builds simply do not work at all and there will be builds that don't work. I want to some what discredit your chrono friend as mesmer just got a massive amount of changes and there will need to be an adjustment period for that. Mesmer has one of the highest skill caps in the game when you consider its optimal level of play. If you cant force yourself todo your fractals thats kind of your fault not the dev teams. > > > > Yes absolutely a players performance should be dictated by his level of skill. But have you ever heard the phrase 'A carpenter is only as good as his tools'? You can't work miracles when every attempt to destroy your tools is being made. > > > > No, it isn't my fault, because the reason why I can't force myself to do it anymore is because ANet has sucked the enjoyment out of it because of their inability to patch things with more subtlety than a jackhammer. I was perfectly happy to do fractals every day without fail before this patch. I have taken several month long breaks from necromancer when ANet has done things like this before but I'm sick of it now and want them to once just get their act together. > > Then again a carpenter can have the best tools and also do a bad job as well. This is basically the opposite of what you just said to me. > I feel that you love scourge and you love necro i feel you. But 1 patch of blunt notes should not be sucking the enjoyment from gameplay out of you. Even more so when it comes to PVE gameplay. I could understand if you were a very competitive person and these changes hinder you in player vs player. But saying I CANT ENJOY THIS GAME AFTER THIS 1 PATCH. Is a bit much. :anguished: While i dont encourage simply rolling to flavor of the meta you should consider actually playing to have fun and simply enjoy the mechanics and flavor of the game. > I simply dont see how these changes could hinder your effectiveness in pve by that much. > > I felt more disappointment with the scourge reveal than I have with any of the following balance patches but thats just me. It isn't the opposite of what I just said to you. I can be the best carpenter in the world and these patches are making me unable to perform at my peak because my survival has been gutted. Any condi hitting me, and when they do hit me they don't hit gently, is going to burn me down far more quickly over time and I don't have the heal to make up for it unless I want to gut my DPS. It has put me in an unwinnable situation. It isn't one patch of blunt notes. It is patch after patch for years upon years. ANet has always given necro the short end of the stick and now, at times like these, when our options are already so limited, they start axing them off even more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZDragon.3046 Posted February 6, 2018 Author Share Posted February 6, 2018 > @"Saracen.2691" said: > > @"ZDragon.3046" said: > > > @"Saracen.2691" said: > > > > @"ZDragon.3046" said: > > > > > @"Saracen.2691" said: > > > > > > @"ZDragon.3046" said: > > > > > > > @"Saracen.2691" said: > > > > > > > > @"ZDragon.3046" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Saracen.2691" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"ZDragon.3046" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Saracen.2691" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"ZDragon.3046" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > What kind of conditions were getting hit with that made loosing one convert that much of a big deal in PVE? :anguished: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Any of them that do damage. Scourge is a glass cannon that already had the safety of a shroud taken away and a core part of your DPS is the barrier heal which is used not for healing, because it isn't a good heal, but for the sadistic searing proc. Now its main source of not just getting burnt down instantly by conditions has been gutted. Class can no longer do any of the damage it is supposed to do without dragging down the entire party. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In the long run people should have asked for new shroud years ago instead of saying TAKE SHROUD AWAY AND GIVES US MORE DAMAGE. Anet does this now the problem is being too glassy for the damage. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think if people asked for core fixes instead of meta fixes back to back to back necro might actually get somewhere but thats just my opinion. I'll keep my reaper or even core anyday over scourge. I disliked it from the moment I saw it lacked a true shroud. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As I've said before its a spec that requires more management without the proper reward for that management. > > > > > > > > > > It lacks a power option yet reaper still has a moderate condition option. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Maybe with the next xpac we get a shroud thats the perfect mix of reaper dps yet has better sustain than core. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ANet and perfect aren't things that belong in the same sentence, let alone the same dimension. It'll never happen. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No game devs will ever get anything perfect no matter what game you play what profession or class you play how you spec that class its never going to be perfect. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Perfection obviously can't be achieved. But that doesn't mean they should strive for the opposite and ruin things because they don't understand how to balance classes. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Lexan.5930" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My dps in raids is gonna come down compared to Condi rangers .... Again >< > > > > > > > > > > > > > >  > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Come down again? It already WAS down. Now it's simply out. > > > > > > > > > > > > Raids are not the only component of the game and in almost every other component of the game you will never achieve maximum Dps. Nore sustain it for long extended periods of time. > > > > > > Ever sense raids launched its all people cry about. HOW IS MY DPS IN RAIDS EFFECTED instead of looking at new potential in playstyle, mechanics, and overall flavor. > > > > > > > > > > > > The game was designed without the idea of raids for end game content but anet caved and done this to likely extend the life of the game. > > > > > > Yes raids are nice and are an important part of the game but if people are only asking for changes because they want to be on top of the Raid DPS meter then well maybe you should play a game were every class has a closer gap to doing the same amount of dps in endgame content. But then it wont be competitive and you wont have any interest what so ever. :unamused: > > > > > > > > > > These benchmarks are, however, the practical limit of what your class can do. The higher your practical limit, the better you can perform from encounter-to-encounter generally. They are therefore perfectly valid. You can clearly see Scourge was already suffering and those numbers don't even take into account survivability or prolonged life force usage. Now Scourge, the only viability necromancer had, got nerfed to the point where yesterday morning it had been my favourite class and this morning I can't force myself to even do my daily T4 fractals and logged out after the first one along with a Chrono friend of mine who felt the same way about their class. > > > > > > > > What do you mean the better you can perform from encounter to encounter. Performance should mostly be on the player and his level of skill. While there are some limitations to this its not all about numbers. > > > > > > > > Yes some builds simply do not work at all and there will be builds that don't work. I want to some what discredit your chrono friend as mesmer just got a massive amount of changes and there will need to be an adjustment period for that. Mesmer has one of the highest skill caps in the game when you consider its optimal level of play. If you cant force yourself todo your fractals thats kind of your fault not the dev teams. > > > > > > Yes absolutely a players performance should be dictated by his level of skill. But have you ever heard the phrase 'A carpenter is only as good as his tools'? You can't work miracles when every attempt to destroy your tools is being made. > > > > > > No, it isn't my fault, because the reason why I can't force myself to do it anymore is because ANet has sucked the enjoyment out of it because of their inability to patch things with more subtlety than a jackhammer. I was perfectly happy to do fractals every day without fail before this patch. I have taken several month long breaks from necromancer when ANet has done things like this before but I'm sick of it now and want them to once just get their act together. > > > > Then again a carpenter can have the best tools and also do a bad job as well. This is basically the opposite of what you just said to me. > > I feel that you love scourge and you love necro i feel you. But 1 patch of blunt notes should not be sucking the enjoyment from gameplay out of you. Even more so when it comes to PVE gameplay. I could understand if you were a very competitive person and these changes hinder you in player vs player. But saying I CANT ENJOY THIS GAME AFTER THIS 1 PATCH. Is a bit much. :anguished: While i dont encourage simply rolling to flavor of the meta you should consider actually playing to have fun and simply enjoy the mechanics and flavor of the game. > > I simply dont see how these changes could hinder your effectiveness in pve by that much. > > > > I felt more disappointment with the scourge reveal than I have with any of the following balance patches but thats just me. > > It isn't the opposite of what I just said to you. I can be the best carpenter in the world and these patches are making me unable to perform at my peak because my survival has been gutted. Any condi hitting me, and when they do hit me they don't hit gently, is going to burn me down far more quickly over time and I don't have the heal to make up for it unless I want to gut my DPS. It has put me in an unwinnable situation. > It isn't one patch of blunt notes. It is patch after patch for years upon years. ANet has always given necro the short end of the stick and now, at times like these, when our options are already so limited, they start axing them off even more. Ok first of all to call yourself the best is a long shot. If you are the best then you work with what you have. Ive seen people do amazing things in game and in real life with absolutely crappy tools. Art is an easy example of this. You can have the finest brush and the best paint yet your work can look like a sloppy mess. A man can take water color and paint with his fingertips and produce a breathtaking master peace in minutes. Do you enjoy Necromancer Period no if ands or butts. If yes then you play regardless of what comes down the pipe. If no then play another profession. :U but don't sit here and say you are the best but you cant be the best because your tools are not the best. You had to know some where down the line that if Core necro does not have the best tools anything that branches off of it wont have the best tools. Nothing is Unwinnable... ok maybe core rev without glint thats pretty unwinnable atm.... XD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZeftheWicked.3076 Posted February 6, 2018 Share Posted February 6, 2018 > @"ZDragon.3046" said: > > @"ZeftheWicked.3076" said: > > It is, becuase of path of corruption nerf. > > It screws over reaper (as if the black-hole levels of life force drain per second didn't do enough to them already). > > This only applies when scourge is equipped it does not or should not effect core or reaper according to the notes. ;) I dont consider it a direct nerf to the core profession. > Imo it just means you can use something else now its not like scourge didnt have a ton of other boon converting options :U > > Also it's unjust and undeserved kick in the nuts to PvE scourges. Low cooldown aoe condi to boon conversion was a strong point of scourge's support kit! > What kind of conditions were getting hit with that made loosing one convert that much of a big deal in PVE? :anguished: > > The "one convert" was **the one** because of initially very low cd. Our current party condi cleanse options are still very sketchy and unreliable compared to most. Plague signet - it's a passive and I don't know if it'll pull 2 condies of many ppl at once or just one person while other teammates are still poisoned, bleeding etc Well of Power - they gotta stand in it and wait - two things that rarely happen during a massive PvE fight Unholy Martyr - like plague sig - not sure it pulls 5 condies off 5 ppl, or just 5 condies, being totally random who gets what pulled off if any at all. Necro may be a monster when it comes to getting condies off himself, or using them in other nefarious ways for own gain. But when it comes to party utility we are still in the twilight zone where reliable, predictable and fail-proof cleanses are still few and far between, unlike many others professions with easy, reliable and no brainer cleanses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZDragon.3046 Posted February 6, 2018 Author Share Posted February 6, 2018 > @"ZeftheWicked.3076" said: > > @"ZDragon.3046" said: > > > @"ZeftheWicked.3076" said: > > > It is, becuase of path of corruption nerf. > > > It screws over reaper (as if the black-hole levels of life force drain per second didn't do enough to them already). > > > > This only applies when scourge is equipped it does not or should not effect core or reaper according to the notes. ;) I dont consider it a direct nerf to the core profession. > > Imo it just means you can use something else now its not like scourge didnt have a ton of other boon converting options :U > > > Also it's unjust and undeserved kick in the nuts to PvE scourges. Low cooldown aoe condi to boon conversion was a strong point of scourge's support kit! > > What kind of conditions were getting hit with that made loosing one convert that much of a big deal in PVE? :anguished: > > > > > The "one convert" was **the one** because of initially very low cd. Our current party condi cleanse options are still very sketchy and unreliable compared to most. > > Plague signet - it's a passive and I don't know if it'll pull 2 condies of many ppl at once or just one person while other teammates are still poisoned, bleeding etc > Well of Power - they gotta stand in it and wait - two things that rarely happen during a massive PvE fight > Unholy Martyr - like plague sig - not sure it pulls 5 condies off 5 ppl, or just 5 condies, being totally random who gets what pulled off if any at all. > > Necro may be a monster when it comes to getting condies off himself, or using them in other nefarious ways for own gain. But when it comes to party utility we are still in the twilight zone where reliable, predictable and fail-proof cleanses are still few and far between, unlike many others professions with easy, reliable and no brainer cleanses. > > Valid points when it comes to those other condition pulls. I always thought it was honestly kind of odd that plague signet pulled conditions in the first place in no way shape or form is that benefit to the necromancer passively. Which completely ruins the benefit of the signet. I would think that it would have provided condition resistance or something at least if its going to do that but you know its what eve. Most of the wells are far too outdated and need quality of life updates. Unholy ehhh yeah too much risk for the reward in a serious matter to be honest depending on what you pull you could pretty much kill yourself. I guess i can see the hurt when it comes to scourge aoe condi cleanse and the addition of a .5 cast time. I still have to say i feel it more so for pvp'ers than pve. But the rest is meh to me but then again i am a bit bias i thought scourge was a bad idea from near release from the moment the trailer mentioned giving up shroud. and in the same note mentioned them being supporter. The devs then release a busted version of scourge which was over performing due to a bug for several weeks which left a bad taste in the communities mouth of anyone not playing scourge. Even after this patch i promise you you will still have people feeling the lash from scourges initial release and people still calming that its a problem and that its too strong. This is when you know you let a bug linger too long that the community has a super strict hate for the profession. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dadnir.5038 Posted February 6, 2018 Share Posted February 6, 2018 > @"Lexan.5930" said: > Power necro got some fun changes, blood got a wicked nice buff that makes it a pick over soul reapin for reaper. I'm not sure you can really qualify _vampiric presence_ change a "wicked nice buff". Maybe it's a buff in a 1v1 but that's gonna be all there is to it. The 0.5 ICD is a killer and the fact that the damage component still don't crit make it insignifiant in PvE. Never forget that previously you could hit 5 foes more than once every 0.5 seconds. Which was more than150 extra damage and 150 extra health per 0.5 second. Now it's a fixed amount which isn't even at that level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZeftheWicked.3076 Posted February 6, 2018 Share Posted February 6, 2018 > @"ZDragon.3046" said: > Valid points when it comes to those other condition pulls. I always thought it was honestly kind of odd that plague signet pulled conditions in the first place in no way shape or form is that benefit to the necromancer passively. Which completely ruins the benefit of the signet. I would think that it would have provided condition resistance or something at least if its going to do that but you know its what eve. > Most of the wells are far too outdated and need quality of life updates. > Unholy ehhh yeah too much risk for the reward in a serious matter to be honest depending on what you pull you could pretty much kill yourself. > > I guess i can see the hurt when it comes to scourge aoe condi cleanse and the addition of a .5 cast time. I still have to say i feel it more so for pvp'ers than pve. > > But the rest is meh to me but then again i am a bit bias i thought scourge was a bad idea from near release from the moment the trailer mentioned giving up shroud. and in the same note mentioned them being supporter. > The devs then release a busted version of scourge which was over performing due to a bug for several weeks which left a bad taste in the communities mouth of anyone not playing scourge. > Even after this patch i promise you you will still have people feeling the lash from scourges initial release and people still calming that its a problem and that its too strong. This is when you know you let a bug linger too long that the community has a super strict hate for the profession. A-net has a real problem when it comes to necro. They don't know or understand their creation. Core necro: good fun, until you go into 2012 mode with shroud or heavens forbid need some real stability vs cc spam... Reaper: good times! Unless you like fighting in the shroud that actually does something, which after life force degen change is no longer a problem... Scourge: vomits football stadium sized aoes and is either an unremovable monster on point, or long range sniper's easiest kill ever. ..not to mention he kills the point of previous two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Axl.8924 Posted February 6, 2018 Share Posted February 6, 2018 Guess i'l either be playing my Ele or go play everquest which has better balancing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lanthun.7251 Posted February 6, 2018 Share Posted February 6, 2018 This is why I always tell new players that want to main a necro to prepare to adapt, as it gets shifted around drastically! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rune.5890 Posted February 6, 2018 Share Posted February 6, 2018 At this moment, playing scourge in wvw feels like playing with lag or stuttering. c'mon guys, this is not fun! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saracen.2691 Posted February 6, 2018 Share Posted February 6, 2018 > @"ZDragon.3046" said: > > @"Saracen.2691" said: > > > @"ZDragon.3046" said: > > > > @"Saracen.2691" said: > > > > > @"ZDragon.3046" said: > > > > > > @"Saracen.2691" said: > > > > > > > @"ZDragon.3046" said: > > > > > > > > @"Saracen.2691" said: > > > > > > > > > @"ZDragon.3046" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Saracen.2691" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"ZDragon.3046" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Saracen.2691" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"ZDragon.3046" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > What kind of conditions were getting hit with that made loosing one convert that much of a big deal in PVE? :anguished: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Any of them that do damage. Scourge is a glass cannon that already had the safety of a shroud taken away and a core part of your DPS is the barrier heal which is used not for healing, because it isn't a good heal, but for the sadistic searing proc. Now its main source of not just getting burnt down instantly by conditions has been gutted. Class can no longer do any of the damage it is supposed to do without dragging down the entire party. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In the long run people should have asked for new shroud years ago instead of saying TAKE SHROUD AWAY AND GIVES US MORE DAMAGE. Anet does this now the problem is being too glassy for the damage. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think if people asked for core fixes instead of meta fixes back to back to back necro might actually get somewhere but thats just my opinion. I'll keep my reaper or even core anyday over scourge. I disliked it from the moment I saw it lacked a true shroud. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As I've said before its a spec that requires more management without the proper reward for that management. > > > > > > > > > > > It lacks a power option yet reaper still has a moderate condition option. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Maybe with the next xpac we get a shroud thats the perfect mix of reaper dps yet has better sustain than core. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ANet and perfect aren't things that belong in the same sentence, let alone the same dimension. It'll never happen. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No game devs will ever get anything perfect no matter what game you play what profession or class you play how you spec that class its never going to be perfect. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Perfection obviously can't be achieved. But that doesn't mean they should strive for the opposite and ruin things because they don't understand how to balance classes. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Lexan.5930" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My dps in raids is gonna come down compared to Condi rangers .... Again >< > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >  > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Come down again? It already WAS down. Now it's simply out. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Raids are not the only component of the game and in almost every other component of the game you will never achieve maximum Dps. Nore sustain it for long extended periods of time. > > > > > > > Ever sense raids launched its all people cry about. HOW IS MY DPS IN RAIDS EFFECTED instead of looking at new potential in playstyle, mechanics, and overall flavor. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The game was designed without the idea of raids for end game content but anet caved and done this to likely extend the life of the game. > > > > > > > Yes raids are nice and are an important part of the game but if people are only asking for changes because they want to be on top of the Raid DPS meter then well maybe you should play a game were every class has a closer gap to doing the same amount of dps in endgame content. But then it wont be competitive and you wont have any interest what so ever. :unamused: > > > > > > > > > > > > These benchmarks are, however, the practical limit of what your class can do. The higher your practical limit, the better you can perform from encounter-to-encounter generally. They are therefore perfectly valid. You can clearly see Scourge was already suffering and those numbers don't even take into account survivability or prolonged life force usage. Now Scourge, the only viability necromancer had, got nerfed to the point where yesterday morning it had been my favourite class and this morning I can't force myself to even do my daily T4 fractals and logged out after the first one along with a Chrono friend of mine who felt the same way about their class. > > > > > > > > > > What do you mean the better you can perform from encounter to encounter. Performance should mostly be on the player and his level of skill. While there are some limitations to this its not all about numbers. > > > > > > > > > > Yes some builds simply do not work at all and there will be builds that don't work. I want to some what discredit your chrono friend as mesmer just got a massive amount of changes and there will need to be an adjustment period for that. Mesmer has one of the highest skill caps in the game when you consider its optimal level of play. If you cant force yourself todo your fractals thats kind of your fault not the dev teams. > > > > > > > > Yes absolutely a players performance should be dictated by his level of skill. But have you ever heard the phrase 'A carpenter is only as good as his tools'? You can't work miracles when every attempt to destroy your tools is being made. > > > > > > > > No, it isn't my fault, because the reason why I can't force myself to do it anymore is because ANet has sucked the enjoyment out of it because of their inability to patch things with more subtlety than a jackhammer. I was perfectly happy to do fractals every day without fail before this patch. I have taken several month long breaks from necromancer when ANet has done things like this before but I'm sick of it now and want them to once just get their act together. > > > > > > Then again a carpenter can have the best tools and also do a bad job as well. This is basically the opposite of what you just said to me. > > > I feel that you love scourge and you love necro i feel you. But 1 patch of blunt notes should not be sucking the enjoyment from gameplay out of you. Even more so when it comes to PVE gameplay. I could understand if you were a very competitive person and these changes hinder you in player vs player. But saying I CANT ENJOY THIS GAME AFTER THIS 1 PATCH. Is a bit much. :anguished: While i dont encourage simply rolling to flavor of the meta you should consider actually playing to have fun and simply enjoy the mechanics and flavor of the game. > > > I simply dont see how these changes could hinder your effectiveness in pve by that much. > > > > > > I felt more disappointment with the scourge reveal than I have with any of the following balance patches but thats just me. > > > > It isn't the opposite of what I just said to you. I can be the best carpenter in the world and these patches are making me unable to perform at my peak because my survival has been gutted. Any condi hitting me, and when they do hit me they don't hit gently, is going to burn me down far more quickly over time and I don't have the heal to make up for it unless I want to gut my DPS. It has put me in an unwinnable situation. > > It isn't one patch of blunt notes. It is patch after patch for years upon years. ANet has always given necro the short end of the stick and now, at times like these, when our options are already so limited, they start axing them off even more. > > Ok first of all to call yourself the best is a long shot. > If you are the best then you work with what you have. > Ive seen people do amazing things in game and in real life with absolutely crappy tools. Art is an easy example of this. You can have the finest brush and the best paint yet your work can look like a sloppy mess. A man can take water color and paint with his fingertips and produce a breathtaking master peace in minutes. > > Do you enjoy Necromancer Period no if ands or butts. > If yes then you play regardless of what comes down the pipe. > > If no then play another profession. :U but don't sit here and say you are the best but you cant be the best because your tools are not the best. You had to know some where down the line that if Core necro does not have the best tools anything that branches off of it wont have the best tools. > Nothing is Unwinnable... ok maybe core rev without glint thats pretty unwinnable atm.... XD I didn't call myself the best. I outlined a hypothetical scenario in which the best person in existence at something would still inevitably reach a point where they can only go so far with what they have to work with, and all this patch has done is restrict that limit you can reach. Your anecdotal evidence about finger painting doesn't change this fact nor provide any excuse to justify it. All this patch has done for necro is make some change to a trait that wasn't really sought after and make Scourge unable to maintain prolonged survivability. Even if they made Scourge the undisputed master of DPS suddenly it wouldn't fix the PvE problem, which is that it really doesn't matter how much DPS you can do when you can't survive long enough to output it, a big problem with Weaver. I do play other professions. I have a condi soulbeast I keep ready for anything at all times as a backup. Again, I never said I was the best. I reluctantly even consider myself somewhat competent at this game. And not really, ANet conceptually back during HoT claimed elite specs were meant to be alternate ways to play but the reality is they more often than not just augment the class and if they genuinely wanted to change that the solution certainly wasn't to gut Scourge and leave necro with a spec that isn't really that good and a core that also isn't really that good. Necro is once again the worst class in the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HardRider.2980 Posted February 6, 2018 Share Posted February 6, 2018 Not being dramatic or anmything but in all honesty.. seeing these changes.. yet again.. has finally hit a nerve as a main necro (literally.. its pretty much all i play) But i am now losing the motivation to play necro class.. I never would of thought the balance team would be the reason i ever started to doubt playing a profession.. Ill hold out for like the next balance patch but... i expect soo little of the team nowadays that its hard to disappoint me as a player.. even though it still happens, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catchyfx.5768 Posted February 7, 2018 Share Posted February 7, 2018 > @"HardRider.2980" said: > Not being dramatic or anmything but in all honesty.. seeing these changes.. yet again.. has finally hit a nerve as a main necro (literally.. its pretty much all i play) But i am now losing the motivation to play necro class.. > I never would of thought the balance team would be the reason i ever started to doubt playing a profession.. > > Ill hold out for like the next balance patch but... i expect soo little of the team nowadays that its hard to disappoint me as a player.. even though it still happens, you're not alone :) i dont trust ppl if they said necro is devs hate character but but :( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZDragon.3046 Posted February 7, 2018 Author Share Posted February 7, 2018 > @"HardRider.2980" said: > Not being dramatic or anmything but in all honesty.. seeing these changes.. yet again.. has finally hit a nerve as a main necro (literally.. its pretty much all i play) But i am now losing the motivation to play necro class.. > I never would of thought the balance team would be the reason i ever started to doubt playing a profession.. > > Ill hold out for like the next balance patch but... i expect soo little of the team nowadays that its hard to disappoint me as a player.. even though it still happens, Well necro has had a bad habit of being strong initially then for what ever reason everyone wants it to die. Its how it was in beta, HoT , and PoF seems to be constant thing now. We just need a new dev from the community who actually enjoys playing the profession thats the main problem. Issues cannot be addressed if no devs really take time to play the profession seriously. Yes you can do little things here and there to get by ( adding damage to reaper, adding damage to axe, adding scourge to the game, then killing it over the next few months.) But realistically necromancer needs a solid rework like mesmers got this patch. Imo Almost all professions need a core rework of that scale. The only ones I would some what exclude from a rework would be warriors outside of a traitline or two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeddite.8620 Posted February 7, 2018 Share Posted February 7, 2018 they changed the animation of "reaper's touch" (focus 4), and... i'm not sure, it does lower damage??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nimon.7840 Posted February 8, 2018 Share Posted February 8, 2018 > @"Saracen.2691" said: > > @"ReaverKane.7598" said: > > It's a bad patch because: > > 1) Didn't adress the underlying causes of why scourge is dominant (as in the shade mechanics) > > 2) Just nerfed everything, including PvE Scourge (which wasn't that great to begin with), and some of the changes also break core necro and Reaper. > > > > Arena Net again shows they are unwilling to do their bare minimum, unless it's one of their pet classes (Mesmer, thief and Ele). > > Oh, don't worry. They crushed Mesmer too. Chrono can no longer do the one thing people wanted it to do. Hope you didn't enjoy quickness or alacrity. > @"Saracen.2691" said: > > @"ReaverKane.7598" said: > > It's a bad patch because: > > 1) Didn't adress the underlying causes of why scourge is dominant (as in the shade mechanics) > > 2) Just nerfed everything, including PvE Scourge (which wasn't that great to begin with), and some of the changes also break core necro and Reaper. > > > > Arena Net again shows they are unwilling to do their bare minimum, unless it's one of their pet classes (Mesmer, thief and Ele). > > Oh, don't worry. They crushed Mesmer too. Chrono can no longer do the one thing people wanted it to do. Hope you didn't enjoy quickness or alacrity. Wait what? You can easily maintain more than 20 seconds of alacrity on your team. Quickness output got a bit nerfed but you are able to have 100% uptime as well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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