has Vampiric Presence been buffed?

[Warscythes.9307]

I just gave Reaper as an example but you are right this is a core necro trait. Although I don't think that it would be wrong to normalize it between attack speed though. Any slower attacking class would be at a slight disadvantage if there is no ICD like before such as DE. I don't see why having it equal would be a bad thing. Having it percent based like I pointed out before would work fine too.

 

I think the intention is fine, the icd mechanic on only one person just sets it back too much.

[Ziggityzog.7389]

Revert it or remove the ICD so i can suck life from multiple targets in a hit again. Even if its 5 max hits to enemies but each can only be hit every 1/2 second. That wouldn't be too bad, but single target every 1/2 sec is a BS nerf that was un needed.

[Drarnor Kunoram.5180]

> @"Warscythes.9307" said:

> I just gave Reaper as an example but you are right this is a core necro trait. Although I don't think that it would be wrong to normalize it between attack speed though. Any slower attacking class would be at a slight disadvantage if there is no ICD like before such as DE. I don't see why having it equal would be a bad thing. Having it percent based like I pointed out before would work fine too.

>

> I think the intention is fine, the icd mechanic on only one person just sets it back too much.

 

Well, even slower attacking classes (and Reaper is the poster child for that) can have "bursts" with a ton of hits in rapid succession. For example, Dark Spiral on Greatsword is 6 hits in a quarter second on a single target. Soul Spiral is 12 hits per target (at a base rate of 1 per 1/4 second).

[Lahmia.2193]

> @"Drarnor Kunoram.5180" said:

> > @"Warscythes.9307" said:

> > I just gave Reaper as an example but you are right this is a core necro trait. Although I don't think that it would be wrong to normalize it between attack speed though. Any slower attacking class would be at a slight disadvantage if there is no ICD like before such as DE. I don't see why having it equal would be a bad thing. Having it percent based like I pointed out before would work fine too.

> >

> > I think the intention is fine, the icd mechanic on only one person just sets it back too much.

>

> Well, even slower attacking classes (and Reaper is the poster child for that) can have "bursts" with a ton of hits in rapid succession. For example, Dark Spiral on Greatsword is 6 hits in a quarter second on a single target. Soul Spiral is 12 hits per target (at a base rate of 1 per 1.4 second).

 

Then add 2 wells and nightfall.

[Nimon.7840]

> @"NecroSummonsMors.7816" said:

> Either remove the internal cooldown or revert the change, because right now life syphon in terms of healing is worse than before since you can't really utilize fast strikes to syphon fast and recover health. Anet are you scared of making bloodmagic and syphoning usefull?

 

No. They are scared to make necro useful

[Dadnir.5038]

Well... Or just keep it like that and instead switch minion's siphon values and the necromancer's siphon's value on _vampiric_. In any ways, _vampiric presence_ as a support trait have never been "good" or "competitive". Since they decided to throw their balance magic to try and blind us on this trait, why not asking them for something a bit more usefull and which is no some support. Anet just don't seem to be able to design a "competitive" support for the necromancer, let stop bothering them with something that they ain't able to do and focus on build diversity instead.

[Lahmia.2193]

> @"Dadnir.5038" said:

> Well... Or just keep it like that and instead switch minion's siphon values and the necromancer's siphon's value on _vampiric_. In any ways, _vampiric presence_ as a support trait have never been "good" or "competitive". Since they decided to throw their balance magic to try and blind us on this trait, why not asking them for something a bit more usefull and which is no some support. Anet just don't seem to be able to design a "competitive" support for the necromancer, let stop bothering them with something that they ain't able to do and focus on build diversity instead.

 

It would be a fair trade given any buffs seem to require something to be toned down. Builds running Blood magic without minions would be better off but purely minion builds would be nerfed.

[KrHome.1920]

If the skill worked like Chilling Victory (Tooltip: Single attacks can activate this trait more than once before recharging.) it would be broken in multiple target scenarios and a lot stronger than Blighter's Boon - which is a GM trait.

 

E.g.: 5 targets: cast Locust Swarm (Wh5) -> go Reaper Shroud -> autoattack -> heal for 1500 HP/s -> enjoy your Berserker Reaper that heals like a Bunker

 

Like I already said: The numbers are bad. ANet should have only buffed the damage part of the trait (even higher than it is now) to increase the DPS of the Necro and his team. But for some reason they also touched the healing, realized it is to strong and messed up everything with the ICD.

 

Could have been such an easy solution... it's just sad.

[Crinn.7864]

> @"Warscythes.9307" said:

> No icd just means it will favor fast strikes when reaper itself has slow attacks in general. It would be fair for everyone instead of favoring one side.

 

Except Reaper actually has a pretty fast strike rate.

 

Soul Spiral has a decent strike rate.

Death Spiral has a high strike rate.

Ghastly Claws as a high strike rate.

Rending Claws hits twice at the same time.

Death's charge has a enormously high strike rate.

 

 

[Sublimatio.6981]

"necro is so bad, lets buff a trait"

"also, lets put ICD so nothing actually changes in pve and gets nerfed in pvp lmaooo"

[dceptaconroy.7928]

> @"Ziggityzog.7389" said:

> Revert it or remove the ICD so i can suck life from multiple targets in a hit again. Even if its 5 max hits to enemies but each can only be hit every 1/2 second. That wouldn't be too bad, but single target every 1/2 sec is a BS nerf that was un needed.

 

Bingo. Its almost to the point of pls anet dont touch us. Dont attempt to "buff" or alter anything just go elsewhere.

[Ziggityzog.7389]

I'm really quite sad i can't survive as much with the nerf or sorry i mean "buff" they did. It's as tho the one and only person left working on pvp over there has never played a necro before in pvp. Can we please get like 4 or 5 of the 20+ people working on gem store items to help revert this change and actually fix pvp.

[Orangensaft.7139]

I like that they wanted to buff it but i have to say it was a bad change

 

The idea to buff the scaling to make it more fitting to your build was nice but:

 

**The internal cooldown** really makes the buff almost completely useless **and actually makes the skill a lot worse than before**

**The fact that it is NOT per target but just a general ICD is just a horrible decision** ...

... i really dislike speaking so bad of a skill change that was meant as a buff and probably with good intention but it just makes the Vampiric Presence Aura soooo bad :/

 

Any Aoes you use become so much worse in making use of the Aura now!

_Example:_ Let's say that you use a Well Build in WvW where you use the Blood traitline for the Well trait and also the Vampiric Presence Aura then...

If you want to place your burst on an enemy zerg you would place 2 wells + attack with Staff on range so you have A LOT OF small hits in a very short time on those many targets in that one spot you burst ... **The internal cooldown basically nullifies the effect of the aura in that situation** ...

... but in WvW you usually only do Big bursts in a short period of time and not continously 1 attack per second all the time

And for anything but Raidbosses and 99/100 CM the same rule applies to PvE Content aswell tbh (Dungeons, Open World, normal Fractals)

 

So please Anet remove the Internal Cooldown again

then we can see how the Scaling Change affects the use of that Aura in potential builds

 

 

 

[reikken.4961]

One big problem with the ICD is that it's **really terrible for axe**

like scepter autoattack triggers it every hit

but axe auto triggers it only every other hit, since its hits aren't evenly spaced. the time between the first and second hit is a lot shorter than the time between the second hit and looping back to the first

 

and of course a huge nerf to axe 2.

and also a nerf to scourge using it because it does a bunch of small hits with shades

so the trait is overall nerfed rather than buffed unless you're core/reaper and not using axe

[Nimon.7840]

> @"Crinn.7864" said:

> > @"Warscythes.9307" said:

> > No icd just means it will favor fast strikes when reaper itself has slow attacks in general. It would be fair for everyone instead of favoring one side.

>

> Except Reaper actually has a pretty fast strike rate.

>

> Soul Spiral has a decent strike rate.

> Death Spiral has a high strike rate.

> Ghastly Claws as a high strike rate.

> Rending Claws hits twice at the same time.

> Death's charge has a enormously high strike rate.

>

>

 

The problem with death spiral, dmg is too low to cast it for max dps. Same goes for deaths charge

 

The dmg actually higher than it was before.

Before it was 40 dmg per hit (maybe 42)

Now its ~170 per hit with an icd. And max power.

 

So right now you can do 340 dps with that trait.

Even with

Nightfall, 2 wells and autoattack that would only be 4×42=168 dps from how the trait was before sure we could add some more things like death spiral, but tbh

That wont show true dps. Cause most of the time you have only like 2 of these things hitting per second because of cooldowns

 

So dps wise the new trait should be way better for the necro alone

[Dadnir.5038]

> @"Nimon.7840" said:

> > @"Crinn.7864" said:

> > > @"Warscythes.9307" said:

> > > No icd just means it will favor fast strikes when reaper itself has slow attacks in general. It would be fair for everyone instead of favoring one side.

> >

> > Except Reaper actually has a pretty fast strike rate.

> >

> > Soul Spiral has a decent strike rate.

> > Death Spiral has a high strike rate.

> > Ghastly Claws as a high strike rate.

> > Rending Claws hits twice at the same time.

> > Death's charge has a enormously high strike rate.

> >

> >

>

> The problem with death spiral, dmg is too low to cast it for max dps. Same goes for deaths charge

>

> The dmg actually higher than it was before.

> Before it was 40 dmg per hit (maybe 42)

> Now its ~170 per hit with an icd. And max power.

>

> So right now you can do 340 dps with that trait.

> Even with

> Nightfall, 2 wells and autoattack that would only be 4×42=168 dps from how the trait was before sure we could add some more things like death spiral, but tbh

> That wont show true dps. Cause most of the time you have only like 2 of these things hitting per second because of cooldowns

>

> So dps wise the new trait should be way better for the necro alone

 

Against a single target. Against more target it is a nerf which is more or less what people say on this thread since the beginning. The issue is more that this dps increase on single target is at best irrelevant in PvE (where ther is a need for a serious buff to the necromancer) while it is a nerf in PvP and especially WvW where it had the effect of a scaling defense.

 

Against 5 targets (something current in WvW), you had 3x5x42+3x42=756 extra damage dealt per second (assuming the auto attack is at a rate of 1 per second. Now like you said, it's a fixed 340dps assuming 2 attack per second. And the healing part of the trait get it a lot worse.

[Nimon.7840]

> @"Dadnir.5038" said:

> > @"Nimon.7840" said:

> > > @"Crinn.7864" said:

> > > > @"Warscythes.9307" said:

> > > > No icd just means it will favor fast strikes when reaper itself has slow attacks in general. It would be fair for everyone instead of favoring one side.

> > >

> > > Except Reaper actually has a pretty fast strike rate.

> > >

> > > Soul Spiral has a decent strike rate.

> > > Death Spiral has a high strike rate.

> > > Ghastly Claws as a high strike rate.

> > > Rending Claws hits twice at the same time.

> > > Death's charge has a enormously high strike rate.

> > >

> > >

> >

> > The problem with death spiral, dmg is too low to cast it for max dps. Same goes for deaths charge

> >

> > The dmg actually higher than it was before.

> > Before it was 40 dmg per hit (maybe 42)

> > Now its ~170 per hit with an icd. And max power.

> >

> > So right now you can do 340 dps with that trait.

> > Even with

> > Nightfall, 2 wells and autoattack that would only be 4×42=168 dps from how the trait was before sure we could add some more things like death spiral, but tbh

> > That wont show true dps. Cause most of the time you have only like 2 of these things hitting per second because of cooldowns

> >

> > So dps wise the new trait should be way better for the necro alone

>

> Against a single target. Against more target it is a nerf which is more or less what people say on this thread since the beginning. The issue is more that this dps increase on single target is at best irrelevant in PvE (where ther is a need for a serious buff to the necromancer) while it is a nerf in PvP and especially WvW where it had the effect of a scaling defense.

>

> Against 5 targets (something current in WvW), you had 3x5x42+3x42=756 extra damage dealt per second (assuming the auto attack is at a rate of 1 per second. Now like you said, it's a fixed 340dps assuming 2 attack per second. And the healing part of the trait get it a lot worse.

 

Hm. Yeah.

Well i could only test it with a friend of mine at dps-test-area.

We both got the vp ticks.

But it really is strange. Arc didnt show it in my friends list of dmg abilities.

But his chatlog said, it was there. So i assume its increasing my dps?!

Remove the icd would probably be too op, and i dont want to be bs number 2. Well at least i had a right to raid then xD

[Dadnir.5038]

> @"Nimon.7840" said:

> > @"Dadnir.5038" said:

> > > @"Nimon.7840" said:

> > > > @"Crinn.7864" said:

> > > > > @"Warscythes.9307" said:

> > > > > No icd just means it will favor fast strikes when reaper itself has slow attacks in general. It would be fair for everyone instead of favoring one side.

> > > >

> > > > Except Reaper actually has a pretty fast strike rate.

> > > >

> > > > Soul Spiral has a decent strike rate.

> > > > Death Spiral has a high strike rate.

> > > > Ghastly Claws as a high strike rate.

> > > > Rending Claws hits twice at the same time.

> > > > Death's charge has a enormously high strike rate.

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > The problem with death spiral, dmg is too low to cast it for max dps. Same goes for deaths charge

> > >

> > > The dmg actually higher than it was before.

> > > Before it was 40 dmg per hit (maybe 42)

> > > Now its ~170 per hit with an icd. And max power.

> > >

> > > So right now you can do 340 dps with that trait.

> > > Even with

> > > Nightfall, 2 wells and autoattack that would only be 4×42=168 dps from how the trait was before sure we could add some more things like death spiral, but tbh

> > > That wont show true dps. Cause most of the time you have only like 2 of these things hitting per second because of cooldowns

> > >

> > > So dps wise the new trait should be way better for the necro alone

> >

> > Against a single target. Against more target it is a nerf which is more or less what people say on this thread since the beginning. The issue is more that this dps increase on single target is at best irrelevant in PvE (where ther is a need for a serious buff to the necromancer) while it is a nerf in PvP and especially WvW where it had the effect of a scaling defense.

> >

> > Against 5 targets (something current in WvW), you had 3x5x42+3x42=756 extra damage dealt per second (assuming the auto attack is at a rate of 1 per second. Now like you said, it's a fixed 340dps assuming 2 attack per second. And the healing part of the trait get it a lot worse.

>

> Hm. Yeah.

> Well i could only test it with a friend of mine at dps-test-area.

> We both got the vp ticks.

> But it really is strange. Arc didnt show it in my friends list of dmg abilities.

> But his chatlog said, it was there. So i assume its increasing my dps?!

> Remove the icd would probably be too op, and i dont want to be bs number 2. Well at least i had a right to raid then xD

 

The main issue of VP as a dps increase in raid is that it's power base component cannot crit. It's all fine and dandy to have those extra damages when you don't capitalize on precision and ferocity. Damage component that can crit deal 3 time their initial value on average and proc on crit effect, this is why siphon are always inferior even buffed for single target fight, it still end up being insignifiant.

[Ziggityzog.7389]

It really should have never been touched in the first place. They did the ONLY thing that could make this trait pretty useless and that is by adding a ICD and it just being a single target. I really don't know why the decision was made to break something that worked just fine.

[Nimon.7840]

> @"Ziggityzog.7389" said:

> It really should have never been touched in the first place. They did the ONLY thing that could make this trait pretty useless and that is by adding a ICD and it just being a single target. I really don't know why the decision was made to break something that worked just fine.

 

Maybe this was meant to be a nerf for blood scourges?

Wich was a pretty useless build outside of pvp

[Drarnor Kunoram.5180]

> @"Nimon.7840" said:

> > @"Ziggityzog.7389" said:

> > It really should have never been touched in the first place. They did the ONLY thing that could make this trait pretty useless and that is by adding a ICD and it just being a single target. I really don't know why the decision was made to break something that worked just fine.

>

> Maybe this was meant to be a nerf for blood scourges?

> Wich was a pretty useless build outside of pvp

 

Even IN PvP, it wasn't great.

[Lily.1935]

Almost got my hopes up for it going good when I was reading it first. But then I read the power and healing requirements and the icd and knew instantly it was a bad change that changes nothing for the trait. Makes it even worse. Like others have mentioned it has poor scaling which necromancer already has a problem with.