GrubySzymek.1362 Posted February 10, 2018 Share Posted February 10, 2018 > @"Vayne.8563" said: > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > @"Vayne.8563" said: > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > They have every right to use guild event boss spawn and not completing it. They did it before the lock-out was present. Nothing it going to happen to them. This is no different than you "accidentaly" spawning a bounty and not killing it. > > > > > > Actually I'm not sure this is true. If they're using in game mechanics SOLELY for the purpose of inconveniencing other players or ruining their experience, any reasonable person would see that as griefing and griefing is against the terms of service. > > > > > > I'm relatively sure spawning a world boss and leaving is not intended play, even if the game allows them to do it. In the old days you could knock hero point NPCs far enough away from hero points to bug out the hero points. The game allows it. That doesn't mean it's not against the rules. > > > wwwqw > > > > These players were afk waiting for regular tequatl spawn. It didn't interrupt their gameplay, there wasn't any. I think it's about time to stop acting serious about "my feelings were hurt" in the game. Tequatl spawn caused no harm to them. A random krait walking on the beach there could killed them. This is silly situation blown up over proportions here. > > > > You example of HPs is irrelevant here. It was game breaking glitch. Tequatl spawn caused nothing like this. It's like spawning bounty on the desert and walking away. People do this every day. You want to punish them too? > > If a person spawns a bounty because they don't know better, that's not quite the same thing. The thing about griefing is at least in part intent. If people intend to grief, people should get punished. Not because it's a big deal. It's because it sets a precedent. You don't tolerate bad behavior that's intentionally bad, just because it's not "that" bad. > > I agree it's not a big deal. But guys who do this, I'm pretty sure grief in other ways too. Either Anet sends a message that griefing isn't welcome here, or they don't. Thing is such situations are always "I said, he said". You don't have direct proof of their intentions. Even when they brag about it chat they can be lying, just to annoy people even more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vayne.8563 Posted February 10, 2018 Share Posted February 10, 2018 > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > @"Vayne.8563" said: > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > @"Vayne.8563" said: > > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > > They have every right to use guild event boss spawn and not completing it. They did it before the lock-out was present. Nothing it going to happen to them. This is no different than you "accidentaly" spawning a bounty and not killing it. > > > > > > > > Actually I'm not sure this is true. If they're using in game mechanics SOLELY for the purpose of inconveniencing other players or ruining their experience, any reasonable person would see that as griefing and griefing is against the terms of service. > > > > > > > > I'm relatively sure spawning a world boss and leaving is not intended play, even if the game allows them to do it. In the old days you could knock hero point NPCs far enough away from hero points to bug out the hero points. The game allows it. That doesn't mean it's not against the rules. > > > > wwwqw > > > > > > These players were afk waiting for regular tequatl spawn. It didn't interrupt their gameplay, there wasn't any. I think it's about time to stop acting serious about "my feelings were hurt" in the game. Tequatl spawn caused no harm to them. A random krait walking on the beach there could killed them. This is silly situation blown up over proportions here. > > > > > > You example of HPs is irrelevant here. It was game breaking glitch. Tequatl spawn caused nothing like this. It's like spawning bounty on the desert and walking away. People do this every day. You want to punish them too? > > > > If a person spawns a bounty because they don't know better, that's not quite the same thing. The thing about griefing is at least in part intent. If people intend to grief, people should get punished. Not because it's a big deal. It's because it sets a precedent. You don't tolerate bad behavior that's intentionally bad, just because it's not "that" bad. > > > > I agree it's not a big deal. But guys who do this, I'm pretty sure grief in other ways too. Either Anet sends a message that griefing isn't welcome here, or they don't. > > Thing is such situations are always "I said, he said". You don't have direct proof of their intentions. Even when they brag about it chat they can be lying, just to annoy people even more. If they're bragging about it, it's deliberately trolling. If you trigger an event and walk away from it,. there is no reason to do that but trolling. There's no benefit at all. Sorry but this sounds like you're giving people too much benefit of the doubt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrubySzymek.1362 Posted February 10, 2018 Share Posted February 10, 2018 > @"Vayne.8563" said: > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > @"Vayne.8563" said: > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > > @"Vayne.8563" said: > > > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > > > They have every right to use guild event boss spawn and not completing it. They did it before the lock-out was present. Nothing it going to happen to them. This is no different than you "accidentaly" spawning a bounty and not killing it. > > > > > > > > > > Actually I'm not sure this is true. If they're using in game mechanics SOLELY for the purpose of inconveniencing other players or ruining their experience, any reasonable person would see that as griefing and griefing is against the terms of service. > > > > > > > > > > I'm relatively sure spawning a world boss and leaving is not intended play, even if the game allows them to do it. In the old days you could knock hero point NPCs far enough away from hero points to bug out the hero points. The game allows it. That doesn't mean it's not against the rules. > > > > > wwwqw > > > > > > > > These players were afk waiting for regular tequatl spawn. It didn't interrupt their gameplay, there wasn't any. I think it's about time to stop acting serious about "my feelings were hurt" in the game. Tequatl spawn caused no harm to them. A random krait walking on the beach there could killed them. This is silly situation blown up over proportions here. > > > > > > > > You example of HPs is irrelevant here. It was game breaking glitch. Tequatl spawn caused nothing like this. It's like spawning bounty on the desert and walking away. People do this every day. You want to punish them too? > > > > > > If a person spawns a bounty because they don't know better, that's not quite the same thing. The thing about griefing is at least in part intent. If people intend to grief, people should get punished. Not because it's a big deal. It's because it sets a precedent. You don't tolerate bad behavior that's intentionally bad, just because it's not "that" bad. > > > > > > I agree it's not a big deal. But guys who do this, I'm pretty sure grief in other ways too. Either Anet sends a message that griefing isn't welcome here, or they don't. > > > > Thing is such situations are always "I said, he said". You don't have direct proof of their intentions. Even when they brag about it chat they can be lying, just to annoy people even more. > > If they're bragging about it, it's deliberately trolling. If you trigger an event and walk away from it,. there is no reason to do that but trolling. There's no benefit at all. Sorry but this sounds like you're giving people too much benefit of the doubt. No, I just see no reason to make a big deal of this. They didn't break the regular event, some people needed to waypoint. No big deal. This whole thread is unjustified, unnecessary and is a drama trigger on its own. MMOs are social games. You don't punish people for non-harmful pranks IRL, you won't punish them in game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vayne.8563 Posted February 10, 2018 Share Posted February 10, 2018 > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > @"Vayne.8563" said: > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > @"Vayne.8563" said: > > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > > > @"Vayne.8563" said: > > > > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > > > > They have every right to use guild event boss spawn and not completing it. They did it before the lock-out was present. Nothing it going to happen to them. This is no different than you "accidentaly" spawning a bounty and not killing it. > > > > > > > > > > > > Actually I'm not sure this is true. If they're using in game mechanics SOLELY for the purpose of inconveniencing other players or ruining their experience, any reasonable person would see that as griefing and griefing is against the terms of service. > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm relatively sure spawning a world boss and leaving is not intended play, even if the game allows them to do it. In the old days you could knock hero point NPCs far enough away from hero points to bug out the hero points. The game allows it. That doesn't mean it's not against the rules. > > > > > > wwwqw > > > > > > > > > > These players were afk waiting for regular tequatl spawn. It didn't interrupt their gameplay, there wasn't any. I think it's about time to stop acting serious about "my feelings were hurt" in the game. Tequatl spawn caused no harm to them. A random krait walking on the beach there could killed them. This is silly situation blown up over proportions here. > > > > > > > > > > You example of HPs is irrelevant here. It was game breaking glitch. Tequatl spawn caused nothing like this. It's like spawning bounty on the desert and walking away. People do this every day. You want to punish them too? > > > > > > > > If a person spawns a bounty because they don't know better, that's not quite the same thing. The thing about griefing is at least in part intent. If people intend to grief, people should get punished. Not because it's a big deal. It's because it sets a precedent. You don't tolerate bad behavior that's intentionally bad, just because it's not "that" bad. > > > > > > > > I agree it's not a big deal. But guys who do this, I'm pretty sure grief in other ways too. Either Anet sends a message that griefing isn't welcome here, or they don't. > > > > > > Thing is such situations are always "I said, he said". You don't have direct proof of their intentions. Even when they brag about it chat they can be lying, just to annoy people even more. > > > > If they're bragging about it, it's deliberately trolling. If you trigger an event and walk away from it,. there is no reason to do that but trolling. There's no benefit at all. Sorry but this sounds like you're giving people too much benefit of the doubt. > > No, I just see no reason to make a big deal of this. They didn't break the regular event, some people needed to waypoint. No big deal. This whole thread is unjustified, unnecessary and is a drama trigger on its own. > > MMOs are social games. You don't punish people for non-harmful pranks IRL, you won't punish them in game. I don't pull pranks on strangers. It's just not cool or funny. A few guys shouldn't be trying to ruin anyone else's time. I'm not calling for them to be permabanned. But they should be warned if they continue to do it, penalized appropriately. It's junvenile and pointless behavior Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrubySzymek.1362 Posted February 10, 2018 Share Posted February 10, 2018 > @"Vayne.8563" said: > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > @"Vayne.8563" said: > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > > @"Vayne.8563" said: > > > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > > > > @"Vayne.8563" said: > > > > > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > > > > > They have every right to use guild event boss spawn and not completing it. They did it before the lock-out was present. Nothing it going to happen to them. This is no different than you "accidentaly" spawning a bounty and not killing it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Actually I'm not sure this is true. If they're using in game mechanics SOLELY for the purpose of inconveniencing other players or ruining their experience, any reasonable person would see that as griefing and griefing is against the terms of service. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm relatively sure spawning a world boss and leaving is not intended play, even if the game allows them to do it. In the old days you could knock hero point NPCs far enough away from hero points to bug out the hero points. The game allows it. That doesn't mean it's not against the rules. > > > > > > > wwwqw > > > > > > > > > > > > These players were afk waiting for regular tequatl spawn. It didn't interrupt their gameplay, there wasn't any. I think it's about time to stop acting serious about "my feelings were hurt" in the game. Tequatl spawn caused no harm to them. A random krait walking on the beach there could killed them. This is silly situation blown up over proportions here. > > > > > > > > > > > > You example of HPs is irrelevant here. It was game breaking glitch. Tequatl spawn caused nothing like this. It's like spawning bounty on the desert and walking away. People do this every day. You want to punish them too? > > > > > > > > > > If a person spawns a bounty because they don't know better, that's not quite the same thing. The thing about griefing is at least in part intent. If people intend to grief, people should get punished. Not because it's a big deal. It's because it sets a precedent. You don't tolerate bad behavior that's intentionally bad, just because it's not "that" bad. > > > > > > > > > > I agree it's not a big deal. But guys who do this, I'm pretty sure grief in other ways too. Either Anet sends a message that griefing isn't welcome here, or they don't. > > > > > > > > Thing is such situations are always "I said, he said". You don't have direct proof of their intentions. Even when they brag about it chat they can be lying, just to annoy people even more. > > > > > > If they're bragging about it, it's deliberately trolling. If you trigger an event and walk away from it,. there is no reason to do that but trolling. There's no benefit at all. Sorry but this sounds like you're giving people too much benefit of the doubt. > > > > No, I just see no reason to make a big deal of this. They didn't break the regular event, some people needed to waypoint. No big deal. This whole thread is unjustified, unnecessary and is a drama trigger on its own. > > > > MMOs are social games. You don't punish people for non-harmful pranks IRL, you won't punish them in game. > > I don't pull pranks on strangers. It's just not cool or funny. A few guys shouldn't be trying to ruin anyone else's time. I'm not calling for them to be permabanned. But they should be warned if they continue to do it, penalized appropriately. It's junvenile and pointless behavior They objectively didn't ruin anything. Tequatl spawned normally on time. Game is PEGI 12 in EU and Teen in NA, of course there are children playing. Your stand on the case is like annoyign neighbour complaining that childrean are playing football in nearby school. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vayne.8563 Posted February 10, 2018 Share Posted February 10, 2018 > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > @"Vayne.8563" said: > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > @"Vayne.8563" said: > > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > > > @"Vayne.8563" said: > > > > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > > > > > @"Vayne.8563" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > > > > > > They have every right to use guild event boss spawn and not completing it. They did it before the lock-out was present. Nothing it going to happen to them. This is no different than you "accidentaly" spawning a bounty and not killing it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Actually I'm not sure this is true. If they're using in game mechanics SOLELY for the purpose of inconveniencing other players or ruining their experience, any reasonable person would see that as griefing and griefing is against the terms of service. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm relatively sure spawning a world boss and leaving is not intended play, even if the game allows them to do it. In the old days you could knock hero point NPCs far enough away from hero points to bug out the hero points. The game allows it. That doesn't mean it's not against the rules. > > > > > > > > wwwqw > > > > > > > > > > > > > > These players were afk waiting for regular tequatl spawn. It didn't interrupt their gameplay, there wasn't any. I think it's about time to stop acting serious about "my feelings were hurt" in the game. Tequatl spawn caused no harm to them. A random krait walking on the beach there could killed them. This is silly situation blown up over proportions here. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You example of HPs is irrelevant here. It was game breaking glitch. Tequatl spawn caused nothing like this. It's like spawning bounty on the desert and walking away. People do this every day. You want to punish them too? > > > > > > > > > > > > If a person spawns a bounty because they don't know better, that's not quite the same thing. The thing about griefing is at least in part intent. If people intend to grief, people should get punished. Not because it's a big deal. It's because it sets a precedent. You don't tolerate bad behavior that's intentionally bad, just because it's not "that" bad. > > > > > > > > > > > > I agree it's not a big deal. But guys who do this, I'm pretty sure grief in other ways too. Either Anet sends a message that griefing isn't welcome here, or they don't. > > > > > > > > > > Thing is such situations are always "I said, he said". You don't have direct proof of their intentions. Even when they brag about it chat they can be lying, just to annoy people even more. > > > > > > > > If they're bragging about it, it's deliberately trolling. If you trigger an event and walk away from it,. there is no reason to do that but trolling. There's no benefit at all. Sorry but this sounds like you're giving people too much benefit of the doubt. > > > > > > No, I just see no reason to make a big deal of this. They didn't break the regular event, some people needed to waypoint. No big deal. This whole thread is unjustified, unnecessary and is a drama trigger on its own. > > > > > > MMOs are social games. You don't punish people for non-harmful pranks IRL, you won't punish them in game. > > > > I don't pull pranks on strangers. It's just not cool or funny. A few guys shouldn't be trying to ruin anyone else's time. I'm not calling for them to be permabanned. But they should be warned if they continue to do it, penalized appropriately. It's junvenile and pointless behavior > > They objectively didn't ruin anything. Tequatl spawned normally on time. Game is PEGI 12 in EU and Teen in NA, of course there are children playing. Your stand on the case is like annoyign neighbour complaining that childrean are playing football in nearby school. This is a terrible analogy. They're not playing football in their nearby school TO annoy the neighbors and that's the difference. Frankly I have no patience for people deliberately trying to annoy other people. You have every right to disagree, but it's not going to change my feelings on the subject or the fact that its' griefing. It's malicious if you intend to annoy other people. You might not be annoyed. Clearly the OP is. You can say it wouldn't bother you. But that doesn't mean the OP isn't entitled to his feelings on the matter. I wouldn't have made a post about it. I wouldn't have probably been as annoyed as they OP. But that doesn't change the fact that someone being annoyed by something innocent, like kids playing football, is a different situation than people intentionally doing something to annoy other people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seera.5916 Posted February 10, 2018 Share Posted February 10, 2018 > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > @"Seera.5916" said: > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > @"Menadena.7482" said: > > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > > They have every right to use guild event boss spawn and not completing it. They did it before the lock-out was present. Nothing it going to happen to them. This is no different than you "accidentaly" spawning a bounty and not killing it. > > > > > > > > Thumbs down. Just because you CAN do something does not mean you have the right to do it. You CAN violate clauses of the TOS that have no physical way of stopping you but you probably will not get very far with arguing you had the right to do it. > > > > > > They upgraded their guild hall, they paid their currency to build guild event mission and they started it before 30 minute timeout happened. Your freedom within the game is no different than their freedom. Their guild, their currency, their event. It didn't break or failed regular tequatl spawn. The only consequence is that OP feels offended for some reason. > > > > But if they do it simply to troll the players waiting, then that's griefing. However, if there are no easily accessible chat records, proving intent is hard. > > > > The only thing you can do is report when you see it and if it gets to be too often, then the reports will help show intent. You don't spawn it 30 minutes prior and have an emergency that keeps an entire guild from participating often. > > Except their "trolling" caused no harm. Didn't break the actual tequatl or made it impossible to complete. Grieving/trolling is the ruining/reducing of someone's fun for the sake of ruining/reducing someone's fun. Finding yourself dead and having to redrawn at the cost of a waypoint fee is an annoyance and a fun reducer. It doesn't have to cause major in game problems to qualify as grieving or trolling. That being said, it is minor grieving/trolling. But grieving is grieving and it's all against the rules. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrubySzymek.1362 Posted February 10, 2018 Share Posted February 10, 2018 > @"Seera.5916" said: > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > @"Seera.5916" said: > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > > @"Menadena.7482" said: > > > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > > > They have every right to use guild event boss spawn and not completing it. They did it before the lock-out was present. Nothing it going to happen to them. This is no different than you "accidentaly" spawning a bounty and not killing it. > > > > > > > > > > Thumbs down. Just because you CAN do something does not mean you have the right to do it. You CAN violate clauses of the TOS that have no physical way of stopping you but you probably will not get very far with arguing you had the right to do it. > > > > > > > > They upgraded their guild hall, they paid their currency to build guild event mission and they started it before 30 minute timeout happened. Your freedom within the game is no different than their freedom. Their guild, their currency, their event. It didn't break or failed regular tequatl spawn. The only consequence is that OP feels offended for some reason. > > > > > > But if they do it simply to troll the players waiting, then that's griefing. However, if there are no easily accessible chat records, proving intent is hard. > > > > > > The only thing you can do is report when you see it and if it gets to be too often, then the reports will help show intent. You don't spawn it 30 minutes prior and have an emergency that keeps an entire guild from participating often. > > > > Except their "trolling" caused no harm. Didn't break the actual tequatl or made it impossible to complete. > > Grieving/trolling is the ruining/reducing of someone's fun for the sake of ruining/reducing someone's fun. Finding yourself dead and having to redrawn at the cost of a waypoint fee is an annoyance and a fun reducer. It doesn't have to cause major in game problems to qualify as grieving or trolling. > > That being said, it is minor grieving/trolling. But grieving is grieving and it's all against the rules. They were afk-waiting for tequatl spawn. To ruin something you need to prove there was something to ruin in the first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seera.5916 Posted February 10, 2018 Share Posted February 10, 2018 > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > @"Seera.5916" said: > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > @"Seera.5916" said: > > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > > > @"Menadena.7482" said: > > > > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > > > > They have every right to use guild event boss spawn and not completing it. They did it before the lock-out was present. Nothing it going to happen to them. This is no different than you "accidentaly" spawning a bounty and not killing it. > > > > > > > > > > > > Thumbs down. Just because you CAN do something does not mean you have the right to do it. You CAN violate clauses of the TOS that have no physical way of stopping you but you probably will not get very far with arguing you had the right to do it. > > > > > > > > > > They upgraded their guild hall, they paid their currency to build guild event mission and they started it before 30 minute timeout happened. Your freedom within the game is no different than their freedom. Their guild, their currency, their event. It didn't break or failed regular tequatl spawn. The only consequence is that OP feels offended for some reason. > > > > > > > > But if they do it simply to troll the players waiting, then that's griefing. However, if there are no easily accessible chat records, proving intent is hard. > > > > > > > > The only thing you can do is report when you see it and if it gets to be too often, then the reports will help show intent. You don't spawn it 30 minutes prior and have an emergency that keeps an entire guild from participating often. > > > > > > Except their "trolling" caused no harm. Didn't break the actual tequatl or made it impossible to complete. > > > > Grieving/trolling is the ruining/reducing of someone's fun for the sake of ruining/reducing someone's fun. Finding yourself dead and having to redrawn at the cost of a waypoint fee is an annoyance and a fun reducer. It doesn't have to cause major in game problems to qualify as grieving or trolling. > > > > That being said, it is minor grieving/trolling. But grieving is grieving and it's all against the rules. > > They were afk-waiting for tequatl spawn. To ruin something you need to prove there was something to ruin in the first place. It would reduce my fun if I was AFK there where it would be relatively safe to park a character and then found that I had to run back right on top of the spawn time. Not majorly, but it would. It wouldn't be something that I would report if it only happened to me rarely. It's not that big of a deal and I would need to know that it was grieving and not an accident. And that's impossible to determine after just one incident. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrubySzymek.1362 Posted February 10, 2018 Share Posted February 10, 2018 > @"Seera.5916" said: > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > @"Seera.5916" said: > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > > @"Seera.5916" said: > > > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > > > > @"Menadena.7482" said: > > > > > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > > > > > They have every right to use guild event boss spawn and not completing it. They did it before the lock-out was present. Nothing it going to happen to them. This is no different than you "accidentaly" spawning a bounty and not killing it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thumbs down. Just because you CAN do something does not mean you have the right to do it. You CAN violate clauses of the TOS that have no physical way of stopping you but you probably will not get very far with arguing you had the right to do it. > > > > > > > > > > > > They upgraded their guild hall, they paid their currency to build guild event mission and they started it before 30 minute timeout happened. Your freedom within the game is no different than their freedom. Their guild, their currency, their event. It didn't break or failed regular tequatl spawn. The only consequence is that OP feels offended for some reason. > > > > > > > > > > But if they do it simply to troll the players waiting, then that's griefing. However, if there are no easily accessible chat records, proving intent is hard. > > > > > > > > > > The only thing you can do is report when you see it and if it gets to be too often, then the reports will help show intent. You don't spawn it 30 minutes prior and have an emergency that keeps an entire guild from participating often. > > > > > > > > Except their "trolling" caused no harm. Didn't break the actual tequatl or made it impossible to complete. > > > > > > Grieving/trolling is the ruining/reducing of someone's fun for the sake of ruining/reducing someone's fun. Finding yourself dead and having to redrawn at the cost of a waypoint fee is an annoyance and a fun reducer. It doesn't have to cause major in game problems to qualify as grieving or trolling. > > > > > > That being said, it is minor grieving/trolling. But grieving is grieving and it's all against the rules. > > > > They were afk-waiting for tequatl spawn. To ruin something you need to prove there was something to ruin in the first place. > > It would reduce my fun if I was AFK there where it would be relatively safe to park a character and then found that I had to run back right on top of the spawn time. Not majorly, but it would. It wouldn't be something that I would report if it only happened to me rarely. It's not that big of a deal and I would need to know that it was grieving and not an accident. And that's impossible to determine after just one incident. It wasn't safe. This wasn't a city. Nowhere in this map you have any privilage to say you are safe. There are roaming undead. Nothing was taken from players standing there. The only argument here is "I'm offended". Well, I'm offended by your armor skin choices. Should you be punished? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashen.2907 Posted February 10, 2018 Share Posted February 10, 2018 Are waypoints free now? In order for this to be truly without harm then there could have been no in game financial impact on those affected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Illconceived Was Na.9781 Posted February 10, 2018 Share Posted February 10, 2018 It doesn't matter what our definition of "griefing" is. It doesn't matter whether we think "intent" matters. It's all moot until someone reports this to ANet. Then... * When ANet investigates, it's their decision whether there's some sort of violation of ToS/EULA. * If they determine that there's an issue, it's also up to them to decide how to handle it (whether with a note on the record of the players or the guild, a warning, or suspensions and beyond). So it's moot if "K" et al believes that there's nothing wrong with a guild choosing to invest their resources into starting an event just to create rollie pollie fish heads. And it's equally moot if "V" et al think that it's a misuse of the game's mechanics to make things difficult on other players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seera.5916 Posted February 10, 2018 Share Posted February 10, 2018 > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > @"Seera.5916" said: > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > @"Seera.5916" said: > > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > > > @"Seera.5916" said: > > > > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > > > > > @"Menadena.7482" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > > > > > > They have every right to use guild event boss spawn and not completing it. They did it before the lock-out was present. Nothing it going to happen to them. This is no different than you "accidentaly" spawning a bounty and not killing it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thumbs down. Just because you CAN do something does not mean you have the right to do it. You CAN violate clauses of the TOS that have no physical way of stopping you but you probably will not get very far with arguing you had the right to do it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > They upgraded their guild hall, they paid their currency to build guild event mission and they started it before 30 minute timeout happened. Your freedom within the game is no different than their freedom. Their guild, their currency, their event. It didn't break or failed regular tequatl spawn. The only consequence is that OP feels offended for some reason. > > > > > > > > > > > > But if they do it simply to troll the players waiting, then that's griefing. However, if there are no easily accessible chat records, proving intent is hard. > > > > > > > > > > > > The only thing you can do is report when you see it and if it gets to be too often, then the reports will help show intent. You don't spawn it 30 minutes prior and have an emergency that keeps an entire guild from participating often. > > > > > > > > > > Except their "trolling" caused no harm. Didn't break the actual tequatl or made it impossible to complete. > > > > > > > > Grieving/trolling is the ruining/reducing of someone's fun for the sake of ruining/reducing someone's fun. Finding yourself dead and having to redrawn at the cost of a waypoint fee is an annoyance and a fun reducer. It doesn't have to cause major in game problems to qualify as grieving or trolling. > > > > > > > > That being said, it is minor grieving/trolling. But grieving is grieving and it's all against the rules. > > > > > > They were afk-waiting for tequatl spawn. To ruin something you need to prove there was something to ruin in the first place. > > > > It would reduce my fun if I was AFK there where it would be relatively safe to park a character and then found that I had to run back right on top of the spawn time. Not majorly, but it would. It wouldn't be something that I would report if it only happened to me rarely. It's not that big of a deal and I would need to know that it was grieving and not an accident. And that's impossible to determine after just one incident. > > It wasn't safe. This wasn't a city. Nowhere in this map you have any privilage to say you are safe. There are roaming undead. Nothing was taken from players standing there. The only argument here is "I'm offended". Well, I'm offended by your armor skin choices. Should you be punished? Like I said, relatively safe. There'd likely be enough people that were around that aren't AFK that would jump in before my character died. And waypoint fees are taken from the players that end up dying to the spawn. And it's one less death (or more) before a player has to spend time or use a repair canister to repair their armor in order to keep armor benefits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrubySzymek.1362 Posted February 10, 2018 Share Posted February 10, 2018 > @"Seera.5916" said: > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > @"Seera.5916" said: > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > > @"Seera.5916" said: > > > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > > > > @"Seera.5916" said: > > > > > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Menadena.7482" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > > > > > > > They have every right to use guild event boss spawn and not completing it. They did it before the lock-out was present. Nothing it going to happen to them. This is no different than you "accidentaly" spawning a bounty and not killing it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thumbs down. Just because you CAN do something does not mean you have the right to do it. You CAN violate clauses of the TOS that have no physical way of stopping you but you probably will not get very far with arguing you had the right to do it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > They upgraded their guild hall, they paid their currency to build guild event mission and they started it before 30 minute timeout happened. Your freedom within the game is no different than their freedom. Their guild, their currency, their event. It didn't break or failed regular tequatl spawn. The only consequence is that OP feels offended for some reason. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But if they do it simply to troll the players waiting, then that's griefing. However, if there are no easily accessible chat records, proving intent is hard. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The only thing you can do is report when you see it and if it gets to be too often, then the reports will help show intent. You don't spawn it 30 minutes prior and have an emergency that keeps an entire guild from participating often. > > > > > > > > > > > > Except their "trolling" caused no harm. Didn't break the actual tequatl or made it impossible to complete. > > > > > > > > > > Grieving/trolling is the ruining/reducing of someone's fun for the sake of ruining/reducing someone's fun. Finding yourself dead and having to redrawn at the cost of a waypoint fee is an annoyance and a fun reducer. It doesn't have to cause major in game problems to qualify as grieving or trolling. > > > > > > > > > > That being said, it is minor grieving/trolling. But grieving is grieving and it's all against the rules. > > > > > > > > They were afk-waiting for tequatl spawn. To ruin something you need to prove there was something to ruin in the first place. > > > > > > It would reduce my fun if I was AFK there where it would be relatively safe to park a character and then found that I had to run back right on top of the spawn time. Not majorly, but it would. It wouldn't be something that I would report if it only happened to me rarely. It's not that big of a deal and I would need to know that it was grieving and not an accident. And that's impossible to determine after just one incident. > > > > It wasn't safe. This wasn't a city. Nowhere in this map you have any privilage to say you are safe. There are roaming undead. Nothing was taken from players standing there. The only argument here is "I'm offended". Well, I'm offended by your armor skin choices. Should you be punished? > > Like I said, relatively safe. There'd likely be enough people that were around that aren't AFK that would jump in before my character died. > > And waypoint fees are taken from the players that end up dying to the spawn. And it's one less death (or more) before a player has to spend time or use a repair canister to repair their armor in order to keep armor benefits. All of "damage" you were kind enough to mention are irrelevant in any comparison. This is creating artificial problem out of nothing just to make others feel bad for being lighthearted and actually having fun within virtual environment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seera.5916 Posted February 10, 2018 Share Posted February 10, 2018 > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > @"Seera.5916" said: > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > @"Seera.5916" said: > > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > > > @"Seera.5916" said: > > > > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > > > > > @"Seera.5916" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Menadena.7482" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > > > > > > > > They have every right to use guild event boss spawn and not completing it. They did it before the lock-out was present. Nothing it going to happen to them. This is no different than you "accidentaly" spawning a bounty and not killing it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thumbs down. Just because you CAN do something does not mean you have the right to do it. You CAN violate clauses of the TOS that have no physical way of stopping you but you probably will not get very far with arguing you had the right to do it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > They upgraded their guild hall, they paid their currency to build guild event mission and they started it before 30 minute timeout happened. Your freedom within the game is no different than their freedom. Their guild, their currency, their event. It didn't break or failed regular tequatl spawn. The only consequence is that OP feels offended for some reason. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But if they do it simply to troll the players waiting, then that's griefing. However, if there are no easily accessible chat records, proving intent is hard. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The only thing you can do is report when you see it and if it gets to be too often, then the reports will help show intent. You don't spawn it 30 minutes prior and have an emergency that keeps an entire guild from participating often. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Except their "trolling" caused no harm. Didn't break the actual tequatl or made it impossible to complete. > > > > > > > > > > > > Grieving/trolling is the ruining/reducing of someone's fun for the sake of ruining/reducing someone's fun. Finding yourself dead and having to redrawn at the cost of a waypoint fee is an annoyance and a fun reducer. It doesn't have to cause major in game problems to qualify as grieving or trolling. > > > > > > > > > > > > That being said, it is minor grieving/trolling. But grieving is grieving and it's all against the rules. > > > > > > > > > > They were afk-waiting for tequatl spawn. To ruin something you need to prove there was something to ruin in the first place. > > > > > > > > It would reduce my fun if I was AFK there where it would be relatively safe to park a character and then found that I had to run back right on top of the spawn time. Not majorly, but it would. It wouldn't be something that I would report if it only happened to me rarely. It's not that big of a deal and I would need to know that it was grieving and not an accident. And that's impossible to determine after just one incident. > > > > > > It wasn't safe. This wasn't a city. Nowhere in this map you have any privilage to say you are safe. There are roaming undead. Nothing was taken from players standing there. The only argument here is "I'm offended". Well, I'm offended by your armor skin choices. Should you be punished? > > > > Like I said, relatively safe. There'd likely be enough people that were around that aren't AFK that would jump in before my character died. > > > > And waypoint fees are taken from the players that end up dying to the spawn. And it's one less death (or more) before a player has to spend time or use a repair canister to repair their armor in order to keep armor benefits. > > All of "damage" you were kind enough to mention are irrelevant in any comparison. This is creating artificial problem out of nothing just to make others feel bad for being lighthearted and actually having fun within virtual environment. Having fun at the expense of others is griefing. Please quote me where in the rules that states that minor griefing is allowed. All rule breakers should be punished according to the severity of their rule break. The ones responsible should be told to knock it off with no penalty to their account (the effect of their griefing is minor). Then if they do not follow the instructions of the mods they should be punished for disregarding mod instructions appropriately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrubySzymek.1362 Posted February 10, 2018 Share Posted February 10, 2018 > @"Seera.5916" said: > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > @"Seera.5916" said: > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > > @"Seera.5916" said: > > > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > > > > @"Seera.5916" said: > > > > > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Seera.5916" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Menadena.7482" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > They have every right to use guild event boss spawn and not completing it. They did it before the lock-out was present. Nothing it going to happen to them. This is no different than you "accidentaly" spawning a bounty and not killing it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thumbs down. Just because you CAN do something does not mean you have the right to do it. You CAN violate clauses of the TOS that have no physical way of stopping you but you probably will not get very far with arguing you had the right to do it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > They upgraded their guild hall, they paid their currency to build guild event mission and they started it before 30 minute timeout happened. Your freedom within the game is no different than their freedom. Their guild, their currency, their event. It didn't break or failed regular tequatl spawn. The only consequence is that OP feels offended for some reason. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But if they do it simply to troll the players waiting, then that's griefing. However, if there are no easily accessible chat records, proving intent is hard. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The only thing you can do is report when you see it and if it gets to be too often, then the reports will help show intent. You don't spawn it 30 minutes prior and have an emergency that keeps an entire guild from participating often. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Except their "trolling" caused no harm. Didn't break the actual tequatl or made it impossible to complete. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Grieving/trolling is the ruining/reducing of someone's fun for the sake of ruining/reducing someone's fun. Finding yourself dead and having to redrawn at the cost of a waypoint fee is an annoyance and a fun reducer. It doesn't have to cause major in game problems to qualify as grieving or trolling. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That being said, it is minor grieving/trolling. But grieving is grieving and it's all against the rules. > > > > > > > > > > > > They were afk-waiting for tequatl spawn. To ruin something you need to prove there was something to ruin in the first place. > > > > > > > > > > It would reduce my fun if I was AFK there where it would be relatively safe to park a character and then found that I had to run back right on top of the spawn time. Not majorly, but it would. It wouldn't be something that I would report if it only happened to me rarely. It's not that big of a deal and I would need to know that it was grieving and not an accident. And that's impossible to determine after just one incident. > > > > > > > > It wasn't safe. This wasn't a city. Nowhere in this map you have any privilage to say you are safe. There are roaming undead. Nothing was taken from players standing there. The only argument here is "I'm offended". Well, I'm offended by your armor skin choices. Should you be punished? > > > > > > Like I said, relatively safe. There'd likely be enough people that were around that aren't AFK that would jump in before my character died. > > > > > > And waypoint fees are taken from the players that end up dying to the spawn. And it's one less death (or more) before a player has to spend time or use a repair canister to repair their armor in order to keep armor benefits. > > > > All of "damage" you were kind enough to mention are irrelevant in any comparison. This is creating artificial problem out of nothing just to make others feel bad for being lighthearted and actually having fun within virtual environment. > > Having fun at the expense of others is griefing. Please quote me where in the rules that states that minor griefing is allowed. All rule breakers should be punished according to the severity of their rule break. > > The ones responsible should be told to knock it off with no penalty to their account (the effect of their griefing is minor). Then if they do not follow the instructions of the mods they should be punished for disregarding mod instructions appropriately. Except it wasn't griefing. You lost nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seera.5916 Posted February 11, 2018 Share Posted February 11, 2018 > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > @"Seera.5916" said: > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > @"Seera.5916" said: > > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > > > @"Seera.5916" said: > > > > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > > > > > @"Seera.5916" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Seera.5916" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Menadena.7482" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > They have every right to use guild event boss spawn and not completing it. They did it before the lock-out was present. Nothing it going to happen to them. This is no different than you "accidentaly" spawning a bounty and not killing it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thumbs down. Just because you CAN do something does not mean you have the right to do it. You CAN violate clauses of the TOS that have no physical way of stopping you but you probably will not get very far with arguing you had the right to do it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > They upgraded their guild hall, they paid their currency to build guild event mission and they started it before 30 minute timeout happened. Your freedom within the game is no different than their freedom. Their guild, their currency, their event. It didn't break or failed regular tequatl spawn. The only consequence is that OP feels offended for some reason. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But if they do it simply to troll the players waiting, then that's griefing. However, if there are no easily accessible chat records, proving intent is hard. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The only thing you can do is report when you see it and if it gets to be too often, then the reports will help show intent. You don't spawn it 30 minutes prior and have an emergency that keeps an entire guild from participating often. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Except their "trolling" caused no harm. Didn't break the actual tequatl or made it impossible to complete. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Grieving/trolling is the ruining/reducing of someone's fun for the sake of ruining/reducing someone's fun. Finding yourself dead and having to redrawn at the cost of a waypoint fee is an annoyance and a fun reducer. It doesn't have to cause major in game problems to qualify as grieving or trolling. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That being said, it is minor grieving/trolling. But grieving is grieving and it's all against the rules. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > They were afk-waiting for tequatl spawn. To ruin something you need to prove there was something to ruin in the first place. > > > > > > > > > > > > It would reduce my fun if I was AFK there where it would be relatively safe to park a character and then found that I had to run back right on top of the spawn time. Not majorly, but it would. It wouldn't be something that I would report if it only happened to me rarely. It's not that big of a deal and I would need to know that it was grieving and not an accident. And that's impossible to determine after just one incident. > > > > > > > > > > It wasn't safe. This wasn't a city. Nowhere in this map you have any privilage to say you are safe. There are roaming undead. Nothing was taken from players standing there. The only argument here is "I'm offended". Well, I'm offended by your armor skin choices. Should you be punished? > > > > > > > > Like I said, relatively safe. There'd likely be enough people that were around that aren't AFK that would jump in before my character died. > > > > > > > > And waypoint fees are taken from the players that end up dying to the spawn. And it's one less death (or more) before a player has to spend time or use a repair canister to repair their armor in order to keep armor benefits. > > > > > > All of "damage" you were kind enough to mention are irrelevant in any comparison. This is creating artificial problem out of nothing just to make others feel bad for being lighthearted and actually having fun within virtual environment. > > > > Having fun at the expense of others is griefing. Please quote me where in the rules that states that minor griefing is allowed. All rule breakers should be punished according to the severity of their rule break. > > > > The ones responsible should be told to knock it off with no penalty to their account (the effect of their griefing is minor). Then if they do not follow the instructions of the mods they should be punished for disregarding mod instructions appropriately. > > Except it wasn't griefing. You lost nothing. So waypoint fees don't exist anymore? The time spent running back to Teq has suddenly become way more fun than it is tedious? Having to go to a repair station or use a repair canister sooner than you expected for your play style/skill level is suddenly not an annoyance? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrubySzymek.1362 Posted February 11, 2018 Share Posted February 11, 2018 > @"Seera.5916" said: > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > @"Seera.5916" said: > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > > @"Seera.5916" said: > > > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > > > > @"Seera.5916" said: > > > > > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Seera.5916" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Seera.5916" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Menadena.7482" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > They have every right to use guild event boss spawn and not completing it. They did it before the lock-out was present. Nothing it going to happen to them. This is no different than you "accidentaly" spawning a bounty and not killing it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thumbs down. Just because you CAN do something does not mean you have the right to do it. You CAN violate clauses of the TOS that have no physical way of stopping you but you probably will not get very far with arguing you had the right to do it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > They upgraded their guild hall, they paid their currency to build guild event mission and they started it before 30 minute timeout happened. Your freedom within the game is no different than their freedom. Their guild, their currency, their event. It didn't break or failed regular tequatl spawn. The only consequence is that OP feels offended for some reason. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But if they do it simply to troll the players waiting, then that's griefing. However, if there are no easily accessible chat records, proving intent is hard. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The only thing you can do is report when you see it and if it gets to be too often, then the reports will help show intent. You don't spawn it 30 minutes prior and have an emergency that keeps an entire guild from participating often. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Except their "trolling" caused no harm. Didn't break the actual tequatl or made it impossible to complete. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Grieving/trolling is the ruining/reducing of someone's fun for the sake of ruining/reducing someone's fun. Finding yourself dead and having to redrawn at the cost of a waypoint fee is an annoyance and a fun reducer. It doesn't have to cause major in game problems to qualify as grieving or trolling. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That being said, it is minor grieving/trolling. But grieving is grieving and it's all against the rules. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > They were afk-waiting for tequatl spawn. To ruin something you need to prove there was something to ruin in the first place. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It would reduce my fun if I was AFK there where it would be relatively safe to park a character and then found that I had to run back right on top of the spawn time. Not majorly, but it would. It wouldn't be something that I would report if it only happened to me rarely. It's not that big of a deal and I would need to know that it was grieving and not an accident. And that's impossible to determine after just one incident. > > > > > > > > > > > > It wasn't safe. This wasn't a city. Nowhere in this map you have any privilage to say you are safe. There are roaming undead. Nothing was taken from players standing there. The only argument here is "I'm offended". Well, I'm offended by your armor skin choices. Should you be punished? > > > > > > > > > > Like I said, relatively safe. There'd likely be enough people that were around that aren't AFK that would jump in before my character died. > > > > > > > > > > And waypoint fees are taken from the players that end up dying to the spawn. And it's one less death (or more) before a player has to spend time or use a repair canister to repair their armor in order to keep armor benefits. > > > > > > > > All of "damage" you were kind enough to mention are irrelevant in any comparison. This is creating artificial problem out of nothing just to make others feel bad for being lighthearted and actually having fun within virtual environment. > > > > > > Having fun at the expense of others is griefing. Please quote me where in the rules that states that minor griefing is allowed. All rule breakers should be punished according to the severity of their rule break. > > > > > > The ones responsible should be told to knock it off with no penalty to their account (the effect of their griefing is minor). Then if they do not follow the instructions of the mods they should be punished for disregarding mod instructions appropriately. > > > > Except it wasn't griefing. You lost nothing. > > So waypoint fees don't exist anymore? The time spent running back to Teq has suddenly become way more fun than it is tedious? Having to go to a repair station or use a repair canister sooner than you expected for your play style/skill level is suddenly not an annoyance? 15 minutes running to tequatl is enough. WP fees are so small, you get them back gathering 1 wood node. This is not only creating artificial problem, this is creating artificial harm now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seera.5916 Posted February 11, 2018 Share Posted February 11, 2018 > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > @"Seera.5916" said: > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > @"Seera.5916" said: > > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > > > @"Seera.5916" said: > > > > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > > > > > @"Seera.5916" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Seera.5916" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Seera.5916" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Menadena.7482" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > They have every right to use guild event boss spawn and not completing it. They did it before the lock-out was present. Nothing it going to happen to them. This is no different than you "accidentaly" spawning a bounty and not killing it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thumbs down. Just because you CAN do something does not mean you have the right to do it. You CAN violate clauses of the TOS that have no physical way of stopping you but you probably will not get very far with arguing you had the right to do it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > They upgraded their guild hall, they paid their currency to build guild event mission and they started it before 30 minute timeout happened. Your freedom within the game is no different than their freedom. Their guild, their currency, their event. It didn't break or failed regular tequatl spawn. The only consequence is that OP feels offended for some reason. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But if they do it simply to troll the players waiting, then that's griefing. However, if there are no easily accessible chat records, proving intent is hard. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The only thing you can do is report when you see it and if it gets to be too often, then the reports will help show intent. You don't spawn it 30 minutes prior and have an emergency that keeps an entire guild from participating often. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Except their "trolling" caused no harm. Didn't break the actual tequatl or made it impossible to complete. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Grieving/trolling is the ruining/reducing of someone's fun for the sake of ruining/reducing someone's fun. Finding yourself dead and having to redrawn at the cost of a waypoint fee is an annoyance and a fun reducer. It doesn't have to cause major in game problems to qualify as grieving or trolling. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That being said, it is minor grieving/trolling. But grieving is grieving and it's all against the rules. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > They were afk-waiting for tequatl spawn. To ruin something you need to prove there was something to ruin in the first place. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It would reduce my fun if I was AFK there where it would be relatively safe to park a character and then found that I had to run back right on top of the spawn time. Not majorly, but it would. It wouldn't be something that I would report if it only happened to me rarely. It's not that big of a deal and I would need to know that it was grieving and not an accident. And that's impossible to determine after just one incident. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It wasn't safe. This wasn't a city. Nowhere in this map you have any privilage to say you are safe. There are roaming undead. Nothing was taken from players standing there. The only argument here is "I'm offended". Well, I'm offended by your armor skin choices. Should you be punished? > > > > > > > > > > > > Like I said, relatively safe. There'd likely be enough people that were around that aren't AFK that would jump in before my character died. > > > > > > > > > > > > And waypoint fees are taken from the players that end up dying to the spawn. And it's one less death (or more) before a player has to spend time or use a repair canister to repair their armor in order to keep armor benefits. > > > > > > > > > > All of "damage" you were kind enough to mention are irrelevant in any comparison. This is creating artificial problem out of nothing just to make others feel bad for being lighthearted and actually having fun within virtual environment. > > > > > > > > Having fun at the expense of others is griefing. Please quote me where in the rules that states that minor griefing is allowed. All rule breakers should be punished according to the severity of their rule break. > > > > > > > > The ones responsible should be told to knock it off with no penalty to their account (the effect of their griefing is minor). Then if they do not follow the instructions of the mods they should be punished for disregarding mod instructions appropriately. > > > > > > Except it wasn't griefing. You lost nothing. > > > > So waypoint fees don't exist anymore? The time spent running back to Teq has suddenly become way more fun than it is tedious? Having to go to a repair station or use a repair canister sooner than you expected for your play style/skill level is suddenly not an annoyance? > > 15 minutes running to tequatl is enough. WP fees are so small, you get them back gathering 1 wood node. This is not only creating artificial problem, this is creating artificial harm now. But you're claiming people lose nothing. Which is wrong. I wouldn't have created a thread for it. It is only minor griefing that has a low impact to the players involved. I would have reported it and hoped ANet at least put a note on their accounts that they've done it. Because where's the line of minor enough to get away with griefing? Your line is obviously at a different place than mine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrubySzymek.1362 Posted February 11, 2018 Share Posted February 11, 2018 > @"Seera.5916" said: > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > @"Seera.5916" said: > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > > @"Seera.5916" said: > > > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > > > > @"Seera.5916" said: > > > > > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Seera.5916" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Seera.5916" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Seera.5916" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Menadena.7482" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > They have every right to use guild event boss spawn and not completing it. They did it before the lock-out was present. Nothing it going to happen to them. This is no different than you "accidentaly" spawning a bounty and not killing it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thumbs down. Just because you CAN do something does not mean you have the right to do it. You CAN violate clauses of the TOS that have no physical way of stopping you but you probably will not get very far with arguing you had the right to do it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > They upgraded their guild hall, they paid their currency to build guild event mission and they started it before 30 minute timeout happened. Your freedom within the game is no different than their freedom. Their guild, their currency, their event. It didn't break or failed regular tequatl spawn. The only consequence is that OP feels offended for some reason. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But if they do it simply to troll the players waiting, then that's griefing. However, if there are no easily accessible chat records, proving intent is hard. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The only thing you can do is report when you see it and if it gets to be too often, then the reports will help show intent. You don't spawn it 30 minutes prior and have an emergency that keeps an entire guild from participating often. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Except their "trolling" caused no harm. Didn't break the actual tequatl or made it impossible to complete. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Grieving/trolling is the ruining/reducing of someone's fun for the sake of ruining/reducing someone's fun. Finding yourself dead and having to redrawn at the cost of a waypoint fee is an annoyance and a fun reducer. It doesn't have to cause major in game problems to qualify as grieving or trolling. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That being said, it is minor grieving/trolling. But grieving is grieving and it's all against the rules. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > They were afk-waiting for tequatl spawn. To ruin something you need to prove there was something to ruin in the first place. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It would reduce my fun if I was AFK there where it would be relatively safe to park a character and then found that I had to run back right on top of the spawn time. Not majorly, but it would. It wouldn't be something that I would report if it only happened to me rarely. It's not that big of a deal and I would need to know that it was grieving and not an accident. And that's impossible to determine after just one incident. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It wasn't safe. This wasn't a city. Nowhere in this map you have any privilage to say you are safe. There are roaming undead. Nothing was taken from players standing there. The only argument here is "I'm offended". Well, I'm offended by your armor skin choices. Should you be punished? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Like I said, relatively safe. There'd likely be enough people that were around that aren't AFK that would jump in before my character died. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And waypoint fees are taken from the players that end up dying to the spawn. And it's one less death (or more) before a player has to spend time or use a repair canister to repair their armor in order to keep armor benefits. > > > > > > > > > > > > All of "damage" you were kind enough to mention are irrelevant in any comparison. This is creating artificial problem out of nothing just to make others feel bad for being lighthearted and actually having fun within virtual environment. > > > > > > > > > > Having fun at the expense of others is griefing. Please quote me where in the rules that states that minor griefing is allowed. All rule breakers should be punished according to the severity of their rule break. > > > > > > > > > > The ones responsible should be told to knock it off with no penalty to their account (the effect of their griefing is minor). Then if they do not follow the instructions of the mods they should be punished for disregarding mod instructions appropriately. > > > > > > > > Except it wasn't griefing. You lost nothing. > > > > > > So waypoint fees don't exist anymore? The time spent running back to Teq has suddenly become way more fun than it is tedious? Having to go to a repair station or use a repair canister sooner than you expected for your play style/skill level is suddenly not an annoyance? > > > > 15 minutes running to tequatl is enough. WP fees are so small, you get them back gathering 1 wood node. This is not only creating artificial problem, this is creating artificial harm now. > > But you're claiming people lose nothing. Which is wrong. > > I wouldn't have created a thread for it. It is only minor griefing that has a low impact to the players involved. > > I would have reported it and hoped ANet at least put a note on their accounts that they've done it. Because where's the line of minor enough to get away with griefing? Your line is obviously at a different place than mine. What they lost is literally nothing. It's like taking a walk around the block instead of going straight home. Nobody got hurt, nobody lost rewards, event spawned normally on regular time. The only problem is that OP got offended. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seera.5916 Posted February 11, 2018 Share Posted February 11, 2018 > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > @"Seera.5916" said: > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > @"Seera.5916" said: > > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > > > @"Seera.5916" said: > > > > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > > > > > @"Seera.5916" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Seera.5916" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Seera.5916" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Seera.5916" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Menadena.7482" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > They have every right to use guild event boss spawn and not completing it. They did it before the lock-out was present. Nothing it going to happen to them. This is no different than you "accidentaly" spawning a bounty and not killing it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thumbs down. Just because you CAN do something does not mean you have the right to do it. You CAN violate clauses of the TOS that have no physical way of stopping you but you probably will not get very far with arguing you had the right to do it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > They upgraded their guild hall, they paid their currency to build guild event mission and they started it before 30 minute timeout happened. Your freedom within the game is no different than their freedom. Their guild, their currency, their event. It didn't break or failed regular tequatl spawn. The only consequence is that OP feels offended for some reason. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But if they do it simply to troll the players waiting, then that's griefing. However, if there are no easily accessible chat records, proving intent is hard. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The only thing you can do is report when you see it and if it gets to be too often, then the reports will help show intent. You don't spawn it 30 minutes prior and have an emergency that keeps an entire guild from participating often. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Except their "trolling" caused no harm. Didn't break the actual tequatl or made it impossible to complete. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Grieving/trolling is the ruining/reducing of someone's fun for the sake of ruining/reducing someone's fun. Finding yourself dead and having to redrawn at the cost of a waypoint fee is an annoyance and a fun reducer. It doesn't have to cause major in game problems to qualify as grieving or trolling. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That being said, it is minor grieving/trolling. But grieving is grieving and it's all against the rules. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > They were afk-waiting for tequatl spawn. To ruin something you need to prove there was something to ruin in the first place. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It would reduce my fun if I was AFK there where it would be relatively safe to park a character and then found that I had to run back right on top of the spawn time. Not majorly, but it would. It wouldn't be something that I would report if it only happened to me rarely. It's not that big of a deal and I would need to know that it was grieving and not an accident. And that's impossible to determine after just one incident. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It wasn't safe. This wasn't a city. Nowhere in this map you have any privilage to say you are safe. There are roaming undead. Nothing was taken from players standing there. The only argument here is "I'm offended". Well, I'm offended by your armor skin choices. Should you be punished? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Like I said, relatively safe. There'd likely be enough people that were around that aren't AFK that would jump in before my character died. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And waypoint fees are taken from the players that end up dying to the spawn. And it's one less death (or more) before a player has to spend time or use a repair canister to repair their armor in order to keep armor benefits. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > All of "damage" you were kind enough to mention are irrelevant in any comparison. This is creating artificial problem out of nothing just to make others feel bad for being lighthearted and actually having fun within virtual environment. > > > > > > > > > > > > Having fun at the expense of others is griefing. Please quote me where in the rules that states that minor griefing is allowed. All rule breakers should be punished according to the severity of their rule break. > > > > > > > > > > > > The ones responsible should be told to knock it off with no penalty to their account (the effect of their griefing is minor). Then if they do not follow the instructions of the mods they should be punished for disregarding mod instructions appropriately. > > > > > > > > > > Except it wasn't griefing. You lost nothing. > > > > > > > > So waypoint fees don't exist anymore? The time spent running back to Teq has suddenly become way more fun than it is tedious? Having to go to a repair station or use a repair canister sooner than you expected for your play style/skill level is suddenly not an annoyance? > > > > > > 15 minutes running to tequatl is enough. WP fees are so small, you get them back gathering 1 wood node. This is not only creating artificial problem, this is creating artificial harm now. > > > > But you're claiming people lose nothing. Which is wrong. > > > > I wouldn't have created a thread for it. It is only minor griefing that has a low impact to the players involved. > > > > I would have reported it and hoped ANet at least put a note on their accounts that they've done it. Because where's the line of minor enough to get away with griefing? Your line is obviously at a different place than mine. > > What they lost is literally nothing. It's like taking a walk around the block instead of going straight home. Nobody got hurt, nobody lost rewards, event spawned normally on regular time. The only problem is that OP got offended. Waypoint fees aren't literally nothing. Not everyone wants to take a walk around the block instead of going straight home. For me, that would be incredibly boring and not fun because I would rather be playing games or watching videos. Which is the definition of griefing: reducing/ruining the fun of someone else for the sake of reducing/ruining their fun. People effectively lost rewards due to waypoint fees. Profit is lost. The effect is minor, I definitely don't think that the players need to be temporarily banned or the mechanics of the guild spawn world events changed. But as it seems that you and I just aren't going to convince the other, let's agree to disagree. Since we're both just rephrasing what we've said previously in an attempt to convince the other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twilightzone.7452 Posted February 11, 2018 Share Posted February 11, 2018 I have been on the maps and "multiple times" being twice in one week and I have seen it once after teq was killed (was kinda funny, wasted it for 5 people). It was always 30 mins before teq anyways. Feel like this is too much credit to the guild when it only happen twice. I haven't seen it in the pass few days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Menadena.7482 Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 > @"Vayne.8563" said: > I don't pull pranks on strangers. It's just not cool or funny. A few guys shouldn't be trying to ruin anyone else's time. I'm not calling for them to be permabanned. But they should be warned if they continue to do it, penalized appropriately. It's junvenile and pointless behavior Exactly, most people, if they pull a prank, do it on someone they know. That person will know them and their intent. Pulling one on a stranger is assumed to be malicious until proven otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Menadena.7482 Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > Except it wasn't griefing. You lost nothing. Where in the definition of griefing does it say you have to lose anything? Say everyone on the map started following you around (with their characters or just in map chat) and laughing at you? Not helping you nor hurting you, just heckling. Would you eventually get annoyed? Why? After all, you are not being harmed, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrubySzymek.1362 Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 > @"Menadena.7482" said: > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > Except it wasn't griefing. You lost nothing. > > Where in the definition of griefing does it say you have to lose anything? > > Say everyone on the map started following you around (with their characters or just in map chat) and laughing at you? Not helping you nor hurting you, just heckling. Would you eventually get annoyed? Why? After all, you are not being harmed, right? Exactly. As long as I'm safe I don't care. Anyway, this whole philosophical dispute is pointless. We are not GW2 police. Anet is. Report player you don't like and move on. In game. No reason for this thread to exist as forum crew is not responsible for dealing with what's happening in game. Toodles! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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