Dadnir.5038 Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 > @"DeceiverX.8361" said: > Kind of what I mean, though. Until encounter design changes, necro will always be useless unless you totally change what the necro is. > > And if you need to do that, how do you do it? Because if it's allowed to soak tons of damage, it can't be allowed the highest DPS. Nor can it if it's meant to disable. Nor if it has crazy condition management, nor group sustain. > > We can talk about how things *don't* work all day, but the only thing that matters is how it should be changed specifically. I don't think there's an answer if the theme of the necro is going to try to be upheld, and changing themes at this point is similarly damaging, especially if ANet decides their new theme for the profession would be something you may not like or may not be super-useful in PvE, like being an unparalleled sustain tank. > > There are damned good reasons the profession is and has been constantly top-tier for most of the PvP side of the game's history. Last meta was literally "if you don't 4v1 the necro ASAP and shut down its LF regen, you lose the fight and likely the game." While slightly overtuned in the case of condi reaper (which did get gutted in excess), a good necro and a good support were an unstoppable duo. > > The scourge itself is bad design because it's trying to do too much and honestly it does it all too well. So rather than trying to solve the problem of reworking everything and splitting the game's skills such that you end up with entirely different games between formats (and do you really think ANet would do a good job with double the skills/traits to balance? They can't even handle our existing set...), it'd be such an easier and more holistic approach to solve the PvE problem within PvE. It isn't a numerical problem but one just that the necro has no reason to be taken because its strengths aren't allowed to be used in existing PvE. Make enemies simulate the PvP environments where everyone runs around with permanent all boons maxed out and 50% immunity uptime. Have fights you're meant to sustain in. Have the enemies apply 20+ confusion/torment/bleeding after a few seconds like what can happen in WvW so transfers become significant. Have that corruption, support, and disablement be really useful. > > If you remember pre-rework Orr, those encounters were brutal. You got swarmed by enemies which dealt substantial power damage, condition damage, corrupted boons, and CC'ed you. People complained it was too hard, but this is what makes the necro be useful, and simulates why it's so strong in the PvP formats. > > Because you can't balance PvE numerically. You can't even really balance it conceptually, either. This is a community mentality problem paired with negligence of creating the types of encounters in PvE you'll see across formats. Necro no matter what happens will never be optimal unless it just outright replaces another spec. And then that spec has the same problem as us. > > So we should demand problem-fixing at the encounter-level to allow us to be taken and get us made strong at what we're supposed to do while not being overtuned because of demands for more DPS or have weird splits that make cross-format play extremely difficult and bug-ridden. Where I disagree with you is that for me it's easier to change the necromancer as a whole than it's whole environment. If anet change PvE, it mean changing it also for other professions which are already pretty well adapted to this gamemode. I'm not sure that bending a whole gamemode, risking to hurt 8 professions, for the sake of a single profession is a clever choice. The problem of the necromancer in both PvP and PvE is the same. The necromancer potent tools for PvP that are useless in PvE. What anet need to do is reduce the number of those tools and replace some of them with tools that are potent for PvE and have little impact in PvP. Such tools could easily be made, the suggestion of a toughness debuff was one of them for example, giving a way for the necromancer to share more boons is another possibility. _Ultimately the problem of the necromancer is it's tools._ Trying to adapt the game to the necromancer or adapting the necromancer to the game, that's the choice. I reality no beast survive if it can't adapt to it's environment, even humans are the fruit of a long and steady process of evolution. If the necromancer was in a process of natural selection it would have disapeared long ago. So things have to be clear, I'm not saying that the necromancer need buffs, I'm saying that he need to be brought more in line with others. If we can't have this with the current core profession and specialisation, at least we need this to be given to us in the next. And like you said you can't balance PvE numerically, however, I firmly believe that you can balance professions numerically and that a numerical balance of profession benefit both PvP and PvE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZeftheWicked.3076 Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 Just adding a short reminder (cause i keep hearing this over and over) - necro corruption is and was not over the top. It is/was simply an answer to crazy boon spam that is present since HoT. You can nerf corruption right after insane overboard boon spam of other professions receives appropriate nerfbatting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnowHawk.3615 Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 > @"ZDragon.3046" said: > > @"SnowHawk.3615" said: > > You forgot about rev. > > In all honestly rev is pretty solid with an elite spec. Before an elite spec thats questionable but we have only ourselves to blame in the case of that. The player base was the cause of many of revs core changes during the beta phases. Its nowhere near as bad as necro right now. Rev actually does socurges's job better than scourge. IT deals damaging conditions and can support in a much stronger way. they cant even use core in pvp or their new spec - at least not if they expect to do well not to mention the lack of condi removal with the condi meta atm but thats just me as a rev player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kami Poi.4659 Posted February 13, 2018 Share Posted February 13, 2018 Sadly I have played necro from 2013 to now. Scourge now feels like a clunky event transformation its slow and the punch is low. so for now i must put the class down and move on to classes i found less fun because i'm not viable anymore its sad and its stupid that while they had the tools to do pvp split on changes they did not use them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dadnir.5038 Posted February 13, 2018 Share Posted February 13, 2018 > @"ZeftheWicked.3076" said: > Just adding a short reminder (cause i keep hearing this over and over) - necro corruption is and was not over the top. It is/was simply an answer to crazy boon spam that is present since HoT. You can nerf corruption right after insane overboard boon spam of other professions receives appropriate nerfbatting. Well, the issue is not the ability to remove boon, the issue is that while the necromancer initially had as much boon corruption than he had boon removal, this balance has been broken. The fact is that boon corruption is a stronger mechanism than boon removal, especially in PvP. Additionnally, havin boon corruption let one assume that you will do more condi damage with it which is an excuse to tune down the direct condi output of the profession which impact negatively this same profession in area where there is few to none boon to corrupt (PvE). My opinion is that most of the boon corruption that were added since HoT need to be changed to boon removal, which would change nothing to the impact on the "insane overbord boon spam", but would make the few regular boon coruption ability a lot more tactical (like they used to be). So yes, saying this, I suggest a direct nerf to the necromancer in PvP in order to open room for an increase in it's direct ability. Most players feel that the condi output of the necromancer is to important in PvP while most players feel that the damage output of the necromancer is to low in PvE. Balance those two at the cost of most boon corruption abilities transformed into boon removal, that should have been the solution instead of hitting at the reaper's ability to stay in shroud (for example). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProtoGunner.4953 Posted February 13, 2018 Share Posted February 13, 2018 I tell you a story. I don't play a lot lately and after the stress test weekends I never again played Scourge until now. I don't even remember there was no delay of casing those sand shades. And until now I didn't even know it was different. So I didn't notice and it didn't bother me. I actually don't understand _at all_ why people whine about every class in this game. Aside from bugs (which I don't even notice but is still a concern ofc), I usually have fun to play a class and I never feel behind or weak when I use dps gear - which I always do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lily.1935 Posted February 13, 2018 Author Share Posted February 13, 2018 > @"ProtoGunner.4953" said: > I tell you a story. I don't play a lot lately and after the stress test weekends I never again played Scourge until now. I don't even remember there was no delay of casing those sand shades. And until now I didn't even know it was different. So I didn't notice and it didn't bother me. I actually don't understand _at all_ why people whine about every class in this game. Aside from bugs (which I don't even notice but is still a concern ofc), I usually have fun to play a class and I never feel behind or weak when I use dps gear - which I always do. > The type of gameplay that is demanded from a defensive style of support that is meant to stop or buffer damage is supposed to be twitch reaction. You need to have instant cast in order to make this sort of style of gameplay worth while. You can't heal people. Barrier isn't healing. Because of this your damage control isn't about recovery but prevention. By adding a delay in the way they did they've made the prediction game 10x more difficult since predicting players can be more difficult than bosses. And since wind up for attacks can be quicker, and often are, than the .5 second delay we have to know when the attack while come and know where our party is before hand and react before the attack is telegraphed. This is asking us to have foresight. And unless we are literally cheating or remember the encounter so well that it looks like cheating then that is way too much to ask from a healing substitute build that can't actually heal. You don't have a perspective on this. So you should listen to the people who actually play it all the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nimon.7840 Posted February 13, 2018 Share Posted February 13, 2018 > @"Lily.1935" said: > > @"ProtoGunner.4953" said: > > I tell you a story. I don't play a lot lately and after the stress test weekends I never again played Scourge until now. I don't even remember there was no delay of casing those sand shades. And until now I didn't even know it was different. So I didn't notice and it didn't bother me. I actually don't understand _at all_ why people whine about every class in this game. Aside from bugs (which I don't even notice but is still a concern ofc), I usually have fun to play a class and I never feel behind or weak when I use dps gear - which I always do. > > > > The type of gameplay that is demanded from a defensive style of support that is meant to stop or buffer damage is supposed to be twitch reaction. You need to have instant cast in order to make this sort of style of gameplay worth while. You can't heal people. Barrier isn't healing. Because of this your damage control isn't about recovery but prevention. By adding a delay in the way they did they've made the prediction game 10x more difficult since predicting players can be more difficult than bosses. And since wind up for attacks can be quicker, and often are, than the .5 second delay we have to know when the attack while come and know where our party is before hand and react before the attack is telegraphed. This is asking us to have foresight. And unless we are literally cheating or remember the encounter so well that it looks like cheating then that is way too much to ask from a healing substitute build that can't actually heal. > > You don't have a perspective on this. So you should listen to the people who actually play it all the time. If i remember correctly scourge is a condition based support, that creates mighty barrier to protect their allies. Well that didnt go well. Now both is in a bad spot. The support aspect since f2-5 got nerfed and the dmg aspect since we only do like 29k dps. And because it took so long to fix abrasive grit, i guess that was the secret nerf in the previous patch. Now they gave it back but instead nerfed f2. Pretty shitty support if you ask me. Cant heal properly, cant protect properly, cant give boons properly and cant do dmg properly. Why? Because you need to focus on something. If you want to give boons and ve a healer you need healpower and concentration, but since its a condition based espec, there should be some condidmg and duration as well. Is there a stat combination like that? Guess not. So pretty shitty overall Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenrai Senshi.2017 Posted February 13, 2018 Share Posted February 13, 2018 Hello. Firstly, I'd like to mention that my experience with the necromancer is very thin compared to others. Although I've had one for quite a while, I never actually really played it much until Path of Fire released, along with Scourge. When I tried scourge, I actually enjoyed the play style a lot, and Necromancer was, for a brief moment, my most played class in the early days of the expansion. I was even considering main-ing it for a while (for context, I mostly play PvE, and WvW now and then. I rarely ever play PvP). Unfortunately, the constant changes and nerfs since then, which have for some reason not been split between PvE and PvP to a desirable extent, have diminished any motivation I once had to play the class. I'm not even sure where it sits in terms of effectiveness anymore, but part of me doesn't really want to find out. Sometimes I think the developers don't really understand the psychological effects that constant nerfs to a class can have on players, irrespective of whether they are justified or not, nor do I think they consider the impact of those changes across various game modes. Balancing a class for PvP while simultaneously destroying it in PvE, for example, is not a sound strategy when it comes to game balance, in my opinion. Honestly, I do feel bad for Necro mains who have been playing the class for longer than I have. I understand the grief that must be associated with always feeling like you're just being buried with every new patch that is released. I'm of the opinion that when players in a game start fearing balance patches, rather than looking forward to them, it means your methodology is flawed. In the end, perhaps a rework is in order. While constant nerfs can be very disheartening, a rework, if drastic enough, may feel like neither a nerf or buff from a psychological standpoint. Rather, it can make players feel like they're getting a fresh, clean start. Perhaps then they'll have something to feel excited about again, because I can't imagine these last few months have been very exciting for them in that regard. Again, these are just my personal feelings. As mentioned before, I am not the most experience with the class, so I might not be seeing all the variables, but that was just the impression I got from my own brief time as a Necro/Scourge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lalainnia.3598 Posted February 13, 2018 Share Posted February 13, 2018 Necros have had multiple times in the lime light in term of pve damage as reaper and scourge the main issue is that its either been a bug/not intended or it was "overperforming" the main prob I found was that it competes with ele in terms of what it should excel at being aoe damage just about anything that epidemic or reaper/shroud cleave can produce a weaver/tempest/ele can do better provided the support to pull X mobs or place said boss in a position for it. There are multiple fights scourge/reaper can do very well at and yes it is mainly because of epidemic the real issue for them is that there aren't enough fights where any competitive guild looking to achieve very fast clears will have much use for one. Outside of this condi scourge/reaper are great for pve raiding outside of a few fights. As for pvp and wvw Necro will always have a place in wvw due to its ability to corrupt boons and apply condis at a base level with scourge taking it to the next level while also providing support. Spvp sadly only scourge really sees itself being a staple presence because of taking necros boon corruption ability to a higher level while not being dependent on shroud for survival on top of having mobility. Reaper either needs to be very sturdy as it lacks mobility compared to scourge and its easy access to cripple simply put it needs to be better at something when compared to scourge and I personally don't see that. Base necro death shroud is just bad and needs a rework. Core necro overall needs help both in power and condi while reaper shroud needs to have another re look in terms of its LF gain and degen while also doing something to make power reaper be something worth giving a serious look at for its damage in a raiding setting because it doesn't have the luxury of epidemic while the vamp aura was a decent step in the right direction it wasn't enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zero.3871 Posted February 13, 2018 Share Posted February 13, 2018 Yeah, this game is a joke. everyone Plays mesmer because this class is so overpowered with all this invuls blocks invis shit skills. and reaper get nothing. core still most trash class in the gamer. all necros Needs Babysitters because teir lack of sustain. but anet REWORKED mesmer that already was OP for making him MORE OP. and necros didnt get a rework because costs are to high? no no, ressources are there, but anet is a bunch of heartless Money Printer. they dont care for their own game. gw2 greatest trash Balance of all mmo's. ive never seen such an imbalance in a game... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nimon.7840 Posted February 13, 2018 Share Posted February 13, 2018 > @"Lalainnia.3598" said: > Necros have had multiple times in the lime light in term of pve damage as reaper and scourge the main issue is that its either been a bug/not intended or it was "overperforming" the main prob I found was that it competes with ele in terms of what it should excel at being aoe damage just about anything that epidemic or reaper/shroud cleave can produce a weaver/tempest/ele can do better provided the support to pull X mobs or place said boss in a position for it. There are multiple fights scourge/reaper can do very well at and yes it is mainly because of epidemic the real issue for them is that there aren't enough fights where any competitive guild looking to achieve very fast clears will have much use for one. Outside of this condi scourge/reaper are great for pve raiding outside of a few fights. > > As for pvp and wvw Necro will always have a place in wvw due to its ability to corrupt boons and apply condis at a base level with scourge taking it to the next level while also providing support. Spvp sadly only scourge really sees itself being a staple presence because of taking necros boon corruption ability to a higher level while not being dependent on shroud for survival on top of having mobility. Reaper either needs to be very sturdy as it lacks mobility compared to scourge and its easy access to cripple simply put it needs to be better at something when compared to scourge and I personally don't see that. Base necro death shroud is just bad and needs a rework. > > Core necro overall needs help both in power and condi while reaper shroud needs to have another re look in terms of its LF gain and degen while also doing something to make power reaper be something worth giving a serious look at for its damage in a raiding setting because it doesn't have the luxury of epidemic while the vamp aura was a decent step in the right direction it wasn't enough. No. The problem is, that it got insta nerfed the next patch. Yes we had some great times. But: Pof release was a bug, they fixed it rlly fast cause it did dmg. Abrasive grit was bugged, guess how long they didnt care cause it would have buffed the necro. With reaper we had like 2 months?! Then minions got nerfed hard. Sure i was rlly glad about this, cause there was no actual challenge in playing the class. But ele being over the top for the whole time? I watched a dps video once. Abd now im like almost all the time top dps in raids with ele. But on golem i only do like 3/4 of the dmg i should do to be top dps. And now even warrior got huge amount of dps. But you dont have to care bout anything. Where with necro it sometimes gets very hard, not to interrupt all your skills yourself Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProtoGunner.4953 Posted February 13, 2018 Share Posted February 13, 2018 > @"Lily.1935" said: > > @"ProtoGunner.4953" said: > > I tell you a story. I don't play a lot lately and after the stress test weekends I never again played Scourge until now. I don't even remember there was no delay of casing those sand shades. And until now I didn't even know it was different. So I didn't notice and it didn't bother me. I actually don't understand _at all_ why people whine about every class in this game. Aside from bugs (which I don't even notice but is still a concern ofc), I usually have fun to play a class and I never feel behind or weak when I use dps gear - which I always do. > > > > The type of gameplay that is demanded from a defensive style of support that is meant to stop or buffer damage is supposed to be twitch reaction. You need to have instant cast in order to make this sort of style of gameplay worth while. You can't heal people. Barrier isn't healing. Because of this your damage control isn't about recovery but prevention. By adding a delay in the way they did they've made the prediction game 10x more difficult since predicting players can be more difficult than bosses. And since wind up for attacks can be quicker, and often are, than the .5 second delay we have to know when the attack while come and know where our party is before hand and react before the attack is telegraphed. This is asking us to have foresight. And unless we are literally cheating or remember the encounter so well that it looks like cheating then that is way too much to ask from a healing substitute build that can't actually heal. > > You don't have a perspective on this. So you should listen to the people who actually play it all the time. I don't know, a bit of anticipation and reaction is needed, but usually you see when people are going down. This is not a FPS or MOBA and usually reaction within a couple of seconds is enough. I never felt I have to be super fast, though I am a very well trained gamer having played games since 25 years and a lot of fighting games etc. Maybe that's my feeling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nimon.7840 Posted February 13, 2018 Share Posted February 13, 2018 > @"ProtoGunner.4953" said: > > @"Lily.1935" said: > > > @"ProtoGunner.4953" said: > > > I tell you a story. I don't play a lot lately and after the stress test weekends I never again played Scourge until now. I don't even remember there was no delay of casing those sand shades. And until now I didn't even know it was different. So I didn't notice and it didn't bother me. I actually don't understand _at all_ why people whine about every class in this game. Aside from bugs (which I don't even notice but is still a concern ofc), I usually have fun to play a class and I never feel behind or weak when I use dps gear - which I always do. > > > > > > > The type of gameplay that is demanded from a defensive style of support that is meant to stop or buffer damage is supposed to be twitch reaction. You need to have instant cast in order to make this sort of style of gameplay worth while. You can't heal people. Barrier isn't healing. Because of this your damage control isn't about recovery but prevention. By adding a delay in the way they did they've made the prediction game 10x more difficult since predicting players can be more difficult than bosses. And since wind up for attacks can be quicker, and often are, than the .5 second delay we have to know when the attack while come and know where our party is before hand and react before the attack is telegraphed. This is asking us to have foresight. And unless we are literally cheating or remember the encounter so well that it looks like cheating then that is way too much to ask from a healing substitute build that can't actually heal. > > > > You don't have a perspective on this. So you should listen to the people who actually play it all the time. > > I don't know, a bit of anticipation and reaction is needed, but usually you see when people are going down. This is not a FPS or MOBA and usually reaction within a couple of seconds is enough. I never felt I have to be super fast, though I am a very well trained gamer having played games since 25 years and a lot of fighting games etc. Maybe that's my feeling. Ever tried to protect yourself with f3 right now in reaction of another players action? That wont work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZDragon.3046 Posted February 13, 2018 Share Posted February 13, 2018 > @"SnowHawk.3615" said: > > @"ZDragon.3046" said: > > > @"SnowHawk.3615" said: > > > You forgot about rev. > > > > In all honestly rev is pretty solid with an elite spec. Before an elite spec thats questionable but we have only ourselves to blame in the case of that. The player base was the cause of many of revs core changes during the beta phases. Its nowhere near as bad as necro right now. Rev actually does socurges's job better than scourge. IT deals damaging conditions and can support in a much stronger way. > > they cant even use core in pvp or their new spec - at least not if they expect to do well not to mention the lack of condi removal with the condi meta atm but thats just me as a rev player. True im not going to argue that with you because I completely agree. Everything depends far too much on glint in pvp how ever in pve the elite spec newest is actually alright. It allows rev to do some decent damage while providing some offensive support. The lack of condition removal is made up to some extent by the fact that rev has access to some of the best evades in the game if you are using shiro. If using mallyx you have the option to out right ignore conditions with resistance. So while they dont have removal they do have some tools to help combat them. My issue is that alot of the core lines dont work as well together because anet tried to make each one too much of its own thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nimon.7840 Posted February 13, 2018 Share Posted February 13, 2018 > @"SnowHawk.3615" said: > > @"ZDragon.3046" said: > > > @"SnowHawk.3615" said: > > > You forgot about rev. > > > > In all honestly rev is pretty solid with an elite spec. Before an elite spec thats questionable but we have only ourselves to blame in the case of that. The player base was the cause of many of revs core changes during the beta phases. Its nowhere near as bad as necro right now. Rev actually does socurges's job better than scourge. IT deals damaging conditions and can support in a much stronger way. > > they cant even use core in pvp or their new spec - at least not if they expect to do well not to mention the lack of condi removal with the condi meta atm but thats just me as a rev player. You notice that necro cant use reaper or core either Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anchoku.8142 Posted February 13, 2018 Share Posted February 13, 2018 Boon corruption is very powerful in PvP and very weak in PvE. Every other profession is more boon-based than Necromancer and cannot help generating them. Against a high corruption rate foe, it is like having Master of Corruption on on boon generating skills. Meanwhile, bosses have Defiance and extremely high health. *If Defiance could generate conditions on corruption, Necro dps would be higher and more representative of PvP strength making balance less impossible without a split.* There is no way for a debuffing profession to be balanced without a major split between game modes with the current design strategy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZDragon.3046 Posted February 13, 2018 Share Posted February 13, 2018 > @"Nimon.7840" said: > > @"SnowHawk.3615" said: > > > @"ZDragon.3046" said: > > > > @"SnowHawk.3615" said: > > > > You forgot about rev. > > > > > > In all honestly rev is pretty solid with an elite spec. Before an elite spec thats questionable but we have only ourselves to blame in the case of that. The player base was the cause of many of revs core changes during the beta phases. Its nowhere near as bad as necro right now. Rev actually does socurges's job better than scourge. IT deals damaging conditions and can support in a much stronger way. > > > > they cant even use core in pvp or their new spec - at least not if they expect to do well not to mention the lack of condi removal with the condi meta atm but thats just me as a rev player. > > You notice that necro cant use reaper or core either Thats not true. You most certainly can use core necro and reaper but dont expect to get far if you are playing ranked. Core necro as much as i hate to admit it is much better than core rev by long shot. Now when you get to the elite specs it flips Glint rev is much better than reaper atm. Honestly reaper needs boon steal with its power damage to make it that brawler Boon stealing + blighters boons would be <3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brujeria.7536 Posted February 13, 2018 Share Posted February 13, 2018 I have to agree with most points here. What i cant agree with is your point "Corporate". A company wants to earn money, and resources are limited, sure and fair points. However, its a completly different thing how you invest these resources. In the recent patches they tried to fix/alter/change Reaper in general, what was the summary of all this? Reaper sucks in PvP, Reaper sucks in PvE. Too little to late, they dedicated resources to fix a problem, but the problem IS STILL THERE. In the last patch they basicly refindes the biggest core of Mesmer, new animations, skill changes, core gameplay changes, etc. etc. Now Mesmer is even stronger then before. However: MESMER WAS FINE ALL ALONG. It had a solid spot in PvP, WvW and also PvE. Multiple solid builds and gameplay patterns, that only got powerecreeped up more. Reaper on the other side is still, after all their effort, gutted and useless. Core necro is in a similar bad spot, its slow, clunky, horrible long cooldowns and boring skills, lacking both effects and numbers compared to everything else in this game. Core Necro vs the power creep of lets say eles, thieves and all other classes feels like a battle between tetris and counter strike - its just not on the same level. Yet every patch the power creeps gets worse, classes that already have a number of reasonable and valid builds get buffed to even more (looking at ele, engineer, warrior) While classes that are FAR worth in every gamemode get nothing. In my opinion this has nothing to do with effort/ressources or that "Corporate" Scapegoat you tried to use as a last ditch effort to saveyour/mine/our fanboisim. This is just a very narrowminded, looking at classes in a vaccum instead of using resources as they fit. Scourges get nerfed and nerfed and nerfed for no real reason at all, scourge wasnt OP before, it NEVER was. This is just he pinnacle of powercreep, every class does more effects, faster, with lower cooldown, boons spilled like candy, recovery alike; scourge was in a place to shake things up. You cant just spill boons like an idiot or bath in damage all the time or you got gutted. Positioning did matter, for the first time ever in PvP. Iif PvP in GW2 ever had a chance of becoming good it died with these nerfs; going the other direction, more roles, more diversity, niches and strenghts for the elite specs would have saved the game, with the current system you can only do so much: Boons, Healing/recovery/Tank, Mobility and damage (power or condi) This are barely enough factors to make a good PvP system with 3 classes or so. we have 9 classes, with 2 Especs each, the only FOTM here is the class that does most of these aspects the best. I mean look at all the recent stuff they have done, new traits / reworked traits, 80% of them suck or dont make sense, Reaper "rework" that didnt fix any issues, the nerfs for no reason, the sheer amount of power creep other classes got. If they have the resources to rework the mesmer class, they should invest these resources in classes that NEED HELP, instead of POWERCREEPING classes that are already meta in every game aspect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kybraga.7103 Posted February 14, 2018 Share Posted February 14, 2018 Goodness, Lily. Your statement is definitely felt to the core of my heart and, hopefully, that of the ArenaNet Developers'. You speak for the voices of a minority culture within Guild Wars 2's profession-choice. ~~Although, Necromancer was not my first choice, it is certainly my favourite.~~ Necromancer has always been that class I could hop back to if I ever had a bad day and could gasp at such a unique experience- better than that of a new storyline or a new heart found in a map. Heck, even that of making a new character. I can say as someone who has played for as long as the game has come out, and then some, I believe Necromancer is the specialization, profession if you will, that was fun. Saddening news it is, Necromancer is a former shadow of what it used to be back in the "Good Ol' Days." I miss the times when people would actually appreciate a Necromancer fight and not cry after losing to it or something; I miss the times of Terrormancer, Minionmancer (Kinda.), Power DS, and oh-so-many more. The additional factors of whether it will profit their business over the community to give Necromancer love is an unjustifiable thing to think of, it is disgusting at best! Surely ArenaNet will realize how great of a community they have and how lucky they are but until then, let's hope for the best. **Thank you, Lily, may your undauntable admiration keep us strong, and hopefully you, yourself, strong.** Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fixit.7189 Posted February 14, 2018 Share Posted February 14, 2018 I find it depressing that PvE scourge keeps getting nerfed due to PvP complaints. Do they even test these changes in PvE, or just ship it out with no consideration what so ever? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crinn.7864 Posted February 14, 2018 Share Posted February 14, 2018 > @"Dezember.1295" said: > > @"Vanlong.1627" said: > > I think the devs don't boost the damage because necromancers are "the guys who never die". Which is why they "can't" give them more damage. > > ^^^^^^^ This. No profession in the entire game has the survivability that the necromancer does. Only in PvE In PvP it's reversed. A Reaper in using a Paladin's Amulet is significantly squishier and easier to kill than a Warrior using a Berzerker Amulet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squallaus.8321 Posted February 14, 2018 Share Posted February 14, 2018 Very passionate post by lily. I haven't really seen a high DPS necromancer in fractals for a couple of months now. I feel condi reaper with rune of thorns is 'ok' but not that good either. Given the nerf to LF sustain, it feels like the reaper can't dps, can't tank, can't support. Scourge support build i quite like but not the dps versions. Dps scourge, like the reaper version, is 'ok' but seem to be low most of the time compared to other classes. Necromancer in general is just in a sad state atm. I think most people that are experienced with the game will agree with this sentiment atm. On another note i think anet should get 1 or 2 prominent players for each profession and ask them for their feedback and a summary of the community's feedback in general. Particularly for major patches and long term goals for the balance of each profession. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nimon.7840 Posted February 14, 2018 Share Posted February 14, 2018 > @"Crinn.7864" said: > > @"Dezember.1295" said: > > > @"Vanlong.1627" said: > > > I think the devs don't boost the damage because necromancers are "the guys who never die". Which is why they "can't" give them more damage. > > > > ^^^^^^^ This. No profession in the entire game has the survivability that the necromancer does. > > Only in PvE > > In PvP it's reversed. A Reaper in using a Paladin's Amulet is significantly squishier and easier to kill than a Warrior using a Berzerker Amulet. > > Exactly this. Reaper, or better to say necro, has the lowest survivability of all classes in pvp modes. And for open world pve it doesnt matter how much survivability you have, cause there is no challenging content. We did dragonstand naked on one lane. Sure ther have been some ppl around with gear. But most of us just had a weapon in hands. And we still got it in almost same time like other lanes did Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZDragon.3046 Posted February 14, 2018 Share Posted February 14, 2018 > @"Crinn.7864" said: > > @"Dezember.1295" said: > > > @"Vanlong.1627" said: > > > I think the devs don't boost the damage because necromancers are "the guys who never die". Which is why they "can't" give them more damage. > > > > ^^^^^^^ This. No profession in the entire game has the survivability that the necromancer does. > > Only in PvE > > In PvP it's reversed. A Reaper in using a Paladin's Amulet is significantly squishier and easier to kill than a Warrior using a Berzerker Amulet. > > This is the kind of thing i have an issue with ^ To make it worse a warrior using paladins ammy will still hit like a truck where as a reaper would be hitting like a wet noodle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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