Bring Back 5 Man!!!

[shadowpass.4236]

People will actually come back to the game if you let them play with their friends.

[phalaris.5134]

I will can SECOND that. The main idea was sPvP as in structured Player vs Player. At this stage nothing is really structured, rather randomised. Most games are more a hit and miss. AFK, QQing, the Aggravator and Yeller, I know it all, and many characters more.

 

We had it in place for a reason, however players took advantage of matchmaking (horror in season 1 & 2, legendary player grouping up with low level players on their alternative accounts) and ruined for everyone the pleasure of 5vs5 in future seasons.

 

No idea how they can balance all perks of current pvp issues, including class stacking, matchmaking etc?!?

[cloudsareyum.8120]

^ If I can play ranked with my friends (3 of us all wanted to play pvp the same time- but it was like.... we had to either queue up separate or choose to abandon one person) we would be happier and im sure people would play more

 

IMO what with the afks, bots, FTP not being able to communicate etc, it's already unbalanced and casual. At least let us have fun with our friends!

[BeLZedaR.4790]

It’s not even a vocal minority anymore it’s a vocal 1 person who thinks they’d be rank 1 if only not for the matchmaking rng and getting carried by comms vs pugs LUL.

There is no reason for 5 man to exist in ranked ladder, its goal is to measure personal contribution to your team winning. You can play with your friends 24/7 in unr and ATs.

[cloudsareyum.8120]

> @"BeLZedaR.4790" said:

> It’s not even a vocal minority anymore it’s a vocal 1 person who thinks they’d be rank 1 if only not for the matchmaking rng and getting carried by comms vs pugs LUL.

> There is no reason for 5 man to exist in ranked ladder, its goal is to measure personal contribution to your team winning. You can play with your friends 24/7 in unr and ATs.

 

well, what about 3 man?

And honestly if they cared about balance they would let the free to play use team chat. is pvp not casual here?

nice david/leigh eddings refrence btw :D

[Silv.9207]

Make the players able to play with they're friends will make the game more balanced and grant players to make a strategy and play different classes and builds in viable ways.

There's diferent ways to make that balanced also for who play alone or with few friends.

The MM can use the win/lose and rank of the higher of the team only, that will make people unable to play in lowers and farm killing noobs.

The MM can chose premade first and try to don't make premades fight against full pugs but at least against 3+2 or 4+1 teams.

Improving the LFG system and suggesting to players to use it should be a big chance to make players do teams and play with players at the same level, making a strategy and finding players that don't go afk at the first problem.

There can be a increased reward rate for teams based on how much you are, making players interested to do teams instead of play alone as casuals, even increasing the reward by up to 50% if that will make people play as a team instead of go solo in a Team Based Game.

 

There's a large amount of things that ANet can do to make players do teams promoting the game in a more full team way to play.

 

If there will be a lot of full teams in sPvP the game will be more balanced and there will be lesser afkers and ragequitters, lesser players that play "naked", that go in the match only for the fun of see they're team lose, and more.

That can also be used to improve the game and make players unable to stack the OP class of the moment blocking the log in option for that X character on the player that want to swap before the match start. There's different games that do similar things and they're not big as GW2.

 

The Solo/DuoQ is one of the first things that runed GW2 sPvP and made it totally unbalanced and unbalaceable.

No one can play his faorite class in the way he want because can't make a strategy, there's a large amount of builds that are strong but need a teamwork to be played and then no one can use them because no one can make a team to play.

 

"Force" or grant higher rewards to players to make them play as a Team will highly improve the game, the Quality of Life, reduce the flame that is making players stay away from spvp and spvp forum, will increas the buld diversity by a lot and grant players to play with they're friends, increasing the sPvP community by a large amount.

 

Make players play as a team and everything will go better in few time.

[pah.4931]

Here's what they NEED to do:

 

1. Make ranked queue 5-man pre-made teams ONLY. You pick your team at the start of the season (allowed 1 sub, so 6 people on the team). This should be very rewarding to compete in.

 

2. Make solo queue (unranked) more rewarding; i.e., give players pips and chests. This is where most people will play (like battlegrounds in WoW). It's a grind for rewards... rewarding players for time spent + performance.

 

3. Add more game modes / maps to unranked so that they aren't all conquest.

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

**Bringing back 5 man que is the only thing that can save the ranked spvp game mode at this point. The match manipulation has become so casual that the only way to allow us legitimate players a way to avoid it, is to allow us to create 5 man teams again. This way we can prevent mole throws from joining our teams.**

 

**Some players will argue against this but the players who argue against this are the players who still believe their bad matches are largely contributed from bad algorithm behavior when the truth is that most ridiculously bad matches are due to match manipulation.**

 

**I can also say that I'd rather lose to a team of 5 players on voice chat who were playing legitimately than lose to players who were cheating and playing alts to throw and win trade while on my team. If a player chooses not to socialize and form a 5 man team of his own, that is his own choice in risk to play as a solo que but his chosen risk should not prevent more competitive players from being able to 5 man que up and block the win trading.**

 

~ This is the only way Arenanet.

[Milan.9035]

For this kind of game mode it should be ONLY be 5v5 with a team leaderboard. But unfortunately there is not enough people for that kind of game mode. I think they need to do 2v2 or 3v3 deathmatch.

 

But for now we got AT and solo ranked.

 

So no i dont think 5v5 ranked would work, its too late for that.

[Jasonbdj.4021]

There is really not enough interest to have 5v5 mode ranked.

 

Really bad for pvp if they allowed groups of 5 into the current system as it will surely die.

 

I can see it now - 2x bunker firebrand 3x scourge for an example, this surely will be the death of ranked pvp we have now.

 

There already is a 5v5 mode anyways, maybe they can make it to be more often than usual?

[Jelle.7856]

> @"Milan.9035" said:

> For this kind of game mode it should be ONLY be 5v5 with a team leaderboard. But unfortunately there is not enough people for that kind of game mode. I think they need to do 2v2 or 3v3 deathmatch.

>

> But for now we got AT and solo ranked.

>

> So no i dont think 5v5 ranked would work, its too late for that.

 

It says on the wiki they are planning 2v2

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

Completely disagree with that. The mind frame that: "There aren't enough people to run 5 man teams" is the exact same mind frame that brought us to the free swinging casual match manipulation era to begin with. That mind frame and the decisions made from it are directly responsible for so many people leaving spvp. I think everyone "including Arenanet" would be quite surprised at how many 5 man teams would begin to appear if they re-enabled 5 man ranked ques.

 

When they first went solo/duo only, it was during a different era. People weren't aware of what was going to happen next. At the time they were focused on: "I DUN WANT 2 FIGHT TEH PREMADEZ" which yes, is annoying in itself but no where near as match or game mode breaking as having people throwing the match on your team, every other match that you run if you are plat 1 or higher, not even close. Now that people have seen how much cheating has happened since solo/duo only, most of the ones who voted "yes" for solo/duo only would gladly have the chance to form 5 man teams, even if PUGed, to be able to block out mole throw alts on their team's side.

 

It wouldn't be any harder to PUG a group for ranked conquest than it would for fractals. Don't encourage the idea that it would be.

[ReaverKane.7598]

From my point of view and experience, getting rid of team ranked coupled with the abismal balance in the first few seasons of pvp, was the driving engine towards severely reducing the player base in pvp.

@"BeLZedaR.4790" the reason is that Arena Net instead of using metrics and reason, used player opinion and a poll to decide to get rid of team ranked queues.

Unlike a lot of us that voted against it and warned of the repercussions, Arena Net didn't have the foresight to realize those in time. And by the time they tried to remedy their error (via AT's) it was already too late, and the population had already been reduced to a point that the Matchmaking algorithm can't function properly outside peak hours.

And that will only snowball to more and more people having frustrating experiences due to stretched MMR intervals teaming them with severely lower MMR players, which in turn substantially defeats the "win by your own prowess" argument, since the game is unable to provide you with a proper contest.

[Eddbopkins.2630]

A 3 man q instead of a 2 man be nice....if we absolutely cant have 5 man. 3 man in a 5v5 team based be better then the 2 man.

[ReaverKane.7598]

> @"Eddbopkins.2630" said:

> A 3 man q instead of a 2 man be nice....if we absolutely cant have 5 man. 3 man in a 5v5 team based be better then the 2 man.

 

You know what's funny? From what i can remember back when there were team ranked, the majority of premades were 3 man.

Arena Net, sadly operates within it's own void, instead of learning from the best (LoL, DotA, etc) they keep to their own closed off view of balance and PvP.

Back when Arena Net decided to end Team queues, Riot (League of Legends) was adding them back in force after concluding that removing them was a failed experiment.

Sadly Arena Net, as a company has a few major problems:

- They have way too big knee-jerk reactions to pvp complaints;

- They don't look outward and try to learn from other more experienced games;

- They never admit a mistake and back-down from their decisions.

 

So we're unlikely to ever see proper team content back in PvP, or actual improvements to the game mode. because improving it would mean rolling back on several decisions they have committed to (balance schedule, how they split skills, inertia to reworking skills, ranked team queues, draft pick for classes, etc)

[Vieux P.1238]

to OP... no!

[Jasonbdj.4021]

You already got unranked (I believed) for fun/training and Tournaments for better rewards than pipe collecting....

 

Not enough people that are interested to allow groups of 5 for the match making and would annoy a lot of solo players vs well organised overpower builds.... (system already failed in past reason why they removed it)

 

If there is an interest increases for the Tournaments with more players enters reaching its maximum slots etc, maybe they would extend pvp such as 5 vs 5 ranked etc.

[Mr Godlike.6098]

Yes bring 5 man ques that nobody will play, spending half day in que to fight bunch solo-q guys...literally you guys either you don't remember how ranked looked like before season 5 or trolling. We had that already and it didn't worked!

[Lilyanna.9361]

> @"pah.4931" said:

> Here's what they NEED to do:

>

> 1. Make ranked queue 5-man pre-made teams ONLY. You pick your team at the start of the season (allowed 1 sub, so 6 people on the team). This should be very rewarding to compete in.

>

> 2. Make solo queue (unranked) more rewarding; i.e., give players pips and chests. This is where most people will play (like battlegrounds in WoW). It's a grind for rewards... rewarding players for time spent + performance.

>

> 3. Add more game modes / maps to unranked so that they aren't all conquest.

 

I actually like this idea better. For those who want teams, give them ranked and higher rewards like increased gold generation, better mats to sell off, more of the shards etc.

 

Unranked players just get the original chests and what not as normal, but nothing else besides that. I'd really play PvP if the buds if they had this system.

 

Oi pah, can you like post this in like a ticket and send it off to Anet. Or maybe send this idea to Ben? Idc who, just someone that can do this.

[MachineManXX.9746]

Only if it were pre-made 5 vs pre-made 5. Random vs pre-made is horrible and A-net already learned from that mistake.

[SaltyDogs.9073]

> @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said:

> **Bringing back 5 man que is the only thing that can save the ranked spvp game mode at this point. The match manipulation has become so casual that the only way to allow us legitimate players a way to avoid it, is to allow us to create 5 man teams again. This way we can prevent mole throws from joining our teams.**

>

> **Some players will argue against this but the players who argue against this are the players who still believe their bad matches are largely contributed from bad algorithm behavior when the truth is that most ridiculously bad matches are due to match manipulation.**

>

> **I can also say that I'd rather lose to a team of 5 players on voice chat who were playing legitimately than lose to players who were cheating and playing alts to throw and win trade while on my team. If a player chooses not to socialize and form a 5 man team of his own, that is his own choice in risk to play as a solo que but his chosen risk should not prevent more competitive players from being able to 5 man que up and block the win trading.**

>

> ~ This is the only way Arenanet.

 

You know, they can still cheat/hack even if they queued as a team of 5. I've seen it before in unranked.

[Jasonbdj.4021]

> @"MachineManXX.9746" said:

> Only if it were pre-made 5 vs pre-made 5. Random vs pre-made is horrible and A-net already learned from that mistake.

 

Only different then and now is that we will have to face 5x scourge pre-made :/

[pah.4931]

> @"Lilyanna.9361" said:

> > @"pah.4931" said:

> > Here's what they NEED to do:

> >

> > 1. Make ranked queue 5-man pre-made teams ONLY. You pick your team at the start of the season (allowed 1 sub, so 6 people on the team). This should be very rewarding to compete in.

> >

> > 2. Make solo queue (unranked) more rewarding; i.e., give players pips and chests. This is where most people will play (like battlegrounds in WoW). It's a grind for rewards... rewarding players for time spent + performance.

> >

> > 3. Add more game modes / maps to unranked so that they aren't all conquest.

>

> I actually like this idea better. For those who want teams, give them ranked and higher rewards like increased gold generation, better mats to sell off, more of the shards etc.

>

> Unranked players just get the original chests and what not as normal, but nothing else besides that. I'd really play PvP if the buds if they had this system.

>

> Oi pah, can you like post this in like a ticket and send it off to Anet. Or maybe send this idea to Ben? Idc who, just someone that can do this.

 

Ha! I am writing up a thesis on "How to Fix" pvp to post here that will contain most of this. I wish they had the desire/resources to devote to fixing a lot of PvP issues. But I feel like that ship has sailed. Maybe I'm wrong.

[Aden.9306]

For the health of this game. we need two queues:

 

1: Solo Queue - With profession based MMR locked, meaning no profession system.

The main reason for this is you want to create a good entry/solo experience for newcomers, solo players and players who have options when friends aren't online. Plus it's equally unhealthy for the game to have a outlet where great players can sometimes form super teams an curb-stomp noobs. Especially in Unranked Arena of all places. So I cannot stress this enough we need a direct solo queue.

 

 

2: Mixed Queue - However, I think they should take note of the WvW restructuring plan! Allow players to register themselves to a team roster of five people, and only those five people can queue with each other to climb their team's score. Meaning, if two members of your team are online you can queue together. Then if another member logs on then you can 3 man, and with more or less. This game needs a outlet for players to group up an play together. Especially to retain more established players; where playing with friends is all they have left in this game. Veteran players are arguably super important cause the game takes a hit in losing quality matches over time. I was trying to come up with something to allow friends to play with each other while having restrictions and have team leader boards.

 

 

Maybe you can alternate these two formats every other season, or run them concurrently with Mixed Queue being heavily rewarded. Cause with this two week break between seasons, I just see burnout ahead. Also, I would go as far to say groups queuing together discourages cheating, since it's easier to throw a game than win a game. Instead of sabotaging people, they would be likely help contribute to there team or more likely that a three-four man in discord can pick up the dead weight from pugs/ match-manipulators.

 

 

Cause here's a metric for you Arena-net or more specifically Ben & Cal every player that I talk to whether sliver, gold, plat one, plat two, plat three, legendary. We all complain about how bad the pugs are, so I say let your players be happy. People who play together play longer, harder, and better together. It builds pvp communities; not manages whats left. It teaches players to improve since information to better oneself get spread throughout the player base.

[BadMed.3846]

> @"shadowpass.4236" said:

> People will actually come back to the game if you let them play with their friends.

 

Thanks, but no thanks. Go play tourney if you're serious 5 man. Ranked is fine as is.