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Warrost.4895

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> @"Curunen.8729" said:

> Signet of Inspiration exists and is not half bad if building around chaotic persistence.

>

> Sure I'd rather use a cheap alternative to writ of masterful speed and have one utility slot back, but I don't think travelers are mandatory as in the past.

 

You could also run focus off hand, but nobody is. Except maybe a few nostalgia bears. :smiley:

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> @"Arlette.9684" said:

> > @"Curunen.8729" said:

> > Signet of Inspiration exists and is not half bad if building around chaotic persistence.

> >

> > Sure I'd rather use a cheap alternative to writ of masterful speed and have one utility slot back, but I don't think travelers are mandatory as in the past.

>

> You could also run focus off hand, but nobody is. Except maybe a few nostalgia bears. :smiley:

 

Focus is a handicap if you get caught in a bad situation. I mean it's useable but not threatening either in offence or aiding in survival.

 

SoI while not ideal (I would rather take MoD, SoIllusions or SoM), isn't much of a handicap. Sure in a duel it's useless, but in roaming I find it perfectly useable.

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> @"ArmageddonAsh.6430" said:

> > @"Jace al Thor.6745" said:

> > I am running Chrono. It pairs well with what I’m trying to accomplish

>

> Chrono. The passive 25% movement speed helps a lot. The rest of us, either we are slow or we go travelers :(

>

>

 

I can’t help Chrono is superior :P

But Mirage has speed you just have to run sword and dodge all the time which is rather pointless.

 

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> @"Jace al Thor.6745" said:

> I can’t help Chrono is superior :P

> But Mirage has speed you just have to run sword and dodge all the time which is rather pointless.

 

I dont see why they just dont get rid of all the crappy 25% movement traits, skills and everything. Make everyone have 25% movement speed and then adjust swiftness and such. There is just such a HUGE difference between base movement and 25% movement speed that its just beyond stupid at this point :/

 

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> @"ArmageddonAsh.6430" said:

> > @"Jace al Thor.6745" said:

> > I can’t help Chrono is superior :P

> > But Mirage has speed you just have to run sword and dodge all the time which is rather pointless.

>

> I dont see why they just dont get rid of all the crappy 25% movement traits, skills and everything. Make everyone have 25% movement speed and then adjust swiftness and such. There is just such a HUGE difference between base movement and 25% movement speed that its just beyond stupid at this point :/

>

 

Either get rid of altogether and make it just swiftness(would kill Mesmer OOC mobility but what’s new) or make it base. Even if you use blink, sword ambush, and jaunt to chase someone if you catch them you’ve on CD for half you skills and it’s pointless. Chrono has a fighting chance but unless you can immob or stun them they can get away( the issue there is the amount of passive condi cleanse, stun breaks, and immunities in the game).

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> @"Jace al Thor.6745" said:

> > @"Arlette.9684" said:

> > > @"Jace al Thor.6745" said:

> > > @"Arlette.9684"

> > > Stats, food and weapon/sigils. Staff is a must and I think sigil of energy to be important but I might even change that. So many options.

> >

> > I agree staff is a MUST, so much utility and awesomeness. I’m currently exploring the staff trait for chaos armor and jaunt into chaos storm potential to rack up real high protection while making the most out of illusion’s defense or w/e the redesigned trait is named. I gotta say it makes even glassy builds quite tanky.

>

> I’m currently running Durability runes for the 20% boon duration and might add in some more not sure yet but it makes maintaining protection upkeep easy. I’ve thought about running Null Field to provide another chaos field but I don’t think it’s worth it. Currently my build let’s me get good might stacks and alacrity.

> I can maintain 16-18 stacks of might easily and can spike up to 25 stacks which makes for quite the interesting Swordsman attack. Having 58% damage reduction(I’m thinking I’ll try a damage reduction food tonight and have 68% reduction or possibly adding Scrapper runes for an additional 7%) makes life a dream when fighting 1vX. It was so funny because last night I was able to tank a 2v6 against a Scourge, soul beast, mirage, Druid, Spellbreaker and FB with nothing but a d/P theif to essentially spike down the rangers. It was fun, but I was on the edge of my seat having to time condi clears and shatters just right.

 

Hey I just reread your comment, I was lost in the sauce the first time I read it and only caught the first few lines. Would you mind, PMing me a build. I’d love to get down with you in one of the guild halls and do some brainstorming and testing. I’m off starting tomorrow night, all the way till Tuesday. Hit me up.

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> @"Jace al Thor.6745" said:

> Either get rid of altogether and make it just swiftness(would kill Mesmer OOC mobility but what’s new) or make it base. Even if you use blink, sword ambush, and jaunt to chase someone if you catch them you’ve on CD for half you skills and it’s pointless. Chrono has a fighting chance but unless you can immob or stun them they can get away( the issue there is the amount of passive condi cleanse, stun breaks, and immunities in the game).

 

Even with 25% movement, with such limited access to ways to STOP them in terms of Chill, Cripple, Immob Mesmer will struggle to hold anyone down, just getting to them requires use of long cool down abilities and when you do get to them, they have their mobility skills active. Even with Travelers, i dont waste my time with any Warrior, Thief, Engineer or anyone else that tries to run. I could possibly catch Necros or Guardians but really thats about it.

 

The movement speed in this game makes no sense, you HSOULDN'T have to build to have good movement speed (outside teleports and other moving skills) im talking specifically running. You shouldnt need to build for that not to be as slow as a snail :/

 

 

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> @"Arlette.9684" said:

> > @"Jace al Thor.6745" said:

> > > @"Arlette.9684" said:

> > > > @"Jace al Thor.6745" said:

> > > > @"Arlette.9684"

> > > > Stats, food and weapon/sigils. Staff is a must and I think sigil of energy to be important but I might even change that. So many options.

> > >

> > > I agree staff is a MUST, so much utility and awesomeness. I’m currently exploring the staff trait for chaos armor and jaunt into chaos storm potential to rack up real high protection while making the most out of illusion’s defense or w/e the redesigned trait is named. I gotta say it makes even glassy builds quite tanky.

> >

> > I’m currently running Durability runes for the 20% boon duration and might add in some more not sure yet but it makes maintaining protection upkeep easy. I’ve thought about running Null Field to provide another chaos field but I don’t think it’s worth it. Currently my build let’s me get good might stacks and alacrity.

> > I can maintain 16-18 stacks of might easily and can spike up to 25 stacks which makes for quite the interesting Swordsman attack. Having 58% damage reduction(I’m thinking I’ll try a damage reduction food tonight and have 68% reduction or possibly adding Scrapper runes for an additional 7%) makes life a dream when fighting 1vX. It was so funny because last night I was able to tank a 2v6 against a Scourge, soul beast, mirage, Druid, Spellbreaker and FB with nothing but a d/P theif to essentially spike down the rangers. It was fun, but I was on the edge of my seat having to time condi clears and shatters just right.

>

> Hey I just reread your comment, I was lost in the sauce the first time I read it and only caught the first few lines. Would you mind, PMing me a build. I’d love to get down with you in one of the guild halls and do some brainstorming and testing. I’m off starting tomorrow night, all the way till Tuesday. Hit me up.

 

Haha you gotta watch the sauce it’ll come back and get you.

But yeah I’ll be on a bit later and I’ll copy everything down and send you a build. I’m assuming you’re NA? If not that would suck XD

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> @"Jace al Thor.6745" said:

> > @"Arlette.9684" said:

> > > @"Jace al Thor.6745" said:

> > > > @"Arlette.9684" said:

> > > > > @"Jace al Thor.6745" said:

> > > > > @"Arlette.9684"

> > > > > Stats, food and weapon/sigils. Staff is a must and I think sigil of energy to be important but I might even change that. So many options.

> > > >

> > > > I agree staff is a MUST, so much utility and awesomeness. I’m currently exploring the staff trait for chaos armor and jaunt into chaos storm potential to rack up real high protection while making the most out of illusion’s defense or w/e the redesigned trait is named. I gotta say it makes even glassy builds quite tanky.

> > >

> > > I’m currently running Durability runes for the 20% boon duration and might add in some more not sure yet but it makes maintaining protection upkeep easy. I’ve thought about running Null Field to provide another chaos field but I don’t think it’s worth it. Currently my build let’s me get good might stacks and alacrity.

> > > I can maintain 16-18 stacks of might easily and can spike up to 25 stacks which makes for quite the interesting Swordsman attack. Having 58% damage reduction(I’m thinking I’ll try a damage reduction food tonight and have 68% reduction or possibly adding Scrapper runes for an additional 7%) makes life a dream when fighting 1vX. It was so funny because last night I was able to tank a 2v6 against a Scourge, soul beast, mirage, Druid, Spellbreaker and FB with nothing but a d/P theif to essentially spike down the rangers. It was fun, but I was on the edge of my seat having to time condi clears and shatters just right.

> >

> > Hey I just reread your comment, I was lost in the sauce the first time I read it and only caught the first few lines. Would you mind, PMing me a build. I’d love to get down with you in one of the guild halls and do some brainstorming and testing. I’m off starting tomorrow night, all the way till Tuesday. Hit me up.

>

> Haha you gotta watch the sauce it’ll come back and get you.

> But yeah I’ll be on a bit later and I’ll copy everything down and send you a build. I’m assuming you’re NA? If not that would suck XD

 

I am, I’ll take a look after I get back from work.

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> @"Jace al Thor.6745" said:

> @"ArmageddonAsh.6430"

> It’ll get to the point were movement speed is dropped in favor of mounts as much as I dislike the idea. We’ll be riding mounts into battle and casting phantasms from the back of gryphons.

 

The scary thing is this could become reality. I'm positive Anet will find some way to put mounts in wvw at some point in the future.

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> @"Curunen.8729" said:

> > @"Jace al Thor.6745" said:

> > @"ArmageddonAsh.6430"

> > It’ll get to the point were movement speed is dropped in favor of mounts as much as I dislike the idea. We’ll be riding mounts into battle and casting phantasms from the back of gryphons.

>

> The scary thing is this could become reality. I'm positive Anet will find some way to put mounts in wvw at some point in the future.

 

Which is a waste of resources IMO. Mounts in general are(sorry PvE’ers but that time could have been out to fixing the game). The amount of time the had teams working on them could have went towards doing the phantasm rework but on a scale of multiple classes, Rev arguably needing one the most out of the current classes.

 

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> @"Jace al Thor.6745" said:

> > @"Curunen.8729" said:

> > > @"Jace al Thor.6745" said:

> > > @"ArmageddonAsh.6430"

> > > It’ll get to the point were movement speed is dropped in favor of mounts as much as I dislike the idea. We’ll be riding mounts into battle and casting phantasms from the back of gryphons.

> >

> > The scary thing is this could become reality. I'm positive Anet will find some way to put mounts in wvw at some point in the future.

>

> Which is a waste of resources IMO. Mounts in general are(sorry PvE’ers but that time could have been out to fixing the game). The amount of time the had teams working on them could have went towards doing the phantasm rework but on a scale of multiple classes, Rev arguably needing one the most out of the current classes.

>

 

Oh definitely, I don't want them. But I'd be very surprised if it didn't happen at some point in the lifetime of this game - more opportunity for selling mount skins etc to people.

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> @"Jace al Thor.6745" said:

> @"ArmageddonAsh.6430"

> It’ll get to the point were movement speed is dropped in favor of mounts as much as I dislike the idea. We’ll be riding mounts into battle and casting phantasms from the back of gryphons.

 

Yep, i fully expect them to add mounts. Gliding was just the start :/

 

> @"Curunen.8729" said:

> The scary thing is this could become reality. I'm positive Anet will find some way to put mounts in wvw at some point in the future.

 

Of course they will, anything to force WvW players into PvE :/

 

 

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> @"Jace al Thor.6745" said:

> > @"ArmageddonAsh.6430" said:

> > > @"Jace al Thor.6745" said:

>the issue there is the amount of passive condi cleanse, stun breaks, and immunities in the game).

 

This is probably the most important issue facing PvP and to a lesser extent WvW. The game feels like too many classes have too easy aegis, stability, and cleansing/stun breaks. It's resulted in a lot of really unsatisfying moments where one person presses a button and now I can't do anything at all to them. Other games get the balance right, with active defenses and active attacks. Landing a stun or move on someone is an exercise in mind games and positioning for something like tera. GW2 seems focused on active attacks and passive or semi-passive (press button, gain long duration pulsing aegis/stability/etc) defensive effects. Landing a stun or move on someone in GW2 feels like it's just waiting for the buff to expire while trying to survive their unpunishable assault.

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> @"atlashugged.7642" said:

> This is probably the most important issue facing PvP and to a lesser extent WvW. The game feels like too many classes have too easy aegis, stability, and cleansing/stun breaks. It's resulted in a lot of really unsatisfying moments where one person presses a button and now I can't do anything at all to them. Other games get the balance right, with active defenses and active attacks. Landing a stun or move on someone is an exercise in mind games and positioning for something like tera. GW2 seems focused on active attacks and passive or semi-passive (press button, gain long duration pulsing aegis/stability/etc) defensive effects. Landing a stun or move on someone in GW2 feels like it's just waiting for the buff to expire while trying to survive their unpunishable assault.

 

You have weapons like Hammer for Warrior, its badly designed in every way. It has WAY too much access to wide ranging AoE meaning you just have to use it NEAR someone and it work. Then you get these sort of "control" weapons which is fine but then you add in all that damage, i have been hit for like 3-4k from the AUTO attack alone. It just becomes mindlessly press everything because you are rewarded for mindlessly pressing everything. Its reward, reward, reward. The other issue is, it doesnt matter if you miss, it really doesnt as the cool downs on the stuns and interrupts especially on Warrior are RIDICULOUSLY low and it just feeds into the press everything mentality because, why does it matter if that big attack missed? its going to be ready to use again in a few seconds anyway. So press everything on cool down.

 

You have passive procs happening all the time, you got passive healing happening. The "balance" has become around playing the same way - press everything you can and rely on passive procs to save you. Then you have invuls and blocks which are just too much, especially on Warrior! it is out of control on that class and it is SO clear that they NEED it to be that poorly designed and balanced.

 

I think every Invul needs a total rework. Its fine if you are inful to damage, the issue comes when you are still able to deal out damage without taking any punishment for it. Take Distoration as i think a good example. Its got limited use, Its duration is dependent on other circumstances (clones) You will always want at least 2 clones out minimum to use it otherwise its duration is just not worth the cool down but you can use it early if you suddenly get burst, so its duration is shorter which is good. Then you get the likes of Warrior with their active and passive use that allow them to continue mindlessly bashing away at buttons. It should be for them, more like the Engineer they go invul they cant take damage but they cant deal damage either. You need to be SACRIFICING something to get that benefit and simply put, too many are not sacrificing anything.

 

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> @"ArmageddonAsh.6430" said:

> > @"atlashugged.7642" said:

> I think every Invul needs a total rework. Its fine if you are inful to damage, the issue comes when you are still able to deal out damage without taking any punishment for it. Take Distoration as i think a good example. Its got limited use, Its duration is dependent on other circumstances (clones) You will always want at least 2 clones out minimum to use it otherwise its duration is just not worth the cool down but you can use it early if you suddenly get burst, so its duration is shorter which is good. Then you get the likes of Warrior with their active and passive use that allow them to continue mindlessly bashing away at buttons. It should be for them, more like the Engineer they go invul they cant take damage but they cant deal damage either. You need to be SACRIFICING something to get that benefit and simply put, too many are not sacrificing anything.

 

Yeah, a lot of games have low cooldown evasive/blocking moves. Across many genres. But the key thing those games do differently is that those evasive/blocking moves don't do much if any damage while under their effect. Something like aegis, stability, or resistance, a buff that you apply which gives you some conditional immunity for a time afterwards, during which you can still deal damage is quite rare. In GW2, it's a basic feature of nearly every class, and I think that's a fundamental issue that should be looked at in the future.

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> @"atlashugged.7642" said:

> Yeah, a lot of games have low cooldown evasive/blocking moves. Across many genres. But the key thing those games do differently is that those evasive/blocking moves don't do much if any damage while under their effect. Something like aegis, stability, or resistance, a buff that you apply which gives you some conditional immunity for a time afterwards, during which you can still deal damage is quite rare. In GW2, it's a basic feature of nearly every class, and I think that's a fundamental issue that should be looked at in the future.

 

Exactly and while things like Resistance and Aegis have counters. Things like Death blossom spamming or invuls and immunties are simply too strong. If you are immune to damage. Then you should be doing no damage. Something that they could have done is make such things lik invul to be damage REDUCTION not flat out removal of damage.

 

It is something that Warrior in particular has an issue with, too much defense that even when they go full zerk they can still rival bunker builds for sustain but have zerk levels of damage, then add in with ALL the blocks and invuls the passive healing they get, something i personally would have done is make if if you have an invul, block up ANY and all healing you get is reduced by 50%, its too easy for the likes of Warrior to passively recover too much health while blocking damage, its okay syaing "unblockable" attacks but not everyone has such easy access to them :(

 

 

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One thing that needs to be mentioned in this discussion about overpowered defenses is that the mesmer class is one of the offenders too. We have distortion and now mirage cloak, both of which allow you to safely deal damage while being largely immune to damage or control yourself. I am certainly biased here, but I like these better, if only because they aren't something you precast. You still have to use them in reaction to the enemy, rather than just applying a passive buff.

 

But if anet ever looks at the annoying defensive aspects of gw2, mesmer should not escape that evaluation.

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> @"atlashugged.7642" said:

> One thing that needs to be mentioned in this discussion about overpowered defenses is that the mesmer class is one of the offenders too. We have distortion and now mirage cloak, both of which allow you to safely deal damage while being largely immune to damage or control yourself. I am certainly biased here, but I like these better, if only because they aren't something you precast. You still have to use them in reaction to the enemy, rather than just applying a passive buff.

>

> But if anet ever looks at the annoying defensive aspects of gw2, mesmer should not escape that evaluation.

 

Distortion on its on isn’t a problem, it’s our oh fuck button, shatters all clones, and is on a long cd. It’s when you combine it with mirage cloak, or with double shield block(granted shield doesn’t actually damage) that it becomes an issue. Bunker Chrono pre-nerf was a problem more(imo) due to the constant blur sharing so not only was the Mesmer immune but so were teammates. Grated that didn’t help capturing points. But what you have to consider too is Mesmer isn’t inherently tanky, yes we’ve got distortion and it’s heavily relied upon, but for a class that works best in a melee situation we don’t have the inherent tanking abilities of say a warrior. So we do need somethings to boost us in that regard.

They missed an opportunity with mirage to make f4 into a shatter that creates mirrors rather than just having a trait do it.

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It's strange - on one hand I see the argument for powercreep in the game and can agree a better game is one with more clearly defined counterplay and clear consequences of actions in combat, but...

 

...I like GW2's combat as it is now.

 

Yes it's spammy, yes it's powercrept in offence and in damage negation, lack of clear visual tells, chaotic animations and in general a bit of a mess... but it is a very fun mess. There is a flow similar to fast paced fps or tps, helped by low cooldowns and so called ability spam. But I would rather this than say waiting 1 minute for a weapon skill to cooldown, being severely punished for missing something with a 3s cast time, and have the game play out in a slow methodical pace like chess.

 

Tbh I don't like mmos - never really played any apart from gw2. The gameplay in most look so boring. Always preferred more action games like tps, fps or action rpg where combat is faster and not cooldown based. I mean I hated the tab targeting in gw2 - last game I played with tab targeting before that was KotOR 2! But something with soft lock targeting and low ability cooldowns (eg mass effect 3 multiplayer) is more enjoyable. Also with dodge being some kind of luxury in gw2, where I consider it to be taken for granted (sure it's hard damage negation rather than simple positional movement, but still...).

 

Call me casual if you like (though I know the unrecorded sick plays I have achieved in the past both in pvp and wvw, so I don't care), but I like everything being more immediate and flowing - short cooldowns, short cast times,, thematic gameplay effects and visuals, and more action. I still believe there is a lot of skill involved, but it is not as apparent as it would be if everything was methodical and precise like chess. It's messy but organic, requiring more abstract thought process beyond thinking of how to counter one ability with another ability.

 

Bit weird, but just my 2p worth.

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> @"Curunen.8729" said:

>short cooldowns

I favor short cooldowns. I favor interesting cooldown shortening mechanics (like reducing the cd of diversion by charging mantra of distraction, alacrity, chronoshatter, or the old Pledge). But there is also a place for long cooldown "high risk high reward" moves to spice things up. They should be the minority, but they should be present.

>short cast times

I disagree here, GW2 feels incredibly sluggish to me compared to other games (like tera), because so many skills have a half second or 3/4 second cast time.

 

While I'm airing grievances, the boon/condition system has standardized everything at the noticeable cost of interesting and thematic abilities. Why bother to have interesting blocking mechanics, when you can just slap aegis on something instead? A whole host of interesting GW1 mesmer skills got absorbed into the confusion condition and lost a lot of their unique fun while presenting a unique challenge to balance for PvE and PvP.

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> @"Curunen.8729" said:

> It's strange - on one hand I see the argument for powercreep in the game and can agree a better game is one with more clearly defined counterplay and clear consequences of actions in combat, but...

>

> ...I like GW2's combat as it is now.

>

> Yes it's spammy, yes it's powercrept in offence and in damage negation, lack of clear visual tells, chaotic animations and in general a bit of a mess... but it is a very fun mess. There is a flow similar to fast paced fps or tps, helped by low cooldowns and so called ability spam. But I would rather this than say waiting 1 minute for a weapon skill to cooldown, being severely punished for missing something with a 3s cast time, and have the game play out in a slow methodical pace like chess.

>

> Tbh I don't like mmos - never really played any apart from gw2. The gameplay in most look so boring. Always preferred more action games like tps, fps or action rpg where combat is faster and not cooldown based. I mean I hated the tab targeting in gw2 - last game I played with tab targeting before that was KotOR 2! But something with soft lock targeting and low ability cooldowns (eg mass effect 3 multiplayer) is more enjoyable. Also with dodge being some kind of luxury in gw2, where I consider it to be taken for granted (sure it's hard damage negation rather than simple positional movement, but still...).

>

> Call me casual if you like (though I know the unrecorded sick plays I have achieved in the past both in pvp and wvw, so I don't care), but I like everything being more immediate and flowing - short cooldowns, short cast times,, thematic gameplay effects and visuals, and more action. I still believe there is a lot of skill involved, but it is not as apparent as it would be if everything was methodical and precise like chess. It's messy but organic, requiring more abstract thought process beyond thinking of how to counter one ability with another ability.

>

> Bit weird, but just my 2p worth.

 

I agree. I mean, I'm not saying there isn't room for improvement or that other games don't do some things better, but all in all I really enjoy the feel of GW2's combat system and consider it one of the game's more notable strengths. Of course there's plenty of work that needs to be done toward balancing, but balance is always a work in progress, never complete.

 

I don't think every move necessarily needs an obvious telegraph to allow the player to react and avoid it. What GW2 has is a combination of moves, some telegraphed, some not. The result is that you employ different strategies to survive than simply watching for telegraphs and countering them. You do plenty of that, but other moves are more about anticipating timing and proper positioning.

 

A few examples:

 

Fighting enemies that drop nasty circles at your feet, especially the fire circles from the bounty bosses which have no tell at all because they generate passively via unstable magic. If you stay in motion constantly, you can avoid the circles. But if you get caught standing still when the circle spawns, you're going to take a lot of damage.

 

Fighting bosses that have powerful, obviously telegraphed special attacks, but quick melee attacks with very little tell. The chak lobber HP in Auric Basin is a perfect example. The three special attacks it uses have obvious telegraphs and may be predicted based upon your position in relation to the boss (too close and he does the shake, too far and he does the charge). But his standard melee attack is fairly quick and difficult to react to. So the strategy is to take advantage of this boss's huge hitbox, kite just out of his range while hitting him and try not to get too close where you'll induce the shake attack.

 

It's the combination of timing, positioning, anticipation, and watching and reacting to telegraphs as well as the speed of play that makes the whole thing enjoyable. I don't know that making everything a telegraphed move is necessarily an improvement.

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http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vhAQNAseRnsIC1qhlpBGqBEgilUjq+Zr2r9MKaipjcAKhAA-jpxHQB+7EAowDBAAeAAaY/hrVGIgHBAA

 

Just sharing a build that I just made. It works perfectly well with all the Phantasm spam giving you tons of damage, sustain and condi cleanse through Inspiration. Think of it as a more team-oriented version of the Power Staff build that just recently popped out. Been playing this build lots on low platinum, and I've been climbing slowly by playing it one game per day.

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