Tyson.5160 Posted February 25, 2018 Share Posted February 25, 2018 > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > @"Astralporing.1957" said: > > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > > @"Tyson.5160" said: > > > > > > > > No, I’m just saying that pvp and wvw should have unique transforming Armor one for pvp and a different one for wvw. So competing in wvw and ranked pvp is no effort? > > > > > > What?! No, I'm simply saying "if you don't want to raid, you don't get Envoy armor". Just like if you don't want to WvW you don't get Sublime Mistforged. It's called freedom of choice. > > Sublime Mistforged is not a unique transforming armor skin. It's also definitely not on the level of envoy armor. There's no equality here. > > Also, what about the SPvP set? > > > > > > That's up to the pvp people to ask. As for the rest - Sunblime Mistforged is most definitely an unique set, with unique visuals. I'm not quite clear on what you mean by "transforming" as technically each and every armor skin can be transmuted into another, provided that another is unlocked on your account and of the same weight. So I'm going to assume you're talking about "stat-selectable". In which case - WvW has a road to its own legendary armor. Unlock Sublime, craft legendary, transmog the legendary to Sublime. There you go. Takes effort, all in WvW. Just like Envoy takes effort, all in raids. So the transforming Armor he is referring to is how the envoy has a normal state and a combat state, also the Armor has a draw effect. Frankly I don’t want the pvp and wvw Armor to be the Envoy Armor ( as I think it’s ugly as all hell) and I think that it deserves its own different sets of transforming Armor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feanor.2358 Posted February 25, 2018 Share Posted February 25, 2018 > @"Tyson.5160" said: > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > @"Astralporing.1957" said: > > > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > > > @"Tyson.5160" said: > > > > > > > > > > No, I’m just saying that pvp and wvw should have unique transforming Armor one for pvp and a different one for wvw. So competing in wvw and ranked pvp is no effort? > > > > > > > > What?! No, I'm simply saying "if you don't want to raid, you don't get Envoy armor". Just like if you don't want to WvW you don't get Sublime Mistforged. It's called freedom of choice. > > > Sublime Mistforged is not a unique transforming armor skin. It's also definitely not on the level of envoy armor. There's no equality here. > > > Also, what about the SPvP set? > > > > > > > > > > That's up to the pvp people to ask. As for the rest - Sunblime Mistforged is most definitely an unique set, with unique visuals. I'm not quite clear on what you mean by "transforming" as technically each and every armor skin can be transmuted into another, provided that another is unlocked on your account and of the same weight. So I'm going to assume you're talking about "stat-selectable". In which case - WvW has a road to its own legendary armor. Unlock Sublime, craft legendary, transmog the legendary to Sublime. There you go. Takes effort, all in WvW. Just like Envoy takes effort, all in raids. > > So the transforming Armor he is referring to is how the envoy has a normal state and a combat state, also the Armor has a draw effect. Frankly I don’t want the pvp and wvw Armor to be the Envoy Armor ( as I think it’s ugly as all hell) and I think that it deserves its own different sets of transforming Armor. Ah, the combat mode... Totally forgot that. Nah, I don't think they'll be doing that mistake again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyson.5160 Posted February 25, 2018 Share Posted February 25, 2018 > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > @"Tyson.5160" said: > > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > > @"Astralporing.1957" said: > > > > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > > > > @"Tyson.5160" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > No, I’m just saying that pvp and wvw should have unique transforming Armor one for pvp and a different one for wvw. So competing in wvw and ranked pvp is no effort? > > > > > > > > > > What?! No, I'm simply saying "if you don't want to raid, you don't get Envoy armor". Just like if you don't want to WvW you don't get Sublime Mistforged. It's called freedom of choice. > > > > Sublime Mistforged is not a unique transforming armor skin. It's also definitely not on the level of envoy armor. There's no equality here. > > > > Also, what about the SPvP set? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That's up to the pvp people to ask. As for the rest - Sunblime Mistforged is most definitely an unique set, with unique visuals. I'm not quite clear on what you mean by "transforming" as technically each and every armor skin can be transmuted into another, provided that another is unlocked on your account and of the same weight. So I'm going to assume you're talking about "stat-selectable". In which case - WvW has a road to its own legendary armor. Unlock Sublime, craft legendary, transmog the legendary to Sublime. There you go. Takes effort, all in WvW. Just like Envoy takes effort, all in raids. > > > > So the transforming Armor he is referring to is how the envoy has a normal state and a combat state, also the Armor has a draw effect. Frankly I don’t want the pvp and wvw Armor to be the Envoy Armor ( as I think it’s ugly as all hell) and I think that it deserves its own different sets of transforming Armor. > > Ah, the combat mode... Totally forgot that. Nah, I don't think they'll be doing that mistake again. Probably not, but adding a draw effect and possibly some other effects would be nice. The devs also advised that they will be using that transforming tech like Shining Blade more. I imagine if pvp and wvw were given more of this treatment there wouldn’t be as much complaining as there would be a choice, much like the fractal, pvp and wvw legendary backpacks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ohoni.6057 Posted February 25, 2018 Author Share Posted February 25, 2018 > @"Feanor.2358" said: > Or it could be that you're wrong and there are actual game design reasons behind it? Just a thought. ;) Always possible in the abstract, but not in this case. >So what? The "ez mode raid" crowd used to use "functionality" as their argument. Turns out they just want the reward without the effort. I've never argued "functionality," it's always been about the skins for me. And I'm willing to put forth the effort, just not in hard difficulty raids. I don't enjoy those. >What?! No, I'm simply saying "if you don't want to raid, you don't get Envoy armor". And I'm saying "why not?" >Just like if you don't want to WvW you don't get Sublime Mistforged. It's called freedom of choice. No, both of those represent a lack of choice. If you want the Envoy skin you have no choice but to raid. If you want the Sublime Mistforged then you have no choice but to WvW. Freedom of choice would be that you could do *either* activity and earn the skin that you wanted. >Ah, the combat mode... Totally forgot that. Nah, I don't think they'll be doing that mistake again. I think it was a cool idea. The only flaw in the Envoy set is that a lot of the individual pieces had really ugly design to them, so people weren't happy with the finished state. That would have remained true whether or not the armor transformed though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrostDraco.8306 Posted February 25, 2018 Share Posted February 25, 2018 > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > I thought that [this video on Game Maker's Toolkit]( "https://youtube.com/watch?v=NInNVEHj_G4") was really insightful in the benefits of having alternate game modes available for difficult content. I think that perhaps any of the "hard mode is good enough for everyone" players (and developers) might benefit from watching this. I really wish that more games employed this open-minded philosophy. You are making the assumption that these things are 'hard mode', which is entirely fallacious at best. If there is only 1 mode, it is called normal mode, regardless of your ability to finish it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrostDraco.8306 Posted February 25, 2018 Share Posted February 25, 2018 > @"Adenin.5973" said: > > @"ReaverKane.7598" said: > > > @"Adenin.5973" said: > > > > @"Vinceman.4572" said: > > > > > @"Adenin.5973" said: > > > > >You're completely fine that almost no one plays raids. > > > > > > > > This statement is complete nonsense. > > > > > > > > As I already wrote: The raid lfg is one of the most active ones in GW2. You have zero clue about raids and the playerbase. > > > > > > > > > > The reason the raid lfg is active is because of raid sellers and the raid groups that need far longer than other 5 man groups to fill up, especially because they require certain specific roles, with experienced players. Like the t4 cm listings in the lfg, they're there because other groups get filled within seconds and disappear. As I said before in one of my replies, the current amount of groups at a certain moment is no indication about how many ppl actually play the content. > > > > > > It only shows how many grps haven't found enough ppl. You should've figured that out for yourself. > > > > > > Also pls, we've discussed now enough about the never ending same things, I am really getting tired. You say no, I say yes and yet none of us has official numbers. So lets just say there's not any basis we can agree upon with this topic and therefore there's no need to discuss any details. > > > > Don't generalize. It has a good turnaround of groups. And honestly i never had to wait that long to fill a group, even when i need 5+ people to complete. > > The lfg shows only those grps that haven't found enough ppl. That's a mere fact You can't look at the raid lfg that has grps in it and say that many ppl are playing raids. Actually the more ppl are waiting for grp member in the lfg, the less people can actually start playing. And no, there's also not a clear connection between x amount of ppl playing the content and Y amount of group listings. > The amount of grp listings is very dependent on how many different roles a grp needs. The upper "limit" of the amount of different grps listed at the same time for a certain type of content is determined by how many incompatible grp compositions you can come up with for that content, so that each grp in the lfg needs to start searching individually. The amount of ppl playing the content is not what fills the lfg. That's really a misconception of how group listings come about in the first place. > > Content that demands no specific roles/classes/specs has almost no grp listings up because grps get filled immediately. In theory (not in practice) there would be no reason for such content, why more than one grp listing would be up at the same time, except another already nearly full grp needs an additional player. That's also why almost no grps are listed for dungeons and yet if you list a grp it gets filled in <1 min. Because when ANY grp is listed for a dungeon run there's no reason why anyone would list another grp (with said exception of nearly full grps). > Again, only in theory, in practice you've exp run or lvl80 only etc > > With raids, where you have a specific meta composition and also for different raids different roles etc, there is a reason why there would be far more than just one grp listing in the lfg. The reason is simply because if you have a grp the chances are super small that you fit perfectly to another grp that is already listed. So you list your grp also, which makes the lfg full. > > The one thing the raid lfg tells you is, that there are still enough ppl to get several different grp listings in, listings that can't be merged, which is the reason why they were put up in the first place. > > Also, don't talk about how you shouldn't generalize, when someone uses logic to describe how an ingame system works and then make a generalization yourself, baked up with a subjective individual experience. Your logic is almost as backwards as your reasoning, but I'd like to point out one thing in particular. >The reason is simply because if you have a grp the chances are super small that you fit perfectly to another grp that is already listed. So you list your grp also, which makes the lfg full. This is where being VERSATILE comes in. Most competent raiders don't play one role or class, and are able to fill up a lot of these. THAT is why there are generally less groups on LFG. The veteran raider won't complain, they will just fill in the slot needed and get it done. You make the chances superl arge by being a versatile competent player. And if you don't understand that, then you probably aren't one of those players. I can play literally every meta build except condi rev to a decent degree, which means i don't have to sit around and wait for a group that 'fits me perfectly'. I'm not there for someone to pamper my feelings or make friends, I'm there to raid. Which is what I enjoy doing. And because of that attitude, I have little problems in the way of raiding. And even then there is the option to kick, or just leave. Deal with the issue like a rational adult, and i assure you raiding will be E.Z. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ohoni.6057 Posted February 25, 2018 Author Share Posted February 25, 2018 > @"FrostDraco.8306" said: > > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > I thought that [this video on Game Maker's Toolkit]( "https://youtube.com/watch?v=NInNVEHj_G4") was really insightful in the benefits of having alternate game modes available for difficult content. I think that perhaps any of the "hard mode is good enough for everyone" players (and developers) might benefit from watching this. I really wish that more games employed this open-minded philosophy. > > You are making the assumption that these things are 'hard mode', which is entirely fallacious at best. If there is only 1 mode, it is called normal mode, regardless of your ability to finish it. Did you watch the video? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zealex.9410 Posted February 26, 2018 Share Posted February 26, 2018 > @"Astralporing.1957" said: > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > @"Tyson.5160" said: > > > > > > No, I’m just saying that pvp and wvw should have unique transforming Armor one for pvp and a different one for wvw. So competing in wvw and ranked pvp is no effort? > > > > What?! No, I'm simply saying "if you don't want to raid, you don't get Envoy armor". Just like if you don't want to WvW you don't get Sublime Mistforged. It's called freedom of choice. > Sublime Mistforged is not a unique transforming armor skin. It's also definitely not on the level of envoy armor. > Additionally, again, WvW and SPvP legendaries have no unique skin whatsoever. I'm pretty sure that the discussion would not have been as intense if all 3 modes had been treated equally and the legendary envoy armor had the same skin as the t2 precurson version. And yet for some reason i'm pretty sure that if devs did it that way, the outrage of the raid community to that idea would have been at least comparable to what is happening now. > > Ye because the legendary raid armor was hyped up. The pvp abd wvw armor wasnt and wasnt even asked all that much it was an afterthough and a qol adition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adenin.5973 Posted February 26, 2018 Share Posted February 26, 2018 > @"FrostDraco.8306" said: > > @"Adenin.5973" said: > > > @"ReaverKane.7598" said: > > > > @"Adenin.5973" said: > > > > > @"Vinceman.4572" said: > > > > > > @"Adenin.5973" said: > > > > > >You're completely fine that almost no one plays raids. > > > > > > > > > > This statement is complete nonsense. > > > > > > > > > > As I already wrote: The raid lfg is one of the most active ones in GW2. You have zero clue about raids and the playerbase. > > > > > > > > > > > > > The reason the raid lfg is active is because of raid sellers and the raid groups that need far longer than other 5 man groups to fill up, especially because they require certain specific roles, with experienced players. Like the t4 cm listings in the lfg, they're there because other groups get filled within seconds and disappear. As I said before in one of my replies, the current amount of groups at a certain moment is no indication about how many ppl actually play the content. > > > > > > > > It only shows how many grps haven't found enough ppl. You should've figured that out for yourself. > > > > > > > > Also pls, we've discussed now enough about the never ending same things, I am really getting tired. You say no, I say yes and yet none of us has official numbers. So lets just say there's not any basis we can agree upon with this topic and therefore there's no need to discuss any details. > > > > > > Don't generalize. It has a good turnaround of groups. And honestly i never had to wait that long to fill a group, even when i need 5+ people to complete. > > > > The lfg shows only those grps that haven't found enough ppl. That's a mere fact You can't look at the raid lfg that has grps in it and say that many ppl are playing raids. Actually the more ppl are waiting for grp member in the lfg, the less people can actually start playing. And no, there's also not a clear connection between x amount of ppl playing the content and Y amount of group listings. > > The amount of grp listings is very dependent on how many different roles a grp needs. The upper "limit" of the amount of different grps listed at the same time for a certain type of content is determined by how many incompatible grp compositions you can come up with for that content, so that each grp in the lfg needs to start searching individually. The amount of ppl playing the content is not what fills the lfg. That's really a misconception of how group listings come about in the first place. > > > > Content that demands no specific roles/classes/specs has almost no grp listings up because grps get filled immediately. In theory (not in practice) there would be no reason for such content, why more than one grp listing would be up at the same time, except another already nearly full grp needs an additional player. That's also why almost no grps are listed for dungeons and yet if you list a grp it gets filled in <1 min. Because when ANY grp is listed for a dungeon run there's no reason why anyone would list another grp (with said exception of nearly full grps). > > Again, only in theory, in practice you've exp run or lvl80 only etc > > > > With raids, where you have a specific meta composition and also for different raids different roles etc, there is a reason why there would be far more than just one grp listing in the lfg. The reason is simply because if you have a grp the chances are super small that you fit perfectly to another grp that is already listed. So you list your grp also, which makes the lfg full. > > > > The one thing the raid lfg tells you is, that there are still enough ppl to get several different grp listings in, listings that can't be merged, which is the reason why they were put up in the first place. > > > > Also, don't talk about how you shouldn't generalize, when someone uses logic to describe how an ingame system works and then make a generalization yourself, baked up with a subjective individual experience. > > Your logic is almost as backwards as your reasoning, but I'd like to point out one thing in particular. > > >The reason is simply because if you have a grp the chances are super small that you fit perfectly to another grp that is already listed. So you list your grp also, which makes the lfg full. > > This is where being VERSATILE comes in. Most competent raiders don't play one role or class, and are able to fill up a lot of these. THAT is why there are generally less groups on LFG. The veteran raider won't complain, they will just fill in the slot needed and get it done. > > You make the chances superl arge by being a versatile competent player. And if you don't understand that, then you probably aren't one of those players. > > I can play literally every meta build except condi rev to a decent degree, which means i don't have to sit around and wait for a group that 'fits me perfectly'. I'm not there for someone to pamper my feelings or make friends, I'm there to raid. Which is what I enjoy doing. And because of that attitude, I have little problems in the way of raiding. And even then there is the option to kick, or just leave. > > Deal with the issue like a rational adult, and i assure you raiding will be E.Z. Wow, talking about elitism. And you're missing the entire point of the discussion. When we talk here about how to make raids played by more ppl and you tell me how a raider knows all classes, and has all the gear and right stats and plays full meta everywhere. We talk here about issues average GW2 players have with raids. No one said that uber elitist have problems with finding raid groups. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zealex.9410 Posted February 26, 2018 Share Posted February 26, 2018 Unlike the examples on the video this is an mmo and also this is but 1 part of the entire game. Having an easy mode or an "assist mode" for raids wont change how you view open world or fractals or pvp. This isnt like the easy mode in Soma or like assist mode in celest. An easy mode here wont define the entire game. Mmos have alot more too them for many diff groups of ppl. One can spend the whole game doing map comp while someone else can spend it solo capturing towers in wvw. An easy mode for raids wont affect those ppl. The guy who made the vid also gave great focus on "communication", the developer has be open and have communicate their intentions for this small part of the game. The value the experience over the accesibility and they are allowed to do so because raids arent the point of the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ohoni.6057 Posted February 26, 2018 Author Share Posted February 26, 2018 > @"zealex.9410" said: > Unlike the examples on the video this is an mmo and also this is but 1 part of the entire game. Having an easy mode or an "assist mode" for raids wont change how you view open world or fractals or pvp. True, and nobody said it would, but it would give me another activity that I could enjoy participating in within the game, would allow me to experience story content that enriches the rest of the game, and would provide me with skins that I could enjoy wearing in the other parts of the game. These are all undeniable benefits, the only discussion is around whether you want other players to have access to them. >This isnt like the easy mode in Soma or like assist mode in celest. An easy mode here wont define the entire game. No, but it does define that _portion_ of the game. Imagine GW2 as if it were a selection of five completely different Steam games (like a platformer, and a puzzle game, and a horror game, and so on), but one in which the story of each of those games was interlinked, and progress in one would open up opportunities in others, give you insight in the others, and allow you access to cool new gear that can be used in any of them. Saying that one of those games which is markedly harder than the rest wouldn't need an easy mode because you could "just play the others" would not satisfy players of those other games, who enjoyed them, but would enjoy them _more_ with access to the benefits offered in the harder game. >One can spend the whole game doing map comp while someone else can spend it solo capturing towers in wvw. An easy mode for raids wont affect those ppl. Maybe not, but it doesn't have to impact *everyone,* it just has to impact *enough* people to justify the effort. I think that there are plenty of people to meet that condition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zealex.9410 Posted February 26, 2018 Share Posted February 26, 2018 > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > True, and nobody said it would, but it would give me another activity that I could enjoy participating in within the game, would allow me to experience story content that enriches the rest of the game, and would provide me with skins that I could enjoy wearing in the other parts of the game. These are all undeniable benefits, the only discussion is around whether you want other players to have access to them. > No, wether the devs can sustain the quality of harder modes while also not taking longer to release them is an equally big part of the discussion. > > No, but it does define that _portion_ of the game. Imagine GW2 as if it were a selection of five completely different Steam games (like a platformer, and a puzzle game, and a horror game, and so on), but one in which the story of each of those games was interlinked, and progress in one would open up opportunities in others, give you insight in the others, and allow you access to cool new gear that can be used in any of them. Saying that one of those games which is markedly harder than the rest wouldn't need an easy mode because you could "just play the others" would not satisfy players of those other games, who enjoyed them, but would enjoy them _more_ with access to the benefits offered in the harder game. > What defines that portion of the game is its dificulty. The first the devs said is that this is meant to be dificult content and that it should be experienced as such. The only thing thats interlinked with the raids story and the rest of gw2 is that raids are part of gw2. Except the first wing every (argueably) the other wings are all completelly unrelated to the rest of the game (story wise). Also making examples likes "what if this was its own game? Then it would be justifiable to have modes" is irrelevant because this isnt a standalone title. This is some added content with a twist to please ppl that were asking for it. Sure argueably ppl would enjoy the other games more with these perks. But at what costs? In yor example each piece of content is sold seperatelly more sales mean more income means they can provide the best of both worlds. Meanwhile is gw2 im not quite sure that is the case. > > Maybe not, but it doesn't have to impact *everyone,* it just has to impact *enough* people to justify the effort. I think that there are plenty of people to meet that condition. For Arenanet it justifies the effort. They knew going into this that the 50,60,70% of this game wouldnt be doing the content the way they envisioned it. And that is fine because this is a diverse MMO and not everything is for everyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReaverKane.7598 Posted February 26, 2018 Share Posted February 26, 2018 > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > @"zealex.9410" said: > > Unlike the examples on the video this is an mmo and also this is but 1 part of the entire game. Having an easy mode or an "assist mode" for raids wont change how you view open world or fractals or pvp. > > True, and nobody said it would, but it would give me another activity that I could enjoy participating in within the game, would allow me to experience story content that enriches the rest of the game, and would provide me with skins that I could enjoy wearing in the other parts of the game. These are all undeniable benefits, the only discussion is around whether you want other players to have access to them. > > >This isnt like the easy mode in Soma or like assist mode in celest. An easy mode here wont define the entire game. > > No, but it does define that _portion_ of the game. Imagine GW2 as if it were a selection of five completely different Steam games (like a platformer, and a puzzle game, and a horror game, and so on), but one in which the story of each of those games was interlinked, and progress in one would open up opportunities in others, give you insight in the others, and allow you access to cool new gear that can be used in any of them. Saying that one of those games which is markedly harder than the rest wouldn't need an easy mode because you could "just play the others" would not satisfy players of those other games, who enjoyed them, but would enjoy them _more_ with access to the benefits offered in the harder game. > > >One can spend the whole game doing map comp while someone else can spend it solo capturing towers in wvw. An easy mode for raids wont affect those ppl. > > Maybe not, but it doesn't have to impact *everyone,* it just has to impact *enough* people to justify the effort. I think that there are plenty of people to meet that condition. See, there's a issue with arguments out of ignorance. There are already easy-mode raid encounters, several of them. Escort for example is perfect for people to get their first introduction to a lot of raid mechanics (no ressing, splitting into sub-groups, boss mechanics, etc.) also great for easy Li and unlocking the Mastery tracks and achievements. And yet it's easier than a lot of T4 Fractals, and can be completed with less than 10 guys (i think the least i did it was with 7, but if you struggle a bit you can probably do it with 5). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ohoni.6057 Posted February 26, 2018 Author Share Posted February 26, 2018 > @"zealex.9410" said: >No, wether the devs can sustain the quality of harder modes while also not taking longer to release them is an equally big part of the discussion. That's part of the "whether you want other players to have access to them" discussion. You value those things over more players having access to the mode and its benefits. >What defines that portion of the game is its dificulty. The first the devs said is that this is meant to be dificult content and that it should be experienced as such. I understand that you think this, but do you *also* recognize that there are other elements to the mode that are *not* about difficulty? Did you actually watch the video in the OP, because it addresses this specific point. Many people would say that Cuphead is "about" the difficulty of it, that if you don't enjoy that difficulty, there is no reason to play it. And while many players do enjoy that difficulty, do want to experience it, there *is* a lot more to that game, like a compelling art style, and gameplay content that could still engage many players at a lower difficulty setting. And if Cuphead was only a *part* of a much larger project, and players who did not play the "Cuphead" portion because it was "too hard," then they would be missing out on story elements and rewards that would enrich their enjoyment of the other parts of the game. I get that players like you enjoy the current difficulty of the raids, and I do not want that taken away. All I want is a mode that *other* players, who are *not* you, can enjoy *just as much.* >The only thing thats interlinked with the raids story and the rest of gw2 is that raids are part of gw2. Except the first wing every (argueably) the other wings are all completelly unrelated to the rest of the game (story wise). That's utter nonsense. The story of raid 1 led directly into the main plot of season 3. The two kept interlinking throughout. The story of Raid 2 linked directly up with Episode 3.6. The story of Raid 3 flows directly out of the PoF personal story, and there's no reason to believe it won't influence future content in the game. Even if the raid stories had not *directly* connected to the *personal* story, they were still a part of the fabric of the GW2 player experience, they are stories directly tied to the fate of Tyria. The only way that one could reasonably argue that the raid stories had *nothing* to do with players who didn't want to raid is if there was no story whatsoever, or if the story had absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with Tyrian lore, like it was a story pulled entirely from some other franchise. So long as it's an actual story that is a part of the metaverse the players exist in, it is relevant to ALL players of the game. > @"ReaverKane.7598" said: > There are already easy-mode raid encounters, several of them. There are some *encounters* in the raids that are easier than others. That has nothing to do with what is being talked about here. This is about having an easier *version* of *every* existing and future raid encounter. I'm not talking about "Do Sabetha if you want tricky, do escort if you want easy," I'm taking about "do easy mode Sebetha if you want easy," and maybe even "do hard mode escort if you want hard," if any players are interested in that sort of thing. The point is to allow easy mode players to experience the ENTIRE concept, not just portions of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zealex.9410 Posted February 27, 2018 Share Posted February 27, 2018 > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > @"zealex.9410" said: > >No, wether the devs can sustain the quality of harder modes while also not taking longer to release them is an equally big part of the discussion. > > That's part of the "whether you want other players to have access to them" discussion. You value those things over more players having access to the mode and its benefits. > > >What defines that portion of the game is its dificulty. The first the devs said is that this is meant to be dificult content and that it should be experienced as such. > > I understand that you think this, but do you *also* recognize that there are other elements to the mode that are *not* about difficulty? Did you actually watch the video in the OP, because it addresses this specific point. Many people would say that Cuphead is "about" the difficulty of it, that if you don't enjoy that difficulty, there is no reason to play it. And while many players do enjoy that difficulty, do want to experience it, there *is* a lot more to that game, like a compelling art style, and gameplay content that could still engage many players at a lower difficulty setting. And if Cuphead was only a *part* of a much larger project, and players who did not play the "Cuphead" portion because it was "too hard," then they would be missing out on story elements and rewards that would enrich their enjoyment of the other parts of the game. > > I get that players like you enjoy the current difficulty of the raids, and I do not want that taken away. All I want is a mode that *other* players, who are *not* you, can enjoy *just as much.* > Other parts of the raid like achievements, titles, gear and skins are there to further solidify the idea that this dificult content should be aproached as such by giving it exclusivity over them. In the case of Cuphead the creator of the video talks about how the devs poorly handled the whole dificulty mode thing. Again, u are compairing aples to oranges, u chose to see the points of the video talking about dificulty modes and to ignore the other parts about that vid. The developers of celest, darkest dungeon, cuphead all created these games with a vision. They understand that ppl wanted to play their game but the dificulty didnt allow them to do so and so they added the options for the players to create the experience that suits them. That is *NOT* the case with gw2. The game is not about raids *only*. Its made by a whole lot of diff pieces of content all for diff skill lvls and group sizes. The developers communicated that this game wont be entirelly accessible to anyone and that they should change the aproach they have depending on the content they want to do. > >The only thing thats interlinked with the raids story and the rest of gw2 is that raids are part of gw2. Except the first wing every (argueably) the other wings are all completelly unrelated to the rest of the game (story wise). > > That's utter nonsense. > > The story of raid 1 led directly into the main plot of season 3. The two kept interlinking throughout. The story of Raid 2 linked directly up with Episode 3.6. The story of Raid 3 flows directly out of the PoF personal story, and there's no reason to believe it won't influence future content in the game. > > Even if the raid stories had not *directly* connected to the *personal* story, they were still a part of the fabric of the GW2 player experience, they are stories directly tied to the fate of Tyria. The only way that one could reasonably argue that the raid stories had *nothing* to do with players who didn't want to raid is if there was no story whatsoever, or if the story had absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with Tyrian lore, like it was a story pulled entirely from some other franchise. So long as it's an actual story that is a part of the metaverse the players exist in, it is relevant to ALL players of the game. > Raid 2 has nothing to do with the events of lw. It introduced us to the eye and thats about it. We didnt even get any substantial lore about it in the wing it just stood there staring at us and neither was extra dialogue about it in the lw episode. Raid 3 came after pof and thats about it, i dont recall at the end if pof ny character being like "oh, to the underworld!!". They are strictly side stories that do not take away anything from the MAIN gw2 story. U can choose to believe that they do but that doesnt change the fact that thats not the case. > > @"ReaverKane.7598" said: > > There are already easy-mode raid encounters, several of them. > > There are some *encounters* in the raids that are easier than others. That has nothing to do with what is being talked about here. This is about having an easier *version* of *every* existing and future raid encounter. I'm not talking about "Do Sabetha if you want tricky, do escort if you want easy," I'm taking about "do easy mode Sebetha if you want easy," and maybe even "do hard mode escort if you want hard," if any players are interested in that sort of thing. The point is to allow easy mode players to experience the ENTIRE concept, not just portions of it. > > No easy and hard encounters have every right to be part of the discussion. Anet has chosen to balance dificulty by introducing bosses of varied dificulties that players can choose to do to learn the basics and then progress. Its a design choice and frankly it works. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrizzFreston.5290 Posted February 27, 2018 Share Posted February 27, 2018 > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > @"Lunateric.3708" said: > > If easy raids ever become a thing it will be with them giving no rewards, as in you won't ever get envoy armor outside beating raids on their intended difficulty. > > That would probably end up being a waste of developer resources, since most players would only do it once and never again. Fortunately, you don't get to dictate what they are and are not allowed to do. I think alot players play parts of GW2 once and never again. These are not automatically waste of developer resources. Lots of media is a one time thing and never again. If easy raids will ever become a thing, and if you had actually listened to that initial video you would have realised that no easy mode will have the same rewards as the intended game mode. An easy mode would be created just so that people would experience the story, enjoy the content at something more their own pace and any material/loot reward they get from that, whether they attach some cheap repeatable grindy reward to it or not, is entirely secondary. In fact, to make sure that neither the intended raid difficulty and a hypothethical easy mode wouldn't steal eachothers popularity is to give entirely different rewards to each of them. With two difficulty modes, you need to have differing rewards, or one or the other will end up as this "waste of developer resources" as you put it. If anything, this videos gave more reasons as to why games aren't designed with play how you want to the power absolute, than why games should be designed play how the player wants. You will never ever rewards outside of their intended designed path to obtain them. For example GW2 wants to have a vague idea of a living and breathing world, and as such there are designed rules as how this world works, and some of those are in place to make it so you can't just mess around and obtain everything. Part of the fun of a game, is that you are restricted to a set of artificial rules. If you want certain things you are going to have to do the intended tasks, because it's still an RPG, and the role you play in this world dictates what rewards you will obtain. If you're playing the merchant that stays in cities forever, you will never obtain a Caladbolg skin that requires you to defeat Mordremoth. This is also why they have began moving towards specific WvW and PvP rewards, rather than just copy pasting PvE rewards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ohoni.6057 Posted February 27, 2018 Author Share Posted February 27, 2018 > @"zealex.9410" said: >Other parts of the raid like achievements, titles, gear and skins are there to further solidify the idea that this dificult content should be aproached as such by giving it exclusivity over them. You are saying two things that have nothing to do with each other. "Difficult content" is in no way related to exclusivity. Some people like difficult content, some people like easier content, neither player is in any way "better" or "more valuable" or "more deserving" than the other. There is absolutely no need for more difficult content to have anything "exclusive" attached to it, just let people who enjoy it, enjoy it, no more, no less. >Again, u are compairing aples to oranges, u chose to see the points of the video talking about dificulty modes and to ignore the other parts about that vid. The developers of celest, darkest dungeon, cuphead all created these games with a vision. They understand that ppl wanted to play their game but the dificulty didnt allow them to do so and so they added the options for the players to create the experience that suits them. Right, and that's what I'm suggesting here. Perhaps an easier raid doesn't fit ANet's "vision" for what raids in GW2 should be, but plenty of players would appreciate the option anyway, and perhaps it would be best for the devs to give them that option. That raids are only a portion of the game only makes this MORE important, not less, because if it's a standalone element, then a player can simply choose to not participate, but if it's integrated into another work, then players who choose to not participate are missing out on elements that would enrich the *rest* of the game they *are* playing. Again, you can fairly argue that the difficulty of the existing raids are "not for everyone." but with the way the raids are currently designed, you *cannot,* for even one second, argue that the story content and rewards structures bundled into raiding are "not for everyone." >Raid 2 has nothing to do with the events of lw. It introduced us to the eye and thats about it. We didnt even get any substantial lore about it in the wing it just stood there staring at us and neither was extra dialogue about it in the lw episode. And yet still their interactions were connected. You can choose to ignore that, but you cannot make it not so. >Raid 3 came after pof and thats about it, i dont recall at the end if pof ny character being like "oh, to the underworld!!". Seriously? It was one of the most talked about missions on the forums for weeks after PoF launched. >They are strictly side stories that do not take away anything from the MAIN gw2 story. If you believe that to be true for how you experience then game, then that's fine. Just understand as a fact that there are other players who do not agree with that interpretation of what story "matters" to them. >No easy and hard encounters have every right to be part of the discussion. Anet has chosen to balance dificulty by introducing bosses of varied dificulties that players can choose to do to learn the basics and then progress. Its a design choice and frankly it works. It accomplishes some things, but not others. If the various easier raid encounters were actually "no different" than what I'm proposing, then you would have no reason to object to what I'm proposing. That you continue to object to my proposal indicates that you do understand that there is a distinction, you would just like to _perpetuate_ that distinction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ohoni.6057 Posted February 27, 2018 Author Share Posted February 27, 2018 > @"FrizzFreston.5290" said: > I think alot players play parts of GW2 once and never again. These are not automatically waste of developer resources. Lots of media is a one time thing and never again. True. It's entirely subjective. If the devs feel it would be worth their time, nobody's stopping them. It's my *personal* opinion that it would be of more value to make an easy mode that would give players good reason to repeat it than it would be to make an easy mode that players would have no reason to do more than once. Further, if it was an easy mode without access to raid rewards, then it would satisfy only half the problems with the current system, and the other half would have to be accounted for in some other manner. >In fact, to make sure that neither the intended raid difficulty and a hypothethical easy mode wouldn't steal eachothers popularity is to give entirely different rewards to each of them. With two difficulty modes, you need to have differing rewards, or one or the other will end up as this "waste of developer resources" as you put it. That would benefit almost no one. The result of that would be that the players who wanted the rewards that hard mode offers would still have no viable path to earning them, while the players who prefer hard mode would then be forced to grind in easy mode, which they would likely find very tedious, to earn those rewards. Plus, of course, the developers would need to waste additional time crafting two sets of rewards rather than one. Who benefits from any of that? >For example GW2 wants to have a vague idea of a living and breathing world, and as such there are designed rules as how this world works, and some of those are in place to make it so you can't just mess around and obtain everything. Um, have you played GW2? You can buy all sorts of crazy skins off the gem store. They hand out all sorts of crazy skins at random. All sorts of weapons drop as loot off of random monsters. GW2 has _some_ elements that try to present themselves as "realistic," but loot and reward mechanisms have never been one of them. There is nothing "less GW2 realistic" about having an easy mode that rewards the same stuff as the harder mode. >If you want certain things you are going to have to do the intended tasks, because it's still an RPG, and the role you play in this world dictates what rewards you will obtain. If you're playing the merchant that stays in cities forever, you will never obtain a Caladbolg skin that requires you to defeat Mordremoth. I think that is fine, so long as it all takes place within the same boundaries of skill. I believe raids in their current form extend beyond the average skill level of the game, the amount required to complete most of the content. Therefore, I believe that sets an unreasonably high barrier for the average player. I have Caladbolg from defeating Mordremoth, if Raiding rewards required that level of skill and commitment, and no more, then I would be satisfied with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zealex.9410 Posted February 27, 2018 Share Posted February 27, 2018 > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > @"zealex.9410" said: > >Other parts of the raid like achievements, titles, gear and skins are there to further solidify the idea that this dificult content should be aproached as such by giving it exclusivity over them. > > You are saying two things that have nothing to do with each other. "Difficult content" is in no way related to exclusivity. Some people like difficult content, some people like easier content, neither player is in any way "better" or "more valuable" or "more deserving" than the other. There is absolutely no need for more difficult content to have anything "exclusive" attached to it, just let people who enjoy it, enjoy it, no more, no less. > Exclusivity in rewards is good for every part of te game regardless of its dificulty. Dificult content makes its rewards more sought after. > >Again, u are compairing aples to oranges, u chose to see the points of the video talking about dificulty modes and to ignore the other parts about that vid. The developers of celest, darkest dungeon, cuphead all created these games with a vision. They understand that ppl wanted to play their game but the dificulty didnt allow them to do so and so they added the options for the players to create the experience that suits them. > > Right, and that's what I'm suggesting here. Perhaps an easier raid doesn't fit ANet's "vision" for what raids in GW2 should be, but plenty of players would appreciate the option anyway, and perhaps it would be best for the devs to give them that option. That raids are only a portion of the game only makes this MORE important, not less, because if it's a standalone element, then a player can simply choose to not participate, but if it's integrated into another work, then players who choose to not participate are missing out on elements that would enrich the *rest* of the game they *are* playing. > Im not argueing that ppl wouldnt apreciate it. Im argueing thay this aint blizzard. We get 2 days worth of content every 2-3 months and a raid took them 10-11 months. Surely ppl would love easy mode raids and if raids were marketed as the new hotness and the corner stone of the game then i would support opening that exp to the rest of the playerbase. But it isnt and so protecting the current exp for the playerbase that they were made for matters more. If ppl want to exp them so badly they might as well put in some more effort. > Again, you can fairly argue that the difficulty of the existing raids are "not for everyone." but with the way the raids are currently designed, you *cannot,* for even one second, argue that the story content and rewards structures bundled into raiding are "not for everyone." > I didnt argue that as well, all story and rewards are for everyone, wether they want them or not its up to them. > >Raid 2 has nothing to do with the events of lw. It introduced us to the eye and thats about it. We didnt even get any substantial lore about it in the wing it just stood there staring at us and neither was extra dialogue about it in the lw episode. > > And yet still their interactions were connected. You can choose to ignore that, but you cannot make it not so. > No they were fucking not. The eye in raid 2 stands there while in the lw it serves a completelly diff purpose. One that wasnt even explored in the raid. > >Raid 3 came after pof and thats about it, i dont recall at the end if pof ny character being like "oh, to the underworld!!". > > Seriously? It was one of the most talked about missions on the forums for weeks after PoF launched. > What was talked about during the release of w5 wasnt "oh this is clearly a continuation of the events in the pof story, how dare u lock it" it was " underworld behind raids REEEEE" even tho what we got was but a small slice of the uw and we also got to see the uw in the pof story. > >They are strictly side stories that do not take away anything from the MAIN gw2 story. > > If you believe that to be true for how you experience then game, then that's fine. Just understand as a fact that there are other players who do not agree with that interpretation of what story "matters" to them. > I believe that and it is the case. Ppl might not like that but it doesnt matter because they are actually, sidestories. > >No easy and hard encounters have every right to be part of the discussion. Anet has chosen to balance dificulty by introducing bosses of varied dificulties that players can choose to do to learn the basics and then progress. Its a design choice and frankly it works. > > It accomplishes some things, but not others. If the various easier raid encounters were actually "no different" than what I'm proposing, then you would have no reason to object to what I'm proposing. That you continue to object to my proposal indicates that you do understand that there is a distinction, you would just like to _perpetuate_ that distinction. No. That i continue to object indicates that this to some extend is already in the game. To an extend where it doesnt take up extra development time and it can acomplish the same exact thing. Get ppl into raiding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ohoni.6057 Posted February 27, 2018 Author Share Posted February 27, 2018 > @"zealex.9410" said: > Exclusivity in rewards is good for every part of te game regardless of its dificulty. Nope. >Dificult content makes its rewards more sought after. No it doesn't, it just means that less people who want them will have them. There's no value in having an item be "more desired." The value is in people who want the item being able to get it. The item does not care how many people want it, the item does not have feelings or ambitions. >If ppl want to exp them so badly they might as well put in some more effort. Just because people would enjoy an easier version of the raids does not mean that they could ever enjoy the current version. They are different experiences for different players. > I didnt argue that as well, all story and rewards are for everyone, wether they want them or not its up to them. Right, but the current problem is that plenty of people who want them have no interest in the hurdles that the current raiding structure puts in front of them. This is why there need to be alternatives, so that the gap of people who would enjoy *some* aspects of raiding but not enjoy the difficulty, would be able to enjoy those aspects without having to deal with the difficulty. ie, the entire point of this thread. >No they were kitten not. The eye in raid 2 stands there while in the lw it serves a completelly diff purpose. One that wasnt even explored in the raid. So it was purely coincidence that the concepts were reintroduced to the game within months of each other? Again, if you don't believe that the raid story matters or that non-raiders should care about them, that's fine, FOR YOU, but if other players feel that they would benefit from being able to experience that story, then you can say nothing useful about it. They don't have to share your opinion on the matter. >No. That i continue to object indicates that this to some extend is already in the game. To an extend where it doesnt take up extra development time and it can acomplish the same exact thing. Get ppl into raiding. That's not the goal though. The goal is to allow players of all difficulty-interest to be able to experience the *entire* raiding experience. That's the point of the video in the OP, that presenting half a game as a "baby mode" does not actually serve the people looking for a lower difficulty experience. You need to present the *entire* thing, just at a reduced difficulty level that they can enjoy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vinceman.4572 Posted February 27, 2018 Share Posted February 27, 2018 I don't see other players claiming those things. It's just Ohoni - every several months. So, I don't think it's worth to discuss things any further. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ohoni.6057 Posted February 27, 2018 Author Share Posted February 27, 2018 > @"Vinceman.4572" said: > I don't see other players claiming those things. It's just Ohoni - every several months. So, I don't think it's worth to discuss things any further. You need to be better paying attention then, there were several threads that popped up while I was taking a break from the boards. It's just I'm. . . argumentative, so when I start to participate, I tend to respond a lot, and other people on my side of things tend to quiet down. Don't mistake that for a lack of agreement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vinceman.4572 Posted February 27, 2018 Share Posted February 27, 2018 > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > @"Vinceman.4572" said: > > I don't see other players claiming those things. It's just Ohoni - every several months. So, I don't think it's worth to discuss things any further. > > You need to be better paying attention then, there were several threads that popped up while I was taking a break from the boards. It's just I'm. . . argumentative, so when I start to participate, I tend to respond a lot, and other people on my side of things tend to quiet down. Don't mistake that for a lack of agreement. Nah, I'm able to differentiate. I have nothing against easy modes as long as no raid & fractal ressources/developers are incorporated and no specific rewards given (no shards, no ascs things, no collection items etc. - just greens and blues + 1 rare per easy mode boss). I've read some of your posts - not all because they are too long and annoying to read - since months and yours are completely different because you want to have rewards quasi via login. That's not what the real respectable easy mode raid people want to achieve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ohoni.6057 Posted February 27, 2018 Author Share Posted February 27, 2018 > @"Vinceman.4572" said: > I have nothing against easy modes as long as no raid & fractal ressources/developers are incorporated and no specific rewards given (no shards, no ascs things, no collection items etc. - just greens and blues + 1 rare per easy mode boss). That only solves half the problem though. How then would players who don't raid get access to the weapons or armor skins that are currently locked behind raiding? If raiding can be "not for everyone's tastes," then there need to be other methods. As for who actually works on the projects, that's ANet's business, we don't know enough to micromanage them on that. >I've read some of your posts - not all because they are too long and annoying to read - since months and yours are completely different because you want to have rewards quasi via login. That has _never_ been my stance, it's only been the strawman argument people have applied to me. I have always been in favor of having to actually **work** to achieve these goals, putting in equivalent time and effort to existing methods, just opening up more _options_ for the specific gameplay mode you toil in. The basic argument I use is this, if a person wants a Ferrari, one way to do that is to go to medical school, learn to be a doctor, practice as a doctor for a few years, make a lot of money, and buy that Ferrari. *Another* way to do that is to go to plumbing school, which takes less time, learn to be a plumber, practice as a plumber for likely more years than the doctor took, but earn that money, and buy the Ferrari. *Another* way to do it would be to just work a low paying retail job, work diligently at it for many years, save up, wait for the price of that Ferrari to come down a bit, and eventually get one. The point is, there shouldn't be only *one* path to getting something you want, and if you don't enjoy that path then you only have the options a) do something even though you know you aren't enjoying it, or b) *never* get that thing you want. There should be multiple paths so that the odds are as high as can be reasonably managed that a player will be able to find a path that he enjoys pursuing that will arrive at the destination he has in mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrostDraco.8306 Posted February 27, 2018 Share Posted February 27, 2018 > @"Adenin.5973" said: > > @"FrostDraco.8306" said: > > > @"Adenin.5973" said: > > > > @"ReaverKane.7598" said: > > > > > @"Adenin.5973" said: > > > > > > @"Vinceman.4572" said: > > > > > > > @"Adenin.5973" said: > > > > > > >You're completely fine that almost no one plays raids. > > > > > > > > > > > > This statement is complete nonsense. > > > > > > > > > > > > As I already wrote: The raid lfg is one of the most active ones in GW2. You have zero clue about raids and the playerbase. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The reason the raid lfg is active is because of raid sellers and the raid groups that need far longer than other 5 man groups to fill up, especially because they require certain specific roles, with experienced players. Like the t4 cm listings in the lfg, they're there because other groups get filled within seconds and disappear. As I said before in one of my replies, the current amount of groups at a certain moment is no indication about how many ppl actually play the content. > > > > > > > > > > It only shows how many grps haven't found enough ppl. You should've figured that out for yourself. > > > > > > > > > > Also pls, we've discussed now enough about the never ending same things, I am really getting tired. You say no, I say yes and yet none of us has official numbers. So lets just say there's not any basis we can agree upon with this topic and therefore there's no need to discuss any details. > > > > > > > > Don't generalize. It has a good turnaround of groups. And honestly i never had to wait that long to fill a group, even when i need 5+ people to complete. > > > > > > The lfg shows only those grps that haven't found enough ppl. That's a mere fact You can't look at the raid lfg that has grps in it and say that many ppl are playing raids. Actually the more ppl are waiting for grp member in the lfg, the less people can actually start playing. And no, there's also not a clear connection between x amount of ppl playing the content and Y amount of group listings. > > > The amount of grp listings is very dependent on how many different roles a grp needs. The upper "limit" of the amount of different grps listed at the same time for a certain type of content is determined by how many incompatible grp compositions you can come up with for that content, so that each grp in the lfg needs to start searching individually. The amount of ppl playing the content is not what fills the lfg. That's really a misconception of how group listings come about in the first place. > > > > > > Content that demands no specific roles/classes/specs has almost no grp listings up because grps get filled immediately. In theory (not in practice) there would be no reason for such content, why more than one grp listing would be up at the same time, except another already nearly full grp needs an additional player. That's also why almost no grps are listed for dungeons and yet if you list a grp it gets filled in <1 min. Because when ANY grp is listed for a dungeon run there's no reason why anyone would list another grp (with said exception of nearly full grps). > > > Again, only in theory, in practice you've exp run or lvl80 only etc > > > > > > With raids, where you have a specific meta composition and also for different raids different roles etc, there is a reason why there would be far more than just one grp listing in the lfg. The reason is simply because if you have a grp the chances are super small that you fit perfectly to another grp that is already listed. So you list your grp also, which makes the lfg full. > > > > > > The one thing the raid lfg tells you is, that there are still enough ppl to get several different grp listings in, listings that can't be merged, which is the reason why they were put up in the first place. > > > > > > Also, don't talk about how you shouldn't generalize, when someone uses logic to describe how an ingame system works and then make a generalization yourself, baked up with a subjective individual experience. > > > > Your logic is almost as backwards as your reasoning, but I'd like to point out one thing in particular. > > > > >The reason is simply because if you have a grp the chances are super small that you fit perfectly to another grp that is already listed. So you list your grp also, which makes the lfg full. > > > > This is where being VERSATILE comes in. Most competent raiders don't play one role or class, and are able to fill up a lot of these. THAT is why there are generally less groups on LFG. The veteran raider won't complain, they will just fill in the slot needed and get it done. > > > > You make the chances superl arge by being a versatile competent player. And if you don't understand that, then you probably aren't one of those players. > > > > I can play literally every meta build except condi rev to a decent degree, which means i don't have to sit around and wait for a group that 'fits me perfectly'. I'm not there for someone to pamper my feelings or make friends, I'm there to raid. Which is what I enjoy doing. And because of that attitude, I have little problems in the way of raiding. And even then there is the option to kick, or just leave. > > > > Deal with the issue like a rational adult, and i assure you raiding will be E.Z. > > Wow, talking about elitism. > > And you're missing the entire point of the discussion. When we talk here about how to make raids played by more ppl and you tell me how a raider knows all classes, and has all the gear and right stats and plays full meta everywhere. > > We talk here about issues average GW2 players have with raids. No one said that uber elitist have problems with finding raid groups. So now being a versatile player makes you an uber elitist? What utter non-sense. I was talking about GOOD players, not ELITIST players, that know the game and want to get into raiding, or even mediocre players that want to learn. What you just showed to me is that you don't care about learning, you don't care about getting good, and you certainly don't care about working with your team to complete the content. There is no such thing as 'luck' in this game. You either have the skills to find a group and finish the content, or you don't. Everyone could always learn more and become better at socializing or even playing this game. Relying on the 'uber small chance to find the perfect group' is the type of fear mongering I despise because that's not how social interactions work, and certainly not how raiding works. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now